Have you ever been so enthralled with a podcast that it stays with you long after the episode ends. There's an apple tv plus original series called truth, be told truth, be told follows poppy. Scoville we're crime podcast host, who died Deep into our stories even after her mike stops, recording whence teenage girls, mysteriously vanish poppy, vows to find them and bring the people responsible to justice feature academy award winner, octavius spencer, Gabrielle union and macao pfeiffer truth be told stream, the new season now exclusively on apple tv plus bedtime, is rough even for peanut its white people, will try anything to fall. Asleep had stands before bed even blowing bubbles, but actually has a trick. That works every time. A new temper, peter mattress, it adapts to your bodies, needs

help me fall asleep, faster and stay asleep. A longer you'll wake up feeling refreshed every day, even et agrees, so did the wacky but I'm rituals had to actually to take home a temper today. the the.

welcome to true prime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing. Thanks for listening, I'm your host nick and with me, of course, as always from behind the glass, is the man steering the ship. He is the captain and together I would like to point out that only a total psychotic would listen to the show at two times the speed welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It's going to be seasons good to see you thanks for listening and thanks for telling a friend this week we are drinking anaheim- are bushes, budweiser in american logger and an american classic the one time, king of beers garage grade three bottle caps. Out of five and this week are fridges, fool, thank you all of you out there, but specifically first up thanks to laura p in washington and a big shots, Emily and osage minnesota. Next

we have brian in highlands, ranch colorado in Birmingham alabama. We have andrea. She is me stop. We have our friend randy in federal way, washington and last, but certainly not least, we have a long distance shears way out to Lauren and port talbot whales. you, two everybody for helping us out with this week. Show if you want to contribute to future, shows, go to church, I am garage dot, com and click on the donate button. If you'd like to check out our old episodes, download the stitcher app and we have a weekly show called off the record so get hip to that. It's hips, be squared. That's enough of the bees are captain. Everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer. Let's talk, some true cried the

all right back with part three of brandon swans. It's like we never left. Guess somebody bob cover this case. In ten minutes we covered in ten hours, ten episodes so going through these areas. Here, captain we talked about how thinking sideways said it's impossible for alien abduction. You said no time warp, no sas watch. There are people in. I find this a little strange, but it is something You do have to consider any time you have a missing persons case is that the individual chooses to be missing that they side to walk away from their life. Yet we both agree in this case the fact that brandon seem to be lost at some point, so he is calling for help from friends. They don't answer so than a cause and get a hold of his parents, and these asking for help basically right and we agree that he didn't walk away from his life.

Based off of his actions, leading up to his last known whereabouts right in there's also, it would make zero sense to call mom and dad yeah decide to walk away that same night, tat on tat, but that there is no nothing of his past or anything that his family is pointing. To that. This is a possibility. have one of the more plausible theories in this kind of branches into a couple of different options. Here is that Brandon perished in some type of accident somewhere out there in that night. This theory seems to be again, one of the more likely once, although it's the problem here in this case will continue to be that they ve not ever found and they ve never found any evidence of him clothing, a jacket shoes, anything of his classes, his phone. Anything like that. But let's get into this theory, let's break it. Downright Brandon was disoriented and confused

about where he was. That is not a question. He was twenty miles from where he thought he was. We know he got his car stuck in a ditch. We know he was frustrated based off of what his parents were. He decided to abandon the vehicle he sort started walking. He took what he referred two as a more direct route across the fields. Farmland off road air. Yes terrain. He was not familiar with will not initially stay on the road initially and then he went off path correct. he's walking along fences and he states to his father. He can hear running water. Meanwhile, What else do we know he? It's very dark that night Brandon is blind in one eye, his foot, their heard, him exclaimed oh shit and then phone on brand inside goes dead. So what happened here la LA it be clear: it doesn't go dead from our knowledge, there's a disconnect

the call drops is what I meant sorry about that and in it's just words, but you're right. We need to clear that up, because there is a hot debate about if his phone went dead or if he still active yes, after he says, oh shit. The call ends on brandons end from here a lot of people say Brandon could have fallen or could have walked into something. This would be the river a well a saint coal or some other type of obstacle.

