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in new orleans, twenty twelve bruce catch. Here I drove to an address some one had given him that didn't exist. Ass he stood in the parking lot were the address. Should have been, he was shot and killed. I'm deal. You d embryo join me for the newest season of counter clock, as I dive into the motive behind bruces murder and a series of events that have never been fully investigated until now. Binge all fourteen episodes of counter clock season, five, wherever you listen to pod, casts. The

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Welcome to the true crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing, thanks for listening, I'm your host nick and with me is a guy. That knows that you never go against the family, no matter whose family it is. He is the captain. Okay, I'm reload, and it's good to be seen, and it's good to see you. Today we are drinking green diamonds by other half brewing in beautiful brooklyn new york, green diamonds is an imperial. I p, a brewed with golden promise. Malt and lots of australian galaxy hops shine bright, like a diamond garage grade, four out of five bottle caps. Green diamonds was brought to us by some of our special shiny diamonds and the true crime garage army. First up we have beauty in the breed from chandler arizona. Next we go to green bay, wisconsin and say thanks to b, K b cases loved the show, and I love how nick doesn't seem to miss a beat. Even when the captain goes on a rant and oh yeah, I loved the captain's rants too. Next we have anthony Yeoh Anthony from Bronxville new york yo at the knee. We also have traveling hillary, who says she's always listening while traveling right now, she's listening to us in angola, safe travels Hillary, that's actually Hillary Clinton, their captain. I don't know if you know but she's a big big fan, let's go close to home and say thanks to mackenzie from Columbus, ohio and last but not least, thank you to ryan in Covington, Kentucky ryan says you guys kick ass, teach t c g is the best podcast out there and, if you'd like to buy a round for the show, you can do so at true crime garage dot com and like always, we like lg and for all you beer drinkers out there. If you want to follow me, you can do so on untapped. That's an app people check me out at true crime garage and for all social media. You can follow snapchat instagram facebook. All that stuff

at true crime garage, that's another, the business captain, everybody gathered round grab a chair grab a beer and let's talk some true crime. The

This is true crime garage, and this is the case of Joseph colombo, the roger S, Julia olds, for notorious individuals go. This was extremely matched with a suitable shelter. The chocolate bar was regarded by many as an outstanding citizen and family man. There were only three flower filled: cars, the cashier didn't look to be horribly expensive and no major recognizable or organized crime figures came to pay. Their last respects the dapper donald, the one caused by the late joe, the olive oil, the great number of politicians at the rally at which columbo was shot, including at least one congressman, at least one member of the state legislature. I didn't see any of those people today. The mourners attended the service and the half empty church, from which cameras were bought f b. I agents in plainclothes police were present when colombo, his wife, four sons and one daughter as well as his parents, arrived at him. Forty nine, the actual age of the nazca calabro, died monday at age, fifty four able to virtually paralyze in a semi coma since he was shot down at the mentality of the american civil rights league rally at columbus circle in nineteen. Seventy one charlie was a family man. When I was a lot younger, I was about ten years old, my father used to come home, sometimes with turkeys and Mr Columbo had given them to him from the atlantic with Stacy Moskowitz the night he was killed by David Berkowitz and always left almost blinded by the so called son of sam, didn't know columbo but came to the church today with a friend who did what he was doing, the things for the time people was kosher, the mass of resurrection was contracted by far the lowest chicken former city councilman from east hall. He spotted me after the service and as the funeral entourage was passing the home of colombo sr on the way to the cemetery. The media tell us summarize what you said at the service just call Joe colombo. A model for the italian american cause. A model for the italian american cause

the last night at the newburgh new york hospital, almost seven years after he was shot down in Columbus circle. It's believed that his shooting was arranged by crazy, Joe Gallo himself. A year later, was ventilated by gunfire that proved his mortality. More on the colombo story, Joe calabro regarded himself as a good family man used to hoot at allegations. He was involved in hijacking blonde jogging policy as bookmaking and other various enterprises. The short stocky balding dapper don was a native of brooklyn and as last home there was this private house of the Dyker beach section of which the columbo was moved about two years after he was cuts down in the prime of life at the age of fifty four

It happened on a june day in nineteen, seventy one. This is where it happened. Thousands of people were already at the rally. Many more were on their way. Many politicians were on the stand. Suddenly there was a series of shots and colombo said at least three times a month later said, was grabbed and then shot killed as a place called follower

limbaugh was regarded as really being on his way up at nineteen. Sixty three. When Carlo gambino, the boss of bosses, died a natural death named him to take over the family, which had been run by Joe profit after the olive oil king died. It's also a natural cause. Colombo reportedly ran list real estate business, where nobody would speak with me today outside in the gutter. A husky young man advised me to get the hell out of here. I leave that dead rest in peace. If you know what's good for you, if you know what's good for you, jerome, Johnson, the man who shot colombo was fully. Why police to be a hired gun, got the contract, probably gallo gang.

