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coming up on the beer this week and I discovered that they were least dead. Guy ale, they created a back in the nineties specific to celebrate the mayan day of the dead witches november first, better known to us as all souls day so there's your little fun fact and the good news what rogue, ales and spirits they recommend drinking your dead, guile ale, with pork, barbecue and hoddan spicy food. We recommend that you try if you drink it in the garage with your friends, some of our friends that put the beer in the fridge. This week we have mandy in charlotte north carolina. We have holly and walnut, california and monica in court. go california fournier now monica says she enjoys listening to and looking at the captain, so captain. If you were wondering if you still got it, I guess still got

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right grab a chair grab a beer endless talk. Some true crime This is true crime garage, and this is the case. Dayton, leroy, rogers august thirty. First, nineteen, eighty seven, a hunter is walking near the molecular force. He discussed the decomposing body of a woman, and he five law enforcement

by sundown of the next day for more bodies were discovered by deputies. timber. Fifth, the body count it seldom each victim was killed by multiple stab wounds. There now bodies showing obvious signs of severe torture mutilation who was reached sensible for the body clustered dump site What kind of monster did this to these women? The true crime garage the case of dayton, leroy rogers, the

I am sure they anorexia and I'm jessica, saint clair, and where the host of the deep died tat. No just you and I spend every week talking about mother products. We love grieve, it's basically of girls, night weary don't even have to wear pants and honestly we're having a lot of fun doing it hope you join us on the deep die, listened to the deep diamond stature, apple plot cats or wherever you're listening to this now supports. This programme comes from arkansas escape to natural state outdoor adventures to indoor attractions in just a few miles or a few minutes near it all, but faraway planted trip at arkansas dot com.

Sometimes we lose that don't know it's still fun and fun, sometimes one and sometimes one and one makes me love it. That's why nationwide is on yours that nationwide mutual insurance company and affiliates columbus, ohio dayton rogers was born September, thirtieth, nineteen, fifty three and idaho. He was the younger of three grew up in a very religious family. Had some strict parents had was a potato form. And his family moved around quite a bit now, parents would go on and they would adopt for more kids so now we're up to like seven kids

and dayton is no longer the baby falada kid seven cadets, that's a lot of kids now Dayton did show some weird thing. Is going on in his childhood. He had. There was some strange fascination that he had with his sisters. Shoes The family kind of didn't write speak about too much like a foot centres. It could be it could have been a foot fetish, but we're going to see this play out much later in his life. Alright, I'm so excited in seventh grade date. Is arrested for shooting a be begun at passing cars. This is the first time that, we see some law breaking in some That's not the uncommon though it on com, and I mean kids do destructive things and they get bored in they. You know an egg, houses and and throw toilet paper, and things like that, but shooting something at a passing cars. A little that's a very dangerous way to get your kicks.

depends on how like powerful, though the be begun is I mean don't, do it, I'm not suggestion I may should be begun a mac cars get it. I mean understand that there could be worse things all yet but I mean all kinds of things can go wrong when you, when you're doing something like anyway, shoot your out yeah or somebody else's Things get a little bit more dangerous, a little more weird. When dayton is eighteen years old, he is with his fifteen year old girlfriend. And he drives them to the woods to what it air way, hollings on to eighteen, fifteen, that's you know like if you're, let's eight thirty, the twenty seven, not that big of a deal right. Eighteen, fifteen, that's kind of of right, but this was This was the seventies. This was nineteen, seventy two and I think it was a little more common back then that that guy, it would be like a freshman in college would date girls that we're in high school. You know

From my understanding I wasn't I wasn't around back, then I wasn't way he's with his fifteen year old girl friend. He drives them out to the wall, This was in eugene. Organ and he stopped. her in the admin he peeped became angry all of a sudden with her, so let us establish with a knife. There was a hunting knife. He says: can't trust you. He becomes enraged for like no reason he stabs her and he leaves he goes to leave and he returns very quickly and he's a whole different guy when he returns here. Poligized is over and over again for what he's done. He even ask her to marry him by and then he drives her to the hospital. he didn't stop out like a marriage place first year. one of those hey, let's get married! Well, I mean before I save your life before they stitch you up you're going to have to say yes,

Well think out, he drove her to the hospital. I don't know how bad that statue was but drives her to the hospital and, of course, you know a phone call is made law enforcement is it is notified, is the most romantic proposal there ever heard, and he getting for years. Probation for this attack. That was august of nineteen. Seventy two he's on for you, if the probation, when in august nineteen, seventy three he attacks to fit in your old girls with a pop bottle, his probation my works and he is acquitted. by reason of mental disease and he sent to a state hospital and released. What did they claim? He had in december of that same year. He it it was just simply listed as reason of mental disease or, and so maybe at that time they thought it was like schizophrenia or, like you know, multi

personality. Well, one thing we're going to see you one thing that we will see when we cover other cases and other profiles of of some of these guys. You will see a lot of times in the seventies there. This movement that went on that that we were really big into trying to rehabilitate people and that, when p, acted out when people did strange things then they were more likely to put you in a mental hospital where and try to treat you, and sometimes you would only be treated for several months, would be released where, if you would have had to serve time for that act, you would have served a lengthy year jail sentence or a prison sentence and we see this time and time again in the seventies, there's a lot of guys that european serial killer, Cyril rapist. They were in these state hospitals and you know they were therefore, couple months, some of the worst ones couple years

