The the welcome to true gram garage where you are whatever you are doing, thanks for listening, I'm your host Nick and with me, as always guy that, amongst all of the nuts he is the head cashew, ladies and gentlemen, the captain that you thank you thank you. It's good to be seen, and it's good to see you thanks for the

steam decks for Tom. A friend this week. We are featuring seventh son american, strong ale by the good folks over at seven son in Beautiful Columbus, Ohio Garage grade four and three quarter bottle caps out of five. This beer just as suggested strong, seven point: seven percent a b and one of my local favorites and this week's beer was brought by some of our non local favorites right here. First up a big thanks and cheers too. Windy and Portland Oregon and a big shot up to EMU and Tyler from Louisville Kentucky next up we have just been in SALT Lake City and his friend Deirdre and a big we like your jib to Angela and Aloha Oregon next the cheers to Molly who says try Monday night brewing, which Bali

Adler. We can't get that here. So if you wish to send some beer, the address is on our website. Thank you to everyone for going to that website. True crime garage dot com and helping out with this week's beer fund based If you follow us on social media, Facebook, twitter Snapchat can find us at true crime garage. And that's enough for the business everybody gather around grab a chair grab beer. Let's talk some true crime Brian Randall Schaefer grew up in Pickerington Ohio, a suburb of Columbus is the oldest of Randy and Renee Schaefer's, two sons, Brian graduated from high school in nineteen. Ninety seven and went on to attend the Ohio State University

six years later, he graduated with the degree and microbiology in two thousand and four he began studies at Ohio States, college of medicine. During his second year of studies in March of two thousand and six, his mother Renee, sadly passed away due to cancer. Brian's friends say that, although he appeared to be handling it fairly well, her death was very hard for him the Brian had a lot of friends to help and support him. He also became romantically involved with a fellow second year, medical student Alexis Wagner she along with their families and friends, believe that Brian would probably be proposing to her most likely on a trip to Miami. The couple planned for the beginning of April.

On February March, thirty first classes at Ohio State ended for spring break. The next week, Brian and his father, Randy Schaefer celebrated the accounts by going out for a steak dinner that evening, Randy. did the Bryan seemed exhausted from his studies and cramming for some important exams at nine p M Brian met his friend Clint Florence. At the ugly tuna saloona, a bar in the South campus gateway complex on high street, An hour later, Brian called his girlfriend Alexis. she was away. Returning to hometown in Toledo about two and a half hours. I from Brien's location to visit with their family, where she and Brian were due to depart from. I am from their brining Clint went bar hop,

visiting several other drinking establishments and where their way down to the arena district and he stopped the two had one shot: each. According to Clint after midnight, the two met cleanse friend, Meredith Red in the short north. She gave them a ride back to the ugly tuna saloon and the three of them went into the bar for one last round of drinks. At some point, Brian separated from his friends saying he was going to go talk to the ban as closing time was approaching Clinton. Meredith say they were looking for calling him repeatedly unable to find him. They left the bar with the other patrons when the bar closed at two am. Then they waited outside for Brian, but never saw him.

They assumed he had gone back to his apartment, with letting them know girlfriend Alexis Father Randy Schaffer. Both tried to call Brian later that weekend, but he did not answer on the morning of Monday April. Third, Brian missed the flight to Miami that he and Alexis has scheduled long before at that time. Twenty seven year old, Brian Shaffer was reported missing to the Columbus police Department. The investigation led police back to the ugly tuna bar, where Brian was last seen. The south campus gateway bar has security cameras, detectives review the footage which showed Brian Clint and Meredith going up an escalator to the bars main entrance at one hundred and fifteen a dot m. Then I could be seen again,

this time outside of the bar around one. Fifty five, fifty five talking briefly with two young women, the two women leave in the seen moving off camera in the direction of the bar, apparently to re, enter later Clint told police? tat he had seen Brian after he returned inside the bar and they were planning to leave, but he lost track of him. However, what investigators could not find on this?

here. The camera footage was Brian, leaving the bar when the ugly tuna closed to add to the mystery back at Brian's apartment on King Avenue, just six blocks away from the ugly tuna his car was found still parked outside inside the apartment. Nothing seemed out of place and nothing appeared to be missing. Flyers of Brien's picture showing a stick figure tattoo on his upper right arm were distributed in the Columbus Police Department was asking the public for their help. The stick figure tat too, is from the cover artwork for the song alive by Pearl JAM, brokenhearted Alexis called Brian cell phone every evening before going to bed for a long time after the disappearance. Usually it went directly

it's voicemail, but one night in September it actually rang three times a ping from the phone was detected at a cell tower and Hilliard just fourteen miles, northwest of Columbus, singular Brien's wireless provider said what Alexis heard may have been due to a computer glitch in September of two: I was eight during a heavy windstorm in Central Ohio father, Randy Schaefer was out, in his yard clearing debris abroad. Broke off from a nearby tree and fatally struck him neighbor found his body the next morning and called police after Randy's obituary ran online. Condolence book was posted one of the signatures posted read to Dad love Brian. U S virgin islands.

This suggested Brian might have left Columbus for new life elsewhere. However, upon further investigation, the note was found to have been posted from a computer accessible to the public in the greater central Ohio area, and it was determined to be a hoax Brian Schaefer has been missing since April. First of two thousand and six, he is called Kazan, six foot two inches tall with light brown, hair and hazel eyes at the time of his disappearance. He was approximately a hundred Sixty five, two hundred and seventy pounds, he was wearing jeans, a short sleeve polo shirt over a white, long, sleeve shirt, white, Adidas sneakers and a yellow cancer awareness bracelet,

Brian was twenty seven years old at the time of his disappearance in two thousand and six, but recently would have celebrated his fortieth birthday authority, I do not believe Brian left of his own accord, but it is unclear what caused his disappearance if you have any information concerning this case, please contact the Columbus police department at eight hundred and seventy seven, six hundred and forty five eight thousand four hundred and seventy seven. If you do not wish to speak to the police, you can submit your tip to the central Ohio crime stoppers at stop crime, org or call them.

