« The Weeds

Trump isn’t losing immigrant kids, but he is taking them from their parents

2018-06-01

Sarah and Matt are joined by Vox.com Congress reporter Tara Golshan to talk about missing children, separated families, and the latest immigration action on the Hill. References and other reading: Sarah's piece with an immigration expert explaining the 1,500 "missing" migrant children Sarah explainer on family separations Tara's piece on Republican moderates and immigration Dara's explainer on the family separation policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
History may judges quite harshly for how we treat animals on factory farms in one easy step makes a huge difference. If you just do not eat chickens, you, and almost all of our support for the horrors of factory farms. It's hard to believe that the math is really simple. Eating chickens cut up almost all the cruelty. From our diet, no matter what you eat instead, so please take this one step of placing chickens on your plate visit one step matters, dot com torrent? How easy it is to get on the right side of history out back in the money right. We make impact, has great again hello, welcome to another sort of the weeds on the box media Potass network. I met replace yes, I mean today we have certain technical soon and that we do not have their. Who is in Austria really
upsetting anyway in typical sort of care is immigration got hot when she, when she left town, a couple weeks ago? I guess the trembling patient had rolled out new initiatives that we're gonna be separating children from their pay, and when they arrived at the border without permission asylum seeker, and there was this chilling quote from chief of staff. John Kelly, where he is, the children will be taken care of put into foster care or whatever. And you know, as a parent eminence a human being, but like really is apparent to say it just like its second pay and then over the weekend there was this story, teller flying around on the internet about the government had lost at fifteen hundred immigrant children who had been in care, and I and I think it- not alone? Among the liberals, sorted that confirm
who is an mix these two stories up and did some did some fake news tweets and I think retweeted some photos from twenty four in detention centres. These are all things that have happened right, like blankets, It's not fake news in the sense that, like one of these stories is made up, But they are actually separate issues here that I think many Trump critics myself included, were somewhat confusing together and dare I am sure would have just went over and punched me,
in an office, but she wasn't she. She dashed off a few tweets from afar off timezone and left resurrect it to figure it out, as a Sarah had stepped into the brie s I put on my band journalism, better more points I will do. My best Darrow end had to figure out what was going on here and I think there actually, citing there actually is like a bit of like a fake news element to what happen. So I think that you think I got scrambled up a little better. This policy separating parents from kids at the border, if their apprehended between check points and then also this testimony from April, where a Trump Administration official noted that they had been unable to reach these one thousand four hundred and seventy five minors, who are in custody of some kind of guardian and awaiting a deportation, hearing. So these Two things are separate: they either I still have not been able to figure out how they got total
squish together on the internet, but I want through them both because I spent a lot of time at the beginning as we talking emigrant, have gets, and they see things, really really differently so so called missing children when I'd ask immigration advocates. Are these children missing as I am not an expert in this, and I came to them with Madame questions. Now? You know these kids are not missing. What's going on here is there is testimony in front of a Senate committee on April Twenty Eightth, where, with the person who runs the Office of Refugee resettlement, which is responsible for another need minors in the United States who are awaiting d attention hearings he tested, before Congress and he said that they had been unable to read one thousand four hundred and seventy five kids. Currently with some kind of guardian awaiting deportees.
In hearings, it's a what what are those unaccompanied minors? Yes it these unaccompanied minors, are mostly kids who try to cross into the country. by themselves. Some time in the past few years there are, prevented by a border authority likely put some kind of juvenile detention centre for at least some period of time. But the government has a mandate to move these children to the least restrictive setting of care or so, and usually that is not a juvenile detention facility. Usually that is living with a parent a close relative someone who's in the United States who can take care of them? Sometimes these deportation proceed This can take years and it doesn't make sense for Daphne from a child. There were no perspective to have kids in these facilities for years from aim economic perspire, the costs of paying to have these kids? It just doesn't make much sense to keep these kids housed in some kind of government So what the government tries to do, and
It's usually successful in doing is releasing these kids to some kind of guardian who can take care of them for that time, that they're waiting and what this? you're refers to is in September. Twenty fourteen, the guy we decided to start checking and on these kids, a little bed just to check. Are they wish the person that they said they were going to every member September. Twenty fourteen, as a great around we're having this wave of unaccompanied minors coming into the country is to create a crisis situation. Download from was not predominant without residence. President Obama was president in twenty fourteen, so they decided in September twenty four routine, we're going to start making a phone call. Thirty days after a kid gets placed with a guardian, we are call that person just call them once and see. What's up and that's essentially what we're talking about with the so called missing children, the governor seven thousand phone calls, are so between November twenty seventeen and December twenty seventeen about
