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the. welcome to true crime garage where you are whatever you are doing. Thanks for listening, I'm your hosts, nick and with me, as always, is a man that is cleverly disguised himself as responsible adult p. Is the captain thank you You think you it's good to be seen, and it's good to see. You thanks for listening thanks, but on a friend

tonight- and I we are drinking call classic by goose island, brew house and beautiful, beautiful toronto, canada garage great three and a half bottle caps out of five. This is a very smooth easy drinking, dark, colored beer, a german inspired logger with notes of bread, honey and poor hops, and today's beer was brought to us by these fine friends of the garage. First up. We have geese all the way over in holland and big shots of tony and crown point indiana next up sending out some peace and love to rob and in writing, pennsylvania and a big. We like exhibited kelly and little rock arkansas next up. Let's go to the great state of taxes and say thank you and a load of Sarah from fort worth and last but not least, a shot the mandate sweetwater taxes thanks, everybody fulfil, not the fridge for this week show if you want to help us out with those shows for next week the go to true crammed around

dot com and click on the donor and another great way to support the show is: leave us a five star review on itunes. It really does help the show and that's enough for the Everybody gather round grab at share grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime. The our eye. We continue on to look into the untimely death of berry and his wife, honey sherman, who were killed or possible murder suicide inside their home in toronto, canada. Just lately fear. So this is a recent case and we know what these captain that a lot of times they have

solve them before you're, going to get a lot of information yeah. It's frustrating this one has been a very interesting case to look into because of the possibilities here seem endless. Really, when you look at this Because we're talking about a very successful man who and as we know you know, says, success does not come without its hurdles along the way, there's a good chance that this man had to step on a lot of step on a lot of, To get to where he was in life, and we all know that can aggravate and anger people creating an he's along the way on your road to success was company was involved in a bunch of lawsuits, and he almost seem to be proud of that in some. The interviews that I saw with him he'd go and all these papers in my office, these are lost, it is an awesome. Well, in one thing that you and I had a brilliant discussion on. On Friday about was one key factor in this. This invest.

Creation that came out several weeks in the investigation was the thought of the lock and what we mean by that is that when a home is listed when it's for sale, the real tours were often use a lock box to give them access to the home. And when we have a scenario here, where we reportedly will, I'm sorry repeatedly have police on record say stating that there no forced entry into the home. While then one has to speculate. Could this lock box have been involved? Could this be the reason and for those of you not for me, you're, usually the way that this system works is that there is some kind of loch box that his position around the front door on the front door and the real can use a code to open up this box and inside. There is a key which allows you into the home now captain I

several different realtors and we spoken to a few of them over the course of this last week, and it appears to me that these lock by boxes are not all identity dented cold. They don't all work the same way. Some of them have temporary odes. I have also seen some online shit chatter that some people speculated that some of might share a code, and we ve come across this, Other scenarios on the show when we talk about safes and getting into locations and key pads and things of that nature? well, it seems to me that there is some kind of system where the real estate agent has to contact summit to get the code, so that would be on record, there's also large boxes that they can hold their phone up and by using an app they can get into the lock box again. That would be something on record. Does that.

tell the lock box that they are in close proximity to the lock box, or is it? How did you know how that works?

well I've seen my m looking for a home now, so I can I've seen my real id or hold their phone up to the lockbox and something happens and or or or they're sent a number through the app or but again there's ways to track all of this. So I think one of somebody used this as a way to enter the house, and there would have been some kind of communication on how to get that number now going to put something out there. That maybe people will then call while here comes captain can conspiracy captain what yeah captain conspiracy, captain potato chips in his throat, um that with the dark web, that somebody would be able to get this information probably pretty easily to have some kind of code to unlock the box, and I actually don't think they are.

