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The. I welcome the true crammed garage where you are whatever you are doing things for listening, I'm your hosts nick may, as always, is a man that rightfully so describes himself as a young bearded rockefeller? He is the cap, some kid in money, like a bank teller, it's good Seen in this good just say you thanks for listening, thanks for telling afraid

today we are drinking power jack by the hard working people, barley, browns and beautiful baker. City organ barrage grade four out of five bottle caps: a blend of three, make up this ip with flavors of citrus tropical fruit and allow Will bid a pine and poligized was brought to us by you, wonderful listeners in these hard working people? First up we have Kalen who says: why I cannot describe how much I love your show, but beer cans and a big he mates to Adam in melbourne, australia. Next we have cavy frizzle from Chicago who says nick is a geek. From Chicago or at a big shot out the keeley and calgary Canada. And, last but not least, we have met from walnut trees, buckinghamshire united kingdom. So thanks everybody for filling up the fridge for this week show and if you want a bias around, if you want to buy this geek a beer for next week show go to true crime, garage dot, com and click on the donate button,

you like to follow on social media, facebook, twitter, instagram? You can find us at true crime garage that's enough of the business everybody gather around grab a chair, be a dork, the geek. Let's talk some true grab as we sit here today, captain young cairo horn and he has been missing for seven years- he's been missing since that last day that he was seen at his school on a friday june forth, the two thousand and ten last spotted by his stepmother, who said that she saw him walking to his classroom. He's reported missing and now we're left here, captain wondering what happened to this little boy.

I really want you when you narrow it down. There are three options right. We have option ay Kyron the little boy left left the school, on his own wandered off somewhere there was eight access points in and out of this school building he was spotted near one of those at the around the last. I'm that he was seen. We also have option b that he was taken by a total stranger and options, see that somebody within his inner circle is responsible for why he disappeared. While the search effort was huge gap- and it happen quickly- and so seems like option. Ay doesn't make a lot of sense. I think we would have found him by now and even if he left the school and accident happened, I think we were found his body by now

yeah, because we have a situation like you said very quickly after he went missing within seven or eight hours, this searches, the searchers are out and the initial search ass did over ten days in was regarded as one of the largest in the states history I with more than thirteen hundred people from organ washington in northern california. Looking for the boy dates, the two mile radius around the skyline school that he attended and also parts of savvy island. We both agree that theory, a with fire, is leaving, doesn't make a lot of sense, but theory be some eight grabbing. Him could be a good thing mobility, yeah! Well- and we have this situation here, captain which it it sucks, I mean, did to sum up in into one big word: it socks, because, what's going on that day, it's a very, very busy day at that school, regan it. By most the teachers as the busiest day of their school year, it's their size

an sphere in the morning, and then we have a talent show in the afternoon and guess what? If you are some terrible per and you're looking to grab a kid? Well, there's a big sign out in front of the school that says on this date we're having a science fair from this hour to this hour and we're having a talent show from this hour. To this, are the schools basically open somewhat open to the public they're not expecting random people to just walk in the school, but they have the school opened at this time, open early, so that parents and students can tore the site it's fair yeah and I'd argue that maybe it's not some random person, because yet they're they're advertising that there's a science fair, but you don't know how heavily chaperoned this is gonna, be. Ah but yeah. It is up open to the public. The other thing, too, is, if you had any information about the students and about the school. You'd also know that the school wasn't under surveillance, so that gives-

The opportune window- yes and the thing here is, though, while this is a possible scenario, it seems it does seem a little unlikely to me an end I'll. Ok, he's he seven. We have a seven year old boy. We have no evidence leading us down this road. We have nobody saying you know I saw Kyron with some strange person or I or he was heard yelling and screaming, because somebody grabbed him and pulled them into his vehicle yeah. You would think that this would be a safe place for kyron. So if somebody did grab him that he would feel safe enough to be able to scream for help. Ah, so the likelihood that there's all these eye witnesses that and I see a carbon leaving with some strange person whom kind of weird you and I- and I know, there's people out there. Listening that are gone, you know he's only seven and yes, we ve cover cases before, and so it is a possibility that he could have been lord to somebody's vehicle.