They were all led out again to go on to stranger acts. He was released descent, twelve nineteen, seventy four january of nineteen. Seventy six dayton indicted for first degree, rape and he's actually and innocent in that trial. I don't they had enough evidence. I dont know that he was guilty Let's give him the benefit of the doubt and say he was innocent if that's how they found him, but while he was waiting the trial he raped. A high school student failure This gives us right, so you gonna say he was found. He was found in a and yes, he was so we're going to claim he was innocent, but why he was awaiting trial. He raped somebody else, I'm just going with what the public stated back that. Well, I'm going to go with the fact that, if you're waiting for your your conviction on a rape,

at any rate somebody else. Chances are you rate, though, that person? Ok, that's the captain's court, ladies and gentlemen, so he he is accused of raping this high school student and he he also through and another high school student with a knife. Now this is that the threatening part here is, I believe he was trying to abduct this high school student and you know threatening her with a knife was trying to trying to abduct ernie was unsuccessful. Thank god he has a pleading innocent to both of these charges and he is found innocent by reason of mental defect. Now the price acute or set it actually be found guilty on mental defect. It's actually that you are found innocent, because what what the court state is that you are

sent by reason of mental defect, because you do not understand the crime that you are accused of committing now and was dayton, was not a dumb man. He was not a dumb die. He did some violent horrible things He could very well be mentally defective or whatever, but for whatever reason this is what they found him now. He is found guilty on a lesser charge of coercion and that's why I believe that he was trying to abduct the high school student and he has getting a five year sentence for this charge for the crook coercion charge. Now he gets rolled after seventeen months, but he's only out for a short period of time. Any they pull him back jail for another ten months for a parole violation. Now the prosecutor that was attempting to press q him on those charges, he's

aids. He says to the newspapers: look this guy! This Leave leroy rogers he's a man, case waiting to happen, where an or another rape case, at least to death and He's, like I said, he's paroled after seventeen months pulled back in four ten more months and then he is. Out on the streets and now he's into his adult hears so he's in his mid twenties. At this time, we're gonna ass for two nineteen, eighty seven cat, and so what has taken place in the past few years dayton Lee Roy rogers has became a small business owner. He runs a pretty successful small engine repair shop. You know repairing, lorries over he was charged with all the stuff and he got off because basically mental illness, and then he did some time and now

out, but he spent some time serving out his probation Annie in carrying through those those sends. But yet he is out. he's been, we need more than once by this time and during nineteen. Eighty seven at this point currently married and he has a son, a young, sun and running his small engine repair shop, pretty successful business man. notes to his wife, though he is busy working at his store working at his shop and, She believes that he's working late nights going in early mornings and things like that. But what he's act? really doing is he's. Frequenting prostitutes now this area. You know four archer crime fans long time, true crime fans out there. We know that that this area tends to this is portland or

in okay- and this is the south side of portland Oregon, keep portland weird and that what they said is not what they say yeah, I think that's what they say: this area has its hot beds, has its little parts and its little strips in its alleys that are full of drug annex and prostitutes, when I think every major city has that for whatever reason, You know I mention for our long time, true crime fans, because the the crimes that were to talk about here are similar to of Gary ridgeway he's the green river killer and also yeats, who was active in there. same area as well in all three of them preyed on prostitutes. So at this point, daintily leeway rogers is frequenting these prostitutes, Spending is evenings drinking quite a bit and he's picking up hookers, and he

has this weird foot fetish. Now there is a there's a strip there'd known as the eighty two ok, and this seems to be where the weirder johns go to pick up their girls and pick up their date. They have, eyes it her into all kinds of we're different stuff. Now a lot of stuff does not get reported to police. Why? Because a lot of the prostitutes in the hookers have other legal problems going on as well. You know they're out there. Out doing any legal business and A lot of them are involved and drugs some of them even have warrants out. So what happens is when they have a problem with the john, if there's a john, that's violent or weird, they just kind of, amongst themselves and say: hey look out for this guy. Look out for this guy! Well, daintily, why rogers? He is going under the name of steve, the gambler,

and so some of the girls have already started talking, you know, look out Steve the gambler he drives like a blue pickup truck and keep I offer him he's he's a nice guy. He pays well but somebody told me he got violent with her. You know so this this kind of not just he's a little weird with the feet and the your belly of portland Oregon at this time, the south side, there d undertow, there's already? Yes, there's hall, already some talk about it, you missed! dayton, we were rogers, he any in being known as the gambler steve, the game correct. So what happens is in august of nineteen. Eighty seven right yours is seen crouching over the body of a nude woman. Now this is taking place at a dennys restaurant parking lot. This is before sun up still dark out or a big fan of the denny's

