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Delphi Murders Revisited /// Part 1 /// 320

2019-07-23 | 🔗

Delphi Murders Revisited /// Part 1 /// 320

Part 1 of 2


This week we revisit a case we covered back in May of 2017. This case is now over two years old but it is far from cold. We will explain why as we give a complete rundown of both the timeline and the suspects. Beer of the Week - pFriem Pilsner by the pFriem Family Brewers Garage Grade - 4 out of 5 bottle caps

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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the basically we have identified the bodies of the two, the females that were found out yesterday or yes yesterday, the bodies are of have been positively identified as Abigail J Williams. Thirteen of the delphi area and liberty rose lynn, german fourteen the delphi area the two girls were reported missing. On Monday february thirteenth, the bodies were discovered about twelve fifteen on the fourteenth in the woods just east of town here by volunteers, to help in the search of the children after they were reported missing to shoot carroll county sheriff's department, family has been notified. This is considered double homicide investigation no further patient will be released at this time we we have nobody in custody at this time. So as far as I'm concerned, yes, there is somebody out there that did this for in this crime and we're going to.
It is disturbing. It is concerning a sheriff in my position, and I want to have I guess a sure the community is is for barely indicated, where, at the bottom of this, we feel confident- and you know we're gonna we're gonna- do everything we can within our resources to reach justice in this situation the the This is delphi indiana, and our case starts the afternoon of february thirteenth, two thousand and seventeen at about one forty in the afternoon ten year old, abbe Williams and fourteen year old, Libby german were dropped off by Libya's older sister kelsey. The drop off location is at a trail head on county road, three hundred north. This is near the scene. It,
mon high bridge, which is an abandoned, railroad bridge that goes over dear creek and carol county indiana. Ok, I'm going to try to get as detailed on this portion of our time line as I can so before the girls left to go to the bridge and the trails libby asked her older sister kelsey several times if she could drive them out there, to which kelsey said no several times before, basically giving in and saying yes, now, liberty had already secured permission from her grandmother Becky to go to the bridge, the idea was Becky said. Yes, you in abbe can go to the bridge. If you get a ride there and if you can get a ride back, so the plan was for kelsey to drop the two girls off
then around three thirty p m lobbies, father Derek, would pick both of them up this three thirty marker is just a general time. As Derek said, he would call libby when he was close to the pick up location. So kelsey drops the girls and then calls her boyfriend to tell him that she is en route to go. Hang out with him. Kelsey was going to go, hang out with him and then go off to work while walking on the trail libby pose a photo to snapchat. This is the now famous two o seven p m snapchat photo showing abbe crossing the moaning high bridge.
Three eleven p m Derek calls libya phone libby does not answer at three. Thirteen derek makes another call Derek says. Both of these calls go to voice mail, but after ringing, so Liddy's phone rings, and then the calls go to voicemail eventually and I've seen it reported. This might have been as early as three thirty p m calls to libya phone start going directly to voicemail when this second call goes to voicemail derek parks, the car so now he is parked in a location where he can pick up the girls. This is the same general location where the two girls were originally dropped off their claims that once he parks the car he gets out of his car immediately yeah. He part at the trail had any walks through the trail within minutes of
working the vehicle and starting off on the trail on foot. He comes to an intersecting path. He says it's here where he sees as he as described an older man with a plan or flannel shirt on. He asked this man if he has seen two girls to which the man responds no, but I saw a couple on the bridge These trails out there are numbered. The intersecting trails are the five or one trail in the five o five trail derek is going to walk down the five o five trail to look for the girl,
is now, forgive me every one, as I have only seen this on maps, but it appears to me that the five or one trail is the more heavily travelled trail. It appears to be like the main trail. Their derek takes the other trail, the five o five, which dead ends at dear creek. He does not find the girls and he does not see any one else, so he turns around and he heads back the way he came walking all the way back to his vehicle once he is near his vehicle. He calls Becky. Paddy Becky is Libya's grandmother. Derek is telling her hey. I'm here Libya's not picking up the phone. The girls are not here this. This phone call takes place at three thirty p m. After the call, Derek is going to walk the fight
the one path, so he gets there he's calling obeys answering he walks down a path. The less lesser travelled path gets back to the car. Still nothing now he's gonna go walked the main path, but at this point there has to be some level of concern. Oh yeah yeah so much so that he's already called Becky the grandmother right. So, let's give a general description of this path, which I think is very important for those that have not seen this on a map all right from where he is parked. The general description is that, starting from where he parked, he walks a short distance on a short trail. Once there he is standing at the five o one trail, which is a long trail. It's the more travelled trail. It's also called the moaning high bridge trail, because if you are standing right there at the intersecting trails. Try
Five or one or the moaning high bridge trail to the northwest goes all the way through the freedom bridge, which is a beautiful pedestrian bridge that extends over highway. Twenty five, better known as the hoosier heartland highway, were triple h for a rustling thanks to the northwest. Is this beautiful freedom? Bring tried to the southeast? Is the moan and high bridge, so Derek goes up to the freedom bridge to see if the girls are up there. It does not see them, then again, he turns around by the time he gets back to the intersecting trails. This is when members of Libya family start
arrive to help in the search. Remember we said kelsey was going to work well, she got a call from Becky the grandmother who is a learning the family that libya is missing so instead of going to work, kelsey returns to help as well just real quick. Just to recap, because a lot of things are happening here. The girls were dropped off at approximately one. Forty p I've seen this time as early as one thirty five p m and as late as one forty five p m, the snapchat photo is at two o, seven p m So we know they are alive and well at two o seven, then not in an hour and a half later less than nine, and its later derek is there at three fifteen looking for them at three thirty Becky is notified
and by four p m less than two hours after the snapchat photo multiple members of libya. Family are there at the trails and looking for the girls between Three thirty and four p m. Her family continues to try to call her some leaving voice, males and some texting as well at about four twenty p m kelsey, along with coty coty, is levies uncle kelsey and code set out down the trail and they go in the direction of the moon and high bridge and they actually cross the bridge when they get to the other side of the bridge. They went to a cup the homes in the area knocking on doors to inquire about Libby and abbe according to kelsey in cody. They only speak to one person and, of course, that person had not seen the girls mike patty is Libya's grandfather.