He got into the vehicle willingly. He is only seven that is somewhat of a possibility, but I think the obvious possibility and most likely possibility here and it seemed to be what the police really honed in early into the investigation and search for kyron is its summit. Within his inner circle, was involved in this disappearance? Along with all these allegations and weird speculations about the stepmother, it's kind of clear that we need to dive into her as a possible suspect. I agree- and I think will we should do- is just kind of point out the different, suspicious behaviors along the way and kind of dive into those as day as we go through our list here now. This clear she has never been named a suspect, but she has never been cleared as well. Correct, So, as we said, the police became suspicious when they searched terry hormones. Cellular phone records

and it was revealed that she wasn't where she said she was the morning the cairo disappeared. This is what led, the whole savvy island thing, which is about five six miles from cairo school. This led to a massive, each of the island for the missing boy, but again no trace of cairo and with this piece of but then it made me wonder: was it just an area that you would drive on to a new one it now, but our listeners have reached down and said hey if you know that area oh savvy island, that once you're on it, you know you're on the island, yeah yeah and just to be clear. Its a river island, but it is, rather large piece of land, but, like you said in life, he speculated in episode, one! It would be tough to and up on an island accidentally and not be able to recall that you were there now terry's statements, the stepmom statements to police index.

that, after leaving the school at eight forty five a m the data Karen went missing, she ran errands at a local grocery store. This is the friend meyer store and so about ten ten, a m and then from ten ten, a m to eleven thirty nine, a m, she states that she drew of her daughter around town in in an attempt to use them ocean of the vehicle to soothe the toddlers ear ache. Terry then went to a local Jim at approximately eleven. thirty, nine, a m- and she said that she had worked out that day until about twelve forty p m one twenty one she had arrived home. Some other end, nation that we can ask for from you guys was. Is it odd to drive a kid around that long? It's kind of half and have some people said. Oh that's not that long, especially if the kid is sick. Maybe you drive around

hunger and then the other half would say that is way too long. So where was what she driving around were not really for sure. But what is odd about this? In what so many listeners pointed out was, the kid is sick. You drive your kid around for hour and a half, and then you decide to take the kid to the gym with you right seems like you're. If your kid is that sick, that you're skipping the gym and is heading home yeah, so I I loved that response that we got from the listeners because, It's a very big question mark. You don't drive that kid around for an hour and a half and then put her in the day care center at the jim to be amongst other kids. If this kid was so uncomfortable, and so sick, and you were truly worried trying to soothe this sick child. You taken that child home after eeg after you get her to fall asleep or, like other.

listeners pointed out. You would continue driving around so that the child with sleep as long as possible. This obvious, obviously captain leaves us with quite a window of time where something could have happened where she could have not where she said she was, and then there is also a little dispute about actually how long she was at the gym. We know did she was at the gym at eleven thirty nine, because she has to check in the problem. Is we have other people saying? I did see or at the jim, but I don't I don't remember seeing or for an hour. I don't remember Seeing her after noon, where She says that she was there till twelve forty p m. This is their window of time where something could have happened. Yet shared with the eyewitness accounts of her being at the grocery store. An eyewitness accounts of saying that she was at the gym again makes me wonder: is she trying to establish a alibi? Well and I'll? Tell you what here captain I think for this one

you want to keep score home or your keeping score in your garage regarding tear. Involvement in cairo disappearance, I think for the date for this portion for her, wherever what's in what she was actually doing that day. Look I I. I have to believe that this points a little more towards the end of she was involved in this. I can't I can't give her a check mark for no This clears her. You know nope, she wasn't involved. I mean I'm not to finalize the pencil mark it, but I leans in the direction of her question will be questionable behaviour and me questioning where she actually was that day. I agree. The second item that I wanted to get to is that she was interrogated by detectives. and we know that she was questioned several times for several hours. They were also looking for physical evidence of foul play in the vehicle that she was.

