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this it is true, primed iraq, and this is the case, but the boys on the travellers. bye

accounts. The engineer did a masterful job of bringing his train to stop. It had taken a screaming screeching half mile by the time the engine had shuddered to a standstill. Jerry Tomlin was on the radio notifying in approaching train on a parallel trap. To stop because some boys had been run over. He had also called the dispatcher. Have you got injuries the dispatcher ass, no tomlin said

We ve got down, I'm sure we ve got death, they passed under us. It has to be deaf asked me for I am august, twenty third nineteen, eighty seven, this is a sunday in arkansas, theirs, train travelling north from texarkana, this train, about a mile long pulling mostly freight, but some empty cars as well. The trains headlight is set to the bright position. The crew would later say that it was particularly dark that night the trains engineer. This is stephen shorter and the conductor, jerry tomlin notice, a dark spot on the track.

Now. Any debris on the tracks, of course, is a big concern. They can see a flash of light from this dark spot. The trains headlights b, It must have hit something met or something that reflected the light back to them. When the train was approximately a hundred feet away from the dark side engineer, shore yelled out o my god, and he hit the whistle the emergency brake at the same time. This is because they could tell them we're two young men lying on the tracks between the rails. They could so tell that there was a gun lying next to them. They could tell that there was something offering the boys from their waste to their knees. Both boys were between the rails with their heads up against the west rail and their feet over the east. Rail both were right beside each other in their arms and hands were at their side it's their heads facing straight up and they didn't move at all. The train was travel.

Approximately fifty five miles an hour. This would only give the crew just seconds to respond before running over the boys. As we had said, they hit the emergency brake with the way in the speed of the train. This is going to take some time to bring this metal monster to stop. As you're breaking the steel wheels or see their screaming on the steel tracks, the train cars vibrate, the tracks begin to vibrate as well, the whistle blowing and still the boys do not jerk Do not flinch. They do not move a muscle. Now show your couldn't tell what the object was. Was covering the boys, but the other two men on the train tomlin end this other guy. His last name is della more both said that this item that was cut the boys from waste to knee was a tarp, a pie, a pale green tarp. I believe one of the men actually said that it looked like a boat cover in they stated that gone was clearly a rifle the barrel.

Was near. One of the boys is head and the stock was mostly underneath the tarp the men walked. As the bodies disappeared under the train, the men heard the train hit the boys. One of the men explain that what he was used to on occasion, the train would hit a dog and he said that you would here like a thud and then you would hear rocks flying because, if with something that was under the train than the train Scooting, the object, along with the boys, with the gun. The men felt the impact and they said it was very one two three you can. You can feel the hit of the first boys second boy and then the gun, it's hard to imagine was going through these guys heads as their hitting the bodies gods. I mean complete nightmare.

when the train, hits and object, one of two things usually happen. So there is a scoop on the front of this train that the men called a cow catcher. I believe this is a commonly used term, so either the cow catcher will hit the item and tossed the object violently aside or get sucked up under the train right- and this is what happened here and the two boys is legs- word lay on the track. So what happened? Was the feet were actually severed by the train? Yes severed from the legs in the heads in the torso

were, between the tracks of the train, would have cleared the bodies and then rolled them under the train. This is what the three men on board had heard. So armed with flashlights the men get off the train and they went looking for what they had hit about thirty five cars back. They located the first of many pieces that they would find right, train cars, yet they stay spotted. Some dismember toes the biggest body part that they found was the chest and head of the second boy. The first boy was, he was much more chopped up. The police had started to arrive on the scene and they basically fat

parts of the gun and the body scattered along a quarter mile of the tracks. One thing the crew members noticed very quickly was that there was a lot less blood than any of them had expected to see and the blood that they did see and find it was dark. It wasn't, it wasn't read, it was a purplish and color. Unlike you said they have expired. and with you now hit the train. The train, hitting a dog more a cow where a deer or something of that nature yeah in This area of the country to these are guys it were familiar with hunting.

So they they knew kind of what to expect. Unfortunately, in this situation, that's why they were so freaked out was they knew what they were expecting to see and they were terrified going back there looking for that war, yet because it's on a whole different level, I mean it's one thing: to hit a deer, but to hit two teenage boys, the police were there at four forty a m. This is just about thirteen minutes after the crew had reported the student. This fell to the jurisdiction of the salient county sheriff's office on the scene. We have deputy, chuck talent and lieutenant re rich men who was the head of the departments, criminal investigation division after checking out the scene, the officer decided that they were investigating either an accident or suicide. The crew working Train immediately disagreed with the officers. They knew that, of course, accidents certain. You happened around trains?