thousand cases the guardian picked up the phone and they talk to them about it. one thousand four hundred and seventy five cases, the guard and did not pick up the phone, and so you know, if I called match and like mad, did not pick up his phone. I will not a colleague, shit man is missing and I'll never do the weeds. Again, I don't know what happened to him, our sailing Matt, pick up his phone, and that is how it would interpret it in that's what we're talking about here and like when I talk to these immigration advocates. You know we in and ask them why dont people pick up their own. I think there's some of the things that you know some I've come to mind for us first, like oh, there worried about that. Administration as a hostile environment, and they don't want to talk to someone who somewhat involved in immigration services of that's the case, but a lot of its really boring and legit to call like eyes targeted. Some attorneys, who often work with these populations, who say they afternoon, rely on a pay. As you go far, and sometimes the phone just runs out of money and you
reach them in and they switched or new phone number in a few weeks. It's just you know a population that is sometimes hard to reach for boring. but just logistical reasons. So that's what's up with you, the missing kids and I think, like the keeping to take away from all of this when you immigration advocates. They don't feel like these kids are missing. They feel like You know these kids are probably in a day since situation, their action the little wary of the idea of even more government surveillance of this particular population there are really worried about. Is this separation policy that brought out right so like it is possible that some number of children are missing But that number is not fifteen hundred right. So there were a few dozen people they reached in those seven thousand phone calls. You said the kid they were in charge of had run away where those kids yeah. Maybe we're gonna say they are missing, but that's even a little bit to believe that this is a consequence of an effort to deal with
the unaccompanied minors in a relatively humane. Were rising again, but bringing bosses like this is because they didn't keep a bunch of fourteen in sixteen year olds in prison indefinitely. Ride like they are. with families they check in on them. Asia. Italy. The check in is imperfect, and you know I do If we want the government to like triple surveillance of this population, despite like Kelly's dismissive, foster care or whatever remark like the fact that fifteen hundred of them did not pick up the phone tried to contact them, reflects an effort to light not be caging. Everyone who was apprehend right makers and the sponsors don't have to have legal immigrants.
status, and so that I think that plays into why immigration advocates are weary of more government surveillance on this, because in putting these kids in sponsored families or foster care, whenever they dont check, the legal patients at us up, though spot? Although that's one thing that seems to be, there is some kind of memorandum came out a few weeks ago, and I wished I was here to talk about it, but that giving the government some authority for new sponsors to look in, Their immigration stand right now. The thing that's kept this a bit separate is that unaccompanied minors, their process through the office. you do your settlement, which is part of Health Newman Services, which is totally separate from immigration. It says from the Department of Homeland Security. Now they are doing some of that processing in conjunction with the department for Homeland Security. So there is actually a worry about this, option. You know this option of sending kids Shorty sponsors becoming more limit, If they move away from that policy. That turns talking about towards one where they do check immigration.
data as preserving bissing kids. Now not really amazing, not considered a crisis by Africa, where not really about Donald Trump. Nowhere, as the family supper, yeah. So the family separation thing like that's the real thing that is keeping immigration advocates, really worried and really nervous about what this year is going to look like so a few weeks ago. There is a press conference or attorney General Jeff session said there simply going to have a zero tolerance policy. I am those without document crossing into the border who are apprehended. You know not a specific checkpoint one of the ways they are going to implement that zero tolerance policy is by prosecuting all of these processors handing them over to a? U S, marshalls for some kind of criminal. Sitting that can offer take a while can be a long delay process in one of the kind of things that would hold. That up is that their
our limits on how long a family can be held in custody under the Obama administration is set twenty days, so Essentially, the Trump administration comes up with a work. our to say, oh well, you know they're, not family any more we're going to take the kids into custody is unaccompanied minors, minors, and then we can essentially hold onto the parents as long as we like as we process them. So what is happening right now is that parents, kids, who crossed the border together, are being separated. If their apprehended the parents go into the custody of the? U S: Marshall, for criminal proceedings, the children go into the custody of the Office of Refugee resettlement and they essentially become and unaccompanied minors. They become part of the population there, we're just talking about earlier. The population that goes into some kind of juvenile detention facility The goal is to ultimately release them too apparent or a relative. That big harder when the parent has just been put into.