Just a quick background for those who are less familiar with the case. Libby and her older sister kelsey were raised by their grandparents MIKE Becky. Derek is therefore both their father and mother are involved in their lives, but the mother lives all the way or lived at the time about four hours away in Kentucky. Might paddy levies grandfather arrives on the scene. This is right around five p m. Now there's
residents very near the trail had parking area mike goes to this home. He knows these people there at the home, while there he calls a friend of his who is a police officer, then might goes back to the trails. This is around five. Twenty p m at five: thirty p m libya, family calls and notifies the police. A huge search gets under way, but is called off once it gets too dark in a news. Release carol, county sheriff toby lays and be says there is no reason to suspect foul play or believe the girls are in immediate danger, one based off a video footage and photos that I've seen of this area
this would be difficult, I think, to search at night. Actually I actually think parts of it would actually be dangerous to search at night. There steep hills there, and there's also I mean that bridge that moan and high bridge is dangerous in itself by its an abandoned railroad bridge. Anybody that walks across it and many people have it was a popular place to go before This incident, but even after people have found themselves, are taken pictures of themselves on this bridge and you see everybody looking down as they walk it. It's a seventy foot, drop it. Seventy or seventy five foot drop. If you fall off that bridge and and buddy, that's ever walked on an abandoned railroad bridge knows that that sometimes they're missing steps and even all the steps that are there, they there's a distance between them. Where you could you could twist an ankle, you could easily lose your footing right and
top of that too. I've seen pictures of this area, both in the summer fall winter and even in the month of february, even all the leaves off of the trees. This is an area that is heavily wooded in a lot of parts and tough to see things at any distance at all, even when the the leaves are off of the trees right. So they call the search there. They're trying be hopeful, but I'd be a little concerned that, if they're out there somewhere in the park that this is not the best area for them to be in firstly, after dark right and you have the highway that's right by their the andy. A highway number, twenty five, which we discuss it on other cases too. You don't want it appear, go missing right around a highway, but that also proud,
believe, leads to some kind of discussion on several levels. These are young teenage girls, it's it's, they ve only been missing for a few hours, probably Let's say five six hours by the time they call off the search bright year, probably having the discussion with her caretakers with with the parents and caretakers of these two young girls that they might have, they might be off partying with somebody or they might be out. You know doing something right. They could have been drop us off at the park, we're going to meet up with somebody that they just didn't tell their guardians about so they're not going to start searching until the next morning, which would be february fourteenth two thousand and seventeen yeah. The urge continues for the girls, and there are several of these teams of searchers out there. They you can find on youtube and any other.
But there, where local remember that they were calling that morning. They were out on tv broadcasting in saying anybody that is available today. Please come out and help us search this area for these two girls, but unfortunately, just after around twelve o clock noon, one of the teams fines to bodies- and this is about a half a mile away from the bridge from the mountain high bridge. So if you're looking at a map of the area and based off of later evidence, the girls were abducted after two o, seven p m. We know that from the the chat photo and they would have been abducted after two o seven p m at the south east side of the bridge. This where they were likely ordered by the abductor to go down the hill. They would have went down the hill.
And then across a long private driveway. Now this is not keep a mind. This is not the suburbs. so when we say driveway, it's not what anybody's picturing this dry way looks like a long, rabble and dirt road, and at this approximate location you can't really see any houses, there's not houses or, like other roads, visible at this location. So as soon as they go across this dirt road, gravel road, I have a driveway whatever you want to call it, they would have then went down yet another hill, and this one is steeper than the last. This would put them right at the edge of deer creek. The bodies were found on the opposite side of this creek about fifty feet from the north bank of deer. Creek police have not publicly stated.