and suicides do as well. But the troubling thing here is that the men's all neither boy move at all pray if, if it were a suicide, They said they might be able to be talked into green that one person could brave through the terrifying situation of the train, approaching them None of the men would agree that two people could stay there and not flinch or not move a muscle, as the train got closer and closer right, which I I think I agree with them on. Ah, I just think that's a really hard thing to even speculate. Also at the scene was state troopers. wayne lane heart of the arkansas state police, now lane heart was concerned by what he saw at the scene. But let's keep in mind he. This is not his jurisdiction right. This is the jurisdiction of the sheriff's office, so he is their mercy. So, assuming that it was at the call was

aid, and he was just in close proximity, so he then showed up to see if they need any assistance. Yeah everybody was responding to this call. So this is not his case. He is pretty much justice. Tater at this point, but the thing that bothered him the most was the sheriff deputies disinterest in the possibility of a murder According to lean arts training, any unnatural death should be investigated first, as a possible homicide, so evidence can be preserved in the most Serious possibilities eliminated before less serious ones are considered. Lane are after having talked with the crew members, told the deputies that he doubted the debts were an accident write. Another cause for concern was the observations made by the emergency emit medical technicians arriving on the scene, ride the empties yeah

they both said that the bodies of looked more like man against, because there was so little blood and at their impact, cite the blood that they found was really dark and more a purple than a red. They didn't see any bright blood and this led them to believe that the blood that they were seen was not fresh. Who were the two boys on the tracks? at night and why were they there? The boys seventeen year old, Kevin ives in sixteen year old dawn henry, and I know it's nineteen, eighty seven and there was a lot of law enforcement dinner crackdown on curfew has often, but what is sixteen and seventeen year old boy doing out by these train tracks? I mean it's saturday they there. and out saturday, and then this happens at four a m on sunday. Yet so it was the weekend Well, this is a rural area.

so you don't see curfews really enforced a whole lot out in these parts. Basically, the boys were staying the night at dawn, henrys home and they they got their around twelve fifteen. A m dawn lives with his parents. Courtesan stepmother marvel henry, now the two were supposed to be staying the night at dance house they had on each other about six months. They become quick, friends hang altogether. Very often this was the summertime. During the start of another school year, so they were. You know the two of them were trying to make the most of their summer. What what they had left right Kevin had stayed at don's place once or twice before, but Kevin's. Mother Linda was not real excited about kevin staying. that night in fact sheets really said no to the request, because last time he had stayed there. She didn't approve of what went down

on that occasion. Dawns father had called Linda the morning after and asked if the boys were at her house right and she says she's. No, you know they they were supposed to be at replace? I don't. I don't know what happened here right, why they did us which rule well. but what it turns out that what happened was that, at some point, dawn had got an argument with his father Curtis and then did after the argument. The two boys went and decided to stay at another friends house that night, so Curtis may be thought that they went back to Kevin's and it turns out that that was not not because very embarrassing when you have a friend over and you get an argument with your parents- that's sake? You like I'm, really sorry that my mom's being a big old, be right now. Well, I'm sure Kevin's parents would have wished that they would have returned to their place rather than just someone else here. The sun scripted place that they ended up so of

worse. Linda was reluctant to let Kevin go over there on this occasion, but you know how it goes. Teenagers talk their parents into things, So on that night the two had been hanging out with some friends they were told to behold by midnight or twelve thirty at the latest. So once they were back, it dawns place, they had asked on father Curtis if they could go out hunting. This is spot lighting, which is any legal form of hunting plus. I wouldn't think that anything would be in season at that time of year now dawn was in abbott hunter. So he was. You know this activity sounds a bit strange to me, but I get the impression that this could have been a common thing here for him plus it doesn't sound to me as if Don's parents, or at least on father Curtis, was the strictest of parents. Write us one. Some people remember what their childhood was like when

when its summer time and that they think you know some parents could allow more loose in the summer time. I think that's ok! Well, I used to be, you know, have to be in by a certain time, but in the summer time a lot of times my parents would let me pitch a tent in the back yard. You don't have somebody stay over, so really wasn't totally under their watchful eye, but spock lighting is where you go out with flashlights and a gun, and when you, across some unfortunate animal, and I dont know what they were hunting for our maybe if they were just looking for any type of creature out there. But basically you you shine your foot ass, light on the animal and the light be more pretty much lock up the animal like the old saying, frees up like a deer, and they headlights well This makes the animal very easy target, so they asked Curtis if they can go out spot lighting, and he says yes, and that is the last time that boys are known to be seen alive. Yeah last time

that, their known to be seen alive by any parents or close family members. This story, which has not been covered, often as so many twist and friends- and I dare say, maybe one of the most interesting cases, most fascinating cases with as many twists that you will ever hear in a case yeah it it it's crazy. It starts off as a small town case, and it could be, I mean it could be. Huh chocolate starts out as a as a small town case that people think it's an accident or suicide. The next morning Curtis the father he gets up around five am and he wakes up his wife marvel saying that that don should have been home by now. But wasn't and he tells her that he really thinks that something is wrong. Here. Curtis goes out looking for the boys, he knew where the boys were going to go hunt. So he headed to the woods near the train, tracks

he's out driving around looking for dawning cabin and while he's out there, he passes a deputy and he slows down any stops. Any ask the deputy if they had seen two teenagers out their running round the debt, he asked who the man was looking for an curtis knowing that the boys were hunting illegally. He decided that he didn't want to name any names right. You know, so Curtis is going to continue on looking for the boys. The officer also didn't say that they had found two boys on the train. Tracks were when Curtis had stopped to talk to ray after driving around for a few hours. Curtis went home and he called linda, and he asked her if the boys were at her place and of course now she's thinking. Oh no, not again. This happened last time and why the hell can't this other parent keep the