Having that day remember she was driving keynes truck when she dropped kyra off at school. A lot of people would say that this points to her being suspicious and to be being guilty of something. The problem here is they found nothing incriminating after all, those searches and all those times questioning her now, which would point in her favour. Yet, let's give her a check mark in her favour. There, then third, we have, she reportedly took and failed to polygraph test right, and then she denied a third one. He had. This does not

good for her at all. In my opinion, we heard heard defend herself stating that she could not hear the person very well that will administering the test. What she then said that the second test she failed because it seemed like they were rushing her through the test, then that they didn't conducted properly. But then you have a third time where she, just all out, refuses to take the test this Certainly a check mark against terry ormond yeah. I agree for the most part. By again, I dont know the extent of our hearing issue and we ve. We ve heard from experts that if you have a hearing brown, this can really affect the results of a polygraph tests. So again I know, but it's hard to believe what she says, because she is unknown liar. She is unknown cheater.

and I don't agree with those things this to me, and I agree with you. Captain in that expert is right, but this points to me as the first signs obvious signs, that's told to the public of her not cooperating in the investigation no I'm always very suspicious, and I think we all should be of anybody. That's not cooperating in an event the yeah I agree. Again not fully because, yes, I think you should cooperate with law enforcement. I think you should tell them information that you know, but there's a difference between them, asking you questions and then them throwing shade your way, and I think if they're doing so I mean it's the smartest move lawyer up, and that doesn't mean that doesn't mean that you can't cooperate. That doesn't mean that you can't talk with law enforcement, but you're going to do so in the presence of your

cause you're going to be able to tell your story to your lawyer and based on what you tell your lawyer, they're, going to know what they can or what you should share with lawn for Well then, here's the big one hears the big marker right here, everybody but vague turtle. Yet we got a giant red neon arrow, pointing to this situation so me two days after kyron disappearance, detectives, told kane, horsemen caverns father that his wife, terry about five months before kyra, went missing, had asked a landscaper named rodolfo sanchez to kill her husband, so you picturing this situation. Thank you, MR sanchez, for coming out to my property. Today I would like for you to edge the flower beds, cut the grass and roll my husband up.

This rug and dump him in a landfill and then Cain was like. We have landscaper yeah, I dunno. This is the. This is the piece of evidence like if somebody said to me right now, like I can have a question answered, I mean obviously the nowhere is karen. That would be the main question, but if I couldn't have that answered- and I just needed to have a few things answered to lead me to the truth, this would be the one yeah. This is the one because and you actually brought it up, and I don't like to emit when you do smart things, but it was something I didn't think about at all, as we dove into seems, like hundreds of cases now that you know it's something that you would think that I would have learned through time.

But this is a big key people, throw this girl under the bus all the time and yeah. She has done some shady things morally, but this is the one where they go if she's capable of trying to hire summit a murder, her husband than she's capable of kidnapping and possibly murder in her steps on or higher in some way to do it so, but here's the problem that I have with it and I never thought of it unless you came up with the idea- was the cops do not tell kane about this till after the guy goes missing right. So then, when did the landscaper report this to the cops

Did he report it to him five months ago, or did he see something on the news and said? Oh, my god, this kid went missing. That's the lady that try to hire me to kill her husband right and I'm glad you opened up that door because we did speak about this and we ve touched upon this in the previous episodes. There are so many different versions of this story out there that very confusing and the best that I can nail it down. I'm an almond I've thrown out a lot of junk over the last days on this case and regarding this story, but the best I can nail it down is. This is how the situation worked. Ok, the police were not told of this murder for higher plot until after Cairum had disappeared. This this, he goes by rudy, so we'll go will say: Rudy sanchez, rudy, rudy, Rudy rudy, I believe that's his nickname and he he approached the police and said. Look

the lady on the news that that's you know involved in this family with his disappearance. She tried to hire me too, her husband, a cable. How do you know this? Lady? Terry? Warm? While I worked for her, and that was a debate that you and I had had, because when here. The word landscaper and somebody worked for somebody. You automate automatically kind of assume that it's kind of some time we saw I love long term interaction or agreement that they have in then we have come. this as well! I didn't you know we had a landscape area, so this is

question is this: they actually had a fairly big property. I believe it was about two and a half to three acres and it sounds to me, like kane, had decided that James James being a teenager, this is terry's biological, son and kane step son he's decided that James should be responsible for the yard work for the maintenance of this property. Well, I guess terry decided that this is too big of a chore for a child. Yes, he's a teenager, but he's still a child, and I think that she probably felt the This was unfair and so unbeknownst to her husband. She hired this landscaper to do a lot of the maintenance on the property. She probably kept him working there. You know when her husband wasn't there right, and it was probably just as simple as that. This I dont know why

