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Garage Refill /// Lane Bryant Shooting /// Part 1

2023-08-22 | 🔗

Garage Refill /// Lane Bryant Shooting /// Part 1 

Episode 200

Part 1 of 2


10 years ago a man walked into a Lane Bryant clothing store posing as a delivery man. He announced a holdup and began taking women to a back room where they were bound with tape. One of the brave ladies managed to call 911. The robbery escalated and turned very violent. Before fleeing he shot all six ladies. Despite police arriving on the scene within minutes of the 911 call the killer managed to get away. Police have spent millions of dollars trying to catch this man. Was this a robbery gone very bad or are there bigger motives at play? Beer of the Week - Grinderpunch by Soundgrowler Brewing Garage Grade - 4 out of 5 bottle caps


Beer Fund: https://truecrimegarage.com/home

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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The. welcome to true grime garage wherever you are, whatever you are doing things for listening, I'm your hosts, nick and with me, as always, is a man that studied at the me oghee, no karate, dough Joe. He is the captain We must look. I always look. I Good to be seen- and it's good to see you thanks for listing thanks for Tom the.
Today we are drinking grinder punch by the good people at sound growler brewing company internally park illinois garage grade a solid four out of I bottle caps captain was brought to my attention that I have been had easy to do. Each week very generous people go to true crime. Gorazde come in, they donate to the beer funding. We are very, very thankful for that, and those funds we do more than just purchased beer at the show has some overhead cost and we use of them a little extra left over. We donate money to the national centre for missing and exploited children, so that Your fund is very near in dear to my heart, because it shows the power of our garage group and so each week we give a shout out a sign of our gratitude for all of you out there and we read off names, and I do my best to read off these cities from all around the world, but a great
isner out. There has informed me that I was played because someone donated to our beer fun in left a name that is actually some kind of white supremacy code or reference, or something that I was unaware. So did I I want to address this, because I was unaware that we were going to have to police the beer fund and we we'll do that, because I'm pretty upset about this gap because the garage is not just a talk show. We have always said that it is a community, it's a space- is an escape a place where all who are good, all who are kind and all that don't litter, are welcomed and can welcomed in no that they belong here and antics like what we are talking about. Do not allow everyone to feel, welcome or feel as though they belong. So we will not tolerate any of that crap here. So now the other part about it too, though, look, I don't care, someone gets on a blog or our facebook page and says nixon idiot
or I think your shows dumb, you know I don't like the cut of his jib because it comes with the territory. You know we have a show is open to the public and not everyone is going to like me, or the captain awards a show and that's fine, but lotta haters that. But the big issue here for me personally, is that when someone calls a prank like this, something like this, this severely damaged or completely destroy relationships in my life, my family and my friends. So I wanted to just to take a moment here: captain and apologize to everyone. Everybody minus one person right so donate to the bear fun. Don't let her and don't be piece of shit there you go, we will get back to the beer shout out tomorrow in four now. Thank you in sheer all of the true pram garage army and the beautiful people parts unknown. Now everyone gather around grab a chair grab a beer,
Let's talk some true grab the the
Please say: I've gunmen shot and killed five women in a robbery at a women's clothing store late Saturday morning. The incident happened at this lane. Wyatt southwest of chicago the store is at a strip. Mall call the brookside marketplace. Authority say the store was open. When the incident happened, when police arrived, they found the victims in the back of the store. If british flag, scandinavia, where five, what lie Thirty, two towards sixty pounds. He was wearing a black wasteland, went about a black cat and dog genes. Authorities have been identified, the victims who say they range at age from twenty two to thirty seven, they say four were from suburban chicago, and one was from self in indiana residents as crime is a growing problem in the area of justice and security needs to be beefed up in this.
Been us, and I just feel really sorry for the people's family and the big guns, because in all this could have been, this could have been prevented. Police brought in a helicopter and dogs to search for the gunman, but found no sign of him. There was no security. Camera inside the lane, Brian store a police, say they're, trying to determine the suspect was recorded by any cameras at neighbouring stores are true. Prime story. This week is from a lovely place called tune we park. Can we park is a village located in cook cow. The illinois is one of the fastest growing suburbs south of chicago. This horrific crime took place in two. thousand and eight, but to give you a general idea of the location, tenderly work, illinois
two thousand and seven had no murders and only fifteen robberies were reported in this village. The population was just over fifty six thousand at the two thousand intend senses, and in two thousand and nine thinly park was selected by business week. A very good magazine as the best place to raise it. Family in america, so these single best place in all of america. Captain mouth that sounds pretty lovely. in two thousand and seventeen tenderly park was listed as one of the fifty safest cities in america. Didn't you know that the grudge was oh did number one place to do a podcast in the war, and parts unknown was number two desired place to live for the very low taxes, the hood Savoie week. We pay you too.
