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Hunting Humans /// Part 2 /// 498

2021-06-23 | 🔗

Hunting Humans /// Part 2 /// 498

Part 2 of 2


In the famous short story “The Most Dangerous Game” General Zaroff hunted shipwrecked sailors. The Zodiac killer used lover’s lanes in Vallejo, a lakeside park and the streets of San Francisco to shoot young couples. In the 70’s and 80’s someone was hunting the young women of Anchorage, Alaska. This week we explore the story of Alaska’s most cold blooded killer - Robert Hansen the Butcher Baker.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
The Welcome to true crime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing, thanks for listening, I'm your host nick in with me, as always, is a man with a reminder that the crime aid acronym stands for. Crime, reduces innocence makes everyone angry. I declare here is the captain
yeah. It's good to be seen as good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a friend today we got a little left over blue, very cobbler. That's grandma fingers pastry sour beer with blueberries. Of course, this is another good one from arcane ale works garage great for at a five bottle caps, and let's give some cheers, who are friends right here: first up big cheers and thank you to cheryl and kimberley british columbia, big, relax, trip to Victoria and virginia b and hears. Of course, we, like your jib too, Andrea white and saint Mary. County maryland and the big shots had jason and savannah. Here's a cheers to Konstantin owes an squirrel, cove, british columbia and, last but certainly not least, we have a double jeers, Dan and ruth and republican. city nebraska. Thank you all for helping us out with this week's beer
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The where we left off from yesterday then be have a young woman who was abducted and managed to escape her attacker when she tells police and detectives about what happened to her. She is able to give them detailed information that lead them to a man named Robert c Hansen. Do you know what the cs for it stands for? Oddly enough christian is Robert Hansen's middle name. Now Robert Hansen, the general thought, or what is known of this guy around anchorage Alaska he's a family man, a business man and he on the surface
everything, the investigating officers know about robber Hansen is telling them he wasn't their guy and when I say he wasn't there, guy meaning He might have been involved in this incident. Regarding Cindy paulson buddy but not their guy, for the other, missing women and for the bodies that are turning up robber Hansen is a family man and a successful local business man. He owned a bakery. and when the detective ran robber hansen through their computer system, which we need to point this out. It's very important to point out that at this time, in our time line that this very moment, the anchorage police were in the process of switching to a new system. So when they type in his information into their computer system, the system
tells them that Robert Hansen was clean. He didn't have any police record at all and when the detectives started to ask around. What they end up learning is the hanson was known an expert hunter, and in fact he held several very impressive hunting records. world records for bow and arrow hunting. In fact, he held the world's top mark for taking down a doll sheep by bow and arrow
This was in nineteen, seventy one for killing a ram with a forty two inch horns. He held the number two record for caribou the number twelve ranked in the world for mountain goat, the number thirteen ranked dall sheep and the thirty fourth ranked black bear, unlike one ninety seven for killing a big ass spider. So this is a hunter's paradise and he's a very skilled hunter while- and all we can assume is that their law enforcement system is not connecting them to others. Counties, especially during this time. So basically, what they're saying is he's clean once he moved to Alaska, he's clean and he's been a good upstanding citizen
Add the trouble. The short of it captain will be that they were in the process of setting up their computer system. It wasn't quite finished yet, and so some of the records had not made their way to that. some of the need again. They were not able to find them at that very moment when there look in this dude up whose vehicle in plain put him at the airfield of where this cindy Paulson escape from. So, quick background on Robert Hansen. He was born in iowa, nineteen, thirty, nine, his parents with whom he had a difficult relationship with were very strict and often made work long hours at the family owned bakery during his childhood, he was often bullied for his stutter and severe acne in school. He had no close friend.
after graduating high school in nineteen. Fifty seven he enlisted in the u s army reserve where he became a skilled marksman serving one weekend a month and working at the bakery, the rest of the time. Sometimes volunteering as an assistant drill sergeant at the police, the academy in the town of pocahontas. It was in the army reserves one weekend that Hanson lost his virginity to a working girl. Then in nineteen sixty he fell. in love with and married a local girl soon after hans burn down the school bus garage of the local high school yea. Well, as her reason to he ever does, did he ever say the reason, so This is a really kind of long and weird story, so he's working at the bank, a man now mind you by this time he graduated high school he's.
in the army, reserve and he's an adult and base our young adult. They must be about eighteen issue. Nineteen at this time at this point, is of officially in charge of making sent abundance gap. While this,
nineteen sixty. So he would be twenty one he's actually a couple of years, older than what I thought he was he's, a he's working for mom and dad at the bakery. And so when you think about like these local mom and pop shops, you have a lot of teenagers that tend to work these jobs bright, so he's working with a couple of kids that are still at the high school they're, still active in the high school, seventeen and eighteen ish, and he is kind of because he's older than these guys. They think of him differently much differently than what his classmates thought of robert when he was attending high school right. His classmates thought of him as a giant pimple well and at the bakery he's a bit of a somebody right. He's the owner son he's an adult he's gone off to the army reserve. He has life experiences he's a part time.
