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try true crime garage, creating all the spam all right, everybody gather round grab a chair grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime the the hello jamie. Thank you for joining me here in the garage today. I'm excited to talk about your new book madman in the woods. It's quite the interesting story. It's quite the interesting life that you had the kind of scary when you think about how close you were to well, the man

man in the woods life next door to the Unabomber Jamie's here to talk about her childhood and growing up next to ted convinced, as casuals. This is jamie and, as short and simple, to put it, you grew up next to a serial killer I sure, did. I grew up just less than a quarter of mine well away from TED Kaczynski, the unabomber and sometimes when I say a quarter mile, people are like that. That seems actually kind of far but it's rural montana, and so you have to really think about the landscape there and- and you know, and and just to give you a small amount of background

family purchased about nine thousand acres of ranch land decades before taxes and ski came to link in an enlightened. Seventy one, my grandfather sold one point for a car to ted and david kissing ski and that one point four eight per was on the friend of our ranch land, and so since nineteen, seventy one to nineteen, eighty six went had with rested our family and taxes and ski basis They were sharing our backyard and me specifically, for you know most of my childhood you're, quite a bit younger than TAT

so you are only living next door to him. For what about fifteen years? Is that right, uh, yeah, you're, you're, very close? I was born in nineteen eighty, and so he was arrested in ninety six. I was sixteen old when he was arrested and described this area forests, the the the land your family owned and, of course, the one point. Four acres that ted in his brother, so. The area that I am from on lincoln montana is We were all like. It's it's about! A thousand residents. Giver take depending on the seas in the town is very small and has a linking stoplight not even red and green ahead. So you can imagine how do you know that it is very, very, very tidy where TED specifically lived was close to four miles from the tiny

town of lincoln, very isolated rural area surrounded by pine trees and when he bought that land and nineteen seventy one there were very few people living out there, and so obviously that really did appeal to him. As the years went on. There were a couple more were here and there, but I'm really there. There weren't it wasn't very populated. So my my family, my dad, of course dad you know as as seemingly fellow mountain men do, was always looking out for ted and trying to help her, because that's kind of how the community worked, and you know because of that they did form

yeah it almost you know it. It seemed on the surface of friendship in those very early years, so you know that the place is very rural, but the community is very tight knit, and so my you know my father really tried to care for ted in in the way that he would for any other neighbor he uttered was a very. kristin guy, a very odd character to relief. Will you know when we covered the unabomber case, while back a year or so ago, and I really dove into who he was and tried to get an opinion on his personnel,

what he and his makeup? Even you know thousands of a thousand miles away and all these years later and really just what I could pull off of pages and not so much the experience you had where you met him, face to face on multiple occasions and live next door to him essentially, but the vibe I always kind of got. He was the here. We have this guy that, yes, he they moves out. You say rural, but you know like. I live in a rural area of ohio to call you or area rural and mine rural at in the same sentence would be insanity because To me, like you, living out the middle of nowhere pretty much and it for sky to move out under the middle of nowhere. It gives you there's a vibe like yours is: do that wants to just

on away from everybody else said he hates society hate he hates all that into society entails and he wants to be by himself. He wants to be left alone, but at the same time, I glad I'm glad that you bring up what you did with your father and in the way that the mountain men would work, and they would check in on one another- and I imagine your father's going over there every couple of days or or the just drop by when he happens to be in that corner of your guys's plot of land and saying hey: TED how's, it goin you, you know any problems. You know you just kind of check in with each other as neighbors I would in any area, but but it's more important here in this area, because you're talking about a situation where somebody could, god forbid, they have a health situation and pass away. They cannot be noticed for four days or weeks if nobody's there to check on them, if not longer, but with ted. I was kind of got this five that even though he

once in seems on the surface, like he desires, is hermit style of life. I do think just like every other human being, though he was someone that needed some kind of interaction with others and in in actually desire to, even if he would tell us otherwise. I think he actually desired human interaction and really probably starved for some type of meaningful friendship that he just didn't have and and that maybe he didn't allow himself to have, and you met him face to face, and your father knew him and my close to being right here. Actually, I you're pretty spot on, especially in the what I while the early years for me so that late seventies, early eighties. That is when TED Kaczynski was,

