Sarah, Jane, and Matt debate the value of policy details in the primary.
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hello. Welcome to another observer, the weeds on the Box Pike S network. I met your glacis worker with Sarah Cliff and Jane Coastal, and we can talk a little bit about the twenty twenty field and particularly about the relationship of the twenty twenty field, to the weeds, not meant to the weeds podcast per se. But today the Spirit
your plane of Weena s- and I guess I guess, is loosely prompted by the fact that better work humped into the presidential race hopped up onto a counter. He lay counter them
is the twenty twond? Let it come to the table, a throwing his metaphorical Hatton, the ring
an immediate criticism that he talk was that he was a little vague
on policy in general that he had. I think so
was in the midst of sort of the reporting eye of the storm right. But, like an important part, I guess of the twenty four I marry is that whenever anybody gets in because they're not Bernie Sanders
They are pelted with a bunch of demands that they explicitly endorse the very unpopular aspects of Burmese Medicare for all bill. That Bernie himself does not ever talk about and then, when they die
they get, they bigger criticised and better did a real. I don't know why
exactly I kind of Weird Houdini ACT on this topic. I guess I think we want to talk more about
the about like the relationship between the TWAIN, twenty field and policy, but Edam Healthcare is always an interesting ones to look at
really anything through is, as always my view, and I think you know what you see-
it wasn't me immediately? He gets an, and there is the question of what is this guy think about a lot of things? What do they think about health care and ice
just kind of looking through, like what does he set about health care over the past few years and its really kind of it all over the place.
The main like a liberal like he's on talking out of propelling Obamacare, but in terms of what does Beethoven
We think this is important when we say he's all over the place
usually not all over the place where he's in a sort of
Euro coordinate Plain Occupy
a variety of his arm over the deed, different positions. You see, staked out by Democrats in health policy, so he's not like the guy, like you know that taxes, Republic, Henry sang then- and I appeal to people by repealing Beforeblacker Active Short like all
places there is a certain box of policies, but it's a box of policies that are becoming the gay, very defining part of the primary anything
is that so I think of it varies very interesting that now we're having a version of this conversation
earlier in our office, about even think it the contrast between candidate, like Beethoven, a candidate like Elizabeth Warrant. They think they are quite different, imminent. Actually that differ
in what they believe at the end of the day, but there quite different and like how they are approaching medium being
That said, Elizabeth Warren as running like by far the most policy, having
candidate. I have ever seen
this early in a race where there's just like constant white papers, there's like her childcare.
And there's a plan to have the government make generic drugs are planned to break up the big tech companies for like a policy podcast, it's like you could do constant episodes about the various different lives,
Warren plans have been rolled out and again it's its march.
We're so early in this primary,
so. On the one hand, you have a very policy heavy Canada like Warren, I think at the other end of the Spectre,
We have a very policy: the lights candidates. Out of you guys, will dispute my characterisation, but I see but bidders
policy light candidate, a guy you, like generally as in the mix of different democratic policies. But if you go to him
say you're not going to find certain white paper as you
Gonna find I don't really see like any sort of policy innovation happening from his campaign. They give you look at Warren Shoes, this new childcare plan. That really is unique policy issues.
Out Beethoven Healthcare thing. He ended up just endorsing a plan that somehow scraps of put out this Medicare for America plan that you can find an excellent explained or about for my colleague Dylan on vocs. So he is not someone who is coming up with his own new policy ideas and it would say at this early stage of the candidates, and I think it's it.
Trusting discussion of it does not matter what does having someone like Warren are having some like beta with these two different camps. Does that tell us anything about what type of president would be electing? So I think that something that is a particularly unique challenge verbatim is that better works kind of initially came to national prominence because he
He was running in a Senate. Race against TED crews in his, unlike ability, has been a matter of some discussion, even among conservatives who were like respect him and think of him as being someone who is very reliable and specific issues. But as someone who, when he first got married, just stockpile cans of soup and then was wife tried to get rid of the kinds of soup p. Just ribaut stockpiles of soup:
this is who TED Cruises, but when you're better work, when you are positioned against TED crews, you instantly become in the eyes of the national, accurate, not so much a Texas Democratic Texas Democrats had some specific qualms with batteries. Can
which they talked about both during the recent afterwards, but naturally, when you are putting someone, in contrast with TED crews, that person will automatically look more effective and better kind of conduit for liberalism writ large, but now NATO's competing against a lot of other Democrats and a lot of other Democrats like Elizabeth Warren, whose entire brand as having done the reading, it will be interesting to see whether not that's a real challenge, though, because I feel as if that, because Baino already has so much attention that there is a sense that the fact that the attention is not on policy but on like who he is and more more importantly, what can be projector
upon him by other people. I think that that will be interesting to see how that kind of ships and turns the risk goes on. So I want to draw like ninety distinctions here. I think our relevant right, because I do think that there are a whole bunch of ways in which Warren and a work strike me as I get opposite ends of the spectrum, and these are all different things that people can be talking about when they talk about like
what's the policy content of better right and one is as a kind of person or you.