All. The girls were murdered in law enforcement, secured a large area of this north bank of the creek with crime scene tape as well. as some of the areas from that south east side of the bridge working your way down to the creek side. We do not know if the girls were ordered to cross the creek at the shallow point there or if they tried to make a run for it or if, in fact, they may have been killed and then carried across the creek to try to conceal the bodies further. We we don't know that, but we know that they were found across the creek. Is there any way to get across the creek? Some other way like by dry
mean down a path, or I say that they crossed at the shallow point, because that would be what would make the most sense be from from where they were found. I'm right, if you were to cross the creek it there's, there's that one shallow point right there in it's near that north bank area, where they were were found, and I don't believe that police have actually disclose whether or not their clothing was wet with the creek water. Well, That's that's the difficult thing here in this case and that's why we're going to go through in this manner, because when we originally covered it was very early in the case, and there is low to known facts about the case there, a lot of speculation. There was even speculation
That time that they were found in the creek and we can pieced together, words of of law enforcement and detectives sense, then, to know that that's not true, they were found on dry ground about fifty feet from the creek side regarding the Wet clothing. We don't know if their clothing was found at all by two for starters and. Factoring in the the distance of time the time that has elapsed from win its believed that they were abducted and likely killed two when they were found. I can't say I can't say if their clothes would have been so When, at that time, what I can say, what you're saying does so we're clear you're, not saying that there were found nude. I don't know, we don't want. Why don't ya, but that's all I'm saying is, though the way you may sound was like we don't know of their clothes were even found right.
Right about wear clothes and I'm sam- we just don't now we can we don't you. We don't even have anybody to tell us if the clothes, clothes was worn them was round was, was never their whatever. But what I'm going to guess here and say is that and I'm basing this simply off of just what the police do In fact, rope off with with the large area on that north bank, so creek side with crime scene tape, I'm completely guessing here after him, but it it would seem more likely to me that they were, they were probably killed on the side of the creek in which they were found. Again. I don't know if that means that they were ordered to cross the creek or if they tried to make a run for it. Now, on the fifteenth on February, fifteenth AP these were conducted on the bodies that afternoon indiana state police in the carol county, sheriffs department held a press conference and they did confirm
they found liberty and Abigail Libby and abbe. The girls were murdered and again they did not state how they were killed. Indiana state police also released a photo of a man reportedly seen on the trail around the time the girls disappeared. The image shows a white male with his hands in his pockets, while walking on the bridge he's wearing. Jeans and a navy blue jacket and a hat. Well, the the hat is still an argument, but a lot of the news pressures that came out around this time describe him as wearing a hat was very pixelate in police. This is the other tricky thing here right from So please do not call the man a suspect but say that they would like to talk with him you. Ve seen this tactic in other cases, sometimes that person is actually concern
this aspect by law enforcement, but by releasing it in this manner by not calling him a suspect. In just saying we would like to talk with him. There have been cases that individual has come forward to try to explain away why they are in the area at that time is high. You looking for me now. Also law enforcement does not say where the photo came from or how they obtained the photo. Now I remember thinking And- and I don't think this was stated anywhere mind, and I know it wasn't stated by law enforcement, but I'm sure others may have been thinking the same thing that I thought. Maybe this photo this it was still image may have just been captured from some of trail camera right, but we're gonna, soon learn that this actually was taken by Libby on her father. The
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all right, we're back cheer chairs to you captain on february, twenty six, In two thousand and seventeen there is another news conference. This is the now famous news conference where police reveal that one of the victims Libby recorded video and audio of the suspect on herself on the odd recording is released to the public. It's a man's voice, saying down the hill. This audio triggered more than a thousand tips we cap You- and I like so many others- offered our speculation on not only the photo, but the odd.
