In new orleans twenty twelve bruce catch here, I drove to an address some one had given him that didn't exist ass, he stood in the park. What were the address should have been, he was shot and killed. I'm you d umbra join me for the newest season of counter clock. As I die, the motive behind bruces murder, A series of events that have never been fully investigated until now binge all fourteen episodes of or clock season? Five, wherever you listen to pod. support for this programme comes from arkansas escape to natural state outdoor adventures to indoor attractions in just a few miles or a few minutes near it all, but faraway planted trip at arkansas dot com. The

the. I welcome the true graham garage, wherever you are, whatever you are doing things for listening, I'm your hosts, nick and with me, as always, is a man whose ate a lot of late night, fast food and drink a lot of take home pay. He is, of course, the captain. Why didn't know we got paid for this? It's gotta be seen, and it's good to see you things for listing. Thanks for town, a friend,

Today we are drinking apocalypse cow by the hard working people over three floyds brewery garage, four and a half bottle caps out of five. You gotta check this complex double ip but there then go into the lengthy description. I'd rather just like to thank all the good folks friends me on untapped, so all the best, drinkers or there. If you want to find me, of course, I'm at true crime garage and a big shot out to John and michel from staten island for donated to the beer fund, cheers mates and also a big

thank you and shot out to craig hailing from fort collins colorado on another cheers mates from windy over in these brunswick melbourne, australia to make. We also have Jaclyn and stony creek ontario and last but not least, we have victor, whose stationed overseas serving this great country writes a thank you to all the men and women that are protected our freedoms and serve in this great country. A big like the algae it and, if you want to buy us around for next week, show go to true crime, garage dot, com and click on the doni button and make sure you subscribe to the show make sure you tell a friend make sure you go to itunes and write a five star review. It means a lot to us all right. That's enough! is now at everybody gather around grab a chair, gravel beer. Let's talk some true crime Lynn harbour was a twelve year old girl who does

peered on june, ninth, nineteen, fifty nine from the r c f station in Clinton ontario now, two days after her disappearance, linz body was recovered a farm. It was discovered that lynn had been raped and strangled with her blouse AL. On june twelve, we have fourteen year old, stephen tryst got he's taken into custody because he's last reported to have seen lynn harper. He tells the police that he sees her get into a car. They don't believe him and then, on june thirteenth he is charged with her murder. Now I kind of want to. Your line, all of that just think about how fast things are happening here, right so less than forty eight hours after her body is found. We have a fourteen year old, who was arrested and charged with first degree, murder. So a very fast investigation.

maybe another statement or maybe no investigating at all, is it would be the question there. On september, sixteenth of that same year, stephen truce got his trial began and then, on September thirtieth the jury returned a verdict of guilty scott through stevens accounts of events, one more time he picked up lynne on his bike at the school. They went at her request Right she asked for a ride. He said sure I'm goin that way, anyways they re on the road they pass the bush, whose what we call it then they pass the bridge. Then he dropped her off at the stop sign at state rule eight, and then he heads back to the bridge turns around sees her getting into a vehicle. Maybe a shiver, lay right yeah a chevy model or nineteen, fifty nine chevy, possibly a bel air gray and color. A lot of chrome brightened something

orange on the back. We don't know if it was a license plate or not, and then he heads back to the base and then he ends up baby sit in that night within within an hour bright. He is out of that area. So that's his story. Jani he's sticking with, even though he is now charge. He is now in prison. He is now waiting to the death penalty, but he's going to be hung. That's that that's! Oh, that's! The worst death penalty, I think, or your head being shot, I were, let's not get into that debate. I think that's a whole other show in itself, but the thing here is: captain not only do we have a very small, very short and fast investigation

we have. What I would say is a very fast trial as well. He he's brought to trial on the sixteenth of september and he's gets a guilty verdict on the thirtieth of september. This was supposed to be controversial trial. This was supposed to be a big deal because we have a fourteen year old, a minor who is charged with first degree, murder and oh yeah. That's a death penalty case. This was supposed to be a big deal. I'm surprised that the that the trial so fast now, when the jury did returned with a verdict of guilty, they did have a record station for mercy to the judge. The judge, however, sentence truce got to death to hang. As you said, I don't I don't think we need to look into this in end in judge what kind of judges is whether did the right thing or the wrong thing. I think here we have

situation where we have a certain type of crime was committed, and there is a certain penalty for that type of crime. I think, even though that there was a recommendation of mercy that just being he's a fourteen year old boy and that's hard to sentence that person to death, I think we have a judge just putting into place what is supposed to happen. And these type of trials it would eventually be overturned, and this would be commuted to a life sentence instead of the verdict to hang woke is actually supposed die, pretty cool please it wasn't like you know here or, and also at this is again the fifty. So it was like you know. Within months there were now you know, take out his sentence, but there was quickly overturned gap. We thought texas executed people quickly. This was supposed to be very, very fast execution. I think out it was. It was commuted to aid.