a so to speak. Weeds e purse fright and that's a quality that it embitter does not seem to be worn is, but also Hilary
Clinton. What's a person who would be excited to talk about the granular details of their kinds of idea, sway
and be Buddha. Judge also seems to have that quality. I'm not sure that Corey Booker Sprite or the common Harris necessarily does. Then another question is policy
innovation and that's one were Harris and Bucker do have like war right part
them running for president, was it they work with people and they put out signature policy initiative. Spray
and the point of that wasn't that come on Harris is personally a tax policy expert whose passion in life is the details of how the earned income tax credit works. The Gaza we know, biographical, choosing, prosecutor right. She was prosecutor, she was sent Word Cisco, attorney general. She was California attorney general,
relatively little background in tax policy, but she wanted to stick a clean to this idea, and that was a lift act right and a warrant has like twelve signal
initiatives and better also has nine. But there is a different thing. Sprite, like is the candidate disposition, only a dive into the details of policy person, because Bernie Sanders, for example, is also not alike.
one key weeds person, Bernie is and war and also ways and better, isn't like an idiot law right whose, like thing is to say,
I think a really important aspect of american politics is picking Inter party factional fights right. A dazzling, TED crews that-
and it's one of the things they made him vulnerable because, like TED clues, this whole thing at least until he got into a tough re election campaign.
Was like I'm not here. To just say, world Republicans were on the writing. I'm here to tell you that the true meaning of conservatism it faces constant betrayal from other Republicans
I am the steward of the true faith and, like that's Bernie Sanders and its also Elizabeth Warren. It's a bit is not that either right, but it's like it. It's like a twenty fold. Contrast
and I think, some of those things matter and others of them don't
One question is like:
genuinely uncertain, like what kind of policy course that our work would set,
Henry the users. No right like did he extended. The Kigali
planes from the left it some because it's actually vague or unclear is because it's like it's all too clear. Red did like better exists as a national phenomenon, largely because of pod safe America. He got the kind of implicit blessing of Barack Obama. Personally, he has a say
of Obama. Ask rhetorical style he's like a house members who he doesn't have some huge team of people we even could bring into the White House and the like, but better work stands for policy wise is I get in the band back together,
and the Bernie people dont like that, not because they're like oh, I don't even know what this guy believes in its because they know exactly what he believes it and it's not what they believe in which is different.
me saying that, like on foreign policy, like a genuinely dont know what better work thinks, because different Democrats just do different stuff and, like there's a lot of divisiveness another of seven
So I disagree with you here in the house and particularly in the health care. I do not know what better ones on
Here. I think that will actually matter if there is a Democrat elected to the White House in honey. Twenty,
they're gonna man. How is again a matter I mean it's going? Do it feels so familiar from like Trump getting like dead in TWAIN,
Steen. I don't really know what he thought that it should be the replacement plan and it was a total clusterfuck because
all these replacement within swirling around. There wasn't really buying.
any of them. There wasn't clear leadership from either the White House advocate. This is the one we want to do. They were kind of like in the max,
not really leaving that, and I think you know what I look back at two thousand and sixteen you know the reason I don't think they're able to repeal and replace
whereas there never was a good clear. Like ok like hears here's the plan, I think
the fair to and when I look at bidders history, it seems like he's really vacillating between like a lot of different
health options on the laughter and they are very different. Options like there is a huge difference between
whether you're going to go all the way in a medicare for all or, if you're going to say, like okay, let's push for a public auction, those are some pretty different healthcare systems and some different, and I want to know
twitter is fully behind it dimpling systems, but are they different political programmes like this? Here's? The thing right, I think, sometimes Bernie to both like his fans and his critics, is discussed as if this is a guy who hasn't been in the United States com
ass for all this time, and we know how Bernie Sanders operates as a political actor on healthcare policy, and it is exactly the same as how Janshah Caskey and better
can everybody else like none a bad way right but like this is not. He didn't like try to blow up the SBA, because his truth,
and with single pair. It's like the committee is
right these bells. They have to talk to the marginal senators, they're gonna get their scipio scores and, like I dont see,
the legacy like a see if, like when you are president, like you're, going to have to decide what? What
if you want to throw your weight behind right, like President Obama,
Like twas, a very centrist healthcare plan- and you know he did that because he felt like that is what he could pass at that particular moment, and I think
the key key decision in terms of export policy gets pass in terms of. If anything, it's pass.