durham sergeant at this police academy, yes analyses Mister temple had so he kind of creates this little clan amongst the young men that work there. Sixteen seventeen eighteen year old boys, you know, all very rebellious, want to raise a little hell. He convinces them a like. We could go out and do some stuff in this little town in iowa, where there is nothing to do, we know we could go out and shoot at things shoot at stop signs. We can set things on fire, there's ways that we can have fun, be rebellious and you know cause problems yet or golf some goats. So he convinces a couple of the guys at work there at this bakery that you know what let's get together and we'll stake some places out and we can do the
this or that or the other thing check out some goats, a couple of the guys are smart enough to weasel their way out of these arranged hangouts that are, after hours, there's smart enough to know hey. If we end up doing something bad, it could be bad for me, so I'm not going to put myself in this situation, one the key and one of the boys that he convinced to go with them. They go to this garage that houses the buses that drive the kids to school. So this is school property, And he decides robber hansen decides to set fire to the building. Now there's some conflicting stories here, obviously, because we have to people that went there and they both have a somewhat different story of what happened, but after the building burnt down and the the vehicles inside were practically destroyed as well. I mean this is a big deal with a lot of damage, a lot of a lot of cost involved,
and this damage well, because these other guys are teenagers. But what are they do? They they run their mouth You know there are parties. Are there at school? Telling people hey, I know who did this or I was involved or I was almost involved and so they're kind of town. This way to these other people of what happened. The police and the school system really had no clue. it happened other than they knew that it was not an accident than it was set, it was an arson. Well, worth search to get around town, the robber handsome. involved in this and the kid that was with on the night that they set the fire. He becomes a witness and testifies against Robert Hansen, so in court speak Robert Hansen, willfully and maliciously set fire to a building. This occurred in iowa in nineteen sixty one for this he gets a three year sentence,
Prison. Remember, he's already married at this time. His wife decides to stick with him because she believes going off of what birds telling her and everyone else hey this group of kids did it they're trying to blame it on me if somebody's willing to testify against me, I'm taking the fall for these guys Bryan, his family believes him and his wife believes he's innocent, but eventually he ends up confessing to her and to his mom and dad. This is why so he's serving out that three year prison sentence while and also you know the family business he's set to make some do well. You asked why its believed that hansen burnt down the building in retaliation for his unhappy high school years, or it was because he hated the schools superintendent, who, just so happens, to be good friends with his father
Hansen's father and a regular customer, the family bakery either way pants. It ends up, sir, in twenty three months in a reform, its ory and then is released and then successfully completed, rule one year later, so he got out early for this arson that he committed bright in nineteen sixty three, he remarried, because what happens is once he confessed to his wife and to his parents. She believing him this whole time now she Not only did he said fire? Not only is he and arsenic, but he's manage to lie. me for over a year now, want anything to do with him. Those two split up so after he gets out nineteen sixty three. He gets married again to a woman. whom he had two children with a girl and a boy in nineteen, sixty seven, the hands.
Family afore, move to anchorage alaska now and anchorage alaska. This is reported the johansson was well liked by the people that knew him and following His father's footsteps, Hansen opened a bakery, and the business was a success now handsome always had a hobby of target shooting and was pretty skilled at this, and he was always somewhat: a casual hunter back in iowa, but alaska is a sportsman's paradise, so Robert Hansen became an avid hunter while just to be clear, it's spelled h a n s, e n, not as so when, like the famous but multiple talented group, handsome dub
Abdou up either way. It makes me think of that smoke and we need to have their beer on the show called uhm hops. A funny side thing was, I was at the grocery last week in that song came on. And I don't care wedding, but if it s not my cup of tea, that that you know their style music, but that song regardless puts me in a fantastic move Every time I hear it, that was their style music. When they were younger there they've got they gotten much better. If you haven't listen to new hansen, you, you might be surprised. I've been trying hard about hansen for almost five hundred episode, one in a last year, as we already pointed out, he becomes an avid hunter breaking several hunting record setting several hunting records, which we already listed some of his ranked records. But when the detective started asking other detectives because keep it might still. At this point he's looking at this guy on this guy's got a clean rap sheet, all
the sun now the middle nowhere. This guy picks up of a woman at gunpoint, handcuff sir, and does all these horrible things tour? We didn't go in detail and I didn't think it was necessary, but it was a lengthy assault that he committed on this woman. According to what she's telling the detective it's gone. Yeah. You don't just go from being up a nice a family, man, business man, it's a brutal rape one yeah, one day to being a monster the next. So he starts asking the other detectors like hey what here and about this guy, and what I can see on paper is an adding up where there was a hammer involve about robber, handsome and he's at some point when he's talking to these old, skilled season detectives that have been around for a long time. He starting to get laid stories about hansen's hunting records and more stories about hansen's police record right,
