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this week drinking you're, a good man, charlie brown ale, by santa cruz mountain brewing garage grade three and three Water bottle caps out of five you're, a good man Early brown ale is brood with roasted malls and english ale use for a nice crisp in classic finish in today's beer was to his by these friends of the garage right here? First up have a laura in pittsfield new hampshire from the big now two sarah acrid ohio. Next, the big cheers, it's to Joe harness from sweden. She would like to be on the parts unknown police force or first you're, going to have to frisk me. I would wear two pairs of gloves a big. We, like your Two, Sarah from Baltimore maryland and each year the clear and albuquerque new mexico and, last but certainly not least, we have julie in Cincinnati ohio. So thanks everybody for helping us out with this week's, be around

if you want to help us put some gas in the tank for next week's, be run, go to true I'm garage dat, cobb click on the donor, but be doubled. The boy. Are you in beer wrong? That's enough for the beers boys and girls gather around grab a chair grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime my mother worked at the campus lion is to grow my car and obvious access day or night, the camp

as picking up some very lovely young women. You know what we were talking about. This were driving around almost as often as not, If the guy that's going around doing this stuff and the second they started talking that they didn't realize it but they're getting a free ride. I couldn't touch that with a ten foot pole. I swear but it'd be telling me what all about this guy in there comparing notes speculate on what he looks like how he carries himself. Why he's doing this stuff telling me about it? It's getting easier to do. I was getting better at it. I was getting less detectable. I started flaunting that invisibility severing a human head, two of them at night in front of my mother's residence, with her at home, my neighbors at home. Upstairs their picture window open the curtains open eleven o'clock at night. The lights are on, all they have to do is walk by lookout and I've added. Why did you keep the heads, but you cut them off, and why did you keep something?

with childhood. I could put it on an incident. I mean my father chopping, the heads off of our two pet chickens and my mother, insisting that I eat them for dinner. You know that we could say it was something that simple. I don't think it was my dad heads out back with a hatchet. I got on my bike and I wrote I tried to stop it. I remember that I got on the bike rode around the block us crying. I haven't talked about that for a lotta years. I'm sure that may have implemented something that may have gotten something rolling but along fantasy lines, but it took a lot of years of development along those lines to really get off, but how you able to in one minute, have someone's head in your hand and very shortly

having through a fantasy, however, that would relate to that severed head and then five minutes later. I'd put that away and there'd be a knock on the door and I'd put it away and answer the door and the landlady would be there and we discussing discuss what reality her reality, not mine. Some people go crazy. At that point, I felt that it was one hell of a tweak to just flip out and not know where I was to be walking up the stairs with a camera bag that belonged to a young woman that had her severed head in it, walking up to my apartment past, a happy young about coming down the stairs nodded and smiled at me ass. They went by good evening there going out on a date or I'd love to be going

and I am aware of both of these realities and the distance between those two was so dramatic, so amazing so violent that really I can fulfil the wheels squeaking inside. That was really poland and imagine at that point. Some people break I didn't literally go insane. I didn't get asked the Edmund kemper was committed to the attested arrow state hospital for the criminally insane. He was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia. This was a unique situation, though we have young ed camper living at the state hospital, For the criminally insane keeping in mind, campers high iq now add in campers personality. He is of the type that flourishes in this environment. Think about it, he's the type that, if you put a minister,

The he's been rejected, his entire life. All he wants to do is feel like he fits in or not have to be in a situation of being rejected again this is not up to him to be, there he's required to be their considered. I most to be a model inmate, so he's granted privileges, and one of these privileges is that he is delivering test and test results too, from office to office so during the course of this time. When he's running these test in running the results of these tests from one office to another he's reading them he's perusing the files he's through the papers he's memorizing things, diagnosis, treatments desired, results all of this stuff. So later he would be able to manage

late. This system he's in there he's talking to a psychiatrist, he's talking to people studying him he's talking to people that are trying to treat him and he's he's able to give them answers. In response, that may not be truthful. That may be learned. Behaviors learned responses, he's in fact learning what they want to hear from him on. Do you believe that, at this age that Ed wanted to be ex himself. I dont know I don't know that he consider there to be something wrong. along with him in the sense that we would consider there to be something wrong with him. He considers there's that there's something wrong with him, because he rejected by everybody. That's been in his life