John colombo, that tested the word mafia, and he once said. I don't know what they're talking about when they talk about the mafia. I do have a family matter for the italian american cause, the guy who was Joe colombo. Joe colombo was a father. He was the alleged boss of the colombo crime family and the founder of the italian american civil rights league and a nineteen. Seventy one, Joe colombo, was gunned down among the crowd. Thousands in one of the most highly publicize shootings in new york cities, history I'll, take you through the scene here a bit before we get to our guests this week. This the summer of nineteen seventy one in new york, city and

italian american civil rights league is putting on a rally or, let's say, a gathering. Rather this is the second of such gatherings, and they can, unity day? it's a day for the people and to bring everyone together as a community. But this is not a small gathering. No thousands of people were present. The f b I sent every field agent from their new york city offices to the rally Why peaty sent fifteen hundred uniformed police officers, therefore crowd control. They also sent a few hundred higher ranking officers as well, most likely to oversee the patrolman on duty. That day and this is basically a rally. The unity rally is basically colombo was right. Pushing the issue of affirmative action and we think of affirmative action. We think of african, american, affirmative action, but how was really pushing a italian

and so this is something that our days two thousand sixteen were gone. This was an issue. This was a. This was a big issue and in the sixties, and then in the early, seventies, yeah and so talking about seventeen or eighteen hundred police officers. There we're talking about a bunch of fbi. From the n Y see field off offices there is going to be a very large big police presence was going to be on tap that day. Now it doesn't take a wise guy to figure out that the f B- I is not there not there for crowd control, no pun intended, of course, not the the f b. I they don't mess around with crowd control know they are there, because some might call this a mafia event. There is going to be mafia presence there that day as well,

the fbi. Well, they are going to go there to photograph document and, of course, eavesdrop on these mob members. Now Joe colombo, you could consider him the host of this event, the guest of honor, the headliner. Whatever you want to call, it read the main speaker, but unity, a unity day existed because of Joe colombo. He was the one every one was there to see and hear he was their leader and I to point out. You know we all. We all know the f b. I does not like the mob, but more importantly, it was no real secret that J edgar hoover a number one fbi. While he really did not like Joe colombo and I'll, let our guest don caprice, into that a little bit later, but back to unity day.

Shortly before the event could kick off Joe colombo standing inside a press barricade keep in mind Joe, is practically surrounded by italian american civil rights league members, colombo, mob members, family members, as well as n Y p d, patrolmen. Now, there's about fifteen to twenty n Y p d, just to be clear, right, around Joe colombo. It is at this point that Oh is gone down the shooter is Jerome Johnson, who is posing as a camera. Man with fake press credentials. Jerome Johnson is tackled by police. He handcuffed, and then someone in the crowd, shoots, Johnson Johnson dies in handcuffs and Colombo somehow survives the attack, but he,

comatose yeah, and we believe that these are people that worked for Joe colombo. You know his supporters. Somebody was like all know they shot Joe. So now we kill this guy, they re yeah. The thought is that they may have retaliated. Now we are all familiar with the f b I and j edgar hoover. But let's take a minute to me how how familiar are we with? You know how well read had him to brunch one day. Many years ago he was in the garage sipping on a nice cold beer, possibly dressed as a woman, will thus introduce the five crime families. Ok, so the five families are known as the bonanno family, the colombo family, the Gambino family, the gin of family and the lucchese family.