life sentence there. There would be another trial croquet in a big part of Was there was any author that wrote a good book called the trial of Stephen truce got an end this in this book. The author basically takes his side and says that he wrongfully convicted. So this is going to lead to people looking at his case again and we're going to learn some things that we weren't told in the first trial, and I think you're going to be able to see how we have a jury that comes out and it comes back with a guilty verdict, because there were certain things they didn't hear. The the first- and I think, which is the most important, is the time of death, and we discuss that regarding the stomach contents of lin

harbor, it was discussed that she had her. Last me all around five, forty five p m. She goes missing and the jury is told that her stomach should have emptied within two hours of that last meal. well, it couldn't empty within two hours because she was killed before that time had elapsed, yeah put in the time period between seven fifteen in some forty five, which makes stephen truce got look very guilty because he's, admittedly with her during that approximate time so he is most likely our guy. If you go off of that now One thing that we end up learning here is that that same doktor had submitted several reports regarding this and regarding the time of and those earlier reports that he was submitting had a much bigger window of time. You know he stating she died, some

I'm between seven some forty five percent fifteen, some forty five, that's a very precise amount of time. The earlier reports say that she died some time between seven. And about seven, a m the following morning, so a twelve hour window yeah because what happened with the trials once they put such a you know, exact time period known some fifteen to seven forty five, the scientists community comes out and says, hey that that's not how this a test do you know, and you can't have a you- can't pinpoint that accurate, so he actually went back and did the test again still put in the time of death between seven fifteen seven, forty five, but also an n parentheses stating or past

within twelve hours of that right. So again, this has now you're. You have a big gap and remember, though we have, I witness reports stating odd vehicle and the bush later that night yet way past eight o'clock, clock yeah, so the theory is did stephen. tat her killed her and left her in the bush, but then was able. Return and be back with other people by eight p m, no visible signs of injury on him, and we, when we have these other reports, when we start to look into this, we have seen some reports of a come out many years later regarding the insects and that the things that take place on a body as its decaying there is there is a scientist stating that she fur

well, he believes she says she gives it a ninety five percent. Ninety five per cent chance of accuracy that Lynne harper was killed after sundown and killed some time before sun up based on what she sees with these insects and their activity on the body. There is somebody else that states that she would have been killed before sundown. So I don't know that that gets us anywhere, but we have several different reports pointing towards the possible that she was killed at a later time. Ok, unlike the captain, said, the big problem with that is if there was a vehicle spotted on the loss in property- and this is a a dark coloured. Fifty two ford convertible. They found tire tracks in that area as well. This wasn't investigated. This vehicle was not investigated and I'll tell you. What

it wasn't reported to the police until after they had already zeroed in on Stephen driscoll by this point. They had already interrogated him for hours probably had already. Charged him by the time they hear about this vehicle. We don't need, information, because guess what we ve we got our guy, our guy has no access to a vehicle rights, That doesn't mean anything to our investigation. While big problem with this investigation, it happened so quickly in the charge happen so quickly than you, Whatever evidence. Now we have one. You know we have evidence common enough. We saw this vehicle, but we're not gonna investigate that, because it- nothing to do with our guy or our theory. So that's one piece of evidence, but I'm guessing normally and murder cases there are hundreds of leads show how many leads came in after the rest. Pushed aside. You know pushed aside because we already got our guy we're we're building a trial here now

we're not working on an investigation anymore. We got our guy and I what we have here captain. I think that we have an end the where I think it quickly circled in on this fourteen year old and if he is your prime suspect, I think these investigators, You know what it's only a matter of time. Before we get that confession, we I believe they thought he was guilty I think they thought it's only a matter of time because he's a kid he'll, eventually confess and then boom we got her trial. We're all done with this thing. What other stuff was not not worked on as part as part of this investing and one thing that I found very strange, was me many. Years. After the fact, their teacher came out and out, keep a minus was split level class. This teacher taught both of them even the day of her disappearance, It's very rare. I think that you have a situation where somebody knows a victim and knows the person that supposed to have committed the crime, and this teacher says he was never interviewed.