So he knows hey. There must be something wrong with me, because I've been rejected by all these people, but what we see is somebody that has killed two people, that's very different than what he sees right. He kind of sees himself more as a victim where we see some they couldn't cope couldn't handle whatever his environment was in. His reaction to such was killing two innocent people, regardless We will never know if he wanted to be fixed cared, everyone. I label it. We will never even wanted to receive treatment? We will never know the treatment, actually in fact worked when you're, given all the answers to attack, asked. How does anyone determine if you actually learned anything right? You know he's actually just memorizing what they want to hear from him, what they want his response to be, and at this time you and I kind of chatted yesterday a bit about well, he could have been a mass murder

at age fifteen, and then we probably would lock them up forever and that's the europe more likely right, then I am in that conversation that we had course will not. Of course, you we can't just brush the side so quickly. I met because those coming from me. Well, you you're not just right because you are who you are up. The thing is in this country at that time, late in the Sixtys, in that early seventies, especially in california, and look californians, don't get all upset with the colonel. I didn't do this. I wasn't, though I can't go back and change history, but what the history of it is is our country, not just in california, but especially in california, this country was was hell bent on the thought of rehabilitation. and at that time right, you know we talked on this show several times about. Why was there so many serial killer

in the seventies and eighties. Well, it has there so many factors that go into that. But some of that is the simple thought of this. We have at the time California gone, you know what you killed to people, we can fix it, Well, let's just talk: let's lock you for a little bit organ, and not only that we're going to surround by other people that we deem to be not only violent but criminally insane and your eye. few depending on who you talk to could be near genius level as high as one forty six we're gonna put you. An environment that you can learn from our doctors, which we want you to learn from our doctors right yeah, it's not going to be a basement, there's not me rats. We want you to learn from the treatment right guess what you don't want to six foot nine through hundred pound guy with an iq of hundred and forty six six to learn from the caribbean now that you ve, surrounded him with the adult criminals, the criminally insane people that you ve, surrounded him.

he's now, learning from them as well and the poor one that we had back in the late sixties was we were doing this with killers, and I hey. We because other states were doing it as well or still turn out some what we were doing it with ours and we were doing it with child molesters and people. That would would would re offend and we're like, oh well can fix it, and you know one big problem that this country has been a lot of countries had back then, was We didn't never have a good understanding of these people that were raping children. that time we were almost identifying. It is something to being egos homosexuality, which of course, now we're all educated smart enough to know that they have nothing

I do with one another, never have and never will and so back. Then we thought we could even cure something like that, would just throw back out on the streets and we would see or they thought they could cure. Homosexuality they'd have these they're still to this day, think they can and they have these church groups that you go out. You know all men church group that go out in the woods and and and they can pray away the gay well and, of course you know, we we've We discussed it on our show several times. You know even states like taxes, Florida, ohio, everybody was releasing. These views very dangerous individuals, and then you have somebody martyrs, Edmund temper and look. I am not blaming the system, especially in this specific instance, because we have a guy. There was hard enough to figure out a way to manipulate the system right. Okay, so we can't blame the system for being tricked yeah, but you know we need to take a look at some of the systems that we've had in place for years and and

some of that. Well, in that, that's what I think we ve learned throughout these last few decades is really how quote on quote: curable is Would somebody be that's already committed double homicide right? Maybe the method for releasing this individual is not to just have him check in once a week with somebody and go talk to him in the person cozier still fine Yeah cause he's fine until he's not rightly rhine until buying until he's the updating somebody, he was fine for me, ten years until we shot his grandmother in the back three times. Re ed camper is released to his mother's care, which is another horrible idea, the person that you too hates the mau stirring the talking yeah. You think they would have figured that out like out. We can't release him to the mother.

You know what I will say in the defense of those that were helping him with his treatment. At the time they did tell the state. You can't release him to his mother. Like you cut the dad, probably didn't want him, you could release this got yeah but see that's the problem when a lot of lot of states, and I know that varies from state to state, but from my understanding, California, I believe Ohio the same way. California, even as adult if you're like paroled, if they really show on parole the first thing before considering you for parole, they say Where you going to go to live. Well, you ve been in prison, you don't you don't you haven't had a job, you don't have any money, you don't have a residence. So You have to go live with somebody else. Somebody has garee to take you in at camper. Has nobody but mama a mama, probably in wanna, take him any either but right she does whatever reason and so These were least to her care