still coming over to our family's home for dinner. He he held me as a baby and will end and asked to hold me, and you know there were still late night card games between him and my parents, and it in my book and mad men in the woods, I do really try to uncover that like was that was at a cover for had was it he was he trying to create this persona of being. This normal neighbor, or did he really still at that point? Have a desire for connection and end? I don't know if full we'll ever really get to the bottom of that answer, but either is still a part of me that really does

leave that he he still, he still needed that and even as the time went on, when you know he was deep into his reign of domestic terror who can read his journals, any sort of sea that as well, because he's writing every single day and, when I say, journals their basically stacks of notebooks that were found in his cabin, but he is detailing everything about his day. You know what he's eating, what he's hunting, what he's reading and, of course, his crimes as well, but when he writes it's as though he's writing to an audience and that one so has always made me think that it was his own way of some sort of almost communication with the outside world. the only the only safe way he could do it was on.

It's mimic like he's, writing somebody a letter rather than keeping a personal journal exactly exactly with some sort of in his mind, connection in communication with others, even though it really wasn't- and that's interesting too, that he was doing that, and I was aware of the these diaries. I kind of pictured him as being something a little bit different, but but didn't do a whole lot of research into those particular diary. So that's interesting to hear, and that to me was in some ways reflects the typical behavior of a solitary man. You know waste. We will see that similar behavior from inmates where they're locked up for long periods of day so the of the day, so they will write down and all things that you and I would not. You know what what I had for lunch. What time lunch was what books I was reading and so on and so forth. It's all these little my new,

details of their day, but it's a way to pass the time and to record the time in a way but he's doing it in a way that it then it would be almost that he is presenting it to an audience or that he had he's he's communicating with some one, and I think goes back to what I was thinking and what you're hitting on there that I do think it away. As as alone as he seemed to want to be on the surface again. I I do think he was starved for real relationships. I don't know that he had the ability to to have them or to have any type of lasting, meaningful relationship it's almost like ea. His personality was his own prison. While writing that book. I did I connected with David Kaczynski, his brother of course, and and I mean that was that was one perspective- that I found obvious for obvious reasons very interesting, and he no kind of said the same thing, especially with there with them.

Installation that ted shows. He was really just stuck in the echo chamber of his own mind and you know who knows was, if that continued isolation field him even further with with his campaign, did you meet his brother David before the rest of the world knew what time was up to. No, I didn't so ted and his excuse me, David and his parents had come out to lincoln in the early eighties for a few visits, but we actually did not did not meet them and did not see them, but you know TED definitely destroyed that relationship and the last time that Kosinski came out

was the mid eighties and after that you know, TED decided that he didn't want anything to do with his family. So we- did not. We did not them, and there were very strange encounters as a child with with ted and many times he would come to our home and knock on the door and ask what time was what day it was and is so. I would tell him, and his reason for many of those encounters would be because he needed to go pick up. His brother in the town- and it was it, was really interesting. Because when I was writing the book and talking with David, I had told him about that, and he was like, oh that that's definitely very strange, because the last time I came to visit you know was the mid eighties, and this was definitely

happening that into the nineties. So that always made me really wonder too, and something that I wrote about as well is, if he's still in it and part of his mind, had the desire to see his brother, because it was such a strange thing to say or again if it was just a cover, because he Did you know what time it was truly because he was potentially catching the bass and to go plan to bomb so yeah? very, very strange things from my childhood once we, you know, as an adult, can really look back and uncover what was truly going on yeah, that's interesting, it's it's either a cover or, like you said he still had the desire due to be close to his brother, who we know he was close with at one point in his life, and we know that David helped him build. The shower

Her whenever we want to call it had, was living in that's interesting about kind of having a cover for catching the buster to plant these bombs. But we do know that ted was writing is, mike into town on occasion to for the post office. You know like where, where I live, where most people live, there is theirs. A wonderful lady or man that drives around in a little truck in hands out the mail and puts it in mailboxes and such and these smaller communities we you have to go to the post office, not just to send something out, but to retrieve your own mail and sewed ted would go to head right into town on his bicycle to pick up. Male drop off mail, and I bet we, he was visiting a small, a very small library that was in town. Yes, I tat. go in and out of the town of lincoln and he acts we did have a mailbox on

on the road outside of his home, with his name on it, but he also you're right. He did also have a p o box and in reading some of the letters, the correspondence between him and his parents, his mom specifically- and there were some times where Wanda Kaczynski his mother had sent dried fruit, or you know some sort of provisions at in a package to him and the box was too large to fit into his mailbox, and so they held it at the peel at the post office and tad would have to go down there right as biker walk down and it enraged him. I mean. Reading reading the scathing words was really actually pretty difficult to see what he would write to his own mother, but I mean looking back now. You can see, I mean obviously it's the unabomber, so there's you know, there's

