Do you have valuable diamond jewelry or a luxury watch that you are wearing? Why not? stood off and sell it with worthy turn. Pieces into investments that will grow or use your new found cash for their vacation. home, remodel you ve, been dreaming of war, is a selling partner that you can trust to get you the most money possible for your jewelry risk free now for a limited time. You'll get an extra one hundred dollars when jewelry cells for over fifteen hundred, all you to do is register at worthy dot com, slash garage, that's worthy dot com, slash garage, This episode is supported by progressive insurance, customers save an average of over seven hundred and fifty dollars when they switch in save visit. Progressive. dot com to get your car insurance quote

It takes about seven minutes: national annual average otto insurance savings by new customers surveyed in two thousand and nineteen potential savings will vary

well give a true grand rapids where, if you are, what are you doing? Things were listening? I'm your host naked with me, as always, is a man with a reminder that our energy is a pimple here. Is the cap Some people call me a podcast hose, but we know the truth. I'm architect it's gonna be

good to see you thanks for listing thanks for Tom today, we are referring eunuch room from pipe works brewing company. This is a double idea with three different kinds of hops and law sure rumours of guava and rain. I love it. Four and a half bottle caps out of five, Let's go down under for long distance cheers to Nathan west in from the sun, coast. Australia, not big. We like to jump luke sanctuary, point: australia! Next, up, here's a cheers to shelby friends would texas cheer. goes ghost palmer and saint Louis Missouri. Next, we have it here's to margie dean and parts unknown and last, but certainly not least, we have a big runs wants and please- and thank you that goes out to laurel finger. Everyone we just mentioned, went to true crammed gorazde com and helped us out what this week's beer five year ban. The van

be that we need a bar. You in beer run for everything. True, check out our website programme garage doc, make sure you sign upon the mailing list, and that is enough all ran. Everybody gather around grab a chair, gravel beer. Let's talk some true crab yet the sooner do car mercy and then did murdered, live alone up witnesses. We have a composite sketch run, have all hands on deck, with this case, to get answers for this murdered.

You're old. There are many eye witnesses, so there are many suspects, but we're gonna go over the most likely suspects here today, You nailed it captain. This is a situation where we have everybody. That's coming out of the woodwork wanting to help wanting to assist wanting to find justice for this little girl and for the girl's family, and the thing is, we ve said this a dozen times on this show in it rings. True, it rings true when you review these cases and no matter what year that they are from when somebody kills a child, abducts a child and kills them. It is not just a crime against the victim, the victim's family. It is ultimately a crime against an entire community, and that's exactly what you see here: people that just want to try to help in any shape or form that they can small or large, so we're gonna have a lot of eye. Witnesses were lotta people come for with some suspicions and, as you know,

captain when they were lisa composite sketch to the public, that's going to drum even more tips and more theories that will come about we're gonna, see hundreds of people interviewed we're gonna, see Dozens of people be rumour to be suspects, but at the end the day. There is only a couple of good suspects and we will start with the ones of the more prominent ones, the ones that were mentioned in the newspapers and will work Our way from the outside in let's say so- a name That will be familiar to a lot of our long time. Listeners is Robert Buell Robert Buell was a child killer. He was a rapist, he was a torturer. He was a horrible, despicable individual now he's arrested in. Eighteen, eighty, three so he's out and he's up the no good during the time frame that is seen as do caught is killed in nineteen o. Eight kelly, an processor is another name that our long time listeners my

recognize kelly and prosper was another eight year old girl who was abducted and killed two years later after a scene at the cop. That case remained unsolved for a long time. That case is interesting to see its case because it took place two years after, but just a short distance away, as seen it do. Cot was killed in upper Arlington, ohio and kelly and prosper was abducted from neighbourhood, which was near the o issue campus and columbus ohio. So, for a long time there were people that thought that maybe these two cases could be connected, because a c is still unsolved to this day and kelly and processors case took a long time to solve, and in fact, robber Buell was highly suspected and kelly and processors case fact so much so that they he was considered by many to be the prime suspect. Now we

hold you in our episodes, which we titled win. The demons came out. It was a for ports. is it. We did in january of twenty twenty one episodes, four hundred and fifty nine through four hundred and sixty two. We cover kelly and prosser's case, as well as the cases against albert buell, robber, Buell didn't have anything to do with kelleam processor and in fact, Columbus, p d and the individuals investigating robber, Buell and his crimes said that they could find no connection, nothing linking robert Buell to Columbus, ohio for one thousand nine hundred and eighty two or one thousand nine hundred and eighty. When kellyanne and were killed. We now know all of these- years later that it was in fact Harold worn drill who killed kelly and prosper in that. as announced in june of twenty twenty again, if you want me Information on those cases go back and listen to when the demons came out. This was the first person,