I tried to throw a little italian on the kind of book kind of butchered it now these are the five major new york city organized crime, families of the italian american mafia. Now I know that some of the families have had different names from time to time, so I don't want to get any email saying I'm going to swim with the fishes because because the renovation family was once the luciano family, Men and basically, what happens here. It is you the crime family and then you have less say, cousins and brothers and stuff like that. That are all working for this crime, and sometimes the cousin or family friend become the leader and then they change the name of the crime Pham exactly right. So I mean no disrespect but for the sake of argument for the way in which the fishes, for the sake of this episode, let's just agree that those are the five families

Now I did say luciano or Luciano family, that's a popular name and one that most people are familiar with your not charles lucky luciano. He was once the boss of what more recently is referred to as the renovation family and is pretty. much considered the father for modern day, organised crime and letting new york into the different criminal gangs. Luck became the boss by secretly betraying his boss and then He ended up going to prison and eventually he is deported to ITALY and at some point loses the boss title. I wonder with new york having the five burrows in then we also have the five crime families. I wonder if there's any connection there you're right, there is some connection there in the five major families historically operate. in the new york metropolitan area, but also having a big presence in new jersey and also have in may still be, who knows. Bs, in self south florida las Vegas connecticut in massachusetts, so yet the fao-

I've crime families and sometimes it is working independently. Sometimes their working in clusters is sometimes it's as a whole and sometime the war in between each other? Maybe it's too against three or just one against one yo kind of it, war battle. That's a little bit of the background here. But we are not here to give it your primer lesson on italian american organised. Yes, we are no less what we are here to discuss the spirits, he plot and cover up to kill and silence mob boss in community leader Joseph colombo enough? most What? What do you think is the most cover up? You know like construction, so like you're an organised crime. What are you So you can buy your front yeah you're free. What would your front me like waste manage Yours would be hear what I used to have this guy guy's suspected of no, some people and morgan that little bit later I'll, tell ya interesting story but

One guy anew very suspect was in who antiques I was in antiques dealer. Can never find his store. Ah and then another guy was a barrister had occurred. The shop, but I'll tell you a little bit about him later. The shooting of colombo could have been carried out and organised by any number of groups was the mob, was this a hit by one of the other for crime families? Wasn't the government and the cia trying to take down a crime boss or was it the f b? I d, J edgar hoover, try to silence the very voice that was cool four regulations and sanctions on his own bureau. As we all know, the fbi has been held on your miss in another. The other possibility is this alone. Gunman will, of course, some. Joe did wrong and sworn in revenge and revenge would happen in public and the

help us do so. We have asked don caprice, who is very recently teamed up with Joe colombo eldest son anthony to join us. anthony knew his father extremely well. He worked alongside his father with the italian american civil rights league. Then he has been silent for over forty years and has recently decided to speak out about his life besides father and his father's unsolved murders and die. caprio, wrote this great book: colombo, the unsolved martyr, Dawn is also going to talk to us about Joe Columbus father, see Joe colombo. Father was killed as well, murdered obvious style and most likely a retaliation, kill fur killing that Jos father two gun tony carried out. You know they call two gun tony because he kept a thirty eight caliber pistol in each of his to vest pockets and one of the things that people believe that is evidence that this was an a mob. Killing was because this wasn't done in that typical hit style of the mafia

dawn is a new york native. So he knows the playing turf of this case and, of course he grew up hearing stories about the mafia, families and the differ crime bosses. So without further ado, an interview with don caprice you are a writer producer in music video director, how did you get involved in writing a true crime book so eyes, I had always been interested in true crime, an especially The new york, five families so I had mentioned to a friend a while back in brooklyn that I wanted to do a story on Joe colombo all I want to do a screenplay on Joe colombo, I had always found there. The five families his story to be one most interesting. Because of how diverse you as the leader of a family, and also that there was so much.

So it was a little bit of information, but so much more story out there that no one really knew about his life, though pursuing the screenplay, I was kind of told you know this wouldn't be something that you can do being that his five, his five children are still alive. This would be something you would really need a family blessing to such a part of an eye. By no problem I had put to bed and then about a year later. That same friend had called me able. Are you interested in buying something with the colombo story, Of course say Well, the guy be call you they're working on the book now and they are looking for. I want to do the adaptation first faint light. I took a call with the gentlemen that would like a liaison between the family and their agent, making freiburg and when we were on the call talking the also let me know that they were probably looking for someone to do the block that something was wrong. Now with the wider that they had on board. Timing thing, so I went up to date and I met Joe colombo's oldest son. Then he colombo his gun,