is this. I think what we're talking about at the end of the last episode, I think if they were met by perpetrators outside the house outside of the garage, that's probably the easiest way to gain access, and I agree with you in in, like I said we had this brilliant convert they should on friday, and then we get into yesterday show in we're both kind of more of the mindset that honey was likely approached her attacked outside of the home and then once they had heard had access to the home before moving on, though I do want to point out a couple things, and you said a list. You know that they would have that information, and that's where we got this information was that we have. The police and investigators coming out and stating look. We have a list of any one who gained entry to the home in north toronto, which was for sale via the lock box. That was their exact statement. I found that I found that statement interesting because I wanted to know further. Does that mean okay? This is the list of people that have asked

as to the lock box, and these are the only people to have access to the lock box. Or is this a list that states these are the people that have used the lock box so far and on what days in what times, and who was all in the party that was looking at the home. How detailed was that information was something that I found to be interesting, while maybe I'm wrong to assume, but I'm assuming that law enforcement went down those list. They are question, have all these individuals and they probably object out One thing to captain: I was a little shocked and I'm making an assumption here but I was a little shocked, giving the families wealth and giving given the value of the home. I would have from somebody security background, I was expecting that there would be electric door locks on this house's whether be magnet sore or electric, that

these doors would all automatically locked behind you that you would use either a key patter key card to enter the home. Than a traditional key, which could be the case, we don't know, but it seems to be like there's a thought that there's a lock box somewhere, it's able to gain access to home now. One thing I do want to point out for, while we're on the topic of of security and one thing that I used to tell people that I worked for The past was when you're using these key pads and some of you, you know we're not all on this level, but some of us, you know, of of the level of having these big expensive homes. With these great security precautions and measures going on, but a lot of us out there have key pads. Or go wrong doors, and one thing that I used to have to remind people that would that had access to those properties when using key pads. Often I would see people you know you. You can't stand out in your point.

in your code and you nonchalantly, walk in well. It doesn't take an einstein to be standing behind you down the street, watching you from a window above to see you type in that code and gain access to that door. So one thing I used to have to remind people was shield yourself a bit when you're punching in your co. Just like you would at an atm machine protect yourself when you're going in and out of your gradual, the other thing to wipe those key pads down? Often, if you, if you No clean them in your only using one specific code, a lot of times. You can open up that key pad the covered, the keypad and see which for five buttons are being pushed. So those are some some good too for you for everybody out there. One thing we need to move on to the captain is the law suit. Now we didn't into the lawsuit so much yesterday, but what we did cover don't know that women have enough time to get into the

tiny little details of this lawsuit because he's a broad strokes, its vast. But what going to do is connected. I think that this is a big thing here. This was certain a big thing in sherman life. Now we have determine was it a factor in his demise. So bury sherman was vol involved. It's no seeker in a great deal of litigation A lot of these cases were of great importance, most of them to his company. Now. One case in particular was more on a personal level, and that was his family, some members of his family had sued him because they felt that they had a rightful claim to a portion of his company. Who were these people? These are the winters remember, Barry gained, he was able to take over the company or his uncle's company. After his uncle passed away, and then he turned it into his own company. Well, his uncles.

children were very young at the time that he had passed away. I actually the oldest might have only been seven or eight years old, so they, though they become orphans, four yeah and so the thought he'd. The general thought is this: they because they were so young and because bury took over the company they weren't able to have have that same privilege. That would be their inheritance that day without job to purchase them did they sure yeah that they should deserve.

And therefore their cousin bury had a fiduciary duty to these children. Basically, he owed them. Something is what their law suit with state. When, when to put a plain and simple, he owes us something for this great success that he wouldn't have had. He only had it because of because of our father murray. This case was not. It was not a short case. This thing was in trial. I dont have trials the right word, but in litigation for but like a decade, now ten years, so we got, the lawyers must love. That's right! That's a whore he'd make a whole career out of this one case in september, just a couple months, but or bury was before he passed away. The judge basically says: look there's no case here. This is wishful thinking on the part of the four winter children ran, who are now obviously

lt. This is wishful thinking on their part, this guy has made his own success and he It you nothing now to make it worse. You ve held this guy up in court for all. his years. You now owe him three hundred thousand dollars and I believe that was to come some of his legal expenses throughout the course of this figuring? This whole thing out, yes and then also at some point. Berry was giving money to these cousins to help them tries to start their own companies and during this litigation as well, those became not just give some money but loans, and so those were expire and to be paid back as well. Yeah animals were millions of dollars yet and there