it was known to have killed somebody and be met. In the paper and beat we're being told the public disguise being looked at. this case in this other case, he's now being looked at in columbus cases after apprehend him in nineteen. Eighty three, of course that they move on from Robert Buell. In these two cases they can't move one from him. In other cases it took place in northeast ohio, though, because he was too busy up there to be down here. If you check out that four part series you're gonna find out that this guy is an absolute monster, at any time that you have a similar type victim he's gonna, be brought up. Specially of the crime happen early eighties in ohio, yes, instead of looking at somebody so far away. Let's look at somebody closer to the crime scene closer to where all of this went down

and we're gonna use that based off of a profile that has put together of the scene as killer now, this is directly from a website called long walk home way dot com, and I recommend that you go there and check out what they have done on seeing this case, because we are only going to be able to cover a fraction of what they cover on their website. They ve been looking at this case for a very long time, putting together very good work. on this case, and rather than reinvent the wheel here, I will read a portion of their website now. This is under chapter four, I told a brutal rapists and killer and upper arlington, and it says almost immediately there you a pity believed a siena's killer was local to upper arlington. He the key color is very familiar with the area. If he's not

I'll, go he lives very close to the area. This is based off of statements given by the upper Arlington police chief in june of nineteen. Eighty two: newspaper just think about how early similar that sounds too the words from Doug carter and the delphi case. This belief was bolstered by two psychological profiles: the police received in june. live. One thousand nine hundred and eighty the profiles describe the young man seventeen to nineteen years old, who lives within two mi of the scene of the slang. This is based off of a retired new york city, homicide, detective, who prepared one of these profiles. The thing here is additionally and it did not take long for the upper Arlington police department to believe that a scene as murder was the same man who attacked the nine year old girl on may seventh, nineteen, eighty, that other attack that we reference to couple times and

police and the media noted the following similarities between the two crimes, a scene of do cot was an eight year old girl of brown hair, the victim in the seventh attack was a nine year old girl with brown hair. Both crimes happened at similar times of the day when both girls were walking home from school. The crimes occurred just slightly more than two miles from each other. According to one account, both crimes occurred within a half mile of rules thirty, three and forested areas. Similarly, another account stated both crimes happened in large, open areas, sheltered from view and less than a half block from route. Thirty three route. Thirty three is also that riverside drop. Both girls were choked or strangled a red ten speed. Bicycle was seen in the vicinity. both crimes, both girls were near their homes when the crimes occurred, police believe both girls were attacked near the street.

and then move to location several hundred feet away. Both attacks were sexually motivated and unsuccessful. Attempt was made to assault the may seventh victim and a seemeth was raped. The description and sketch of siena do cats murder was similar to the sketch from the may seventh attack. Because of these similarities, the chief of police said the best suspect police huh, haven't. Seen at slaying is an unknown man who is also being sought for the assault. May seventh of a ten year old girl who was attacked if she returned home from tremont elementary school, this murder is going to disrupt the local landscape and we're going to get other departments involved, one of them being the f b I and we're going to be able to get a profile

of who they think the killer is yeah. There are several done over the years we have the f b, I with probably the most definitive profile, which is received by upper Arlington police in nineteen. Ninety, according to this profile, is seen as kill there was a loner in his early twenties with few friends was from a family with a strict, abusive father and protective mother, had one or more sisters who were more successful and received more recognition from their parents failed in school or work because he was not accepted by fellow students and employees may have sought. Treatment for depression has attacked others, but not necessary,

we killed them, is physically strong and tends to choke or hit his victims. What makes the most sense to me- and I don't know if you agree with his kernel but to put together both of these profile, so we look for some of these characteristics in this individual, but also local law enforcement. Believes this person is local within two miles. Miles of the murder, see yeah. I'm gonna go just beyond that two miles there, but keep in mind. We also have, if in fact is seen as killer and the attacker form them Seventh attack are one and the same. Then we actually have crime scenes that our couple miles apart anyway, so that we have to create a radius around both of those crimes scenes which will balloon us a little bit further than just that straight up to me, I'll radius from a siena's murder scene. What we have here, what we just reviewed is to me You know we ve been told this by John douglas when you go into

profile a killer really the best way to do that is you have to profile everything you have to profile the killer. You profile the victim, you profile, the area and the situation. Well. Here when I review those profiles, I'm seeing two different things: one where we have somebody profiling, the actual crimes that the crimes that took place in coming up with an assessment and a hypothesis based off of what they see from the known fact, of those crimes, the other. What we have is a psychological make up of what our killer is or who are killer is, in his background and so we want to look for somebody that fits the psychological profile, but also fits the physical proximity profile that was put together and the other cases, so to do that, unfortunately, we have to bring up a disgusting individual that we ve. Never, I don't believe we