it's. An colombo junior ray who would like liaison and the family through the ages, and we I sat at a diner in and discussed what I knew about Joe colombo life. While to write this book. What might agenda. Wise too said the story in the italian Joe columbine, and they told me a little bit a bit about it, will not written and what was not in the media will but not written in true crime, books and weak with it was great chemistry, and I had never tended to write a book. I always wanted to be a screenwriter, but when the Opportunity arose and accent in treatment to their agent. He accepted it. I decided I was gonna, take on my first reply, biography Tell everybody about Joseph colombo yeah. Have colombo, died before I was born, and I did a lot of research on him from everything from the media story. Uncle Joe colombo was be the jacket of

a little history and an investigation done by the f b I and and my pd, but I think the most interesting stories of Worse came from the people, they had first hand. Experience is with him on the more and more that I met people than that. Joe or had heard stories about Joe and, of course, working side by side with anthony. All the sun, I learned that the man could have He was one of these gentlemen that could have been anything did lead and become successful in many different ways. Besides what in the reputed my boss, Sorry that everybody knew about him as a businessman he was a deal maker and even the deal maker that wanted to create wind in situations as a community person- he was a leader family. He was a strong, cohesive peace that have court the head of the family, but are we making sure that everyone is included in and we ve the title

person that my I met one guy in brooklyn and I asked him a signal What is your column, the who's? Your commonalty, you start that the communication he said Joe Kamel was the type of person that, when a black man, and an asian man and a russian guy and a jewish guy and tying. I we're having an argument something they would control will withdraw go with sudden they come that woman, our leader and everyone will be laughing and patent each other on the back? and to me I just learned that no matter Joe colombo was in the media ire to any person that road or spoke about him, he was just as is going to be a successful leader and that's why I think he had leaned over into politics and started the italian american, rightly He knew how to pave the way to successful situation, whether situation was a business deal whether that situation was

A community organization in all he wanted to build a hospital. He was building a calf and updating york dmitri. colombo was just a natural born leader, we're talking about Joseph colombo. The famous boss of the colombo family. But when, when Joe was a kid father was murdered, vs. So his father an integrated hulu. While there are from calabrian, italy, his father, came by way of brazil, which was very common. During the heavy immigration of italian americans, too from ITALY to the americas, so please There came over and grew up just with his father, because his siblings did not make it because a lot of the people that were travelling on the both got sick and were rejected at new york ports, so him. He grew up as a shriek aid in in south brooklyn and eventually join gangs, and- was known, Two gun, tony

who was a member of what would be the property organization. But I think this is even three five families that he was involved in. bootlegging activity, the warring twenties and then the nineteenth thirty's back at the end the castle memory. They wars There was a huge power struggle that was happening in brooklyn and we all know the story of sal luciano and how he with my lansky devise the five families these territories should finally be defined, and we would be defined in the work would be defined. and one that was happening there were still one in the streets of south brooklyn have a very powerful gang, sir Frankie yells, associate and his name. king hand, parental thumb and he will not settle. He would not you organism, organised crime, like these men wanted to do where there was a politics involved. So the man had

taken out and from from what I was told he was walking home from a meeting one day where he has, he has left the meeting told them the same thing he was not going to give up. Properties are not going to compromise on. he was shot on back a street in brooklyn, The coroner report on that shooting was that the first two bullets that entered his body, you could put a quarter over those forced to blow and entered his heart, meaning that the gun was fired and the second on was fired, had hit the same spot twice pretty rare when it comes to sharp shooting the pistol on that not murder. from from what I was told again, as was done by two gun tony, which will be joke homer most otter. And years later, when the pr foxy organization came could be someone how to take responsibility for that would have died and It was rumoured that that's when they

did they had to kill anthony colombo, who was responsible for the shooting of giuseppe profanity? So he was slain With with a girl that was someone that do you see on the side of his wife and it was a very brutal murder day day. and those days are in the the late nineteen thirties. Nineteen twenties nineteen thirties still doing stuff that they did. They came always call back the barrel. Murders on and off your familiar with that, but where they would a body and they would fix created by tying around from the legs to the head and the body would actually fold and that's how joke animals, father was found and the folded were all over the newspaper and it was something I'm sure was it'll difficult for job at a fourteen year old boy everyone knows him know about it. This murder and have seen pictures of his father body, the handed in laying out from the back seat.