let's go through this, because I think we can very quickly eliminate some of these possibilities, and this is based off of information that has come out and is pretty while you know readily available. The sink. Whole theories have basically been debunked by Jeff. Halsey. Remember he's the search manager that we spoke about, who him methodically and meticulously was searching for brain all these years. He stated that the radius, where he calculated that brain and could have possibly walked from his car- and this is even after the call went dead according hu the blog that he maintained that we reference yesterday that cites details in the searches conducted for Brandon. provided you know making these public. He states that sink halls form in cars or cave geology,

now. He also says that the only cardiology in minnesota is in the south eastern part of the state, The area where Brandon went missing is in the south western part of minnesota. Basically, he saying he but now fallen into a single because they're not their right. The other thing he points Two regarding like wells, open well Some things of that nature on farm land. He points out that the file land in this area of the country is extremely valuable and they all old wells have been capped off or replace Per minnesota law so the day is of large wells with buckets. The people could fall into, he said hang our long gone where they could be capped off and also in this area Farmers and these people live in their area would hear about this kid gone missing and they probably check their property for any signs of Brandon. Yes, he

waiting all the water sources on these industrial farms were quote unquote: high tech by two thousand and eight now old cisterns could exist. But again, if they do, the searchers have never found one, could leave us with the river. So we have a local woman who participated in the searches for brandon. She posted did the terrain out. There is riddled with swamps, bogs, caves, six foot, tall grasslands, wooded areas, in ponds. Cat tails along the river banks are eight feet tall at this time of year, brain and could have walked or fallen into you. The river or the swamps or the bogs at any point along this way, his father says after

brandon, says: oh shit, that he heard some type of what he describes as a slipping sound and we know that the scent dogs tracked brandon to the actual river. and then seem to indicate that he got back out of the river, so that this is goes into what you were talking about earlier. Can where you have to wonder, is it possible to brain and fall into the yellow medicine river and did something happened to his phone? did he did he, even maybe he didn't drown in the river or maybe he did maybe hit his head and drowned in the river. But you also have this. that maybe he he slipped into the river he gets out, but his phone does not, then the question

is what his phone continue to ring for a few days, even after submerged Jeff ass. He says yes, this is a possibility that the the sounded the collar hears has nothing to do with the condition of the actual phone. So this makes this a a very possible thing here, right yeah and sometimes when you're trying to call somebody. If you don't have great service, your phone will ring multiple times before it actually tries to connect to them right right. So the idea being here that may be something happened to the phone. It cares. Here's the the thing that you really gotta consider right if he did fall into the river, even if he got out, he very likely could be soaking, wet, then we he staggering along the road until he decides to stop and rest somewhere. Maybe this is a whole

a field or in the woods or an abandoned, born, he could have died of hypothermia temperatures dropped to thirty nine degrees. That night, we both agreed that he was wearing fairly warmth, clothing for that evening, the river was only fifty five degrees. Could Brandon have succumb to the cold especially if he was wet his body. Having not been found yet could be because it was either to obscured or has, scattered by animals ploughed on. And broken up by heavy farm equipment. We have to remember that searchers were not able to access all of the farm land in the area, some of which were covered thickly with high tight crops. There's some interesting things that just

ass. He states in his information that he's made public when he's talking about you know we re prince how many dogs they used in the search for brandon over the years. The problem is at certain I'm so the years that the crops are different heights and he says that the height of crops can make it extremely difficult, if not impossible, for a dog to find the scent, brain. It is hard to certain general when you have obstacles like that. You see that in a case like the long island serial killer case Jeff has he. also states that this region receives nearly constant wines which can come from any direction these winds move sent from the source and deposited into what he refers to assent pools this throw off the cadaver dogs, meaning there won't be able to settle on an exact location of the remains. The other part.

billy too. Then he points out is that the remains may have been scattered over a wide area, and this could be by predators. You know such as animals or that they were moved by human activity such as farmers tilling their fields or baling, hey or corn stock. Something like that. Then again we also have these access issues. They have not been able to search where that they would like to search. They have been very careful to protect land odors property over the EU, here's generally avoiding searching fields with crops in them, even though he states there is a very likely chance at brand and ended up in a field bright. He thinks it this year. This only leaves spring and fall available for them to search, and then we have the difficulty of how much land there is to search. Remember pointed out that your prioritizing ninety eight point five square miles,

He a lot of land here he says to effectively search a single one hundred and sixty acre field, a team, all team of people I walk in excess of ten miles in what he says is difficult footing. Allow these same lines here captain he points out that not all the I've, been looking and don't allow the same lines here. Captain Jeff points out that not all of these points- bit. Land owners have agreed to searches, because let say: Brandon attempted to seek shelter from the wind or from the cold, some point along his journey. Maybe he crawls into now building or under some old machinery and then passes there.