Kids at his house ray. Ah, she asked if there was an argument, or he says no. There was nothing like that that the boys had simply went out hunting and they must have stayed out all night. He told Linda not to worry, because don had hunted, often it's very responsible with a firearm and he knew the woods better than anyone. Linda was beginning to get quite worried about Kevin. The one like we said was sixteen and seventeen year old and you have your little stomping grounds, so it seems like Don juan don stomping grounds. Was these woods and you know, and and back when I was a probably you know elementary school and middle school. There was woods by my house and if you took it, you know if apparent came back looking for it kid they couldn't find their way around bright, but but the kids knew how to get through every inch of that woods around noon. The phone rang again and it was curse linda- could tell by his voice that this call was made

different than the last call he says get over here, quick, they ve been shot and tied to the railroad tracks and they ve been run over by the train. Now this it might sound a little weird here but linda of course, she she's in shock by what she has just heard, yeah, obviously, but she she says that she was actually somewhat relieved once she had a chance to kind of process. What Curtis had said Linda was worried that the boys I have been in a car wreck. You know that they were both young drivers at this time. They both own fast cars dawn, had a fire. Bird and Kevin had a camaro, my shining, eighty seven but yeah, but she said what Curtis had told her sounded so absurd that it couldn't have possibly happen that it couldn't be.

troops, rightly so, Linda, drives over to Curtis Curtis Henry's home when she pulled up to the place she sees Kevin's car at the end of the driveway, and this makes her feel very good. She's immediately thinking that Kevin had returned the henry's and nobody was in a car wreck and you know all as good again right? Well maybe something happened, and maybe they were on these tracks, but there, okay, now, while that feeling quickly left her ass she's getting out of the car a deputy. This is deputy. Talent came out from the house and he asked her to come inside. So we go here from from a lotta relief to very worried. Curtis right in front of the officer tells Linda that a neighbor had told him that the boys had been shot. They have been tied the tracks and they ve been run over by the train. Now the police officer, he states that the boys- yes there there had been

two boys that had been run over by a train. Now these boys had not been positively identified yet and they were going to be checking dental records at the crime lab to figure out who these boys were by. But you have no whereabouts of your two of these two teenage boys. They no that they went out at night. You know What area there? When you know they went in the woods down by the train tracks right and you now

They did. It come home and their vehicles are at your house. So this is this very troublesome. While deputy talent, he ask linda for a description of what Kevin was wearing the last time that she had seen him. She describes this and he does say that that fit with the items that they had found at the tracks. What led the officers to Curtis Henry's door? They had found a camouflage baseball cap with they with a little rock electric logo on it. This is it the electric company in the area brain now, Curtis was a superintendent with that company and dawn head had one of those acts dawn wanted to become an electrician, just like his father after graduating from high school and that summer he had actually kind of taken don under his wing a little bit and would bring him into work with them, and you no kind of

show him the ropes a little bit to see if this was something he actually wanted to do after graduating high school. So unfortunately, this is a. This is a hat that he knew that don would have been wearing that night right. So the writing is pretty much on the wall. Yeah and unfortunately, the boys would soon later be positively identified as the two boys who had been run over by the train, that night right that being done henry and Kevin ives, now. There are still plenty of more weird things about that night that we haven't even got two yet. The first strange thing here is remember that, at the beginning of the show we had said that the trains conductor had called another train that was passing

a parallel track and he called them telling them to stop because they had just run over some boys. Well, once the officers had arrived and they began scoping out the scene, the sheriffs told the other train that it could then continue on. While this is before collecting some of the remains or looking for potential evidence of a crime here right, you know nothing stirs up a crime scene area like a giant train passing through re next, the crew had said that they- and this is all three of the crew members. They all got

same feeling that the sheriff's office, the the officers that were on the scene, they said that they didn't even believe that any of them were looking for any clues as to what had happened first off. They were obviously looking at this thing like it was an accident or a double suicide, and not only that, but officers were overheard being told hate treat this as a traffic accident, yeah anna and I'm guessing that this might have been. The extent of their expertise. You know they were probably all familiar with traffic fatalities, but not very familiar with you know. A potential double double murder scene, where improbable not a scene as complicated as this one. This next bit is is extremely strange of my mind regarding the sheriffs at night, It's like they were trying to pull the old gent. I mind trick on the train crew. After listening to each of the crew members statements, the deputy and the lieutenant told the

crew members that they had all been mistaken, that there was no tarp covering the boys do or do not. There is no try yeah they they. They simply told the guys that they were confused by how dark it had been that night and that there was simply no tarp and the next thing that the sheriffs did was confusing to as well, because they also seem to doubt the men statements that there was a gun present with the boys and we know from Curtis from dawns father that there were out there to hunt result, makes a lot of sense that there be a gun beside the boys right right and we- and we know that, but but the officer. At the scene. They don't know any of that information yet, but its very strange captain. Why would they, when you take the train crew statements, and you'd then you're going to go out and look at the scene in unfortunately, have this terrible job of collecting things there