police asked him. No questions at all, that seems, seems a little buried and a little strange to me yeah, but this is a typical case of investigation having blinders on creating a theory and then try to make that theory stick now. This is a this is error. One, One right: this is the number one error that these and thus gaiters make. The first thing to do is yes, we do have a theory, then less prove that theory wrong I think if they would have done that they would have found that their theory was proven wrong. Pretty quickly get you? U speculate as too you think happened? Then? You have to go, find the evidence to back up that speculation lead you to the correct person to the correct suspect here they circled in on the suspect fur. one, the timeframe is really difficult. Because of this crime happened today would be pretty simple: less run dna asked will know they answer within days right, and I

I don't want to back up what we're talking about earlier regarding the stomach contents and the reason why I believe that the earlier reports of what the doktor was saying is probably more accurate than the later report, where he really zeros, and on that that short forty five minutes saying this is your time of death. Is it you can see that the doktor was kind of tailoring? His report is later report to what the investigators had learned during their short investigation, because in the early reports he states that stomach contents may have contained meet, it doesn't say they did contain me or they didn't contain me. He says, may have in the later report. He says that the stomach contents contained turkey well, did he get this information? This came from questioning her parents. What did eat for her last meal, o around five. Forty five that night she finished dinner. We had turkey for dinner, had again

whom all of a sudden turkey's in the report bearing this is this is ridiculous and not to mention that every eye witness that goes along with your theory, there's one that contradicts it or several that contradicted. So. My big thing here is: they have evidence that she put up a fight right right and there's no marks on Stephen said. Therefore he didn't do it to me. That's all you need. That's all you need that. You know all this other stuff doesn't matter to me. They've, you know cause they. You know, unless you're going to tell me that your theories that Steven and somebody else attacked her then where's the marks on his body right, it doesn't make any sense, will ultimately Steven truscott. He would end up getting out of prison. He would end up serving a ten year sentence.

And then he would be placed on parole, there's a bit of a weird situation here, where I guess the warden at the prison at some point became a parole officer and steve interests got went to live with the former warden. His current parole officer lived with him and his family, so that things You something about stevens character, yeah. You know we have somebody that watched over him in prison, feeling like it's safe enough to bring him around his his family bans even actually you know, ah fourteen, I think to eighteen- was and one prison and he actually was moved. There was transferred a couple, that's correct. There is a lot of concern that you know we have of him and he he went into prison at fourteen yeah. Like you know, this could be bad for him yes up, some people in the system and they never can get our well. So let's, let's keep that in mind because they are not saying that he's innocent.

but he's not serving the sentence that he was supposed to serve. If he was guilty of first degree martyr can we agree on that he's serves ten years. These paroled, that that seems like a big jump from a death sentence or life sentence. So you had mentioned. You know what other leads or possible suspects would have been ignored. say, and this is something that I found interesting, because you know this was from the ontario court of appeals. Many years later, these were arguments that were made before the material court of appeals, so the defence maintain that once ontario police officers locked in their sights on risk. Back in june of nineteen, fifty nine that the investigation like you and I had said, stopped indifferent in prince, took over and seemingly obvious lead

were ignored, including previously undisclosed information pointing to other suspects now, unfortunately, in this report that we have here the suspects are not named in the court documents because they have not been charged with anything. But these interviews include a convicted pedophile stationed at the arcy f base at Clinton. At the time of lent harpers death, the o, p p learned about him in nineteen, ninety, seven after being contacted by a retired, london, ontario police detective. Who felt that this man was bubble of murdering a child. The man had pled guilty to sexual offences and possession of child pornography in the late nineteenth eighties. When the police searched his house in connection with those offences, they found in eight volume transcript of true scots hearing before the supreme court of canada from nine

sixty six to nineteen sixty, seven and arrested also mentioned in this- is an error man who had been stationed at Clinton prior to nineteen, fifty nine. He was station at how high murmur at the time the martyr but had a home and see forth, which is close to the base which he visited frequently see fifth between sea third, see that you're going he was identified later by the c b c. This is the fifth estate show identified him as sergeant alexander, smelly, pants knows sorry sergeant alexander kallenbach, and I say I was close yes very closely: we'll get the cat check here in a minute, as we have more information on him, also mentioned. In this report we have a former salesmen who drove a nineteen. Fifty seven chevy an apparent he called at the Clinton base. Frequently the man came to the police attention after he tried to be

into a home of a retired, o, p p detective. This is bury rule who shot him with a pellet gun and then began. His own investigation in a report to the Opie p rule concluded that the man could be put to a potential suspect, and several murders, including Linda harpers, this case, the cases that he mentions have common characteristics, the victims, while a lot of more are listed as hitchhiking victims their bodies. Are clothes were dumped in what what were considered lovers lanes now? I wonder where they the closed folded. That's a good question. we'll get, will get back to that too, because we have some information on the salesman as well. Also mentioned we have a convicted rapist who lived in sea forth at the time of the murder and worked on the Clinton base. As an electrician at least one day a week, the man