He he says that they had not searched all of the farmsteads. In fact, they've only searched very few of the farmsteads in the area. While you said there was a radius that they had certain there's a what what was the percentage like says? They've only been able to search by sixty percent, sixty percent of the area that they have prioritized yes well, and to go back to the cadaver dogs to if you have a small part on of water, but it has a drains into something that the cadaver dogs normally do not hit inside the partly body, could be in the middle of the pond. The cadaver doves normally hit where the waters training, because that's where the sat is more dumb he also points out the conditions. In minnesota at that time of year and by his all

his knowledge and all of his experience, it's his opinion that a body could become fully skeleton ized within a week. That's very cool out there. He even calculating that brandons body was likely fully disarm tissue laid by mid July of two thousand and eight, and he says this would be very likely at the latest. The one thing that makes this case so much more fascinating is, like you been talking about, is the documentation of the search that really changes. Everything with. As far as like the brain and lawson case or like evenly mar murray lake, we don't have as detailed records of the searches that happen and in those cases right, and so what is fascinating here in really educating at the same time is all. The information about the searches throughout the years. Do failed information where we have a complete

Understanding of look so So many shows in so many news articles in so many website forums and message boards. They keep calm. Back to the idea that, Something weird had to have happened because, if not found, Brandon break the problem here is we have the search manager the guy ensure, urge and his team. That is very publicly stating we had this. The area to search. We went over the difficulties of the search or what could have happened throughout the the years wherever Brandon may be, that adds to the difficulty level of the search and yet add them saying, they're, still almost forty per cent of the prioritized area that we have not been able to get to know, which was sad because this is somebody's child. This is people's friends. You know

and I understand why some of the places haven't been searched, but it's kind of sad. Yes, I mean there's of a multitude of reasons why certain areas have not been search, and some of it is just happens and some of it is just the lay of the land itself. What do we think happened here? Captain we we could spend tyres all day, long on the possibilities and searches and what has taken place over the course of eleven years, or almost have you no eleven years now. What do we think happened? Well? Will ask take a quick beer break, so we can gather our thoughts gathers The. If you had the chance to be brought back to life hundreds of years in the future, would you take it wonderings newest podcast, frozen head home

by ashen. Alina of the hit show morbid, tells the true story of lawrence pilgrim, a lifelong scientist who plan for death his entire life because for him death in the end it was just the beginning, his dream to be frozen and brought back to life in the future, pulls us into a cryonics soap. Opera filled with dead pets, grenades, family feuds of fame, baseball legends and frozen heads lots of frozen heads. It's a story. The desire to avoid death the links that people will go to make that a reality and what it means to be alive. To begin with, less the latest episodes of frozen head were ever you find your favorite pod guest,

How do I get a king, a beer saying of rear kings, king of beers? What I say I don't know why, Looking up my notes and ran a touch of the centre, I'm doing the same thing, a moving, some things around. Would you like to go first, my friend he I can, I think I'm to me it's will. Where does the evidence take us? I think one with this search we will find with the bandit car, went to find him with in this area. I think where the the initial sent dogs hit and to the river- that's thumb, yellow medicine river correct

and where they hit there, I then came out of the river. I think they should have just probably stayed in the river, and that's where my what my gut is telling me is the old shit again when he was talking to his father he'd seen one arm along this fence line. I can hear water and then boom, oh shit,

and we have no signs of foul play, but that does not mean that further down the line, you know, if the scent dogs to stop that further down the line there wouldn't be, may be something, but we have had no reports of that. So I think where the car was with possibly being tired, I think with I possibly be in, let's say buzzed. I think there's some evidence that he had a few drinks. He was frustrated. He was tired. He was walking. He was trying to get help. He was definitely lost, ah or not in the area that he thought he was. I think that area's very easy to be confused, and I think you are going to dive into that more, but I think, like I said the dogs take

to that area. I think his conversation with his father on the phone points to being in that area and to be around that that river we have not found his body now. I think that is a leap like you said. Maybe sixty percent of this area has been surf. Forty hasn't so could you find his body somewhere else? Yes, and I understand that they also search this river. I think it'd be a lot harder to find his body in water in general, so I I just think that kind of leads to it- and I know like I said I know, that's a leap to say well, will you haven't found his body on land? So therefore, it puts him into water, but I think there's other, like I said those other pieces of evidence, kind of points us in the direction that there could have been an accident that happened along that that water line hm hm. I want to address a few different things that I think are