Why would you have any reason to doubt them without walking the senior? Why? Why would you even say that there was no tarp? Why would you say that there is no god I don't even know why he would even question that when you just take their statements and not even make any observations of your own until you ve walked the scene, one as your walk in Maybe there does have a hard time finding these items. What so, therefore, why I can't find it Maybe you are mistaken. I mean I don't think all that stuff is no fear neo nefarious. I think some of it is just simply, but maybe you know it was super dark. You have this bright light coming from your train, and maybe you didn't see exactly what you think you saw. I can agree with that. I can agree with that train is travelling very fast. It's very dark out that night. These men are train, though, to spot things on the tracks that one thing that they do. You know why, but

what a law enforcement should do is just take the statement and if the statement is a little off, that's ok, that is the statement from that individual, not a statement that you guys made in a joint effort right right, and don't react to those statements until you have an opportunity to check out the scene and collect evidence to you know cause they're, probably walking in their thinking. This was an accident or this was a suicide. It's the only things that seem to make sense here, but it's it's. You're that they have this kind of preconceived notions before even really collecting evidence yet. But we see this time and time again with law enforcement, it's you create a narrative and then you make that evidence fate. Your narrative and said o k in the evidence and collecting statements in london that create your narrative, yeah While their walking the scene with the crew members, they even state several times

You know where. So, where is this alleged gun where, whereas the so called gun that you guys all we have laws? force meant creating a narrative, now I need to do autopsy on this bodies to actually figure out. You know that's going to point us in a direction too, and this is where the first twist in this story takes place we'll get to that right after this quick beer break If you had the chance to be brought back to life hundreds of years in the future, would you take it? Wonderings newest outcast frozen head hosting, ashen alina of the hit show morbid, tells the true story of lawrence pilgrim, a lifelong scientist who plan for death his entire life because for him death wasn't the end. It was just the beginning

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you have our top sees that we need to get to, but I will quickly. I wanna go through a couple more things about that night. Before we get to those are top seas. We talked about the gun. You know that the the officers refuse to believe the crew statement that there was a gun president, the present that they had seen. One ran like we said before: Curtis Henry downhill his father said they went out hunting and while they are searching the crime scene, they start referring to this gun as the alleged gun or the so called gun. It was not until the sheriff's office had actually recovered pieces of a shattered twenty two rifle with that. They would believe that there was even a gun present right, so they did recover shattered pieces of a twenty two rifle

there. There were no bullets in it. At the time there was no tarp found. I could see a tarp just getting ripped to shreds. You know if it's covering the boys or possibly, but you also have the other train that does they let go, and I can t see it a tart being trapped in two, my train somehow yet never gets pulled along exactly right in and not only that they're, not even looking for tarp their refusing to believe that make it exists. Right, but so, as they were collecting evidence they they they weren't. Looking for these things- and these things were scattered for about a quarter mile of track- and there was also other items that were found left at the track as well, so the boys were the train. Didn't took place on a sunday while Monday morning comes, and the deaths are up it is in the news and in the papers, so people start going down to the tracks to check out the scene.

One group that went down there. They found- and I like to call those people whiskers whiskers, sir curious, like a cat. Well, these people be careful what you wish for. They went down to the track this one group and they found a severed foot in the gravel. was missed by the sheriffs depart right. So you don't believe that there is a gun. You don't believe that there is a tarp yeah, fine evidence of that. And then you'd leave a foot behind yeah right I mean and, like we said some of the police officers that were at the scene at the time said. Look you have to assume that this is a homicide scene and you need to do your due diligence. So therefore, we can get some answers and this is direct evidence to point that they said. While this is a suicide,

accident case shut? Well, in fact it becomes. It became well no knowledge that the sheriffs investigators never even roped off the scene and some other people recovered parts of the gun. From that, seeing that the sheriff's office had missed well, congratulations when they were turned dawns, clothing to the henry's. His step mother found a small bag of pot in his power it. So the officers had missed this entirely and two days after the boys is death. The sheriffs they they For a statement saying, hey, we haven't ruled out anything except for foul play. We ruled that out.

yeah in review of the investigation. It was learned that the sheriff's office spent about a week on the investigation. This mostly consisted of interviews with friends and classmates of the two boys. Most of these interviews contained the same two questions. Well heck. Most of these interviews only consisted of two questions: one: how much drugs did the boys use and two were they suicidal right, and this is what makes me go bonkers, man yeah it's it's again like we said they aren't. They have a theory then they're trying to create the narrative- and we see this time and time again- it's it's does its utter malarkey yeah, unusually, even in an accidental death, when they are an investor when their investigating it, they will typically ask friends and relatives well: do you know anybody that would have wanted to hurt this person right or why

and you know- and this is not even a question that is posed to most of these people right by your asking people- the same question: are they suicidal how much drugs did they use? and then it creates the story amongst the people that, while that must be what happened here right and then and then obviously think about the family, it. Why would you do Why would you tell your parents? Why, one? Why would you spend the night with anybody and then why would you decide to oh well, let's just go hunting and I listed now. Let's just lay down on the tracks and again, like you said, you'd have to have, I mean you'd have to have was nerves of steel man to lay there on that track and let that happen. Well, this story, obviously very quickly became bigtime news all across the state of art and saw not only was the story, a parents worst nightmare, but it was a strange and horrible story all at the same time. Of course the rumour mill ran wild and there were.