You know I would want to know if he doesn't think like Healthcare is worth pursuing.
is like a decent guys. I usually with a hen. You could hold it
I don't know, I think it matters a lot
We look like the Trump presidency. As a lesson
It's a president who came in league with no clear policy views at all. It is kind of like floundered to get anything time, but it what what if in in a weird way. I think that the Trump presidency has been somewhat instructive, because I think you Trump had this whole health care for everyone, a thing which meant nothing and
halted in nothing and it didn't matter yeah, but let's take a break. Let us go back to us. The feels like you, don't even of hours in the day to get everything.
Done. She might because you're missing out on three. Where those two hours cup, I we fell into a deep dark abyss that opens up when we switch between working at those
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missions, apply. I guess one where you could look at the trunk question right is like I would say that trumps campaigns signal to us that Donald Trump did not have the capacity to like work well
with policy development teams and what we ve seen from France administration. Is that to the extent that Trump has ideas that the conservative movement agrees with
the basic movement institutions continue to function and they do conservative stuff and you can like it or not like it. I don't like it.
It's not like, because Donald Trump isn't, a weed z policy thinker he's been unable to make air pollution regulations less strict, like the EPA has that world making authority he works with heritage. To get the guys in. Unlike there goes, we're Trump has failed. It seems to me as
president due to his policy weakness is that he as a candidate seem to promise innovation right. Like he's,
said that he was gonna somehow deliver health care for everybody. He said that he was gonna go after hedge fund managers, special tax privileges- he said he was going to have an infrastructure
right and so those who think that the conservative movement didn't want to do and to swim
and the tide like that right to govern a little bit against the main currents of your party. That's really challenge,
and you would really need a strong intellectual basis to go. Do that right and if we had said
body in the field right if we had Andrew Coma right, a relatively centres Democrat whose us
governor of a large state now if he was telling me that, like he as president, was gonna pursue some things that are not normal democratic party priorities. I would take him back
seriously right now, because I'd like love, intercom, oh, but because, like being the governor of mere estate, is an objective. We challenge in job- and we know that, like he has done the job and one real action and he has a staff and he might actually be able to do it. Where's tromp was like a joke
right, but nobody in the democratic field is promising anything like that, so it doesn't just seem-
and I don't to be too disparaging by this right, like I hope this podcast I really enjoy like weeds policy.
sessions. Elizabeth Warren is definitely the person in the field who I would most want to have a beer with. You know and like talk to her about
co determination in Germany and like why she has a forty percent threshold rather than Germans, fifty percent threshold. And did she look at Austria and, like you know, what does she think about works councils versus board representation, like I think, that's ever really really interesting, but like as a citizen, it doesn't seem that important to me,
unless you had a candidate who was saying they want
to go outside the basic nexus of progressive Ology and basic party institution
it just seems, like you know, we're gonna get the same. The same kind of results from all these people gave. Another thing I would toss in here is that we're still pretty early.
You look heads and one of the things that I think is going on is that we have an especially policy heavy primary, because we have all these senator
and the mix. I think of you look like all the people who are policy, who you kind of putting your PA
see innovator, lest I think the thing they all have in common is that they are
our ears and they have these and what
auditors. Do they come up with new policy? Is they try and pass them, and often they dont past, but they re introduce them and they re introduce them and to you definitely more policymaking from those folks. You know as they get ready to throw their hats and twenty
ring. But I think I'm someone who I am
or valuing of like the policies that are being put out like I want to see those from candidate. They do you think they matter in
catching outlook. Whatever things a potential president would support. At the same time, I do see that it is early in this area
Jan and that leg, maybe beta will have his policies? Shop stood out like maybe there's people who work at the Centre of american progress, you're going to be like beta campaign people within a few months and are gonna, be helping like churn out those white papers.
But I don't know, I think I value and obviously, like you know either by us here is a hose republic- has called the weeds
But I think it tells you something when you were doing the policy innovation, because I think it gives you a signal to like what their priorities are going to be as at present. But I think you point out
come here, as you know, putting in the work to do this lift accurate if this isn't about getting into the teeny tiny details about.
it is her innovating.
