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the I made a lot of assumptions and turn them into fat. To satisfy the police. did that I use the opportunity to move the blame DR ryan and off of myself thing and much differently than I had previously stated

the club I cannot on was. I can honestly remember if we had robbery on our minds. I made up statement about ryan, giving me the tire and saying that we might get myself about it. I imagined might have occurred that way, because I knew I had beaten the victim with a tire I could not. In my conscious mind that I was a sole perpetrator, an aggressor, so I put in a lot of the blame on ryan. I don't. I don't think that much of much of it was even contest. It was just too hard to admit to myself and others that I kill someone. I can accept the possibility of it. We never done a before. We never did them after. We broke a lot of stuff, it is probably what we had mine when we left the club. I believed that I've lived out committed there, in Iraq alone and with little forethought. I remember feeling: psychotically giddy, that's understandable Did not tell ryan what I was going to do. He

idea that I would act in such an aggressive manner? I don't remember how much it how much of it he was. Therefore he could not stop. He cannot stop me, though. We tried try again if he had it me before and during much of the act of armed with a tire tool? Brian did not say come on. Let's get this over with, while the stalking the victim. He was actually pleading come on. Let's go, he did not want a part in it. again. I turn it around, because I do not want to accept the responsibility of the soul. Perpetrator. I strength. Can I to that I did not remember this until the police told me what he was strangled with when I said I fucked up after they told me what he was strangled with. I just remember doing it: and denied remembering it. I lied right there. That was the first blatant lie It was then that I knew I had done it. I was worried about survival, it was too hard.

go away. My entire life and put my head on quote the chopping list, see the video of the interrogation for that I tried telling the police that I might have strangled the victim Stop me: you got mad. He did not want to hear that. I might have done it again, see the video before I knew I had done it, I consciously assumed it was ryan because it was too hard to accept that I might have done it. I made up, of our rights being on top of the victim. I lied about and strangled entirely one from nick gilpin to the jury on a sob com. love level, always known that I did it. That is a part of me that I have accepted, I enjoy doing it at the time. I was a lot of pain and felt the need to take it out on someone else. There is something wrong with I regret now that I put an innocent man through that he didn't deserve it. I don't lose sleep over it, though it's more I feel it was a sort of violation he had.

Have been my enemy. I wouldn't regret it, except for the prison time that came with it, highlighted the proper about the belt off in writing off of the victim and leaving the scene with the bell. I may, Some after I read dallas mallory statement that he had seen me with something in my hand to honour on identifying the witnesses in the car who couldn't see me with about. I had had used for having the bell in case it came up later. ryan, was actually the one who pushed me off of the victim. He probably wouldn't I've been successful, except that the belt broke at the same time my original story didn't make sense. I don't know why the police didn't question it. Why would I stop being the victim? map out of my rage and then ryan strangling I beat the victim can't hide hold. tell he was on the ground and I took his belt off and strangled him with it.

At first. I said that I thought I had thrown up at the sheen. I did throw up, but it was later I'm not sure where maybe at the osco or do or whatever it was. Maybe in the parking lot, I'm not sure saying that I thought I got sick at the scene with convenient because it remove me from the situation, I said I was sitting on a curb feeling, nauseous in between the time that I stop being the victim, and I push ryan off of can title that was a lie. Ryan never touched the victim, I lied about member in taking items from the victim, though I believe I did that was all assumptions and trying to pass by the police and prosecutors. I lied about putting things in a bag and ryan's car. I didn't remember that I believe that when Ryan took the money out of his wallet, we're out of it We we're back at the bar and said how pointless my actions were. He meant just that he Why I done it, how could he forgot

about money in his wallet I'm not sure that I remember him saying that he had always wanted to kill someone before he turned sixty on the night of the murder It said he may have just been trying to act. All the witness stated kid with highlights in their hair had told the cleaning. and yet how rhine had highlights not me, I can't remember who told the cleaning people together I remember feeling astounded when I was told by the police to actually happen I still don't know where I still don't know where that memory came from, What what? Where am I out of control statements to christian blankenship and Julie done in the parking lot? I dunno that that's something that that that I'd like to know- and they should prob probably be asked about, And finally, after the murder, I remember telling ryan that it didn't matter. Why? Because we are both there. I said this he would keep his mouth shut. That's it.