a lot of theories regarding the deaths being traded dinner tables, dinners at local bars, and you know all over the state of arkansas one of the things I find a low creepy, this in our long time listeners, but no, we we covered the phantom killer, also known as the texts are canna murders and and having the train come from. Texarkana adds a little bit to creep factor. For me. The sheriff's office officially seem to be describing the deaths as an apparent accident, but would not give it that official title yet stating that the official cause of death would have to come from the state medical exam his office. Unfortunately, when the deputies were speaking with the families, they suggested that suicide was a more likely. Explanation can come up with their own narrative, while in both sets of parents disagreed with this thought from the beginning,

Did you know there was no evidence that the boys were suicidal, There was some evidence the boys had been using drugs want. Point: nine grams of marijuana was found in the pocket of Kevin's genes right in not always, as there are signs of somebody struggling with. You know, suicidal thoughts. Here's another strange saying to the story, though kept That is often not reported. Kevin's father larry ives. He was an engine, here for the railroad, the route that the train was on, that passed over the boys that route just months before it was his route, and it was just pure coincidence. Did that route was no longer Larry's or he would

driving the train that I write. So he would have me he would been engineering the train that, basically, you know, ran over his own son. The parents obviously were devastated by the tragedy, but they were also disappointed in the sheriff's office and how they handled this incident. They were anxiously awaiting the medical examiners ruling on the cause of deaths, and they wanted answers? Obviously, a week after the funerals, the medical examiner had finished his report in a meeting with the parents was

Actually, when the parents arrived, they were first met in the parking lot by officers from the sheriff's office. There was also an officer from the arkansas state police there as well. This was really good news to the parents, as they had been requesting multiple times in the short time period that the case be transferred to the state police, but they had not been done care. Kevin's parents brought a potential useful item with them. harry, and some of his friends went to the site where the boys had died when when they were there, they found a large piece of cardboard. The peace large enough that it could have been used to drag two bodies on it. was also a stain on it and that spain could have been blood right leg We knew that the sheriff's office didn't have the technology or the capability to properly analyze it. So he wanted to

bring it directly to the medical examiners office in the parking lot. He showed the piece of cardboard to the state police officer, and he turns it over to him. There we have a sixteen seventeen year old and obviously there does tina yours, but their becoming young man, and you know you have a lot of growth spurts at those times toward talking about two big individuals that you know very possible. There was foul play that they were. There were attacked on the train tracks because we know that's where there are at, but if there were attacked somewhere else and they use this piece it, cardboard, anybody that knows it's like a sled pusher, something like in weightlifting. Now you can put on a ton of weight, but because it's on a on a different surface, you can drag that surface. You know I mean most

people can't pick up a couch, but people can push it around their living room, hmm yeah and unfortunately, this possible piece of evidence, and it's not seen again after the situation. He, the father, gives it to the state officer and he's told that it's going to get where it needs to go to be examined, and that just simply doesn't happen right and again that the my issue is you'd have to test this to one final: if it was blood, if there was blood, then we can assume that this was used to maybe transport the bodies, but here's the other thing about it. This is the thing that frustrates me as whoever used. If that was used to transport the bodies, then there's a good likelihood that there was fingerprints on their right rent and that's what frustrates me when the parents went inside to meet the medical examiner? This is

Ami malik is his name, they work and his face looks exactly like the way. His name sounds: ok, but Fahmy. Well, that his face is very Fahmy. When the parents first met malik, they found him to be weird when they first, right, mallet took polaroid pictures of each parent and had asked each of them to sign forms so was official as to who was in attendance at this meeting are they run say he took pick Also, he took polaroid pictures of him. Then he asked him to shake it like a polaroid picture Malik then passed out copies of his official ruling. The statement read something like this: at four twenty five, a m august, twenty third nineteen, eighty, seven Kevin ives, seventeen and don Henry sixteen were unconscious in a deep sleep on the railroad tracks under the psychedelic influence of thc marijuana right when a train passed over them causing their access

and told deaths. The parents began questioning doktor malik, not really his ruling, but they wanted more information because none of them had ever heard of people passing out from th see according to the parents, Malik seemed very irritated at the additional questions I think that he thought that they would simply here is final ruling, accept it and then leave. This is very surprising to me that he would not have expected questions or that he would have seemed irritated at the additional actions given his amount of experience in these matters, you know now handles a sudden. Death well and loved ones are always left with a lot of questions when someone suddenly dies, especially if it's your kids especially if the circumstances surrounding those deaths or abnormal this guy has the. Bedside manner of a wolverine. He basically states marijuana levels in the boys were extremely high. Draw, being a line on a trough board, he writes a large