The a couple of the people at the restaurant or in the parking lot had heard the woman screaming and two of the guys go over to see what the hell's going on now dayton lee as he flees the area he gets in his truck his blue pickup truck and he speeds off. Well once you know the patrons go after him, they hop in their vehicles and they follow him I good for them now. This is a chase. This is a car chase now and we're talking we're going speeds of ninety two hundred miles an hour dayton, leroy rogers. He gets away from these guys, but in the process there able to have a decent description of him. There able to provide law enforcement with the description of his vehicle. It was a blue truck. It was like a niece honour, Mazda, you remember those old, the very small pickup trucks from the from the mid eighties and are still small pickup

We will only that, but it's crazy. You will still to this day. I dont know what niece honour Mazda did those trucks, but you will still see one driving around like thirty. years later today, anyway, low trucks always keep their value The important thing here is they manage to get his license plate number. That's that's a good thing So what happens is even though he gets away from them by the time law enforcement first responders show up in figure out, what's going on girl. Her name is Jenny smith. She has passed away. She dies, Ok now she had suffered several. abu wounds to the chest and adamant. And she had also her her throat was slip and- but he had stabbed her in the vagina. use the information they take, the license plate number and the described of the vehicle, and they think out who the owner is and it's dayton, leroy rogers while they go

to his small business to these small engine. Repair shop data rogers owns. and while there there they discovered, It's the man they're looking for they make a quick arrest and they find some strange things in his he's got like one of those wood burning stoves and they fight some strange things in their there's, like women's hair, some some different kinds of women's hair and some women's clothing in a wood burning, stow correct, It's not all items it. There there's more different kinds of hair and more different kinds of clothing there. They dont believe that this all belongs to this jenny, psmith right who has now passed away and then possibly none of it belongs to her correct the minutes. We didn't know for sure that if it took place at the actual shop they know it.

If the place that the denny's parking lot so she might never have been at the shop. What they think probably happened was that he had picked her up and that they that all of this probably occurred in his truck that he stands you're in the truck and she was trying to get out and get away and She died in the process. now. They dont know if, when he was crouch over, they don't know if he was like trying to collect her body to do to dispose of it where or if he was trying to finish her off their not and do not really clear. But they do fine, suitable amounts of blood and blood stains in his truck so dayton leeway. Rogers is apprehended this was august Nineteen eighty seven september fur some of the same year were just talking about weeks later right Some guy named ever banner he's DR he's watching a name for your bang it. Yes, that is a name for it he's walk

in or near the mullah forest, that's another name for your malaysia in this area. He he's walking he's a hunter he's kind of scouting. The area are hunting in the area and more of a gather, and he discovers a nude it there's a woman's body. There composing body and its nude and there's some some live obvious signs of torture and mutilation to this body. He reports his findings to the police and the police in the sheriffs department. They come out. Their law enforcement come out there and they start searching the area. Now we got a point out, or been to the malalai forest, but from what I've heard him. What I read this is this is a dark, deep, wet, first, I mean this is this is not an area that so dense rhymes and in its not There is not a lot of traffic through their there's knock. You know people walking through their lot. You could

rid of a body you could put something in there and it might not be discovered for quite some time. We're not suggestion to do them. Well, a start, canvassing the area and- during the course of their search, that, by the end of the stay by sundown of the next day they found for more bodies. So this is similar to you know. We talked about the long island, serial killer and season. One way that what they found one body they start looking in the area and in boom there's another body boom, there's another by this is a little bit different though, and I should go on to say that by september fifth, you know another three Four days later, they had discovered two more bodies so now in total, seven toad and these warrant these bodies weren't like well head, like you know it wasn't,

like the long island serial killer, where somebody kind of neatly packaged him up and and tried to hide them rain, and if out in the open? This is kind of outlay open, yes, and. because it so because nobody goes there. You know that I guess is the thought that you could use if it works. Once you just do it again. I mean it's kind of was a sloppy crime scene. You know they're just kind of left there or maybe the idea was this. I get out of my car. I dropped the body and I just take off as long as they see me dropped the body them and the clear. Maybe that was the thought process behind them. Their are able, I identify six of the seven girls that are found six of the seven women. It's a good thing one of them goes on identified. Most of them are believed to be prostitutes. Sir drug addicts are both to think long and yet