the. So while I feel very good about those assessments being quite accurate, you know that this is a safe place, great place to raise a family. This crime may make you feel different, but it is crimes like this- that remind all of us that, unfortunately, these sort of things why It can be rare, they can happen anywhere anywhere lane. Bryant is at the centre of this case and going to be a lean, bryant store, intently park, lane is a store for the ladys, according their website lane brain is the most rare. Nice name in plus size clothing and their emphasis is on fashion and fit not merely size. Why just one point the fact that and the looming case they didn't, sell two plus size and now lane bryant their known for plus sizes. I don't think they sell to the petite lady
the lot as discrimination goin on in. selling both ways, but dayton I will tell you that their emphasis on fashion and fit is what makes them a style leader. So quick and interesting story history here for lane bryant, the company was founded way back in nineteen o four by lena bryant. She may maternity clothing mainly dresses, I think, Lena rented a store front on fifth avenue, the name lane bryant, while the company got that name, because a bank officer misspelled lean name on the paperwork. The business opened its first branch sore in chicago in nineteen fifteen, so lane Brian, has been deep rooted, in the chicago area for a long time as of two thousand and thirteen, the chain consisted of eight hundred and twelve stores in forty six us states only alaska, hawaii,
montana and wyoming at that time did not lane, bryant stores in two days in ten lane, Brian accused fox and a b c of censoring. Their thirty second add spot during commercial breaks, for the dancing with the stars in american idol. Tv shows The ads featured plus size model, ashley gram in their line of longe array, lame brain accused the networks of discrimination, because stating that networks had no problem airing Victoria's secret advertisements with similar some early clad models in the same time slots and the lover of all women of all sizes just put in that out there hey I'm a lover of Ashley. Graham and so all right lane bryant store this particular lane. Bryant store that we are discussing today is located in the great village of tinley park at the brookside marketplace, which was built in two thousand, and five
lame bryant there were. There were probably what about six or seven lane Brian stores in the greater columbus area around us somewhere. Now nine over go shopping, but it's pretty much like a big box store right, yeah so smaller than a target, but still a decent size store day nor may find him in the mall or strip mall. So this particular one is a twenty three thousand square foot store a back in two thousand and eight brookside market place included some store fronts we're not open. Yet this making the lane bryant store more ice, isolated the strip, mall skirts a major section of interstate eighty, the belt of amerika and so has a holiday in any sleep in nearby, so hotels, near by hotel, motel holiday
No houses are in immediate in the immediate area and a few apartment buildings are about a half a mile away, so this brings us captain to saturday february. Second, two thousand and eight, which was a very cold day, the grass. And was frozen and snow covered, it was actually the day before the superbowl. Yes, it was gap and we the forty two year old, rhoda macfarlane she to work on this saturday, but she was not scheduled to work ass. She was the store manager at the lane brian store. Now she knew that her employees would be stretched on that saturday. After the corporate office, mailed customers flyers promoting a b, nine dollar: ninety nine cents clearance, sale I don't know much about the lame brian store, but from what I understand it's some of the items can be more expensive, and so this is a pretty
deal for everybody. This will draw on the customers ana on a busy saturday everybody's going to line up to get some. deal, did you say now and then and man that's right. So why there then she's, she's, a team player, the store manager roy as she rather than force her staff to go it alone. She decides to pitch in and go in that day now, brian store opened its doors for business. At ten a m, the crime be and to unfold. Shortly after at ten o, eight a man entered the store and engaged the clerk asking her questions about a delivery. He carried with him some type of papers that he stated were related to the delivery that he was attempting to make at this store. Now this was wearing a dark colored below the waste length winter coat. As
He entered the lane, bryant store. It is reported that he looked toward the ceiling, and this is believed that he was looking for cameras. He chatted briefly with rhoda macfarlane the store manager. He also talk to another person we will refer to as the witness we don't use her real name. We don't know her real name, but she is called martha and were not using our name, because the police don't use her name right, he's only referred to as Martha. So that's what will we will have to call her here? So the man spoke to both of these. Ladies regarding this delivery. Well, this this was a ruse. He was not there to make some kind of delivery. This was used to engage buddy with inside the store, I'm a little confused. Whose why he would use this as some kind of tactic, but we're gonna see where it goes from there. Okay, so rota the manager she decides to try to help out. So she calls
Another store location to see if there was some kind of mixed up with the delivery, because she's telling the guy we don't have a delivery scheduled right. So Maybe this delivery was supposed to go to another store anyway. During this time, who customers entered the store. It is at this time the police would later say the man then pulled out a gun and announced a hold up. He forced the four women into the back room. This was a small, employ bacon, break room. He forced the women to tape each others hands, and then he bound the remaining women or women himself after binding them. He told them to lay face down on the floor. Then two more women who who later entered the store. They were also taken to the back room. They were bound and placed next to the others. Now the order, so we have for customers at this time when everybody has been taken up.