at six hundred and fourteen four hundred and sixty one, eight thousand four hundred and seventy seven back in twenty. Sixteen. We covered the missing persons case of Brian Shaffer, and it has since become one of our red light cases, one of our favorite missing persons, cases that has intrigued us and the there's throughout the years. Joining us in the garage were so happy to see you guys time, friends of the show, TIM and Lance from crawl space. missing Maura Murray from how many podcast do you guys have like

and now all of them, except this one. Okay- and I actually I just heard that they bought half of our show the sale is currently in the works so by the by the time these episodes over my half, he bought my half well welcome to the garage guys? Thank you very much is beautiful yeah thanks for having us it's a lot more cosy than I anticipated it's very nice here. Could you tell us a lot? about your projects first with the crawlspace and then missing, more Marie, I'm TIM, and we we cover a lot of missing person, cases recover some murder cases. We can abounds around a little bit on crawl space, but we will do can accomplish of looks into certain cases like Brianna Maitland for one week so do missing Maura Murray. That is ninety eight epic

the deep at the current moment on the missing Mauro, Mary and with cross space, we try to speak with people who were like minded in in the January, so criminals, I colleges, investigative journalists, other podcast, There's, whether it's you no true crime, pod casters or maybe somebody that too has a connection to it and so yeah we tried it. be sort of a little bit more all encompassing would crawl space there's also empty frames, which sees in one was about the Isabella Store, Gardener Museum heist in Boston, which is probably the most significant art haste in history, at least in America and we moved on from season one to season two. We started covering other art highs, other art crimes, other significant moments in in art, history, because I didn't realize how much we really liked it when we were glad we're doing empty frames, and we made a bunch of connections in these people would email us stories say well. Did you know about this? One did you know about this? Did you know that this is a fake and they thought it was

real, so it really I it really kind of piqued our interest Regarding the missing persons case of Brian Shaffer, I liken you guys to missing persons experts. Ninety some episodes of missing Maura Murray Captain and I have been long time. of that show, thank you. Do you guys remember the first time you heard about the Schaefer case? I think it was from you guys actually a couple years, go. I remembered seeing the a video of it and I dont even know where I saw the surveillance, video and then yes, I made the connection after hearing. You guys cover the case and then I realized that video that I saw that guy who left the bar and he was sort of on the edge of the frame of the balance video or that's that guy, and I can't remember when that video was released or where I saw it, but that that was the first time and it was I maybe it was like five or six years ago,

there- was like a nine minute segment on a national show. Years ago, yeah yeah case any of your I think that jumps off the page to you guys immediately any red flags just from your name, reaction. When you first learned about this missing persons case, because all these cases, the you guys discuss on your show that we discuss on our they're all unique in their own way. They all have their wise and housing. And what is that that you go into, but any first react since that you remember having your first thoughts regarding this case, confusion and it is, is really gotta, be one of the most perplexing missing person cases that I've ever looked into because the cases that we cover like Maura, Murray, Ameri, Brantome and we're dipping our toned branded Brandon Lawson a little bit? I feel like they have our that are a little more grass gravel graspable this is just star. I don't know.

I've been banner and ideas in my head in its very confusing. One thing that is really confusing to me is that, like TIM said, we were However, more Murray, Brianna Maitland, and loss in a sea of a single person in a single incident not surrounded by Anybody else that that is in the immediate vicinity. You know there might be a two to hear their, but with with Brian Schaefer he's in a bar, that's very busy and there's a lot of people and he he leaves, and you have security image of him leaving and going back in one time and then there's there's no security, footage of his actual exit. That was, you know, led to his disappearance. So all These things any talk to the band. You know all of these things were like. Will this person is it really seem like they intended to disappear? Did the heat slipping into an axe? and there's no real.

Stance in his life that you can absolutely pinpoint sable. This is why he's he's leaving my there's nothing in his life. That is any different from, things things that have happened in my life or other people's lives right and they haven't disappeared. I also think, with missing person cases in general, that when we don't have pieces of evidence- or we don't know what the story is, we tend to start making it up, and so, what's weird with a bright Schaefer case, is you have to prove? There is no evidence that he left the bar beauty ceiling. Saying it's like there's a lot of times where it's like you can go. Well, maybe he went back to his apartment. Maybe he went to somebody else's house, but you can't there's no evidence of him actually leaving the bar safely. That night

well in, what's really truly at the center of this case, and I think it's why it became such a internet sensation, you know, is the whole surveillance footage of Brian going into the bar. Then we Him come out briefly speak with some young ladys, and then it appears that he's re entering the bar, and I think that the whole thing of having no footage and, as a captain pointed out no proof that he ever left that bar or that building is really the the thing that jumps off the page or in a way that I think that the quick leap that everybody wants to do and it's just natural. Is you have less questions about Brian who he is what was going on in his life right, less questions about who he was with that night or, as you said, you know he's in a public place surrounded by a whole bunch of people shortly before we no longer know where he is, and I think the

Natural reaction in the natural leap is to go. I have a lot of questions about this bar sure I've a lot of questions about this building. I have a lot of questions about this area, which I think is unique to this case yeah. But what makes it makes it even more unique because this structure was a newer build, so it wasn't like some bar that people have been in their whole life, so even talks around town people would go. Oh yeah, he went missing from the ugly tuna. Have you been there? I've never been there.

Any sense, yeah that that makes a lot of sense and because you want to somehow identify with it. It says it is another piece of the mystery that you have to put together in your head and you have to start there and you have just right. You have to start their general description of this building and bar captain must try to go through that four for everybody, so that the bar itself is inside of a building their second floor. Second floor. It share it's the building with some other businesses. It's a lot of things have changed with that building throughout the years. Obviously, this case's now thirteen years old, but and so the bars on the second floor, there's basically one entrance to and from the bar we'll call that the main entrance to and from the bar that goes.

in the bar to the building to the second floor of the building, and then you take the escalator up and down to get to the main entrance of the building right. So, let's just go you you walked through there's a big part in garage you park there. Normally you walk through a courtyard you get to the ugly tuna. You go through the main doors you have to go up there.