I just a couple. Follow up questions, so are you saying today that you are the sole murder of kent- hide screw and are you saying that ryan had no idea when you went to the parking lot where you encounter hidell what you were going to do skirts. is saying that there was no plan between the two of you to commit a robbery that night I dunno I dunno do you have a recollection of that? I can't remember what we I don't know what was the position of Mr Hyde hold when he was strangled. I want to ask you again: is it correct that you're, the one who who to have an attorney present today today

and are you currently on any medication of any type Mona you feel that you're making this statement from your memory of the events of what happened that night, I don't have the we're joined here in the garage today by a longtime friend of the show, maggie friehling maggie is the host and producer of the unjust and unsolved podcast longtime. Listeners of our show will know her from helping us out with our shaker heights project, as well as her work on the Maura murray case, as she was featured in oxygen, tv's documentary, the disappearance of Maura murray. Thank you for joining us here in the garage today maggie

please take us through and tell us about your new project, hello, guys. Thank you so much for having me and yeah. I I'm you know this is real exciting because, most of the times that we talked in and done stuff together, it's been about Maura murray, but this is a complete one. Eighty I'm now working on wrongful convictions. You know this project can be conceived it by we, I mean Patrick Hynes, of true crime. says about a year ago, and we just launched in september and each week I cover a case of a person that I strongly believe has been wrongfully in cars. Read it, and I heard you talking on your part cast about the innocent project and there's the rough estimation or the The low estimation is, twenty thousand individuals are in prison that are innocent, yeah I would say that's definitely super low. I mean that's just people that we know of that have petitioned

innocence project I mean there are so many people that I have even heard from who write to me. saying hey, I'm innocent, but the innocence project won't take my case. I only take dna cases, so you know they're not going to take a case that doesn't have some sort of dna evidence, so that leaves out so many cases, hundreds of thousands of cases- and you know if you listen to my podcast most of my cases- have not been taken by the innocents project there, either ballistic cases or accidental. You know baby murderers, involving choice, King are falling, so these are all cases that are very likely, not even in those statistics and a good portion of these wrongfully convicted inmates have been convicted based off of

false confessions, and we now know from dna evidence that, even in dna cases where dna will exonerate the person who has been convicted of the murder, twenty five percent of the time with a false confession, the dna proves that it was in fact false and that we have put the wrong person in prison and those numbers alone. If you carry that out further to cases with no dna, you would think roughly twenty five percent going to apply to those cases as well. So, yes, I think I think the twenty thousand estimate is very conservative, very low, and it's amazing how Fortunately, yes, these organizations have to prioritize these cases, which ones they take on which ones they choose, because there just are so many of them out there. That's that's the saddest part. Is you know there? Are these ones that early

in this. I got a couple letters from a man who had a very sympathetic story, but even for me, it's tough to cover it, because, unlike the have you how to play, investigator have you hiding me these things and he's like his niece accused him of sexually assaulting her in some form. I don't. I didn't really get into too many details. him, but there was there was really no way of of his innocence in that sense and and you many of these out there. So it's been tough, it seventy been tough. Hearing these stories and so many of 'em. I can't even cover just just because I wouldn't have enough evidence to feel comfortable saying this is a wrongful conviction boat, because you don't want to possibly give a criminal apparent form. Now when we started in about you doing a podcast in general, I mean this was probably three years ago at crime con, but you're stating, I believe, on your show them. That Charles's case was the first case that you actually or the first person he actually made contact with before

I started producing your show yeah, so I've reached out to a lot of people. So you know in the intro of my shower. It says twenty folks, which is true. I did reach out to at least Twenty folks and sent snail mail and key he wrote back immediately? I mean Charles It is a incredibly in college at on the ball person, and he just wants people to know about what happened. To her which is just so. No words even explain what has happened to him and why he soon present, and so he was. You know one of the first people, the first person that I really got to know and to this day I would say you know Charles, is a friend I've put his episode out, but I hear I had you know so advocating for him. He knows well getting people to listen to his story, to listen to his side of the story because to him that's really the most important he's been portrayed in the media. For so long as this crazy person who

wrongfully and knowingly put ryan ferguson in prison, which is not the story at all. So for me you know it was really important to talk to Charles and and or what he has to say well in this story, it involves unjust convictions of two individuals- and therefore leads us to the unsolved murder, and can you take us through the tack and murder of columbia daily tribune sports. Editor kent high halt This is the perfect time of year to tell this story because it was halloween night, two thousand one can't height hold. He was the sports editor for the columbia tribune. This is in columbia, Missouri. He's leaving works. Super super lay its around to ten, a m that he says goodbye to his colleague near his car and he is later found some time you know

