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Eric and we have to dive right in because we are about waist deep in this whole madeline, mccain disappearance and investigation. We already covered a lot of stuff yesterday and still a ton more to get to today. We want to start looking at items and does it point towards guilt or innocence and of who, specifically the mccann family, so I will do is will start the day that she went missing, which or the nights when miss, in may third correct. So we have the timeline we discussed the timeline yesterday and but there things to look at inside of this time line versed of first of all that the number of times that the that persons involved

being questioned, seemed a little light to me captain. It seem like you know that that they didn't sit down with key players to to produce this time line? What wasn't until seven days later, yes, on mate, the kind of got a rough idea of what happened, but I dont know if they actually jotted down these notes or not there are. They also talk to some of the individuals that worked at the hotel but again there were more focused on the search which you know makes sense at the time. Ah again, I think investigators should have looked at this as the worst case possible. You know worst case scenario and also when you're shown up to us. seen and the mother is saying: hey the window was open. Somebody took my daughter make that a crime scene nodded do that so there's some inconsistencies here. Now they didn't get the tap his nines statements tell about seven days later. So that's a flaw and then investigation, but some of the stuff of the topic

nine stories, don't line up with each other correct, and some of that could be chalked up to well. It was seven days later and he just went through this world when forty eight hours of nonstop searching for this little girl one big problem. We have with the timeline itself is that it doesn't actually line up with what is given information given to them by employees and staff at the resort itself, rather seems to be a discrepancy that could go, but about thirty minutes. What do you think about that? Just jumping off the page there before we get into the timeline itself, the discrepancy between the resort staff and the the tap us not again. I believe that yeah, you look for the girl, you do a search by azure. Looking for the girl, your possibly looking for some other took the girl.

So I get that, but they should a locked down that scene for sure, but as far as lake the stories lining up, I don't know if it points to a guilty or innocent for that. As far as the mccain's go so to me, it's like to some moot point is bad investigation. I can't go back and fix. We can. Then, in the these individuals were only question one time this case has gone on for ten years. They could have been question more often see if maybe they remembered something differently. So as far as this, he's not lining up what the resort or with themselves and not to get points to innocence nor guilt, the thing, here? As you know, we you know, I don't want to sound like we're, laying it on the investigators to two heavy, because you know that The problem is: when you walk into a situation like this, you can't go ok, time out and free

time and take a look at everything and in and cover all your basis. No everything is still happening around you In fact, what you could do is locked down that scene yeah a correct and if, in fact, she's been abducted, while she could be potentially further and further away from you and that seen just within minutes and hours of of your presence, cracked, okay, so The other issue we have here is a nominal point something that we talked about last week when we covered the fit nail. Thing that I was really impressed with was the way that they handled that investigation and the thing that me the most was we had several investigators coming out in saying you know what we're king into something that there's no profile for we ve never showed up to a home before and seen a family taken out and then we abducted people from that same seen. There's we ve never seen this before we don't know how to react to this right in that

you're doing in the early stages of an investigation, you're ultimately reacting to the scene- that you are finding and what your mining within that seen. So I think one thing They did really well in the in the fifth nail investigation. Was they broke off into two teams and they said: ok, one team you're, going to focus on the abduction finding that the children, the other team you're, going to focus on the crime scene and in this this murder situation that we found you're right. I know that's tough to doing a lot of situations, but you know if you, if you walk into a scene- and you can say we're not really sure what we're looking at here. We don't know if this is an abduction or if something happened on site. If you could break off into those two groups and focus say you know what mom and dad and all of your friends we're gonna. The situ down and we're gonna have to talk through this while we don't worry,

We are not stopping you from finding your children. We are. We are covering. Our bases were good much needed very important information, because one we want to find out. can narrow down what time the girl was take. That's variant of mom and dad we're asking you to sit down your friends to sit down. We need to discuss this at length. Meanwhile, there will be. A lot of there were hundreds of people. That night, there will be people out there looking for madeline while we covered this process in a lot of the reports were stating one of the things that makes them look guilty as though they were just kind of around the apartment, five a and they weren't actually looking themselves. But again they called an authorities right, they didn't it wasn't like that the resort had a con thirties, they ask for the authorities to be their car, and so does that point to them being guilty or innocent. Neither because they might just.

doing what the authorities told them to do. I think it points to their innocence and the fact that they did call for authorities and then, when those attacks he showed up and things didn't seem to like makes sense, the mother stated right away. Look this girl was abducted and when they start same old as possible that she ran off she's gone. there's an open window. There is evidence that points to that she was abducted. Another key piece of evidence in this whole thing at them in the early stages of investigation, is that kate, Mccain sheets She would state that she wanted the fbi involved. She wanted higher authorities, because this town wasn't known to have a big law enforcement presence, and so she wanted higher ups to come in and help now if you're guilty. Why would you want that the other thing here captain this might be something that the investigators were very inexperienced.

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I read one report stating that Portugal has a significantly lower child abduction rate than a lot of other countries out there, so might be something that is foreign to them, and so, let's take a look at the timeline. Real quick. Is there any thing that that jumps offered the page immediately. The first. The first thing that I look at here is: we have the kids quote unquote day care center, where you can take the kids to be dropped off. They can be They can be watched by there's nannies at the resort. Right now, so our first question about the mccann's behaviour would be well if your gun out to dinner. Why not take your kids took to this end?

to be watched by nannies by professional people and they can be picked up after I think most people that look into this case all pretty much agreed that what they did was began, some form of neglect and some part of some form of bad parenting. Yes, I can kind of understand it, and we differ from this, because I've seen video footage where the mccain's are sitting at the bar at the top is and that they take a video footage and they zoom and they can see their goal, their sliding glass door from where they're sitting cell would that make you feel a little bit more comfortable yeah, but there's street access to that sliding glass door that you're leaving unlocked and possibly the front doors possibly unlocked as well. So, ah you know it's. It's definitely a form to collect well and what the captain

means by he, and I differ on something it's about. We we disagree on whether the mccann's could see the back patio to their apartment or not. Now I want to throw this out there in the cat. This is actually I'm going to defend the captain, not myself, even though we disagree I watched Some video footage that was pretty pert presented, as well as some photographs taken from an area of that top restaurant right now I was told the person conducting the video as well as the per and that release these photographs that he was or they or positioned about where the mc hands were from his position. You could not see their patio. You could see the top of their apartment, but this is why this is. I am defending the captain ones. I saw the photograph and a video thing. I didn't look any further marceau. There could be other angles out there. There could be other evidence to to go against what I'm saying here.