did of the: U S, Marshall. It becomes harder to find someone who's going to take on that kid and so we know that policy started. May seventh by May twenty second third Ben, I believe it's six hundred and thirty eight adults apprehended border, and they were with six hundred and fifty eight children who, if they ve sent Spitten separated with so that's over six, your kids, who are being put, this point early enough, probably in some kind of detention facility holding place will eventually likely be released into the custody of a guardian, but that The thing for a lot of reasons that uniform framing just for the welfare of the kids fur, the families it becomes really really hard to stay in touch when the guy went to separating you into two situations being run by two totally separate federal agencies and there's all of hurdles that just come up like one. You know emigration advocates race, to me was that it becomes
harder to defend and unaccompanied minors in their deportation. Hearings are giving of a five year old who separated from their parent. They probably don't. I, their birth certificate. They probably have like documentation, then you're certainly don't know like their own case for asylum, in a way that their parents would know the case for asylum. So now Some folks who represent these unaccompanied minors. They say it just becomes so much harder to represent a kid when you're not interpret their parent because they just very sustainably do not know the back story to why they are in the United States in the first place. I think it's important to note that this policy from The Trump administration was born out of this belief that they have that. I mean there are more families coming in seeking asylum which is legal you're allowed to come in and seek asylum, but there's this belief company ministration that they are not the family is that people are fraudulently like.
having children and bringing them across the border and saying hey, we're a family so treat us more gently and so zero tolerance policy is basically saying like we're going to weed out whose faking this actual numbers of how prevalent this kind of fraud is more murky. So, like that's where this is all come out of an obviously, there are complications to that kind of direct. Ok, what's the break in and let's talk about some of that larger background to this. today is national gun violence Awareness Day and the start of where Orange weekend and people round the country are coming together with a simple message: there's more we can do to end gun violence. I saw every year we town for gun safety in a coalition of partners calling Americans to wear orange to honour. The the ninety lives, cut short by gun violence every day and to demand action for the future free from gun. Violence Join the movement by wearing Orange Today poster pictures online using the hashtag. We're orange to show you committed to ending gun violence
it's a year, twenty eighty, and so, if you are doing something almost anything in life like you- are going to want a website and there is no better way to make a website them with swears fees. I started making website for myself fifteen years ago or more and is a nightmare back then, and now it is incredibly with square space. They have a meeting templates. Amazing customization gets like that. Looks incredibly original. You don't need any real technical skills to make it happen, even turn a cool idea into state. You can show case you work. We do a blog, publish content. You can host of pod cast, you could do photo portfolios, you can sell products and services while kinds promoting physical warrant online business. It's amazing to me like how many businesses neighbourhood still have either website or like a really bad one with square space will be prillie, easy, really simple: to create praise one dutiful templates created by world class designers, you're gonna get sing, that's customized, but looks professional. They have powerful e commerce functionality and seated sell anything online. They handle all that stuff customize. You look and feel everything is optimized for mobile right out of the box. I got a new way to ply domains choose from over two hundred extensions analytics that help you grown real time built in search engine, optimization, free and secure hosting, and they ve got twenty four seven aboard winning customer support. If you have read the kind of problems as were incurred, you folks, to make it yourself easily created website by yourself. Here's what you need to do. If you go to square space, dotcom slash, we get a free trial ready to launch these offer code needs and you'll see. Ten percent off your first purchase website. Take it with square space so
I mean, I think, is as terrorists were starting to allude to where it is like a big philosophical divide as to like what is happening here, and one viewpoint is that families who are showing up at the border without permission requesting asylum in the United States are act, all families who have plausible asylum claims that the United Aids has a legal obligation both under U S in international law, to take seriously and that to come to the United States seeking refuge, is like a legitimate thing. that one should be doing, and therefore people are Hidell to humane treatment that you would give to an asylum seeker, recognising that, of course, in any large population, not every claim will be legitimate, but but that there should be a presumption that these are like, we'll families with wheel, asylum claims
Conversely, I mean, if you see like the departure of homeland Security tweeted yesterday, if you commit a crime in the United States, you're gonna be prosecuted and you're gonna end up separated from your family, we're not going to create special privileges, illegal aliens right through it, Their view is that, like now that, like this, is bogus there is no legitimate asylum claim that people are just coming up from Central America attempting to emigrate illegally into the United States, they want humane. meant at the border so that they can sneak away and like infiltrate into american society these are criminals who need to be treated with our sanctions in order to deter other people from coming and that message is really clear. So that mean there is a fairy. I think it's viral exchange between centre, Coma Harris and the day Trust Secretary Chris and Nielson where
the day chest. The message is clearly like these: this is a criminal prosecution. They are breaking. U S, and we are following: U S line enforcing it and call it was like right, but the effect of that is that your separating children from their families. So it's like this constant back a fourth of clearly the trumpet missed. She wants to make sure that that message about the legality of crossing the borders at the forefront of this, and not be a fact which is separate, at least one. I think one important piece of contacts to like what is going and here is that there is Violence happening in North Central America right now, so where there is actually just on May twenty seconds so little about two weeks ago, the, U N refugee agents. They put out a report showing that asylum speakers from north of Central America, as this is mostly El Salvador Guatemala, Honduras. The numbers were up fifty eight percent from last year,
and sixteen times more people seeking asylum at the end of twenty seventeen than were in twenty eleven. So there is something going on that appears to be tried people not just seeking refuge in it- states. But do they list countries, Belize, Mexico, increasingly, and Eureka in Panama there You are seeing in a little way, reminiscent of twenty fourteen kind of this growing slide and in a minute is a big deal too. Come all the way to the United Usually you aren't doing that on a whim we're talking bill coming from countries even further south and Mexico coming up through Mexico to try and make it through the air borders that there is a rough Ukraine is kind of brewing, do you and has gotten worse about one thing I was here about targets and even targeted some people about this is I've seen from some Republicans and from the trumpet, the station they keep making references to
suppose it. The law that requires these separations. I people this had the doesn't exist. Bankers like what's going on there and like hell, that's factoring into this whole debate. This idea- and I think that is the truth- phrased it in some way on Twitter, saying like how will this is just the Democrats, terrible law requiring us to do this right, and so I was on a white house. Con Stephen Miller is going on and the only reason we have two separate families is because of laws that Democrats are forcing to be in place and, like that's just like not the case they are not legally obligated to separate families they just operating on this assumption that there are all the traffickers taking children and posing as asylum seekers and these White House officials are telling this story well, they know the magic words and how to get in because they can just they ve learned tat a trick. The system- and that is the message you're putting out there. But it's not like yes, there.