and they had gone disappear. You know they had disappeared and when we say disappeared, usually this situation there not reported missing to anybody there was really nobody. Looking for these women are these girls until they were found, and then they had to figure out who they are well. They I remember they got this crazy guy dayton Lee Roy rogers that they just picked up a couple of weeks ago. Who'd killed a prostitute right and was caught red handed, and we found this weird stuff in his burning stove right that doesn't match the victim than they have well. The strange thing here is after he is picked up with our strange enough for seven bodies in the woods at yeah. After he's picked up for the death of Jenny smith, a couple of working girls come word and start telling police some very strange stories about steve the gambler. Yes, there's this guy steve the gambler, he drives a blue pickup truck and he looks

exactly like that. Guy, you got locked up, name, daintily, Roy rogers and there's one girl in particular. who tells of a terrifying evening. He picks her up. and there you know he should he offers her forty dollars for whatever they're going to do and he office her office. Her call as well. I guess this was a pretty typical m o for him that he would I've a round with, but the like a big you, no sir, he would drive around vodka in orange juice in drink these screw drivers and he would all screwdrivers what that was a popular drink back in the day. I guess Lee eighties early nineties yet and it, but he the thing gave him away was he would made his own orange juice and no heap. He would those little small bottles of vodka, like the little shooters like that, you see in the hotel right, you know, or the on airport yeah what they call it. The many bar gather, many bar, don't ever don't have

drink everything in the menu bar because by not because the bill, you like a week later is crazy. It's crazy an online to sleep in my car, so they ve into one of the things they found in the milan forest along with these women they found de containers of orange shoes and empty shooter bottles of vodka, all over the place so they they have some things linking them to the stately rogers anomaly that there's okay, so the girl, the came forward. You no other prostitutes came orders well, but weren't about her story. In particular, she says it. You know he picked me up for me, forty dollars in some alcohol for the date and we I went along with it, I don't know, one color day, maybe cause services or entertain. I think that's what the johns in the working girls were for it s so date, yet

hey: do you want to date or hey you looking for a date as I dunno this, I saw the movie. Why am I'm looking for a date if you want to date the captain good true crime garage dot com? She she says he wants to drive her to the area of the militia force, which is not terribly far from where they are. I mean they're on the south side of portland anyway, so this just a few miles away, but it's a very secluded area and that's not terribly out of the realm, you know that's not out of bounds, because you were looking for a secluded area to have your date in this blue pickup truck again when social it's ok, I'll go along with that. Well, she it's out there on it and is good for her too, because then she's not going to be pulled, I mean if they get caught by the cops, then they're both in trouble right. It's not like one not their boat, doing something he laid the only one who well we're just gonna. Send you on your way girl. Well, they get to the look

asian that he wanted to go to and their fumbling around in the in the vehicle, and at some point he explained to her that he he's in the bondage and he's got a foot fetish. And the only way that he's going to be able to get what he's paying for is he's going, need to tie her up and he wants who play with her feet right right, Well, she thinks ok, I can handle that. So he ties are up and it was what she said. It was like a switch went off like when he picked her up to begin with. He was kind of soft spoke in and in lots of manners and in very polite tour and then, after he got her tied up, he became very me. You know it is passing hurries yelling at her. He screaming and yelling he's telling

her go and scream and yell as much as you want wear out here in the forest ain't. Nobody gonna hear area and he's I'm not go and everything that he is doing to her, but he is getting very violent with her and her starts it? One thing that he did and eight they have proof of this, because a solid on some of the other victims that they found is it. He started biting her feet to the point where it would draw blood and take another drink. Real, quick cheers: everybody out there take a drink all right, so he bites her foot until charles blood. multiple times. That's I mean you gotta bite somebody pretty hard to do that. Well and at this point, she's got to be thinking. Okay, I'm going to be lucky to get out of here with my life and she's, let's the mind or all of her toes she's she's tied up. She can't did she can't fight backfire.

while she can't escape well, he he tells her that you have to cases. Either he's got some knives with him and he said I'm going to give you two options here: ok I'm going to strangle you or I'm going to cut off your breast and she she gets brave here, man and she started saying you know what fine strangle me. if you're gonna kill me kill me, but you're, not gonna. Carve me up and this really unhinge. Is him he doesn't get me. Or angry, he doesn't get more violent he kind of retreat submit he's now, she's taken the control away from him a little bit idle if there was a certain assert ritual that he needed to do a certain. You know order, that he needed to follow to achieve whatever

he was hoping to achieve, but for whatever reason her voice, Lee standing up to him threw him off of his game and he ends up letting her go now we only have an idea of what he did these other women by the state that they are found in and by victims, that survived, surviving victims, coming forward in telling these stories to him idea of what this guy was capable of. So is he I mean he's a sadist, He somebody that that loves watching some pain. He loves. Watch a person in fear, and he loves the sight of blood and he's here, Getting high he's getting off on this, and you know we we liked it like Gary ridgeway, unlike yea, You know guys that we have talked about earlier in this show

lot of times from what I've. What I've read is it they they achieve some kind of unbelievable high. The the I've always fantasized about doing stuff like this and why, they. Finally, do it did it's the most it some them the greatest high that they ve ever experienced and they do it over and over again, because their chasing that dragon every time there. trying to relive that same experience and for whatever reason she threw off, his game. And she survived now fortunately the jenny smith, found in the dennys parking lot, the seven girls that were found in the mullah forest didn't didn't survive and they like was, like I had said they were shown, selina obvious signs of severe torture and mutilation. Who knows how much time that he spent with these? With these women now some of them had had their feet, cut off