was convicted in nineteen forty eight he had spent three and a half years in prison and had been to the harbour home. This is very strange. Ok, so we haven't he's convicted, is convicted rapist who had been to the harbour home before the murder was numbers here, while he was there to rip repair close drier. He was an electrician while there there's a connection I believe a lot of times. These people know that you now know their attacker, I'm with you there s an if she's in to vehicle not pulled in a vehicle armor. There was no report of a struggle, but did she know that individual somebody she had seen before somebody she knew entrusted, like you said, seem to have willingly got into the vehicle yan. If this sick piece of shit was in her house fixing the drier You know he probably would remember her name. Caesar dry, walking, pass dries by hey

hey. You need a ride, some land, you need a ride. Yeah. Well me to take you back to your house: yeah, pretty easy I also mentioned- and here we have a minister who is an accused sexual fender. We got, we have to say, accused he lived in a village just north of the Clinton base. He had been accused of sexual assault by his grown daughters years later, while he's real sick but one claims that when he was when she was six years old, she hid in her fathers com. and remain there when he took it out for a drive, on point on this drive he stopped on the gravel road and opened up the trunk moments later,

she claims that she saw him carrying the limp body of a girl towards a grassy treed area phase, where he spent about a half an hour before returning to the car alone right now, but some of these leads and stuff are coming out way after year, investigation yeah. So I mean be fair to them. Better get your exactly right in and you know what tat you know. Those are all very strange situations, but I've just come across a maybe even more strange one because I haven't my notes here, read through the suspect descriptions and then asked the captain, which ones jump off the age, they love lovely all. Maybe they can jump off. page and right into prison. For I mean you have to? U have to like the suspect that actually worked at the school and worked at the families house. Then that's a big can buy what worked.

base and then there were all right, we're at their house guess, but because those are obvious connections there, that's. You know that the attacker would have known the victim, and but all these scenarios to me sound a lot better than stephen yeah. They do, but the problem that I keep coming back to with this whole kay is that its very strange to me? Let's say that stephen is completely innocent. Let's say that his story is correct, that he dropped her off at the county line or at the county road. I wait and she was picked up by a vehicle. It Doesn't it seem weird to you captain that that who ever picked her up and then all mentally, ended up doing this to her that she ends up back very close to where she's pick extremely close to where she's picked up from

within a mile within a half a mile, maybe even a quarter of a mile from where she was picked up from rights. Are you saying that that strange and that points to stephen I'm saying that it strange and in the sense that it would, it would point meal from her getting into a car I'll say that in doesn't to me there The only reading goes all thy witnesses all thy witnesses that saw them right or didn't see them or stephen. It comes back. You can overlook the the big biggest piece of evidence to me as that They know that she put up a fight, and I know exactly what the evidence is, but I'm guessing blood on our hands in a faint may be broken fingernails from clawing at somebody, I'm not really for sure, but they know for a fact that her attacker would have marks on them and stephen did not.

so again: it's too small the window. He was doing a nice thing for somebody You know you need a ride. I'll, take my chances. Are that lynn, you know being the young, girl. Maybe she had a little bit of a crush on Stephen and that's why she asked stephen for riding not to walk with somebody else and and this Older boy gives her arrived on the bike and drops off, and several people see it, but again no marks on this boy right and I'm not saying stephen. by posing this question. I'm not saying Stephen what I'm saying, though it seems very strange to me that she would have gotten to a car abducted by the driver of their car, raped and killed and placed in a location. That's almost there. taxing location that she's picked up from why Billy with a within a very short amount of time. I I'm thinking I you know going the top of my head here, all the cases we ve covered all the case

we read about that. We see on the internet and how many can think of where a child is abducted and then the bodies found almost the same location is the abduction it just. It's gotta, be. Close to zero I mean I I can't think can you can you think of any now does not off the top of my head. But look you pick about individual now the motivation here, the sexual rights and I believe this happened like I said somewhere else and then in the process of looking for a place to dump the body You know this person might not have known the area super well and just drove around to find a spot and all walk. Oh here we go. I can pull off here, you know, and then they dumped the body. But to me I'm like I'm saying I'm just It's a percentage thing, I'm not saying it's impossible right, but they are not saying that it didn't happen, but what I

