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Mary Pinchot Meyer /// Part 2 /// 63

2016-11-29 | 🔗

Mary Pinchot Meyer - Part 2 ////// 63


October 12, 1964 Mary Pinchot Meyer went out for her usual midday stroll to get some fresh air and maybe a little inspiration. While out walking near the C & O canal Mary was attacked. She was shot twice, died practically instantly and left for someone to find. Police make an arrest and the trial is set. But do they have the right guy? Or was Mary killed by some shadowy agency because of an affair with the late President Kennedy? This week in the garage we continue to look at the unsolved murder of Mary Pinchot Meyer. Was Mary's murder a hit and cover-up put together by an organized group like the C.I.A. or was it a random act of violence committed by a loner? Hmmm, that's funny. Isn't that the same question we ask ourselves about John Kennedy's murder?

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code garage garage. How about that? Next we have the fredericksburg zombie walk. Now I must apologize whacked, I'm assuming this is a holler polliwog time thing, but from I do know, is fredericksburg zombie walk is an annual event and in two thousand and fifteen they collected about three thousand pounds of food to donate to the needy. So if you, even the virginia area, you're looking for a really good cause to get involved with and something funded to as well yeah just type in the fredericksburg zombie walk into the old Google machine and see how you can get involved. Next, we have come. in Pensacola florida we also have lorn in pittsburgh, pennsylvania and last. But least joanne and mason ohio, its joyance fiftieth birthday on December third. So a big garage happy birthday to joanne from nick the cat. In your sister, Cathy and all of your friends at the wrath for I always will gee. We,
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This is true, prime garage, and this is the case of mary pin, show my washington october thirteen missus Mary pinto Meyer, a washington artists in society. Woman was shot and killed yesterday,
The police arrested raymond Crump junior a twenty five year old labour and charged with murder. Mrs Meyer, forty three years old was shot twice in the left temple and in the chest ass. She walked alone on the old chesapeake and ohio canal towpath in georgia. She died at about twelve forty, five p m the towpath, pedestrian and bicycling ralph frequented by children for fishermen parallels the Potomac river. Mrs Meyer had some has taken a walk there with missus John F Kennedy. Mrs Myers friends said missus kennedy who now lives in new york was described as a good friend of mrs, my mrs Myers brother in law. Benjamin see bradley identified the body. He is the washington bureau chiefs of news, weak magazine, mrs mire,
was missus bradley sister Mr Bradley was a close friend of president Kennedy, the victim was divorced wife of a cord Meyer Jr, a writer and founder of the united world federalists, now employed here by the central intelligence agency. The driver of an automobile tow truck a long canal, road which runs parallel to the towpath, enabled the metropolitan police to make a quick arrest of the suspect, He was arraigned late yesterday before a united states, commissioner, and held without bail on a charge of murder. He denied any knowledge of the crime, the tow truck,
operator, Henry wiggans twenty four told the police. He had seen a woman, apparently mrs Meyer, struggling with a man. He heard screams and two shots and then saw a man bending over the body. He drove quickly a half mile to the nearest telephone like, was apprehended an hour later wet beside the potomac near the shooting seat. He told them. Is he had fallen in the river while trying to retrieve his fishing pole, the police reported finding a fishing rod at his home missus crumb also identified a white jacket found near the scene ass, her husband, the witness, said the assailant was wearing a white jacket dive were searching the canal in river bottom for the murder weapon The myers were divorced five years ago, following the death of their son in an automobile accident acquaintances set.
This is true crime garage, and this was the case. A merry pinch. Oh my, We are captain we're doing part two of the merry pinching Meyer murdered and why are we covering this, because obviously we cover true crime here in the garage all really yeah and last week we started to cover this case because it was the anniversary of the Ass, a nation of J f k, our thirty fifth president, its and you know this I'm of year you're, seeing everything on tv involving assassination in this case has always been tied to that particular case. The kids, Mary Meyer and John F Kennedy had love affair of some kind, yet they hadn't in intimate relationship. She had frequented the white house. thin and in their former neighbours as well correct? So it went
looks at the assassination J f k. One should look at this case as well, and that's what we're doing here now. What was read in the trailer. That is the actual article. The newspaper article that came out the day after Mary mire was shot in october of nineteen. Sixty four, so that kind of brings you up to speed as far as what took place that day and what the general public's perception of what took place that day and where we're at now, we have re crump junior he's twenty five years old he's been apprehended. He was caught at the scene. So would argue, he's caught red handed with his flight out by anyway. He's arrested and he's arraigned awfully quickly later that same day and Now we have a trial to contend with right right, we have to figure out. Is re chrome, junior, guilty of the death of mary pinto mire now some things that take place very quickly after he's arrested, we have in it