when we first covered this case back in may of two thousand and seventeen and episodes one ten and one eleven. Yet those are free to listen to on this. To draw up. And a lot of, the speculation that was involved between you and I and my guess at others on their tv shows. Their podcast in newspaper articles everywhere was how much more does police have what more was recovered from libya phone, and we also question things like you know that the voice sounds muffled. Is that because the phone was can see in her pocket, and how did they obtain this information that was on her phone? Was her phone in fact found? I believe now I you know at the time I thought. Maybe they pulled this stuff from the the cloud possibly
I've changed my opinion on that, I'm starting to think that they probably found her phone, and it was just a. I think the killer was in rush to get out of there in may have not known that his image in his voice was captured on her phone or was unaware. That she had a phone? I mean there's any any number reasons out there, but again, I'm just simply guessing on that, but I wanted to mention that I've changed my thoughts and feelings on the. I think pop very likely that they found her phone now by march first, the reward money for information in the case grew to two hundred thousand dollars. eight days later, mike paddy levies, grandfather
who some on the internet were saying, looked like the suspect or the bridge guy speaks out publicly for the first time at the carol county court house. Personally, I dont think MIKE looks anything like what I think I'm seeing in the photo of the bridge guy, and I say what I think that I'm seeing because, as you pointed out, it's a picture, pixel elated. Grainy, photo right. It's taken some distance away. The man on the bridge, the bridge guy, is some distance away from libya. When she took this video footage and what's released the public, there's hot,
debate and has been for almost two year well for over two years about what we are seeing and what this individual looks like. But again personally, I dont think nor have I ever thought that that MIKE patty looks anything like what we are seeing in that photo and then later the video footage right. But you have to children dead. We have no evidence of the grandfather being there around two o clock, let's say, and you would think that, with this information he might not of known let's say hypothetically, it was him he wouldn't have known that he was held in his picture taken by her. You would think. that somebody in the family would come forward and say that looks like him yeah and there's no by coming forward and in doing that
and I think they probably agree with me that it doesn't that they don't think it looks like him one. I don't think it looks like, body type. I don't think it looks like his face. I don't think it looks like is his facial features, his hair, his nothing like there's, there's none of it that other than it being a white I write, I don't see any other any other possible connection plus. We know that might patty has an alibi for that time, p He he very likely when you really tear through this time line and some the phone calls that were going on right. I find it very light Lee that might patty would have been unaware that the girls were even there until they were until people were worried right until they said, hey, they're missing, and I think that's what so difficult in this case, as it seems like there's, a lot of grabbing at sea
cause I mean the first thing that I'd want to know investigating this case is one we don't know if this bridge guy is connected or not we're not law enforcement. So we don't know the extent of information that that phone captured do. We have minutes of audio footage. Do we have minutes of video footage? We don't know we're not law enforcement and might but my first thing when looking at this case is who was supposed to drop her off. Where were they at? What's their alibi? After that, then it becomes who was supposed to pick them up. Where's his location based off, maybe cell phone pings. yeah out does the does the father get their earlier than he says he did oh yeah, where where was he tat? What's his alibi? What would his motive being?
This is where I would start, but you see quickly in this case people jumping to that looks like the grandpa And an haven't really no evidence to connect connect that at all. Well in that's what this case will has been and will continue to be, and this is not a stand alone incident. We ve seen this and other cases where they were lisa composite sketch falling of the person last seen with somebody or potential suspect ray and you get a flood, people calling in and the tip is not a great tipp. It's just a tip of I know somebody that looks like that or was driving on the on the this such and such rode on main street, and I passed a car in the guy in the car. Looked exactly like that. Dude were like that picture like that drawing, but what we will learn is dead,
We will eventually learn just a clear anything up here that the the image captured on libya phone It is. It is announced later that that is the killer of of the two girls, so that is the person that we are looking for. The debate is, what are we seeing? What does he action? you look like, because it's a grainy again it's a grainy picture and he he's walking with his face down and he's not walking with his face down to try to conceal himself from her her camera phone idle. And even knew that he was being videotaped. he's looking down, because he's making sure that he doesn't lose his footing on that bridge rise and fall. Seventy feet just like everybody else, if it, if this guy felt that he needed to conceal his face from
from these two girls. He would put on a mask, or he would put something on. He would have done that in a different manner, other than just simply looking down as he's walking toward them, and I want to go ahead and throw this out there too, and you can tell that he's hurriedly he's he's an hour hurry, walking towards them, so even more important that he's paying attention to the placement of his feet as he makes his way across the bridge. What we're going to see here, though this whole thing that I'm pointing out here with mike paddy, but the grandfather he's making this this very personalized statement. This very heartfelt statement, at the count courthouse, but I'm pointing this out because on the internet
bore saying that he looked like the suspect or some people thought he looked like the suspect. This is really just the start of the online suspects that we will see in this case and it quickly continued because March, seventeenth, the indiana state police, the fbi and carol county sheriffs deputies serve a search warrant This is at the home of wrong. Logan, wrongly and owns the thirty acre price pretty where abbey and Libby were found, the pop or tv show inside addition, speaks to this man in his interview. He says he was buying tropical fish at the time of the murders. Ron Logan is later arrested and sentenced to two years for operating a vehicle. This is after her