this all entailed. It could have been a situation where he only worked for her a handful of days or could something a little more long term now that the way that the story goes according to Mr Sanchez is that she had met him at a restaurant where there she was speaking to him about her husband came, and she tells MR sanchez. The cane is mentally and physically abusive to her and at some point she starts telling him that you know kane carries about thousand dollars cash on him at all times. so has a laptop that he walks around with you know somebody could kill him and make it look like a mugging and run off with that money. Now. The problem here is wind when pressed further by the police, Mr Sanchez does state at no time did

she ever technically offer me money to kill her husband at no time She say the words I will give. ten thousand dollars. If you murder my husband, no, he just says she kept kind of implying she kept kind of leading me down that road. Now they don't have a chance get this, obviously until after Kyra has disappeared by this point, she's, probably terry. probably on high alert they send in some guy. You know an undercover dude bit of a sting operation to try to talk to Harry again about this murder for higher plot, and she basically jumps out of the situation and says I don't know you're talking about. I want nothing to do with this right. So again, if, if this thing went down, she gets

I have it pretty easy yeah or she had nothing to do with it right. I mean there's a possibility that she hired this guy she'd set a couple of stupid things too, and he took the wrong way or he didn't if he really felt strongly about it. I think he would have came to the police before and then we've seen multiple times with missing person cases, and especially when it's a missing kid case. Some weird people get involved yeah. I agree with Mr Santer says that you know: not only did she use this, sir kane always ten thousand dollars on him approach to trying to convince him to kill kane, but she also used her sexuality, and you know bringing up the fact that her, but not the fat, but bringing up her story of cane being an abuse person now on on terry side in her defence. What she would say regarding this is the

the relationship with the landscaper there. There you know working relationship together ended when she turned down sexual advances by MR sanchez, and she also states that she could most times could not understand. Mr Sam Chaz. There was a you know things it would get lost in translation, let's say plan also to possibly has bad hearing yeah answers I couldn't understand him and she believed that there were many times that they had conversations where he could not understand her as well, and I think this piece of evidence for me of this came out or the police were notified about this five months before the kid with went missing, then I'd I'd, believe it more. I'm not saying that. I don't believe it, but I just believe it more yeah well. I wish it had come out five months before Cairum went missing, because I have a feeling that had it women

I'll be sitting here looking for kyron at this bright and the other tough thing about this, too, is from the you know from the get go of the investigation. A cane you know, Terry's husband, is adamant that she had nothing to do with it and showed no signs of ever being capable of doing something like this, on the other though to I wish that somewhere, somebody would be able to come out and say you know what I saw: mister sanchez and terry hormone together, restaurant. I wish somebody would if that happened in somebody spotted them. You know I wish we would. Somebody saying that, because to me, there's no reason for a landscaper and in the person that hires him to be together at arrest was about the delicious There is still no worries that I've worked as a landscape for a couple years. Captain nobody ever invited me as a lunch

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the right years needs were back. Ok on Wednesday July, twenty first two thousand and ten. So this is just what about six weeks after com. when horsemen disappeared. Law enforcement is putting pressure on terry small circle of friends. This includes forty three year old, dd, spacer investigators, search, spacers condominium and have interviewed people who saw spice are on june, Fourth, the day the cairo disappeared. Now, just two days later, on July, twenty third detectives investigating the disappearance of cairo announced that dd spy I was doing gardening work for a north west, portland homeowner on june forth, but she had abruptly left the house eleven thirty a m, and she did not return until about an

or to ninety minutes later another person working at the home called spice or to come in for lunch and the homeowner called spice or on her cell phone, but she wasn't able to reach Her detectives have question both the homeowner and other persons who were working at the home that day. Ok, so we have a small circle of friends for terry horsemen and now we have this, this woman, didi spice or who is unaccounted for forever. Our two ninety minutes during the day that current had disappeared yet, which is its god. The problem here, though, is that he did go to school. We do have some eyewitnesses of seeing terry after she left school bright, but I think the big problem here that the we are told that she left the home around eleven thirty a m. This presents a problem with terry's. Story of what was going on that day, because at this time

she would have been near the end of her trip of driving. Her daughter, around for about an hour and a half rather get the kid to fall asleep. Ok and then shortly afterwards, she seen at the Jim with her daughter, and then we have. We have this little this little ten minute, five to ten minute overlap of didi spice her when she first goes unaccounted for that day, towards the end of terry's time where she's unaccounted for and then of didi, whose gone for about an hour to ninety minutes right. But the tough thing for me is what did terry if she took Karen, where was cairum, why shoes at the store,