mix of whatever's cling on there, wisdom, potential, mental illness and the isolation. So it's easy to see where the words are coming from but anyway he would have to walk or ride his bike into town and go to the post office. But he would also take time to go into the lincoln library, he would sometimes go into the grocery store or garlands town and country as it was called back then, which was like a general. Store and at at those locations, he did have people that he would sit and talk to he had found. You know just a few people in town that he was comfortable conversing with But it was very very few as much as he refused to believe that

was crazy in your calling in the mad man and I actually believe that he was very deep and psychosis by the time that he was apprehended it's difficult to. I think it probably started rather young, maybe in his teens or early twenties, and I think it it becomes. slippery slope that you just keep falling down a little bit more, and I know understand that every case is different, but I'm looking at ted specifically- and I just wonder with the you know- oh I have to pick up my brother. If it was more of, could have been his his mental, isn't. It illness kicking in of retrieving mail or or hoping to retrieve something from his brother in town. Talk about some of his. You know, you said I come over and play cards. I would imagine it's difficult playing cards against someone with a genius level. I q talk about some of your interactions with him at the house. What you remember in your young childhood

sharing a meal with the unabomber, I would imagine as As a young girl, you're, probably sitting there watching dad and ted talk about, you know all sorts of things So when tat cause and ski was coming to our home for meals still, I was a baby, so I dont remember those visits bought in writing. The burke I got to sit down with my mom. and you know she was able to really detail what that looks like and what that felt like, which was very compelling because in those early years. As you were saying you know, through the years he was probably deep into his psychosis. when he was coming by and asking the time as such, but when he first came to lincoln, he made it very clear and in these journals that

station for choosing this lifestyle was revenge, one thousand nine hundred and seventy one. So that was still very present, but he still had the appearance of the berkeley. Professor a bit he didn't. You know he didn't quite look like the man that was, from his cabin and nineteen. Ninety six completely disheveled with his clothes rotting off and you know, stood on his face so in the early years, when tablet I'm over it wise. He was always a bit strange, and I know that my first memories of him. I don't when I really truly look at them. I wasn't scared. I wasn't there was. There was no fear present when

He was at the house or you know when he came over to help my dad and things like that. But definitely, as the years went on, those visits became much more alarming, and did your parents try to keep him at a distance at some point? Yes, they did in you know my son, my mom and my father did get divorced in and my dad remarried and my stepmother was not didn't, have quite the relationship with as my mom dead, and so there was definitely a change in that dynamic when TED would come over ages was

Quite the same, he wasn't coming over for dinner. At that point he was you know, though I talk about in the book. There was a day where he actually worked on. My dad's saw mill and mice. My stepmother wendy was his boss and it made for a pretty difficult day of labour. For all. And the dynamic definitely changed the nr. You know in our family over the years and and unit ted, wasn't ted wasn't quite as friendly with my parents, and there were plenty of disagreements between my father and ted, especially in the nine as in as as ted's,

inept tear continued and, of course, as as his mental illness, probably deepened. So we talk about disagreements with your father and said, but there was some strange things going on that at the time probably seemed very strange and may be random, but then aid or knowing who ten actually is. You have to have your suspicions, it may be tat, was involved or worth the the sole perpetrator of some of these items so lets the song about to strange of events in particular would be. There was some kind of sabotage at your. Your father saw mill, which I believe that was covered in one of the maybe the netflix special, and then your this is incredibly terrible, but that you're you're the family dog, your family dog