so now, he's on parole and he's like we said six foot nine, he weighs two uttered eighty pow heavyweight champion of the work well and he's released into a world that he just simply doesn't understand. You know he spent more than a quarter of his life locked up in with people older than him wanting out. He also says things like that. Like I, I couldn't even imagine what it'd be like to go talk to a female, it's kind of odd yeah. I mean like maybe at first like when you're ten, it's a little strange after that, it's like yeah. It might be frightening to people, but it's like if you find yourself in conversation like in the line at yeah, burger king to get a whopper or something you find yourself talking to a lady that it's not that strange to ninety eight percent of the men,

yeah I mean, but we have this, though too we have. The thought of you know, keep in mind the people his age in nineteen sixty nine california. They were free, spirited, california. They almost spoke a different language than camper and, as you said, he had no experience with with women, but I mean, as a young adult he had no experienced being out in the real world as a young adult. In this my issue with when there are always talking about almost genus level, I accuse, but not smart enough to figure out so much shit and life, but I dont know that he had the tools to be equipped to do so and regardless I mean I was thing about this. The other day you know let's say he's out and he's talking to a woman, his age rank, or older younger. Whatever does matter where'd you go to high school, I didn't go to, go because a shot. My grandparents and I've been locked up in a house hospital for the camp. Crimson

the insane right for the past five or six years, but also good patient? Now I helped that will not only easy out but, like we said, he's in his mother's care or living with his mother and once again he's experiencing her verbal abuse right now he did get his g d once he was out and he to be a police officer, but instead he landed at a job with the california division of highways. He saved his money and eventually just a yellow nineteen sixty nine ford galaxy vehicle. This is a tudor car So for two years at is working he's trying to adjust to civilian life trying to fit in he's. You know just out their living doing his thing. He's with his mother in santa in these santa cruz area, his mother now separated from her third husband. She,

working as a secretary at the newly open university of california, santa cruz add with his car, made a practice of picking up the beautiful young college, female students. were you know in the area looking for a ride looking to hitchhike, which was very common back then by what an wasn't this, because, since his mom worked at the school, he had some kind of school a delegation on his vehicle. Yet he had some kind of stick her. I don't know if it was for a parking purposes or just two be able to get on, and you know onto the campus area and drive around robot thou wouldst prize, so good form b, because if we, especially if you go to a small college, when you see that sticker on sundays car, you see that thing hanging from their mere and almost may issue like reassured that they're. Ok, this person's, ok, yeah, you identify with them and you probably would think

Maybe there are you know so looking to get into a car looking to hitchhike somewhere, you would be willing to get in his view. Seeing the sticker is the general thought now he drove a lot of young women around for a long time, and I actually believe captain that he thought that maybe this might lead to a date or some type of relationship because we have an individual that doesnt seem to have the means or the ability of meeting people very well, but hey, I do something nice. If I offer you a ride now our we're locked and loaded a right were sitting together. We're on a journey together, I'm gonna. Take you somewhere, I'm doing you a favor. We can strike up a conversation. Yes, he be charlie cool but when you pull up brought down your window in your

Diana hammock and you gone. Oh excuse me miss. Would you like a ride? I can give you a ride in my car while fairly quickly, I would guess this letting women into his car picking women up for hitchhiking purposes, probably very quickly. It came more about his violent sexual fantasies and, just like he learned in the hospital, he is now going to start to try some different tactics to see what works and what doesn't work. Okay, so you reference the sticker on his car. Probably helped him pick up some young women. He also said that he had a look like he had a specific style of, glasses it he would wear just when he wanted to pick up hitchhikers. He also had a move to that. He would do that when asked if he

to give them a ride. He would try to act like he was annoyed like he had somewhere to go like you know, looking at his watch and going oh, I guess I guess I can help you out that way to let their guard down that he's not so eager just to get this individual into his vehicle, but he says that he started taking. It's a bit further. Each time like he would start veering off of the natural route to where they wanted to go or start taking them to a secluded location where they didn't want to write so kind of the the thought process. Here's why I'm going to turn right instead of left here-