Ditch the order of which the customers came in is unknown it is known that Conny wool fork was a fighter and ass in point during this hold up She had a physical altercation with the suspect she was struck in the face with what is believed to have been the butt of the gun that the man brought with him. She also had blood under her fingernails, which is believed to have come from the suspect, so she fought this guy at some point. This man also took some of the stores clothing and placed it over the heads of some The women now want to be clear here on this statement, because I've this has been reported, multiple ways from multiple sources and several of the soul So I suggest that all of the women had their heads covered with with
clothing items. Some suggest that was just a few of the women and also one report. A couple reports state that women's panties were used to cover their heads. How well, this might not seem important. I think that it is somewhat important because we going to be relying on some witness statements to have conclusions and thoughts about this, spect, and we will have to use our own opinions, to determine how much weight to apply to those witness statements later so. Apparently, one of the victims, one of the ladys it was bound, was the was a target of sexual advances by the suspect during the time that he had them taken hostage. It is stated that she was fondled. There was does not sexual
answers- that's that's assault, bright sexual saw iron. I apologise on reporting it as if as it well, whoever reported it is a tool bag there. There were no further sexual content or contact from suspect to any of the other victims. Beyond that point, now store manager, rhoda macfarlane Somehow she managed to call nine one one: she had her cell phone blue tooth yeah. She balls. Nine one wanted ten, forty four a m, and I want everybody to cut a mark that time and there in their heads here because remember worse, that the man entered the store at approximately ten o eight, so he's been in the store for quite some time. Ten. Oh he enters at ten. Forty four, there's a nine one. One call, and he still on the store at this time, wrote a she managed shoe to make this call. While the gun man was distracted,
even though she was bound with tape on the call which posted on the timely park police website, so very very brave wrote it macfarlane com to notify nine one one of the robbery and progress that the nine when one dispatcher picks up and at this point rota says lane Brian she whispered to the test catcher and the dispatcher ask whereat and she states tenderly park. Please hurry was taken with the nine one. One call one would think buried. Dandelion ever let me get you to donate up. It is believed that this I heard the dispatchers voice over rhoda macfarlane bluetooth, the police were despatched. A tinley part police officer was in an adjacent
parking lot at the time of the nine. When one call it is approximated that he was about twenty, I'm sorry two hundred yards away police arrived on the scene very quickly, and it is reported that the first officer arrived only about two minutes after the short nine, when one call now the the witness We are calling Martha. She has stated that she believed she heard police sirens before the shooting started. So this is at approximately ten forty six a m. So all six women at this point- a ten foot six a m were shot execution style, rota macfarlane was the only one shot in the forehead, the rest in the back of their heads the man then walked out the front door and disappeared five of the ladys
dead when police arrived and, as we said, only a couple minutes from the beginning of macfarlane nine, when one call one woman survived, this is who are where we are coral calling Martha. She too had been shot. and left for dead, but she tricked the killer by moving her head at the last second causing a severe graze in her neck. She then pretended to be dead. no police arrived a black she'll, be as well as a black sedan? Were seen on video, leaving the lane brian parking lot at approximately ten. Forty eight a m. So all of this happen within a time span of about forty minutes. The Spect arrives at the lane, Brian store at approximately ten o eight. The
all tonight on one is placed at ten. Forty, four shots were fired at approximately ten forty six and the suspect left the scene at approximately ten forty eight this shows sponsored by better help, sometimes were faced with a crossroads in life we don't know which path to take, maybe thinking about a career change or feeling like your relationship needs some tlc whatever it is. Therapy can help you map out your future and trust yourself to find the way forward three times in my life. I felt that there be is right, me, and while I was a little apprehensive at first each and every time I have found therapy to be an enlightening and positive experience. If you are thinking of starting therapy, give better help a trot. it's entirely online designed to be
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all right. We're back newspapers went to the door steps in new stands the following morning sunday chicago tribunal lead with the headline. Five women slain in store police hunt, gunmen in shooting at tinley park mall. The article reads a gun man led women into the back of a clothing store saturday morning killed them then walked out. Front door and disappeared. Police said there were No survivors at the lane, bryant store and a suburban strip mall along interstate highway, eighty and what they are calling a botched robbery. Stew with little information made public, conflicting reports and rule. is about motives and witnesses. Swirled. Throughout the day, officers from at least eight local departments quickly descended on the shopping center. Some went from door to door, combing stores for clue
Others hunted in a nearby subdivision for a stocky man, described by one witness, while how helicopters hovered in the sky, one helicopter armed with an infrared camera scanned snow, covered, open land enforce preserves police pleaded for help from anyone with information on the killings free as night fell, the gunman remained on the loose tenderly part police chief, Michael o Connell tried to calm, fear, saying we are very confident that the offender is out of the area, but early in the day and officer at the scene admitted we have no idea who he is. The gunman was still at large late saturday Do they have any evidence of what you took, or did he take anything? Let's get into that, but I want a kind of clarify some things. I found that the article to be very interesting. This is what the the law
schools are hearing. These are the report's their hearing and reading just the day after, and I thought we should come through that, because there is one very important detail here and that is that key the police are stating that There were no survivors five. Women were taken hostage. They were shot and killed, but The man left the store. The reason for this. This is Any confusion on anyone's part: this is simply to protect the living witness. They did not want the offender to be aware that there was a survivor. They didn't want this person to know that there is still a person alive from the scene that could identify them and that he might I mean we have to keep
a mine whether he went into the store with intending to kill anyone at all. We don't know, but at the end of the day, what he did to what this person did do is murder five people very capable of looking for this and finding her and killing her. We wouldn't even know at this point. The investigation he would have known who she was yeah. I mean could be ties from the suspect to one or more of the victims, or I mean it. Is she being kept in a house? little for observation for days on end. You know if we ve all seen the the mob move, he's where there's somebody that survived something in there are living witness and they gonna put put the police officers by their door because we yes, a mobster dude Come in the middle of the night and take this person out, but on the other side of things you could say there was a survivor and if this was