five below the line and a one hundred above it point to the one hundred he says this is stone? They were well, you know old captain foamy over here. I think part of his annoyance is that no he's an expert and his mind, and he hears my findings and kind of how dare you questioned me? Well, of course the parents are still confused, as the doktor has not clearly explain this very well frank when they ask him what kind of measurement is that Malik stamps back and says its units? The parents wanted this explained to them in an your terms, because marijuana was not something they were familiar with. They didn't know passing out was possible or likely or or really what. they wanted to know how much pot the kids would have had to smoke to achieve these high levels of th see mallet,

never really answers that particular question brain the more the parents, question him or put him for reasonable answers, the more the doktor gets upset with them and at some point he holds up a large envelope Reading the inside or the autopsy photos, and in these photos is the proof that you are looking for, while the parents of course date they don't want to see these vote at all right and they told him that they didn't want to see these photos yeah. I don't know what parent would want to see that yeah they wanted toxicology results and Malik insisted that they see the photos as crazy, as this whole story sounds. I believe this is true because remember the office servers are there with the parents at this time and at this meeting, and we already know that they are not all on the same page but one of the

mr. He had this meaning that some of the officers thing from the gate go. This should be the ship and looked at as a homicide, and then some of the other ones is gone. This is probably accidental or possibly suicide well in officers know that the parents are dissatisfied with with the off officers investigation of this incident. Yeah and I think the officers hearts would have to go out to those parents, and this is why the statement has to be true, because one of the officers then stands up at the table, and this is an increasingly heated debate, but he says pointing to the photos pointing to the envelope he pieces, they don't want to see those pray that same officer as he begins to take his seat again. He tells the parents that malloch had told them that twenty joints is what the boys would have had of smoked too. To have that high level of teenage, see that you know I am not a pot smoker myself, but outdoes assume that twenty joints is

there's a lot of joints. Yes, twenty who joins would be a considerable amount of men, even if, just put it in like terms of like cigarettes, a normal cigarette package has twenty cigarettes in it, so they would have had a smoke twenty cigarettes within hours. I I don't know, but it sounds that way because he's pointing to the one hundred mark in saying this is how stone these guys were it. It seems, but I would have walked up to that board and pointed to the hundred and said mister fogg me. This is how much of asshole you on that's that's what that one hundred mean well malik. He denies that he had ever told the officer such a statement. He says I never told officers that it would have taken twenty joints. And officers they had reached, to believe that the boys purchased a ten dollar bag of marijuana on one of their stops at night that the police correctly it's a man if he can get twenty june,

it's of ten dollars a marijuana yeah be a bad business to be, and because you can, you can could spend ten dollars and be good for quite some time. Rain oh examiners. Findings not only seemed questionable to the parents, but most of them citizens of arkansas work. stunned by the ruling. This is according to the newspapers. The parents decided to seek a second opinion. They hired a second pathologist to rule. You the debts now this was a pathologist came recommended to them from other physicians in the area. This is doctor J t, francisco he's located in Memphis. Tennessee he was charging the parents. two hundred dollars an hour, and he explain well them that he would preserve and test the blood of both boys and the urine of Kevin. They would be unable to test don's urine because his bladder had been completely destroyed right and then also the. This is the first time that the parents are aware that

that his urine hasn't been tested? Yes, we're seeing some progress here for the parents, they received the results from doktor francisco and he actually confirms doktor malak ruling. He quoted the same levels of th, see that Malik had reported one under Ninety seven micrograms per millilitre for cabin and a hundred and twenty two for dawn upon further review of the material sent to the parents from doktor francisco's office. They were able to determine that the results were from a test of Kevin's urine. Only no blood from either boy or no urine from dawn were tested. Alright, so he's agreeing with reno mister fogg me yeah, so that they get doktor francisco on the phone and after some debate on how he could have confirmed mavericks findings with only having tested the urine of one boy, the d,

after then admitted that they had arrived at the conclusion by inference because his lab in the arkansas lab followed standard procedures. The confirmation of one test gave weight of confidence that the other findings were going to be true as well writing, but can they just test than their blood's. But they didn't that's all thing. They were led to believe that the both sets of blood would be tested. They didn't testing of that, but they, but they claim that they can backup mavericks findings rights away. The ives family in the Henry family can again dick around again in February We have nineteen. Eighty eight the parents contacted members of the media to arrange for a press conference. This is a brilliant idea. And they arrived at this plan because the longer this thing went on there

beginning to realise that the only group and arrested in this case was the media. No other group wanted to spend any time on this thing. The day after the press conference, the families were contacted by richard garrett, who is the district deputy prosecuting attorney garrett wanted to help he told Linda there until he saw the press conference, he had no idea that the parents of the dead boys had been dissatisfied with the sheriffs department. he was going to hold a prosecutors hearing. Well, what's that is actually well. He he's hoping that they will re examine the case, but eight prosecutors hearing is not just unusual. They are highly unusual. These are intended for only special inquiries, particularly when the cause of death is in dispute more here than the cause of death is definitely, spew may we have two corner same body. They got super stoned Then they lay down on the tracks in they got ran over by a train and then that