it's later around two twenty, a m, brutally beaten and strangled in the tribune parking lot again. This is kent: height holt. He was forty, eight years old, he's a family man, brutally beaten and and goals in the parking lot. He was leaving work, but he also stop to feed a camera. So that's it! I was reading in some of these old papers. He stopped to feed a cat, and that's in so Michael boyd and we'll get to him. As you guys know, and a little bit He is a colleague he was also a sportswriter. I think I think tat was his boss he's the last person to see him alive in the parking lot, and they were talking about you know, feeding these cats and then, according to boyd, he leaves, and and almost immediately after that, height old, is beaten, strangled, bludgeoned and left for dead, and two of the workers to other people working at this building they see or believe they saw something

in the parking lot. They call this into and when one to say that can't has been attacked in the parking lot, we need paramedics, we need police two janitor Shanna aren't and jerry trump. They our two janitors and so according to shape a she has multiple affidavits she comes out and sees two young white folks. Who allegedly say someone is hurt and then they leave and she cs can't height hold her her colleague and she calls the police and there's a nine one. One call that you can listen to it's her and jerry trump, calling the police saying ken is lying in the parking lot he's not moving. We need help, but the case doesn't really go anywhere right. We have two potential witnesses. We have some physical evidence at the scene, but this man was beat to death in the parking lot and choked and the case doesn't.

they seem to go anywhere. This takes us to the two year anniversary marker and the columbia. The tribune they start running the story again, one of their own has been murdered on their property and they're trying to get some answers for. Can I all who used to work for the tribune as far as the evidence they have. They have blood evidence. They have fingerprints, they have shoe prints, they have the the the weapon they have. Obviously, these two, I witnesses that saw these other to individuals. We don't know if their attackers or if they were dispatcher buyers or if they were witnesses to the crime, so that they do have quite a bit of evidence, but, like you said it just doesn't go anywhere. Part of that evidence is on shane at desert police composite sketch. So on his anniversary of the

or, like you said two years later, in two thousand and three, the columbia tribune puts out this sketch from Shayna, and then this is where we get into the entire story of charles and ryan. This sketch comes out. In the paper and Charles Erickson who, at the time just remembers that this was halloween night. He was doing a lot of drugs, including cocaine. was he's been to also have ton, lsd, mushrooms know he's a high school kid he's just experimenting this night, he blacks out and so two years later he sees in the paper this sketch that he thinks looks a lot like him. You know I would It looks like a pretty generic, pretty pretty charles the king. Oh my gosh, I was at a party near there. It was halloween.

I have no idea what happened. I was completely blackout. This looks like me hold on going on tat. I have something to do with this year, which is very interesting because taking a look at charles and looking at the sketch, I dont think they look in a like. Personally, I don't, I don't really think so either, but bros, and this is where I always thought it was so important to tell his story, because You know, not only did he allegedly have substance abuse issues, I would say he is just a teenager. Just you know doing his thing, but okay people are calling it substance abuse issues. Not only did he have that, but he did So have you know, o c d executive. You know some some mental use as well that were real causing him to think about this and over think about this and obsess over this and guess what that obsessing. He he really thought this looked like him and he

he went to ryan and said: hey man did we have anything to do with this, and ryan was like what are you even talking about dude? I dropped you off at home after the party around one thirty, you were home like Get away from this is crazy. the oh We now know charles and having a friendship with him, do you know if he has been diagnosed with any mental disorder? Yes,

we are currently in all of his appeals, like these compounding factors, thoughts with it to that that you know he was someone who was troubled did have you know some mental disorders and the police completely took advantage of that at the time that I spoke with his lawyer. That appeal was in india, so he didn't get to into details, but now that I've read them like yeah see how he has oh c D, he hasn t he does take medication for it. He as, inter before it now back then seventeen years old, compounding with drinking alive, doing cocaine doing allies d. It was, it was not a good combination. This case has always been

myradar, because when you see the I believe it was dateline the first time I heard about it, it's so scary, to think being in Brian Shoes- and I have always viewed this case through ryan ferguson's lens that you're out at this party and you're drinking and having a good time and that some points time to go home, I'm going to drop off my buddy and then I'm going to go home and two and a half years later I am being pulled into their questioning me. Now, will one on these events and yes, I mean it happen on halloween