legally operating a vehicle. This is, after being a habitual traffic offender. He is accused of driving to the county dump on the same day that the girls vanish to be one hundred percent clear he has not been charged in regards to the murders, although he certainly been same kind of scenario. A lot of people saw his interview, went that looks like the guy right and it's his property. So and some debate on how cooperative he has been with police right I've seen people that have said roger has been gone out of his way to do everything he can to make sure that they know what he was up to that he was not involved, and then I've heard other other arguments they have said just didn't complete counter of that, then the he has not been very
it's coming yeah and a lot of people actually speculate that here's this lesser charge that we can charge him with and therefore maybe he would then say something because I remember at the time once they arrested him. It's like okay, well, here's this guy that claimed he was somewhere where he wasn't the out, then they mean why's. He had the dump the day that these
these girls are found yeah. None of this is sounding good. Is it yet that doesn't sound good? What what is he disposing of because, yes, you've, you find these bodies, but again we don't know if they were clothed or not clothe, and then on top of that, what did he use for these murders and did he go to the dump him and dump those to a lot of people speculated early that this was a a tactic to get him behind bars, get him thinking about what happened, get him away from everybody and therefore he would then come forward and- and maybe could possibly confess to this. The other thing, though, too, is you know we talk about what does not sound good for four wrong. What does look good to me, as I dont think, did he look like the bridge guy? I think wrong looks considerably older than what I think I'm seeing in that picture, and he, I don't think he match,
The description? Not only does he look older, he looks a little bit. He looks taller to me than than what we believe we are looking for and then, in July, of two thousand and seventeen after every one was waiting and waiting for the other, shoe to drop for some kind of new information. On the case, the indiana state police released a sketch of the murders aspect. The person depicted in the composite sketch is described as a white male between five foot, six inches tall to five foot tenant. star weighing a hundred and eighty two, two hundred and twenty pounds with reddish brown, hair and color unknown right. So this would go against logan. yeah his a hair color one. Also the drawing, looks a lot younger than than Logan looks. And this is the this part of the sea
You can get a little confusing for people not so familiar with the case, because there are eventually to sketches released. This is the first one any I guarantee that people have seen. This is the one with the the flap a cat on in the little the kind of thing goatee hair stick. out on the sides around the ears and the end, Jewel wearing a hoodie bonn the picture that their release to the public, its very picks awaited. So then one would have to start assuming that they had some other angle, ah some other picture that they found on libya phone and that's how they are getting this trawling Well, that's that's interesting. That's always been another hotly debated item, so it's real word and then later stated on, the doktor phil show that that that this sketch was the price
act of more than one eye. Witness who saw this man on the trails so going off of that statement. It seems like this sketches not compiled based off what they think they were seeing on her phone her on that footage, but based off of more than one eye witness who saw or claims to have seen this man on the trail, the the day that the girls were killed now for some speculation on this, several people have put together and compiled some good info on this case, and these people seem to believe that, given the timing of the known facts and of the persons on the trails that day and levies family They are searching for her just shortly after the abduction for there to be more than one eye witness of this man me
believe he must have been spotted both before and after the murders. Some have made a strong case that the man wearing the plaid or flannel shirt the interacted with Derek on the trail intersection before three thirty p m people have pointed out that he must be or very likely could be one of the persons to have seen the suspect and, given that time line, he likely saw the suspect after the murders when the suspect was trying to leave the area. This is interesting on several levels if, in fact that it, if it's true one because Has never been publicly released where the public, where the suspect was spotted and by who And even though there are several theories out there, we don't know what route or
exactly where the suspect left the area from right from law enforcement statements, its believed at least one witness is a man, and at least one witness to the suspect. was a female, and I say that because in one of the pressures, when giving answers, one of the officers says she and in response to this composite sketch so that I'd argue or to speculate that these eyewitness accounts are before pre murder, because, where they're found and in the area that they're found is, is it's off the trail and to then backtracking to get back onto the trail to leave? And my gut is telling me that
That's not how I happen, that's possible, but we don't know where this, where this monster parked his vehicle bright, and It might have had a vehicle there at all. It may not have been out of design. It may been, if had to have been out of necessity, to make his way back and backtrack through the trails correct. He could have also I avoided the main trail for a large portion of whatever part that he had to walk back to his vehicle. You know tromping through the woods as much as he could until he had to get back onto the trail and and if you, if he had to get back on the trail, I would say that would be more likely
we cannot say for certain that the man in the platter, flannel shirt, was one of the people that claims to have seen the suspect that that was provided details to come up with this sketch, but I'm guessing based off of that in this individual is talked with with police pretty extensively. If, regarding his timeline, flannel shirt man, plaid shirt man's timeline right, if he, if he tells police, I did not arrive until it to the park or trail area until this time. That might be why the speculation is that maybe he did. In fact see the suspect after the murders, because we now what's so interesting about this time line to me and what we did not know when we first covered this case is though the window and which, though the murders very likely, occur,
is so much shorter than what we originally thought right, we're talking about it, very likely that this this all went down between about two fifteen in and maybe three o clock. It seems to be generally believed or or theorized that the key had already made his way out of that general area by the time or shortly after Derek levies, father arrived and looking for her, and I think you can base that that off of his interaction with the flannel shirt man. Right all sorry,