I was poisoned at some point yeah, so there were plenty of acts of sabotage in the lincoln area that I uncovered. While writing this book, and of course I can't say for sure that ted was reason, if the bowl for all of them, but there were a few. Definitely that- and he admitted to- and one of those yes was the sabotage of my father's saw mill. It was sanded, which just means that you know somebody had put sand, We didn't know at the time

my dad initially had he did have some suspicion that it may be ted and had confided in one of our neighbors like, oh, I just I don't. He said. I don't trust him. I don't know why, and the neighbor Chris, you know was like oat ted. Couldn't do that they think about it, like he is just an eccentric hermit. My dad finally kind of accepted that and moved on. I will be honest when yes, when he was arrested. Of course, we were like. Oh, you know that most likely ted, but I didn't know that it was absolutely one hundred percent ten percent ski intel participating in the netflix documentary and hearing the review. That's on that dark and tat is, is bragging about it and admitting and saying you know that he I think he calls my dad

an asshole and says something like I have this neighbor but scaring who's an asshole or something like that, and you know my my goal was to put him out of business. and so hearing that and hearing what you know what he did could. Finally, you know provide some like concrete closure, and you know my dad has passed away and I I really wish that he was able to hear that because it would have her have really. You know confirmed a lot of a lot of his thoughts through the years I mean. Obviously, the arrest was a big wake up call for everybody and had solved some some mysteries for sure, but that specifically weightings cupboard and tell the documentary aired to yeah. That was one and then there was another pretty horrific event,

meanwhile, when, when I was writing this book. I had interviewed other neighbors and was. During all of these horrific stories of other, cats in the area being poisoned and pets being stabbed and horrible deaths. Such our dog had been our dog wiley, had been poisoned and had a pretty slow death, but at the time the veterinarian had confirmed that it was strychnine that the dog had ingested, and it as horrible as that was- and you know- and there I definitely had some. I guess concerns that it was TED Kaczynski. You know there was strychnine font found at his home win and the f b I

first, the cabin it wasn't again until I was writing this that I found a letter that TED admits to killing a dog I neighbours dog that was sneaking into his garden at night. I think that way. Is, I mean it was a difficult moment for me for sure, because I know this sounds really odd, but knowing a killer as a child is I mean to put a lightly in a very strange experience in a hard thing to reconcile as an adult, because I do have these softer memories of him, and I saw him through this different lens and I trusted him as a little kid.

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islands natural's eric drops to healthy summers and beyond available at walmart walgreens target and see bs claims based on traditional homeopathic practice, not accept the medical evidence not after evaluated the. Hmm. Alright, let's get back to mix interview with jamie, the author of mad man in the woods talking about unabomber ted Kaczynski, yeah. I can hear the the inner struggle that you have there and it's something that I can't you know nobody can take away from you or nobody can relieve you of that. But it's something I really wish that it's one of those situations where that's what separates you from TED? That's what separates

me and you and a whole bunch of other people from somebody like ted, where you have enough compared, and in your heart and empathy there. For somebody like that, you can look back on but he s terrible as this man is in his horrible. His as his deeds were as evil as he was that you can still you still Look back and go. He wasn't always bad or there was some good in him or or there was something that you saw, that was wasn't pure evil and he would never feel that way for any of us. it's it's hard to really kind of wrap your head around on that. But when we talk about the destruction to your father saw now and then a dog being poisoned. Maybe he poisoned other dogs as well in a ted was so he eat

His makeup, especially the older he got to me, was just somebody that was so incredibly jealous, spiteful and hell bent on revenge. I think it rings true when we hear him say years. Later, all man that I live next to he was an asshole saw mill and in and tried to take down his operation because That's who he is he's hell bent on revenge, and he he personally feels all I bested that man I want In the end, I one, even though I didn't play fair, even though I played dirty and oh, by the way we work some weird competition that this other guy is even unaware of, and I was jealous, him for reasons that he would never even know or understand. But all in the end, doesn't matter, because I want I bested him. That's really

me what a lot of his destruction and chaos and death that he caused was all about, and in so many people in this we talk about difficult to wrap your head around so many people you see them on the internet, go! Oh! If anybody would take the time to read his manifesto, you would realize how brilliant and how smart and forward thinking this guy was, and I read the manifesto in the whole time, I'm sitting there thinking yeah. He sent bombs to people and and with total reckless regard for any human life. We are lucky that he will. One killed the number that you kill. The number could have been so much higher just by catches, watches based office circumstance. It was out of ted's control and so you sit there and you read his manifesto and you go. This guy is a walking contradiction to everything that you put in these papers. There's no brilliance there. Nobody we're giving the has one hundred and sixty seven, I q, but I would argue- what kind of real brilliance and beliefs did this guy have

other than the core of it. All at the core of it all I see a week man who has no self respect and has shunned him from his family by his own choice, but blames his family that he doesn't fit in with them just like He blamed your family that he didn't fit in with you he's hell bent. jealousy and prevention and spiteful next to that that led him down this horrible dark destructive path. Now the other thing to, though you you'd be mentioned, that there we're weird meetings in the woods with ted or or hearing strange noises at night yeah. There is and multiple events when I was really small that I was about five when it first started happening. I was laying in my bed and my bedroom faced kind of the mountain,