I'm saying is out of all the cases that that we reviewed and all the cases I've looked out over the years. I it's hard for me to think of that same situation taking place right, but one I'm also. What I'm saying, though, is that the person, the murder, right- did not might not have known that their drop in the body off so close to where they picked the person up at that's all I'm saying do it they would have no clue that there were turning to damn near the same place to that. I'm drop off something they picked up and there is a possibility, they might not have known it. Ok I'll give you what I'm saying I'll give you that, but you know off the top of my head. The there's. The only bull situations that I can think of where where this was even a possibility- and you know why would be the delphi case that we covered, but there's a big question: if those those were even removed from that what it area and then returned epoch float. I don't think that matters I I just think I

strange out any here, maybe here's another situational. I think the oakland county child killer think one of those victims was returned to roughly the same area, but they were held for days. I I is pointing out here that it's it's strange to me, the two to believe that she got into a vehicle drove away somewhere for hours and then was returned to the same location, I I'm not saying it's impossible. I get what you're saying, but I think we can agree that it does seem. It's an oddity I guess I always a lot more to get to read after this quick with ilo ass you get farm fresh proportion, ingredients in seasonal recipes, delivered right to your doorstep, skip trip to the grocery store and count on hello, fresh to make home cooking easy, fun and affordable. That's

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or clock season five wherever you listen to podcast. Support for this programme comes from arkansas escape to. Natural state outdoor adventures to indoor attractions in just a few miles or a few minutes near it all, but faraway planted trip at arkansas, dotcom. right, seers chestnuts chairs are so we have a suspect here in lynn, harpers murder, who stands out in this is that alexander logic and the reason why he stands on the reason why we bring him up. Is he somebody that a lot of people involved in this investigation or close to this investigation back and nineteen. Fifty nine believed that he should been somebody on their radar. He should have been so

married, he should have been a concern for them, and a piece of this investigation and it doesn't appear that he was so let's go over. Who college check is? He was born a nineteen twenty three, He was of the royal canadian air force. He was a sergeant who lived and worked in the area at the time of the murder. Now sergeant college was known to be a heavy drinker and from the stories I told there have been told, heavy drinker might be in Your statement use heavier than than us times before. oh he's. Basically, if you take what I drink him, what you drink and times out by four there, that's what I mean so he's a heavy drinker with previous convictions for sexual offences, so involving young girls now likely, he served in the air force during world war two, but he will

turned to civilian life in nineteen forty five in nineteen fifty. he re and rolled at the in the r c, a f and was originally posted at the station and trenton, but soon afterwards he was transferred to the station and Clinton. Now we know this from our case. This is close to our case here. served as a supply technician until nineteen fifty five, but in nineteen fifty seven he was transferred to another station This is located about an hour away from Clinton. However, college check made frequent trips back to Clinton where linz harbour, where lynn harpers father was the senior supply officer. While there is no connection there, yeah good possible connection We also have the situation that takes place about three weeks. Three weeks before lend harpers murder college check was a rest,

in charge by the ontario police for attempting to lure three young girls into his car outside of saint Thomas ontario. The charge was dismissed shortly afterward, but the judge gave college check a warning regarding his behaviour. Basically, the way this thing went down as he sees three girls walking on the side of the street. He pulls up to them opens up the card or he's trying to lure one, if not two or three of them, into his car. There stiff reports on what he was using two as a ruse, one saying you know possibly new clothes or new underwear when this, who underwear I thought yet now it seems like a strange thing, the offer somebody to gain car he wants a new underwear yeah like a time you hear that run free life. Well, I guess, there's hey come in. The garage

some new underwear, I guess there's lack of sufficient evidence because, like we said the charges eventually dismissed, but the judge gives him a stern warning. The warning goes something like this hey. I know what you're up to. I know that you are what you are trying to trick, though little girls into your car were gonna be watching you kind of thing that the kind of warning he got we are, while they should have said, hey, look but does underwear stuff right, no more How more you don't even look a little girls and if you do no new underwear for you for the rest of your life or run a hanger. You six son of a bitch, well that he a reason why colleges should have been on their radar for four reasons already stated, but more importantly, for this one in the early

part of june in nineteen, fifty nine we have caliphs probation officer, advises the air force officials of another incident of indecent exposure involving colleges in the town of sea. Fourth, not far from the Clinton bay, now on July. Second, just three weeks after the murder of lent harbour college check was hospitalized too, overwhelming anxiety, tension, depression and guilt according to the arcy f documents, but this is, after the charges are dropped. My right, but but he's here experiencing this overwhelming exact anxiety. Why engine depression in gilt three weeks after the or of lent harbour right. That's my point is that a lot of people would assume while he was charged with this, but they dropped charges, so he shouldn't have anxiety over that