Particular policy area and saying that this is something that would be important to me, and I think that gives you
a signal that I would like to see from Canada. It's a view what it is. They are planning to focus on, should they be elected. Yet I want those signals. I want those conversations. I just feel as if that I don't know I just can't
over the how early it is the end as primary and we're having this conversation and Trump didn't declare his entrance into twenty sixteen Kennedy until
like several months from now, that this point and twenty fifteen campaigners who know it
so long- and I almost like I dont know if this is particularly helpful for people who are attempting to make decisions or understand fully like you're what each candidate stands for when there is very much of a sense that
that the sparring among Democrats, its? Is that,
challenging or is that good? For Democrats in general? I think good
Caesar you keep going back a priority which I agree is really important right and
when we had the opportunity to talk to Kabul, presidential candidates down down in Austin Right am I
As for the Castro very squarely like what are your priorities can be, and he said it was very important answer right. He said that the number one thing was gonna be to take another bite at the healthcare apple and that, after that, he thought they had to do the UN's
the business of immigration reform and it was clear that
you don't even know he's
said: a million other things that, like those were his top priority, some like that was a good, interesting cancer, and be Buddha. Judge indicated
like he really wanted to push on the sort of democracy, political reform agenda and try to elevate that a little bit right and then I thought was a revealing important
sir, and in a way like warrants thing right. It reminds us that this military adage that they give you defend everywhere you defending nowhere right. It's like she has so many policy areas that are so ambitious that I saw her
down there do it do an event with them and Andy.
gear it s, and here you know that
for ninety minutes, and she, like didn't mention like half of her big things
because she has so so many
would you can. Link is very appealing to me, as I got generalist hot take slinger, but it doesn't actually give you like a clear sense of what is the government's going to be like. It would be interesting to hear from people, though I don't expect them to do it. This earlier innocently ever like some really really
really weeds e boring stuff right. Like do you know a lawyer who has given you a clever idea for something the FCC could go, do rang. You know cause that's a dozen
after a round the margin right. It's like how do you figure out what powers the present has and how do you colonel wheeled them, but I think all the time about the two thousand eight primary right in which they were like all these takes from the healthcare people of a how bad it highlights that oh bomber gets.
lagging I'm Hilary individual mandate, because you know the individual mandate like it was a popular, but it was necessary to make the whole thing work and particularly
then how necessary and how unpopular was maybe no way to get it done. Unless you had a strong public mandate for it, but, like Obama, beat Hilary
They passed the law that had the mandate in it, then the mandate of peeled. So we do not like now.
Be true that Obama wasn't for the mandate to not be true that there was,
a way to get the mandate done without a specific electoral agenda behind it. Also not that the mandate was necessary to make the law work.
And I don't know man like have we have we learned anything as a policy journalism community for MIKE the last big flashpoint on this type of. Let me put that back. So what are you win like you? You look at these candidates and our voters look at that like how does matter glaziers evaluate candidates are think. Think. Voters
because I usually you think, like right now get what they believe. You make decisions based on that yeah,
I mean I just feel like I do what everybody does and, like I just decide on the basis of hazy identity concerns that evidence, and I feel I feel, a bit torrent in multiple directions,
No, but you look, you could have you just don't too, but you could have a bigger clash of visions on the tape right. Like David Leonhard wrote a column the other day saying that he thought Democrats had aired by moving left on immigration from where a bomb was, and that
actually Democrats should become immigration restriction ass. You know not huge restriction us, but he he endorse David from view on this, like he said Anne
a body could say that right, there's like nineteen people in the field, it would not be totally out of bounds. For someone to say we should reposition to the right on this issue and then
could have an argument right now about the specifics of immigration policy, but about the direction reality of it. You could have somebody say
stand up for the old Obama view that we have to make a serious priority,
about reducing the long term budget deficit, including cuts to entitlement programmes. Billing number
The field is saying that right and left
It would be interesting debates and if we were having those debates, I would make up my mind.
based on who I agreed with, but we're instead have.
really weird Nick picky debates, and, oh, I don't know-
like into the car. Odd way, like remember when Sarah like this,
you used to be like an out abound thing to say the Democratic Party that the typical American Over consumes healthcare services and that we need to try to induce them to consume fewer healthcare services by increasing out of
it healthcare costs. That was again means stream view inside the Democratic party which would make for a really productive contrast with
we sanders his view that not only is it a crisis that their uninsured Americans, but at the insured majority, are perilously under insured and need much much more robust coverage Vienna
care for all cause, then I wouldn't be looking at say, like Jim Cooper and Bernie Sanders, arguing about that enrolling, my eyes being like wasn't: gonna come down to the Senate, because actually
which direction do try to push the system is makes a big deal but like if everybody thinks we need to expand insurance by increasing the public sector. Raw and imposing more price controls. Then like
that that's a consensus to every that, like all the more reason like why I want to give me the majority
there is a policy does matter
I, if you had a candidate who was expressed,
something new that was. In contrast,
the other candidates,
I don't know, maybe better with someone
views like I just want to know.