court rulings under the Obama era that restricted how families could be in detention. So, like you mentioned earlier, but in terms of like a legal obligation to separate families, that's The case is way, but this has been a tricky sort of Laguna in to national law? I think for decades. Weight, which is that, like in legal theory. There's a psychic credibly, sharp divergence between a refugee and, like I wanna, be immigrant and my country's under international law are entitled to infinite discretion with regard to want to be immigrants, you know- and you gladden, who you want under what terms you want, and you like. You now have a gun and barbed wire, and you keep out everybody else. But then, if there's a refugee, like all these special obligations that apply- and you know people have rights
silent claims and you know, there's an obligation on the part of whichever country they arrive in the house. And take care of them and all kinds of post war or to treaties and settlements. It and things like that and trot arises, whether it's in the? U S border or in ITALY right now has been a big issue in their politics or in Greece. Is that like in the real world. It's like not that hard and fast stride like beer is reason that people who live in Latin America want to come to the United States, there has been for decades, there's been some flow of unauthorized immigration into the United States for law. Long time and company ministrations view that the quality of the treatment that asylum seekers receive in the United States may play,
happily impact. The number of people who come seeking asylum is like not crazy way. Unlike the legal construct, its like look there refugees who are fleeing for their lives and so like nothing? You do. You know, impacts more changes. There incentives so they're like they are entitled to get treatment and then there's like the immigrants who are entitled to do nothing but like reality is murky or in countries all know its mark here, and that's why this policy, you think it's way makes sense right, like their their view. Is that of word gets back to Honduras, Thou bike the evil monster, Donald Trump, is separating content. From their mothers and it's horrible disaster that like then people won't come right I'll, stay home or they'll go to Costa Rica or, like whatever but like they won't come to the United States and like that's what trump and care and Nelson like that's what they want. They want people to not come here, so they are treating people
cautiously as they think they can within the bounds of the law, and then there like tweeting, some nonsense about grants? Re any, and that was in the New York Times reported that that was the directive was that this is a measure of deterrence for other asylum seekers or people. Thinking about it being asylum seekers in assented. Hearing curtain Ilsa from teach us denied by was the directive that you really received that it not a method of turns into a forest fire, because in theory you mean only in theory, it's illegal to punish refugees to deter future asylum seekers. Yes, but clearly that's what they're doing yeah, but I think, like the place where it becomes and clearly where this happens as you have. This really big increase in people claim three refugees from these three countries from kind of northern and Central America. Some of them are going to Costa Rica, they're going to other play says, but in a word, tat
about, according to you at number, is a sixteen fold increase since two thousand one and the number of people who are leaving this area to seek refuge elsewhere and get like not just coming United States coming to a number of countries. Is, it seems unclear how it lays out. We know when you This massive wave of people, yeah, like some of them, are gonna go somewhere else. But like what happens, it is enough of that current. When you have this many people, it is the pure volume, still lead to a number of people ending up in this nation, and what does that mean for you to this infrastructure? that has been built to manage this population, one of the things you dont right now, most undocumented minors are not getting representation and courts that, unlike give citizens, there is no mandate if they receive at public defence. There are a number of non profit that do this work that try to find these kids and make sure they representation, because they, you know unsuppressed
only a toddler or like a five year old or even a fifteen year old is going to do a lot better. If their defended in court by an attorney But if you have you, no more kids coming into this system, unaccompanied Geena, that's it huge stress on this system that already is missing most of those unaccompanied minors. I mean no, because they don't have the bandwidth too, handle them, and I don't think we know right now. You know we have. On the one hand, it's kind of policy that it seems even if it is not meant to deter refugees seeking am aside, in the United States would likely deter refugees seeking asylum in the United its bud. You all of this big big wave of Fiji is, I don't know, where those two things: meat and the United States, but it is a worry for the people who are defending these kids. What might happen you know