They think that his foot fetish was so severe. Then then that he would do things to the feet wide. after he had a woman tied up the typical things that we can do you know we talked about him biting the feet until there was blood but he would also stab the heels with some of the girls that he had cut off the feet. They suspect that these, were removed all the way, or partially while they were still alive. I start from the pain well, and it was even suspected that he would get off so much on watching the person in pain and in beings terrified that he would start to remove the feet. He would start saw them off and when the victim would would black out or pass out from from from the pain and from the terror he would wait until they would recover till they would wake up.

and and then continue onward with with removing the feet to for whatever, whenever pleasure, he was trying to gather out of this person's misery thank god he is already behind bars. He was apprehended and their able to tie these to him and and talked to date only why rogers about these, and in here starts to give a little bit of information. But there is plenty of evidence and these other girls coming forward- that are telling all the terrifying stories that day survived about this steve, the gambler. Right, but at this time they know that stupid the gamblers yet India's and he He ends up being tried for the death of jenny, psmith, that's a separate trot and that's a pretty cut that things pretty cut and dried right. I mean there's witnesses Dave, there well to put him at the scene. There are able to put him with the body and he's convicted

of that and he's he sentenced to death. Well, then, they have problem of trying him for the girls that are found in the forest. Why, though, well. It has to be a supper trial and there is considered a separate case and, then so I can't tie the evidence of the well he's too yeah, but said nothing. But the thing here is captain what you want to do when, when somebody is this dangerous- and you guys You got a slam on case where you're, like our he's, he's convicted we're getting him convicted of this no matter what yeah, so you try him for that. You get it convicted. You get the death row sentence. And then you proceed with the other ones, that have less evidence unless you know fax, memories more likely to do a plea that point. Well, that's all So yeah you could do a little push and shove. You know if you can get the

Sometimes they were ass, the victims, families, if they would agree that such a monster this could serve life instead of death if, if he just please guilty to these by all counts career so they end up trying, but they'll give him like seven life sentence. Basically yeah in I you'd never ends up. He never ends up, he cooperates, but he doesn't and applying guilty to any of these charges and he's tried any sends an he sends to death and mode for all of the cases now he's come least still on death row. I was thirty years later, his guys still alive. Yes. he's still alive and that he was in the news, a couple years ago, because they had finally identified that one victim that they did they configure it when I was seven thick them yet because of advance dna technology, there are able to figure out who the seventh victim was

Now I dont know if they had have a new trial for that once a new who the victim was, but it was in the news again that was cheered and provide some good for the family to know, at least what happened. I mean, obviously that's the worst case scenario. At least she know and you're, not sitting, I'm guessing the rest of your life yeah. I don't know I mean with with rogers, is just strange that there's that north west coast, that pacific west coast knob north there, this kind of like hotbed for serial killers. For some reason especially the ones that the pick up, prostitutes and pray on prostitutes You know in seattle, seattle had a bad prostitute problem in and you know get ridgeway was was killing. He killed like forty eight forty, nine of them properly hi nitrate and the water system in london like yeats, who killed a handful orb or maybe ten He was in that washington, organ airy and actually with with

Daintily were rogers now keep in mind when he was apprehended the green river killer. Ass was still unsolved and they act. He suspected that he claw ran right, the green river killer so that I mean that was huge news. He I mean he will. He was big news back than anyway, but they suspected he could have been the green river killer because his dump sight was similar to that of the green river killer, Well, in the middle of nowhere: well they do what what is called a cluster dump, whereas its multiple bodies in one area, and I guess the thought is that if you spread, if he's the bodies out a bunch that maybe are easier to stumble upon. So You put him in an air in a remote area that may be right Then, if you put them all together than you stumble upon one, you ve grown, stumble upon all of em. I guess it's all or nothing at that point right, but I mean if it's that secluded than me you're thinking enemies, gonna find us now the thing

in the end also me there's a lot of animals, and these would say you'd think that at some point that there would be, I take over by the animals well in Bundy Bundy used the animals to to help him and keep in mind. He was in that he was involved in that same area as well. now the meal in this strange and gone. Others strange well and I think a part of it. You know not for Bundy. He wasn't into the prostitutes, but I think part of it for these other guys is that it was a prostitute hotbed. I mean bunny wasn't into for now he was into like college girls. you think maybe had something to do with light gum like the prostitution be unpopular. Was that do you think that I had suddenly with like travelling, like maybe I'll truckers, is normally there's hot.