the later then there's a little landing platform and then to the right. Is the entrance to the bar once you're in the bar, it's basically a square and then there's little patio space outside, but it's it's a cool patio because you're on the second floor, so he can kind of look down onto the courtyard and looked down on Sir High Street, which is the main street of the campus. But what law enforcement tells us is what we have footage of the escalators and weed and what they claim is. There is no record of brine, leaving that escalator that night, the other back way out, which would be for the ban, which would be for service workers of the bar and possibly somebody that was in the bar, a customer that left the wrong way wean. No,

through conversations with the band in some of the people at work there, even security that that door, the Ex adored, didn't, have a camera on it, but what it did have was there was a long haul way to get to the exit and that at a camera on it, and they claim that there is no sign of Brain Schaefer going down that always and that's a straight hallway. Well. I've never been in that hallway, it's basically again you're on the second floor, so it's a hallway, that's going to lead you to possible elevator or stairway re. So, but we just know that if you take the bar, which is basically a square that once you leave, that front door had be kind of hard not to be seen by that escalator and then the back exit theirs

alway, that that is monitored by a camera and they claim now they never released that footage. Now I have never heard the lead. Detective Hearst actually talk about the back hallway. It was as that secondary detective. I believe Detective Edwards he's pretty clear that we don't see Bryan on that video at all, yet because if they did see him, what what do you think the law enforcement's response would be to the public that he left the bar that rate, so they, you think- and I I agree I'd like to you think that law enforcement would give us an official statement saying we did see him exiting through the through the service. Daffy Arbela Buzz less be a little more clear too, because you go hey this guy, never left the bar and we haven't seen em. So did he die in the bar? Was there thereof? Was there a foul play in

the bar, and there is no evidence of that right. The bar was super cooperative with the police. I believe they actually shut down for a couple days and and let them search everywhere, and so there's no sign of struggle. No sign of foul play inside the bar. So it's it's almost like poof. He vanish into thin air resolutely and to put it in it's simplest form when we say he he never left the the building. He never left the bar. We have no proof that he left law enforcement took that a step further, where we not only is everyone entering the bar going up the escalator, they went back and they accounted for every person that they could see going in and every person. sea going out, Brian being the only one that that they never could locate can never speak to. They spoke everybody that was there that night so much so

that there was an individual that they were calling orange sweatshirt, guy or Orange sweater Guy it for awhile and that's because there was an individual that came into the up, the escalator that amount, footage and then of sun there's later when they closed. There's this mysterious visual that they didn't see come into the bar and they could identify that individuals wearing an orange sweater or sweatshirt. It took a while They tracked down that guy and he had what everybody would it's a believable story. I went into the bar wearing this outfit, and I brought my sweatshirt with me. I got cold, I put it on and left with it on. That's why I look different may have appeared to be a different person on surveillance footage, so all these or accounted for now. There are obviously a lot of theories out there regarding this disappearance of Brain Schaefer, but one of the more dominant theories, while some of the more dumb

theories are, did someone murder Brian? Did he kill himself is he still alive? You know, did did the death of his mother just three weeks before the disappearance and the stress of medical school, oz him to run away from his life for them longest time. I thought somehow he got out of the bar, even though we don't see him made it down the stairs and left the building. This obviously would be difficult with the cameras, but if he did and this is what I have always kind of thought. I believe this was my theory when we first covered it was that this was simply

in a robbery that went bad, his apartment was six blocks away. It's quite conceivable being drunk and missing his ride after the bar closes that he would just walk on what let's go through that first. Second, too, so Brian goes up the escalator he's with his friend Meredith and Clint to friends that he has been out drinking with all night and he's pretty flirty with some women Douglas tuna? At some point there gwan, hey Brian, we gotta go, and he goes. I'm gonna go talk to the band. They then say: wait, they didn't see him. Maybe he went to the bathroom date. I believe they claim that they checked the bathroom and they also called Brian. I think several times. Let him know hey we're, leaving and plus the bars closing, so they don't hear from him, so they take off we and we have them on footage, leaving the parking grudge. I do

point out something real, quick here too. On that note, captain regarding them, saying his friends, Meredith and saying. While we checked the restrooms we're looking for our friend right. The layout of the bar is such that the restrooms there's a very little hallway. I mean it's like two steps into this hallway and you very quickly can the women's restroom or the men's restroom little hallway containing the restrooms is very close to the main entrance of the bar. So it's not like I went to the other side of the bar check the restrooms and he could have slipped out the front door without them. The friend seeing them they would

and in a prime position had he been either using the restroom in the restroom or or attempting to leave, but also this bar such a square, that if you walk into the front entrance and me there's a little bit of a knook that you have to get into the bar, but once you're actually into the bar, you can pretty much see the whole lay out. A bar of your friend was way over in the corner, I could see him so very strange and then, for the longest time we didn't know what the name of the band was, and luckily, with the n, a new, let's say investigator on the case Nicholas West, he was able to come out and say: hey we. We know the name of the band and the band is called rock house and we were able to actually talked with all three individuals and they didn't have anything spectacular to say cause. They don't remember talking to him

the, so bright. wanted to talk to the band at like one, fifty five or something that's. What I've read and the bar closes to say so around one. Fifty five is he is seen going to talk to the band, and you just said that the band has no recollection of speaking to him and the bar closes at two there's. A bunch of people that now exiting we've all been in bars where it's the end of the night, Let's go on and the bound to go through and the staff goes through their like our right, everybody out. I so no sees him from after one fifty five. And no one sees them after two to win the entire.

bar is evaluated, not evacuated but cleared out and here's. The thing is, I actually argue so, let's just go through a little bit of what the guitar player told me. Okay and I actually played with this guy in a band, for I want say at least five years. This guy was very meticulous on how he loaded in his gear how he unloaded gear. He was the up most professional- and I learned so I mean ten years older than me, but I it's like you play a gig with him and you go all that's how it's done and the guy would get to the gig pull up his car to whatever the the entrance was unload his stuff and at the end of the night, whether he took his guitar out to the car first or his guitar amp out to the car first. He almost did it the same way ever

at the time you played with him, it was like, and he so I said, hey what do you know about that night? He goes while I know I was there. I know don't remember much, but they did have a handful of friends that came out to party with them because it was around spring time and everybody's like hey. Let's go. Check out rock house, and I believe it was like, maybe the second time they ever played there. They had to go through this back way, which there was no camera on, and he remembered that there was no camera on the back, because was ask him over and over a you. Are there the night Brian Shaffer went missing? Was a camera on the back door is like now there wasn't, but they have the the band on footage going down that hallway or that's what the detectives claim. So he says

fuckin, he didn't doesn't remember talking to a guy. He also is the type of guy that wouldn't give a guy much of time to talk like all you want to talk about guitar, I don't really care, so he loaded up his stuff. He remembers, having explore at the time and, as he's loading up their explore his buddies, not unlike customers left the same way he laughed and they're all around his car and also states, there's three guys in the band they left the same way. All of our bodies left the same way and people that worked in the bar left that way. So there was a herd of people that Through that backer entrance- and I wonder if that's where the detectives or or missing something did they have to be missing something when they say that everybody was accounted for, that's not accurate, they