one thing that I find I find a little weird do: do you feel like if they felt like they deserve something it was almost like. They were getting something because of his success as I've seen it reported that they were receiving monthly stipends as high as fifteen thousand dollars, each from Barry sherman, and they were getting homes purchase for them. They would get businesses started up in I mean who needs a business started up when you're getting fifteen thousand dollars a month. Why? I believe, all four of these individuals, all four of his will be his cousins right. All four of his cousin had cousins had issues with alcohol and drugs so, and I also just think that that people do money, makes people even greedier just to cover our own butts. Here, though, captain I've only seen it reported that two of them

I had had those issues. So just so, we cover our own butts here, but those two widely reported. Okay. So the reason why we bring this up is you can't look into this case without thinking that this could possibly have something to do with it? regarding the money that they were receiving from bury before the way that that work was they were receiving gifts, monthly, stipends houses, loans, all that jazz and until They said all right now bury you owe us something we're coming after you now exactly what the captain said. He saying these gifts it. I gave you in the past. You now owe me for some of these gifts and, furthermore, the family, the cousins or saying look court system. He use this to try to control us He used this system that he created the he could change manipulate whenever he wanted to as a way of keeping us quiet as a way of controlling us, so he could maintain the company and us not go after him, so it's

tit for tat. It's it's him going after them them going after him, It was a long nasty bit to large and less be pretty clear about this, so very gets the company and the less call that company empire right, so he gets empire and basically what this agreement stated- and this is what I this is- where it's kind of confusing to me- is that at some point that they would be each one of them would be able to get five percent of the companies and wealth. Now the way I view that is that they'd have the opportunity to buy into the five percent. That's how I view it now. I could be wrong, so they have the opportunity to get fibers

at each that'd be twenty percent. So then they kind of basically went okay. How much is barry worth and we're entitled to twenty percent of that? The problem is that at some point a empire was sold off or they just did away with and they started his next company, which has nothing to do with empire bright. So now you have this company. That does not exist and there is no actual value and and look some people think you know, Barry was a you know, piece of shit because he was trying to keep his family or these cousins. You know from getting what is rightfully theirs ring, but I, but also this is just a smart business move. If you have a business that is worth something, and you know that there is fine print writing that these individuals that you have lost contact with are entitled to twenty percent of the business, and then these

If visuals come back into play while and get rid of that business start your own business. Now you don't own anything and that's basically what the judge said right right, they're they're coming after Barry, because they believe, because he empire, which is a he created, a new company which is be a plus, be equal sea, which was his success in wealth and they wanted a chunk of sea and the in the court systems, basically saying while you had nothing to do with be so, you don't get a chunk of, seek right and also very was able to prove that if bear he wasn't in charge of company a that. It would never made any money at or at some point actually was scheduled to go bankrupt. So then get oh yeah. You want to get twenty percent of a bankrupt company. They pursue this law suit for a decade for what what is twenty percent

I have five or six billion dollar company. That's a whole lot of rolling papers. If you get that twenty percent and then after a decade there told by a judge, you got no case and, furthermore, you're gonna have to give this do that you went after three hundred thousand dollars to make up for his time. Is this for murder. Yes, yeah. We ve seen in disgust, people being killed for a whole lot less than this. A smack demand for double cheeseburger now, obviously, don't anybody go fallen off of their. lazy boy, what kleiner to email me and say well just cause bury ends up dead, doesn't mean they get the twenty percent. We understand that we're talking about people to be very angry at feeling like they were cheated out of a lifetime's worth of wealth, now bear let's get this pretty clear berry eyes, honey dies nobody's gonna.

Extra money they're not getting anything, but, like you said it, this would be a. We didn't get what we thought were due so now we're going to murder you now- and this is also coming now- there's are the four cousins, only one that's really talking yeah and let's focusing on him hit. This is carried out. Turn now carry winner has said some weird stuff about bury. He claims that at some point, berry said to him hey, you know some people take care, my wife, I wondered dead right.