what it is that he is thinking about these things and you know tracing through its healthcare record most recently, his he's indoors
public option Taipei Dear, and maybe that is where he is going to land
It would be helpful to have a sense of what he is a candidate thinks about this thinks about other issues to see if there is a kind of Inter party conflict or, if not, I think
I think, you're right. That is a field where it is very crowded, with people like less crowded with like policy different
is among those people, but you you can't even know that if you dont like heavy sense of like what are the things that are better,
come on the way. It's right. He probably said: that's you know after various pods,
that's right. That's that's how you prove yourself. I mean it's easy, it's easy to combine a mega Duncan Trump, but you know you
you gotta get in here at a certain point, unlike governor, but look
We know this is not really a farm policy show, but it seems too
that in the realm of farm policy, you are much less objectively constrained by Congress. People
goin politics for certain kinds of reasons, and I was a relatively few people get into politics because of their views on farm policy, but also this is in practice a huge amount of what the president deals with like a lot of that shit on your desk.
Has anyone national security policy and when you just like scanned the headlines right, is like a what crazy blocks are happening. A lot of them also have to do with far international security policy
The bar is like so low to make a contribution to that debate. I think most of the candidates have literally said nothing on this subject
I need a big speech about foreign policy a couple months ago. There was interesting issue like build it
foreign policy budget like really zoomed in two like her stuff about middle class incomes, unlike betrayal, by multinational corporations.
And I M really agree with it, but you know is interesting, but also not like the main issue right like should we haven't.
Ended military presence in the Middle EAST, or should we not like that? That's who think a good question ally people I know disagree about,
Yeah. No, I mean it seems like a very domestic policy. Have I mean again like come acts like Would Jane was saying what goes on to say. It's been pretty domestic policy heavy,
married that we ve been having for a few months and that will continue for the rest of our lives year. Another it's! It's really fun to be essentially rehashing twice exchange while beginning to pre hash, twenty twenty, as we will do for the rest of our natural lives echo, but I've got a kind of
tells me you know certain things about legal, where the energies of a democratic presidency would be focused. Anything
his intention with the fact that a lot more you can do on the foreign policy front. You too, I think it is fair to expect that this president
is going to be coming into divided government, one way or another you're not going to see. These are ambitious childcare policies or the lift
Durham, Medicare Frolic
none of those at the end of the day or really becoming law,
That's very likely wrapped in this first term of a presidency, but I think it.
I don't know it's interesting kind of speaks to you to where the Democratic Party is in a way, that's very different from Republicans, where there's so much focus on domestic economic policy. Right now like when you look at like what
they're, putting their energies too. It is very much in that space ends and picture, be. I think that reflects a candidate want the little bit perversely, as they want to talk about the issues that they do.
disagree about sheriff, whereas it would be more informative to kind of get at this end
This is where Sanders has dabbled in. In this area are right in saying that, like it's, not just that trumped as bad tweets, but that there is a global access of authoritarianism that he'd lumps together tromp Putin, America's traditional Persian Gulf allies-
even name Bb Netanyahu and en Passant arrow and Brazil as part of this right, and that is not a detailed framework for american foreign policy. But it is a broad outline of a change in approach from Trump that would
not simply were store the Obama approach, but try to map out a new kind
thing right, and what would that amount to exactly? I really know it seems like in its details. It has implications for Israel's implications for aid
and I'm not seeing any one else like engaging with that subject, and there was a boy I forget
those were here, but there were some some of it. The Democrats, like top national security, guys, came into office a couple months ago, and they like reported that there was total unity of
and within the party, and then somebody mentioned Israel and melted down immediately. But it's like why
you get into that at this point because it makes areas like to but like that's like at the start of a pint.
Mary. Before, like there's a debate,
as yet there is no motivation to show Europe
hard on saying if we only as podcast hosts are going to stir some shit up
I don't think it should be about, like endlessly dotting the tease, how your public option works like that, unless they do
some too? Isn't public finance? Well, that's fine! You know! If that's, if that's your thing here, wait, let's take a second breakin then I want I want to try to try to bring this brings back down to earth.