because we said that, for whatever reason those records had made their way to their now computerized system bright, one detective that he asked really referred to him as bad bob hansen. They care men who jerk off go so the records having not been fully transferred yet tell a very different story about this family man. We. Successful baker. We already mentioned this arson fire okay, but then we I have a story out of nineteen, seventy two or seventy three, where robber Hansen got into some bad trouble. This was for two separate incidents, one for a time, to rape, a housewife and he was also caught for raping a sex worker. Now it's a little, convoluted, but but things seem to fall apart pretty quickly and both of these cases, as they were true
to charge Robert hansen with these two different crimes my understanding captain. They are very different crimes, especially the housewife crime, because this is a weird situation, and this be his. If you want to use some air quotes here, his first sexual attack, we do not know for sure but in this situation he stops off at this woman's house and he says that he needs to use her phone for whatever reason that he that he gives her. and I believe she allows him to use the phone and then leaves without incident. He comes back to her place. Like thirty it's later yo, I think the ruse was that you know, because he heads a big pimple as that he convinced her, that a bee stung his face, and that's why his face looked like that, so he needed a call
The hospital, the using the phone ruse might be to make sure that she's alone in the house yeah or that, and so he comes back thirty minutes later, knocks on the door. She opens up bumi sticking a gun in her face and he's attempting to attack her and per whatever ends up going down again those both. stories are a little convoluted, but what we end up, at the end, result turns out to be that they dropped the rape charge and then reduce the attempted rape charge to an assault charge which run Hanson plead guilty to so the short of it is somehow this all got reduced and now Robert Hansen, who has two incidents it to him being a violent sexual offender.
He's now only serving six months in prison. That's because the system tends not to believe females. So this ends up being a conviction for assault with a dangerous weapon. That's bullshit! It was supposed to be a five year. Sentence, so they didn't let him off easy on the sentence itself, but it was a five, sends with a recommendation that Hansen receive psychiatric treatment. It was after the six months after serving six months that he was transferred to a halfway house and placed on it work release program. One year later, Hansen was released on parole and parole was terminated after approximately three years neck in two two big crimes that he basically gets. A slap on the wrist yeah, while the victims are probably traumatized for the rest, their frickin lives. Now remember this required him to receive psychiatric treatment during his time in prison,
and so during this psychiatric treatment, the court ordered psychiatric treatment, What we learn is this was this was carried out by a doctor J Landon stated the robber hansen suffered from a dissociated mental illness and suggested that Robert Hansen's criminal activity stemmed from that illness and stated that Hansen's type of disorder was difficult to treat successfully. But a subsequent letter from doktor Alan Parker filed eight months later indicated hansen, had made sufficient improvement through therapy to warrant his release on pearl unbelievable. So you have one doktor saying this: guy's got some issues that we find, are going to be very difficult to treat successfully.
in another doctor saying at a later date he's been treated successfully yeah we can send them out to parole. I fixed them now, there's one thing that is left out of that little statement that that's. Actually these are statements. What I just read were found there from court documents. What wasn't in those court documents is a statement that he made during the course of this psychiatric evaluation, where he told the doctor that during his teenage years then of course, I think, he's being a little deceptive here, but he says during his teenage years he he often fans sized about doing all sorts of harmful things to girls and women who rejected him. He seems stable. That's not the end of his police sheet here, captain because
One thousand eight hundred and seventy seven robert Hansen stole a chainsaw from a store in anchorage for this. Robert Hanssen entered a plea of guilty to larceny in a building he was sentenced to five years' incarceration with the provision that he be eligible for parole. at the earliest possible date and that he received psychiatric therapy to the case. His transition back into the community now hold on a sec as one point, this assault with a deadly weapon five years, stealing a chainsaw five years. You can't even begin to compare those crimes correct and keep in mind, that been had the the theft been his first charge, you know the first time breaking the law. He would have got a lot less for that. He brought would have got probation One year max, but because he had had multiple offences, and you know that
They were aware of that they're going to give him the five years for that theft charge. They should do shock therapy on his own way that that I want to go through that that theft charge, because we have some detailed information on how that went down based off of the court records. So this took place while Hanson was shopping and an anchorage department store when a store security guard observed robber, acting suspiciously in the stores sporting goods section, he watched robert. Place in old sales, receive on a chainsaw box and leave it leave the store with it. The guard apprehended robber in the parking lot robber Hansen described his thoughts, leading up to the shoplifting as follows: quote I looked at them and remembered
what five weeks previous my father and I had been cutting wood for our fireplace in his remarking three or four times how much he would like to have one meaning a saw. My folks live in oregon and were visiting us for four weeks He wanted us soul to use when he and my mother go camping along the coast. I told my father that he would be more than welcome to take mine, but he refused, I thought of this and all the presents my parents had given me through the years and how wonderful it would be if I could give him a saw for christmas. I also of course about my life. At that time, my wife and I had just bought this summer, a new home and put everything we ve had. save for more than nine years into that home. I guess many, many just went through my mind. As I looked at the salts, I wanted almost more than anything to please my father.