Now he made these allegations to the fifth estate, the fifth estate. Ah, he was willing to take a polygraph. He took the polygraph and he failed, and now all they did was that all they ask him during this polygraph test was about this allegation that Barry wanted honey dead, and so he so he fails the lie detector. Then they wanted him to take a lie detector to see, if he's responsible for the murder of barry and honey, and then he refuses to boot, but now now mind you, his lawyer said and he just failed one polygraph test we're not going to have to take another one. Well- and this comes about because he publicly says you know this is a canadian case. Can you say a boat route right now, I'm in ohio.

Comes a bit, you can listen to a true crimes show from canada. If you want this the time Ohio brother anyway, the nighttime podcast, here's the thing this comes about because because carry says they look. I believe this was a more suicide. I believed that bury wanted his wife dead and hears. Why? Because on at least two occasions, this guy has asked me to put some scenario together where I have his wife killed form and win when you attack him and go okay. Well, This seems a little fish. Could you give us some more information? And while I remember these conversations happened at berries place of work I remember that they happened some time in the nineties. I didn't tell me

relatives about it at the time, but I did some maybe tell them some time before before the couple died. I did tell a friend or two at the time that he asked me to do this, with which they confirm that those friends do remember those conversations, the other problem with, individual, those whose use the drug attic well, not that their heroin a bunch differently. yeah. He was in a cocaine, anonymous programme, twelve step programme. Now he he also the the bigger problem, though, is that he has said publicly that he he suspects. One, a lot of people would have wanted to see bury dead, including himself. Then he said he had fantasized and spoke to a psychiatrist about having fantasies of killing Barry

He wanted to decapitate him and roll his head down a parking lot or down a driveway, or something like that. So here we have this very strange. I can the only one. The only way I can describe this dude is as strange this. Guy is he's a c a next wednesday. I look at him. He makes no sense to me his who he makes no sense to me. I don't know that he now what's going on or what words are coming out of his mouth because actually find him somewhat intelligent? He turned his interview them and I think he's a is a liar, but I think that there is definitely a brain in the head Yet a sloppy brain is in that head heat. He seems a meal. I dont understand why this invite. While this investigation is going on that you come out and say, look I fantasized about killing this dune.

and he did he hated honey as well, and they just never questioned them from the beginning and he he fully amidst on camera, no alibi and also well known, he he if he does, he gives an alibi. He says: okay, look the when taken when when he was asked to go through the possible days of the thirteenth and the fourteenth, which is believed that they were killed on one of the two days, this is as much of an alibi as he provides. He states that he attended a twelve step programme on the thirteenth, claiming that he's been clean and sober for six years now? He said that after the twelve step program he went home and watched an episode of picky blinders on netflix and he went to bed. He said he most likely spoke to his girl.

friend, long distance calling her from his home on that night. The next day on thursday, he says he got up. Is six fifteen a m showered shaved and went off to his job? He's a construction supervisor for six custom homes that are being built north of the city. He claims that on that day, while he is at work, he could quote absolutely. I could not go awol. Because we are in regular contact through text, email or sometimes phone calls. There's no way. Between six in the morning on thursday and six in the evening on thursday, I I've got a full alibi with many different trades, seeing in an out of houses

But the problem here is carry as a weirdo and he told this to the sun newspaper the toronto son. That's it you're. What I read was a direct quote from him to the toronto sought. Yes, now, let's play some clips of him talking the fifth state and the first part of this clip just so everybody knows what's going on remember he had said that bury had asked him twice to kill his wife and what you're gonna hear at the start of this clip is carries changing his story because he's been hooked up to the polygraph. The polygraph shows deception on carries part. When asked how many times were you asked to kill berries, wife, honey, and how many to you no word you in fact ass to kill honey, You hear him changing his song and dance after that polygraph, but I still believe that the why my head, I believe he asked me- twice wasted

ass. Well, you didn't ask your second to hear what percentage do you feel that he only ass your wife? What would be the percentage pretty high like how close one. Yeah, I only asked me once Would then, not months or weeks it would have been within a few days. He called it off which in a few days ago, as opposed to in a week when we are usually on second time. Ok. Ok. I mentioned a second time which is forcing yes. that's the only explanation I have done. I couldn't question said two times in it. She was getting caught, to being done and she twenty hours away and that could have been an embellishment I honestly think there was this button idea and that she was