just the robbery that went bad and this person snap that could force the hand of this individual to turn himself in I'm like 'all somebody survived I'm going to get caught. Let me turn myself in well: let's take a look real, quick captain at the key players in this whole crime. Let's talk about some. Let's talk about the victims, as well as what they may know about this aspect. So there were five women killed, one wounded, she treated. As you know, the wounded one would go on to be known as Martha. She would be treated at saint James, high, biddle in olympia fields and she was released on sunday, so she was in the hospital for approximately twenty four hours currently it's, my understanding that this living witness is living out of the area now, but she stays in close phone contact with police investigators and she's been extremely cooperate,
and she is there for them whenever they need to ask questions of her. So one of victims that we ve already mentioned by name was rota macfarlane age, forty two she was the manager of the Brian store intently park. She had been there for two years He was a: u s, air force veteran. She work as a nurse at Andrews air force base role, served as an associate pastor, embassy, christian centres, began working at lame brian. After her crest hill church had closed. She started. Program at her church called princess. This programme teaches girls, proper etiquette and guides them to help them grow to be young productive women, she was planning on expanding this programme and expanding it to other churches in the areas where in other areas as well, she went to work
saturday buzz, but was not scheduled to work, as we had already said now rota was engaged over the holidays of two thousand and seven to a man named Stuart gives she continued to answer her christian calling at the lane Brian store, offering and using her employer discount to buy clothes for people who are less fortunate. She is the only victim that was shot in the forehead. This is believed that the killer com on the phone talking to nine one one and when he in front of her. That's when he shot her in this and another one of the victims is jenny, lynn, bishop. Yet jenny was thirty. Four at the time of this crime, she was from south band and she was a customer at the lane, Brian she was married to Brian Bishop and they had three young children. She graduate from Indiana university, with a bachelor of science in nursing and ninety. Ninety six, she had
employed by memorial hospital since ninety ninety five, she worked in the intensive care unit. Fellow nurses described her as a compassionate, carrying knowledgeable and efficient worker losses, and are so you know it's bad ass. Relatives of Jennie bishop believe that she may have gone to the lynn. Bryant store that day to cash in a birthday gift card near the lane bryant. Yes, she had celebrated her thirty fourth birthday, just five days prior to the crime. Her husband was in the area for business and she was out while he was working our next victim. is Sarah the france key she's twenty two years old at the time of the crime from oak, for she was a customer as well. The future look promising for Sarah because in may of two thousand seven she graduated from north illinois, university with a degree and finance and headed
already lined up at sea in a financial core, and this is in chicago, She went to the lane bryant store that day, because she needed were closed for her first post college job now later after life, a a park bench in oak force bears her name, she was the youngest of the five murdered victims. Just twenty two years old scholarships were also awarded in her name honey. Wolf fork was one that we had mentioned by name as well. She was thirty seven at the time of floss more. She was a customer's well at the store that day, she was, a single mother of two sons- ages, six and tat. Her youngest child suffers from spina bifida and requires much of his mother's time and attend and for a seven year she served the village of park forest in a variety of positions. Working
in the financing community development departments? She left her job with the village in December. Two thousand and six. This pursue a family mortgage business with her mother connie as a mortgage lender lived with her mother and two sons to help make ends meet in the troubled housing market. She took a second job stocking shelves overnight at the super target in the same tenderly pop shopping center, she was treating herself to a man, a cure and pedicure on that saturday. Some shopping at lane bryant to buy a new outfit when She didn't show up for a scheduled meeting with a client at two p m. Her family grew increasingly worried. Her family said that she was a fighter and would not have gone along without a fight. It is report, this she had bruising and blood under her fingernails that might have been from the suspect,
Bruising, as we said, is thought to be from being struck in the head with the gun. We also have carry to use she's thirty, three years old of frankfurt, she was a customer carry was a social worker at her school home, floss more high school that my friends, social workers. High school is an extremely tough and difficult job. I dont know this particular high school, but I'd know two ladys that work in these very same capacities and let me tell you friends that is no walk in the park. Now carry and her husband married a year and a half before the murders, her husband waiting for her to return home from a quick shopping trip to the lane. Bryant clothes store when he saw the news reports on tv and- actually recognised her car parked in front of the store on the news coverage. Yolanda robust, sick feeling, yeah after
only saw his wife's car in the news reports. He left their home and he went to the tinley park police station there he was what he was suspecting was confirmed that she was wanted, victims now, the day after carry dyed, her brother's wife went into labor they had a little girl, they named they named or carry carries current and former students packed into the what ended up being a seven hour, wake for carrying in memorial of her wife, Martha, as we said, not her real name. She was the surviving victims. She was thirty, three was thirty, three years old at the time a part time employees, at the lane bryant store. She was. along with the rest, but the bullet went into her neck, missing, vital organs she was enrolled in nursing, school and working to jobs to make ends meet
recently divorce. She stated that she had heard the police sirens prior to the shooting started. So what do we know about the sun? while the killer was not wearing a mask or disguise, he was described as six foot tall, and I do want to kind of add to that, though, a little bit, because I've read and watched news reports yeah that will state the He could have been, as short as I believe, five nine now or short firm mail or he could have been his tall- is six too Now I want to throw this in their though the overwhelming majority of these stories say that the man was six foot tall, that he was approximately six foot tall, but don't they also say he stocky? Yes, so he it's an he's an african american male of average wait. He, the police, have described him as stocky, but also average wait see that dilemma
send them, while they state that they believe he's between two and two hundred and twenty pounds right, but at six foot tall I wouldn't call somebody Starkey he's. Also described as a medium to dark skin tone, with braided hair with three to five. puffy corn rose pulled toward the back of his head, one brain hung down the right cheek and had four, light green beads on the end. This man is believed to have been between the ages of twenty five and thirty five years old at the time of the murders. Now the suspect This is where we might have a little issue with his way captain the suspect was where a dark, colored waste length, jacket or coat right now we did say
very cold. That day the ground was frozen, snow covered depending on the poor, fiend s or the bulk of this code that could change the perception of his weight. Yeah my jacket makes me look a little fluffy. There are some reports there that state it. He was seen having a role of duct tape and one of the pockets of this coat. this aspect was also wearing black genes within broidery on the back pocket similar to a cursive g now. One possibility here captain is that he was wearing g unit clothing. The G unit clothing company was established in two thousand and three. This is because a fifty cent- and you know he tinville- mark echo- create this line of clothing and accessories? Inspired by fifty cent and fellow gi unit members, these genes have a cursive g on the pocket.