parents are goin. While that doesn't add up, doesn't make a lot of sense to us. Well, the deputy prosecuting attorney garrick. He would introduce the families to a man by the name of dan harm it day and harmon is actually a guy that is off in a private practice. He's not a prosecutor, but he's going to be brought in as a quota quote special prosecutor in the situation, and he is going to make arrangements because he wants to get a grand jury organised so that this case can be looked at by some fresh eyes and decide if the investigation should shift gears or if that, there's

chance of a trial taking place in right right. So basically, this grand jury is going to be set up their ground. Look at the evidence and they're going to decide. Do we need to re investigate this case or is it a shot? You know open and shut case where these guys smoke some pot and then they had an accident where the train ran over them and, more importantly, if if the the cause of death is what's in question, what the big dispute is then can we get? You know another Autopsy can we get other autopsies performed on these two bodies right and after a couple? More autopsies are performed, I think part of it to us, like you, don't want. The families of these young victims are victims of at least at this point, a tragic accident you dont want them to be dissatisfied with law

force met and the way the coroner or anybody else handled their loved ones case. So upon further review the grand jury, the first thing that they are going to do is determine if this cause of death is correct and their findings they're not agreeing with the doktor Malik had stated, and they basically overturn the cause of death as a possible accident as a likely accident to a possible homicide. Well, once that takes place, there are going to need to bring in somebody to conduct a further investigation into this autopsy and take a look at this thing see if their findings are correct right, so we already have two autopsies done, so this is technically gonna, be the third autopsy done Yes, so this they will bring in a man by the name of doktor burden, and they We bring him in from Lana. They wanted to bring in somebody the head more experience

Somebody with outside eyes that wasn't so privy to what was going on in the area they burn in doktor burden and what are his findings while to begin with one of the things that he found most is concerning, or most important to, this case, is the shirt that was worn by dawn henry or allegedly worn by dawn Henry. This is the shirt that was on the boys body when he was found. This was found some distance away from the track where the torso and the boy, you have done. Henry were discovered or aids had dawned, didn't have assured on, but this shirt was possibly ran over by the train.

Yes, yes, the shirt as we know, has a lot of tears and defects in it. A question that was raised as to whether these tears are defects were made by the body being pulled down the track by the motion of the train over the body of the victim. What barton did was he took the shirt to a private laboratory that he had worked in atlanta and they took one of these tears. This was a tear from the lower back area of the sure that was kind of in the area of of an injury that they had and on the back of dawn Henry and they took a scalpel and they cut this defect out, which measured a little bit over an inch in length. They then took this defect in the

realize they're under a scanning electron microscope, which is a very powerful microscope, and with this microscope they could tell whether the fabric had been torn or cut with something like scissors or a knife. Rights of what he's saying is this cut on the shirt and the body was either made by scissors or a knife yeah. Well, basically, basically, what he can say is that the cut on the shirt it exhibited all the characteristics of something that was cut with a very sharp blade and so there's. No question as far as this being a tear or anything like that. As far as doktor Burton is concerned, also around the cut in the shirt they found evidence of blood, which means which means that the the boy had pro

boy bled through some kind of injury, before this shirt was removed from his body right. So, where started assume that this injury was pre mortem? Yes, yes, and in here's the deal to kind of laid out very quickly here of burdens concerns right. First of all, we have the the knife. He believes a knife made. This cut the shirt, second of all its major league concerning to him that this cut matches up with it, with an injury to the boys back and that more importantly, that the shirt was not found on the boy's body, meaning that if was an injury that was sustained by the train itself that you would expect to see. You expect to see that the shirt still on

the boy matching up the injury. Another thing that concern burden was an injury found to the left cheek of Kevin ives. This was an injury that he did not find consistent with any pattern that might have been made from being struck by the cow catcher in front of the engine. He explained that he sent photographs of the boy. Injuries to a computer enhancement specialists and he was awaiting those results. So we have two things that he finds pretty odd hm yeah. These are injuries that would not be consistent with with the train. Now the thing is once they get those results back captain he finds it as well as the the specialists that he sent them to. They find that that injury to Kevin's cheek is consistent with that of being struck in the face, with like the butt of a gun and more specific

Clearly they said that the gun that was found with the boys could have very likely made that injury or cause that injury. It would have been a similar type got or thank the other thing that's interesting here, captain is did he would find something in both of the boys that would give him cause of cancer? This is the amount of congestion and fluid in the lungs of both of the boys. He felt that this was inconsistent with the type of injuries that one might expect. from someone being run over by a train when you have sudden death occurring. He feels that its very likely that the possibility exists that, because there's this kind, congestion and fluid in the lungs that both boys were either unconscious or already dead when they were placed on those tracks, are either dead

or their knocked unconscious, and that's why they did it move at all and so that the train possibly did cause their death, but who put them there who made them unconscious another thing that he included in the autopsies as well. there's more opinion. Then it is fact, but he hid agreed with the train crew members stating this. He didn't see how anyone, whether they be passed out from drug use or be sleeping on the tracks. How they would not have you woke up as the train was getting closer and closer these these rails, they via wait. Did the train was extremely loud? Anybody that it even has ever stood next to a train just upon the ground, You can feel the ground moving below your feet There was also a state trooper that was involved with the grand jury, who had gone down to the train tracks with with some other people witnessing him.