talked about him before on the show ya, don't keep making fun of barbara publicly and that would be I'll killer David, elliot pent, him David, only a pen is a serial child killer and, unfortunately, his address at the time when a scene it do cot was killed, was roughly four to five miles from the crime scene now this individual, if in fact he did kill a scene of it likely, would be his first murder because his murders all took place later now. The thing that scared, the hell out of me about the date of the attack on a scene of is around the same time David, Elliot Pennington, who was in the military, was shipped off to korea. Well, why does that scare me scares me for

reasons one it could take him completely out of the area and he's not here. He did not have the physical ability to be here to commit the crime. So then he's not a suspect. The flip side of that coin, is a very dangerous sick. Individual knew he was going away to a place, far away for long period of time and likely fantasized about these types of crime for a long period of his life before he started, committing them you ve seen an opportunity to hey. I can act, on some of these fantasies and guess what, within days, armada dodge baby I'm on the other side of the planet. Now I could not confirm the exact date of when he was transferred overseas. That would be very simple: now his physical make up his psychological make up, I should say, does fit with the psychological profile of siena. Do cots kill, patent was a loner pen did,

in a situation where his sister was more successful than he was in fact he was held back of great, and this did I want to drop out of high school because of be embarrassing if I'm in in great as my younger sister, he was raised by a mother and a step farther and again their address, very close to this area, but unfortunately, we can't pinpoint exactly when he was transferred. His crimes are almost identical to one another, his future crops he would abduct a child and his vehicle take them too other location where they would be killed, solve I'm picking up what you're putting down what you're saying is. If he is responsible for this murder for do cots murder, this would actually be his first murder, based on his known criminal acts

levity, that's correct! The thing is, I believe that this method that he used he used a time and time again and probably every single time, and a large portion of that statement is true based off of his known criminal activity. We know it be fact where I have a problem with him being a suspect is I see some movements of the real suspect of of of what I think, the suspect and who I think this aspect is, and the movements of the vote don't, don't really ring true with david pensions, other crimes and murders, because I said this here before captain- and I say it again: I have never seen, sexually motivated child abduction and murder, where the perpetrator comes into an area removes the victim

and kills them or brings them back and then kills them and leaves them in the same area where their abducted from we can go based off of witness statements and the scent dog that traced her movements that day that she was roughly killed in very close proximity to wear the abduction took place right. It would make any sense for David pendant to come into this area of doktor and then bring a right back. He would have taken or elsewhere, dumped or in an area where there was nobody out there where he can be seen. His vehicle can be identified while this location, where she found it. It's very strange. Anyways, because of its very close to a major road when just a block away if this person was bloke when and knew the area well lived within two miles within a couple blocks is a little bit of a wooded area you

thank you think of their wanna leave her body somewhere. Maybe that's where they would leave yet again. It doesn't make any sense to me for anyone, including David Anne, elliot pen, to have a vehicle and be able to abduct some one and then take them with Him only to return them later it just it just doesn't ring true, that's not typically how these crimes are committed, now I know I said the same statement in our land, harper episodes and someone said well what about the lindbergh baby That's not a sexually motivated abduction. That was a money motivated abduction where the killers were idiots and dropped the baby off of the ladder. So it's not anywhere in the same neighborhood of the same type of crime David Elliot. These crimes are in the sea neighbourhood, but he is not from

same neighborhood and would never have returned a victim back to the neighbourhood in which he took the victim, so I think we have to look at summits visuals that a are closed, and proximity to the scene do caught and the crime scene and also individuals or an individual that may have not had the same means may not have had a view. Well to transport the victim. And that is why she is found so close to where the abduction of blacks as a true crime garage listener. You know the world can sometimes be a scary, place,

but no matter what happens out their home should be the safest place. There is simply safe is advanced whole home security that puts you your home and your family's safety First simply safe offers comprehensive protection against intruders, burglary and expensive home hazards like flooding and fires. What twenty, four seven professional monitoring simply saves agents action. The moment a threat is detected, dispatch police or first responders in an emergency if you're, not home or can't be reached simply safe uses terry video verification technology, so that during agents, can visually confirm the threat in order to get higher priority nine, when one dispatch monitor Plans are affordable price, one dollar a day with no long term contract or hidden fees. It's this

surely system named best home security. By u S, news and world report a third year in a row you can cut. Might the perfect system for your home in just a few minutes at simply they ve dot com. Slash garage go today, and claim a free indoor, security, camera plus twenty per and off, with interactive monitoring again that simple save dotcom slash garage now a word from our sponsor better help. It's my favorite spot It's the one. I use most often it's what has changed my life so dramatically mental is so important and something that we need to be discussing every day. You know they invest time you yourself and taking care of yourself. I've tried. In many ways to make my mental health better and with better help. My therapy is: look it's the best thing. I've done for mental health period,