What I found the limited amount, the small sample size that I saw you couldn't see that area that, regarding the day care itself, captain You know you mentioned. There was about fifteen bucks an hour. Maybe they were being cheap, my kind of kind of the way eileen here and I agree with you- I want one hundred percent that this negligence on the pair on the part of the mccann's right. The thing here is, I question: did: did that day care? Did it close it like nine p m, and this would be after they would they. You know nodded desirable time to return home the other here is a lot of people. A lot of parents are big about keeping very small kids on a certain schedule and they d. like two, they don't like to stray from that schedule too much. I wonder if it's because its past Their bedtime, they thought they could just simply put the kids to bed and come in and check on him from time to time where it

a lot of about neither here nor there, because you know we can't go back and changed that, but the fact of the matter is as far as behave goes. There's nobody in the resorts that ever said that jerry or kate Mccain were in strange in any way? Nor did they say any of the tap as nine were. Any of them were acting strange. Now we have that we also have the situation of the last photograph taken of madeline. This boy where the parents say that the picture was taken. It almost two thirty p m the clock on hammer reads about one thirty I am in them a can simply later state that the clock is off on the camera by one hour to you. Do you find any suspicious b you're here anything that points towards this would not only comes. I haven't girls. I think it's one of those points that people bring up in this case like that, like it's. A big deal is a word

about this earlier, it's kind of like the brandon loss in case you feel like if you can solve one line that maybe you can solve the whole case right and I think any big case like this. I mean job any ramsay, casey anthony the thereby these minute details and if you can solve that they can solve the whole thing, so they people that bring up this last picture book theirs yeah, because they were trying to figure out the last time that that she seen alive, and so the the reason why they're doing that is conserve, trying to say why if we make this window bigger right but and she actually

picture taken at one thirty and not to thirty. That gives them less of a time for there to be an accident or for them to accidentally o over dose her and then hide her body right. There's a couple problems with that. We have one of the tap at nine that claims that he saw her about six thirty. But there is also on record, I think, like five five thirty, that people from the resort saw her. Well again, this picture doesn't matter because we already have people see in her afterwards, and that leads us to our next thing. Here we have David Paine who, just after six thirty, he stops off at the tennis court. He talks to jerry mccann for a second and according to what report you here, either jerry

ask David to go check on kate and the children at their apartment and five, a or david ask him all where's, Kate and the kids and then decides to go up there, and it doesn't matter who asked who, what, in my opinion, but like the captain said, we have David payne, saying that he He sees madeline during this time. One thing that has fallen into question the law. he'd investigator early in the investigation, who has, I should point out, has and removed as far as being the lead investigator in this He points out a major inconsistency here. He states that he has some reports from the top as nine stating that David pain was at the mccann apartment for close to thirty minutes, where you have kate mccann stating he was therefore more like thirty seconds are one minute.

he's there for a very brief time period again, a lot of these details that they're haskins him about come seven days later after forty eight forty eight hours of crazily crazy. Is that even a word crazily That's just. May I'm gonna stick with that their raisonably looking for this three year old child. That's on the vote, vocab test in the computer yeah pewter and pewter land. Sorry about that, but The thing here, it's analogue it it's fourth of July, were low loose. Sorry, I think it me to me this does matter, because after this guy leaves after David pain leaves were we only have the mccann's after that saying that madeleine's, ok and then she's at the apartment

So, to me, this thirty seconds to thirty minutes does matter. The problem I have here is: why can't you just? Why can't you just tell me that you know there should be. There should be a way, figure this out. You, if you have multiple people saying one story, is true compared to the other than you would like we believe that that story, as is more believable, because you have other accounts of that same watergate. Ok, here's! Why does Madame much one? You sit question him again, but they did. It is a question of multiple times. Issue question that night, this questioned the next day that they should have. They should have seven days of stories and and then look some of that stuff is going to change, but all that changes the time window is by thirty minutes. So it either goes from four. You know maybe four hours to three hours. I know I just said thirty minutes, but it's it

and change it that much for me we're talking about. Maybe he sees them at six. Thirty may be stays till seven. So then the police are called about ten o clock right, so yeah a three hour window that something happen, and you're gonna have to new gonna. Have to hide this body now mind you that at six thirty one he's talking with jerry Mccain. He has our long tense lesson so here if we get him back to the room for another hour right. So I hate him. This lesson would have started at six and it would have finished at seven, so he would have. He would have been returning deep on whose story you believe he would be returned right around the time that David pain be leaving if, in fact, David pain was therefore approximately thirty men right and he does this matter. Maybe it matters because it changes as far as the time line goes, but it doesn't please either in a sense or gill towards them,

so we have a situation here, captain where we have jerry and kate Mccann. They are arriving at the top as restaurant, approximately eight thirty five. It says that they are the first couple of the group to arrive, and now we know that all of these grew members are leaving children behind in their rooms and checking and then periodically now I've heard you usually when I, when I talked about this case with with friends and and whoever in the past, you know cause this case has been so popular its non than ever, and it's not the first time that it's been you know brought up as far as over drinks, right. But the question I first hear people say not asking me indirectly, just asking everybody is who goes out to dinner and leaves their kids at home. Well in this situation, all of them-