Confusing this whole situation from all of the arm chair detectives, all the people on the outside. Looking in, I think, first, I want to address the issue of I'm not totally discrediting or discounting the possibility of foul play, but what I do want to discredit is the thought that, because his name is on via cap means that he met with foul play, an people keep goin back to it, well. Law enforcement must know something that we don't know because they put him on via cap That is a possibility that they know something that we don't. It's definitely a possibility But looking into that specific situation, what I gathered from the database is the via cap was alerted of brandon swans situation on march fifth of two.

Thousand and ten, and then it was released to the public as being part of the via cap database on April seventh of two thousand and ten now remember what we reported earlier did back in march of to day, and in ten minutes, A bureau of criminal apprehension became the lead investigating agency on the case new eyes, looking at a cold case, what I getting to here. Captain is it's my thought that The reason that brandon his on vi cap is not because there is evidence of foul play or the he was met with violence. Simply because a new agency took over his case and decided to ask it to be applied to vi cap as something that it can't hurt to put him on the database. Right, though, I think her is the rumour rumor, and then I also want to address the issue of him, be

disoriented or you know why he I lost that whole situation. First of all, I question on how well he would have known any of these areas outside of rule sixty eight and root twenty three. I seriously question that, first of all how experience of a driver, is he he's only? ten years old- and we have some stories that may indicate that he might have even lost his license at one point, and then people point out that while he traveled this rule, for a fool school year too from marshal and can be where his school was. I I take a little issue with that too, because this, the typical school year at the school, is late august. Two made me not really a full year one and they take up. a month, long break in the middle of the winter. So it's not a full year. First of all and then. Secondly,

Why would he know the areas off of rule sixty eight grau sixty eight takes him to and from school. So I really question how well he knew this area, then on top of it, We have some confusion, confusing things going on regarding the lay of the land, so anybody that seeing this area on a map will know that the the streets in the roads, the country roads out there are laid out Secondly, like a square grid. I believe there's a simple version of this map on Wikipedia. yeah? I would. I would encourage anybody to look up that simple version of the map and then use her own map, app to run the zoo man on some areas and go through that trail that we took discussed in detail regarding the dogs movements, They were following or believe to be following brandons movements.

What you will see here is regarding this map. Okay, so picture square if you're not looking at it picture square rule, sixty eight runs diagonally from the northwest corner of that square to the south east corner of that square above rule sixty eight, an below rule. Sixty eight you have country roads that are laid out in a grid now north of sixty eight, we have street names and avenue names such as their all kind of numbers. There are some that are named, but them overwhelming. Majority of them are just numbers, meaning like hundred and sixtieth street to her in eightieth avenue, one hundred in tenth street one hundred fiftieth avenue. So on and so forth. You get when you talk about now north of rule, sixty eight

all of the numbered roads. If there going east to west. They are an avenue if they're going north, south or south north, they are streets. If you get south of sixty eight It flip flops where all of the numbered country roads going north to south are avenues and east to west our streets What I'm getting at here is, you would only have to take one wrong turn. To end up going the wrong way. If you let's say you are somewhat familiar with the area and you are where did o avenues, run east to west streets, north south, even though I am lost, I'm gonna use that information to guide me back to where I think I need to get to wealth

one wrong turn, basically take that whole square map that I just described in turn it on its side, because now, all the streets are going east west and avenues are going north south, it's a very tricky area. So I completely understand why somebody anyone, regardless of Their situation, how much they have had a drink, how little they ve. Drink, what David just, they're not would it turned around and confused in the situation and again We pointed out there are into It is to him that he is right in his statement where he sees. I gotta across the major road. There is a river that runs into that town. I must be where I think I am right in the simple fact of the matter is the people that say what he knew this area while he did it because we're where he told his family he was. He was not an that's all the proof that you, mean that he didn't know where you that maybe he'd