It will be easier to remember what happened, but could you imagine if it was not on how a win, how less of the story he would have known and if you watch those interrogations, it's their scary, to watch because their feeding, Charles all this information and then the other interrogation, you have ryan go and look. I wasn't even there why? So I guess my question would be: how much do you think time played a factor and this meaning the cops had really nothing to go off of for two and a half. years so. Do you think that played into the way they handled this case? I do and they wanted it solved, and you know this case is a is often times you know

in these cases we note that there has been some kind of misconduct, but could be accidental, Well, you know I was covering a case where the prosecution on only withheld evidence because the officers never even gave it to the prosecution. So so that was like a complete accident prosecutor, I know, idea. There was all of this exculpatory evidence because the police withheld it, but in this like such a clear cut the police manufactured this conviction, the police, an prosecutor manufactured this conviction because, with all of the people who later recant jerry trump D, the janitor they got to make a false statement about ryan and charles. You know he recounts and says you know. The prosecutor I mean to say, the police were giving at Charles Erickson, multiple only talk about one in my pod cast. You know I don't have a lot of time to go into every little detail.

There are at least two other manufactured alleged confessions of people. Saying ryan Thus, to me they showed this to charles saying you know, look ryan's, telling people that you guys did this there's another one where allegedly a girl heard ryan confessing at a party, and they show this to charles and say: look she heard ryan confessing. All of this was manufactured. All of this was faked by the police, and it is so agreed just what they did to charles and ryan, but they got charles to confess because of all of these false police reports. They were giving to him. You know time. I think, in the sense that they wanted to solve it, but ryan knew the whole time where he was what he did. There were multiple brady violations. In this case there were multiple people who said we saw them leave, we saw them go home and that was all withheld from the defense and it's weird because it's kind of, if you know the details and you go through.

a bit of it. It feels like there was not so much a confession really at all and on the surface, that's what we're told this is how this came, went wrong this kid. lyrics and he was confused. He goes any talks to police he confesses to the crime. He says me and my buddy ryan did it? Why did we We were looking to get more money for may be drinks or some drugs or both, and it was we not. We were up to no good this totally at the blue for ryan ferguson when he gets picked up because charles as already contacted him and said, look I see seeing this story in the news. I saw this composite sketch. They're saying that two people were at the crime scene is. something we did, the bar we were drinking at was near this area did were we involved in guys, murder and, of course, ryan. Seldom. Do you you're crazy? I don't know what you're doing

and about here and then a couple months go by he's, picked up, ryan's picked up and what we're getting. Here in the interrogation, rooms are two very different things we have saying I did not do this, I don't know what this other I am telling you, but I was not there. I I I'm not just in of the murder I'm innocent of evening having been there, I dont have the didn't, have the ability to even commit this crime because I wasn't physically, they're. On the other hand, in the other room, what we got going on is Charles Erickson who's, saying he's kind of easily es confessing to it more so asking them. Could I have done this year yeah, he says Could I have done this in what has happened in maggie? You hit the nail you hit the nail right on the head, there was he all this in the news he blacked out that night, he had a history of blacking out

and then he said he remembered some things of that night, but I think you're exactly right. I think he started upset. Sing about this crime and his mind started filling in some of the thanks on its own by the time he gets in, that room with police police or saying you walk through the crime while he's getting details wrong, and they know that he's getting details wrong and they start to information, so whatever blanks here figure out or fill in on his own. They start filling them in for him This is something I didn't get to put the pod cuss either, but they took him to the crime scene, so he had no very clear. When he's later explaining how this happened. They took him there and showed him where it happened and said this is where it happened. This is you know where he was found strangled with the belt? So he not only has been fed all this information. He was taken to the crime scene to give an even more accurate description of this

this murder that he allegedly committed- and so it's it's in really it's incredibly disturbing, where they pick a brian Ferguson. One of the things the detective says to him is that I'm a fact gatherer, which will drive we in this case cuz, if you're a fact gatherer than you would have known pretty quickly that Charles knew nothing about the crime scene, the victim or anything that happened that night, because he wasn't there. The other thing in the these interrogations. I think for me there's a detective that talks with ryan ferguson and he says I have a son like you, so you can't talk to your father right now, but let me step in for him there's multiple times where I I think I would have stopped as a detective and said this isn't making sense. We need something that actually connects them to the scene.