right. So possibly wearing this line of clothing now the suspect, also wearing a charcoal grey or dark ski skull. Cap on his head, a couple of websites mentioned that he had looked possibly left behind a baseball hat at this of the crime. The survivor said the killer may have had professionally manicured fingernails This is only mentioned once so. You know I I actually hesitated. The even put this in the report, but on air on the side of full disclosure. throw it in there and in my let people make what they want of it. Now police have released a composite sketch based on the witnesses, describe the weapon that he used is a smith and wesson glock. The gunman took a few hundred dollars according to police
there were two vehicles seen leaving the area shortly after the shooting. This was a black ass. You be a black sudan now police have said they have finger nail clippings remember. We said that one of the victims had its believed it. She had blood underneath her fingernails. Remember. We also stated that the man came in with papers that are supposed to be part of this delivery. Rather he was making maybe instructions or some type of invoice. Something like that. It's believed that the police have these papers, that he left them at the scene of the crowd pot, possibly touch on those who correct correct. So that's what we know for certain on the suspect. Do you think this is just a robbery turn me Well, that seems to be the strongest three or motive. That's out there, because this is a very strange crime cap
when you, when you really think of the simplicity of it, where you have so many people being killed, so many murdered victims, and yet you have almost robbery situation that doesn't make a lot of sense when you look at it- and I know There are probably details of this crime that have just not been made public ran Therefore, we are only working with part of the story, but yes, I would say that probably the strongest or most popular theory regret this crime out there is that the thought is. It was a simple robbery that turned violent a botched robbery in which the offender made off with very little cash in the course of the robbery he figures out that one of the ladys
called nine one one and he panics in shoots all of them. Now, within a couple minutes: yeah, oh and wick, I mean I understand that this is the most likely theory, but your robbing a store at the beginning of the work day store opens at ten o clock. You enter the store at or ten o attenuate. Sorry, you know you're out the store within forty five men. If you take a couple of hundred dollars, I mean, if you're, going to rob a store where most people understand that there's a night drop done for all the stores and a lot of these stores. Personally, like a lane bryant, these are credit card base, storms in and now most stores, don't carry a lot of cash on them so you see what I'm saying like: no, no, no, I I follow you and that's why I feel like this is a crime that doesn't make a lot of sense right and in in in here,
where I go with that my thought is that what I can see What we know from the living witnesses statements right is that we are probably. Working in talking about a very organised offender here and I see where this guy may have had some type of plan weathers whether it all makes sense to us may not be the case. We don't know what kind of reimer reason this do its work and with first of all, and then second of all it this to me, like he lost control of the situation fairly quickly and when things we're going his way here, not intelligent enough to work through the problem depend album solve on the spot in the end his only result. Only thing he can come up with is to kill him buddy and leave. So so, let's, let's go through this first theory here. Ok, did you bring up some good points, so if this was to be a robbery, why would say
but he choose a store like lane bryant or any kind of clothing where it all to rob early on a saturday. So I got my first thought there would be, that we have a guy that is looking for what he would perceived to be a soft target, an easy target, yet chances are them, please we're gonna be female chances. Are the customers are gonna, be female and by choosing early morning hours, you may have less people in the store to have to deal with, because as we mentioned. This is the twenty three thousand square foot store. It could be tough, it could be tough corral everybody and manage the scene. Just given the space of this place, I mean people can hide fairly easily in a twenty three thousand square foot building? But that also might be to your point that this aspect is not thinking things. Clearly, and so he's gonna robber place that one does not gonna have alike.
If on it and it's a big building. Now, when we say that a soft targeted, the potential victims or people in the store would all be female or most likely to be female. Lets me clare, we're using we're trying to use the criminals thought process here in trying to use the suspects thought process here, and we don't know that first certainty, but guess what, be that that may have put some kind of put him at ease in some way that there were the reason for picking this particular store that really, the only thing that stands out to me or is: could it be that this man believes that ok, they're they're, not selling, low lying staff, you know maybe there's some more money in the store than would be in some of the other stores, because there, you know more expensive items ring so soft target to
should be secluded in some way from from busy air Yes- and we know the lane bryant store- was away from the rest of the businesses and it's in a strip mall. That was not fully rented out at the time also an easy target, should have an easy escape route. The lane Brian, is just minutes from interstate eighty. This is a huge free. That that starts in new jersey and ends in California. We mention The timing is a little weird, but for this of wanting an easy target. The timing is great, so walks into the store that just opened its doors, eight minutes prior less likely encounter a large number of customers, but is the me that you're after why not pick a bank or gas station right? Well, we have the surviving witnesses account. The killer
according to her, the killer walked in and was looking up at the ceiling and its believed he was possibly looking for cameras now. My thought here is that this man knows that bad some gas stations because of their high probability of getting robbed I'll be out fitted with cameras, multiple cameras, so when he into the store he has his technical, committed zero infractions against the law. At this point right. So, if you in any he's, never been in the store before and he's looking up any sees cameras. He can simply turn around and walk out and go pick another targeted. He is wearing g unit pants. So I think that is a crime. Theirs there are some drawbacks to this theory and you ve mentioned a couple of them captain, but I don't want to go through my laundry list here, so we don't leave any out as long as it doesn't include any g unit, pants, I'm ok,
through laundry list. So, as you mentioned, how much money would there be in a register that debts? You know they just open up the store? Eight minutes prior? Ok, I don't know well. Here's the other thing to on a couple of accounts. They state that the guy may have robbed the women too so most of the material out. There does not state this, but this could this could be passed or maybe even likely, you know had the ladys bound in. If he fell in control of the situation, he gets the cash from the register and from the office in finds out. It's not that much money. he decides to rob the ladys as well. I mean yes, it's it's. It's reminiscent conversation in the diner scene and pulp fiction. When the couple is getting worse, to rob the diner and they're talking about what their plan. Is in their last heist,
They say that they both agree, that it was a good idea that they robbed both the business and the customers in the last heist, because they they doubled their take yeah, but again, not very well thought out cause how many people are. Gas. Well, I'm just stating this could be a possibility after he finds out he's not got much money. At this point I agree so and keep in mind, the killer was in store for approximately forty minutes. This gives him enough time to rob the ladys as well. Now I do wonder here. One thing that I one thing that I wish that we have here is a lot more information. I think there was probably a lot of stuff that went down in that store over the course of the forty minutes What at what time did he draw? His gun? Is a big question for me. I would.