every every parent in a group did. The only person there without children was was a grandmother by in mind you that you know if you, if you have as sick feeling about this, to make you feel low, more sick. They did this. This is the sixth day of doing this right. Exe. I have the there's, there's conflicting stories of that, but this wave not five night yeah. This was definitely not the first time. At the very least, it was the fourth or fifth time that they had done it on the trip. It sounds like it's very possible. They did this every night that it was a very routine trip that they, you know they did a drop. The kids off at the daycare during the day went out did something spend time with the family dirt. You know afterwards and then its kids go to bed parents go down to the top as bar and restaurant, to eat and drink right now, but hear me out on this, though I mean think about somebody that had no decent house re been to buddies, they got a decent house, they got a pool

and I was just hanging out with my buddy, the other the other week or so he has a nice house. Sliding glass doors opened up to the pool on the other side of the pool as a little like bar area, like I don't know which want cause, it's basically like a little shack that he he made right now if it was at somebody's home, same distance. You know fifty meters Nobody would ban- and I you know that say all the other out by their pull bar drinking and through the back door, wasn't locked because they could see it and the front door were assuming is locked in. then the kid goes missing. I'm betting, and I just because of the children's age, I think it's it's a little young

it's a little early for that, but I'm not going to tell anybody how to raise their kids. I'm just saying I wouldn't have dwell in. I believe one of the groups they actually had now, not the mccains, but one of the other sets of parents had actually a baby monitor. So I look, I think it's definitely you know for neglect and if the mccain's could go back and do it all over again, you think they do that hack. Now, here's where we have our first problem. In my opinion, you know we those are all been items that have been discussed in and really been debated did too to the end. So far. I don't see anything pointing in the direction of guilt or not guilty here's where we have our first problem, in my opinion, nine o five june, I can return to the apartment ice. during our timeline yesterday that he returned to the apartment through through the unlocked patio door to check on the children now one the big problem here.

that this story has changed. The on On occasion on at least one occasion, jerry reported to the authorities that he in fact went through the front door which he states was locked at the time, went through the front locked door to check on kids and, on another occasion, says that he went through the unlocked back patio door. While, let me explain this, like I said they, they did. This probably five to, let's just say, five to six nights right, so the first couple of nights. What they did was people would take turns checking on each other's kids, but they all locked their doors doors, and so they had to have the keys to get into the doors.

right so when you're asking some seven days later, he's not remembering one night he's remembering multiple night. So and again, I think the Mccain's even said that the first feud nights that their there they actually didn't, go through the site, sliding glass door. There were actually going through the front door correct. So again, inconsistent seas of stories, but in that the place always point out that you know the the mccain say that they're gone through the sliding last door, but all the other parents for saying that are going around to the front of the building, while the ones we're going around to the front of the building where the ones that were on the second floor, because that's how you got to the second floor, so there's inconsistencies there right cause. You can't enter through your patio. That's on the second floor. It's a balcony right so is Is it inconsistent as he being a nefarious? I don't think so. I think he's dismiss remembering, but when it comes down to it, white comes down

was what he says when he opens up the door. The door was open up a little bit. He looks and he sees the twins, but he can't necessarily see madeline. Well, that's only possible if you're come in through the back of the room and not through the front door, because if you open up that front door, I saw her first well. Did you would be the first person in sight? I sideline eyesight line. The thing here is captain We have it. We have a issue because one would Why would you why would you stray from going through the front door? Well, in and then changed the backdoor that the thing here is, it's a longer rout, you know and they said did they were worried about noise about waking, the children that could be it, but it's all. A longer rout. If you look at the route taken to enter the patio compared to the front door, you almost feel like with the front door. You almost feel like you're walking out of the reserve.

leaving the resort your b on the wall, your now travelling along the street to get up to that front door where, if you are going through the patio you pretty much, You like your staying within the walls of the resort, and it's almost about half the trip when you break down the time to get from. You know if the comparing the to the patios about half the trip while right and if you go through them, if you go through the back door, ah, you backsliding less door, you just have to peak in to the room. If you go in the front door, you have to actually go through that room, so you can take a leak or whatever Jerry says that when he's in there he sees that the door is now open quite a bit more than what he thought that they had left it when they went to dinner. The other thing

here too, as he would later report, you know that he he believed that he felt some kind of press. Looking back. He says he felt some kind of presence in in the apartment. My I believe he did yeah and The thing here is well what about the window, and I know we will- I know we kind of come to that at the end of their timeline, but this is something we should keep an eye on and monitor as we go through the timeline right, because right now, jerry not reporting the window being open right right now, jerry's reporting that the door to the bedroom blow shot because he created some kind of draft depending on which way entered the apartment. Ok, The window to the wall, let's get into, window right after this quick beer. the

in new orleans, twenty twelve burst catch. Here I drove to an address some one had given him that didn't exist as he stood in the park what were the address should have been? He was shot and killed. I'm You d umbra, join me for the newest season of counter clock. As I die. the motive behind bruces murder. A series of events that have never been fully investigated until now binge all fourteen episodes of or clock season. Five. Wherever you listen to podcast. Support for this programme comes from arkansas escape to natural state outdoor adventures, to indoor attractions in just a few miles or a few minutes near it all, but faraway planted trip at arkansas dotcom. This spring transform your outdoor.

Space into a regular gathering place for you in your loved ones, with help from actually whether you're into wicker, teak or driftwood inspired furniture, we ve got the look you're going for add an accessory like string lights and beverage tabs to take your patio party from basic to gear, aided and enjoy cosy evening vibes with a new fire bit visit, ashley dot com or start by your local store and find affordable. Pricing and expert support today show can save today. Only it actually right. Welcome back to the captain, the colonel shell cheers let's get out of the window, yet cause there's something. Would we gotta get to the window? First right. So, let's say Let's go with this at nine this is when kate is supposed to go back up to the room and check on the kids. Instead, we have met all the field.