that can't be possible because we do have true Ryan got out of the bar? It's true right! If well, if would he get out of the bar without being seen on either one of those cameras- I dont know right so can get out of the bar and he didn't crawl up into the ceiling tiles yeah I was gonna, ask about the roof. I mean I I like our to Elisa Lam a little bit, but was there, are obviously searches of the roof and things like that, I'm sure that's interesting arrest. I don't think we've ever guns that type of discussion actually with anybody. I've talked about this It's a thousand times. What about the restroom? Is there a window because now you're saying the roof? Okay, so no window, so how would he get to the roof so Rick? Regarding the ban situation that the the stage it's health is like you know. It's not like separated from the crowd in any one can just walk right up to this little stage and talk to the bandit type that the two times that I have been there. It's not common for people in the crowd.

handing people on stage drinks There is a lot of little interaction right, so it's not unheard of the brain. very well could have spoke to anyone in the band. Maybe everyone in the band- and they call him because he's just another guy at the bar just another, twenty something that they talk to fifty different people. that looked like him that night while and we're and we're all dudes. I mean, let's be honest: if you're playing guitar and there's a bunch of girls there to talk to you. Are you going to take the time out to talk to them or some dude you'd never met, but it's also the type of bar that they, the management, did notch. You know frown upon the the band getting nice and toasted, why there were there as well, so that there is one little? There is an interesting thing that I that I've recently heard on this case is there was another exit from the bar, and that was a fire exit

So this would be one that is clearly marked this. As you know, if you open this door, the alarm will sound. Ok, you know so you it's not really a public entrance or exit The interesting I thing that I heard recently and I have no way of verifying this, but some and it was there that night, someone that spoke with brian- and this would be one of the women that were outside that we see him on surveillance, footage of one hundred and fifty five go outside and talk to just outside of the bar still inside the building. he has said that it was somewhat common knowledge to the regulars of the ugly tuna that that you could open that fire exit. It without any alarm actually sounding gone and limits not be there it. It doesn't have to be common for regular it like Brian wasn't really a regular there, but all he had to do is see somebody. Do it once that night,

Otherwise, they so drunk he ignored. The sign right, true, in in re, it's Ibl well from what I've been told that fire exit will lead into what is the construction? What would have been the construction area at that time is up behind the building. So captain help me out with that. That would I they I taught a lie about. Like I said it's a new new or build so allowed people talked about that there was construction happening, some other restaurants and the building work complete. Yet some of the stores weren't complete, yet that speculation is

kind of a thrown out the window recently, claiming that the stores for the most part were done. There was some construction going on some light: construction, some drywalling and stuff, like that, the major construction was in the basement that there was the. I don't believe that the stores were separated yet in the basement, and I think they were trying to separate those to give them possibly storage. And now talking with the ban, they said: hey there was some construction, but not anything that you're going to like fall in a pit. Your death. And now this has been mom put out in the public lately and people have been you put this out on the internet and a lot of people come back on you, while you don't know for sure, and because that's one of the big things on the internet is that he.

fell into a hole and got dry walled over or fell into a hole and they put cement on him or he he fell, wherein accidentally died in the construction company buried him inside the building and to cover it up. His interesting I'm looking at this on Google Earth the building and so parking garage has always been their correct and that behind it and it's right on a corner? So the construction was in like the little courtyard here on the side, it looks like you can walk through a courtyard where they probably have tables right it doesn't. What I'm saying is, I don't see an area where a construction site would be so big and and sort of treachery dangerous, yeah yeah no like like big holes. There were. There was nothing that he could have fallen into or anything like that. I mean I it's hard to believe matter how drunk he is hard to believe he could. Impale

himself or somehow accidentally kill himself while walking through that and then all of a sudden what happens on the person, who saw him just took him. Why we're talking about search sites. Yet once they, you know a couple of days after he goes missing. We have hundreds of people in that area in that bar searching. So I don't think it's that far fetched that the guy could have had an accident and and hurt himself. I don't think it's that far fetched, but what's far fetched is the buildings, not huge, I mean, and if you have hundreds of people searching for him, they're going to they're going to come across an injured Brian Shaffer, so right so yeah, it's not far fetched for someone to get into an accident, hit their head, hurt or hurt. I mean even if he fell and hit his head, the the wrong way and- and it kills him so then what happened to his body

who's, who saw that I have a hard time, believing that management group of a bar. Why it would look very bad, would suddenly and to cover character this body up, let's dispose of it, I find it really hard that normal people would go so far left of center and deviate off of the regular way of thinking and not have one person say guys. We should just call the cops and we we'll work this out. I mean there might be a lawsuit, but we'll figure this out they weren't going to be culpable for, has death. You know I don't like I mean if they were weren't, I mean you normally will have that conversation right. I mean, I guess legally, there may be an argument, but its leg in that's an era. Salt lake now, however, approached him are found. Him killed him. So Would it's really hard to wrap your head around the idea that one came across a deceased brains Four and the like jets,

with his body called a friend. You know when to bury him one person's not doing man now and two makes it more unlikely to because then you have two people involved to write to That's why I've always wanted. You guys look into this case because It's funny to me that somebody can look into a case like this and then make the leap that these constructs workers that we don't know who they are. We make the leap that they came across a guy that had an accident and he's dead and they covered it up or there is some thought that they constructed over him on accident they didn't see him. But as we just discussed, this is an area where we're talking about huge pits in, and you know crevices or anything like that, or that it wasn't checked right in India. Thing too that we should keep in mind, and I understand that you know everybody as their own work schedule, but he's last seen at one fifty five ish,

he he entered that. You know they're out partying on a Friday night. So now this is very early Saturday morning he's missing legitimate Lee missing by per law enforcement by Monday morning? So, if, if if nobody was working on that concern on Saturday Sunday. The law enforcement was back in that building. I would say what, by noon at the latest right I mean that was the first place there that I mean they made. It could make a couple phone calls and then they go straight to that building. To look for this individual on Monday on my so it seems unlikely to that, did it he would be overlooked and accidently constructed over yet and also ever dogs were brought to the scene and they didn't hit on anything right for my understanding. So that would tell you that that he probably wasn't constructed over. So