and he time this so that he would be arriving and he could he could do this little experiment has a train was coming, he laid down and exactly how the boys were laying on the tracks and he jumped up from the from the rails pretty quickly, but he said that you know when this train was. This train was still quite a ways away, maybe a quarter of a mile. He said he felt the When it was like a mile and a half away from him, he could feel it coming down the tracks, and then, on top of that he said he he got terrified and to the point where he says he still has a little bit of like ptsd. Just from from that moment,

experiencing, that little space was also conscious at the time correct or eight. So this third autopsy it brings up some questions and it seems like it's not that agreeable with the first two autopsies, which I think you know, causes a lot of concern. I think it also causes lie concern with the parents. Well, as far as the second test goes inlets, let's call that a test rather than an autopsy, because it was supposed to be a testing of the boys. in the boys, urine airly, your zactly correct, thank you and in, but we know that that didn't take place. But not only does this point out here that the the autopsies were problem, wrong. But now this really starts to make you question the medical examiner himself. You know what what is he up to? Why? How would he have arrived at these conclusions?

after performing an autopsy, had a significant amount of time to perform these test, and he comes up with the king pleadingly different ruling. Then what this this other guy comes up with from from a land right in look, then it becomes witch doctors, correct Well, because of this whole case, we have a lot of interesting things. Come out about malik malik has all these top sees that were ruled normally natural causes or accidental? And because of this you know because the parents, I applaud the parents, they start stirring pot and then they start goin back, I'm lookin some of his other autopsies right. We have a scenario where he ruled a guy, wouldn't where'd you we're just gonna tell you about some of the more wild ones, let's call wild in and we won't use any names, because these pick these particular people are

we involved in this case through Malloch. They have really know bright, yellow nothing to do with this case, but this gives you an idea of some of the shenanigans going on with farming, malak rights, so old, Fahmy heave ill rules. This guide dies of all sir, not a big deal right, as is rolling they're gonna died of an old and Everybody actually agrees with him, says: hey mounted his job again by they had people find this guy's ed. Yes, so he was decapitated. Apparently that happens. Naturally, when you have an altar, your hedges pops off bright, so once they found this severed head, they realized this odd topsy was completely botch. Yeah. Do you want to know how he defended himself? On that particular case, sure

So and here's what happened here. They they found the the dog that lived with this guy. He actually lay dead in his home for for quite some time and the dog that lived there. They recovered some of the dogs vomit and in it they found what what Fahmy believed to be evidence of of human tissue of skin, and so what had happened was Fahmy said that the guy had died and he therefore quite some time and at some point, the dog chewed on the neck and to the point of decapitated his owner. But, of course the thing here is, it was ever all the evidence, points to a very in cut, or somebody killing this guy and taking off his head. Now. The gnawing of a dog chewing chewing up this. This guy's neck

right and then there's this other case where the guy this guy was suicidal. He he he told his family about it, yeah they they put him in a in a place for treatment. He wanted help right. He went to his family said, help me out and in ryan and looks like he lost his battle with the you know, suicidal thoughts, and he hung himself and in this case malik decides. Well, it wasn't suicide. It was actually a accidental death and again it's just stuff like that, where it's like, and this three examples of probably like does it may be a dozen or twenty of them out there that that are pretty well known, bright, and so the governor at this time is bill. Clinton and people are calling for this guy's jobs and look.

These two boys, the now we believe there is good reason to believe that there are some foul play and this guy is ruined this. We dug up all this other stuff he's not doing his job. Taxpayers are paying for that. They want him to call in. They want bill Clinton to ask for his resignation, books, bill Clinton says. Well, I am not really in charge of doing that. That's not really my thing! So what do they do? Do they fire him to the replace 'em? No, they give him Forty three percent raise where this leaves us now, as we now have to look at these two deaths as martyrs. Okay, so we need to conduct a proper murder investigation, and why were these things covered up? and why does it seem that government officials and people at the medical examiners office in the sheriffs department

I seem to not want to investigate this thing properly bright and at what lengths are they going to go to or what is anybody going to go to to possibly cover up this murder? There is so much more to get into and we're just on the first episode of this yeah, because if the cause of death can be overturned that up so many more questions. Ok, first of all, if these boys, were murdered. Why were they murdered? What what happened during those four hours between the time they left dawns house in the time that there found on those tracks. occurred during those four hours did they say something that they shouldn't have seen, did they come across somebody that they they shouldn't have come across? What happen those boys that four hours We have a really good idea what happen, because we have a bunch eyewitness accounts. We're gonna have to get into that tomorrow. Yes, and don't forget

check out all of our old episodes, they're available in the itunes store and on our store page at true crime, garage dot com that he has so much for sharing the day. He got so much for sharing I think he got so much for sharing it with a friend's family. I just got a text message a couple minutes ago, saying: hey, I told somebody about your show. They don't call it true crime garage they caught. The captain captain show well maintained that, isn't that special, alright, we'll see you guys in the garage tomorrow and until then be good, be kind and don't let her.

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