rob Russell o Brien. They are leaving the table to go check on children as well, so mad then offers that he will check on cates kids, while he's away from the top which is not going to be very hard because he can beat did the patio doors or unlocked, and you can just go in that way, matt and check on the kids relevant. We have some problems with matthew, old fields, statements, and one of them being the he doesn't physically see madeline Mccann. He states that he kind of just you no kind of peaked in the door. He thought the door was open more than than what he was told. It should be. You know there at the time didn't matter anything to him. He didn't know that the mccann's left the door close. He didn't know the jerry found the door open and then closed it more. So he notes that doors open. He just kind of peaks in he sees the twins seas, the twins. He also just kind of lessons with the order here don't

anything, nothing. Nothing seems wrong here, everything's good, I gotta run in check on some other kids and then I'm back at the restaurant other thing, though, that he points out here the thing that I think that is very important. Is he also even regardless, whether the doors open slightly ajar all the way open whatever he doesn't? He had no, time gives any evidence to point that the window is open at this time either. So no evidence from jerry or mac that the window is one there's no evidence of the window. Open, because there are multiple times that different people had to walk around to the front of the building. by then walking around to the front building. Maybe they looked over, but they would have noticed if you know cause there's this metal like little tiny like what we talked about like a almost like a garage door and over the window that has to be open. I think people wouldn't have noticed that, with their walked by the

of the building right. So the thing here, though, now we have ten o clock and kate goes to check on the room, and she states definitively she's got that she's got that little peace in their about the door, slang shut or the door blowing shut, and I assuming that it's because the window is open and she's created some kind of draft by opening up the patio doors are or whatever creating a draft key seeing the door to shut revolve experience that before all right in and look at to be fair to these parents, amene look any time that you'd have to check on kids. You know, like my my steps and used to sleep upstairs by my room. If I go to the bathroom upstairs, maybe I would like you know peak in a balance. He both of em, but I can listen in

you know. So that's an uncommon. You know, and so I I I assume this is why it's a big deal about the door moving is because I think when kate went in, A lot of these trips that the the parents were making to check on their their kids were all it was also. I got to use the restroom, you were drinking, I gotta take a pee and so I think sometimes just like when jerry says I win, and but I I don't really know if I or when they say when they sorry I'm a little discombobulated. Now I can't even speak okay, I'm just going to keep gonna screw it up so I think some of em just went in to take a p and then they're going to listen right, and I think this time. This is why it startled her as cause. I think she wasn't really going to check in on him. Think she's just going to take a leak,

right, right, right or or or give a listener walked by the door right in that woods. That would suffice. You know, but then all of a sudden, the bedroom door shots, and then she said. Oh, what's up with that, so, what's up with tat says he opens up the door and notices the windows open right. So, let's, let's, let's not give our opinion yet on this situation, right, because I want to move on to the next thing. She then fleas. She then after looking around the apartment, looking for madeline, She then leaves the apartment running back to the restaurant tooth. I did and there's some differently of what she said, but the one that is is repeated ever single time- is that she says that they have taken her or meda she's, basically stating that they ve that she's been abducted, Madeleine's been abducted. So now

that to me I've never liked that statement. I always thought that that was a strange thing for her to say: and you- and I have had this conversation before new point out- a very good thing there, where you say well, it's only strange neck to say that until you're, errant and you ve seen the window wide open in the same room where your daughter was once sleeping. So I guess that I'm on your side with that I I have a little issue of her running to the restaurant. I dont know that that was my. That would be my first go to, but again I've never been in this situation. I don't know how I would react. One thing that I don't like as well. Is it is. It seems that she left the the smaller children alone in the apartment right to go to the rest to report what she believed she she found break, Again, though, we're talking about a pretty small distance, you, no one could argue that she could actually stayed on. You know the balcony.

And as yelled yes, she could a shouted from the patio in, and you would think you you could hear from there and also they they had cellphones jaffa, cod or text. I That would have been. If I could put myself in that city, wage and if I had to be in that situation now I have the benefit of sitting here in thinking about it. However, I think that would the go to for me to run out on that patio and his shout from the mountain top and hope. The hope that the rest, you know resort stay or your friend near my friends and family. Hear me in in all come running yeah or I mean again the thing that I haven't thought much about to you you ve brought it up is that she did leave her twins That's the thing which her or way younger yeah remember when we covered the columbus case, where the wear them and said he was in the woods with his wife in small child, an he went ahead of the group and he discuss.

A man beating a woman to death- and he he d to run out of the forest and run too Local business and call the police right to me that when unsolved for many many years- and I always thought found it to be very strange- that he would leave his seeming defenceless, wife and small child behind where this maniac is and then run out, and in call for help where ass may be the window open points to her that that that the person has fled, she did check the apartment and didn't see anybody in the apartment. I, but I think at that point they weren't hearing on the side of caution before when they left the kids alone. I would think by this Though you are snatching up those two small children in europe, taking them with you to call for her a possibly or just I'm going to run out there, and maybe she didn't make it all the way to that. Maybe she only made it twenty meters, you know and then came running. Also. This would this would actually,

ec sense on why that the window was actually shut? because you're looking around and you can't find your daughter now- you put two and two together in you're goin ways. Second, I think somebody came through this, I think so they came This goddamn window rights or the new slammed the window shot, and then he could take off run in hay. They did they ve taken our, when I need help so that Explain why you, when the debt detective show up in another p say, while the window was an open right now, Let's just go over the evidence on the window, they did take fingerprints. The only fingerprints that they found on the window or anywhere by the window was from Kate ray again would make sense cause. She was in that room. She was in that apartment. Five, a for you know seven hour six days,

at that point. I don't think they even took forensic stuff for fingerprints for a long time afterwards, so which is odd. Another new fail by the investigation. Well and here is captain list discusses window because the it's been said that the window could not be. It's been said that the mccann's stated that the window was closed in the shutters were closed, and then you have some people stating that you could not open the shudder from the outside and I described shudder, its metal slats it like the captain, said it looks like small garage store that would could drop down and cover the entire window itself, its controlled by a by what people, say strapper accord and reside in a police as police system that would that would open up this