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Hey everybody: this is Jason buckling and let me welcome you back to our podcast in conversation with sharp affect plus
season. One was all but the biggest names and business Steep Maddy, Danny Reeves Chip Wilson waiting here who are talking to now proceeding to fill prim ceo aspect works myths, founder tv, a higher Qatar Counter, Heather Hassen, Trina Spear, cofounder, Hosea Eggs, Chrysophora cofounder Lord.
And capital area K C this. His in conversation wish of my place
why which the current situation is very different to me than the two thousand, a primary or even then, the twenty. Sixteen republican primary is that at the end,
the day right the reason, the whole Obama Hilary spat about the mandate we have not amounting to that. Much is that
was a strong process in Congress around healthcare policy that wound up Willie driving things
what's interesting to me is there. I dont think that we see that now the these sort of gesture better made toward. I like this bill that somehow Democrats have was like indicative of. I think how a more functional system would work, but
how our system is actually work like it doesn't seem to me that House Democrats are
right now look. We have eighteen thousand presidential candidates. We have no idea which one of them away
We know that most of them seem interested in health policy as seem interested in like public options. So we now need to decide like what's gonna happen in,
How soon grads I'd like to know what they're doing their arguing better home
there are holding the first ever met care for all hearing this
I am aware, what's gonna happen at the hearings,
these are things that job well secured. If they have not been scheduled yeah, they party will be laid to later this year, but they, I think
see. I mean one: it does Israel little familiars. You see this like lay
of a groundwork for creating legislation. That does,
familiar to me like the two thousand AIDS era.
I think, it's a longer tail, because I think we're preparing for a presidency that all being divided government, the odds of Democrats taking the Senate and twenty twenty are quite
Lois, you have this very long tail preparation process where the earliest you could do a program like that, probably isn't going to be told twenty to twenty four percent
can between you know the now the now and then one of the key things that has to happen is actually like figure out like ok like what is it that we support, unlike what
the type of healthcare plan that have of childcare plan. Whatever. Whatever you decide, your priority is unique.
that kind of pre legislative phase, where you deal with all those weeds e questions and get pretty close to consent,
ass in order to actually move some,
when you are in a position to like, have enough political power to do
so, and you know I think I can come back to the example example Obamacare repeal, were they never did that groundwork, like they weren't coalescing around a play
and right that, because that was never the point, it's interesting coat. I think about this a lot following the right that the idea of Obamacare appeal, that was the loan idea, the whole repeal and replaced they never got to the replace fright, and there has been the reception, interesting piece in the Washington examiners actually reach this last to accept compared. It took an breaks it of this idea, like you have a thing, but you have no plan for what actually happens if the thing takes place because you ve been using the thing as a political cudgel this whole time, but this issue, because the world, why the
big problem with breaks it right is that, like the claim that the regulators made was that being in the European Union, not only involved a level of immigration that was unpopular with many british people, but was a net costs
to the british economy and the reality was the opposite. That being in the
European Union Force the UK to accept a certain open labour market. That was not popular domestically, but was a net
a fit to the UK economy threatens if there was a trade off that they were allowed to leave and cut back on migration, but that it would be costly to do so and the breaks it people they just. They just lied about that, which is why
they became the dog had caught the car and it was the same with healthcare. Rightly Republicans, campaign against Obama. Care was based on representing two
Bomb, that they were going to be able to get them better healthcare point when it's not that they never they didn't like. Do the work to write such a plan. It didn't actually reflect what conservative
of policy is right, like the conservative health walks. Just did not agree that the problem with Obamacare was deducted
swear to her. It was a lie right and see them
when they one they had to reconcile, but they have promised with their actual agenda and they can they couldn't write
Republicans are a little hazy on what exactly it is. They want to do about abortion policy when the court start letting them ban abortions,
we don't like struggle to come up with ideas right like they are pretty honest about the fact that their view on abortion is that it's bad, unlike Lake
system lay when given room by courts come up with new things. They can try right there. Very productive they're not like dullard sewer unable
to come up with these eggs. Even they don't have. A link fully agreed upon in advance like here are twelve step programme to get where we wait. Overturned than ban abortion, smashing
it's like they just keep doing it, because it's not a bait and sweat trade. In the reason they could get it done. I'm I'm healthcare. It seems to me as if they were they were bullshitting.
this baby, a little bullshit and the Democrats, healthcare rhetoric, but like it's pretty clear that they're all moving towards something that involves a bigger public sector raw
exactly? How big exactly? How does it work? You know I mean that's hard to say, but it's like the work that keeps not getting done is for the full scale Medicare for all people deciding what kind of tax
They want to re use, but like we're now until I year how many
is I've Bernie Sanders his presidential campaign and he gives not doing that, but, like
that's really does he hasn't had enough time. Nobody think that's kind of like the version of Obamacare repeal right.