regarding that, jumping back to that fire exit that led to the the construction area and there was an exit you could walk through the construction, construction area and exit the building and the detectives exact words are. That would be a difficult area to walk through sober but the work. I think people make the giant leap when I hear somebody say that difficult doesn't mean like right that it's at a death, a life or death situation, battle conditions- you know it's it could just be. You could trip and fall. You know, or it could be difficult to navigate your way, but the thing is even though some one could go out that door now what I've been told and what I've heard through interviews with the, detectives involved in this case is there was no- and I found this to be strange. There was

camera on that door that you could access from the fire exit through the construction area. However, what law enforcement has said on the record that they did they went to surrounding to neighbouring buildings and businesses that would have had surveillance in the area and they could determine that did they. They have no reason to believe that he left through that door. So little That was actually one of my questions. The police looked at all the footage from surveillance cameras see tv that were available that our available in the neighborhood in both directions and found nothing but he's on the roof, he's gonna be on the roof. I mean. Where does this person go? how, in the world does this person unless he changed and put on a like a scarf around his face or something he a hoodie something

But while I cite one particular specific incident where there were I believe there was a scent that the dogs hit on and it was in the direction of the Wendy's restaurant, which I I don't. I don't know the particulars of where that would have been. I think in my be across the street right, but was that a dog that was tracking Brian's sense or I was at a cadaver- die they. The law enforcement later told his father Randy that it was probably just up a fluke e thing that they don't think that the dog was actually hitting on something regarding Brian that it might have been hitting on them. coming right at the end? The reason why he was able to tell Randy that is, I do know that they did review footage from the windows. Restaurant so and again found nothing to give anyone reasonable leave that he walked in that direction and Columbus, Ohio

It has a lot of surveillance cameras from what I understand as well, so he would have been picked up at some points on camera, when he was walking home right, I don't know how far they went into that yeah or some of these stores. At that time, because campus was going through their revamp in it, so there there make it a little bit nicer, low, more college friendly, renovate little more frightening for everyone. Actually, it was not so friendly of a place at three in the morning on a Saturday right. We do in the nineties you know, but I get it now you'd be eight miles out, walked anywhere at four o clock in the morning down so regarding where his apartment is in relationship to the ugly tuna saloon, a bar, it's my belief that once he got off the main strip there, he six blocks away down King Avenue and

the the business, is, there's not many on King Avenue. There's a big church, there's a whole bunch of like apartments, and these are. This is kind of an old area than old street old buildings. Parliament's. It's my belief and I'm a very firm on this. Is that once he got off that Mean Strip, I don't think there would have been any surveillance right or or or much to pick him up or anyone. Whether one thing I can't get out of my head is Well, you know what, when you're in a bar when you're in a location or anywhere, you know you're, often being videotaped, and you don't know you don't you don't know it you're, not aware of it. And furthermore, you don't know where you are on the frame. So if you're trying to hide from her surveillance camera that you don't know what the frame how you're going to do the seems impossible.

like, I said before, we love Foresman, release the footage of the escalator and I believe at some point right after you went missing. There was a website. I believe they would send me to and reside in our long footage is basically fifteen minutes before the bar close to an hour later. and I remember watching the whole hour or whatever was released to the public. Now it's just like a couple of short clips. You see the clip of him going up the escalator. You see him talking to the two girls just outside the bar, and then you see him you see some people leave in the bar, but you don't see Brian obviously, but they ve never released. That back Paul way footage, and I just wander I'd really like for them to release both of the footage is because I think

now with people with train eyes or this arm chair detectives. How many people could sit there at the work instead of being on Facebook and go through this footage and maybe pick up on something that they I let's see yeah that's a great point, but I think if they were to release those those videos, then you would have people have photographed like the band members, for example, so you'd have to blur their faces out and then, if you put out a video with people's faces being blurred out the people, the armchair, detectives, are going to be like. How do we know? That's not Brian right. Well, why you blur out somebody's face. Why wouldn't you want if you're law enforcement? That's what they do? You don't. You don't want regulars. You know Ed approach in these these people and saying I you what would you did? Yeah? That's true, that's true, and I'm going to give a couple statements that are going to contradict themselves, but regarding that back hallway footage, let's call it that okay, this back hallway, they say

seeing the footage they saw the ban. They saw other individuals leave through this area. I I've got to believe there. There is no reason, I don't find anything weird about them, not releasing it. What what I think we would have here is if they had reason to believe or any type of actual evidence, that they believe that he after the bar alone or left with someone that would be the statement that that would be the same as they would be because you need the public's help. You need some Don't you need the public to get off this idea of the building in the bar and go ok. While did I see something on the street that least the general direction, we saw him walking towards this street. It's only weird in this situation, because we have this mystery about someone vanishing into thin air, never leaving a bar with every other case, where

have a scenario: that's exactly the same, but there's evidence or something to suggest that they did leave your location, be it alone or with other people. What is the statement enforcement always gifts. What is missing last leaving the bar alone, seen, leaving the bar with other individuals. We not only like information regarding this missing person, but we so I want to know who these individuals are that work. This person was seen leaving with and so that would be there that there is no reason for them not to release that type of statement. So I think that we can firmly set there is nothing to indicate to the investigators that are closest to this case that that they have proof that he left the bar. Now,

Here's where I go to the other end of this, including on contradict this. I think that day, while they dont have any proof that he left the bar. I think that all of the investigators, all the detectives at work this case the longest I think than they were not, and they ve not been on record to say this. I think they I believe that he left the bar, and these are season. Detective la ends are smart individuals and the reason why I say that is because we ve had at least one of the detectives that said you know ever since that case any time I'm in a large crowded area, I'm looking for Brien's face. Well, if you did if he didn't believe that he left the bar he's not looking for Brien's face, and you know in the crowd and police, don't often speak metaphorically right, he's not saying his face haunts up the missing person cases can mess with you in that way, though, for sure and make you think, irrational things, I do I do

If agree that I I can see why law enforcement would but- If that he is out there somewhere, because he's not in the bar now. Would he pardon me for mispronouncing. This isn't the only keep one Henry Olin would he be? crossing that river, the Olentangy River on his way home either. I don't believe. I don't think so now that another route from in not the most direct route from the bar to his house waters, not that far from the Barbara Ray you wouldn't be crossing some bridge because that's the other speculates yet who, as you know, guys, stop to take a piss off and felon. the into the river they'll, get swept away, not a trace of him Deborah.