I mean little garage door and then it drops closed yeah. You wanna think of this as like, like a chicago storefront or new york storefront, where they have the metal that slides down in front of the storefront so every morning they have to lift it up. You know, and then you see the storefront, then you pull back down when you leave for the night. Here's a look at ten years of talking about this case, ten years of people looking at this case, all they had to do was test it. They tested it. They had a guy in his fifties, maybe sixties detective! All you have to do is go up put a little bit. Pressure on it and it lives up a little bit and that allows you enough to open up the window, and then you put your hand through porn the poli and it goes up. Look you have, it I've seen it on video fro, but for this to work a couple things have to happen. When I first looked at that window and looked at the shudder, I was very impress because, unlike okay, this is not just a shudder to keep the lights out there. Is a shudder at its purity, the sick

and shudder it's a security issues, the thing here is I when I first looked at it, I thought you know what that to me. Here's to be a shudder that you could. I believe you could when it from the outside just by appearance, had not even having seen that tests conducted read. My next thought was that if I were to force their shudder open that I would cause significant damage to it or a good deal of noise that tests that you showed me. It appears that they didn't have to come damaged and shudder, and it didn't seem to create much noise at all, no more Then it would, if it was normally going up, are normally going closed. The the You here, though, is to get your hands the window then window needs to be unlocked correct that the latch lock would have to be unlocked for one to get their hand in to pool the thing the root of the remainder of the way up yeah. But I think this goes out to the investigation they didn't test the stuff. Earlier.

didn't ask the right questions about this window enough I mean I dont know if them keynes had this window open up earlier or not right now. The thing that's the thing they were were asked from the gecko. You know what was this window? closed and was it locked in the mccann's said you know what we can state sure we can say that it was closed, but we can't say definitely that it was locked and, second of all, you know when they interviewed the staff, the resort staff, the cleaning crew said. You know it's not uncommon for us to come into an apartment and open up the wind while we're cleaning and then closed them before we leave therefore cans could have never even operated the window ran. It was. I've done locked vice by somebody. This their previously or the hope, the resort staff. I think I swallowed a bug.

Yeah- and we know that this security system didn't work too well anyways, because these these little grudge doors, if you will or not on the windows anymore, they actually place bob cars on the windows yeah, and I tell you it that's the selling key to me. That's what sold it for me captain. I you showed me that test and I thought I might be wrong about this, but sort of for me with having a background in property management. I know that that's extra it so Much of a budget business. You know you work within the budget as far as improvements go of your property rights and therefore, if you do when a good job you never pay for any improvements that are not needed so by the resort placing bars over this window. That tells me that the people there,

in the property that run the property and operate it. They believe that you can open up those shutters in those windows from the outside, and I just think with all like. I said, all the evidence in the little tiny details of her stating that the door shut, which you know you'd, think that her coming in the back door would create some kind of vacuum or something or some kind of current to to make the door shut. So what those little details to me that points to them being and that this was a dutch him yeah, I'm with you that the at the things regarding the window points to stranger abduction. To me, I, but I'm gonna, backed up by saying that cakes behaviour during that period, points to of to there to them being guilty to string. I find her. I find her behaviour to be strange so at by this point until nine o clock with jessup directed or stand that, but but up until ten o clock. I have now

in pointing me in the direction of guilty or not guilty now we're sitting here. Ten o clock, ten thirty and I ve got one strike for guilty and one for not guilt. seems like with all these big cases you know and the true crime world there's always like one little thing about each case. Now, like the? U take west, memphis, three, for example by it. I have a hard time getting around the fact that there is a high witness that says: Damien echoes in his girl from coming out of the woods. That night

I'm get around. That doesn't mean, I think, he's guilty, but I have a hard time get around that now. With this case, we get these. These cadaver dogs who got these blood sniffing dogs, have a hard time get around some of this. Yet these are like specialty dogs and when I say that, because they they have their own unique specialty that they do so we have to. We have two dogs right wing. If we have eddie he's the cadaver dog he's the one they can locate human remains and its in its just human remains. It's not. You know animal carcasses or anything like that. Then we have key LE she's, the blood dog and the way that I've heard it described and read it in reports is that she can detect the smallest amount of blood indifferent locations. Now, how do they these these? Two dogs? Not only do they have their their specialities that their good at but

They also have an extremely good track record and I think it's something like over two hundred cases where these dogs have been right, but How do they prove that the dog is right with a dog whether it be the cadaver dog or the blood dog hits and alert the handler that there's a cadaver or blood there later, even They can't, they can't see the blood they can test for it and they can find traces of blood there, thus backing up that these dogs have a good track. Right, but that's also like saying you know: lebron James is the best because he's one two hundred basketball game, While may did you lose you? I mean there's nobody, perfect nobody, but nobody is even stating how many there they ve been wrong. On that. I can't find anywhere so here's what here's, what happens is a long time afterwards over seventy days right Yes, so this would be in July and remember she missing in early may, and so they bring in these dogs.

They're gonna go through apartment. Five, a and amongst other places they they're going to adventure down to the beach and at throughout the resort, but it the troubles for the mc can start in the apartment yeah, because what happens here is, and you can watch the these videotapes. Itself on youtube, but every now and then it seems like the dog handler, makes like a little. You know arm motion or then the dog start barking about something ah and the dogs end up barking by the ah, by by the in the family room by by the couch right and then somewhere in the bedroom, and so we will. Let me describe these two dogs, because not only not only do they have their their

civic and job duties, but they have different ways of alerting. So the way that I understand it eddie remember he's the cadaver dog. He is trained to only bark when he believes he's detecting a cadaver or you know human remains, but he will. He will get to a spot that he thinks that he's detecting that and he's just going to get bark. But you know he's gonna rap, rap, rap, rap rap. Now the other dog has it on. Some has a different method. Ok, she kilos when she believes that she's detected blood. She will do what I know what I believe called it like a silent alert where they were, she will put her nose or her face. in the direction of of what she believes that she's detected. So we have two different behaviors by dogs now I will say, I watched a watch. The video footage from this- and I was I was, I was a little confused idea,

notice, the the handler, the strange movements by the handler, like you said there, there's people that suits his arm out. There's people that are saying that the handler was directing the dogs to behave a certain way. I saw that outside of the apartment and we'll get to that, but within the tests conducted in the apartment I definitely saw that the dog seem to be in arrested in the couch. They were also claimed that they were interested in a stuff, the animal of madeleine's that they were interested in some loathing this belief belonging to Kate and the thing here is I didn't see any definitive behaviour from the dog would lead me to believe that I saw multiple times where they would walk past, that the clothing they would walk. Stuffed animals. They were, the dogs were other than the couch seem to be behaving strangely

and they were hitting on the couch and, as you said, it was the the area behind the couch that they seemed to be really honing in on right and but then they're also, I mean the cadaver dog went pretty nuts in the bedroom yeah. I'd say look I mean we could go through every little, my new detail of that video watch it if you're interested, basically what the police, because of these dog because of these dogs and how much they've been right that the police, basically the portuguese police, came out and was like you know what his what's happening. What we believe is that there was an accident may be from the couch to the window. She fell.