twenty hours away from going his buttons thing was a bullshit way. Looking back- and I don't know if that's true or not where I would have dreamt that up, though, why I would have dreamt it up maybe the drugs possibly or to make it a more drama, oriented fiasco. I'm completely baffled. because I didn't think it was MR you're gonna get their data technological development, ok, unbelievable! You know I probably had reasons to lash out to us to do the dirty deed. This would be asked a view by anybody. Did you kill Embarrassment? Absolutely not. I. Seem to do with it? Oh, who did it? I mean

opportunity I had motive. I can see why the police might say this. Guy is also a fucking nut like I would talk about killing Mary and it was very graphic. The way I was going to do it wouldn't have been, he felt it was going be in there It's parking that was my vision, always that he'd come out of the building and not protection, I'd be hiding behind a car, and I just decapitated. I want to roll his head down the parking lot and I just sit there waiting wait. no alibi. Wednesday night, I went to my cocaine anonymous meeting. I came home as I usually do. Watch some netflix eat. Some doritos fall asleep thursday nights same thing, went to war ii very easily for me to have left work at anytime, because I'm not on the clock and site supervisor I can get in my car. I can take a three hour break during the day. I could easily have driven over to colony and done it. He I admit to that, but I didn't I didn't.

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spent a whole lot of time on carry winters character. I dont know this as well. to say that he is like a horrible, despicable person. Eke has these fantasies of killing bury sherman, which he's very honest and open about. However, also feels, like he's been extremely wronged by this man, so I want to try to get in here. I didn't play, games and figure that thing out, but He's are in his own head playing games. What, where I have the biggest issue with this individual is, he should be on a suspect list I dont know that he's the prime suspect. I don't know that. I think that he's even capable or sophisticated enough to potentially have carried this out. However, in to get away with it. To this point, however, what I find there strangers. I'm give you a door direct quote from an article that was in the toronto sun. While you are playing a clue,

of him, saying almost the exact opposite when he is on the fit the state both of these situations that both interviews would have occurred six weeks after the deaths of garments. So where I have a big problem, is he also goes on in both of these interviews to say: I've not talk to the police, yet I have not been questioned by detective jet, but, however, I didn't do it. So therefore, I'm not worried about talking to detectives that does it. You know I'm not nervous about that in any way well and that at the end of the fifth state they do say that he was contacted bud. Detectives he's been question. He is not a suspect time right, but again, six weeks right, how is he not on police up? Ok, we should question these one hundred people, He was not on that. First, one hundred lives. How hard is it and I hate the throw shit, I'm a blue blood guy

every day every night, but what I have an issue, which is, I think this is a big slip up on toronto police department on their police service. I think it's a huge slip up and what I mean by that is, it does not. It takes one interview with one of the sherman children, one of the grown up going to say you know what is there any body that would have wanted to see either of your parents dead? Specially Mary! Is there any war? There would have contacted the sermons lawyers to say out of these lawsuits, somebody a threat and this this law suit. It headed It was done within september- it's not like we're talking about years ago. This was months before they were killed or before this incident, and whatever

and argue whether its murder, suicide or whatever this is a guy. That seems to me, like it see it's very strange that this guy was not contacted in question within the first week of this going down, or at least being when the first ten or twenty p well that they talked to. I think that what? But I also think you have a situation where you have a lot of you know you have a lot of nice houses in this area. You have a lot of possibilities for surveillance, footage and that's going to be very important to get right away where you know, if you have somebody like carry on video camera in the neighborhood on Wednesday night. Well, you know when you talked to him six weeks later