Yeah, but Brian would have to actually go out of his way to hit any eye of water unless he was. But that's the thing, though to is if he gets out of the bar. So let's put that the words note, there is no sign of struggle. There is no sign of our play when I have talked to security guards myself, they ve said The whole idea that somebody couldn't get out of that complex or that bar without being seen on video footage, absolutely nonsense. That's what security has stated. That's obviously not weigh. The detectives in this case have stayed its not incredibly easy, but it's not impossible

what they're saying, but, but when you I used to play at a bar across the courtyard, and I talked to a lot of security guards and a couple of them said look I bet every weekend. There is multiple people that leave that complex without being seen on on footage like a clear cut. Oh I know that's so and so that left the bar. So there goes the car So that's coming from security guards and the coming from the band they're convinced that when they left that there was customers that there was their friends, there's people that worked at the bar when your body tells you a guy that you know really well, it wouldn't surprise me if, if Brian was in that group of people when we left what about the parking garage, his friends Clinton, Meredith yeah camera footage from those two from the parking garage. Yeah Clinton. Meredith guess: ok, so there's

we're footage of them walking back to their car. Well, the captain to clear that up for me, because I've I've heard the same thing to that there is camera footage in that parking garage which, which makes sense. This is a even to this day, now being thirteen fourteen year old parking garage is still very well lit, as it looks brand new. Right is its bright, is all get out like you, the UK there's not a dark corner in that the parking garage. But, regarding the footage, do you know? If that's you, footage of incoming and outgoing cars and vehicles, or is it footage of people that you can see some people walking because what they did now and what it there's a video somewhere. I think it was like. I said like you were saying earlier. This was covered for like nine to ten minutes on a date line or nine to ten minutes on a twenty twenty or something, and at some point they have a investigator walking from the parking garage,

and we know that their walk through these two pillars and then they walked out the door to the the double door to the court art, and then they went up task later. So if you know that they went through these two pillars, you're seeing them on video foot right? And so there is a long time when I put played that same area where at park on the same side, try to walk the same way that they did Anne, and we know from his is a it's a paid garage, so clear, Meredith had to have a exit ticket, so they have evidence that Clinton, Meredith left the winner, a part they're right when when they said they left right? So here's here's a quick little run down of the end of the night events, as I

your stand them, and now I'm taking some pieces from people stories and piecing them together to kind of make it a longer time line that makes sense to me, according to clear statement, is once brine came back into the this is after talking to the two girls just immediately outside the main entrance to the bar that he saw Brian enter the bar. This is Clint words on the record. We saw him and enter the bar. We lost track of em at some point and then before we knew it was time to leave. So let's extend that on both sides, a little bit. So at some point I the way that I've envisioned this going down. Is that Brian says to Clint and or Meredith I'm going to go talk to the band or keep in mind. This is a this. Have been allowed crowded area. We know there's a band playing, even if it's a break in music. There's a lot people talking and shouting, he could have

said, I'm going to go talk to fill in the blank right, have been anything they could amiss heard him. What we do know happens is he does go outside its fact. He seen on camera. He goes outside any talks to two young ladys. There is, of course, to their words. They exchange phone numbers I, but I believe they just gave him their numbers. I believe, is the way that this goes down. They leave those two girls leave, they don't go back in the bar Brian is seen moving as such that you would believe that he's re entering the bar, you can't physically see him walk through the doors. Then we have clear statement of we saw brine re enter the bar lost track of em, then its last, Well, it's time to go we're looking for him. We checked the restrooms, then we go outside with the rest of the patrons everybody else is ushered out through the doors now we're out

I waiting around milling about looking for him waiting for him to appear from leaving the bar and at some point Meredith starts, calling Brian phone, and we do know this happened because of one phone records in two somewhere. I a voicemail that she leaves- and I think she says something like it's just a real quick you know where the hell are you? You know it's something like that, and this all very the way you would think it would now we ve all been in this situation. The only difference is not. the went missing, none of our friends ever went missing. You know you, you get separated and you call them. You send a text while, let's let's stay on that point for a second, since this is a round table discussion? Have you ever been out with a group of friends that you you drove to that bar with three people or, however many people and you left without one of them? It I've been the guy who's who left I've been the guy. it left the group yeah. I left all of them there exit yes for what

mostly because what did you say that was, I should exit yeah. That's when you don't say goodbye, you just you're, just a little too drunk, usually yeah, and that's because You know if you stay you're going to get over that point of like too much drinking in, and you know your limit, so you you, you grace exit the situation now from there. I would walk to the train and take the public transportation back to my boom you're on camera and among camera. I am also. I am also like clearly intoxicated and still await, like I can remember doing so. I'm still aware of what I was doing because,

I left knowing that if I had one more, that would be too much so I it wasn't, it wasn't like. I was crazy blackout drunk. I knew that that that would be the case if I stayed, but now it's more common for a male to do this it's now or this to be a cause. I think sometimes, when people look into this case, they go I'd, never leave my friend alone and I'd argue yeah. I would if, if a free, if a female friend wanted to stay back and talk to the ban, I'm not leaving them, but if my buddy was like, I'm gonna go talk to the man it'd be like cool dude, I'm out, sometimes sometimes you just lose track, you're doing your own thing and I think the other question the narrative was always Brian was

want to go on vacation starting Monday and he was possibly going to propose to his girlfriend and so the idea that he was trying to hook up with anybody- and I think initially was like taboo to say like because he's missing. We don't want to say as evidence of him train a hook up with other girls, whether isn't you know he might have gotten someone's number drunk, but that's not hooking up with one while now boy not be cool, but but we do have their statement saying that he was aggressively hitting on them again, and I think that's yet again that that doesn't point two. Within that? He was trying to have a one night stand with anybody, but he's all

aggressively thirty months ago that he didn't know and did he have somebody else on the side did he have did brine, have an ex girlfriend that he called for hookups? Did anyone here about that? Well, so there's some speculation lately that his high school girlfriend, which was real close to him, he grew up and pick and in an she moved away for school, and there is a lot of rumours that been coming out lately that he had on a good on again and off again hook up relationship with her. So when she come back into town, they would hook up whether or not she had a boyfriend or whether or not he had a girlfriend. So but I am as far as that night, I don't think she was not even know if she's in town that night, what about his

mental psychological, autopsy yeah. What what's the mindset of some so in the thick of medical school. Why that person like outside of going out and having some shots and and drinking with buddies. This is a really driven guy, correct yeah, absolutely sit with is he was in college. see for six years at that point or seven year committed to being a doctor yet brow. I assume wonder to me. That's debatable whether he was committed to just because There's very strong evidence for both sides of that argument. Right, Here's one thing that I found interesting is that he worked at jcpenney at one point two.