Could just imagine the expression on his face on christmas day. If I could give him that's all, I walked around the store. Some more and out the front door outside a man had just had a heart attack. The police fire department. Paramedics were there to give him treatment. My father is six the nine years old and has had one heart attack and is very overweight. Again I thought of the chainsaw and how pleased he would be to receive it at christmas. I walked back into the store. then to the souls, I thought there was a young man watching me, but then he seemed to disappear. On the one box that I picked up, there was a sales receipt. I guess this is when I first really seriously thought
taking the saw it seemed like nobody would know if I paid for the saw or not if they saw a sales receipt on the box. I took the saw and walked out the door, and I was apprehended and arrest I know what I did was wrong and I am very sorry for doing so. Hence it was thirty, seven years old at the time of the offence and he had children he's married. His family has his bakery. He successful. he could afford to buy his father a saw, as I say, not successful enough to buy a, maybe not, but the way I see it, captain is I'm seeing a guy who is manipulating those around him ways when liar right when he's caught when he's innocent were, ever he's a man who cheats and he's alive when he was caught,
for burning down the building. He was able to convince his parents. and his wife hey, I'm just the fall guy. Really have anything to do with its convince him so much so that once they put him behind bars, they still believed him. Now he's standing in front of a judge at thirty seven, given him sad story about his fathers and bad health and why A miracle it would be if I could just give my father this one gift on christmas morning, like he's tiny I am from charles dickens, christmas carol or something nets is too bad. He can give your dad and new son christian. So what we see here, I believe, is a guy trying to tell this and sell this sad story to a judge. The judge didn't believe it and that's why he ends up getting.
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The we're back cheers and that's no lie. We switched over to some uma hops hm tasty. Thank you, Hansen brothers. This good was going to say you know they're they're kind of similar to us because they have they have a garage themselves. I believe their company's got three door garage or something three car garage or something like that site. I was gonna laugh because I think most people on garages, but what do I know so? Well, change saw right during this during this prison sentence.
It ends up getting reduced and he doesn't have to spend the full five years. But what ends up happening here? We did Did you know he has to undergo another psychiatric evaluation during this time and is when Robert Hansen is diagnosed with bipolar disorder and, of course we gotta keep in mind. This does not mean what we're going to end up learning about him. That's not typical of bipolar disorder and also given the timeframe we're talking about the seventies, so a lot has changed in. Fortunately, we know more about things like this now than we did back
and at the time he was prescribed lithium, which I dont know. If that still something that they hand out, I don't I don't know much about it. He wasn't required by law to actually take it, but this will have. This will be interesting because we said that he owned a plain right. He owned that plain that the victim lead, the officers to at the airfield right. So he owns this plane, but he was denied a license due to this medication that he was prescribed again. No one knows if he was actually taking the medication. I couldn't find anybody to say either way if he was actually taking it, but the way that he comes about buying this plane. Is pretty interesting because in the early nineteen eighties robber Hansen reported a burglary at his home. He says it
Thirteen thousand dollars worth of items were stolen from his family's home. It wasn't too long after this salon chain saws that he purchased the piper super cub bush playing a very, very tiny plane. So the thought is: maybe he used this money there receive from the insurance policy on the burglary to his home to buy the plank. That's a big part of the store. So now we're going back to the investigation. It is he responsible. We have this sex worker that we found in handcuffs a truck driver found her. Is he responsible for this he's saying? No, you saying I don't know her, never seen her
For an here. I believe he has our by as well yeah. He has two alibis, so this makes it very difficult for the police, because, if we're gonna take this thing in front of a judge and say that this guy abducted in and assaulted this woman, but she escaped well. If you put this thing in front of a judge or even a jury of his peers, you run the risk of god, Well, it's this working girl's word against this successful family man businessman who said If he doesn't even know her, never met her and he's got two other people that are considered to be good, upstanding citizens that are saying well, he couldn't have done that because he with us at night. The police are smarter than that, though. They know how things work and, even though the
can't bring it in front of a judge. It they're going to still work on Robert Hansen and so they're going to question him. They want him to slip up. They were him to give them information that they can work with to build a case against him at same time while they haven't officially filed any charges against him for the attack for the rape and the abduction of Cindy Paulson. Another body turns up this is a couple months later, and this is paula. things body turns up, showed the police are really concern. the number one that they got, this violent guy out that they believe or one hundred percent, to be guilty of what Cindy Paulson said. This guy did there's too much evidence then leading them to him. The problem is the alibi and