We're. We're gonna have to let these girls girl. They knew that they did not do this. None of the evidence. You know they tested off them, what evidence that hair evidence. All of this did not match ryan and charles. They knew they did not do this and yet they. They literally concocted false statements from people I mean it is so is just beyond police misconduct? It is beyond prosecutor misconduct and the prosecutor was kevin and he is now a judge, so Beyond, like the misconduct, there is no ramifications for what they did. Pudding two innocent people in prison

is just so so wild. It will do you know this and you might not that, because different departments work different ways in different cities work different ways. So in some cases the detectives are the ones that push the trial to the prosecutor's there's a conversation that goes back and forth, but there's one entity normally that has the hierarchy to say. We know we're going to take this to trial. So we need you to go back and get more information. I didn't know if you knew how that worked in this department. I don't know but, and again like I was saying you know, I ran into these instances in other cases where the prosecution didn't know all of the dirty things the cops are doing

In this instance, crane is part of it. I mean he dreams like the dirty want woman. He coached jerry trump, who was the star witness. Who is the entire reason that ryan's case was vacate it because he went on the stand and said everything I said was a lie: prosecutor, cabin crane, coach, on what to say so to me it seems like all of it was was dirty and they all knew they knew that the evidence was not matching them and they just took two innocent freaking kids. Nineteen year old, kids and locked him up

hey wait, so what we have as far as evidence that didn't match the eye witnesses the janitors didn't match up. They said that these two boys were not the boys that they saw at the crime scene yeah such a clarifying that Sheena orange- and this was one of the Brady one of the numerous brady violations and she specifically told the police and when they showed her photos. That is not. It is not them. It is not ryan ferguson, it is not Charles Erickson. That is not who I saw at the scene, and so when it comes to trial, the defense no idea about her. So that's a pretty violation and, of course the prosecution doesn't bring on this witness because it doesn't match their story she's saying consistently for years. That is not who I saw so god, that's one of the pieces of evidence is the eyewitness did not see it.

and ryan was supposedly. There was a lot of fingerprints all over the scene and none of the charles or ryan's fingerprints match any of those or a bloody palm print, or the shoe prints as well

none of the match, I mean there is not a single shred of evidence, there's not a single witness who has not come and either recanted or said I was coaxed putting them there. I mean there is general evidence even putting then near there. Why things? That's a big thing in this trial that it is not talked about enough in the system is. I think there was some somewhere between ten and fifteen people that came forward and said, hey out interviewed, and they ask me questions, but I felt like us an interrogation I felt like I was doing something wrong and we they have several of them come forward in say I got to the point where I just told the prosecutor, whatever you want me to say I'll say it so you let me leave. This is not how we should be treating. I witnessed,

and in the other thing to that. I want to step back to for a second when you were talking about. You know how they have their parents there. Not only did they not have their parents there, they weren't right any kind of miranda rides they weren't under arrest. They had no idea, I mean their kids. You know we work in this field, so we know You know if you are taken in you're, not under arrest. You don't have to say anything, you can we if you can walk out, he has no idea. What's going On he's, a scared, kid- but when I say he I mean I'm talking about Charles specifically, because he's the confused and I mean ryan- is very adamant. Like your get the hell up away from me, I didn't have anything to do with as but Charles is like. I don't know, I don't know any wanted to help so bad, and I talk about this in the pod cast when you are now he understands he's innocent, but he didn't at the time because so much evidence was withheld from

and he didn't know that these were all false police reports given to him he had, the idea that dna was exculpatory for him and ryan. He didn't know any of this until around twenty thirteen. So he's sitting there thinking I think we did. This ryan is not trying to help or be fallen. I wanna help. So you know what do I have to do to help him a man dead, and I don't, but that's not even the story he's being told, because in the other room like? You said if, if Ryan knew a not under arrest you could have just walked out and and that's probably what he should have done and then in this other room or

and in this other room or later on, when they're talking to Charles. What do they do? They go hey by the way your heads on the chopping block and, if you don't confess against ryan he's going to confess against you and so for a seventeen year old today, sure allowed to lie to you. I think most people would assume that the cops are not legally allowed to lie to you. So now you have somebody in the other room or nobody in the other room, but they're telling you hey. If the light you so now you have somebody in the other room or nobody room, but tanya confess you're get the the bad into the state. at an I. You know there, that's something I haven't really looked into like we know, that's a thing that they're allowed to lie to you. I didn't know they were allowed to go as far as making fake police report,

I didn't know where is whereas the line on what they can do to you know a confession. Out of somebody. I think that's what so tricky did I do this. I may have done this. I don't know he's flat out telling them I don't know. Maybe I do this. I may have done this. I don't know he's flat out telling them. I don't know, maybe I'm crazy. He says that several times when they, when he can't get, a question right use. While now I don't even know, if I did this, maybe I'm crazy gives them making several several out the thing is, it starts off as a slippery slope. I get it from the police and for looking police and perpetrators. Like look, we we have way one witness. Now we have this kid comes forward, says me and my buddy. I think we did this and of course you got one guy in one room and one guy in the other one guy say We might have done this. The other guy saying go to Hell. I didn't do this. That happens and