down. I went down on a long road there, but thank you for for joining me on it that work. I also want to bring up the fact that, based on its speculated, is there not us how they died, what how they were killed right, but from some of the rumors out there that you would think that this guy would have some kind of blood on him. There would be some kind of blood evidence, and so that's why, like I said, whether you're leaving from a different way that you came in because you could back track somewhere or, like you said, and I agree with you- stay in off the path as long as you can, because you have this evidence on you that something bad happened, and so so I think,
again, they have all this information there only releasing bits and pieces, so we can only speculate on some of these things. You know what I do want to point out: real quick while we're on that topic before before the thought leaves my tiny little brain here. There is one you tube or whose done while their several you tubers. It have done a lot of work case, some of it good, some of it bad. Just that's my warning. If you, if you choose to go down that path, don't say that nick don't say that the colonel in the captain censure when they are swim at your own risk? Some of it is good in some of it, is absolutely painful and terrible to watch
yeah, but that's not good enough right, but at the end of the day, there's two murdered kids and I think that's why the community has a community of truth. Cramer's have tried and got behind this case and and tried to do everything they can to put the word out there, and sometimes people get fixated in their ideas and fixated on. You know it has to be this logan guy or has to be. The father has to be the grandfather or they just get fixated, but at the end of the day, I think they don't mean harm by that. I think they're really trying to bring attention to the case well It is one thing that I found super interesting that this this guy did, and I can't remember his first name last named greenow greener- has done a lot of you to work ass case and one thing that he did that I found incredibly interesting was
he had a a man wear about the same color of jeans cause. That's one thing: you can't dispute, that's not up for debate. We know we can look at that picture and see what color those genes are that the guy was wearing, and so he had somebody where the same color of genes and remember what we do know is this the killer. The bridge guy would have had to cross that creek at some point and it it would either be because he ordered the girls across the creek and killed him there or he transported the bodies air or he or he chased out. Then because they try to make a run for right, so those are two known facts, and this is what I think is brilliant anybody any time anybody can take some now facts and then do a little expense station with em fantastic work, so so a big kudos too. we know there, but what he did was he had a man where this.
Color of genes and then walk across that creek at that shallow area and then very shortly afterwards, he videotaped the guy's genes, which sounds silly. But what he's pointing out is And it was very clear on the on the from his footage if this man, if the bridge guy walking and later spotted by somebody, it's very likely that nobody would say. I saw a man wearing wet genes, walking on the trail the way the color those genes when he found them after the guy walked across the water. Their prime did not appear to look wet to me, which I found fascinating, because that was one thing that I always wondered about once we learned more of the area of where, in fact they were found, I kept going well, why wouldn't of eta these witnesses and out of these people, they were at the bridge and at the trails those days that day and then all these people,
from Libya family there shortly afterwards. Looking for her, it would and so easy for police to get a tipp it. Oh, I saw that looked exactly like this in what was so odd about him. Was he was soaking wet, but we don't have that tipp right again. We don't know you would think baby. You would see more of that, if of the perpetrator chased after them and had to run through the water, but again, if it's one of those things where it's the the crime happened on one side and then the murderer transported their bodies over, he could roll up your jeans or whatever, but basically what what your state in, which I think is very intelligent, is the idea of even if they walked through the water he might not have seen this might not have stuck out to you know, because all it looks like is a darker pair of
blue jeans, it doesn't look like like they're soaking wet. It just looks like a darker color, a darker shade of blue and here's. The other thing too, regarding MIKE patty and the and the property owner logan ron, Logan. Look I understand people have their suspicions, but I want to throw this out there just so we can all try to get on the same page. This is some fumbling and bubbling investigation. This is the state police. This is the fbi. This is the shares department. This is as Many agencies, as you can possibly think, of working together, putting all their resources and to solving this case keyword fbi if the the bridge guy, was somebody so close and social circle to one of the victims, such as might paddy or somebody, so
those in proximity as to run logan to wear. The bodies were found on property is for two years. This thing would have been solved by now now nobody's out standing on a hill, saying I'm the die on this hill and argue this to death that these two were not involved? nobody's doing that so they're still public speculation and suspicion out there. I'm saying. that I believe, if somebody was so close, either proxy what he or relationship to the girls that committed this crime, that was was in fact, bridge guy the killer. This thing would have been solved by now. It seems so far fetched that that that that would be the result when this thing does
Finally get solved because it will so, let's continue on with some some other suspects here, captain why I just want to say I agree with you mostly, but again we don't know what evidence they have and what evidence they don't have and so on. But what we do know is that they haven't come out publicly and said that logan is not involved. They haven't come out publicly and and stated that that they cleared everybody in the family, were cleared. People were enclosed circles, so that has to remain on the table. One, I think, specially the family members
nor my understanding of that you take any case like where a wife is murdered and they heavily investigate the husband most of the time. If, if the husband is innocent, he said that's fine. Keep looking at me, keep keep investigating me if you want you're going to get to a dead end at some point. So I think that you have to keep those on the table because again we don't know exactly what they have and what they thought well. This is where, for some the levy broke, and this is on september. Seventeenth, two thousand seventeen. When authorities in colorado arrested a man named Daniel nations for having expired, indiana license plates police say he could he linked to the murders and call him a person of interest in the delphi.