Yes, I'm like ok, well, there's a couple things going on on the west coast, first of all its drugs. You know people get a dick the drugs and they sell themselves for it at the, the day you might be selling yourself or forty bucks. You really selling yourself for the drug that you're gonna buy my as soon as you get your money. drugs is the number one problem and again with but these girls, like we saw with the long island serial killer case some these girls, they're boyfriends, had drug problems too, and there their feed into their families their hooking, would would pay for both of their habits and theirs. Also, a There's a highway there's several highways that run up and down that west coast along with highways there and well. What what happen? Is some of these girls will work in air and then move up and down the coast, so A girl goes away. A lot of the other girls just assume all she moved on to a busy or city right.

Where do the business sending a different location correct Actually, the weird thing here is with Gary ridgeway police started working with prostitutes when they were the green revolution, These eventually saw working with the prostitutes and said hey. This is the only way we're going to figure out who this dude is right right now, in this case, it was completely. different? They didn't even realize they had a serial killer, they didn't realize the girls were going missing becoming technically don't think that I assume that the data happened at Dennys. I'm not, then connect These seven bodies tinted this right my name right and when they have him locked up for that one crime date. They probably believed it was an isolated incident and we got one, This is so here this guy's going to jail for this. He has somewhat of a young spotty past anyways

but then ever base our common out, but the sea the gambler, and they probably did that, gives it probably heard the news about it and then felt safe that he is lost well not only safe, but I think at some point when you know that murder is involved, then you going. Ok, you know what my outstanding warrant for some petty crime that I committed the lot law enforcement doesn't really care about that they're. Going to give me a the probably give me a if I provide them with some information it well, and I went into answers- are that you could actually not numbers things. One you get picked up for doing something illegal. You go hey, I some information so that one way to you're gone in there not tom who you are and is given a for me. Common anonymous, but either way is I mean, I think, when go missing an and least these girls were looking out for each other and says: hey took this happen once you know, there's this up, stop going on. I thought he was weird to my share my stories about that, but then lead to

solving up with another seven? That's a and total, but I'm betting money, there's more. There could be Who knows? Maybe he started earlier than their aware of maybe had a different dump site when you're Talking about killing prostitutes unfortunately, they tend to be people don't go mister reported missing, as we had said now, rogers when he is tried for that first trial, with with the death of Jenny Psmith, he pleads innocent he's I mean you couldn't be caught more red handed right right, He pleaded innocent and actually did he ever. Reasoning del account here, this self defense self defense yes He key stated. He killed her at a self defense. He said then he picked her up and was when to pay for the date. I have a problem with we as common deep ago him she pulls a knife

on him and tries to rob he. He gets the knife from her and proceeds to stab her it. He's the eleven times. It's her knife to defend himself right, that's what he said. That's what he said and, of course, that didn't stand up in court. One bed, you know and he's guilty in and furthermore I mean it a man and a woman. I dont know that, yes, you have to stand alone. eleven times to defend yourself now No, you don't. You can talk I'll, make a note that to all the male listeners you do not have to stab somebody eleven times to defend yourself. she probably didn't have the knife at all anyways. So no she's, probably his his knifing had a life. You know where he he showed up ready to kill these women. If things Things were going his way if he could trick them. If he could them into the bondage stuff like

to get him out of town first. This guy was get. If, if I can get you to go, to go on the drive and think about that. Not only he had the knife or knives with him- he's got the ropes with them too and that bondage stuff. Now here's the thing captain now some people might think that I'm crazy, ok, but I wanted to go. I want to talk about some of the real quick we talked about Gary ridgeway or he killed four. Eight forty nine prostitutes yeats. He killed like ten or twelve of how gay all day leeway rogers. You know you asked Did you bring the knife with and will of course he did? He had already killed seven people by the time he picked up, jenny, smith, guilty of killing eight and, like you said it, there could be more Joe was unlike release. You yeah yeah, Joel rifkin was in new york. It Helen prostitutes. We Have the long island serial killer at this. on and on and on these,

strangler we can go on and on and on different cities in different parts of the country. Right you know this This is something that, when these sick guys get these to get these ideas did there that they are compelled to do who do they pray on? They pray on prostitutes. Why? Because they can pick up, there's it's it's the easiest person to get in your vehicle. well you gotta do is pull up to the right spot. Roll down your window in flash some money in that person is yours there in your car. You can't do that with most other professions. You can't do that with most other people, and so the It's these poor women I mean. Sometimes you can get clowns to get in your car. Pretty easy. I mean yeah, they have yeah, they are committing a crime broke aid. But let's keep him some of them are doing it because of drug habits in rather is it, but it's their business, their businesses to get into your car. They dont get into your car. They don't get money.