tied and behind our home there were some old cars and my dad had an old ozma, be all he was planning on fixing and his boat in various pieces and parts for the some ill and things like that, and that was very close to my bedroom window and I would start hearing some being outside of my window, and it wasn't, it wasn't an animal. I knew that much I would hear like rustling. I would hear metal clanging density charter. I would- and I started here very light whistling. I would always sleep with my bedroom window open because, even as a little kid I really loved the the wind and the smell of the pines, I started waking up to this

The noise is outside and I was terrified and I would run into my dad's bedroom and yeah I'll, be in oh there's. A monster outside in my dad, of course, would be like. Oh no, it's just you're overactive imagination climb into bad, and I was like no dad there's really somebody out there and I think he did a piece me a few times we'd like walk over to my group would be like now nobody's here. You know and come back in as you do with little kids, but you know, as TED writes in his journals, he was foraging for scraps and peace is to put in his bombs and and much of the reason he was untraceable for so long because he wasn't buying supply eyes anywhere. They could be traced for his bombs. He was finding the majority of the metal and, of course, would that he was using around his home

knowing that now as an adult and knowing that I was hearing it really. I was really hearing a monster outside my window was, and I think it was just a real moment of weren t for me and I finally as an adult I I could kind of put that to rest in and to like know that I was. I was right and I knew something was amiss, but you know I was just a kid so that you know, although a scary, experience and you know was. It was really kind of, I suppose, empowering as an adult to write about it and know that that I'll that I had the intuition I'm oh know that something was wrong. So yeah that was that weighs one experience Then there was another one as I was.

much older. It was actually just the year prior to ted's arrest that I was taking a walk through our woods, which I did all the time and you know I- I was rounding- a corner almost collided with ted, and here we are both alone in the woods together and he is much more at this point like the man that you saw being I pulled out of his cabin and nineteen ninety six, you know he's describe him a little bit for us yeah. So he's completely disheveled he's got you know. Holes in his clothing he's got soot ice. He always had stood on his face dirt under his fingernails. But at this Point his his eyes were really bulging. He just seems like almost agitated and frantic

is just demeanor was completely different from. of the shy reserved, eccentric, hermit that I initially had known as a little kid, and so just his appearance was much more frightening. You know there was gray in his beard. His hair was sticking up all over the place and you know that of course. At this point I understood a bit more about the world around me than I did when I was four, and so being alone in the woods with him, was frightening on its own, but also there was just something about him. That really scared me at that point, and you know it's just one of those those moments where the hair on the back of your neck is sticking up and

I know, you're scared for for a reason and it's intuition, and so you know we both said hello as best as possible turned around. He went back his way. I went back to my house and the entire time I was nothing back to the home as soon as I knew that he couldn't see me anymore or thought he couldn't see me and was look in over my shoulder to make sure he wasn't behind me and so a that was one of those other. You know really frightening experiences as an adult. Looking back on that and thinking how differently that could have gone, I mean he was. He was killing. He was maiming. He was you know he had been in a domestic terrorist,

for almost two decades at that point, you talk about being scared. It's your meeting him in the woods in now. Forgive me for a little bit. I might use a little language that we don't want, but You know one of his journals. One thing that struck me when researching tad and his crimes in his life and his lifestyle, a little bit was in one of his journals and I don't know if this was made up for the media or if this is real and you may know, but it was reference that he at one point was sitting in the woods. his rifle considering shooting the neighbors daughter. I think he even says something extremely vulgar like I, but I thought about killing the bitch or shooting the little bitch. Was he talking about you and is it

true didn't do we know if that's true, also you're right about that, and I do talk about that in mad men in the woods it was one of them more difficult things for me to write about and the the way it happened is that yes, TED was in the woods with his rifle and and in that ten may twelve cabin on in lincoln montana. He did have rifles He had a pistol that he had made himself and as soon as you know, when he was arrested, he also had a bomb that was packaged and ready to be sent. So there were plenty of terrifying things within them. Ben and within those woods and on one particular day, TED was out and