that sounds pretty strong piece of evidence. I agree with that, but what I'm also getting at is. It seems like very delayed to me six weeks to talk to this guy, who is willing to sit down with people on camera, say dreamed of kill that dude and not only in hears. Why and with it reason: why is public knowledge? the reason. Why is public knowledge? It wasn't hidden from anybody. I begin a tough thing you know to play the devil's advocate and to be a champion for the law enforcement is the fact that you know it took them six weeks to do the forensics of this mansion. You know. So that's a that's a lot of time spent. You know at this house this property, because it's a large right. I I agree, but nobody's going to get me to change my mind that this guy should have been spoken to within the first week. I understand it's a large crime scene. Here's the other problem

what I'm getting at captain, as I think that they honed in on this murder suicide, and I think there was probably things at the scene to suggested them did that might be what they are. Looking at. An what I'm getting at is one thing we ve been critical of other departments. We been critical of authors, we ve been critical of podcast. Of ourselves of everyone about this is honing in on one theory to early too soon and stick into that and go, and you know what we're gonna work this until it until this lead is dead until we can't. face it any more, and then we will start coming up with other ideas afterward. So what are some of these other theories? Some other possible theories regarding the death of the sherman. So I want to be clear here. It is still up for debate that this was a murder suicide. There still people out there

sending that side of the argument where I have where I take issue with that and where a lot of other people take issue with that is, there has been a lot of permission that has come out to suggest otherwise and some that being the leg it your marks that were believed to be binding on the risk of berry and honey sherman its believed. There is one side of the argument that states that these people they're here, were bound in the bindings were removed after their death and removed from the crime scene. There is also a strong argument to suggest that they weren't here You know that position that they were found in where there they they look to be here. Being from the rails by their necks. There's there's a good evidence out there to suggest that they were actually strangled before that and then tied up to the rails after death. So

We could sit here and debate the murder, suicide or double homicide thing all day long. I think that its it it would be a waste of everyone's time. I think that it There is enough here for me to suggest that this is a double homeless are so let us assume that is a double homicide and then what are the theories the three more popular ones are one that we ve already kind of touched on that the family either the family or some one in the family murdered the sermons. The next theory. is an unknown unknown, and what what I why I tied over this is because Berry sherman was a very wealthy man and by some accounts one of the wealthiest men in canada and besides his pharmaceutical empire, he had invested widely animal and real estate, hedge funds, etc. Riah he had this, invest

with this boat we heard about us, nobody had an interesting beer investment as well. We had this boat called the great gas. Oh yeah, I heard a little bit about the boat, never existed, yeah yeah so you mean he was spreading as money out and These are probably a lot of things that honey, even know about well or board, I mean. Does she cared you know I mean she's, got her own endeavours, any she's she's on more charitable boards than many charity words than most people in that area, most people can name. This is a busy. This is a busy woman, anyone, but what at what I'm get? with this unknown unknown theory- is that he had many many business part partners that that spread all across the land. So, according to this thing,

three very sherman, may have in one of these side. Deals have found himself in a partnership with one or more unsavory characters, let's say, and so, if maybe a project suddenly collapsed, perhaps he was to blame or he was blaming. There's some of these partners and somebody one or two cut in some way out of a deal right in somebody wanted revenge in this situation. I We think that this scenario is entirely plausible- the problem here for investigators. I think that it creates a wide net. It creates a huge- that's a minefield of people to a kind of sort through and sort out, lots of paperwork, lots of business dealings, lots of different potential partners.

and I think that you have to honan, but some people think that that may be that honey was just you know the innocent bystanders right and and- and I really feel like that, if, if they just wanted a kill barry, they could have done so Just like his cousin is saying hey? I was going to kill him right outside his office. Why think? That's where most people probably could kill this innovative visual? That spent a lot of time alone at his place of business. So to me there there there's a connection there. There there were both murdered for a reason. You see, I mean the other thought

that somebody in big pharma took him out, you know, and we know that he built a substantial fortune for himself. A lot of this, like you, had talked about reverse engineering, patented drugs and going to market with cheaper generic versions of these drugs. so the precise number would be unknown, but how many people, how many companies did this disrupt over the course of four decades. It's it. I mean it's almost its siphoning billions, tens of billions of dollars from other companies from balance sheets from you know these affect stock prices. They affect people's jobs

but executive bonuses bottom lines. It's endless right at the the tough thing here for me is that the fact that he was kind of backing away from the business and you'd think that if they wanted to take them out, there would also want to know if we take him out that it takes down his company two. Well, that's put the it's possible that the reason why I do like this big pharma theory, as well as the last one for similar reasons ok, one. The motive would be obvious and the other being did if this was a professional hit. If this was a higher deal, Clearly they have the financial means to organise such a professional hit in yeah. I'm sure there's something