I have done this, the other guy saying go to Hell. I didn't do this. That happens in every confession, then becomes committed by two people. They get one person saying they did him one person saying that they did, and so I get that from the police angle, but the problem with off confession then becomes answer these questions. They start filling in the blanks for him and as soon as he agreed that, yes, it was a belt. It was a belt that ryan took off of the them put it around the victims neck and choked him to death when he agreed that, yes, it was a belt, their whole back information He sealed his fate right then, and there, and it goes so far as he keeps asking them. Maybe I didn't do this. no. If I did or not, and what you can you're talking about is they are giving out? because we confirmation to him- say yes, you did your right to come and tell us this, because we got these other people than it did are back.

Up portions of your story, we got who was it a friend of theirs named Dallas, who all of a sudden says now that they saw it. We know this and that's where it's crazy, because you're not having somebody walked in and impounding their fist on the table and saying this is what I did. This is how we did. you're not having somebody walk in and pounding their fist on the table. In saying this is what I did, this is how we did it, and this is why no you're you you have you- have a guy going not certain. If I did this or not, I have a little snapshots. I'm confused about that night and in the blanks to and offering confirmation for him. So now, for whoever more because you're going to fry for this, and if whoever first is going to win in this case. Ryan, going to turn on. You sort telling us every great, and I think the other thing that people are also confused about is charles, didn't. Kind of saying. I don't remember that night. I wonder if I had something to do with it and some

kind of saying. I don't remember that night. I wonder if I had something to do with it and someone called crime supper. Saying: hey! Look! Charles ericsson is talking about this murder and that's when they brought him in a who knows what would have happened if someone didn't call crime, stoppers employed yeah that that's how they wound up in in questioning boy is a true once he moved interact with ryan. To say: hey did we do this that not only were there rumors of people started circulating rumors, saying that that Eric was involved, but that ryan was not involved. I don't know about that, and I know ryan was saying you know we had nothing to do with this orion kind of went about his life like just like charles set up like what are you even talking about? I don't know if there were rumors about right not being involves, but I know Charles was definitely talking

people he was really worried. You know just trying to figure out what what was going on what this ultimately leads to, though nobody bothers to pool the emergency brake and hit stop on this thing. Everybody just keeps letting go further and further and then at some point the prosecutor starts. Let's not only not only were not going to stop. This train were going to add fuel to the fire. We're going to put witnesses on the stand have them say things that they know is not true, because when they don't get a confession, what let's hoping for police is like our eye. We got one half of the parties confessing, let's get rhine ferguson to confess to, and he does He does not waver on his innocence and they have to take ryan to trial, this is going to get a deal. A plea deal for Charles Erickson yeah, Charles takes a twenty five to life. Second degree: murder for his testimony against.

Against ryan and that's one of these things to the death penalty was on the table, so he was also absolutely terrified of the death penalty. In you guys know, we see this almost in every single. If not every single false confession is the death penalty is on the table in their. Thank you, don't say something you're going out for the deaf lt, if you just say something, you know, will take it off the table, but isn't it more likely that if he was convicted of first degree murder that death penalty would be on the table and wouldn't it be really likely that death penalty would be on the table for murder in the sec right? Well, that's why he took the plea because he was up for first degree murder. He took that please death penalty off the table, yeah and charles going to charge ryan ferguson with first degree, murder and I need him to testify. They need Charles ericsson to testify at ryan's trial. I'll. Tell you what

seen portions of that trial. Looked at the prosecutor very strategically had things laid out with different quote: unquote, witness is the defense attorney seemed scatterbrained seemed that he didn't prepare for this case. he calls ryan to testify. Ryan was not prepared to take the stand. He was not trained on how to answer the questions but cord what that was so shocking to me, where you have this confused, Charles Erickson when he's talking to police, maybe I wasn't strangled the guy with know shirt. Oh, it was sure, maybe it was a bungee cord or it wasn't a bungee cord. We know it was his bell. Okay, ryan did it with the belt, but stunning, he walks right in and he throws a death stare.