Broke her neck or whatever new guys covered this up, because you know we have blood samples. Now we got dna and we're going to test to see if there was a dead body in this in this room. So that's what they came out and then and that's that's the that's the direction they went into this investigation. They stopped thinking about an introit, cruder and said: look we got now. We gotta, you know, get these get kate and gerry to be found guilty of this, but the dog, the cadaver dog, also hit on the car. Now this was a rent at rar and we haven't discussed the rented car yet. But

a placed several vehicles and I don't just mean I twenties yeah it twenty thirty vehicles in this in this parking garage and they space them in even amount away from one another, and the dogs checked all of the the vehicles, but they hit on the mc hands vehicle. This is a rented vehicle. They are, they are detecting some kind of smell or hitting on smells from the trunk area of this vehicle. The strange thing, though, was this was a vehicle that they rented twenty four

or he has any for days after she went missing after she went missing so so their theory then became that. Well, that's no big deal because the the mccains hitter her body thing when they came back to Portugal. They rented this vehicle and then they put her n on to the vehicle and then they drove to spain. Now they actually did drive to spain. The first day to put fliers out for the missing ship for their midst in child, but they also had a film crew with him that day so and it's videotaped so the one day that they drove to spain, that the police are saying that they dumped her body. There was camera crew in the back now that camera crew was friends of theirs, but again now you're going to say that these these two parents that have no, you don't know history of violence, no history of any criminal activity that they accidentally killed. Their daughter,

or their daughter accidentally died there covering it up and they got nine other friends that are helping them cover up, and now they got this camera crew, helping them cover it up it's kind of far fetched. Let me throw this at you to captain, because the the statement there's that they would have moved the body bright and hid her in what one would guess would have to be better, hiding, spot right or or cremated or or or whatever you some. Of getting rid of the body here. We're thing: would you would you risk so at this point, you ve technically successfully hid that body for over twenty days. Would you would you risk being detected moving

body after you've successfully hid it for over twenty days unless you hit it in a manner that would be incriminating to yourself. It just makes no damn sense. It's it's very questionable. Now and now here's a here's. What happened cause? We got move this along little bit right No. So what happened then? Is the portuguese police then bring kate in for questioning right, we're going to get back to the dna results and all that stuff of what the dogs found, but they bring her in for questioning she goes in about like four o'clock five o'clock she's there to like one am right: they basically offer her a deal and the deal is we think you know we lay it out with. We think that it was accidental death. We think you guys covered it up. We think that you were involved. We think that your husband was involved, maybe somebody else, but we're just going to pin it on youtube, but we understand that

I have young twins, we understand that your husband is a physician. He makes a bunch of money. So what we'll do is we'll just charge you with it and we'll give you we're going to give you a plea deal for two years. He has spent two years in jail All I'm saying is your offer two years you probably feel guilty anyways, and why would you do this? Why would cover up your your daughter, death. I don't know, but if you did while this a pretty easy way out right? It's a very good deal for what you're being accused of it's amazing deal and she didn't take it to me. That's it! That's a sign of her being innocent and that's a sign of the husband being innocent. Now, let's get back to these dna result. Yes, so this is a tricky item for me captain, because what I'm seeing here

is it they cannot rule out the dna in the blood. They cannot rule out that it's not balance, but they cannot rule that it is hers right out of ninety markers, which is very low. Normally dna tests have more markers than this. For whatever reason this test only has nineteen markers now, I would actually argue that there is a chance that had the they have more markers and that so only fifteen of the nineteen markers matched so that doesn't rule out that it couldn't be jerry's blood or could be a kate's blood either right because they're, you know they make up the dna of their daughter. As well the soul, but it also sounds like they couldn't rule out. Maybe a stranger and in this situation you know it we weak. We can not say that its hers. We cannot say that its

mars right, but but then there is arguments to that. They feel like some of the blood samples were of a male right and off hastily she's a three year old girl. So these tests are so weird to me and I wish theirs. I looked for me, stuff I couldn't find or what has in russia too, in and out here and on some other show where there are talking about that. There is definitive proof that there was a dead body in the apartment by they well definitive proof other than what the dogs right that's that's my problem and that seems like a bold statement that make when all when your hearing this information second hand- and all you have- is a dog, the and, like I said, the behaviour of those

alex I'm not a handler. I don't understand it, but the behavior didn't make any sense to me. I didn't see a dog going directly up to an item and staying on that item right, right, yeah, yeahs and who knows but at the end of the day die. Then I could find that you know showed proof that there might have been a dead body in an apartment. Five eight would have been the dogs reactions, but as far as like some test goes, I haven't seen it so again. This a dna evidence doesn't prove to innocence or guilt correct so we ve talked about them at cannes quite a bit. Now we also didn't fully. We didn't fully clear the potential situation of a stranger abduction right. We talked about that a lot, but let's get back into that because as of recent, there's been some more developments as far as that being a likely possibility. The first is being.