hmm, where was karen when she's driving around and the daughter was he injured? Did she hurt him? You know that they searched the car, there's no evidence of her driving around a dead body right. This lady has to be crazy enough to help you hide the body of your of your stepson It seems like a pretty far leap. I know that there are some crazy people out there, but I don't really know much about her other than she's friends. She gave her some bad advice. She's bought some. I believe she bought some cell phones for her, so she could like talk to people without being trace which It is kind of shady we don't know a lot about her so to discolour, like all she's, crazy enough to help hide this kid right,

we would still like to know where she was during this hour on that, and I would like to know and again its backing right up to the time that terry is gone for the day now. So in her defence, she states that the the calls went to her voice mail or by the homeowner and by the person working on the property and because she had left her phone in her car and the situation is this too. This is a large property. This is like a thirty eight acre property. but there's a chance. You know I am a little uncertain what this means when it says, she abruptly left the house at about eleven thirty a m. Well, did she leave the property she could have very well have been on the property cell phone in her car and not able to take these phone calls, and I wish we had like cell phone pings to prove whether or not that phone,

was at least on the property yet, and we have a situation where we don't seem to have any communication between the two of them during this timeframe, yeah, without being smart plan, hey, we got a plan and by the way, don't talk to each other. Yet stick to the plan assume I'm going to be where I say, I'm going to be at this time, beware: I've asked you to be at the same time. I'll be in the ground the following week, didi spice her she appeared at the at the grand jury in front of the grand jury in response to a subpoena. Now, during this time, captain she's asked several questions where she, you know she pulls the old fifth amendment movement. You know she says you know basically doesn't answer any of the questions I played the fifth yes shit, she's gonna play the fence, so she doesn't have to answer any of their questions. Now, in early august, we have searchers in investigators their searching two mile strip of old,

I'm in town road. This is not far from the home of despiser on tuesday august, seventeenth, didi, spice or tells people magazine that she did not leave the thirty eight acre property where she was working the day that cairo horsemen vanished. But now we have some of the people. work there. You know, as we said she was unaccounted for during this hour to ninety minute timeframe, I believe that her vehicle didi spices vehicle never left the property. Her cell phone, in if we take her at her word, her cell phone in her vehicle, but we have peace they have worked. There had said that it's not impossible. It would not have been impossible for her to have taken another vehicle and left the property that yeah there's something fishy about dd spicy. Yet well, let's talk about the cell phones. You brought it up. Let's talk about the burner

bones. Are the prepaid cell phones, how you know there's a million different things. You can call them, but the situation is this: they were able to prove they on and on two occasions. Ah at least three cell phones were purchased. These were prepaid cell phones, they were paid for with cash, and a fake name was used to purchase these phones. It was it's general knowledge that one of terry hormones, friends, was the purchaser of at least one of the locations of the cellphones and I I might not have been clear there, but what but okay, so let me break it down a little easier, okay break it down, break it down for us One occasion there were two cell phones. There were purchased by a person using cash in a fake name another location there was a single cell phone purchased using the same fake name and again with cash,

I believe that they were able to link one of those purchases to one of terry's. France, ok, so here here's. My thing with this burner found little shady that you would want one if your terry, that you'd want a burner phone right but rep, but if you are a cheater, maybe you're planning on china hook up with somebody else? Maybe you wouldn't want that monitored? Okay, not that big of a deal or you're dissociating person and you have bad morals. But that would be a reason. Then you Asher friend, to buy it for you, so you're, not the one buying it. And then your friend uses a fake name. Now it's layer upon layer of shading us right now,

The thing here is what we gotta call into question, as we know that one of her friends did one of those purchases, its thought by law enforcement, that the other purchase is in fact part of her circle as well, because the same fake name was used in the same method. Payment was use. Now we do know that these cellphones exist and we know that this happened and why because we have despiser and we terry terri, who admit to using these phones. They say that you know we we're close friends. We were in contact with each other after the investigations, started we had in these are Terry's words that her phone had been flashed by police, meaning that they took her cell phone for a portion of time and they were able to to trace its activity. so she says that these funds were used simply just for duty and her to communicate back and forth. I believe that at some point a third name came out and I want to say