Is shocking. It is stunning he walks right in any throws a death stare, a death glance over it, ryan ferguson who sit in the defended share. He walks up to the stand, and now he is like he's an expert on the case, all of a sudden he's. He the script, is completely flipped and he's up there with the dramatically acting reenacting, the the murder for the He was extremely believable and he had this look of like anger, again ryan ferguson, while he's in the stand he didn't hide his face from ryan in shame or or or guilt or any, did this is what I did dead on and said. This is what he did. This is what I did. I am here today, because I am one hundred percent guilty of this mark yeah and- and I asked him about that, because it is really scary to why

and- and you know when you're only seeing this when you're watching you know dream killer and other things that have been put out about this case. I mean you're watching these clips and you are thinking wow. Charles is a really messed up person blick. What is he doing, and I asked him that I sent you know you looked like you know. You have the floor, of how, in your eyes like ready to go for ryan like what was that about, and he said I thought ryan was being a bad guy. I thought that he was not taking responsibility for what we did and I was going to do that. I was going to be the one to you know: give kent height whole family, the justice that they deserved and ryan What's it doing that yeah than they brain a man and shackles in the black and white jumpsuit I mean is very the africa, like you, said nick when they brain rhine ferguson on the stand he's very

ill prepared and just little mannerisms that he has he. He kind of smirks and chuckles at things, and I think that made him come off insincere and, like he wasn't taken this trial seriously. I think you know how it's like. How could you it's like so ridiculous, at least in writing. perspective. It's like this is absolutely in saying it's like what is even happen cuz. He knows they weren't there. what's going to ryan's, had at this point because he knows they weren't there he's like this is absolutely bonkers, rang! That's the thing is. That's the reason why this case always sticks with me. So much as you just went out with one of your friends that night couple years later that friends con you goin, hey man, where we vault in a murder, I make it.

Imagine how much your brain would explode. We talking about were involved in a murder, get out of here months, later being arrested or being pulled into question. wait this this knuckleheads tania that maybe he had a dream and we murder somebody we weren't even there and probably thinking the whole time they're going to. Let me go and that's going to be it and nope. Now you're arrested now you're in jail they're in jail for over two years before they went to trial. I don't know if I could stand that if I it's supposed to be innocent until proven guilty but During jail for two years before, you even go to trial its, and this is why you know so much of it focuses on ryan because it it's. You know this poor kid was

yes like what by his friend and the police, really you know he is at the same time we that feel really bad for him, but at the same time we also forget that here's, Charles extend an incredibly vulnerable nineteen year old, that was completely taken advantage of by the police and the prosecutor an rhine hasn't myth that you know one reign was released. He I put it in the pond, cast a statement that he said he said naturally Ryan's going to feel a certain way towards someone who put him in prison for ten years but iranians going to feel a certain way toward toward someone who put him in prison for ten years, but do you know I know from that statement that ryan knows that that Charles had a lot of issues and the police took advantage of that? Well, the story just doesn't it doesn't track. I mean he says we left the bar. In order to go, rob some one to get more money for drinks and drugs, and this can, I

cold murder scene is a bloody mess chuck we return to the bar afterwards and had some more drinks, and we have because- who worked at the bar, who were at the bar, the said no, the bar closed closed. Before we believe can, I hope, was even more chuck Erickson nine one one, I believe it to twenty six, a and now chuck ericsson, saying we we killed this man, and we returned to the bar, which we know could not have happened because a bar was not open and then, on top of that they it's been a bloody mess just going hang out there, that's the thing, Do they also? Not only did none of the evidence at the scene match charles and ryan, but they searched there. I forget whose I think it was ryan's car because ryan was driving, but

whichever car they were driving and they searched they searched Charles's. You know clothing from that night. There's nothing nothing! There is no blood. There is no evidence and that's the whole point. They would have been a bloody mess. There would have been blood in that car. You know there would have been something, but again it's it's hard, not to fault the detectives or the prosecutors, but I do feel that maybe with somebody coming forward saying I don't know. If I did this, I possibly could of, I think, maybe push further than you normally would any dig deeper than you normally would, but I think it ended the day. You still come to the conclusion that neither one of these boys were at the scene of the crime. So they, therefore,

as committed the yeah and again there was multiple witnesses. You know, like you said the bar saying it was close, like people were alive for them and they just pushed ahead, and I think to going back to what you said. You know what I feel like prosecutor Kevin crean. I mean we have jerry trump specifically saying he was coached by him. I feel a he was really pushing for this conviction and again he's a judge now. So this was like a big. This was a big wind for him. in in a stepping stone in his career, so you know if the whole thing was just dirty well in attorney, Kevin says that she told did. Ryan ferguson is not the man that parking lot is not the man that I saw a parking lot, so he kind. A conveniently leaves that out. He doesn't get her to change her story, but he never says point two: do you see the man that you saw that