the car and the police photos that need it in the newspapers, and this was something never turning point for Joe colombo because, as is mother at that time, was so nervous about going on, decided to pack up and leave the state and go to california and jealous Fourteen years old did not want to leave this day. He wanted to stay in new york and I he wanted to stay in new york because he wanted to find out who was responsible for his father's murder and was anthony's mistress killed that day as well? She was yeah though his father and his father's mistress were both killed that day by strangulation, both murder we're done by strangulation, Christy Oliver airy, who was married at the time as well, was the mistress and she was also strangled and left inside this- a It's called the shore road murdered in the newspaper the average section of brooklyn and with a very very funny morning that those cars they did muscle and in the evening before an event, foggy morning: the

killer and accomplices took this pontiac and drove it right. from shore road parking on the side of the street and then, when the fog cleared in the morning the bodies rashly found by a little boy who was just walking his dog, and he saw these Two bodies in the back seat of this pontiac and then the superintendent of the building next door, the policeman very eloquently we're talking with true crime, author don caprice about Joseph colombo, the mob boss and his father has been killed when he boy now his mother moves out to california in Jos, stays behind in new york. Yes and I again My belief is that, just wanted to find out who was responsible for his Fathers, murder and I think that Joe also angered wanna to avenge father and was a gentleman that was very close to his father that they live around the corner from each other in sheep, and bay.

And this gentleman what yo at his father's funeral, and let him know that listen, I'm leaving Dear friend of your father's, he was meant to me and in a very important person in my life, and I'm gonna be watching over you and if there is anything that you ever need, please come and see me and Joseph eloping a relationship with this man. From the time he was fourteen years old, a mentorship, I would say no that later on and how that relationship group. But I think that that person is also a pity Person handed the tent poles for Josiah cure my whole family that leave gotta. California. I stay here. I have someone one that I can turn to for money in job or whatever it needs. survive in new york city.

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in school. He does not I'm staying in school to complete a highschool he had which schools because he needed a residency. So the mother sister would live off new user gas, so more towards bensonhurst said he days in school, he was he had a shine box and he was shining shoes and then he started learning how to hold ice and he making money is that what the money doesn't come from rolling and having good luck. The money comes from running the games, so a very early age, he was running crap games and started learning hustles on the street and he got a job working for a butcher. a job working, bakery delivery, and then I think he started to notice Some of the old gentleman in the neighborhood is, while that there was we to have the job and also make a little but an extra money by heading up bakery libraries and setting up

delivery and all these different kinds of things. So he must have a hostile and earn money at a very early age in fifteen years old and once he started to support himself, then that's when he was feeling like he could live on its own and I think before he turned eighteen years old, His mother move back from California wants the dusted settled and she fell. Things were safe decided tat. She would move back in new york, so he was living under her again time he was seventeen or eighteen, so we does Joe colombo become involved in organised crime and get involved with one of the famous five families. The organised crime stuff was- and so much later in life. I think the first thing that happened for him with a start internal working at franklin, pop pocketbook factory in Brooklyn and he was about seventeen eighteen years old when he got the job and discharge

was where he met his future wife, Joe Joe, and he also met some of his closest friend around this time that he had lifelong friends. Also learn to organise at this time were at the factory he he became a leader. This is no where he started getting leaders. rowan and people look at em to settle disputes in it was his first variance with union work. Ah, he also experience with economies the communist party, this time he was invited to a camp upstate. from some of the union workers which be found Paul in new york. I would say- and at this they were recruiting. Italians, germans and other people that were emigrates in new york to join the communist party, and so, during the time the war Joe went up to the camp got everything that they had to say, and you know the politely them or letting and stay there and feeding him and giving them all

information to let him know that you know this is not something that was for him that he was Secondly, on the other side of the political sphere and How many came home on pearl harbor had happened pearl harbor happened? He felt that he needed to act he joined. The the navy, but he joined the coastguard and where to active duty right away. He was on few different ships he's. saw action off the coast ass a blunder everywhere in between france and north Africa a lot of action actually and dirt one of the trips- he got a message from it why's that their house on Pakistan had burned down more you I'm sorry. She wasn't his wife yet newark shifting used to be married. And he came back home and he didn't have for love and he skipped further and he went up into the mountains in new york- was best friends, wife and he got married and

with that you want a war and he was locked up and place on heart island. So he spent a lot of time. Incarcerated a few months and then his wife got pregnant and he had his. We got married. He had his first on within a year and that he started working on the brooklyn docks and I think He started working on the brooklyn doc. He was introduced to a lot of people and organise fine. As we all know, the dogs were overrun with with criminal and organised crime figures. Everyone from Albert anastasia down, so I think alike, people respect the job who s father was, and they knew that his father was in fact one of the gangs and that gang, I think, took him under the wing being the foxy gang, and at the time that he was the brooklyn docks, so we're talking early Nineteen forties, that was when he was probably first introduced. Organized crime has started to see that he could be a leader within this community,