was laura or law, and I dont have the name in front of me. I dont know how concrete that was, but that sort of thought where the third phone would have went, but regarding remember the sexting. The old text, messages that we discuss regarding thirty Michael cook those text messages at one point, terry. You know for anybody that still has a question. If she had this burner phone at one point she says to Michael cook: pay I Have a clean phone brain. Would you prefer to communicate that? What would you like? make my clean found him him trying to continue the dirty talk. Jokingly says I have a dirty phone and she doesn't They respond to that until he informs her that he was joking, because now she's, like all crap there, their monitoring his phone,

and he and she says, do you think they're monitoring your phone, to which Michael says I wouldn't think so, but I dont know how that works. Terry explained to him. They would have had to physically have taken your phone for a short period of time where they would have installed some kind of software. Some form of monitoring has fought for me with these burner front phones again it goes back to even if it's as simple as I'm goin through this process of interrogation. I'm dealing with cops all the time and maybe I just one event and be like god, this one copies ease. A jack wagon re in this other guys, a canoe You don't wanna make it sound like your bad mouth and the cops their monitoring your cause. I get that that's a reason, but you just have your friend go out by on a phone views in their name, a user credit card. If you have to give each other funds and that's why you did it, you know, but using this fake name

like I said it's layer upon layer of shakiness yeah and regarding the questions that she had to answer front of the grand jury that she did not win, didi spice or did not willingly answer, though they were pretty softball questions cap? I don't have the list in front of me here, but the thing is a lot of those questions were things that the police would be able to easily prove or disprove things it dil. Seem to be may not be directly related to the disappearance of current and in manner fact of tea. is not involved or terry was, involved in this than none of them would have anything to do with the disappearance of cairo. You know, I think one or one of the questions was. Was this simple? This you know, what has your friendship and relationship been like for the past six months with terry harmon? I know that you need to plead the fifth on that one and then questionable. Maybe there was some sexual stuff goin on yet have have you sent sent.

Received any emails from terry hormone after this date. Okay, well plead the fifth, but guess what that dad again pretty easy to figure out if those emails, if that correspondence happened, right, solitary the turtle doves, some shady things and terry, the turtle has some shady for ends and her scorecard is not looking very good for her right now on my garage scorecard here, captain We do have some events that took place regarding instead, we should get too, and we want to make sure we mention the first being on june. First of two thousand and twelve, as a re young, the biological mother of cairo, filed a lawsuit against terry claiming She was responsible for the disappearance of cairo seat ten million dollars and damages. now, eleven months later, desert would drop the law suit, saying that she didn't want the civil action soon to jeopardize the police investigation into her sons case

then we have late. Two thousand thirteen, a judge finalized the divorce between cain and terry hormone, but the couple still had to resolve the issue of who would take custody of the child that took place the following year in two thousand and fourteen The ruling would be that the the cane would gain custody of their five year old, daughter, yeah and terry would be able to visit. The girl under court ordered supervision and august of two thousand and fourteen terry attempted to change her name to clare. Stella Sullivan, deterred ferguson in court. She told the judge kyra hormone, is missing, he needs to be found. I love my step son. I want him home more than anything. She also reminded the judge this she had not been, though the last person to see Kyra alive and her attorney could

prove that now the judge did deny her request to change your name, and I think that smart I mean she's. She's not been named a suspect, but guess what, when they're, holding when they ve when they ve collected a grand jury and their presenting evidence to the grandeur That means they are seeking to arrest and indict somebody right on a charge, but she could be harmful to other people's could be harmful to other children, and I think I think the thing here is the person that they were seeking. Chow jews on in an indictment against is obviously terry harmon. We have in december of two thousand and fourteen terry began working for a this is a care facility for men. We ill adults and, and she minded she might need to be in the facility. Yes, she was a health support specialist. She quit working that job in two thousand and fifteen. That brings us to august of

thousand and fifteen, where terry horsemen is charged with having stolen a handgun from her roommate. She lived with a man, he had a gun safe. I dont use a roommate, though I think there were love us and I'm one of his guns came up missing pith and he said you know what ice I saw it in her possession. She stole my fire once she wasn't going by terry to this guy. I dont believe she was going by terry she's going by her maiden name right. Ok, she had up still in the gun. I think, right after he find found out that her steps on went missing so like they were hanging out for a long period of time and she never brought this up- yak ass- she had moved by this point, so this guy wasn't, We are aware of this situation and fully aware her background or involvement in this writes that history goes that he found out about this and I think question her