No that area well, but that night, no, he didn't know where he is. The other thing to that I think, gets in the way of really sorting through all of this is the oh shit moment right, so that this case oddly enough made me think back to my choice. Ok, I'm a child of the nineties and What I'm talking about here captain is the song, the things that make you go from, cnc music factory. This was nineteen ninety release things he go. Why don't bother? up, the song is as bad as you expected to be. Okay. Now look this case. Of course. This is a tragic case here of this young man, but its truly. Big question mark and why so many people are fascinated by this case. Is that it's a big question mark now

if you look at the lyrics for that song, the things that make you go whom the lyrics in that's all is listing out very simply the things that make you go home now there are a lot of questions in this case. But when I was really looking at regarding the phone call, he says, oh shit, and then the phone call ends I was really thinking to myself. What are the thing? it would make me go oh shit right and we're going to put ourselves in brandons shoes here so to speak. Now that could been any number of things- could have been some type of accident. He could have hurt himself. You know people so called out in a pile of shit right whatever. But the problem is the call ends after this takes place so can't you can't just look at this and go oh. What would make me say: oh shit, what would make me say

shit and then the phone and the phone call ends. You have to put those two things together, because that's what took place now, of course it could have been some type of accident. He could have fallen into the river. The river kills his phone, but the other thing, just a simple, could be his phone is going to die right. The phone is losing its charged. It has no battery life left his phone. according to what you can do, the specks that you can find online has four hundred minutes of call time of talk. Time We know that this one phone call the last phone call took forty seven minutes of talk time, that's one. Eighth of whole battery life right there now, top that he wasn't a good thumb on top he's had multiple calls with mom and dad before this last one he's all gone to two parties that night

This fund is basically a rock with antenna he left his home by all accounts around six p m that night, so he's been gone. It's now three in the morning he's been gone, like nine hours. So I'm getting at here in our charter, though that's very possible but I'm getting at here is, it is very likely that he could have been talking to in talking pulled the phone away looked at the screen and went oh shit org. some kind of notification that he heard on his end by his father in here oh shit and then the phone goes dead, simply be as the battery life ran out. The thing here is doesn't get us any closer to what happened to Brandon. But what I'm getting at is what I think is is polarizing about that case. This case is that phone call where I think it's just kind of confusing in its

really clouding the whole situation. The phone call in him saying oh shit, may mean nothing at all could be something super small, something as simple as is phone dying and then whatever took place of place after he no longer had the use of his phone. I do think that there is some type of accident that took place out there at the lead to his demise, that he probably did succumb to the elements at some point. That evening. And I think it is very likely that he is somewhere in that area that they ve been unable to search, for any number of reasons that forty percent of the area, I think that's, I think, that's what it what happened here. I think everything that the people that are closest to this case are Aim is probably exactly what happened. He wasn't that messed up. He just he got disoriented, because the area itself is confusing.

it's late at night. It's not well marked its. It would be confusing for anybody travelling in that area, each ride to turn around, because he knew how to go an extra mile or two to get to the next intersection. Any was frustrated and upset he wasn't home already, and he just one. The term around as quickly as possible. Any ran into the bad luck of getting his car hung up in the debt and then he ran into further bad luck of having indicators pointing to him that he may in fact be where he thinks he is. I think this is just one of those tragic cases in and unfortunately, I've heard state it's from his mother and from his sister littered just heartbreaking where his mother says I'm kind of come, the conclusion that we won't find Brandon in my lifetime and then his sister Add to that by going I'm starting to think won't find him in my lifetime yeah, because even if you take

yes at my theory, I lean mortgaged towards idea that he ended up in that river. Bomb. We know what what the water can do. Two bodies and and speed up the composition of the composition of the body. not to mention the weather out there being a little more extreme and colder, whether I then and then also, if you're, right, that he is somewhere in this forty percent that they haven't been able to search like you talked about Yeah farm equipment. You have you know a lot of this machinery. That's going to be coming through. You have animals, you, you have the the weather. Ah, you have all these things stacked up against you to actually find his remains right, and I the thing I want to