Case Daniel nations is a sex offender from the state of indiana and he was homeless at the time of the moon, or so nailing down. His whereabouts is difficult to say the least. Nation's wife says he resembles the police sketch of the suspect, but did not own the clothing seen in the photo. Yet, in fact she told the gazette newspaper quote I can't tell if that is him or not, but the one thing I am not going to buckle on. He did not have that jacket. so Daniel nations was arrested during the tim watkins murder investigation. This murder took place in the state of colorado to be clear,
He was arrested during this investigation, but he was not been charged in the murder of TIM watkins, even though there are some who suspect, nations could possibly have killed tim right because he was seen and reported to be threatening people with a hatchet on the trails out there, but to walking, was killed with a gun and authorities have been unable to link nations to a gun and the murder of TIM watkins. Here's what happened in the public eye, though you hear here's this guy that was arrested. He was on these trails. He was threatening people with a hatchet you go and he's from Indiana, and I believe he had a probation hearing or of some kind of hearing that he was supposed to show up to it. Was he supposed to check in regular leaf because he's a ex offender right he's, like suppose, he's got parole officer and all that jazz he's gotta, show up and say a I'm here, I'm still, I am still working at my job I'm, but my nose clean, I'm not doing weird, both
except he didn't, show up yeah. But it was like the week after the murders was like some weird timing, where it's like, so not only judy. You know. Not only do you not know his whereabouts when he was in Indiana but to hear these murders take place and you take off Next round, with next time, I see you you're in colorado, threatening people with a hatchet like a complete, not job, and if you see his picture and you see the first rolling of the suspect you go, I can see that and then that was it. They there were saying that there are transported him back to indiana. and then which is kind around for awhile, while just wondering what was happening. Yet we talked about who, I think, does not look like the sketch or the bridge. Guy of what I think, I'm seeing in the in the picture. There yeah.
If you put mike paddy ron, logan and dance nations in a line up and said nick, which one of these looks like the bridge guy, I'm saying Daniel nations please step forward here. He looks to me I'll much more alike potential lines guys the other to the same hair color as described as well, seem weird face. But He he claims his alibi is that he was too going along with his wife for a doctor's visit. That day, to which later she says, I believe he was with me, but I can't I can't prove one hundred percent that he was in fact with me. That day now keep in mind she's being asked this. You know six months later, right, seven months later, we covered walk in case if anybody's interested in checking that our earlier this year in march, this is episodes to eighty four to eighty five and we also covered the day.
All nations portion of that case in depth and those episodes on February fourteenth two thousand and eighteen one year after the double homicides Libby, an abbe authorities say Daniel nations is not a suspect, saying quote: we went out to colorado and we spent a little bit of time with Daniel nations and he is not a person. We care a whole lot about at this time. This comes from superintendent douglas carter with the indian state police. He said this at a news conference. This is where I think the the dna question comes up right, because you- and I have been fairly vocal about this on off. The record are on our other, show questioning,
If, in fact, they have dna now, what we can report is this. We know that early in the investigation, it was stated that they had dna that disappeared from the news at some point and disappeared from their statements. At some point,. now there is also a rumour that very quickly I mean we're talking like the next day two days after the girls were found very quickly in this investigation, the first forty eight force first, seventy two hours after Finding the bodies, the local rumor, is that the state police We were in the area. Knocking doors, not only interviewing everybody that lived in the immediate area, but also asking them to submit dna right would,
what lead you to believe that they have dna, but what if it was just like as a cautionary, not measure our talkin to you will you submit dna? You well. Thank you so much autopsy comes back. We have no dna from perpetrator. and your exactly right and that's that's the whole problem with public perception on this case and others as well. You can't immediately go while they're asking people for dna, so they must have it you just. You can't believe that, because it is a tactic, its investigative tool just to see You can make somebody squirm and if they squirm, when you ask him a question or ask him to cooperate in any shape or form Then you want to know why the hell, they're, squirm and right way, so I gotta you squirm environment year die.