Let's see how they react, yeah yeah worst case scenario. They go. I know you're not supposed to turn right here and you could always play dumb arm. Sorry. I took the wrong path. Eventually, he takes us to the point of he starts to keep a gun in the car with him when he's picking up women. Yes, that way. So when they go, you should turn left and not right. He just pulls a gun out don't you tell me how to drive on may seventh nineteen. Seventy two camper was driving when he picked up to eighteen year old hitchhikers. These women were from the fresno state university. They were stewed this is Mary. Ann, patchy and anita lukashka after dry for an hour, he drove to a secluded wooded area need near alameda, which he was familiar with from his work at the highway department there. He intended to

the women, but while he was locked up, he learned from Cyril rapist to not leave witnesses. So here's an issue for him he's decided that he wants to rape. At least one of these women think about ed kemper. He six foot, nine, almost three hundred pounds he's easily identifiable so he decides hey. I learned from these guys, while I was locked up not to leave any witnesses if somebody's five foot, ten white guy brown hair- he's- probably you know you identify their individual to police and yet not find him. or home in on him. So quickly will say this guy was a giant. He wore glasses He drove a yellow vehicle.

Going to home in on him fairly quickly. Now so what he decided to do. Is he tied up the girl that he wanted to rape and he put anita lukashka in the trunk of the vehicle he attempted to re petty. However, he was unable to do so and when he couldn't get it up. He got angry with her. And he took it out on her any decides to stab marianne patchy right. Even though that we heard in the interview he claims that his stuff works well, he stabbed her too and eventually he realizes crap. I got this other person in the car. I can't just let her go now. She's in the trunk, she doesn't know what's happened, but I can't just let her go now, so he goes back to the the trunk. He lets her out.

a opens it up and tells her that hey she sees blood on his hands and he tell hey, your friend, got out of control got crazy with me. I had a puncture, I think I broke knows you're going to want to come check on her you're going to want to come. Make sure that she's, okay and as soon as she turns her back on him, he stabs her both of these these women and least one of em. He slipped their throat. We have, situation to wear afterwards. He kind of goes into an immediate panic. He closes. The trunk. He's now got one of the victims inside of there and he believes that he he can't find his keys. He starts to panic, that he locked his keys in the trunk of the car? And now he screwed he's got at least body in their at this point he might have had to because he did. He did ultimately transport, both of them with two of both of them being in the trunk

so he's panicking, he's thinking. Crap I've lock my keys in there with these two victims. He starts a panicky trips over his gun that he dropped on the ground, and he says that when he fell, this kind of brought him to lady cumnor had a moment of clarity there, realising that his keys were in fact in his back pocket. He never kept his keys in his back pocket. He says he finds him in the back: pocket picks up the gun that he had that are used to control the women anyway, and now he's going to drive, so he can dismember these bodies and dispose of them on the way to his destination. He gets pulled over for a tale. I he's got a busted tale. I toys a bus entirely now wonder if that was busted before for over got busted during the the tussle Then I don't know, that's that's that's interesting, but he did he's able to weasel his way. Out of you know the the officer doesn't searches vehicle, obviously, both

which not so he's able to make it back to his destination and I'm not going to go through all the details, but much like ted Bundy and other individuals that we've discussed before on the show at camper was a necrophilia back. Okay yeah. He couldn't have normal sexual relations or sexual intercourse with a living breathing woman. He liked to have sex with their heads you well and their bodies. Frankly, we don't need. I said we were not to go into detail thanks captain, so he was if you're feeling, sometimes it needs to be said, and he would member these bodies, so he could later disposal If you had the chance to be brought back to life hundreds of years in the future? Would you take it wonderingly?

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teeth. Nineteen. Seventy two camper picked up fifteen year. What korean dance student icu coup, family did not own a vehicle and she got permission from her mom to go to a dance competition. So she was to take the bust well after missing her bus, she hitchhiked camper offers her. Inside, so he drives to a remote area pulling a gun on cu before he accidentally locked himself out of his car. Ah, so you believe it, it will happen well cu, let him back inside the vehicle and then camper choked her unconscious raped her and killed her. But this is, after he pulled a gun on her. correct. He packed her body into the trunk of his car and went to a bar and had a few drinks. Then back at his apartment. He did all of the terrible things that we have already discussed earlier before dismembering indisposed.

Of the remains in a similar manner. Manner as his previous to victims is this: when he's goin to the bar that the cops like to go Two, I dont know what bar he went to that night. But, yes, there was a bar that he frequented called the jury room, and this was a bar that was. The regulars were pretty much law enforcement and he made a lot of friends. He would go he's every week we ve already said this from the interviews that they have of him online he's easy to talk to you talker and he would go in there and he would buy drinks for the officers they would buy drinks for him. They would sit around drinkin beers and, talking about you, know everything you know everything from the weather to these missing poets. Why talked so much he actually knew that he was kind of annoying, because how much he actually dark.