in my research of Joe colombo. There was a lot of talk about a kidnapping that may have happened in nineteen sixty one. I hope I'm not jumping too far ahead here, but maybe fill us in on that now there was a lot of kidnapping going on during what the media and everyone. Talk about gallo, profanity war and what had happened? I think I started in nineteen, fifty eight or nineteen, fifty nine there was the whole. The gallo gang, which was a faction within the property organization from president street, and you had the gallows, which was Joe Gallo Albert Gallo, Larry Gallop, Larry Gallo, as I was told, was the leader of the organization and beyond the gallo gang you. You had a lot of other people that were above one of them Joe jelly, who was infamous infamously known as one of the toughest guide in the street a book one at that time

these guys were vying for power within the organisation, because I was told again they were. They were tough guy that were handling a lot of business for providing himself broken, but it seemed that provide she had. Such a grip on business that he would have them do different thing. Take care of scores, maybe take out people but they're not give them the peace of the pilot they felt entitled to and crazy Joe Gallo, Joe the blonde. If he was referred to in the street, the very rebellious, and I think, and his brother Larry was leader He D, the plan that they could start kidnapping them, the party organization and the man's the money and whatever stake they felt was owed to them. So there was few different people that were kidnapped and nineteen sixty one and it's been warmer- that Joe colombo was among those people, but he never was he actually just move to

upstate new york and made sure that he kept his family outside while all this is happening, and beyond the kidnapping, there were some more that were happening during the Gallo profar. She wore an enjoyable more enough to know that you didn't want to get in the middle of the situation and, as I heard from folks Joe within the influential person after provide she had passed and after mcclosky, over with the under bossy, became the leader of the project, innovation job, person who really cleaned- the war and make sure that everyone could be back together. It could be on family, and that was the reason why, in folk lore, the perversion She doesn't even exist in the five families, any more a matter of fact the color more crime, innovation, as they call it, is the only crime, more innovation that chain it means, and still its name. the fbi enough. We talk about five, famously casey, genovese e below now, gambino colombo. It didn't start off them.

It was actually the perverse regulation that became the core more innovation, and I think this will do. hu, the disdain that a lot of the gallows actually people had towards them she name, and they said what we're gonna make this more innovation again, we'll never ourselves to forty members joseph colombo was never actually kidnap teaches moved his family to kind of lay low, especially with murder? Having been such a real thing for him seeing his father, you know knowing that his father was killed, yet That's what I'm gonna guess he You know why we move the family, he bought a house in blooming grove new york, and he actually buying more and more property of theirs is business was doing better. He said stayed in new york in brooklyn, He was working. Bobby LP on Six street so he's got read it out of stout brooklyn. I would want to say that there was probably even day that he was sleeping off

and driving all the way back into the city for a full days of work and then probably spending time of his family. Again up there. keeping them mainly out of brooklyn as much as possible, not if there was anything- perceive that what happens is Emily because of what was going on the beat no or organized crimes were never known for that sort of behaviour. So I think it was just something that within the media and the news and the people on the street, it was just you know that there's so much dialogue going on about the street that he felt it was better that just keep them removed from everything. Colombo was sent away to prison in the sixties. How much time did he do there small amount of time bomb, This was that this was always at me. The peace Well. The puzzle that I worked closely anthony on where you know I was writing the story. I voted with his eldest son and anthony had told me he had a father, some story to tell, and he only wants to tell the father

story from the time that he was born until the time that his father was shot and during that time he never knew his father at an organised crime figure. He new his father at the head of his household, and whatever was written about it in the papers and whatever was arrested for even what he had gone to jail for This is the level that Anthony would see his father. Just as the business man, he told me he was not an organised crime figure, because if you I'm gonna arrest, you and you beat the charge. I'm gonna put you in jail for not speaking through committee. Are you know the one thing that he was convicted of four was site checking the warm back on a real estate application? You don't you you. Look up to this man. You eat dinner with this man every day, you're going to believe you're you're, going to leave your father and you're not going to question him. So the the time spent jail was with something that anyone could go to jail for which was just contempt