we now hear to captain is look, I'm sure, there's a lot of us out their listing the this in going? Well, whatever had Brandon would never happened to me. I have gps on my phone. I have a much different phone what Brandon had to carry back in two thousand and eight, let's let's be smarter than that lets. Take this step further. Put some things in your vehicle. Put some safety precautions in your vehicle, flashlights him a minor handsome he may he may have, but it was a young kid this. I think this just to this, was a friendly reminder to me or an unfriendly reminder. However, you want to look at it a remit. Or to me that it's a good idea to have things like a flashlight: first aid kit flares However far you want to take this thing: blankets, some people put bottles of water in their vehicle. This

can happen to any of us and if you're better prepared, you might have a different outcome. Yeah, and even though I really think my my gut feeling was correct and then even if it's not correct that I'll ugly more towards yeah. Ok. Well, maybe he made it out of the water and now I just haven't found them in that that forty per cent that hasn't been searched. I can go with that that one of the things that really makes me ponder this case. More is the vehicles left in both doors are open. That doesn't make lot of sense to me. It seems one super strange to me and a bit creepy and scary at the same time it that's. The only indicator throughout this whole story that whatever brandon was telling his father and his mother. That's something totally different could have been going on

That's the only indicator to me one one way that I've tried to apply some just very basic logic to why that the car doors be open. Obviously, if somebody came along and try to wanted to steal something or look for something value in the car. That's an obvious thing right, but I so I wondered if look we're trying to use lights earlier in in this whole thing as a way of finding one another by flashing lights, pardon me wonders if Brandon look, we know he was a smart guy. There's nobody disputing that. I wonder if we he's troubleshoot shooting his problem here. If he thought I'm gonna head off on foot walking northwest towards this town, yes, to meet my father there, but he still on The belief at that time that he is in the area of where his father is searching right. So is it possible that he thought I'll take this step further

leave the car door open or doors open this leaving on the light inside of the car that my father might see so he doesn't find me at least he finds a car, and I can we use that as a landmark or to meet up. So I kind of thought that the only thing that did makes they punches a whole and that thought in theory, is it. You think this might have been discussed between and in his father, and it wasn't as far as we know, yeah, see that detailed to me seems like something: that's gonna keep this, MR around for awhile right and his father and mother not only lead the search that night

and really push to get law enforcement involved as quickly as possible, but they continue to lead the search for all these years in all missing children. Cases are difficult. I think there is an element of the fact that you both work yet getting up that night to go help. Him makes it even more difficult as well, and I hope and pray that his mother sister are wrong in their thought and their belief that they ve kind of come to the idea that they may never know what happened to Brandon in throughout their the course of their lifetime. I hope that their wrong with that that the family, this is gonna, be haunting for them, and they ve already kind of come to the idea and somewhat accepted the idea that brad

And very likely no longer with us, but to have some answers would would be very big for them in this situation. Now there is a thing today called brandons law, and this is because of brandons parents, Annie and Brian Swanton are responsible for the enactment. of brandons law, which became effective in minnesota on July. First, Two thousand and nine. This law requires minnesota police. to begin and immediate search for missing adults under twenty one as well is older adults who are missing under suspicious circumstances, and brandons situation certainly falls into that. Regardless of what theory you favour or believe, the swan since kept the porch light on for their son. They burn through many light bulbs, in the eleven years he has been missing brian swans

has acknowledged that the family likely won't find Brandon alive, but they still want to find him. Has never been a memorial service for branded brandon sis is now married and Brandon now has two nephews which he has never met the sky Since we want to know what happened to their son. They say quote: you know: people don't just vanish into thin. Air but it sure seems like he did our captain before we read things up this week, how about a little recommended reading. We have one from our good friend, good friend, of the show Billy jensen, his new book called chase darkness with me captain you and I hung out with billy at crime khan, and he was kind enough to send a couple of copies of chase darkness with me to the garage We can't wait to read it. That's by billy Jensen. You don't have to write,

Title down, though, because you can go to true crime garage, dotcom click on the record. and a page, and we will have that title for you, along with other recommendations, Ghana, and he owed us the book because he thought than are bob rough was gonna out. Drink me, but like we now like everybody knows Barbara said good night, therefore disqualifying himself, and make me the winner of the dream, content that crime consul. Thank you billy, and then you bob for quitting on the drinking

dust. That's right all right until next week, everybody out there be good, be kind, is don't let.