By I believe in one and the interviews he was stating that he knew just don't brain up. Any of these murders are any of these cases, because if you do, then you might become us. right and you know for a while with these three miss. Individuals. You know he knows it he's killed them, but for a while they were simply missing persons. Cases by you know they all three of them had disappeared. We have coups mother who she phones, the police, saying hey my daughter in show to this dance competition. She was supposed to take the boss, I've never seen or ever again she phones, policing in reports. Her daughter is missing so for a while they're, just simply missing persons cases eventually they're going to start finding the body parts of these different victims,

now in january. Of seventy three camper picked up cindy shawl and we would have the same result. You know she's never seen again and in february the following month he picks up roslin, thorpe and Allison Lou. So what we're seeing here captain is what we see often with these cereal offenders, were seeing an increase in the speed and the rate of the crimes. You know it's like you, Control is urge, is or fantasies well, and there is less of a cooling off period, so very quickly he's getting to the next victim. So to speak, so we talked about camper war special ass is that he thought made him. Look more like a college student made him look a little hip. You know he drove the vehicle. They he had. The campus sticker on the vehicle back camper regional hipster, and then he also had different things that he would do like. I said he would pretend to be

in a hurry. Looking at his watch when asked if he could give somebody a ride, the other move that he did, which is terrifying, and it's really well thought out, though, on his part is once he would get these hitchhikers into his vehicle. Think about his vehicle. It's a two door vehicle So if you're in the back you're already at a huge disadvantage, because the well idea that he has is he's going to drive you to a secluded area and then he's going to pull a gun on you. Well, if you have the ability to flee, that's your opportunity, you gotta get outta dodge as quick as possible if you're stuck in the back seat, you're going to have a difficult time getting out of that vehicle, also taken a count that he's six nine, so his wingspan has arms. reached the other door, the passenger door pretty easily. Well, that was one of his moves. So

he would only have a victim in the back seat of more than one hitchhiker got in at a time right in august, natural thing, is to ride shotgun, so what he would do is he reach over his passenger, and he would say all I dont think your doors all the way, and then he would open the door. You know using The little latch open up the door close it should in the same motion. He would drop a tube of chap stick down into the door, so what it creates. Is it it prevents you from using that latched to open the door. You couldn't he's not locking the door in front of you, which would be an obvious move, put making you uncomfortable right, he's unbeknownst to you, he's drop this tube of chaps dick down there. Now, if you go for the latch, it doesn't connect and you can't open the door from the inside of the vehicle right in and lock the doors now when you go to open them of their lock, though unlock automatically or whatever they do. But this is back in the day,

but it wasn't at bondi that just didn't have a handle. Yet he been, he did all kinds of things remember he actually had and he he altered the seats in his vehicle in some form too. I remember he had em like it. He took the screws out of himself. He needed to just push a chair back we're hide it. He could break in seventy three that attack in February. With on the two young women. He actually by this point, he's in a bit of a lindsey, because remember we talked about with his first victims as an adult he drives out into the middle of nowhere a bit of interaction between these victim in killer, leading up to the killing right with his last victims, I I personally think he's in a bit of a frenzy, because he does

you bother to get them very far away from where he picks them up, and he shoots both of them. He talks about how, after the killing this paranoia of that that he's going to be caught right away, that everybody's coming to get him. I wonder if that started setting in right when he picked up the victim. I think that he had developed what he he likes to do to the victims, and he wanted to get to that as quick as he got, and why I mean by that, as we said earlier, is where he can't he can't have normal intercourse or sexual relations or or normal relationships with people. The way that normal people can rights who wants to get straight to having sex with their heads or where he wants to get straight to the necrophilia as soon as possible, because you know he can create hope nobody to eat in there. Yeah, but he can create and make up all these reasons. Why? Who? He is you know it

we turned out in what are why he does what he does. Well, that's because, one time when his when he was eight years old, his dad but in the end the reality is. This is his. This is his sexual fantasy right and it's now. How can I get to that as soon as possible? That's what's tough about some. The interviews for me is: can we learn something to possibly see this early early signs in a child and maybe stop this behaviour from happening or, as some of this just complete bull shit to justify Their fantasy their sexual fantasies. Well, I think it's a way to rationalize it right. You know either for themselves or for everybody else, to understand that this is why they did what they did, but and this situation he shoots, bow