As you are, you know creating a larger population of unaccompanied minors by specifically separating them from their parents. I was just going to say it's such a clear extension of the rhetoric that Trump has used from the getting him in during the campaign. He was very clear out sewing fear about refugee communities. Whether you're coming from Syria or coming from Central America and is this policy is just such a letter from the travel and that was enacted that capped refugees or mean ended refugees and then capped at two. Now it's it's a very high natural progression of world view here, and this to me is what striking we, I think any administration would have some difficulty in knowing how to address this situation and have some reluctance to be as welcoming as advocates would like them to be but Trump views this two up, pure lands of threat and bad faith ride like he,
CS, I mean first, it was syrian refugees, unlike in his mind, refugees from Syria is just a means for terrorists to infiltrate United States. He sees refugees from central american his mind. It is just a means for Emma S. Thirteen Rat infantry a gateway for terrorists from the Middle EAST, which he felt this gives. He gives no credence to the idea that, like actual Conditions in Central America are an important factor in this, or that people have real problems in their lives, suffer does not raise, because I, I think, a normal crazy universe. You would be struggling with these asylum seekers and finally rivals and I don't know actually with land on it, but part of what you would be trying to do is addressed the situation at home. Right, like you, be saying what Can the United States do to improve conditions
in northern Central America, you would be recognising that the United States is very tied in with Latin America bright and trade policy, economic development that the military that State department. You know, I don't think that weaken like wave a wand and like fix everything, that's wrong with Honduras, but he made since a lot of influence on the action of these things- also one you know, conditions in question- Baker and Mexico right the countries that are even closer to it and like there could be you know, like high level summits on that site? There could be a lot of work going into trying to make people feel secure and prosperous at home, trying to find ways to get. You know some number of people who we are going to help you could be doing something Riot America First but I mean it's like it's not even about like America, first or not, wait. It's it's the like inherent,
tension. Business of everything from does were where'd like women. Put in tariff son. You know mexican steel and and stuff like that, there's no view that the war old, could have some mutually beneficial. Collaborating workin on things that you know these, these families probably First choice in life is not too like go through it dangerous smuggling route through Mexico Chauvelin you have all of your view is that these people are essentially faking asylum, a grand there's, not a problem to solve in northern and Central America. Like understand, rears you're, coming at this from the view like. Will these people just want to come into the United stay, its languages have act. We had earners and right that, MRS in T veld like a problem to be solved. first place, no matter what the? U everyone and I get it, but I mean it's like this- is the problem that America
endlessly be saddled with- why? Because I do think that the the advocates sometimes get who plays a about the fact that, like there's a reason why people dont want just like an infinite flow of of central american migrants, but at the same time that it's like Trump give you You everything in life through the lens of racist paranoia, then, like you, can actually address. The issue. Like we keep hearing by Trump Bootleg yell at Secretary Nielson and meetings that, like this policy of like being mean, people, unlike treating children cruelly, is not like something. The price bomb of unauthorized immigration and it's like it's because it is a bad idea like this is now he is misunderstanding, the origins of the situation as are actually trying to solve it at all. shocked, but I wanna hear as arms or document immigration today here like what's up
yeah, let's say glancing. Another break is there's this big congressional congressional action. Maybe maybe that
HBO. Has a new drama series out, it's called succession that their data are sponsoring. I shall submit show its from Adam Mackay who's, the director of the big Short and from Jesse Armstrong, who was the better in the loop by these two great movies that that touch on questions of business and in politics there really great films, both of them. If you haven't seen them, should end. If you have see them, you know how exciting it is that their collaborating together with their working on succession. It's the story of the royal family to the owners of one of the biggest media companies and their family patriarch lovin. Besides he's not quite ready to tire his adult children fight to figure out where they sit on the board rooms and penthouse apartments in New York City succession, first power politics, money, family in a couple of corporate world succession here Sunday night at ten p m, and it's only any veto checklist