It's a thing you don't really want to deal with, because the thing that is hard and yapping that's gonna- make people angry at me. I think that is something you could hoped. I would like to see come out like through this along heated primary process, and I don't think it's going to be like that, like similar to foreign policy, I don't think it's like the thing I can't
They're going to want to talk about like it's not like you go out there like being like okay he's not in financing my Medicare for all plan. Here's his big tax increases that it's going to require, but I think
like. That would be a clear vying discussion. I would hope to hear
I think that is one where you would actually see some policy difference between different candidates out. Nor does it
mannerly give the end of the day? I don't have all this will change. You know. If you end up electing one of these peoples at the office.
Think anyone's can remember the answer they gave on medical for all pay for it and we like, but you said you don't just like the individual mandate, like things change and that's the place, I don't wanna go to restart this conversation and how much should I wait? The total lack of policy substance from NATO and, like the podcast,
worse than like weeds hosted me wait said a lot like like. Why would you like someone who has put out zero policy proposals
then, look, I don't know. I just don't know if that is the rights
and the whole dear. When you have this pretty defined universe of policies that seem to be constraining
what a democratic element, a thing we would like we used to have is that governors would do well in presidential campaigns, because
There was this dichotomy between you don't want it vote for like total blank slate in his back out. This guy does a good job
he's called standing on tables, but you know you don't want to just mode for like a stack of white papers that has nothing to do with how the american government actually operates.
where's, being governor of a state, is a similar kind of job to being president and you can try to take a holistic look at a state governor and say like did he make progress on certain kinds of key goal stripe, unlike
what things did he make progress on, or did things get worse and like do I all in all, like this guy and like his approach right?
I think it is unfortunate that trend has kind of gone away. Why did when you looked at you know, George W Bush or Rick parent, you could say: what's going on with tax spreading, say well, taxes at a very pro business.
Governance regime taxes also appears to, unlike some conservative states, have a fairly effective small state right in the sense that, like it, school system produces ok results, even those very scantily funded and you get them
thing right, it's like they are they serious about clamping down on pollution like no right?
Do they manage to get roads belt, despite aversion to taxes like yes, there big what you know, so you can actually just look at right instead of like subjecting the people too, like some kind of crazy inquisition, you can interrogate a real record and what's frustrating
whether these are people who ve been on capital, hills inside dinosaurs, roam the earth
or a guy who serve three terms in the housing. Didn't do anything is like you, you can't
surely assess them as governing entities and add so I find that hard to think of
may I also I don't wanna end up. Is that without saying it seems that there is definitely gendered element to this as well. It is very, very hard for me to see a woman running in this primary like a three term. Congresswoman
who had no policy positions that are unheard of
this massive as grassroots grassroots, fundraising effort, they gay it. It seems there is such an onus on female female candidates like war and to have this thick binder of policy positions to be taken as a credible candidate words like look. I have these ideas.
I mean it's a bit of damned. If you do damned, if you'd do I enjoy, it seems like Elizabeth Warren. Much like Clinton is running into these criticisms of she's to prepare it and she's too bookish and she's. Just
in the weeds and area there is on table, tops began. There is hardly.
and a table, and you argue that there is a recent thing I saw on Twitter. People, like you, wouldn't be so great of war in and come Allah Harris spoke without notes and stood on a table, and people like they do often speak without notes, and also like
getting on a table and countertop to do anything, has a very different there's, a very different lens on it. For
right, and I think it is frustrating to me that, like maybe it's true that the pie
suppositions. You run, unlike actually, you know, you're not going to: u wedded to them there. So many things that change once you end up and in the machinery of Washington, but is essentially off limits to female candidates to run that campaign. At this point you know that they could not run the beta campaign and still be successful, that they're kind of stuck on the lake policy side of the US, yes
that's it. I mean it's not totally clear that better skipping successful. But yes, I agree with that, and I think that this is probably the actual thing that is going on with better as that,
a million american women. This is the very essence
of the brash less qualified man trying to l a
away, rethinking literally from a big promotion because he's just like
He is literally physically larger than they are shocking
the plan written by two of his female call.