in the parking lot in this room at court here today, ever asked a question then, of course rhine. Ferguson's attorneys too scared to ask that same question. Does he as you know what the witness is going to say: that's, what's bizarre that shows you how the lack of preparedness on the defence on there and there were hole. to be poked in this story, and this narrative and the evidence itself. But even after poking any those holes, because he didn't really didn't seem like he prepared much. Were this had he interviewed, china are in advance, he could have realize that question in a deposition found out in advance what he was going to say and realize wow, that's some powerful information that this journey. Should know about my client. but he didn't know to do that because he didn't he didn't put in the work or again this is so it's so bizarre, and one of the reasons is

the system is set up to have checks and balances, and in this case with such a perfect storm, we if this kid that doesn't remember thinks they did something bad now he's confessing against you, your attorney, your defense, attorney that you hire that everybody tells you this guy's. The best shows up so unprepared. I mean at one point he's pointing to a reference map and talking about a restaurant and the restaurants, not even on the map because cause it was an old map. This guy was so ill prepared and then again, the perfect storm cops that went too far prosecution. That probably said hey look. If we can get the confession does a manner if it's

false or not. If we can get that confession, I can get a convict that was in his opening statement in crain's opening statement. He points he says you know there is no dna linking them to this all the dnase, pointing away from them, but he's confessing. So, that's all you need to worry about. We're not even not dna, I believe crane said there is the the physical evidence. Theirs. I mean that the amount of douche bag harry he talks with a mean, I would even call swagger. He is so, do she at times this man as a judge. Now he presiding, over cases now. I guess. On one hand, people could go on is now taxpayers pay his salary and he he got the conviction and by bennett the rules by wa interrogating interrogating, not eye witnesses,

now because of his conviction. The state owes ten mil in dollars to write ferguson alone that not to mention wench wells gets out who's done more time than that I mean. What is this conviction was purely for his own political career gain it. There is no way to say that this helped society and it clearly did not help because again, taxpayer money is now going to paying a wrongful conviction. Settlement and the real killers are still out there can't hide holds family, does not have any kind of justice-

who knows what these people have done in the meantime, in fact, I do know what you were. These people have done in the meantime, and there was another murder is a couple of things about this case is again, the focus normally goes on rainforests and he's deathly of victim in this case as much so I believe Charles is a victim in this case, but you, like you just said cat is the victim that is most forgotten in this case. His family is forgotten in this case, and just like the last person that saw him Michael boyd, which was a sport early on one. He puts himself at the crime scene at one point says he left at two later says he left it to twenty and one interview. He says he drove his car, another interview. He says he drove his wife's car. There was

and one interview he says he drove his car another. In a view he says he drove his wife's car. There was pieces of paper that had a schedule on it. That would have been Michael boyd schedule that was found underneath Kent's car. There is rumoured that they had a argument. The car that people believe Michael was driving at the time he got rid of. So he also said when he came back to work that there was this. The medics were still there. That was a lie. There's also, he said a couple different things about the crime scene that he should ease. He should have known where he changed the story about

So there was enough reason to look into the individual and I'm sure they did a little bit. But where do you stand on on on Michael boy? Yeah, you do you just named everything that makes him. You know a better person of interests, then charles and ryan I don't really know in that too. your span before charles and ryan came on the radar. How much they looked into boyd? Clearly, something turns them away from him. Well, that what I question is, is it the the janitor is are correct. In there I witnessed the bull sought, individuals that were and that's. Why am I yeah yeah boy is not news, not wait here, young white man. and he was solo and the janitor said they saw two young white men again,

Well, who knows if they were just pedestrians walking by because allegedly they said, hey someone's hurt so who knows they were the actual killers or if they just saw something it could have been buoyed, but people who know this case real irrigation and and talking a lot with people who know this case really well. There are Two people that were uncovered by zellner Private investigators. Tat are very good prospects in two thousand five commit another murder similar. similar like a very random murder who who they were linked to this murder and alleged have said that they commit other murders like this, and there look very much like the sketch one of the men. So personally, I think there are much better suspects and boyd. I think boyd is just an odd dark and just doesn't remember things

Yeah, I I don't think it was boyd, but he he should have been looked into much more than he was thanks for joining us here in the garage make sure you go to the website. True crime garage dot, com, site, upon our mailing list. We are going to have two more garage sales for the rest of the year. If you're not on the mailing list. You won't be able to get the discount code so make sure you do that at true crammed garage doc,

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