our hope is online therapy that offers a video phone or even live chat only therapy sessions. So if you don't we to see anyone on camera. You don't have to as much more affordable than in paris. their pe and is available worldwide, better help, will assess your needs and can match you with your own accredited therapists, an under forty eight hours visit better help, dot com, slash garage and joined the over two million people like me, who have taken, charge of their mental health with the help of experience professional, our listeners get ten percent of their first month that better help dark slash garage, that's better. Each li l p, Dot com, slash garage, I love better help. You're gonna love better help. I know you will check out better help d calm. Slash garage today

arrival. Sloppily bays juice the guys wanted to. Do me a solid. Do me a big, solid, go to spotify and look up our show true crime garage. You can listen to the podcast on spotify, but you can also follow our music as well, so you can go and follow our profile. Just good, spotify and search true crime, garage and oh pop up as a podcast or artist go to the artist page and click follow. That would be lovely and smooth e smoky. You can jam the garage music the jammer in your car. How about that? I packed the case here. Captain we're gonna move rather cos

because we got a lot of ground to cover here in the second half of today show, and that is because we're gonna get into some very good suspects now. Why are they very good suspects because they fit some of the physical evidence that we know to be in this murder case now, the first individual, his name is brett stroessner. And I've heard a pronounced struck, nerve sweetener. I say potato, you say potato for this for the sake of argument: let's continue with stronger, I say potato so brent, stroessner, he gets onto police radar because of a tip actually a couple tips they come in this. Hey! You might want to look at this guy he's been behaving very strange since the murder took place. now, interestingly enough, at the time of the murder. He lives

now a mile and a half from the corner of wall, thumb and hillside. So he's very close and proximity, he fits the proximity of the first profile and he fits the profile, the the psychological profile that we see as well, and this is how he gets onto the radar of police. The night of the murder. Bread is at a bar with some of his friend This bar is near the ohio state university campus and at the bar he seen crying or weeping. and he told other people at the bar that he was afraid to go back to his apartment that he could not go home because they are after me and when he is finally return to his home vi friends vehicle. He says he does not want to enter his apartment because again they are after me.

So we have an anonymous phone call that makes its way to the upper Arlington police department. There is telling them about this suspects behaviour on that night, wisest guy, acting so weird, so strange, so paranoid the night after murder takes place in the area, keep in mind the safe area where they don't have. They don't commonly have murders taking place, but you said he lives within the vicinity of what the profile says that this killer possibly could live in what's this guy's on the radar we have I witnessed, is coming forward same. He could have been there. As early as two p m in the direct area of the crime scene and keep in mind here. When we talk about crime scene, there are multiple crime scenes and and doctrine and murder case right. So we have the crime scene of where the abduction took place. We know that there was some type of sexual assault in this key

So we have a location, another crime scene where that assault place and then later we have the scene of where the body is located. So we have Malta crime scenes that we're dealing with, but we also have we illnesses that are saying this guy could have been as close as the corner and which I believe if that she was later abducted on this, same day that she was abducted. So now we got this. Guy who's behaving oddly and we can in the area with some different witnesses, but we also learn another interesting fact about this individual. He owns a red, ten speed, bicycle and its reported that At some point in the summer of nineteen eighty he decides to quit. Writing it. He doesn't want to write it anymore. According to some of his friends, statements that are later given to police

which is similar to the idea that a killer will change their appearance. Maybe they shave their beard, member they grow appeared, maybe or of a vehicle, is involved in a crime. Hey they stop driving that vehicle. They sell it. They get a new one to get a paint. Job is pretty common as well by our suspect, Brett stroessner on june fifth, nineteen eighty. So this is two days after the homicide he is out with some friends and enemies again dropping these strange lines of are the cops coming after me. If these capstone queer quit harassing me, I'm going to kill them, and then he goes home to his home, his parents home actually that same night, and he takes his parents, view and then he fleas the area driving north toward cleveland, the following morning at seven, forty five, a m police

find him stranded on the side of the road in this vehicle in willoughby. Oh hi is losing his mind. He is Tom people pay poor. After me, he takes his parents car. He heads north to willoughby. That's a good two and a half hours away. If that's not suspicious, I dont know what is when we were viewed ed camper and when we were viewed beat, kay both of them said the same thing about their early murders that when they first committed em, they thought just within me, the police would be on their way that they would hear sirens everybody knew exactly what they did who was guilty and that they Gonna be on their way to lock them up as quickly as possible, and in both cases we know that didn't happen. In fact, at camper called the police after he killed his grandparents, This behaviour is not, unlike that, where this guy was involved,