come has just launched a new show on Netflix, it's called explained in every observers at fifteen minute deep dive into one important topic. The episode that we saw this week is about K. Part is like korean popular music. It's all about how came up became a global phenomenon. It's not like the most wheezy topic, but it is fascinating. It's really interesting live where the sound comes from in the sort of different culture of music making and music production around cape of groups that got them idle groups in Korea, and it's like a fascinating indifference from how I think Americans think about bands and think about music, and it really helps explained like how they become so successful, not just in Korea. A globally is Austria's, like really funny really stylish, really great show I've always loved boxes. Videos on Youtube, Netflix has just like everything is bigger. Everything is even better. It's really cool is really interesting. Go find at a network search for vocs who can go straight to netflix dot com, Slash explained, tat. You are you're a person whose up in Congress, Syria are in touch with members that
from Party and like to be clear reasons. We kind of trying to keep stories straight. You know we ve talked about the so called missing children that are not missing. We ve talked about this separation policy, no more talk about other immigration policies think related to Dhaka that are starting right, around, I'm Yahkuk Duncombe is making a comeback. So third, racket of immigration stuff about Emily, have to go back to the first two Bacchus very brief we are seeing some democratic messaging bills around the separated children policies. That would kind of address some of the issues that you bringing up earlier about making sure that families can be involved in court proceedings and multilateral, not that, but the in immigration. Debate going on in Congress does not have to do with this as much as it has to do with Dhaka, which is a debate we have had on and off for the past year, ever since Trump last year announced that he was going
he's on setting the program and obviously, last February there was like this big excitement. The Senate was gonna, have this open debate about immigration and they were going to solve doc and every like? They would hold hands and sink, who buy and in the surprise to no one that does not happen and they addressed it nodded and- and they said it has been very quiet about it and now its mid term season and all these super vulnerable republicans in districts in California like week. We need to do so thing about education, or at least pretend like we're doing something about. Immigration and so in the house We are seeing this push by Jeff Denham who's, this California Republican, whose among the most vulnerable publicans and twenty eight here and has a forty percent to spanish constituency, and he is trying to force Paul Ryan's hand to have
migration debate on the house for and because parliament has been very reluctant to have an immigration debate, because it shows up the discord within their Publican party around immigration and he's like largely try to silences com. Station he's. Put all these caveats around like we have to have like. The majority of the republican caucus supporting one bill and Trump ass to be able to sign and obviate like all these conditions that make it very hard to have a bipartisan immigration bill. Go through a discharge petition going, and there are two hundred and thirteen signatories on undisputed discharge petition. They need to eighteen to force about so we're very, very close, I think they need to more Republicans, and there are three Democrats holding out so far. It's not like exactly clear to me. If those Democrat hold out will be flipped. I assume that the pressure will be on if it's only through Democrats, that
preventing this immigration debate, and the idea is that if this discharge petition goes through, there would be for immigration bills. That would get a vote on the house form. One would be this like ultraconservative good, lad bill, which DORA has written a lot about, and it basically goes far pass the scope of Dhaka talks, but enforcement. It's like ie, verifies all these policies that are like the kitchen sink of conservative immigration policy, and it has a support. like the Freedom Cacus side of Congress and is unlikely to pass Congress. It even the house even we're. Just Republicans were then there is like More moderate republican proposal. There is like just democratic proposal like Clean Dream ACT and then the last as after parliament's discretion, so there is still kind of in negotiations to find some kind of moderate republican bill that Paul Ryan will sign onto and dark.
Ok for Somalia started by congressional procedure. no no Gazeta legality is- and this is important because we normally talk about congressional procedure in the Senate, where they have a lot of procedural. Rang but in the house The way things go normally is that bills come to the fore. If the speaker of the house wants them to come to the fore, and that frequently means I mean an important nuance here. Is that, like bug, you need a majority vote for bill to pass A bill can have majority support, but not make it to the floor right become typical, it was dear, and in the seventies and in early eighties right in when I'm when Tipp O Neill was Speaker and Ronald Reagan was president. It would often be the case that legislation would pass. With a coalition of Republicans and a handful of conservative Democrats, but in the modern house.