of these young women? He actually gets pulled over with them in the vehicle. I mean he's, not move them to the trunk of the vehicle he gets pulled over and he he who had wrapped both of them up to the neck area in a blank and they were both kind of just like you know, their heads, leaning against the door and the other victims. Leaning against advocate, if that makes sense, now her book there, both one sleeping on the other gotcha. Yes, when he gets pulled over, he tells the officer that both of these women are drunk and he's were too them whole they actually returning them to his home, but he doesn't tell the officer that right and the officer billy someone. He goes on about his work, and we ve seen this with several several different serial killers. The in these moments. Some of them are able to not panic, not freak out in just kind of offer up an explanation, What's going on

sent along their way we saw with Bundy. You know we saw it with a bt k, but it wasn't necessarily an officer was I I think it was another scout leader or somebody that was a dahmer yeah dom yes, Dahmer did almost this exact same thing, while for years he's had hatred towards his mother, now he's going to turn that again, her and not these coeds year at some point, camper finally realise that his ultimate fantasy was killing his mother now is difficult say how long he planned such an act, it's likely months or at the very least, probably every time that they got into an argument, because you have heard in the interviews he will off and reference the him in his mom. We got to a bad argument on this night and then I went out driving around right and so We do know from these interviews, though, that he was at least actively seriously planning to kill him.

for about a week or so before. You finally did. This was two days before easter sunday, on good friday, nineteen, seventy three camper decided to kill his other he battered her with a hammer stabbed her with a knife and he cut off her head and, of course he did all of the other things that we have already discussed the he did with the other bodies, and then we have Sally how it this was his mother's best friend. He once he called Off he calls or up and invite her over to dinner. She shows up expecting to have dinner with ed camper and his mother and as soon as she enters the place, he gets behind her this giant and he basically picks her up with his arms in east. He strangling her in mid air and she dies pretty quickly. Many people have suggested captain the given his homicidal obsession with his mother. The we are supposed to,

think that may be killing his mother like exercised the demons, the tormented add throughout his life, because this would kind to be the end of his killing spree. Well, let's stay on this murder. First, second because didn't. He also say that she went out with a friend and she was drinking and then she came home and I he like pass by her room or something, and she made like some snarky comment like she always does. Right, though, suppose you want to stay up all night talking now yeah now. Is it true or false cause? I know and look at your bright mean you don't want to you're, not one for the gory details, but is this a part of mine hunter or was this actually what happened cause he claims and mine hunter that he took her life

next yeah him and put it in the garbage disposal. There are many different versions of that same story, so I believe, there's gotta be some truth to it and if you want to take it to the most extreme, he says something to the appoint into well the way the story goes anyway. I couldn't find his exact words on this right mind you there's like hundreds and hundreds of hours of of interviews with ed. So can you please said in his voice? I I don't. I don't think I could do it. You're, not you're, not grieve and fry. I dont think, though they, I think the listeners,

like to hear you try your best. You and ethical listeners would like to hear you try but see that's how cameron bless how cameron Britton tie now. That's not how edmund Kemper, that's still hey. That's still at camper impersonation, now, yeah he's he's he's got the character spot on in the sense that eds very matter of fact meant matter of fact. You know he just kind of says what he did. He has the look in his eyes. The look in his eyes are very similar to ads. Yes, they are there. There one hundred percent. So it lets take this story to the most extreme that I've ever heard in the most extreme version of the story is that after killing his mother, he couldn't silent her voice that she was still nagging and bitching at him, even in death. So he did, he decided remove her lennox and her tongue and throw it down the guard just spousal and when he turned on the garbage disposal pieces

that or the whole thing came back out at him to which later he told law enforcement. Is it made sense to him, because he wasn't able to silence her that even in death, she was going to continue to nag him and she was going to get the last word right. But when we listen, to add talk the way that he would let us know what was going on inside of him is he throws out there The suggestion that had I just killed mother, for everybody else. I would have killed anybody else then I have to wonder: is this the absolute truth? Because the reality. Is he killed his mother and then shortly afterwards he killed her best friend. He didn't stop with his mother bright. He had the opportunity to but you and I were just talking about willpower while we win,