While they're gone, oh yeah, big pharma to you, know, put a hit out on this doctored. This has been a there's, been a bunch of doctors that have ended up dead, but those are the three main theories. What are some more? The fourth, once well, the farfetched ones, and, in my opinion I think you share the same opinion is one the mob to massage agents and three the Clinton's, and I may always Clinton's if Clinton's are responsible for everything, if you going to stay Clinton, did you want to go down any of those roads? I looked into all three of them very briefly and very quickly, was able to dismiss them, I found them to be much less likely than the three that we ve already discussed. Why? I think that clinton- one it's is very far fetched. There was some donations, they Clinton foundation, there's a bunch it don't

since with a bunch of berries, sherman was given money to a lotta. Different foundations saw I, but that idea. Was he lobbying for his company and was that a reason why hidden he end up dead. That's a possibility, that's more likely to me than the Clinton foundation right yeah- I actually, I don't find any of these three to be credible at all. I think, though, the the place that I found that was pumping them Assad agents. The most was the national inquire, an eye their claims are that there were fingerprints found at the scene to suggest that these professionals came in from possibly overseas and committed this hit and then left. I find it awfully strange

These professional hit men would come in and leave fingerprints at the scene and just make no, it makes no sense like be. They forgot their gloves before the guy on the plane term to come over here. Well, it like, I said it makes it makes no sense. What I think happened here is exactly what you touched upon earlier. I think when you look at the, why, plus how equals, who I think the? Why here is why was honey sherman killed because, like you said it would have been that the list of enemies that bury Sherman had is endless. That's why we could say here we could talk about possibilities and theories and speculations on this case for ten more episodes. If you like you, can send us an e mail. True crime garage dot com. If you would like for that to happen thing here, though, captain is. I find it strange that, while

he had all these enemies yet honey is killed, is well she's, an unnecessary almost collateral damage. I guess is what I'm saying it's unnecessary to kill her if he is your enemy and why? But some people are just evil. Evil shit stains right and then, like bolts, kill her too. So that is a possibility, but I do believe that she that the whatever I think this is a revenge killing somehow yeah. This is what I'm getting and, and then like they've said, and that's what law enforcement said a million times that the tie, the way they were choked the way they were strangled. This is like up close and personal attacks, so yeah. I thought I think that she was killed for a reason. I think that somebody wanted revenge, not just on bury, but they wanted and john honey as well. Now does that to be a family member now. Could it be big farmer? Yes, could it be,

and on an unknown unknown. Yes, could it be the family? Yes, I that there is a reason why they both were killed, and I think that I think that was actually a very calculated attack. You know we talked about the possibility of bindings being used in them removed, while I think, I'm seeing here is that when the police walk into the scene, they think that this is a murderer beside because they have no evidence of any body being in the house or removing anything from the house right, but at some stage that way there was give it there's nothing in the home that they find that doesn't belong there right and there's nothing missing from the hole, and so when that's, what makes it seem so sophisticated does what I think it is sophisticate out. I think that one and was I think she was attacked out front to gain access to the home, to wait berry to arrive. They would have known that this might be typical. Typical behaviour of these two by

watching them for any period of time. They kill both of em, like you set up close and personal strangled with belts and then hung around those rails. Now the question was where they both berries belts, one of them is confirmed, or ITALY's believed b, berries belt right. I believe they were both berries belts and the reason being is. I go back to the fact that I think that nothing was removed from the crime scene and nothing was left at the crime scene, but it adds to the sophistication- and I think that yet you you they strangled these poor people that were seventy five and seventy years old were not able to defend themselves, obviously didn't deserve any of this, and then hang them from the railing there. By time screwing with the police investigation may be staging the scene to give the impression that this might have been a murder suicide buying enough time to get out of dodge. I think I, I think the toronto police department is very