To know what time the store manager called the other store to inquire about the delivery that he was pretending to do. So, let's say that this theory is right that this is correct. This would lead me to believe- and I am sure that the police have looked into this and I, if not, I Don'T- stand and why they would have, but that we need to get new police officers yeah. My thought would be just food for thought here: captain Potentially, this guy might have some experience in doing this, and what I mean by this is maybe the planned doesn't seem so bad when you orkut over the course of many different stores. I mean. Only didn't work out in this situation is what I'm getting at, because here's the thought, the suspect may have hit what he perceived to be soft targets before he's hitting them early in the morning for good reason,
maybe he's only looking to get a few hundred dollars, let's say two hundred dollars whatever's in the register. Now. Why would he do this? The thought is that would bring, he brings a gun into the store with him, but probably most time. He never even needs to draw the weapon to make the threat he just goes up, threatens the person at the register or speaks to somebody in the store, tells them it's going to be a robbery and he makes off with two hundred dollars now keep in mind. If he does pull a gun. A two hundred dollars on armed robbery. go away pretty fast and most police jurisdictions law. And if you did this at the bank, it's a federal fence. Second of all, if you, if you mentioned,
there's a gun, then his arm robbery. So it doesn't matter. If you show your gun or not right. An implied threat of a firearm is the same as having right, but chances are that these registers are not going to have bait money or dye packs. That's what a bank would have you know. The dye packs are normally within like a football field or so they'd just blow up, and they turn everything blue, a smurf, your ass, and so yes, I agree that this plan doesn't seem so dumb, except for the fact that you're going into a store showing your face. And yes, less likely that there's going to be there's going to be less cameras than a bank, but they're still going to be cameras, but now you have all these eyewitnesses that see your face. So I still think it's a really horrible plan, but I I think
if he manages to get out of the store and there are no cameras to take footage of him. While we have cameras seeing cars leave right, those are from another store right. So alright, let's get into let's go to the theory, real, quick. I this is very similar theory in the sense that its robbery, but possibly an insight, job, meaning our offender. The killer had insight help may be an assistant manager or former manage or former employ correctly, so I'll break this downward quick inside job that this robbery was set up with the help of a current employ or former employees of this particular lane, bryant store or be in another lane, bryant store. These would be The only so one thing that I'm curious about here. with the money. We know that a few I'll call you whiskers a few hundred dollars was taken in this robbery. I would love to know. Did this come from the safe? Did it come?
the register. Did it come from a combination of both also robbing the customers. Well, where did this money come from, because one thing here is that current managers, current assisted managers or previous managers and us de managers are likely to be the only people with the safe combination of money taken from the safe. He accessed that safe in some form or fashion, whether it be through employees that were at the lane bride that day or here in there, with prior knowledge of this store. Right now, where I work before there was a safe, but all it had was the two drawers that we used. So there was no extra funds of Zeus whatever in those drawers
So again, if even if you just got the one drawer and then he open up the safe, so I can get the next drawer. I would at one assume that he would get more than a few hundred dollars if he could get to both drawers so again that would be information that I don't know if it would help the investigation. But again I mean this crime is now ten years old. I think at some point try to get the public involved. I mean that's one of the reasons why we're covering the case to shine some light on it and get people talking about this. So if this, in fact were the correct theory here, the correct motive little this is kind of how I see it is playing out. Ok, so the inside person, the accomplice that this man had that this killer
failed to show up to the store for whatever reason that day, you know the inside accomplice got cold feet or went out of ever decided not to show this leaving the suspect stuck with six women who he thought. Could I didn't I am he walks in their without any type of disguise. Maybe he doesn't. He doesn't discover that his helper, that his accomplice is not there so after he's drawn the gun and already told everybody that there's going to be a hold up, so as to suspect is, is waiting he had to control the workers in the customers and ass tat went on at the scene. He sources control of the scene and once here's, the nine when one operator on macfarlane phone. He knew that robbery was a total bust, except for the register money and then the suspect, here's this
I in the distance in a moment of anger or panic, or both he killed the women and fled the scene. I I think this could be a strong three. The only reason why I really question the weight of the theory is like what you for what you just said ten years his past okay and this theory. is easily investigated and we know from d. It was that we know here in Columbus and in the greater columbus area that this is often the theory that they look at first when they start looking into these crimes. Can we hi. Anybody that's working their previous employees to this criminal act, whether just the theft robbery or what went down here so in exploring this possibility here are some more information, and that this is what I was the gather from an assistant manager of a lane, bryant store, and it is at state
this person told me that it is store policy. It was then in his car. the store policy to have a manager or an assistant manager? Oh, the store, along with a regular employee right which we can learn from the lulu lemon case. It is also paul to drop off the previous days. Proceeds at the bank in the morning. For the store open. So this is In one thing, that's highly contested, so I can go off of is what this person told me. I've never worked day of my life at lane, Brian a day in your life, I filled out two applications. They didn't even call me for an interview or anything for lane. Bryant yeah, I'm doing this because I'm joking I'll say it's because you have a fascination with their spokes models.