man by the name of david red. Who is he, while he's a convicted british sex offender? He moved to the area. Where matic madeline mccann went missing in two thousand and four. This was, you're being released from prison for sexual, abusing young girls he was living approximately thirty miles from where madeline staying with her family. This in two thousand and seven, the other thing that the thirties are looking at is a certain certain behaviour that was going on so too from two thousand and four to two thousand and six in it. We're gonna have to extend this area out, I'm going to say in the area, but we're talking about a large area of thirty forty miles yeah. So there there's twelve break ins and these are all break instep two people staying there on vacation during these break ins, whomever is doing this

they are assaulting sexually assaulting girls it or of the ages between seven and twelve. Now I want to be clear here. David read as a suspect in at least one of those break ins, maybe a suspect in all twelve break ins. Weird cussing, an area that is so large, in fact that authorities it took him years to realise that there is a potential that these are actually linked together right now as far this investigation goes yes, that behavior what all into somebody that might go into the apartment and abduct, madeline Mccann. That certainly follows that behaviour people breaking into different vacation homes. The problem here, though, captain is in the twelve incidences that we have the, These are stating that they have over. They have thirty eight persons of interest in those cases, and he is he's just only one of them. One of thirty eight one, also david breeders,

deceased yeah, he passed away in two thousand and thirteen, and they believe that he moved there and two thousand and four, because at the time Portugal had no sex offender registry. Yes, and also or other things is not only was he may be involved in these break ins in these sexual attacks. But there is also some other claims once he started becoming known in the community and people start saying, hey guys look into this guy, some girls came forward and made some claims down. Those charges were never press so technically innocent until proven guilty

but this guy was a traveling like he would sing and play guitar and bands hip hop. He I I know of at least one confirmed where, because of these attacks, he was attacked himself, why he was playing oh really like they they went. We know what this guy is he's a he's. A pedophile ah he's committed crimes. He has some allegations against him. He might be crazy. more crimes and they they pummelled, then right in front of everybody. So does he to me, the descriptions pseudo right, but as we mention there, there's a lot of people that would match some of those described in the end- and I actually, in my opinion, be he's he's not as close as some of the that you know he's not as close as jerry MC can, in my opinion, very true, but yeah yeah

vaguely matches the description. Yes, a one or the other theories about this was not that it was abduction, but it was actually a burglary that went bad. Yes this. This is come about what just now year year and a half where scotland yard there saying that they are looking for possible links to burglaries and bogus charity collectors in the area at the time they have at least two of these e fit images of portuguese men that they would like to identify there were Four separate sightings of charity collectors on the afternoon of may third at prayer delusion where she was taken One man approached a property here the ocean club at about four p m and that that afternoon police say there was all so a very large increase in the number of burglaries in the area. In january and may back in two thousand and seven in one piece, we'll scenario like the captain pointed out? Was

madeline not assuming nobody would be in this apartment that it was going to be broke into they were going to steal valuables and that madeline had disturb a burglar right. But you you go and to grab a tv and oops. I got a kid outcome on gimme a break. This is the dumbest idea that this is dumber than most of my audience. I do want to stay on this for ot for a you know, so these collectors, these charity, quoting quote charity collectors that they're looking for whoa. How did this come about? Why did they stand out so much? Well, these were people that were walking around and collecting money for different organizations, but one did they were collecting for was orphanages and how to I know that these are fake charity collectors because when they would get engage in conversation with these people that they're trying to get money from they would say on collecting further, orphanage in this city. Well, the police are like that. Your report

to me, are you sure that's why he said because there's no orphanage in that city so they learn that these are. These are con artist and They believe they don't know, they believe that there is a link between these two fake charity guys and the increasing in the burglaries in the area, the thai? Yet as the idea would be well, let's go in with charity, and even if we don't get any money that we get information and if we get get some information we can go. yet, when we when we say that there is an increase in burglaries in the area we mean like within, and whether there is walks in the resort within blocks of the resort, I think there is in that area within area right, there's three within seventeen days of her gone, missing, correct, and there was a break in like a thing, seven days before them five a right above them, so but again the resort done that they didn't want. Tell you this ended. The resort doesn't want to tell you all by the way we were tom, the thought

these hey. We need to stop this cause. This is bad for business and this is going to get out. So I guarantee you, they didn't tell the mccains hey, you might want to make sure everything's locked. You know, like that's, no excuse. She shouldn't leave your kids alone, like that. but if you would have heard about these things, maybe it would be a little more on high alert, but they don't want to alert you about it, because it's bad for business and then that the cops don't want to bring this up because it's bad for business, so you got these cops pointing finger at the parents of a girl that went missing when they they know the that there has been. Or break ins in that area and the last seventeen days. That brings up the question of motive captain right because we're talking about I'm with you it as far We're talking about a burglary, gone voucher here with me, I'm stuck with you were in the crow we're talking, a burglary gone bad. So I break into a place I'm looking for cash and jewelry. This is something that I've done multiple times ravishes course I do

all the time every weekend lindsey, I add new mike's, I get side and I'm startled by the presence of a little girl who might even be too young to identify me seeing that she does not know who I am and you dont know if she knows karate or anything, so I'm gone two, going to abduct that girl. As a you know, what may be this kid? more valuable than what I came in here, looking for, or maybe I'm going to abduct her, because she saw me, I think, this- is a job. This is a bit of a our. This doesn't feel like their reaching here captain where they're, like you know it there is, we were see. We see this uptake and burglaries and me It's no coincidence that this happened at the same time that a small girl was stolen from an odd. What's weird is this: is the theory that come in from scotland yard please so that has nothing to do with the portuguese

please ever had something to do with the portuguese police. I would say, while this makes sense, because they don't want you to fear for abduction, they don't want to fear for sex trafficking. They want you to fear to some breaking breaking gone bad, but but it's weird that it comes from from the scotland yard, please. I think this is stupid, that the motive it's purely it's it's sexual sell into sex trafficking this ridiculous. So look, that's the muzzle. Without even discussing it, you want to dismiss the what what motive the mccann's might have so. We have we yours too. that the motivation would be sexual or some form of abduction, motivation, the mccann's woods it seems, like their situation, would be a bit of a leap for a little bit of a stretch and reaches well for two.