The majority doesn't get, doesn't get role like that does. It become associated with Dennis Hester, but it actually predates em. They normally only bills that the Majority Party supports, get a vote weight so This has been relevant on immigration. A lot going back you. It was very relevant to the two old gang of eight bill which it passes, on it with a a partisan majority, but the bipartisan majority was like almost all the Democrats, plus some Republicans and that same vote count held in the house like. If it had gone to the floor, it seems like it would have passed, but it didn't go to the floor because it was only supported by minority of Republicans, but there's two loopholes to them one loophole is the speaker, hang bring whatever he wants to before. If you
to end. This sometimes happens like Vainer, particularly at the end of his speakership, would like deliberately put stuff on the floor. That most Republicans would vote against in order. void shutdowns and the other is the discharge process writes a banner famously in twenty thirteen refused to bring up the gang of eight bell because he said there wasn't a majority of the majority support for it, and so That's Paul Ryan is using that same excuse, and now there are republican thing. Well, we need to do something about this, so we, get two hundred and eighteen votes to tell you that we want to do something about this and we will force of The house reminiscences- and this is what a discharge shadows, what it is, but the deserve precision it's it's it's one of these weird norms, cases right we're like. theory like begins, who supported the gang of a bell, could have signed to discharge petition re, enforce it afore
but they did. There is a there is a strong norm in the: U S House of Representatives: again, signing a discharge, protect trade, so it is really common for members of the Majority Party like more vulnerable members to co, sponsor or say nice things about a by now, the party bell and like oh yeah, I support that I'm in the climate solutions carcass so or whatever, but not actually sign discharge, petition right leg, a very clear bucking leadership. Hey we want to do this and you are not listening to us. do you even know me out may be mere congressional trivia out of you know. Like the last time, we saw something like actually passed through the discharge to petition one of the last time the discharge petition process led The successful enactment of a bill was in the war was the Mccain. angled coming finance reform bill that the House bill had some different name, but they do
discharge petition does that years ago. It was a long time ago and I forget whether the petition actually got a majority or if it was just that there are, they were. Lend did at a certain point. Let me what, after having discharge petitions because leadership real, I mean it is, isn't it for leadership, it kind of seems like they're losing grasp of their conference. So if Our position is gaining a lot of steam. What happens is that leadership like right, I'm taking back control this I'll, put a vote on this or I will negotiate behind closed doors, so Paul Ryan is sought. Doing that right now. He is really kind of scrambling to talk with all the different parties in the past couple of weeks to create some kind of compromise Gratian Bell and not have all four bills come out on the floor. Big, He knows if all four bills come and the the outcome is likely going to be much more moderate Ben
He is going to be happy, but then there's a nuance like within enhances here right, which is that in the gang of thirteen case a bill had passed, the Senate Obama was strongly supporting it so had been a discharge petition and then the bill came to the fore. It would past and it would have been signed into law right, this case there was some by partisan proposals in the Senate. none of them had the sixty votes needed to overcome a filibuster, none of them. It's not. Really clear where the ministries is on any of this, but Donald Trump seems to be an immigration hardliner as per hour earlier discussions. So this stakes in this house, The gas are a little hazy to me right, like the discharge petition could like we think it passed the house and like who cares like? I don't.
Look what what's going on my leg? Why do Republicans good? Why not just give Jeff Denham the vote? I mean, I think, you could ve done correctly. I think a lot of that is happening now, but I just Paul Ryan was so concerned about, or my understanding is that you so concerned about showing this like open discord in the party, and in the Senate as well. He didn't want this to have to happen again and of course, now it's just half again but like he has a point that, like Trump likely, won't sign a dream. I guess he has a point, but the point seems like on the other side is like one just like people vote on the bill, because you know
Bruno was like for better or worse John banners. Sticking to the Hasta LA was like the only thing standing between the United States and this like EVIL Amnesty bell that would have increased wages, economic growth, reduce crime and like solved, instead of making us like Paul Ryan right now. declining to hold a vote on a bill It may be well our walk past the house and that price lay trump could just veto and Oh Paul Ryan, I mean you, can you can find it on the internet, but after Donald Trump was elected president grade there was like Paul Ryan Town Hall, where, like a dreamer, mom was like weep. about how she doesn't want Donald Trump to ruin her life? Paul Ryan. He promised did this wasn't gonna up and write like he used to be on Jeff, Denham side of diarrhoea. Horizons? History with immigration policy is very muddled. I mean he's gone back and forth it I didn't he's quitted yea and he's getting. I used
terrible. I'm sorry, I don't care, but why did well? have to get as an independent of all Ryan's honor. We don't have the answer here of what's going on in parliament's head, but I I do see it, though, gamble with tramp of wealth. We will pass something moderate. He would find that or editor I mean like that's the bet. The dancing close he was making last year when she went to Paul Ryan was like hey. Why don't you just vote on everything and see what happens and he was like motor? We're not gonna. Do that, knowing that there's the the chance that trap might just Whenever I might, then the story from Ryan Apologists was like onawandah no poor way and has no choice but to help ruin the lives of hundreds of thousands of innocent young people, because otherwise he would call him quote risk his.