No just to be clear on that all the money taken in the day before is then counted the next morning and dropped off at the bank before they open for business. On that day, pretty clear soviet, their early enough. You get the drop. According to this person, the distant manager and the manager are the only two that had the safe combination. So, if, like you said if this person could have got to the store before they opened their doors, there's a chance at that time, the safe would have been opened money is out and being counted by each employee and during the I'm once the monies counted they sign off on it and it here's my thought. Any chance? This guy didn't do much homework and thought this. Or was opening at eleven, because that's where that's you start to wonder about the delivery
he seems to have a ruse to want to get in the store. Now don't need a ruse to get into the store and assess the situation when doors are open, anybody can just walk. You just go in and act like her shopping, yeah yeah, but this guy at what he a fake delivery, they who is planning on doing yeah, but I think to me that the thick delivery is more of a set up to look for him to get to the building and for him to be looking around and the kind of case casing the joint with this ruse, and also, I think, with this insider job idea, right that it's inside job. I also think that there is a lot of theirs high turn over rate and these retail stores and you're talkin about nor my allotted different ages,
Now, when I worked at pacts on, there was a lot of people in their late, teens early twenties, and then he had other people in their mid thirty's. So yet this pretty decent range and it could have just been somebody drinkin out a parties animal. I used to work there in blah blah blah easy homesick. I get your in telling about the workings of of the store right you or this guide. Did some girl that worked at lane bryant two years ago I mean he could have some kind of insider knowledge on some different level. Well, where the this is where I have a big issue with this whole story is that we have, if, if he in fact had insider knowledge of the intricate workings of the lane brian store or if he working with an accomplice? Remember we were stating that, according to this person that we spoke to the money, is counted in the morning and then taken to the bank that day and
is done by an assistant manager or manager and the story? is opened by a manager or assistant manager and another employee by that The thing that I have a big question mark on It is in. That makes this whole thing very curious to me is the rota: farlane, the store manager. She was now its general knowledge, as she was not scheduled to work that day and according to newspaper accounts. She was ends up being the only manager that we can get the name of of being in the store that day right. So what could happen, though, is tat. A manager gets sick system answer, some eight get sick, something happens, they have to call off work and she The comment of course: now I understand how that works. I'm saying what makes it weird is that either that's just a coincidence or This happened on this day for a reason
The questions here are some some questions that were likely asp, the investigators- and hopefully they receive satisfactory answers to help clear suspects- are potential suspects in this case, so why was there an assistant manager scheduled to work on the morning of February? Second, two thousand and eight, and if so, where was here She and what was the reason for them not being at the store to did the money from the previous day get dropped at the bank. On the day of the shooting? If so, did the bank have any cameras that they could see the people making the money drop or followed to or from the back the number three. But an ex employee or an assistant manager have promised a large pay out from a safe and then change their mind and failed to show up to assist this offender.
next question I would have would be have lain bright, employees or ex employs from other locations been investigated, thought here too a little bit going deeper into this back a little bit the lane bryant store was open. This particular store was open prior to rhoda macfarlane, having taken over as a manager. So who was the prior manager and was the carbon into the safe changed when management change. Das sometimes is safe. This change random. Yeah and who, in who's in charge of save in changing the safe combination, is that something that they send somebody in from corporate to do that, or is that just going now a phone call and stating well now you have to change the combination, here's the old one, you know, that left up to that particular store. What's the protocol on that and then here's another question that I would have regarding the safe combination
or the save combinations different per location, or are they similar enough to figure out a different stores combination. Now that seems like a weird question. Right now there most of these, but it doesn't doesn't when people who have worked retail worked where there are saves specially and franchises or chains? They understand. That questions, not that strange of of a thought right either It's strange, the reason! Why is because most of those people hired security companies to help them do this stuff, so the security companies are not going to have branches in similar locations have combinations that are even remotely close. That's my guess I mean, and that's just from my experience with banking and how many times we had to change combinations to everything, to the main vault to the teller vault, to individual vaults, on ares teller stations and in the back room, and so I'm guessing that-
lane, Brian being such a big store, laissez eight hundred and some stored year, hundreds of hours as of two thousand third they're gonna, have some security company. That's Monitoring all that stuff. They're gonna pay. Somebody to to monitor that. I agree I could be wrong I agree, but let me throw this area. And I know you're speaking on experience but you're. Speaking from your experience. Having worked in a bank now, I know you worked retail at some point as well. I don't know if you had any insider knowledge of how they did the the safes where at the water was tonia. Why thing is this a key but italian, in the break. I believe our safe pacts on he could just picked up and walked out with it wasn't like a diamond. The tat stole waller anything, but that is it a person could carry it out a store yeah. This would in two thousand and one when I worked there. So what
a long time ago there was there is barely any cash ever in that store if subway, when it came in to rob us it's like here's. Your couple hundred bucks have a nice day. I retail. Very briefly, and I was such a low level employee. I had no knowledge of anything. I went in there and worked for fun twice a week, basically works Well, I mean they paid me, but it was just kind of a fund job that I took. But, however, I did work as a manager at a gas station in a manager at a pizza shop. Now we had pretty at both play as we had pretty lucy goosey rules. As far as how we conducted business. I will say that set at the here, but this was what nineteen seventy six none of them would have been like ninety nine. Two thousand. So I will say this the what the gas station that I worked for is a major chain. I'm not going to say what net what the brand is, because I don't want people.