again, our shared backyard with his rifle and since our land surrounded his my stepmother and my little sister, who was only two. At the time were they were out doing some chores and kind of receiving the ground, and my stepmother just felt something. She felt something ominous sheen chief, a presence, and you know you're in there in the middle of the woods and you think you're in montana aids. Maybe a mountain lion there's a predator of some sort. So she grabbed her daughter got her in the track and they laughed while she didn't think about this and again in town

after TED's arrest and in those journals which my my my especially my father was very involved in the investigation, but they were able to read some of those and my stepmother remembers reading that ted had a rifle, waited on her and yes, he was kind of vast leading between my stepmother and my levels

stir, whose a toddler really contemplating killing them and yes you're right, while he's looking through the scope and thinking, I hope you know, killing close range he's in his journals later talking about. If he killed them, you know bitch one then bitch too would be left on the mountain side. I mean just the way that he talks about. It is her reflect and for obvious reasons that was really really difficult to to write about.

Of course, of course, and and I mean it, doesn't get any scarier than that. Now, your father, we have him playing a role and taking down ted, we have F b. I agent max noel says that your father was the eyes and ears of a portion of their investigation. Can you tell us about your father's role and, and maybe anything you witnessed or or I learned about after the fact. Yes, is this the unabomber case I was, you know a very sensitive for for many reasons, but because of TED's isolation and because of the environment, he lived in, surrounded by trees, he's surrounded by mountains and trees and and hardly anybody lives out there He knew to be he being max nor new

with that he was going to need some help and my father ended up being that person and, of course, the f b I had to first determine if they could trust my father and that didn't take her didn't take very long. You just took a conversation in my dad ended up yes being kind of the eyes and ears, because any other person around the cabin would have raised suspicion during that time when max no I was planning the investigation and we note to really trained figure out how they were going to arrest this man. It was you we're looking back on ruby ridge and waco and they didn't want. They didn't want any casualties they didn't want. You know ted

he killed and they didn't want of it for obviously the fbi to be harmed, and so they had to be released for tee and my father was, as you said, the eyes and ears, he would report back to max. You know if there was smoke coming out of the chimney or if there were footsteps coming out of the cabin you like that in the beginning and then, as the investigation continued I was having a really difficult time. Getting images, even area images, and so you know

My dad actually went and walked. The grounds walked around heads, cabin with his hand, held video camera and take the terrain for the fbi and preparation of the arrest. So they knew exactly what it looks like so about. That was definitely, as even my dad would admit, a very scary part of the investigation, because my dad knew at that point. They had shared with him. You know that they are based only a kind of told him what they were suspecting. head out, but it and naturally it was. They were just looking into ten percent skipper right, in some threatening letters, and then it did come out that in fact they thought he was the unabomber. So my dad knew at that point when he was walking around heads,

and you think about in the 90s. What a handheld video camera looks like it wasn't your small little iphone and so he's walking around this serial killers in the middle of the woods where he and he knows that he has rifles he hunts. He doesn't know all of the contents of his cabin, but he was terrified and by new, that he had no other choice and an he couldn't see one my person hurt, so he did it yeah and jamie. I wanna, thank you so much for talking with us about your wonderful book, your fascinating book, mad man in the woods, the life next door to the EU. bomber. I there's really dozens of things that we could go into that you do go into in your book and it's a fascinating read. So I want to congratulate you

that one thing I want to leave a little bit of a cliffhanger for everybody out there and listener land is, I'm sure everybody will be dying to know what happened when you wrote to ted in prison after his arrest, but we won't give that answer here day. Instead, why don't we tell everybody where they can find this incredible? Thank you the kind words on the book. I really do appreciate that my that can be found basically anywhere you, I airbags any brick and mortar that you like to shop at, but also, of course, online amazon. barnes and noble and then of course, my website as well. Jamie, wonderful, thank you a joining us and congratulations on the book and I hope to come back and talk to us again sometime

all tat, Is he mad man in the woods fascinating stuff, colonel? Do we have any recommended reading for the beautiful listeners? Of course we do here. Captain we're going to be recommending madman in the woods life next door to the unabomber by our guest jamie, The child, in lincoln montana, growing up her family shared their land, their home in their dinner table with a hermit with a penchant for murder, and that, of course, was ted Kosinski. The unabomber check out her book her fantastically

intriguing book madman in the woods life next door to the unabomber. You can find that great title and many more on our recommended page at true crime garage Dr Jimenez back here in the garage next week and until then be good, be kind and don't the.