the data that that's no longer on his mind right. The other thing that I think to me as like and go banco boyne go. Is that his eddie it sold his car and again, I think if you look at everybody that heard this story- lynn harbour story. They also heard about stephen story and stevens accounts and stephen, claiming that he saw a car on that he saw orange mean on the car, and I think that spooked him and that's why he got rid of the car. I also believe, like I said that the crime took place. At least the sexual crime took place somewhere else, and I believe that vote probably the car. Do we have a rough description of the car that he sold Ah I see could not find that ok, but it

it is mentioned that he sold his car after her death right. Okay, that's that's very interesting in itself, now called check drank himself to death in nineteen. Seventy five of his final days were spent in a psychiatric hospital in ontario. Yeah just seems like this whole case you know is long. Foresman investigators put their blinders on gone after Stephen. Not following leads. You know, I don't if it was ever reported, eva called was a invest did at all. Well you're right, it's never been confirmed that the ontario police ever investigated him, guarding the murder of land harper. Now I want to bring up. Somebody m shift gears here, a little bit. Captain we're bring up somebody. His name is bad rule he's a retired, o p p sergeant. He says that a traveling salesmen should be a suspect in aceh, of unsolved murders. He also believes that he knows the

daddy of the person who killed, lend harbour in june of nineteen. Fifty nine rule is the author of a book called a viable suspect. Rural said he first met. Who he believes is lynn. Harpers murderer, who we was Larry Talbot, although that's not, aspects, real name tablets, not you know, he's not been convicted of any of these things. Not a fictitious names and true crime. He's got he's, got family members out there and we have an author whose accusing him of multiple murders so choosing to use a different name He says that he met talbot during a robbery but its a bit more complicated than that. It's it's reported as a robbery. I've heard bury role story on this How this robber, who went down and one is like a good recommended reader. yeah. I want to take you through this. This story a little bit so bury rule his his now wife. Her name is pat

At this time, they warn of leaning they weren't living together. Pat had a cottage berry had a place elsewhere, but any one night. They have dinner, they have drinks and bury decides to stay over. That's the night at the breakin happens he's sleeping he hears allowed disturbing noise. He gets up out of bed. Only to a masked man with a gun inside this cottage. Okay, now so bury exited the bedroom in confronted this mass man in another room. Well, the first that the guy wearing the mask says to bury where's the bride or bring out the bride, something something of that nature. so he says you know. Let's leave her out of this. You know go ahead, you can I

I give you my wallet whatever. Let's leave her out of this, he says no bring her out here. He's got a gun, you gotta do what he says. So he calls for pat pat comes out of the bedroom. He tells the burglar tells pat to lift up her nightgown expose herself- and you know, Barry pleads with this. Guy, let's again, let's not get her involved in this. He insist so she lives. the nightgown. Eventually, what ends up taking place is that he that berry and pat are robbed. He take some money from them and asked. point. Bury he's he's a piece, a police officer at some point, he must have realised that this burglar does I have a real gun. He has a pellet gun, so he starts calling the burglars button. The bluff here because cause this guy's threat

ing them and he's asking them to do things that they don't want to. Do I mean pellet guns hurt, but I mean you can take one take a couple. So at some point harry recognizes this to be a pellet gun and he starts to challenge the man. That's broken into the home, and he says you know it. I don't think you're gonna shoot us, I don't think we're going to shoot us at all. I liked this guy, I like the cut of his jib. That's right, nice gip. The thing here is now the mass man he gets scared of, bury any fleas. The house will as a police officer he he sets out on chase, and he's chasing after this dude while he's chasing the do that turns around and shoots bury in the chest with the pellet gun very fight through this. He tackles this man and let me put it the: how can I put this polite? What does he say to him now lift up your skirt.

Me boy, to put it politely, beats the crap out of a guy. I very good right. I dont think this guy was out to rob the place, and I tell you why and Barry doesn't either because of things that they found on the sky. After he's arrested. Okay, he had four sets of shoe laces in his pockets. Okay, inside the guy's car they found they found his car park near by he had left the keys on the wheel and inside the car were his shoes and his underwear. So this burglar head he was wearing gloves and a mask carrying a flashlight a gun. He had a knife on him. He had four sets a shoelaces he had removed his shoes, so he could be quiet and also probably not to leave footprints

and he had removed his underwear as well, possibly for some kind of fast situation. If you need to be fast with your pants, I think too I like bury think that this man was there too, to rape pat to tie her up and who knows possibly kill her, but because, because this guy's one of a sophisticated criminal when caught in the act is able to turn it into a burglary bows. Is there to rob you guys anyway? This is how this this larry torbert guy becomes known to bury rule the problem we have with this in feel in phil, frida Gimme, the evidence. That said I am wrong, but he's breakin in two, possibly rape older lady, where they were all the time. They were they