capable of solving this? I think that, somewhere along the line, the private investigators hired by the family, this will be solved and I'll tell you why the family has enough money to pay private, invest, gaiters and pale lawyers for many years to come to unlock the ruth somewhere along the line? There is a connection to why somebody wanted them both dead. There's a piece of paper: there's a dealing somewhere, that's going to be discovered and of the private gaiters are not going to be able to work that leader that angle to the completion of someone's arrest. What they will do, then, is handed over to toronto police and they will get involved and they will find the people that did this and they will trace it back to whoever hired them to do this. I think there Multiple people probably involved in this whole thing and here's, where I have a big problem, I you know me,

well. No, this is where I have a problem with the toronto police department, irreligious harping on harp anonymous, yeah, yeah I'm going to have so if you're listening up their toronto guys about the school you their turn it off about the last time. You talk shit about about the school year. Ok, ok, because in the beginning, when you came out- and you said, wait, there's no son the fourth entry we are not seeking any suspects at this time. Look I get that you, you were trying to be professional. I get that here's what you should have said. What you should have said is: Look, we don't have any answers for you at this time, we a lot of evidence that we are sifting through and we will have at. We will have answers for the media for the family very soon there will Oh result and a conclusion after we have poured through the evidence, and why is that your statement to the public, because look

these guys that got away the took everything with them that they walked in the house with. Let them think that they left something at the scene. Let em squirm let em thing they left something at the scene. Let em tear their hair out trying to fit What they left at the scene and all you have to say, is We have a lot of evidence to sift through, and we will have answers for you when you when you say that there is no signs of forced century. When you say that we are seeking no suspects that, to me, shows guy showing up and go on. We don't really what we're looking at here. We don't want the public to panic, so we're going to say or make it make them understand that we're not we're not actively seeking anybody. What's the worst case scenario, even if you think that these people were targeted or if you think It was a murder, suicide worst case scenario of the people in the area. They stay on high alert for a few days. They watched their backs, they locked their doors, they love the hug

love their children and wives and keep them safe. That's the worst that could happen. The other thing is these criminals could have made mistakes had they believed that they left something behind. They could have made mistakes later after the fact I think did I think the toronto police, blue and opportunity here too to one I think it would have been advantageous for them to present it that way to the media, and then on top of that guess what somebody somebody on their team. I dont know what level it was. Somebody somewhere had a cup of coffee with somebody had a beer with somebody sat down to breakfast with somebody and told him. We think we're looking at a murder suicide, because her faces all busted up. it wasn't so you had the time to come. You had the time to leak that and that's not the whole departments fall. That's one individuals fall. I guess captain. This is a long winded version, long winded.

of me saying: r, amp d up man. I don't know exactly who did this and I I think, though, that there's gonna be a paper trail to to someone that's responsible for this. At some point, whether it be the person the hired the hit or the one that perform the hit, I think is likely perform by more than one person. It could even be hired by more than one person, I think somebody in one of those three groups that we discussed- big pharma, the unknown unknown or the family had something to do with it. Yeah because I think sometimes law enforcement is thrown off by when they go. While this is a personal way to attack somebody will you can hire somebody to attacked somebody in personal way. I want you kill them this way. I think whoever wanted them dead wanted them to know why they will die. the

this week. We got some recommended viewing for your one, can only read so many books in a lifetime. We were commending everybody check out the evil genius on netflix. It's a four part series. It's based on the pizza bomber collar bomber case, if we want to call out of eerie pennsylvania. Strange story here won't go too much into the case itself, but the four part series is very well done. We work plan to cover this case. At some point, we had it on our short list and it was going to be the topic one of our meetings captain and before we could make it onto the actual list to be covered? I got. I saw some information that netflix was releasing this. It came out a couple weeks afterwards watched it. They did such a good job on it. I encourage everybody else to watch it out there. If you still want us to cover it, let us know and will consider it, but I think Netflix did a good job and his cot evil genius and I won't be watching it yet, because I have a hard time watch

anything about pizza. So until next week be good became an don't win.