then something any saying that everybody that's willing to listen? I think the cops are after me. I think the police are harassing me. They are gonna get me. I can't go back to my house fleas, the area to get out of dodge when the Please find him and I'll read from the description of what went down here in willoughby ohio, because you can't make this stuff up. The truth is stranger than fiction. My friends, so the report from the long walk home reads as follows: on the morning, of june. Six, at approximately seven forty, a m police received a call from a nearby sonoco station that a car was in a ditch on the saint clair exit between lost nation and airy road. Upon arrival, the first patrolman discovered

one thousand nine hundred and seventy nine cadillac in a ditch with brett straightener lying across the front seat after he wakes up the subject. I guess this is from knocking on the window. He then spread to open up the door or the window to the vehicle brentwood, not open, either in fact heat. I to flee again he's trying to start the vehicle, so he can get out of this location get away from this police officer. At this time the police officers vehicle was in a position that would block any type of escape from bread as he's in the vehicle now we have the patrolman who's, trying to get the vehicle unlocked, so he can get to bread. The driver at this time the suspect, produced a hypo, syringe her hypodermic needle, I guess and took out his testicles and began stabbing the syringe

to them sounds like a delightful afternoon. At this time we have another patrolman who's, trying to break the window of the vehicle with his night stick and he eventually a successful. Now we have our suspect Who begin screaming and fighting with the officers it takes about for officers to bring this guy in right. They spraying with mace that has no effect at all. Eventually, after a real brouhaha there on the side of the road, they eventually apprehend brett stroessner and they take him in two custody and they're going to have a whole list of charges to hit this guy with right, he's assaulted. sickly, all four of these police officers and he's all in possession of this hypodermic needle there's all kinds of things going on here, but he assaulted his test. Now. What we have happen is the up early,

police department they're going to send two of their detectives up to interview Brad stratyner, who is sitting at the lake county sheriff's office, is probably not sitting too bullet This mind, you is, after a statement from one of the correction officers at the jail that says that he overheard scrutiny. Say quote: I killed an eight year old girl, so we have the upper Arlington police, detective they're, asking questions to bread and, during the course of the questioning, the detectives tell him. We are simply trying to figure out where you were on june. Third, one thousand nine hundred and eighty two which his response is, I didn't hurt anyone. ok, they're, not asking him about the murder. They ve not told him that they are there in view. The gaining a murder or an abduction there simply asking him where

he was on that day in his response is, I did not hurt anyone. This aspect is what I like to call whack had do, but if we took the time to go through every crazy statement he made we'd have to do like a six part series. On this I mean the sky is a real. mackadoo air and if you were view his statement and his interview with police, we learned a few things he admits to owning a red bicycle. He asked admits that he knows where frankenstein's cave is located. In fact, he says that he had been there on multiple occasions and without giving a pin pointed time here, a basically admits: being in the general area of where the crime took place on june. Third, nineteen, eighty,

so we have a guy, that's behaving oddly. He puts himself near or at the crime scene on the day that the crime took place. This is a good suspect and he doesn't look unlike the sketch the composite that they've already released to the public. We also have eye witnesses that say they see somebody matching his description, In this area around the time that a seemeth went missing, so this guy's a good suspect. Now we need to go back to the timeline. We talked about the timeline there was put together by active time. Let's expand that timeline out days. Rather then just the minute by minute the detective time gave us. So, let's go to september twenty seventh nineteen eighty. This is just a couple: more

after the murder. On this date, we have another attack and abduction attempt that takes place at all in tangier commons apartment complex, which is not terribly far from the athena duke crime scene. In this situation we have a victim who was pulled from her bike. The suspect attempted to drag her toward a secluded field, but the suffering drop the victim and ran away when a passer by saw the abduction and scream for help the victim assistance.

police. By having a sketch made of the suspect, the sketch was very similar to the sketch provided by the witness to the scene. It do cats aspect. Okay, we have two then back up to the first attack. They may seventh nineteen eighty attack that took place just one month before seen its attack on this day, an unidentified victim took the bus from her tree, my elementary school at the end of her school day. After, exiting the bus on canterbury lane. She started on her walk home with another female friend, a boy or a young man, riding a red bicycle passed by them back and forth a few times when the female friend eventually had to start walking in a different direction to her own home, the eleven you're. A girl was suddenly attacked and strangled into unconsciousness. However,