in their early twenties night, but in the fifties that so older lady ok right? Well, it's older than our victim that we're talking about lent harper correct! That's what I'm saying sorry to say that it doesn't that part doesn't fit for me. Well barry rule believes this Larry tauber is guilty of multiple or well. Let's say this: to put it more accurately, he says he should be up a lead suspect in several unsolved murders that took place over a span of years in this area? Now, one of them one of these such cases was the murder of a oak veil woman. This is pauline dudley. She was age. Seventy in her body was found in located by a farmer working in his fields. This was in oak will, in august of nineteen seventy three. She was seventeen years old. The thing here is

the car they tauber owned at the time was spotted not far from where does leads body was found. And were police located him. They searched his car while they found the blood on the on the headrest and hair on the floor with other items in the trunk what they found in the trunk. They found a wooden dildo cream, a knife to flashlights brown sheets, a short sleeve sure inside the pockets of the short sure, where surgical gloves they bring him in because of these strange items that they find in his vehicle that spotted near the body of this unsolved murder. And when they bring a man, he fails several polygraph tests Long story short talbot, was never charged for Pauline delhi's murder.

It was one of those situations captain that we ve talked about plenty a times on the show where we have a group of police and we have a group of detectives who say we know who did this. We're, we're absolutely convinced. We know who did this. We got nothing on the We got no evidence, so yeah Have no evidence and we're not gonna make it up. Thank you. That's what they're basically saying that did it. How does that? We can't prove it and we did and were refusing too many young to manufacture, live as well does this bring us back to the murder of young land harper. By think part of that, you up. Something interesting was that you know linen was a young victim, twelve years old. I think this Pauline dudley thing shows they that this person is might be

capable of committing murder against a younger girl. I know seventeen different than twelve. I get it, but here's the big thing berry rule list, a number of reasons, a number of connections, but the one that stands out them is including the similarity between colbert, his tarts car at the time and the one that stephen truscott said he saw now truscott said that he saw nineteen, fifty nine chevy, possibly bel air, on the mean that lend harper went missing and we have, harbour, who has a nineteen, fifty seven chevy. So we have a similar vehicle. There's one problem here, though, the vehicle that toolbar at the time was a turquoise blue, now according to bury rule, we the situation where she probably disappeared, if she got into the car, she disappeared around seven thirty, some forty five sons

It was at nine o six that night so harry, would tell us that there is a chance that, with that sir, and at that angle, in the distance that we have stephen truscott from the car did, he may have thought he was seeing a grey car One thing that they share the similarity of is they both have a chrome on them. He did say, saw a lot of chrome. Now we have this law tauber? Why would he be in the area he's a traveling salesman? What is he so? hopes and dreams. Now I don't know what he sells. Murder. I dont know what he sold, but I do know this that we have very rule. The retired, o, p p sergeant law. He likes, he likes taboo for several murders He believes he should be investigated and looked at in several cases. All of these were ones that he was able to go back.

In time and he was able to confirm that torbert would have been. in the area or near that area when a murder was committed, or maybe he sold shoelaces an underwear I don't, I don't think he was a shoe. Lay salesman, or maybe wooden dildos, but you know we rule points out something interesting here. You know what better job for a serial killer to have than a traveling salesman. You know you, you could met a murder on tuesday. In down, and you could be out in hours away by wins or thursday. You know, and if no I saw you have nobody spotted you, maybe they don't have things connected to the crime? It I'm going to go with this captain with a little bit of a stretch. It's a leap, I'm going to say it's a leap, but he should have been investigated, but we could just make the argument that the case should

bessie gated period, yeah, and I mean he bury role list several other cases that he would like to see this larry tauber investing. for I am not going to go into all of them because, like I said it, it's a bit of a leap and we are here to discuss the lint harper case, but it certainly an interesting leap and one that I'm willing to take on a hopefully have to pick up his book. At some point I did not get a chance to read the book itself but I did see an interesting presentation that he did regarding his suspect are well. Let's get back to lend harpers case and, and so were final conclusions on this line harper case. Could we had a now a kid a sentence then released now he's out, but this seems like and after they let em out. They didn't really investigate this case. Now, it's it's! It's similar to the west Memphis three case

where you have somebody the ends up, not serving the appropriate sentence for the crime that their convicted of and later there released and then you to say that we can, we're not really gonna go back and investigate this, even though now it looks like we did never found the guilty party dad sad too. As you know, in this case, it's even harder, though, because the amount of time that's past, the primitive investigative who was that we would have been using back and nineteen fifty nine will. They actually went to test stephen, so they could get answers dna test, but when they went back through the dna evidence that they collected at the time, it was all damage yeah, so they can actually do the test and he was willing to take. The test