and was like hey look a lot of people online, think that you had something to do with it and then all of a sudden she stills his gun, was she planning to try to get rid of this guy I think there's only two to me. Unless somebody was trying to come up with a great argument for another reason, why to me, there's only two two reasons that somebody steals a gun a to sell it or be you use it to kill somebody and not. Have it be traced back to you right now about what the other thing too, and I don't know if you're going to bring this up in your notes. But Desiree had something that I thought was super awesome cut. Karen's mother go ahead. Karen's mother decides to go to the town that terry moved to and start plastering missing person signs. Everywhere yes cause. She wanted every buying that community to know what kind of person terry is. What do they call it?

There are, there are people that have helped desert. I kind of keep this spotlight on terry- and I think I've heard them referred to as desert raise disciples I'd. That's it meant that that's not the My would pick here's the thing. I don't hurt or hon ties see where one might applaud this. I I do takes little issue with it at point somebody was placing these missing posters around her job as well right, there's a little confusion as to why she quit and I what mean by confusion. Is this we have the facility stating one reason why terry quit working. We have terry stating another reason stating that she was in fear for her life she didn't want to go to work. She did try. To put it

training order on one of the women that was harassing her around her job, and that was putting up these posters that that was denied by the judge and that's when she quit. So that's more than likely that through reason. Why now regarding the gun charges, though distant, of going to court for quite some time, almost two years later, one because she fail to appear in court and two they didn't end up. Evolving this situation until this year, the problem is captain that the charges she's found not guilty of having stolen this handgun. Really, hmm, that's weird, but this case is so tough for me because it all comes back to did she try to hire somebody to kill her husband, because if she did It- and that was just some weird mix up or some weird dude- that just wanted to get involved in the story? I don't think a lot of this

that would have been brought to light. I think we would have had all these fishy scenarios with terry, while the thing here is that terry, She hangs her hat on the fact that she has never been named a suspect. We hear time and time again any time she doesnt interview, it's always either Where did with are followed up by I've now urban named a suspect in the disappearance of cairo norman, while good for you ok. So let's talk about that this, the sticky situations we have the one did she hire someone or attempt to hire someone to kill her husband? Was she involved in the disappearance of her steps on? Did she tried to steal this gun and, if so, watch, what was she going to use it for while we have two situations, the first two, where there charges brought up against her she's right. She, not named a suspect. Me

the final one. Where the charges didn't stick. She gets a not guilty verdict. I'm gonna call terry harmon, the teflon lawn stepmom, because nothing sticks to this woman are right, but I think the thing here is too. I think I'm gonna throw all those things out the window. There is a possibility that she's guilty of one of those actions or more possibly all three but I'm gonna, throw all those things out the window, because I dont think that there's enough evidence to to I've us to believe that she's actually guilty of one are all those things, but I think let's hope in on the current disappearance, because I think the thing here to understand this case and to understand who the most likely suspect is, I think we have to understand. Terry hormone is terry hormone is a person that will do what where she once at any cost

no regard for anybody else and when she does that and gets caught? She's gonna. Do these things behind your back captain and we should does them and she gets caught behind my back then she's going to lie about it. and if she gets caught in her life, she's going to change her story and she's, a weasel her way out of every situation that she looks guilty. and this is why I have a huge problem with terry, and this is why I think she should be the prime suspect in the disappearance of cairo norman. Why? because her stories keep changing everything that happened within this woman's life. Every important thing that happened with this woman, leading up to his disappearance and the day that he disappeared her we keep changing once is very selfish, so we have a situation: let's go through the first one, no gay. We have her telling people at her Jim people, She works out with other people to go to the gym. We have them telling test

lying in front of a grand jury that they were told by terry, the cane force terry son, James to go live either his grandparents or his father. But James is story. Let's go. Let's go get this directly from from the person James. The story is that he went to go live elsewhere because he could not get along with his mother. That's a completely deaf story. Those are her words. These are things she told people that they were willing to testify to. Then we have the the old polygraph, ok for Malta to tat She failed a polygraph test now. The thing that we hear most of the time is in her the fence is that she is deaf in one ear and this caused up complications to those tests. While I heard she was deaf in one ear and she can't hear out of the other one,

The other thing that she said early on in the situation was that she failed the first polygraph because it was taken the first week the cairo had gone missing and that she failed it because she was not sleeping or eating during this time because she was so upset about the situation and she was so worried about crime and that she could not sleep or she could not eat yet europe words terry, three, later, within that same time, frame you post on facebook going to the gym. Guess what terry I don't go to the gym when I'm not sleeping when I'm not eating when I'm to stress our two worried about a situation or even when he's fill in fine again her words and when that's good enough, when that's good Then she changes at all. I can't hear out of my left ear. Okay. Now, let's talk about questions as to why terry's phone was pink. off of a tower and saw island when her first statements to police.