She was never rate when she regained consciousness. The suspect was gone. It is believed that the suspect was scared off by the victims friend or someone else, I've all we've seen reports of state. He may have been scared off by a neighbor dog. It's a pretty scary to imagine to know that. There's this horrible people out there correct. So one of these attacks takes place before a scene. It's attack in the other takes place after word and situations police have reason to believe that the attacker was scared off now in the september. Twenty seventh attack

an individual named Robert Chris winchester, was convicted of the attempted kidnapping. Robert Chris Winchester was sentenced to three to ten years at mansfield, prison and ordered to undergo psychiatric evaluation. Let's go back to the may. Seventh, one thousand nine hundred and eighty attack that crime went unsolved, but the victim of that crime picked out robert Chris winchester from a up related to the september twenty seventh nineteen eighty abduction case winchester was never charge or prosecuted. For that case, however, we must note that the victim picks him out of a line up. So we have this robber chris Winchester, who was convicted of a very similar crime. They take.

Place just months after a scene, a smarter and also the number one prime suspect in a crime that took place in a very similar crime that took yes and a similar location. Just one month before has seen its attack. Maybe we could get stronger to take a syringe to this guy's testicles as well. So here's what the problem men are being captain. You hear the old statement from the old football coaches and say when you have to quarterbacks, you have ro quarterbacks right This is a similar situation, but the flip side of that, where june. We have one suspect that they like a lot. This bread scrutiny will now in september. Or of nineteen eighty. We have another suspect that they like a lot. This robert Chris winchester, and, oh as it turns out. He too owns a red bicycle. He too matches the description of a man or men. In there

want to use early twenties scene in the area of the athena do caught crime scene on june. Third, nineteen, eighty. So now we have to really good suspects. The thing here is that doesn't mean that they cancel each other out or that one should cancel out the other Does what is later learned is that these two, to school. Together they grew up together. They lived on the same, street. They were neighbors, it's not out of bounds. To make the assumption that these two were friends, we know that they knew each other. Is there a chance that the two of them were up to no good together on the day that is seen as was abducted? They both match the description they both have. A criminal hiss three winchesters crimes, almost mere the duke caught abduction and they're both were, Leave to possibly be in the area

so one of these suspects as deranged other suspected pedophile very possible, because these two individuals live close together that they would hang out together some point not only that we have winchester who was convicted of a very similar crime and prime suspect in another crime that almost mirrors as seen us abduction. Now we have straightener who is blabbing to everybody that he at least believes that he is guilty of something he telling everybody that the police or after him, he

when he's in lock up that he killed an eight year old girl. So I'm starting to see something that maybe the police didn't fully see. I think that they did eventually, but maybe not nineteen eighty. I think some of the confusion in some of the problems with this case and with this investigation is it it just wasn't so simple: it wasn't as simple as man, abduction Rural kills girl fleas the area. I think that we have a situation where we may have more than one individual involved and because they won't rat on each other or because the day may even help each other former fashion on these on covering up this crime that it's not so easy to detect. What exactly happened that day. Both these aspects are good suspects, both live close to the crime scene, both fit the profile in different ways, and-

not cooperative with police. The other problem here to captain is we have bread who seems to have in the area based off of eye witness accounts and he puts himself in the area at the time of the crime and then the flip of that is. We have winchester who again not cooperative but is coming up with potential alibis for his whereabouts that day and none of them check out. So he's lying about his whereabouts on that day. But why would he do that? Clearly, he's got something to cover up one of the things that you are talking about earlier as the eyewitnesses c in the red bike. So then, please have this once I spoke to linger while he has read by given.

Suspect he has read bike well at some point. In my life when, as a child, I had probably two bikes, one was polio order bike that maybe I outgrew and then cut a mountain bike or something like that. But read is an uncommon color for a bicycle, so I'll start to try to paint a picture of what I think simply happened on then afternoon within that for our time window that we started off with on yesterday's episode, I want to be clear: here I am not the first to come up with a theory that is similar to this. There are a lot of good people that have done gangbusters work on this case, most of them the people from the

long walk home website. This is a theory. My theory is similar to theirs and two other theories that have been recently suggested and when you look at the crime scenes along with the physical evidence that we have, you will see that this theory carries some weight. First off, let's go back to seize route Does she was taking home when she got onto wacom road? She would have simply made a right to try or north up malvern and go directly to her home However, when the scent dog try to retrace scenes footsteps, the dog went south, instead of turning right onto malvern meda, laughed and and went south of them now either

more south of that later. Some of scenes papers from school her umbrella were fought, were found in this general area. This is a concealed area a wooded area, forest area, forested area I leave that they found her belongings there, because instead making a right onto malvern something made. Change her direction and I believe, that's when tried to grab her. Somebody tried to grabber started to approach her. She didn't like situation and she turned and she started to head south away from her home. simply to get away from whoever this was she's out by herself. I think that at some point she gets chased down and where she is apprehended by these individuals is where we find some of her belongings later. I think that we