bigger ship, which is a fucking, crazy bullshit, but like ok, so that was, if you are a real power, I am ruining lives to save his job. He's fucking quit his job right. Like What is he doing like why? How fanatical is power, by this I mean why it like it's. It's crazy like what what has happened I mean this is like I'm I'm on the hill of a lot less than two, but I could see you know the one of the cases being like not wanting like a messy fight over immigration going into the Yes like it helps Jeff Denham, but you have. Presumably he cares. You know, even though he is not going to be speaker next year. He presumably has like some feelings about the Republicans remaining in control of the house, swear, he is outgoing speaker. sees more of a downside to like a debate that has like a lot of different factions. That really shows a lot of these cracks in. There
looking party that we ve seen and like all these other debates on health care and other topics. I don't know I mean like I'm not important as if they are operating on the premise that immigrants and was so crucial to Trump getting elected. Then I could see a world in which the House passes a moderate immigration bill. Maybe the Senate passes the same bill. Something gets took trumps death. It could be not great for the consumer. They ve Trump supporting representatives to then say well, the thing we did on terms biggest campaign promise was not at all close to what troops it but the vulnerable members want to do this right. but that mean the vulnerable members are from districts, are don't like trot, but what use is it real cohesion policy? I like that's the I mean. That's, that's the big problem with Trump in their public and parties shows these divisions what's up with it,
I'm working on this, so they are desperately in want of a vote on the good lack bill, which is that conservative immigration policy- and they have wanted this for a very long time and Paul ryan- has promised them to whip the votes for this back when they were threatening to shut down the government over the the budget deal. I think that was in January. Break and they, when you talk to them there like it, was the weakest to lay messed with operation we have ever seen and You talked to leadership there like nobody wants to vote for the good luck like comes back and forth, and we have not obviously seen a vote on the good but also their training. Now is this leverage of the latter before the farm bill came up in the vote. You saw this weird, like I'd marriage of the Jeff Dunams of Britain that mark meadows of Congress, like teaming up against Paul Ryan to force, vote sunlight completely differently.
immigration legislation and like say that oh yeah we're on the same side, even though they have widely different pieces. So what's it what's the highlights of the good luck? It it will extend Dhaka, it does not offer a packs citizenship switches, extension of Dhaka. It has. The border It has a lot of like interior enforcement funding and so like really go, and then it has the if a verify measures have a really goes past, the four pillars of trumps immigration, I'll, see it like hips, all those and goes pass them and Republicans in the house. Don't even have you fight, support where this is a bill that has dissension and republican ranks, I guess per annum. We primarily because the interior enforcement and employer right type stuff that that that that that's invite.
And so I guess it later one remain up, but on the other hand, but what else are they gonna? Do I mean I like the more I tat Even conservatives. Now at this point or just telling me like a, why don't we just have doc border while just like throw little bit of money towards like some the age s bedside detention beds and like just get it over with like its reach. This point of everyone is just exam: like Adele. So that's and where the conversation is now supposedly. As I heard yesterday, the conversations with modern republicans and leadership are going well. I heard this quite off and it does not actually a new going well, but that's where we are on recess, and presumably I mean every one kind of conceit of this. This discharge petition is likely going to get all the signatories if nothing happens very soon. So I think in the week that they come back in the following couple weeks. We're gonna see some action,
so we're talking like next month, or so we re so the discharge petition with, if it passes, would likely of a vote in the end of June and if they miss that it would be the end of July. Those are the two Kenneth This. As I have said, this is the sort of hidden problem with Republicans having to survive, given up on having a policy agenda. Is that. No, I guess it's kind of like like little children right, it's like if you, if you give the back benchers nothing to do, they start coming up with discharge petitions and- various other everyone? You can't tell people like no like the floor time, is all being eaten up by, like our important plan, tat exactly. I mean these thoughts like their major piece of legislation. This year was the farm bill in that went down on the floor and now they're like We have nothing else to do so is have I mean this is happening in the Senate to like build capacity is leading has like effort to revive care, push on this and inside, which seems like a
here of all idea- frere, you know that, but you know not even to get into the policies, but going into a mid term will have a good reason to give Jeff Denham what he wants. A whole range of things like does. He want an embarrassing for fight about immigration, arrondissement, embarrassing for flight, but help anyone the last like major drama, the house was over the chaplet like clearly laid out a lot of things to do my best. after them is so explicit in his intentions here he says that it needs to happen before the mid terms, so there's no kind of shroud of mystery of her. Why? Why he's pushing this, and with that there should also be no shroud of mystery about having joined weeds Facebook group. We continue the discussion on this. And many other important and an influential topics, you know any ideas, advice, reject, Denham or Paul Ryan
alright outlines retiring usage, he just didn't arise, retirement I'm sure, has for young what? What should we do with his retirement? Where, with working visit campaigner things we having yeah jumbo John Maynard that now want to lobbyists its party and all the time. It sounds great anyway, no seriously, so thanks terrified, coming on and enlightening us about all this. Thanks to engineer Griffin, Tanner producer, Bridget Armstrong we'll be back onto
Transcript generated on 2021-09-12.