Hansen doesn't really admit anything when they first interview him in fact he's a little bit rude. When detective fluffy ask him about the attack in their sexual assault. Hansen says the floaty. You can't really rape a prostitute. Can you afloat the fires right back and says this state. You can't so they're. Looking at this guy forming that stay, my right there show to what kind of respect he has for women well, in particular the victim here in this case right and me Maybe the other victims at your seeing as well the missing women and the bodies that are turning up. So what we have here captain more bodies, turning up a guy, that's looking really good and you got a couple detectives. It are saying you know up. Look at this guy's past. He was a violent sexual offender before that's what he still is today. We believe he objected, raped and was going to,
El Cindy paulson, but she was able to get away. We think he's responsible for a lot of these other once the other thing to that made Robert Hansen. Interesting to them, is it he owned a plane because at least one or two of the bodies were described We went through those articles described as inaccessible in an area that was inaccessible. However, if you had a plane- those areas were excessive, all right by the also thing about this way. Thus he hated running. Ok, yes, we know that she's a sex work. But parts of her story line up, I went to this guy's house. Then we went to a plane. This is the guy and he has those items now- you have these two alibis. So that's when Thus he isn't gonna go hey somebody's line sooner. We I crack down on somebody and, like I said her story, is making some sense. So they're gonna go after him
alibi well and keep in mind too. I mean yeah that when they find her when police find her, she was still handcuffed. She was still yeah the scene to me is like the end of texas, chainsaw massacre, the first one where she runs out, road and she's screaming and yelling, and comes across that semi truck driver The problem, though, too then becomes people. Familiar with cases such as this one? Well, not such as this one, but such as the cindy paulson case of her escape. Let's say there are plenty dozens, hundreds, thousands of cases where, or a dancer or a working girl gets beat up by a boyfriend or a pimp, and blames it on someone else. That happens happens all the time. Police. Don't suspect that here, but that's where it could easily go to in the minds of people that are
tasked with the duty of determining robber, Hansen's guilty or not re guilt or not, and you have these other people that are saying well. He could not because he was with us at night we'll get into that in a minute, but what we're going to have here is very interesting because the police decide well, let's build a case, can't strapper handsome he's our guy. If we all think that he's our guy, let surveillance and let's watch him, let's build a case against him. But what do we need to do? Let's forget about the the rape and the abduction as far as any paulson concerned, we can always circle back to that. Let's try to connect him to the murdered victims or to any of the missing women. So let's build our case against him. what one thing that they do. Is they reach out to the fbi and quantico and they actually didn't if they were going to have any good result with this, they just made a simple phone call and said: hey This is what's happening here in anchorage
These women missing turn up dead. This is how they are found By the way we got a guy that we like for this roy These are what who we reference in the trailer? Was the man the picked up the phone, the fbi agent, to pick up the phone? He tells the officer the detective says? Don't tell me any more. I don't want to know who your guys tell me about the victims and how your finding them more hazel would starts to shoot off back any I bet you. Your guy is like this, and I bet you he does this and he's about this age, and this is where he lives, he's probably married he's, probably successful he's probably known in the community, he's telling them everything? that. They already know to be true about robber Hansen. Hazel would says you know what take this to the local fbi, get them to sign off on it and we will send you some agents, okay, so this next part is
from the criminal minds, fandom page, which is an odd and unexpected source for this week's case, but turned out to be a very good source the information is real, good and laid out nicely. So I was happy to find it there's a paragraph that says the alaskan Thus, gaiters began looking into hansen again an contacted. The fbi who sent in their profile is. This was according to the site here. Captain says John Douglas, but some sources say it was roy hazel what their profile that the killer would have low self esteem, a history of rejection by women and be an experience hunter. They also correctly predicted that he would take souvenirs from his victims and would have a stutter So, let's examine this for a bit and clear up any of the douglas versus hazel would bit as well for the record. The phantom page is citing sources, so they don't have
anything wrong. They are just simply citing other sources right, so they We did both, which I think is very responsible. They say it was either Roy hazelwood or john douglas that helped the anchorage police and the state, police or alaska state police. With this case yeah, I agree, it's good that they put both of those in there. So first off anyone that has listened to the show. For long period time. No, that John douglas enrolling hazel would are the two fbi agents that we have talked about more than any others by far here is a word was my make them in high school we have referenced quoted unexplored. Their works countless times They are both oh geez. When it comes to the fbi's bs you they work too, other and relied on each other's work at time and expertise plenty as have we I can see. Why