probably you're dealing with more than one abductor, and I don't think that our abductor had a vehicle he may have had a bicycle. His part, crime may have had a bicycle as well. One could have been on foot hard to say, but we have several witnesses that see a red bicycle near this crime scene. now the reason why I don't think that the abductor had a vehicle is because, if they did, they simply would have taken her put her in the legal and drove to a location that would provide whatever privacy that they wanted, for whatever they intended to do that would make Since, if we would find her body later at a location, for from her neighborhood yeah. I agree, but what we do know takes place. Is it within that for our window at the end of it, her body is found

her neighbourhood and actually just about a hundred feet me, a football field away from where I believe she was abducted, while Would anybody place? Are there we? oh, that she was killed at that location where she was found based off of all of the police reports and the police findings. But what I think happened here, captain. There were always rumours there are always stories, they were always theories there. Maybe she was attacked in that fight, first, it area in that wooded area may She was attacked on the other side of thirty. Three of riverside drive the problem with that, but those theories is it if she was attacked in those areas and assaulted in those areas the individual who decided to kill her would have just killed her and simply left her.

there. There would be no need to transport the victim anywhere its we adding to the risk level of the criminals behavior. I agree because once you go to move that victim, more eye, witnesses could see you, but what we do have is witnesses that say that we see may have seen a male white carrying an unconscious girl or an injured girl, or an injured little kid Think what what we have here is a situation where she was attacked. She was attacked and grabbed and transported to a secluded air. But then secluded area was either a home or someone's back yard, and I. Believed that it was probably a home very close to where she was abducted, from the reason why somebody would then transport her body later is because she is attacked in.

Area assaulted in an area where they needed to get her out of there. We ve done, about on the show so many times what a big problem it is for the criminal to have an abduct victim alive or otherwise in their vehicle. That's a big problem for the criminal. It's also big problem to have an individual abduct alive or otherwise in their home or backyard, and so, when the search Are they going down foreseen and people started looking for somebody or some bodies new? I have to get this out of here and get this away from my property or from this area that I took her to or the property that I took her to why, because all roads led back to me or my help her, and I think unfair finally, what happened here captain is. I dont think that the police were wrong. It,

no obvious that, unfortunately she was killed where she was found. I agree, but we ve also, This pontio times on the show, and we were viewed the comments in the statements of victims who survive and attempted murder, as well as murder, those who say you know what it's more difficult to strangle, someone to death, then you realize, or I have attempted to strain Well somebody and then eventually they came to. I think, wherever she was assaulted, someone strangled her and believed that they had successfully killed her. She was then moved away from that person's property or their friends property, with the attempt to caen seal her body by removing it from that location, to try to put her placer inside that covert to conceal the body

when she was placed on the rocks before they could move her in there. She wakes up. She comes to they weren't successful, strangling and it was in that moment they were individual picked up that rock and unfortunately they killed this little girl animals. The crime scene suggest a couple things. one. We would learn that there is scientific physical evidence that proves that stronger was invite but he had contact with the victim on the day that she was killed that places him with the victim that places him at the crime scene. Now there were footprints that were found in this area, these footprints

Do not eliminate or other suspect, winchester from being at the crime scene, at the murder scene, However, that would probably leave us with a potential third or fourth perpetrator. If these two guys did this together, they to take her somewhere near by and they had, or somewhere that they would want to not leave her there and therefore the most sensible, reasonable answer. The most logical answer would be that they took her to someone's home to someone's property near by. and probably rather close to where she was ultimately found just before seven thirty p m. So your thought is that is at least these two individuals may be possibly one more individual involved and this crime with the way that the movements

of the victim and her belongings where there found, and then some of the physical evidence that we know to be true in this case. Yes, that's what I see here as being the most likely scenario to play out again. I think where the problem was is that we have a crime scene that the police just did not stand. They didn't understand that we might be looking for two perpetrators or more. We didn't understand that she may have been moved to other too their location. They understood that that's their own words, so we believe that she was moved elsewhere bright, but again why You move to a vehicle if you move to vehicle you're, simply going to be parked on the side of the road somewhere in this neighborhood. I feel like that's awfully difficult to happen, and I also feel like the best suspects per the newspaper reports of nineteen eighty and even after that, both of these guys,

on bicycles and so didn't have the means to be using a vehicle we all have statements from other witnesses later that would come forward, saying things like what one of the suspects that we named his bike was seen in a garage and a home. That was within walking distance of where the body was found yeah. Well, you look at a map. You like brow, that's extremely close. There are witnesses, it came forward. This said, did one of these specks, if not both of them were hanging out with somebody that lived very close to where the body was found. So when you pile all of this information, and you look at totality of it all put together, it starts, you start to see a picture, and you start to see how this thing could have played out, and it's a rather simple answer again, I'm not the