him and Larry Gallo. Together at a resort in the catskills or by a police officer, and just the police officers, Larry Gallo and there was another gentleman who is also a convicted phelan. This allows or a grand jury. Hearing back in new york city, Joe, had decisions, maybe the grandeur hearing, and when you don't speak at the grand jury hearing contempt and they can put you in jail, for they ended up pudding Joe and larry in jail together, and I think the sentence is only about sixty days were content This is the only time that he served in jail. It was for something that you know. You are I or anyone does it want to speak during the grandeur in rank could be put in jail for let's talk about the italian american civil rights league tell us what that is in. Let's talk about you columbus involvement with that. Yes it was always a a you know. He had a lot of pride on for

the italian heritage in law, the community in new york. He lives in and and beyond, and he was I don't want to know if he wasn't a member of hiv, but he was a support of hiv, I'm sure he was a supporter of responded, italy, so he was the problem is also strong supporter in organizations that existed whenever he saw any kind of defamation whenever he saw any kind of struggle, he was that the type of person that would step up and fight and. Something happened in nineteen. Seventy two son that had been boiling and boiling and waiting blow and that finally, did the fbi had been threatening him that if we can't catch you, organic were to to go after your family. You know, will get your kids and they guided his son on a coin melting case. In April of meeting seventy one when this happened

went to these organizations and he said, look it's time for me the italian people to step up and fight the justice department, the justice department, and only attack him, but they had been known for going around in the community and if you knew the criminal you a relative of criminal. There were shaken people down doing wadding money from their homes are threatening immigrants with deportation, then wouldn't two questions. Walking into stores that were, you know, possibly one by an organized crime figure- and you know just The complete disruption within the community to anyone that possibly knew was involved with criminal and Joe had this thing but just wanted to fight for this, and he could not get the support of the organization, so he decided at that moment, end with a close friend would not marconi that he was going to start in american civil rights league is what she became and he was to combat the justice department and beyond

the justice department he was always is car combat and all things that he felt It should be rectified the italian american community and a lot of people. Look at this. and you said no: while he started this organization for the region, making money here It was a very, very passionate and important part of Joe colombo life. I think in some respects, Looking back at his life, I think he would have made a greater political year. Then he would have a mob ass if he could have chose his life's path. you know many many years earlier. Maybe what had happened to him and his father What happened at all talked about how he got involved in organised crime, and we know he'd, you don't just start off being the boss of a crime family. How does Joe rise through the ranks? Well, stories- and you know then there stories that I heard their stories. I read their story I've heard of the ones you read. It was really that come in south brooklyn.

and intel even pregnant. The radar to the fbi had is his job in a lot of other people's before your files and It's pretty much off the radar. Think a lot of people in the colombian organization were maybe even all the organisations, until the Gallo prefer to war Even then they didn't know who was leading the family The war had ended in nineteen sixty three posts. Nineteen sixty three from from all stuff that I ran from some of the people that heard Joe was a progressive, Joe wanted anyone that was involved in organised crime to be business. Man, do not be in the sri known as a criminal, not to be lazy, to be ambitious enough to open up a construction company to have a real say company to own flower shop. To have a cargo ships. Do you have a restaurant so he was

one of the youngest among all of these men came from the prohibition. Our joe was about twenty years younger than that all the leaders of the family that this time and and I think that he was a person that started to see that change needed to be, as the justice department was gearing up to really go after organised crime figures. So as a leader. He was among those five families. He was the most differently. Because he was trying to create change, then how, their structure was- and I think that. Created attention not only with some of the street guide, but also with the leaders of these five families, and You know, as I was reading, and learning more about Joe colombo, like the dichotomy in his character was it was. It was just so diverse that was the most The most interesting thing for me is that creating a resistance almost in every area,

of his life, especially to the organised crime area, Once colombo takes over the family, what kind of leader is he is he loved his? He hated say that he was loved by by a lot of the that were in the organization. I know he was very, very close with carmen as a co, uk close to and a lot of people don't know Mary Gallo. Everyone thinks of ilo colombo as this rift that was forever and this is something wasn't true. Gallo was not only circle. The job he was anthony colombo, his son wedding and while Joe Gallo was not the head of show colombo, sustainable peace. his brother was in and they had a great relationship and larry was definitely woman were powerful people in the colombo organization and