How is it did
This is my Medicare for our planet and at some point, the dinner internal slack. We're like ocean, we call the bureau's proposal
absolutely not like. You did not write this. He just found this planned. He said he liked it, but you know to Jan Schakowsky and Rosa Delauro, the people who actually wrote it to long serving house members,
and legislators, veteran legislators. You know right this Medicare for America policy that he is now enjoy
I don't have a good solution to this, but it is incredibly frustrating to me that that that might be the type of campaign that works better. That might even result in like some good policies getting past, but it's a type of campaign
that I think a woman really struggle to remedy. This was exactly Barack Obama's two two thousand ass ever
it is realistic in Cuba, has necessarily ran. No, no
but I mean, are you running this monks right for, like you, you're, on the opposite side of that, at that
Time rise young, and I mean I think it is true right that it's like the presidency. I think not just in the sense that, like we have male coded expectations for who should be president, but that, like the presidency as it is,
tradition is this very because it combines head of government head of state roles.
Is this very male coded type thing right like it's? It's not collaborative
you dont, send to it through.
experience. The way like becoming speaker of the house right, like needs evolution
first woman becomes bigger the house, but every previous speaker of the house had been in
Congress for awhile, had served in secondary leadership positions before becoming speaker right. It's like it's like a climb. The
after a kind of job and the presidency, or the looks of heads of State
another colleague, more parliamentary. Yes, it's exactly right. You are elected by your colleague ex right, so they put you forward because they like you, you work well with them. They trust you to mediate. Their disputes,
almost every president. Is this like crazy line, jump right? It's like Republicans,
like we're title losing every election like let's get General Eisenhower,
Donald Trump from a tv show, Reda gets really weird and there and there, like almost all like that. With the exception of the occasion, all George W Bush, like dutiful Vice President Kinnock, comes up your we ve seen these conversations recently like when I spoke with Governor J easily. He talked a lot about like the need to abolish the filibuster and how that was something like he really wanted to focus on that and our conversation now abolishing the filibuster is something that both Barack Obama and Donald Trump have expressed interesting, but they cannot do it. That is a job for Congress and it's interesting to see these policy discussions being
not so much foisted upon presidential candidates, but presidential candidates really taking the models like this is something I am but I'm more interested in like ok. How would you get Congress to do this, but it is interesting to see this strange moment of presidential candidates being reflective not of just themselves in some ways, but I've like an entire world of policy or like what them becoming representative of that policy policy. They could not necessarily get passed into law
even if they were to when the White House? Yes, it is true. I didn't get a better question to ask about, but our work right is like what is he actually done right in his career in politics like what are his big achievements,
and you don't always. You know, there's something to be said for like electing a younger president to necessarily one have done as much stuff, but like did you do something that was impressive for a sophomore house member as a sophomore house member are like. Are you just tall and Ye Sabena Band right cause? I thought
very different thing swayed does like is like having a short resume, and in this I met with you haven't done anything
Bulgaria pause about better is that it could be like the latter. Random form right,
feels very unpredictable. I think that is like one of the things that I,
as a host of this podcast, like I want to evaluate people by their policy positions, and I can use that as a good, solid, like smart person. Metric to figure out like who would be best at leading this country
I don't think there is great, and you know if you know this research please chaired, and the weeds Facebook group. I dont know that there is a strong body of research tethering what people are running on, unlike their amount of policy, expertise on the site. You, Galicia,
you know weeds plots, Emily idea, all from Chicago Delors, pretty good merriment
here for America very interesting healthcare planned kind of nice middle ground between Obamacare and better care for all- I just you know, there's
Rate, it is frustrating to me that, like I want to
use these policy positions. I know that there is actually great research to suggest that that is going to be a good way for me to lick help the country pick a president having finding ways to take credit for women's hard work is a classic way to get ahead in american life, and, let me know if you are effective added. You can really go place, says yes and an answer on the shoulders of women.
countertops the bitter Aurora campaign, exactly speaking, which I will be off on Tuesday, so we're gonna. Have Sarah Jane and era has taken credit for each other's idea. It's gonna be who's. Gonna, take greater rigour. It's gonna, be a disaster
Naturally, we find, I feel so reassured that. Thank you long awaited lady weeds. I am Tuesday exactly yet come into the into the weeds. Facebook group tell us what you think about all this, whose ideas, you think deserve to be stolen, etc. Thanks everybody up there for listening, thanks as always to our producers. I forgot the weeds would be back. I Tuesday.
Lindsey you, I the creator of the outdoor gauss Facebook group. Why did you start this? Facebook? I was
backpacking with my guy friends- and I was like you know there have to be other woman out. They feel the same exact way as me. It's really just a group for women to connect and explore together. What's the craziest thing you ever done,
one time while travelling through Maui, who I climbed to the top of the tree and did a sixty four jump into a lake. I will never forget that jump. Facebook, groups more together get started at Facebook, dot com, slash groups
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Transcript generated on 2021-09-11.