I want to come up with this, and I know that my theory is not exactly spot on what others that have been released. But that's why you'll want to review some more information at the long, walk home you a dot com and form your own opinion. Take a look at the maps, take a look at the physical evidence or just listen and believe everything we say that works to with all this time. With all this evidence with all these eye witnesses, with all this demand for answers, why don't we have some I locked up and how responsible for these crimes. This case gets complicated, and I know that there are people out there that say: hey the cops really screwed, this one up, that was even the title of a newspaper article that said experts, say police, bungled this case, and maybe they did maybe they did. I can only tell you what I have seen. What I see is,

a rather complicated case where there were several people involved, that it would be difficult to be difficult to figure out that there were multiple people and of its kind. It reminds me a lot of the Martha moxley case where had all of these years go by decades. Go by this girl's kill. In our own neighborhood. There were multiple people that were suspected and in and when you really put the pieces together it's a much simpler case. Then you would think right. When you look at sea knees case ivy Like it's the same thing once you know all of the pieces, and them in parts it actually a much more simple case than it would appear on june. Third, Nineteen in june fourth, one thousand nine hundred and eighty and june fifth, one thousand nine hundred and eighty they're going to be things that the officers that the detective saw at this location at the crime scene that just didn't make sense

and it made it hard for them to put together the complete sore. Why didn't they make sense? Well as there were more people involved than they thought, and once you put it together now it seems like it's it's pretty clear but let's add to the fact some other complexities that take place. In this case, you have one of the main suspects brits rooted her who committed suicide for years and sir, the duke of murder and, yes, he was in an out of jail for some time. He continued to have problems, but also, play, he jumps out of a window. I believe it was the sixth floor at the wires, the aid building downtown columbus high enough in nineteen. Eighty four. They fly find the door to his room locked the window wide open

his body outside on the ground. They don't find anything of importance to this case, you know when, when their research and to this when law enforcement are responding to this call you their hoping that he rode out a written confession before he jumped out the window brain or find evidence, of the victim or that crime or other crimes in his room that didn't happen. Well, then, the problem then becomes it. One of your prime suspects is now gone. He wasn't cooperating before, but now you're going zero cooperation of out of this individual. No more balls at winchester ended up serving time for that september. Nineteen eighty attack- and he did over a year, I believe about two years or so on that attack, obviously He's not cooperated as well, and there

maybe another individual or to out there. played a role in this and we don't have all the facts from them. Either it's We truly a sad case for the neighbourhood for the dew caught family. There has been. No justice in this case, and I wouldn't go so far to blame police had a monster not taken this girl's life or monsters. We would never have this discussion to begin with. I think that there were some people that work very, hard on this case and cared a lot about a scene it and her family and tried and did everything they possibly could. I don't see a situation where the police put on blinders. They called in the f b. I they sent physical evidence to the f b. I they asked for

people with better resources for their help, and, unfortunately I think it's just one of those cases that I am not very confident that this thing get solved or solved the right way, time. There's a crime where we think there's multiple people involved, some likely that somebody's going to talk or going to hear rumours rumblings. But in this case we have one of the suspects he's dead. One of the suspects is incarcerated. If there's another individual, then what happened to them. But I think, because of those reasons, is probably why Having heard more rumours about these people being connected, as you heard in these episodes, do cots. The family are wonderful people there, some of the kindest bravest people than I have seen

specially based off of alexander, do cots statements in the months after his little daughter was killed. There's been no justice for the dew cots, there's been no justice for the people of this neighbourhood and is something that I hope changes, and we can only hope and pray that something happens There is a break in this case to lead to some form of justice, that I, along with many other people, think of a scene at this time of year. Every year as we are letting out school, getting ready for the summer break. We think about her. We think about her case and we think about the things that could have been done. Differently in this investigation. We also think about the suspects and people that are capable of this type of horrific crime scene. He is not to be forgotten. The duke cuts are not to be forgotten. This crime is not to be forgotten. This is something that I hope stays

with every body. Until this thing can be solved in one day, somebody can be locked up and put away for what they did along. Time ago. yes, so much for the support in keeping the lights on, I love you like. I love my ducas Colonel. Do dreary recommended reading. We do captain. Week we are recommending that everybody go to the long, walk home, you a dot com website. It's a website dedicated to the case that we covered this week and show your poor- read what they have their they have more than we could cover on this case this week and also support the scene. It do caught project,

and you can find, that information at long, walk home, you a dot com, and we will have that listed on our recommended page at true crime. Garage dot com until next week be good, be kind and don't the.