I think that Joe had the love and support people across organised crime families with a new york. In this way the evidence in when he started. The league there were faces and never people on those picket line than there was people that work. really helping Joe turn them We get to a monster and a threat to the guts to the justice department that can happen, Was it a well loved and respected leader in the organised crime, while not only just a community of new york, but also an organised crime, while because This is a man that that went for starting. The kind of markets right leg. In April and picketing the f b, I offices in new york city. He pudding, two hundred thousand people a few and later in colombia circle for one biggest rally york at sea so that only come from being. Not just charismatic but really well loved inside the community's

colombo in his league, theyve, organised, picketing, say sessions and they ve organised rallies. What are they rallying against and we see here are an example of such on the cover of your book. what are they trying to achieve gap? in the end. The cover photo novel both are taken by really amazing elliptical photographer, are referred to I had found sorry. But I never thought of you know my father, I'm joe in a magazine that I I needed to have inside the book and it's it's it's just a photo of him at a rally with young boy and when I found out When I found out who shot at photo, I powder The photographer good living in mexico at the time and I she let me know yeah. I still have an apartment in new york that I keep an eye. I go there one month out of the year and I have some old photos from stuff. Every without so I

this man a few months later at the apartment in harlem and he develop. All this film and that will not cover photo came from so very interesting photo It has Joe squaring off with police officer there near the fbi, offices in manhattan and the person that in the center of the photo behind it? The duke Santoro and he's holding a sign that says: are we headed for a police state and that's why I feel this book was better told. You know forty years, as what joe colombo was thinking, what he was saying as well right leader, and also because the community leader was to stand and have them action against the government jokes we did not believe in the practices of the f b. I did not believe in the practices of the organised crime strike force the justice department as a whole, because he felt that they had to hold the respect and the law

What america said it was in the integrity of justice and he knew that they were doing illegal activity to make arrests. She knew They were robbing. He knew that the same matter The pudding guys away from running numbers were gamblers booze drugs. Everything that he felt was right. and the warm key he wanted to make sure there was a line between the justice department shriek, guys that were doing it and that type of forward thinking was what he wanted. In writing es because he knew that they were just. get it today and the illegal spying. If we look at, Snowden and if we look at wikileaks, Joe, never learn to know about this, but in nineteen. Seventy one if you're familiar with cointelpro, but that, without it and nineteen seventy one by a bunch of college students and pennsylvania have bloke into an fbi office. The very security fbi office, but they managed to get a whole bunch of papers out.

out, hoover's illegal organization. Within the f b, I called collins how proud, which was short term or intelligent programme, The programme has documentation of illegal activities and even murder. They told the black panther and cargo, and this is the kind of stuff that Joe had it was probably that was going on. You didn't have factor evidence than you want to stop the fbi from able to without a warrant boston, the people doors, take money from their apartment, and shape people down and you know, illegal wire taps and and all these different things that were happening. So the are. We headed for a police state sign, I felt like wow. You know this was in nineteen. Seventy you know, how relevant is that, right now what the people are fighting for street and protesting against the government and jobs? republican. He was a conservative, I I'm sure a libertarian and wanted to make sure that the government remains

where it was when this country started where was ruled by the people and she started. Either hoover and and the justice department we're doing exactly the opposite, and no one was trying to curb this. some really interesting stuff. That dawn is putting down some stuff and I'm picking it up yet and will have to finish this and part two which will come out tomorrow. Yeah I'll, try to edit it as soon as I can, and and release it as soon as I can could we would allow more dive into a lot more to dive into and, of course, our recommended reading for tonight is colombo, the unsolved martyr by don caprio in hand than he colombo I'm going to read a little caption that I found regarding the book itself. You know I'm not write my own here to the media and the f b. I Joe colombo was the head of one of new york. infamous five families.

To the italian american community? He was an organizer and a leader to his fate, He was a great husband and father who was responsible for Joe colombo death, and why have the efforts that Joe made for the italian american community gone on, recognised all this. Of his way very heavily on anthony colombo for years, and he has finally decided to write a book to address who colombo really was, and too address who should be held responsible for his death. The book is based on Anthony's personal life. Beside his father and his in, knowledge surrounding his shooting and the suspiciously flawed investigation into his death so pick up column, an unsolved murder by dawn, caprice and anthony colombo. You can pick them up at our website. True crime, garage dot, com and click on the recommended page. We will see you right here back in the garage tomorrow, so don't be, be they until then be good, be kind and and litter,

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