This part is confusing and the short answer is because they both worked on the case. So it makes sense that you would see Douglas's, name and or Roy hazelwood's name The other truth about the fbi's profile is that, in this case, the The ice was only brought in after local law enforcement already identified, who they believe to be the killer, which is pretty rare right that, in this case, the alaska state, troopers and the anchorage police pretty much new or had that gut feeling. The robber Hansen was the one that was killing again. In fact, they were calling him bad bob Hansen, but they needed some experts to help them secure a search warrant for bad bob. This would be to search his
from his plane and his three vehicles that he owned at the time so fbi agents, John douglas in Jim horn, were sent from quantico out to anchorage to assist The alaskan authorities attempted on more than one occasion to get a search warrant for hanson but needed or a munificent as the d a wanted to make sure that the court's wouldn't find that the police were going on a fishing expedition right, saying: hey. We think this guy. killed all these people, we're just going to go in and toss his house and searched the plane and hope to find stuff that lead us to building a case against him ray. So john douglas and Jim horn shipped out to anchorage brought in to put together a cyclist
I call 'em behavioral profile of the offender. While one of the things I thing about Hansen is such a t, ball shot. You don't put. The ball on the tee and hit out of the park is where we know that he's a hunter and that he collects trophies and he collects parts of the animals as trophies. So if he's killing multiple women, why wouldn't he keep souvenirs or trophies of those kills as well, Well in really what they wanted was to say we brought in these outside experts who, on their own, put together their own. illogical profile of who the offender would be, what his behaviors would be personality would be, and then we can take that say you know what they created this independently. We're telling the judge hey! Look this man! is Robert handsome. This matches the guy that
in trying to go after and we can't get a search warrant for and so once they have that they also want something else from the fbi. These guys have worked these type of cereal cases, so these guys can put together a list for them a very specific items that they need to include on their search warrant when they go looking for items at his home, so in All that was really the main job of John douglas and Jim horn to put together the search warrant, information items. They were searching for an the profile on this aspect that would commit these types of crops this all works and the diego's for the search warrant judge grants the searches they're going to go hunting, let's say at Robert Hansen's house now
where Roy hazelwood comes back into play. Not only did he answer the call and encourage the local authorities to pursue the f b, I to get involved was at some point during this case, John douglas he's hospitalized, and this is for quite some time and place during the robert hansen case Douglas nearly died from stress- and you text me a couple weeks ago and said: hey I'm seeing stuff saying that they're working on season, three of mine hunter, look at the time frame, We're talking about here, with line up with where they kind of left off on season two? They might start working the handsome case and season three and we'll see Douglas his iron, her in the hospital at some point there again, so does This is nearly down for the count. So,
a hazel wood is sent in to cover for douglas, and what he's going to do is he's going to prepare detectives. It will be interviewing Robert Hansen after his arrest. He just want to be telling them hey. These are the tips and things that you can use to try to get a confession from him or if you can't get him to willingly confess here's some tactics that you can use to get him to slip up, and give you information that you need unwillingly captain before move on to. While we're passing around some credit. We need to make sure that we give a big batch of it to alaska state, trooper, detective, Glenn, floaty and anchorage pd officer greg baker. Both floaty and baker were extremely determinate it to catch. Whoever was that was killing these women and burying them out in the woods determine these
where the guys is suspected Hansen was the right guy when others were dumb. Dismissing him and aid in treating victims alive or otherwise any differently than they would any other citizen of the community here what they wanted to do captain- and this is genius because they're like you, know what, if we can find items that are rape and assault victim, says she saw in this man's house the gun that he used on her and other items that he used on her. That's going to be enough for us to really take this to the next level. The next level is put this case in front of a grand jury. That's where those false alibis will come back in a play. And we'll circle back to that. But the other thing that they wanted to do detectives aren't stupid. They see that this guy he filed this in
the claim for thirteen thousand dollars and then in pretty quick turnaround, buys an airplane. Ah, okay! Well, when you submit your report to the insurance company You have to submit an itemized list of everything that was stolen from your property, now have an abduction and rape victim who says I was in the basement and she's describing items that he had put on that list of things that were stolen from his home. So now you have an insurance fraud charge that you can bring against the sky When you have trouble convincing a room of people that this man is a serial killer. Who's killed dozens of women. What what is the best thing? for you time. Time will be on your side, but you're afraid he will be killing.