She was nowhere near sir the island, then years later guess what she saying now well, when I was out, driving the kid around. I was on route thirty, which is very close to saw the island no ten You are either nowhere near savvy island or you were on route, thirty and guess what even if you were on route thirty, maybe that explains the cell phone pink. to me, but it doesn't explain to me why you're storing keeps changing and then another thing that I want to bring up. Is ass time that terry said that she saw Cairum. He was by himself He was in the hallway he's walking towards his classroom and then, just three days later, we have you saying that he was with a strange man with a person that I didn't recognize. But I'm terry, that that is a way of pointing the investigators in one of those other options, not on terry.

Points them towards some strange man of doktor, this boy, brain And- tell you what you know we we talked about. I said you know when I've been questioned by police, they ask me something as simple as Did you see a brown car? Dr past? I would say no, I didn't see a brown car because I didn't, but I'm I tell them that I saw a blue car and I'm going in. I saw a black car. Why? Because I did why? Because guess what it's my duty as a citizen as a listen to tell them everything that I saw during the truck timeframe that they are asking me it's not up to me to do. I'd the relevancy of the things I saw it stops. On the information to law enforcement, so they can determine the relevancy of what I saw and if it means anything

It could mean something to them later in their investigation. Guess what terry you were, probably if the if the police and of which I have to believe that they were and detectives were following protocol, they are going to ask you very specific questions. Where was the last time you saw MP what was the last, You saw who was with him. Did you see anybody with him? A boy, a girl, a man, a woman, a dog, a cat, a python anything a turtle? Yes, did you see anything? The answer to those questions was in the magically three days later he's with some strange man? This to me makes her the prime suspect, in this case one hundred percent. Do you need to take a break you have said everything I want to say you sure you look a little sweaty, the current of the colonel, you always say: I'm not gonna get. He did up on this one.

the colonel showed up the playing on obviously captain day, don't have enough to bring terry hormone up on charges of the disappearance of current right, but there still out there looking there still searches that are being conducted to this day and I think, some day they might find that thing that they're looking for they might find when somewhere- and I hope as well and when they do we're gonna. I think when a fine, more evidence pointing towards the guilt of terry horn, and I would be awesome- If they find him one day, I dont believe that's gonna happen not find him alive and as much as I don't approve of what keen did his parents are in a really tough spot with life, because kane is always going to sit there and wonder what? If I'm jes faithful.

to my wife. What if I never met terry? What, if you I mean? What am I, what I saw these signs earlier? What if I was honest with my self, when I saw these signs and told more people about it? What, if I wasn't so stubborn and I would let him go with his mother and then the mother's going to think. Well, why didn't I see this or what could I have done so he would that he wouldn't have left. Ah, could I could I stayed and make it work? What if I saw these signs? What? If what? If I wasn't sick in the first place to let him go, live with them and all these what ifs and that you can't change now, and I really feel for his parents and everybody that knew this wonderful kid. He seemed like a wonderful kid ball of energy and

And I hope for his sake, that we have answers one day. Right do you have a recommended reading for this week this week we recommending women who kill profiles of female serial killers by carol an davis. She profiles fourteen women, who used all different methods of murder to kill their victims. Each killer is the subject of a bert chapter, exploring their childhood lifestyle and sexuality there an analysis of the murder, the trial and the imprisonment of every woman. The author comments on how society may underestimate dangerous women and what it is They can turn an ordinary woman into a killer. Women who kill by Carroll and David

is our recommend reading. But you don't have to job that down right now, because it is listed, are right, amended page at true crime garage dot com in check All of our recommendations there and I'm very x, did about gettin in the garage next week. We are taking a look at a case that has fascinated the captain four year here, one that we have covered before, but were diving back into so until next week be good. be kind and don't let. Finding the music. You love shouldn't be hard. That's why panel

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