That. I actually think he work, therefore, of a pretty lengthy ta and that's my point. He worked there for, I think four and a half to five years, and so that shows incredible commitment. I'd nine on any element I talked to tar, which has Tanya, maybe Levin to twelve years. I wanna preserving no more you're saying that, because he worked at a job for x amount of the years that he's driven, I would say that that that we know they're, saying committed, ok, yeah, there's a commitment,

I mean three or four years, because that's a pretty disposable job, no offense to anyone who works at Jc Penney. I think there's a lot of jobs actually like that exactly yeah. So if it didn't work out for whatever reason or he had to miss a shift and got fired or had to quit because of something awkward yeah, but how haven't got any? How many jobs did you know roughly in their twenties that were dating? Somebody for three years and you want to go other day for three years, they're committed, but you know that they're, not that good. it's. The relationship is all I'm saying is like just because you have a job for a long time. It could have been one of those jobs where it's like really hard to get fired, you do whatever you want. All I'm saying is, I think I mean it. I think it's safe. to assume that maybe he was committed, but. I think you have to because that's what that's all we have to go off of is what the record shows. The record would show that he was an employee for x amount of years, not x, amount of weeks or months. So

If we have held by argument is that we all know somebody, that's had the same job for a very long time that you would not state them as a committed employ to that employers. Ok, I see your plants yeah. I think I think what would TIM is more so talking about is committed, you that's the certain lifestyle that he has created and maintained right you know he's a longtime student of the same university he's a time, employee of the same employer, and so regarding his mental makeup. Let's say the unfortunate horrible thing Is his mother passes away like three weeks before he goes missing, and so he was very close, mother, there's no one to say anything different and no matter, even if you're not so apparent bilaterally heritage, its it's a tragic thing, yeah, a lot of people close in the circle.

Call him a mama's boy and and that's not a bad thing. He really cared about his mom yeah. What about his financial situation? was he going to inheritance. I guess so back to the the schooling thing: real, quick yeah, but where I was going with that is there there are several people in his family. That say he chose the medical field as a way of making his parents proud. It was. It was something that that was obvious, that they would be extremely proud. I have- and he was very according to. According to these individuals, he was very driven to become a to work in the field of medicine, a lot for his mother for that that that relation

Ship might be it whether she's around or not. Now that the difficult thing about the his mental make up would be his father did kind of, in my opinion, skew the narrative on brian- and this is not uncommon for parents or loved ones too,. champion or romanticize their missing or lost one, but You know the narrative that he kind of put forward and fed to the public is Brian was well on it way to graduating something that he hid. You know been why sing toward for many years. He was getting very good grades, always has he was going to propose to his girlfriend, probably It's vacation button, let's dive into that those things right there yeah, he never purchased,

ring. Ok, I was now- and I understand you- can you can ask somebody to marry you without a ring than while? Not our purchasing ring on the weaken it wasn't like there was. There was a couple days left right to be able to purchase, ring right, but there's theirs, but there's no end. Of him purchasing a ring to it. Actually, there's all this evidence saying he never did right. We don't know, he ever went and looked at anything or or pursued that his grades. He got if a few, if you talk to other family members and now his father's passed away. So we could we, we don't have him here. argue this, but the other family members say he got okay grades. It wasn't like it wasn't like you know. You know in less deems dean's list was an do. Ye Hauser account saying that a lot of the that he got excellent grades right. I think a lot of people would look at someone who's in medical school and wants to be a doctor, they're instantly like very, very smart. Do he well,

but I think sometimes again it's a missing person yo when your inner How was he as a student excellent? He was excellent and the whole that guy was a shitbag and showed up drunk all the time. But I can't say that cuz missing, but he's got, Degree in microbiology. Like I gotta be honest. I couldn't do that. I could wake up in the morning and get a degree yeah. I can commit myself as hard as I can that I don't think I'd be able to do it on after drinking the last night. I agree with you, so thank you. see a bit of the confusion regarding his lifestyle, though, where I firmly believe that that randy- maybe even unintentionally, were you the narrative Randy the five year are. Thank you. I think he can escape the narrative whether he did and knowingly or not and it might not mean anything at all, but I think what it is is its

or ways to suggest that something happened to my son, that was beyond my son's control and the the exact wording the police give. When they're seeking information regarding Brian's whereabouts or could have happened. Brian is it they do not believe that he left on his of his own accord, but there his disappearances, mysterious it's unexplainable. Yet This is disappearing right on the among the old Bing machine and it looks like there's a lot of new construction in the area. Some wondering what there is even a I know on earth here you can see a a construction site that has just been started and right across the street right. Obviously, that's a that's a new one. That is not the one from when he went missing, but there's a building in the corner that looks brand new does. Is this

the familiar you are with it. This looks brand new, but there's a camera right there on top of the building that that shows the entire intersection, which I think is interesting, because I I would just be curious if this building existed back then I also wanted them just on the surveillance topic. Real quick. I just wanted to mention that it a lot of bars had I've streams. Speck back ten fifteen years