no one's own. Will you could argue, there's evidence against your theory ed. He would call he ended up, calling the police, so he drove to colorado. He left a note. This takes you back, though he calls from a phone booth right, yeah. and he left a note at his mother's home. Saying hey. You know, I'm sorry about the net mess boys I had to leave. I got things to do. He thought the again that paranoia sets and where he thought. All? The sun everybody's want to know what he did and as driving the colorado he kept it expecting to hear this story on the news. You know breaking news. We found two dead bodies at this home and no he never hears that so eventually he decides he's gonna stop. He calls santa cruz police from colorado. and he says, look come and get me before. I do it all over again and the police,

initially refused to believe him. You know this is the guy that they drank with at the bar right. It took several follow up calls For them to believe that he had done what he said he had done, and they they even him information that only the kohen killer would know so camper. Finally, convince the police, He was the man that they were looking for and he was quickly arrested without incident and charged with eight murders in the first degree I do want to point something out here. That's that's not often discussed when Ed camper is discussed. Is there were there were more difficulty in this case, then, They were then looking back. Many of us would know of it now, there was another act of zero killer in that exact area. At that exact same time as admin camper, which created big problem in the investigation, so we had herbert molin. He was kind of killing people at random. You know where,

we have camper, who has a very distinct picked homology right. The problem was that at that I'm investigators believe that all of these murders were likely connected and therefore made the IMF establishing a real pattern, it made a very difficult, because there was no real pattern. You have one guy killing at random. While then you have two things also going against. You have a guy confessing and if any more crimes happened, why he's? In jail, then you go wait while then disguise falsely confessing, but then he's also can only confessing to some of the murdered. So you run will. Why is he only confessing to some of not all of them and here's. One thing that I am shocked of this is a great idea for anybody out there. That has time to do it, I'm a little surprise there wasn't there's not a movie or a book based around this whole idea of two

working in the same area. At the same time, what was that movie? I kissed the girls or something force got where their operating on different sides of the country. These two serial killers, you have a unique situation where two are operating in the same area and their basically there sapper apprehended roughly about the same time, so their active for about the same periods of time. Now we know that camper beheaded several of his victims. He would eventually tell his attorney that he had eaten the flash of at least one of them, so at his trial. He did testify in during his trial. He said that the slayings were his way of acting out homicidal,

cannibalistic in sexual fantasies, that dated back to his childhood, stating that that was the only way they could be mine. Referring to his victims, camper said I had their spirits and I still have them. Camper was found guilty and sentenced to life imprisonment for the eight murders, because there was a stay on the death penalty, in the u s at the time of his conviction, santa cruz county superior court. Harry brower said at the time camper you not be released from prison during your natural life, edmund camper, remain how's among the general prison population at the california met. oh facility and back of ill california. Ultimately John Douglas believes that these types agreed walk with the fbi for a number of reasons, but with camper douglas believes, he cooperated because he was somewhat bothered by his crimes, and this was a way to make some sort of a man

and and talking about his crimes also allows camper to better understand himself. Douglas also says that he believes camper was made to be evil rather than born to be evil, but he also throws in their hey. We have to keep in mind if individual was raised in a happy environment not abusive environment by different people write. He says I can't you It's either he wouldn't grow up to end up killing people yeah. I I look. I respect john, but I also think when you almost become friends with a individual like this, I think that your viewpoints are going to be skewed a little bit yeah. I can. with that. I think the camper makes it difficult to remain unbiased and the situation Yes, he is easy to talk to. You have douglas in his own words and bob ressler in their his words as well, stating that

You know they found him to be friendly, easy to talk too easy going and even had a good sense of humour to the point where they talk with him for hours and will have to remind themselves hey this guy's a disguise. A real monster he's a killer one. There are also talking to other monsters that aren't being as cooperative guys that are probably just completely lying to him, not given him any correct information. So therefore, it's lake here once again, Ed kemper, is the star student there's a little recommended reading before we get out of here today this week were right. Mending the allure of premeditated murder. Why some people plan to kill by jack eleven and jolly wised as violence remains such a prominent

troubling topic nation, wide. The alert a premeditated murder successfully explores the rest. behind the worst violence, as well as the most promising solutions, and if we're interested in any of our recommended reading. You can check that out by going to our website true crime, gorazde com and check out the wreck. did page for all of our old episodes check us out on the stitched up. It's free and check out off the record on your premium. Alright until next week be good.

Be kind and don't let.