oh this, while we don't want, he will look down on that brand, for hiring the at the location that I worked. We had a four digit combination to the safe and the reason why I oppose this question of. Could an employee of another store halves general knowledge of how this store works, and I don't think, that's far fetched even as much so as a possible combination idea for the safe- and I bring this up because of my experience there. So arse. We had a store number of four digit store number is not easily known to the general public, who had nothing to do with our street address it wasn't posting anywhere on the outside of the stock or on the inside of the store. It was something that Usually only the managers would now mostly employees were unaware of our stored number. However, I will say as anna- and I only know this, and maybe it didn't work this way at every location, but at the time
I worked at this gas station Our combination are four digit combination to our safe was the store number stupid. Well, no, it is stupid, it's very stupid, but it's also not it's not cry it's an out of the realm of possibility that this type of thing was going on and on other places, and but again all we have to know is how much money did he get and I'm sure that the law enforcement is well aware of where he got the money from How do you get the money from so this is a question that they could obviously captain before we move on to, I have a bit of an outside the box theory here, but for we move out of talking about robbery. There into a got turned violent turned into murder by theirs. Other theory out there that that I find to be very interesting and the
He is too simple: fire fire is an out of town offender. Me it's in out of town murdered witness and what I by that is remember. We mentioned earlier that jenny, Bishop she was from out of town. She was town with her husband that was there on work jenny was going shopping, while her husband was out working that day is there. It is there a chance- and this is just food for thought- the offender that the man that went into rob the lane bryant store. Could he have been staying at one of those local hotels where she was day and they they had seen each other prior to the robbery he gets and in air in the back room, and now he's got a customer that he recognizes her face. He has no name, but if he recognizes her as having
did the same hotel as he had the night before he would probably soon, that she might be able to say hey that guy that took off with the money at a here he was looking at the blah blah blah hotel last night pos, where I do believe that the suspect was by the nine one one call, because once that call happen, five murders within minutes, yet there when the shooting starts. So I find this theory intriguing and an iphone it to be very interesting, and it makes me you gotta think about other possibilities here I would believe that they are of time was spent investigating, local hotels, you know most of the time people they keep records of licence plates view goals norma need a credit card to rent credit card. I de all those sorts of things not that this individual couldn't have stolen. You know, couldn't have put together materials to try
oh and use somebody else's funds or vehicle for that? One of the theories here is that This was not a robbery at all that this was kind of is kind of stage be a robbery by incense there was. There was a murder, there was actually gonna happen and The thought on this is rota macfarlane. She would be at the centre of this thing because, for several years, Rhoda had been deeply involved with the embassy christian centre, which is a now defunct church increase. till illinois. She began as an administrative assistant to the pastor? George, a joy, junior, and soon became one of his most trusted. Colleagues She was ordained as a minister and had become an associate pastor at the church and she was even
selling girls. Remember. We said she set up that princess program. At some point, rota began to feel uncomfortable with some of a giant financial decisions. Its unclear of what, if any wrong doing transpired and whether road is discomfort was solely over finances or if it included something more personal that she had uncovered So a bad relationship happens between these two now all around the same time: the churches, Membership went from one thousand people to seventy five by the time of two thousand and six and this is when rota decides to leave. Yes, just looking and looking on outside in when you see drastic numbers like that drop you soom, you kind of soon something weird is going on there right was.
Sounds to me that he was making some weird decisions. This got out to the members of the church, most of the members The church probably thought in a shady or or not a part of their belief systems and they left. Well, a joy. He moved with his family and several church members to Austin Texas, and this was to start a new church. Embassy nation network, which now it appears to be closed as well. While now the problem with this theory for me, is that Rona wasn't scheduled work. That day yeah. No, I get what you're saying, but I want to kind of go. And this in a little more depth here, because this was something that the police investigate and even though they ve been very tight lipped about it. One intriguing clue that the investigators uncovered is a twenty minute phone call place by a former embassy member. Now this too
place about an hour before the murders, and it was routed through the tower The cell phone tower nearest the lane bryant store a pair This was enough to peek the task force interests because in late July of this year of the murders, nearly a d detectives from the major crimes task force travelled to taxes, to interview former church members and associates of rota, including a I am now, apparently, at this time he was living in some big mansion up in the hills and somewhere in texas, when they tracked him down. right, so you go from a thousand members to seventy five and then you go to texas and you closed down another church, but you're still living in a mansion when a resting how that works a guy has publicly and forcefully rejected any notion that his church is linked to the homicides, an investor
There's have continually said that currently did they have no suspects so, but it's an intriguing connection, the texas connect connection, for several reasons, and one is the day before the murders there, they seem Antonio new site. This w o a I dot. Com ran a star worry about a sex scandal involving a pastor name, rick hawkins hawkins is alive. to have used church funds to silence women either because he had had bears with them, or he has- actually harass them now, a poster on that. Eight using the name for what's right, left the following comment under the hockins story for what's right february: first, two thousand and eight posted. While someone should check out george a job,
in austin, texas, formerly of illinois, he has ties with hawkins and has been suspected of doing the same thing. The name of his churches, embassy, nation, church, formerly embassy, christian centre records, show for what's right, registered on that day and posted on that day and never commented again. There are so MT there. That believe that this for what's right, could actually have been. wrote a macfarlane, so I here's the thing captain. That's an interesting theory: it's an interesting thought there interesting one, that we shouldn't completely rule out here that that may be somebody was sent to kill rota. or one of these other people now. Regarding this particular theory, there is the cell phone our information, but really nothing much else.
right. So, while it sounds like a very juicy lead, impossible theory keep in mind, the police did investigate this and currently Today, there are stating that, while, through the course of ten years, they have had what they thought to be many good suspects, we sit here today. They are telling us they have no suspects so having estimated this telling us they have no suspects, it seems like it's been thoroughly investigated and possibly connection, but I do want to mention this before we conclude today. Another possible texas connection is that America's most wanted. Our arc of the great tv show they covered this case when it was fresh, well, after doing a segment on the lane bribing click case, they concluded that the killer sounded like
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Transcript generated on 2023-08-24.