Go on the internet and I actually looks like the ugly tuna saloon had alive stream yellow and which makes us little area, and we talked a lot about this last night- is pretty much any thing from that week in as far as promotion who the ban was the calendar, everything has been swept away. Yeah, that's that's alone. Foresman thing I think Yazzi it see, that's that's an arrest and because a lot of people think, while that safety on their part but law enforcement has said time and time again. This company has been very cooperative to us and its also weird thing too, because if he went missing south of Columbus, not by a high state campus, this would stay on. The internet. Information would stay on the internet longer

because it's connected to the university it gets buried in Google searches like they try to hide some of this stuff to who who who's day who's. of his age on international? Yes, it's the universities. Do it the university is trying to suppress some of the information that would be put out their job to them. We act their reputation, always seen this a couple times. Could joy lobby went missing around that area? Wasn't a student by any time that there's been a missing person from Ohio state. You get on Google its flooded initially, and then they barbarian. That's why that's why? I'm always on being because they do not want you. They do not want some somebody's parent, googling, Ohio State and the first thing that comes up is medical students. Missing the weeper, that with more american you mass as well, but on that site out of there

troll, designed with state of New Hampshire Right, will help the people who run the White Mountain region, Junior College in Rome and just went way way up a separate, merely school, for you I'll say that a community college, what about his cell phone? Yet? When did it stop ringing? That's weird, and we did it start ringing again and then stung. so his his girl from the try it repeatedly and then one day it. If so, he would always go to voicemail when she was trying it right at one is male yeah and the one dates. It rang like three times It seems like that It didn't ring at all from the beginning once they knew He was missing right, they would call- and it would just go straight to voice of that nights at that, so that Saturday and that Sunday, people are calling Brian now so

in the we know the girlfriend was calling on Saturday. It's just you know. Boyfriends girlfriends tend to talk every day. You know no big deal she's not heard from but I think she kind of sounds the alarm. Some on Sunday when she returned she's up in Toledo at the time visiting her. Family. So she's like a two hour drive from where he was last seen. So she comes back into town and I think. by this point: Brian's father Randy has already called attempted to call him, but that there no red flags for Randy until she returns to town the girlfriend and alerts. Randy saying I know I haven't been able to get hold of him. They go to his apartment, he's not answering the door, then this this bonds or the family, the girl

and to start looking in the area, okay and by Sunday night they're. Looking in dumpsters, that's not not a great feeling not a crate situation when you are looking in dumpsters so a at some point notify the police department to which the The decision is made, I don't know if it was made amongst the family and law enforcement or if it was just made amongst the family that well, if he doesn't show up for this plane ride this. This flight to Florida on Monday morning, he bought the ticket and that we should. Or this out there too. This is this is a guy that is very much in debt from his from being college guy for so many years. So it's not like you, Willy nilly just by a plane ticket and don't show up rate, do doing.

If he charged it or paid debit or whatever my my guess. This is just a guess, is that he charged it because I don't if it was the private investigator that was later hired by the family or if it was the one of the detectives involved. But when discussing Brian's finances, one of them pointed to he had multiple credit. He had you know multiple lines of credit and credit card debt, okay, which is not that uncommon for a student. You have especially a student of that as far as books and stuff goes, those can be very expensive and in Jc Penney's not paying for all had, I guess, of thy so back to the cell phone thing now so it we know, people are calling him that we can. We can assume that there the calls, so

find out where he is continued for some time, but at some point his girlfriend heartbroken decides to cope with this. It's some kind of its comforting to her to call his cell phone, and she said that She would do it once a day at least once a day, and it was usually be in the evening while he goes missing March thirty first April. First, she's calling this daily calling this phone daily, and it was at some point in September where the phone always went just straight. The voicemail but on this one particular day in September rings three times how in the world does she handle that she said it was the best sound. She ever heard, I think yeah I mean and then, but to so quickly have that hope just crushed right, it's insane yeah cause. Then they contact the cell company so

was it. So we got a pang right well, singular told the year we did get a pang, so the pink went to a tower in Hilliard, Ohio, so Columbus's directly Hilliard would be, as I call it just straight west. It's like a straight shot west of Columbus, but the newspapers said it was fourteen miles northwest of Columbus. Oh, but again, if that's incoming calls, that is that reliable cuz we are now seeing that would like the Adnan Syed case or their sand pink technology special around that time. Only work when is like outgoing call would be reliable, but in good coming Wanna be reliable well enough to further that thought. They give a pretty detailed explanation for that, but it is a little bit of a gas but you're. But let's keep in mind where

hearing, the explanation from is law enforcement. We're not hearing directly from singular who law enforcement spoke with, but what law enforcement has stated is that they were told by singular that what most likely occurred is it there. so much action on the circuit, so many people calling or or using data whatever that. When she attempted to call him it should have just gone straight to voicemail, but instead there's so much activity it then bounced to another tower and when it bounced to thirty tower is when it would have started ringing and then once it takes Id by that tower, it's dropped because it or or went straight to voicemail, because now it's actually connecting it's almost like a hold on signal for the person calling, even though you think that it's, oh, my god, so he turned on his phone or somebody's got his phone. The crazy thing, though to is, what's so wild

this it's not unheard of for someone to kill someone and keep their phone I mean we know long island serial killer, did it to the point where he not only kept the victim's phone but then reached two family members of the victim though an aggressor Ryan that would explain the hundreds of cell phones in your trunk. So I remember before This explanation went out before this explanation. now by police, because there was a rumor that his phone rang. Am I immediately my immediate hut? Is somebody his phone and just happened to have it turned on at that moment for whatever reason and it caught a ring, it caught a call initial thought was. It was Brian turning on turning on his phone in this summer, above Columbus, which is a little bit its away and are also not where he grew up in Pinkerton, parent and impotent number

of so how far is Pickering TIM, it's almost on the opposite side, so you equally this would be pretty much in the middle and Pickering tin would be to the east in hell you're to the West. I would have found it to be better evidence if the paying happened in Pickering yeah did you guys hear any rumor about him wanting to break up with his girlfriend beforehand. Wasn't there something out there that he that he was in coping with the loss of his mother, and he told his girlfriend that he should move on, the voicemail he leaves for his girlfriend the same night that he went missing. He tries to call her at some point, while they're out bar hopping right- and I bet he leaves a voicemail for her- the that camp heard you can track it down on the internet. But it's up to me like, if you know of a beautiful woman,

right it. You are I'm sitting a chronological. It would be all it would be. The voice mail that I, as a beautiful woman, would want to receive from a handsome man. I mean it it's like him. What from to? Yes, basically Brian it in this isn't verbatim, but he calls- and he says something like just still out with the friends I they were asking about you, I'm telling them how wonderful you are. You are the most amazing woman. I love you you soon as that. Does that sound about right, captain yeah! Thank you. We should pause and actually to take a listen to it. The idea that an I I, the I

for all of our old episodes. You can find them on the stitcher app. Yes, the stitcher app is awesome and it's free so want to check out our original coverage of the Brian Shaffer case just use the little drop down and it's under the year two thousand and sixteen near Brian Shaffer cases Episode number sixteen and seventeen. Alright, we'll see everybody back here in the garage tomorrow until then be good, be kind and don't lit.