a motive out of their their daughter accidentally died, gather physicians if I walked in and their daughter had an accident they're going to call an ambulance they're going to call somebody for help: they're doctors, they took an oath. I have a lot of nurse friends. They took an oath, they take that serious, but captain they they were sedating their daughter and she died possibly of an overdose. Why? Why would they? over that up again, it's easy within second, you call your ambulance, what happened she got into this medicine. Yeah looks like candy. She ate it. We ve had this problem before yeah or I accidentally gave her a dose and my wife did. We made a mistake. We ve got fumbling with the pills before you know, with its easily explainable. So Where does that leave us all stating do you believe them? A cancer are innocent and have been victims of of some bad luck here or

or do you think who islamic it was their only daughter and that there are like hey? You know what, if we can read over we'll just we go party with casey anthony now now that stop. You know that is ridiculous. They had twin It took a long time to have madeline like did. Even if they're going to be able to have kids, it was a you know. They they've dives, like the miracle child these these these people were thrown under the bus great when people didn't do their job and didn't do their investigation and I think still, I still think there is motive from the resort from the community. Ah, you know There is there's even signs that are painted, like on the stop signs of a stop mccain or stop madeline circus, because they don't want this publicity, while its

You know. If you gonna have people gone and taken vacation sphere place, then your police need to do a better job he needed you by your job, the parents needed to do a better job. Ah, you know it's a very miss its misfortune it, but I think they got thrown onto the bus. I cannot decide, To be honest with you captain, I know people like that when somebody sits there on a fair in opening aside, here's here's the fence, I'm sitting on. I have them. and on one side I hope it's a short and stranger abduction on the other, and I feel like this is an easy out, but I feel, like I dont- have enough information to go either way with it. I do see some subs sit. What I think is suspicious behaviour on the part of the mccann's by, but I also see things that point towards they didn't do

the therein lies the problem. The window for me is key. If that window was open. If we found somebody else's fingerprints on that window, I would say I would never look at the mccann's again so the window. For me as key one thing here I'm going throw this little theory out there in it's slightly different than than some some other ones that we already presented, but lead investigator, he's gone on to write a book he's gone on to do a documentary. If want to dive into those I go for wreck I recommended he's was very close to the king. The thing here is, though he was out. You have to read the subtitle, yet he was also removed from the investigation and my understanding of why he was removed was because there we have scotland yard, we have british government. They were enquiring about one of the employees at the resort and he either for to respond. To that.

Inquiries or he failed to investigate this individual now the thing. The reason why I like this theory is that the employee, like that member, I said, for me, the window is key and when I first saw that window, somebody that has a knowledge of the way buildings work in it and knowledge of security. That window appeared to me that I would have to do great amount of damage to it to get the shutter open. How ever an employee, there might know that. That's not the case that you could you. jimmy that shudder, open and mostly these windows or unlocked and I'm gonna break in there and I'm take something that I want. So I I throw that out there to everyone, I dont and at the time you do have to be registered sex offender kill. You can get that job correct. So That's one thing that I would love to know more about. Unfortunately, I think that you know is this case solvable, I think, with the ever.

instead, we have in the information that we currently have. No, I don't think it's currently solvable what what will help solve. This is if somebody comes first. Word with information that we don't have or unfortunately, if they find madeline Her remain if they find her remains, there's a possibility. She could be alive out there somewhere. I think that the way that they and her and where they find her, could point us too, who is ultimately responsible and cut a couple things you know this This case is huge is away. I mean this could have really been like four parts we probably broke it down a little more clearly, its is so much the timeline. If, if nick went through the timeline of ten years, there would have been like it it's so much. So we I want to put the old look at more on the idea of here's, something that points to maybe they're innocent or maybe they're guilty so but those deadly alive?

more to dive into this case. There's also a bunch of sightings we haven't talked about those basically might take on any sightings of her being alive. All the pictures that I have seen just my gut feeling. None of them are her, except for one that I have a hard time your mind. theory as more that somebody new that she was there breaking a man not for sex trafficking but for their own sexual. Desires or whatever and then with the media, storm got too big. He had to get rid of the body he had to get rid of the girl. That's my gut feeling, but when I see this surveillance picture of her and the like convenience store to me, my gut is tommy. It is her. So if that's true

then. Where is she and who has her, and just before this summer they were making announcements to everybody that was traveling anywhere overseas to take a picture of man with you and look around and look for her. It's ten years later, they they're still there still some hope out. Yeah and there's other little things that we didn't talk about like you know: well the mccains when they talked in press conferences, they seem cold or just some of that stuff I mean, I think those are little things that that that's not going to help you solve a case. You know, maybe it it it. It puts a say and on the mountain, but the though you really need to get the meaning the potatoes, while this was certainly a heavily requested case- and I want to thank everybody for requesting- it were actually was number one requested show in the last couple months, really sire. I don't know it's kind of weird.

how the world works like. I don't know if it's like we're all connected with this weird energy, but man it's like every other day. I'd get one madeleine mccann, I'm like where's this coming from this ten year old case how about a little recommended reading here. Captain you know about a week or two ago I watched it great movie a watch, the movie called split by I shall milan, it's you know, I'm not gonna. Tell you too much about it, because you know we don't want to be the the podcast that gives away movies yet only like a year yet, but I watched it a couple weeks ago and it was brilliant, but it reminded me of a story that a true crime story that I had read years ago and I found out that m night actually used quite bit of this book for his research, when he was writing the movie split. Today, we're gonna recommend the minds of billy mulligan by Daniel keys. Now this is about a case that place and columbus Ohio way. Back that day

billy mill again. He was a man tormented by twenty four december personalities battling for supremacy over his body, a battle that call made it when he woke up in jail, arrested for the kidnap and rape of three women and a landmark too I'll billy was acquitted of his crimes by reason of insanity. This is one of the most interesting cases out there. I recommend picking up the minds of ellie mulligan by Daniel keys, and you can do that by going. true crime, garage, dot, com and click on our recommended page, if you like the falls on social media, do so instagram cigarettes stance at facebook, all that stuff at true I'm garage. We hope everybody had a good fourth of July. If you're on vacation this week be good, have a great vacation until next week be good behind it.

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