Agree with you. One hundred percent your captain. I personally think that they have dna or some form of dna, and I say that for a couple reasons I am not convinced I'm not one hundred per cent convince, I could be talked the other way, but this this whole statement of of Daniel nations is not really somebody that we really care a whole lot about. That's that's like a vague statement of almost well. Did you clear the guy because it sounds, I mean the public. It seemed like like watching the old frankenstein movie, where the, where there's a mob with torches and are ready to hang this guy, and in Come out with some vague statement, and I am not criticising police because I think they ve done. I think they worked incredibly hard on this case, but the vague statement
they have not been willing to show their hand they dont have to. They don't want to its it's on where this is our ally. When another really worried about right, we have, but we have two dead. Kids. I spent over two years and oh right I do not want the vessel have to show their hands, they don't they don't write, but I would understand who the victims are, I'm not going to ask them to compromise their investigation in any former fashion. Now I don't want them to compromise it now. So what I don't understand what you're asking know. What I'm saying is that I think your statement is a little silly, because it's like well there then I have to show any. They now have to do anything well, whatever there they ve done so far. The obviously hasn't worked. I mean we have evidence of that. So I dont know what their spouses
No, I'm not I'm not a detective. I couldn't tell you what they're supposed to do. I lean to work towards the idea that they don't have dna and the reason why normally when they have solid dna and cases, especially child murder cases, we ve, this with germany ramsay in and other cases like that, where they test the dna and they definitively tell you that this guy's cleared. You see I mean and that's where I wonder if they have it because of date, if they do
Avid in their testing people in there clearing people on they're, not making that public's. You know public knowledge, then that's a bad thing because just take this logan guy, for example, these these girls are found on his property, thirty acres, which is pretty freaking big and think about the ringer that they put him through and if they had the dna to test against his hoes. They that put ron logan through a wringer is that law enforcement or the public, because law enforcement is not in charge of the public. No, I understand that. But again, if law enforcement has the dna and they matched it and it didn't match logan's dna, then I think you have a responsibility when you know the public is going after this guy, like you said, like the old frankenstein movies you I think you have all the
nation to him you're supposed to serve and protect each individual, and if you have a task that definitively shows that he wasn't involved the idea you have the obligation to then come on, go hey. We know that people speculate in that it is right. But that's that's my reasoning that to me that's the evidence that they don't have the dna, because or that they don't have wrought logan's dna yeah, but he was arrested. They could have taken his dna then and same way with nations. So here's to individuals is that are highly sus
act on top of that- a third in the gazette- a felony charge, because I I think in in most states it you have to be charged and convicted of a felony to be forced to submit your dna. I could be wrong, but that's my understanding be forced, but if you're a gay again- okay, obviously we don't know for a fact. If they have logan's dna or not or do they have nation's dna? Do they have The grandfathers dna, I'm not for sure, but I would just assume that if I'm the grandfather and in every based ain't, hey, you calculate the bridge guy and they in law. Spends tommy day have dna. and I know not the killer. Swap me up so that to me, that's: u like, like us, like you said, to me. There's not definitive evidence, but me there's enough showing me they're, not it's just like with this
things guy. I know nowhere. It's quite well we're not that and arrested their exact words, or he is somebody that we not. We do not care a whole lot about at this time right, but again that strong, definitive right. That's what I said: a vague state rights, so that makes me book that makes me feel like that I don't have the dna evidence because they're kind of like well, we don't care about them at this time, but I think if they had dna, a evidence, they would say we're not interested in him with him about this case period, not like we're not interested with him at this time. Again, though, I go. I I think that that goes back to a couple of things. One hundred percent it comes as to whether they have dna or not, but on two different levels. I think if they dont have dna, they want in their fine with the bridge, guy
walking around believing that they have it or suspecting that they have a right so. They don't want to show their hand on that front if they don't have it now, if they do have it in their something up with it by that's tricky to there could be some kind of arm why they call that when there is actually a mixture well, there there's a brazilian different things that could be going on with it so one it could be that they have it, but it they're sample is of such that they need to compare it to a profile and they can't really do a whole lot with it without having a having a match to compare to bright. If that's the case, that's difficult or they could have it and it be contaminated right, they could had it I mean. There's it there's a million different things that you can really go into here. The reason why I go on the opposite side and in what's interesting. I think here is it real
you and I can have the same argument for different sides of the fence. Is that my, Where I ween too did they probably have some form of dna, is it they are somewhat dismissing people, and we see that with nations, which is which is the same injustice, good of an argument is you're, saying: well they ve. cleared other people who probably should be cleared in the eyes of the public right and so therefore makes me think that they don't. I the dra and the and the the other reason why set at two. Those is with the press conferences with talking with.
but the family, members and everybody's respect for these law enforcement officers and the respect that I you could you gotta give it to him? Just when you hear the press conference, how much they care, how much they're working towards this? They seem like good officers and if they were able to clear guide that that the society was trying to throw shade on. I think that would do it. You know one hundred per cent. I think they would come out and say one hundred per cent, this person's not involved in the murder of these children. I can't wait until to solve this thing, because I think that the the full story that comes out about the investigation in the way that they took this the directions that it's gone in, whether they took it that direction or the investigation lead.
in that direction. I think that it will end up being a very interesting story from that aspect of this case, and I think that, like just like, they have said We can't we can't tell you everything that we know one day we would like to sit down and do that anna, where I say that I d they, I have to show their hand, and I dont want them to an you question. Well, it's not working, it's not king, in the sense that we know that they have not arrested the killer. They ve not arrested the bridge. Guy he's not sitting there waiting to go to trial, but where it where, in fact it that same tactic may be working is day, may be crossing people off their list and the suspect pool is going to get shorter and shorter inch.
murder and smaller and smaller and smaller, so it may be working in some form in fashion. That's just not obvious to us. The make sure you join us back here in the garage tomorrow from part two until then be good behind and don't let it the.
Transcript generated on 2023-01-26.