So here is my idea: ok, I'm not there. I did this doesn't end serial killers that doesn't stop serial killers, mine but but walk with me for a minute on this. Now not walking or do you in your car I would but I think that we should make a move for de criminalizing prostitution. I now think about this for a second, I think I'll try to be funny here for a second I think, was George Carlin. That said that you didn't under And why prostitution was a crime I mean he he eat it. Lying is legal in fucking is legal. Why isn't selling fucking legal, and here's where I'm going with this, I know I was just trying to be funny with the carlin thing, but merely carlin. Oh you or loved the carp, here's where I'm going with us. If this is not a crime, then then this whole business is handled completely. Deaf

Ok, if Jenny smith gets in a car with Joe the gambler and steve, the gambler never shows up again well, there's some that knows who she went with the it's. A different way that this type of business would would be carried out. There would be appointments made. There would be you would you would with credit card you? You know there would be there would be checks and balances and wouldn't be so easy for these crazy. Dude to pull up in their blue pickup truck rolled down the window, flash a little bit of cash, and now they got a victim sitting in the passenger passenger seat. I understand that- and I think that argument goes better with like legalizing marijuana or something like that. Yeah, I think, but the problem is Then you gonna make something legal, so these people can keep on food. In their drug habits. That's what it is most. These women they're not

because they want to do it or that they, you know when therein third grade they they grew up They wanted to be prostitutes. A lot of these women have trauma there or sexually molested. Ah, a lot of them have drug addiction. All that stuff can be cured. All that stuff can you can get therapy for I'd rather put the resources in instead of trying to make something, maybe a moral legal. How about we try to takes a problem. So this is not something that women turn as an option, but I'm not saying make it big business, like you know like him disney you know over vending machines or anything like that, what I'm saying is that if it were DE criminalized. Then, if I, get into a blue pickup truck with Steve the gambler, and he tells me up and gets violent with me. I can report that the somebody

yeah. I understand that, but that, but will, without the threat of being, were worried about being picked up for what I think is a petty crime. Nea k. That's what I think that's where we differ, I dont want these women on the streets. I dont want them, selling their bodies because I don't want them feeling bad about themselves and when they do it picked up by law enforcement. Sometimes they dropped the charges or lessen the charges some of them do get clean from that process not saying that I want women on the streets. Let's be very clear about that. I in a perfect world there would be wouldn't be a business, an apartment. Well, there would be no steve the gambler driving around in his blue pickup truck I'm just saying in in in these big cities, in what we're dealing with it, just in yeah. But what you're saying as if we make it legal then-

Steve the gamblers not driving around, and what I'm saying as if there's this, not prostitution or prostitutes on the street and deep gamblers just driving around all he wants. But how are you going to? How are you going to wipe that out? That's a big! That's a big! business there's a lot of John there's. A lot of girls lot of working girls I understand that, but I think a law that comes from are country needs to really step up the game on mental health issues. We are so far behind on this stewart yep. You know the thing is as if, if you're diagnosed with cancer for right, you know an ex girlfriend of mine diagnosed with cancer and chief. She fights it head on and she wins and great and thereby applauds her and she's a survivor. What about the hundreds and hundreds of them the people a year that are diagnosed with mental illness, will it? We don't want to talk about them, their sick, but

we don't champion those people that that at some point in their life- they said. You know I I can't handle this anymore need some direction. I need some help with this and I think if we bring that to the fore, France had look. Everybody has some issue, as everybody has things that they need to deal with, speak up, get help and I think, lot of this stuff would start going away. Ethic mass shootings would start gone away. Killing and general would start guano a lot. The crime in general would go down and I think I think that's something that we need. You can change that. That's a culture, change a very simple culture change. If you have some stuff goin on in your head, that you can't figure out, are you can't deal with step up try to talk to someone. I can help you with it I think if we could change that culture, and it wasn't stigmatized that you're some freak, because you can't figure out life too well. Well, you know then I think a lot of stuff would go away. Well,

thing too? Is? If you see somebody or know somebody and interact with them, and you think they have some issues. Maybe you need to bring that up to somebody else, because sometimes the people that are experiencing these problems? They don't understand that they have a problem right to go to any. Nobody. Can I see your point in his fair point? I give you made it legal well. I want to be clear. I am not fully going out saying that we make it legal, and I know this is gonna sound, very contradictory, I'm just saying de criminalize it and I can see that the starting point and then go on to another gonna- cannot deal with the drug diction, I must start deal. I think we're in this time period right now with our country, then it's gonna start taking the change which I gets technical if you decriminalize criminalize, it does make it legal, but I'm just saying that I think there could be different ways to handle this. I mean I don't

no, that a girl that goes out and works the streets should have to spend lengthy prison sentences after being picked up multiple times. the I mean you're talking about a non violent offender of the law. it's not. The nonviolent offender doesn't scare me the guy. Scares me steve the gambler driving around in his frickin pickup truck, because if he would do this to a prostitute, he would do this to a neighborhood girl. He would do this to a high school student. He would do it. any woman out there it just what is the EU? What is the low hanging fruit right? Right is the prostitute and I think, but have you I'm sure there's a lot of women have been locked up for, or men deserve, that men do the same thing that our law, up. They have a drug addiction and sometimes when somebody's in jail that can get clean enough to not go back.