Other women in the process or could be destroying evidence in the process. So if we can lock this dude up on anything, the insurance fraud charge, the rape charge the abduction charge. Let's get him on that, put his ass I'm bars and build a case against him. While we have him locked up sure enough, they get into his home, they start seeing things it. He says, were stolen from his house that he received insurance money for yeah. I mean this does as a criminal on multiple levels. It doesn't really care for him bays concern. Other When is that make sure that he's getting ahead? The thing they really wanted to find was that two hundred and twenty three ruger mini fourteen, which is the gun that they found the shell casings near a couple of the buried bodies. So they were hoping to find that in this search
They would eventually find it and the other thing that comes about is now they are taking this case to a grand jury. So they can go back to those two guys who say I was with Robert Hansen that night he couldn't of abducted and rate this woman, and they can say you know what you told us that story now. Here's your subpoena you go tell it to a grand jury and if later we can prove that you are lying. You will be doing time yourself well how quickly they change their stories. Neither of those men were with Robert Hansen that night liars bonfires, I want to say that they got a couple search warrants and look through things and didn't find anything. And then they went got a couple different search warrants and went back because they didn't find anything like to seek out in the open. I think they were coming up empty most of the time
and then they found like some kind of hidden area in his attics or something like that. Well, your your exactly right now, but it's a little confusing because think about the search warrants in general. They are seeking items that would be involved in different charges related to different incidents, things it took at different times, so some of the items they are finding out in the open, these would be the items that he claimed or stole during the burglary, the house burglary, because he's he's very fond of his trophies is hunting trophies and a lot of the valuable items that he says were stolen from his home or in fact, those hunting trophies that he's got mounted to the wall. so not only were they out in the open they were on display and he was proud to show them off. So they find those right away. But all that is going to get you in court is a charge for this insurance fraud. They want charges of murder, rape and abduction
and your exactly right there not finding the guns in the talks. Your weapons or dirty. shovels or anything like that out in the open that would lead To be able to bring forward those types of charges, what they end up, finding it, It's a weird situation, because in its really great that roy hazel wood was able to kind of school these detectives in and prosecutors and how they should be communicating and talking in interviewing robber hansen, because what they do is they bring him in for interrogation at the same time that they are searching his home, his property and his vehicles was time to bring a man, because he who know that they're searching so he's going to be constantly worried the whole time that they're asking questions. What are they finding? and the starter- and I don't want peace,
You email me, I'm don't know the science of any of this, but in this situation, what they're going with is it the man stutter seems to be directly related to how nervous he gets how out of control a situation gets for him and when he's uncomfortable, when he arrests. When the stakes are high, he stutters he can't control himself. He reacts And so what they wanted is just what you said: captain let him know, researching his properties. Let's bring him in. Let's question him at the same time, while that the heat is already cranked up to ten and what they get are some information because, as you said, they're turning up empty, ended with the items that would lead them to the more severe charges. This the charges that there really they really care about. They don't really care about the insurance fraud other the jam em up long enough to bring these other charges they end up finding through some of his own words
Albert Hansen's own words that he has a false wall at some at some place in his home. might have been, the basement might have been, the attic might have been both and inside of that far while he had hid things like guns, it used in things it. He had used to torture some of these women. They also found in aviation map, which was really interesting because it had several Things marked on this map and I believe it was about twenty one or twenty, or so things marked on the map Having found this? They already know where some of the bodies were recovered, the bodies that they covered are matching up with some of the marks that Robert Hansen made on this map. They know Robert Hansen made these marks on this map because he said he told him where to find the map and define these other items there in the false walls, the gun they were looking for. Is this to twenty
three ruger mini fourteen that they know was used to kill a couple of the victims. They didn't find it in any of the properties that they were searching because it was in his boat. which was, in fact on his property, but they didn't have a search warrant for the boat this, so that's where they had to go back and get a search warrant for the boat. I couldn't afford to anything being found in the boat to be thrown out of court at a later date. So this shit turd had a plane and a boat, yeah, but keep in mind it is alaska. So, like plain, ownership is a lot more common there. An breeze, smaller planes and small as a small boat was like a yacht. Now is still shattered in the end when they fine, find the gun and run ballistics. They are able to
come back and tell him, you know what this gun europe, which was his prized gun, which, oddly enough the profile or said he would have this very close relationship with the them. weapon, and he would value this over many many other items in his possession. He would treat it with a certain high intensity level of care when they said to him. Look: we've we've connected the bullets from your favorite gun to four of the victims. That's when they get a confession from. Were handsome, and it's a pretty long one but I've. you did. And the short of it is basically he. And that women that work, the streets, women, that work is dancers, they're, not good. People and so it didn't really matter that he killed them that he should be allowed.