I think I did. It again shows another sign of his character. That's definitely a check mark on the stephen truscott side of that he did not commit this martin what're. What are my thoughts and opinions? It's tough for me captain because, like I said it's it's that one hour of time that there seems to be so many questions in differing opinions as to what happened by eye witnesses during that one hour of time? It's very tough! It's very. Can using. I do like that. We have an stephen tress, god's favor. I like that he spotted a visa. oh and then later we have very rule coming out. Saying hey, I suspect that has a similar vehicle right. I like that in his favour. What I don't like it that you give me a license plate number and that's not Jim number it doesn't work yeah. I think that whole part of the stories fictitious I don't think he saw a license plate. I think he might have I'm hoping that easy,

it's because I like to- and I know it does happen, but I dont want leave that this kid was killed by another kid, I think but he was scared into giving that license plate number. The problem that I have two with the license plate is me personally. If I see situation. Go down to the point where I'm going, to make a mental note not only of the description of the vehicle but a mental, no the license! Plate number can guess what it's not gonna. Take me till police come to me to ask me happened to lend harbour I'm going to be going to other, people are saying. Look. This could be nothing but I was, bill harper she's only twelve, and I saw her get into this car and here's the license plate number. I think some weird happened right. I mean to take us special. No, I drive past one thousand cars every day. I never buy, never make no of the license plate number right and begin again. This case is all about the small little

things that don't really matter until a tragic event, actually happens and me this is very much like a butterfly affect case. You know if Stephen wasn't so nice to give her a ride. Them if she won a ban on state rail, a at the time that there was a some somebody travelling in that area to pick her up right that could have done this crime. If somebody saw him if the dna evidence didn't get destroyed,

with all these little tiny things that, if they happened, we would have had to answer the and then the big butterfly effect in this case that we haven't really talked about much. But you you have a country that sentence a boy that is fourteen years old for a crime that I believe he didn't commit. He sent him to be hung within months of being tried when you didn't even spin months on the investigation- and this was such a black eye on the canadian justice system, that they got rid of the death penalty altogether, and as a stephen was one of the main reasons, for that was a good wake up call for them yeah. So this case to me is all these little. You know butterfly effects if Steven Dennett or what, if, ah you know, heck if stephen and lend actually went into the bush to make up for it. But maybe this does happen. There's all these

little tiny things that may could have stop this tragic event, but of really fascinating story. This one like, your eyes were research it in light of the first day of research, I really got into it in trying to break down all the different points of thy witness testifying and all that stuff and what's really interesting to us, the stephen went by a different name for so many years Now him and his wife actually have become experts on this case and they can break down all the testimony. All the eyewitness accounts that contradict what the investigators have and again rule number one don't create your own theory and if you do create your own theory spin as much as you much time trying to prove it or trying to disprove it as you do, try to prove it yet, and I think for me you know we talk about these tiny little moments for maids

one thing that I come back to that makes me believe: Stephen is innocent and underlines that, for me, is what what exactly were lynn harpers intentions that evening that we don't know we ve stories that she wanted to go see the ponies or She wanted a ride up the highway eight for some reason: she'd. If she wants to see the pony, she doesn't except the ride off The way there, what was that argument about that night Was she planning to away or run away from home and got picked up by the wrong person in that's why she wanted stephen to drop her off rather than take her all the way to the farm house. You know if, if we knew her actual intentions, I think that would give us a better direction, better sense of direction as to stevens intentions, and I maybe and I'm I'm with you captain

I think there we've got a couple, people that see him on the bridge. We got a couple of people that see them crossed the bridge that lines up with steven story. That makes that that makes that precise small little time window, even smaller. So do we have recommended rien for this week? Yes, this week, recommending a question of evidence, the case book of great forensic controversies by calling evidence scientific sleuthing and slip ups in investigations of fifteen famous cases, ranging from the suspicious death of napoleon to the murder cases of doktor, SAM, the fugitive, shepard and oj simpson. A question of evidence takes readers inside some of the most vexing forensic controversies of all time. In each case, Collen Evans lays out the conflicting medical and scientific

evidence, much like we saw in the lynne harper case and stephen prescott case today, our right. Thank you too. You captain thank you to everybody out there and remember we you don't much time we ever pre order of the douche canoe shirt, so you want to go to true crime, garage dot, com, click on the store page and get your douche canoe. Sure I don't want somebody saying six month from now, oh, I wish I were a guideline to lay not you know too late, yeah, alright, there's enough for this week. Thank you to everybody out there. We will see you back in the garage next week until then be good, be kind and please pretty pretty, please don't litter will kill you

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