Lifestyle. Nobody should have to live that lifestyle. But again nobody should novatians died by the hands of smiles. course. The good thing here is that dayton leeway rogers was caught. We now who was good, the of doing these terrible crimes, and now I know that we got a little graphic kind. The show we have today traffic, sometimes to tell these stories, but I did hold back, wait a bit while this is. This is the first case actually that I actually had a pause like two or three times which they won't hear cause. I we but difficult time that you ve said shit on an I just couldn't I just couldn't I apologise for the sum of the heavy oil museum. You didn't do the crime in just reporting the current year, and actually I did hold back quite a bit. If you know If you want to look more into dayton, LU, LU, roger, a sick, oh and you want to read this stuff. You know there's there's ways of going about that, but I didn't think that we needed to do tell every detail of of what

economic is exactly but well, thank god, he's he's behind bars. He can't do this to anybody else, he's currently still on death row. This is another issue and let's not get into this too much because he's andy- ro it we're talking what almost thirty years later, nor ain't right. Ok is that sends ever going to be carried out properly Are you just going to sit there and I mean? Is this going to turn into life in prison? And, furthermore, do you know that that did death Oh inmates cost us a lot more money than the life in prison. Inmates cost us because the appeals says, and they are actually given in some states in some prisons the death row. mates receive better privileges than the life sentence? People now

I dont know if we want to get to know we're, not we're not going to get into that, but what what I'm getting at is- and I used to be very eye for an eye. That's what I believe. I'm not gonna give my opinion on whether I like the death penalty or don't like the dead mentally. But my opinion is this: it if you have the death penalty, let's, but you and if you're not gonna use it, maybe your state shouldn't have the death penalty yeah. I was very very eye for an eye until you are, sars after earth slender men episode added at very nice listener, present the case of wine We should have the death penalty at all this kind of where I'm leaning right now, so ok saying that good for you, recommended reading this week. Captain we have. You know, as I said, if you, if you want to find out more about this case, there certainly up a much bigger story to tell here. There's a good book called blood lust.

and this is a bloodless. The story of a sex serial killer and its by gary see king available on our website. If you go to our website. True crime, garage dot, com, click on the amazon banner and it's gonna a search engine and you just click type in blood lust in that it take your right to the book and you can purchase that through our website. Now. Gary see king. We actually recommended him early I believe it was earlier this season. He also wrote the book about the texas, seven, right? So so he's a he's, a repeat recommended reading author, and you can actually buy anything through the amazon banner. So you just gotta true crime, garage outcome, click. the amazon banner by any book anymore, the thing maybe you want a buyer. a hoodie or something when you're out in your garage drinking that beer listening to the show. I I just bought a hoodie recently, so I can drink beer in my garage, it's July,

yeah, but gonna gets caught a mom, I'm old, ok, you're planning for the winter. I like that, so hey, just a reminder, go to true crime garage dot com. We now have each crime garage tv, you can watch the son of sam video and were what get more videos. So a big thanks to Gavin cook. We also have a new com, Gavin cook, but I com the chubby bohemia here. Everybody's gotta get a nickname in the garage yeah. I don't. He is probably not gonna like this nickname, but it is what it is at this point. I love that and we also have our garage sale still going on. We have our t shirts tell them about the t, shirts. We have the women listeners said we want to be neck, and I said: ok, and I said what color and they said purple so there it is purple thee neck. It has the true crime. Brewing company logo cause we're starting brewing company. You are asked, and we said hell yes hell yes now and we also have a blue tank top with, or

print. So it goes a long way to support in the show two tickets to the gun show and the best thing I can do to help support the show, as we are trying to get to the point where due two shows a week. Gettin talking a lot about this. It's what now what why are we doing to show the weak, because You have a job and I have a job. So the sooner we can get the show bigger the sooner we can do. Two shows of the best thing you can do. It always is just tell a friend tell a friend yes and subject yeah. We got three more episode to go in season to re links. Thirty, eight right, yeah, so three more would be forty. One season is twenty episodes yeah yeah we at the bonus show plus we had the the final the final case, so we do for the season is going to be huge. It's going to blow your mind, it's going to take at least two two episodes to

tell the whole story. That's when she said it's, it's like trump is going to be huge. It's going to be that's going to be fantastic, it's going to be absolutely huh. Can you bring up the death penalty, legalize prostitution and trump yeah than I am super excited super stoked for the final three episodes of season. Two can't wait to do its job, in the garage next week same bat time same bat channel and don't let him. support for this programme comes from arkansas escape, your natural state,

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