do whatever he wanted with them, because they, the same as you and I or everybody else, so they. I have the same rights as he does. Oddly, if he doesn't consider himself to be a bad person or didn't at the time of his arrest, which is completely bizarre. Giving his police record and what he was out doing all those years. Yeah is fixed with therapy and he would end up playing guilty
to this end. The court of law, an he ended up, receiving a life sentence plus four hundred and sixty one years, so he was never going to get out and then part of that plea. Bargain now alaska does not have the death penalty, so that was never going to be an issue, but part of that plea. Bargain was he was going to have to tell the officers where they could expect to find the remaining victims, but may he would never be charged with those crimes. He could only be charged with the four murders correct that he was confessing to charged with four murders convicted of four murders. One of them is including Annie, who's, never been identified. He doesn't know who she was or claims that he doesn't know who she was
and he was also charged and convicted of the insurance fraud, as well as the abduction and assault on Cindy Paulson. So that's how you get a life sentence, plus four hundred and sixty one years he confessed to seventeen murders. Overall, they recovered all of those bodies. There still are some bodies that have not been recovered and I'm getting a little confused. I shouldn't say they recovered all of the seventeen police below that he's probably responsible for twenty one or more murders and they say did the reason why he wouldn't confess to some of the other murders goes back to his original confession: some of the women weren't working at a show bar or war working the streets and therefore
for whatever reason we've gone through this time and time again with the serial killers. Their confessions don't always make a lot of sense. Sometimes they make up higher numbers. Sometimes they really downplay and I'd also say possibly in this case there would be victims closer to the age of maybe twelve to fourteen a lot of times. You'll see serial killers not willing to at the dick. They killed a child yeah. The missing women that they have that are still outstanding to this date, are of the age range of the the previous victims. That we've already discussed. Part of that, you wonder if they were just left out in the open or tossed into the river, which is a little bizarre that he didn't that time and time again these other crimes, he was not willing to confess to those, for whatever reason, detectors
also very concerned and remember we saw this in the bt, keep the bt k case as well. How can you have this serial killer operating for years and years and years living with his family Nobody else knows about what he's out doing and so thing that they had to do was interview his wife extensively, not telling her what they're going to charge him with, because they wanted to be able to determine if she had any clue of what old bad bob hansen was up to what they discovered is that she traveled a lot. She was a good person. She had no clue of what he was doing. He was doing almost all of this. While she was away on travel with, the kids, in fact, Are these murders he called them his summertime projects, which she would be out
traveling for the summer. I believe she was a teacher or something and had the summers off, but She also even tried to help the police once she was aware of what he was guilty of once he confessed. She even helped them try to locate some more of his items he may have concealed somewhere or buried on their properties. So she was just another victim in this long story of Robert Hanssen, but this guy again he's in he's beyond the monster, because not only was he raping these individuals to take it individual out and give them a headstart here. I'll give you a knife- or maybe I don't give you a knife- may barely have you handcuffed? Maybe I take the handcuffs off, but I'm going to hunt you down like an animal,
that's what they really should have done. They should have got him to confess, and then they should have said hey by the way. We're going to take you out to the field where we found a body and they should have just said: hey yo Robert were and give you a little head start and I will be for you. Well, that's one thing that they were able to determine captain was in the earlier murders. He was killing the victims elsewhere, and then bringing them to the burial sites in the later murders he's all. Apt up in in love with this hunting. It's like well, why not combine the couple things that I loved the most by abduct this woman, a lot of the physical attacks, the the rapes and such sexual assaults took place at his home and then the the rule of law. I take these women to cabin out in the middle of nowhere. That's he's has put them in a plane, so
can lay in that thing and go hunt them out in the wilderness and then buried them where he kills them, and I want to be very clear about this. We told this story in the trailer about John if you were able to eat, him for three days, get away from him and his hunting dogs that he would set you free and he gave them a knife, in some food in a three hour head start. That's not the case with Robert Hanssen know he's he's hunting women who he lets out of his airplane, who in many cases, are naked, still handcuffed and sometimes even blindfolded. So it's not like. This guy was giving them any type of fair situation at all to to get free. He was setting up a system and stacking the deck against them. So.
He could hunt them for fun with no worry that they were going to get away sickening exactly, and I think some of the words from the trial really sum up hands in the best, and this is from the closing statements before he was sentenced to that lengthy prison sense, and this is from the prosecuting attorneys and they're talking about the victims and Robert Hansen, and they say seventeen may not. Be the end of it, meaning there could be more victims. We feel from what we've learned that there might be more bodies out there and then the prosecutor It's Robert Hansen and says before you sits a monster Stream, aberration of a human being who has walked amongst us, not even wife of twenty years, had any inkling of his dark evil side. His crimes, numb the mind,
alaska serial killer, Robert Hansen, who killed as is twenty one? Women, maybe more died around one hundred and thirty, a dot m august, 21st, two thousand and fourteen at an anchorage hospital. The cause of death appear to be that he died of natural causes, glenflow thee, a retired alaska, state trooper who was instrumental in since one thousand nine hundred and eighty four capture said quote on this day. We should only remember his many victims and all of their families, and my heart goes out to all of them. As far as hanson is concerned, this world is better,
Thank you so much friend for joining us here again in the garage and get it right up in your year. If you need more true crime garage check out, our other show, our bonus show called off the record. If you're nasty, and that's on stage or premium colonel. Do we having recommended reading this week this week? We recommending death on ocean boulevard inside the core nano mansion case by caitlin? Rather, this is perfect timing as well to recommend this book because this cases coming up on the ten year marker now. This, unfortunately, is one of those true crime, mysteries was it murder
was it suicide rebecca's. The house family believes she was murdered. As investigators found conflicting evidence of foul play in this book, author Caitlin Rother explores all the theories that point to foul play and brings out some new details about the case check out death on ocean boulevard find that title and many many more on our recommended page at true crime, garage dot, com, again, friends, who can't thank you enough for John,
it is here every week in the garage and until next week be good behind and don't let em.
Transcript generated on 2022-07-14.