when comes forward rate. Crumb junior is not of the means to be of the afford: a strong defence attorney rain. However, a up and coming in somewhat successful defence attorney, Toby roundtree she agrees to represent re crump junior for the cost of one dollar. and in one kits assume right that may be that, because it such a high profile case. Ah, you know ex wife of a c. I a agent that and in your connections to john F Kennedy and maybe this would boost her profile may being well. That's exactly what she was doing. He was going to stake her whole reputation in her future career on this case itself and how she represents re crumb. Junior the other thing too, as we have a bit of a sieve, rights are racist or whatever. How I don't know what the right word is here, but we have had a bit of of of a typical conflict
Let us be clear: endless, be belie right so on this is nineteen sixty four and its white woman and the accused as a blackmail. So I believe this lawyer You know not only to boost her profile, but also who is going to defend this man adequately against this against technically white system at that time. Yes, she probably step forward hoping to make sure that re crump junior need a fair trial. This is not just a white woman. This is a society woman and is a kind of em low guy on the total pull re, crump junior, a young labour who has no money and see what kind of trial he's gonna get. Well, she quickly interviews re crump junior, and after meeting with him. After several times, she decides that she believes that he's
thus- and she says in her biography that came out many years later- the she would not represent breadcrumbs junior unless she believed he was innocent. Her her reasoning for this is that we she met with them. She saw what she considered to be a small kind of meek man that was very confused about a secure this. situation river. He don't even really understand what had happened or why he was arrested for what had happened. Yes, sir, story means simply at the scene of the crime. Was that he's fishing and pop goes in the water and he goes after it. Falls into the water himself and then he's arrested No involvement, no connection to marry Meyer herself right. They didn't one. Another and so she steps forward to represent him and she again she says that he's terrified, because this is in Washington DC, if you commit first degree, murder, it's it's punishable by death
yeah. What's interesting here to me, is you see this in the oj trial as well is like johnny cochrane, for example, did wanna be a part of the team until he actually spoke to OJ behind Believe o j or you don't want to take the case and she's doing the same thing: correct yeah. She did the exact same thing and it's going to be a white judge. White prosecutes or- and this is not looking to favor ray crump jr now one thing that happens in the get go the from the early part of this and february of nineteen sixty five and ray crump Jr is told that he is going to submit a hair sample to the prosecutor and he refuses to do so now. This is, we may have on so you just said that he was gone too.
you know he was told he was ok yoga. He was told he was going to. He refuses to do so here, he's brought in to the police captains office in february of nineteen sixty five. He refuses this hair sample, what happens? Is I don't know the legality of this whole situation sounds a little best up to me because reportedly they him down and took his hair from him? Thus they ended up with a sample of his hair. Now this happen unbeknownst to missus Roundtree, who was rapporteur, and she was quite angered by this, and she would try to get this removed from the actual trial. Now they are not able to do so. His hair is going to be a part of this trial and it's gonna be looked at as evidence in this murder case now this case would go to trial in the late summer of nineteen sixty five now one of the first witnesses. That would be
old would be coroner, doktor rayford, in what I, how I want to do this captain, if you would play along with me, is I'd like to go along through some of this trial, what kind of talk about things as we go through it, but The thing to me here is: you know how some trials are just downright boring, and it's just kind of you know dry in a couple of different people presenting the facts in it's. It's a real quick to decide whether this person's guilty or innocent and there's not much news out of it right this trial. To me, I would have loved to have been sitting in the courtroom. This seem like a trial that had a little but a drama to it in a kind of played out like an episode of matlock. In my opinion, what were you get to see? It see thing and action and you get to see two attorneys actually working against each other, like they're playing a game of chess rain, so the first witness that is called by the prosecution. This is corner doktor rayford. Now he did a break down his testimony for you. We don't have to go
the whole thing, but he's basically saying that mary pinto mire was killed by two gunshots. This was a thirty eight caliber gun, two shots, one to the temple that left a slight hail. a round the entrance when and why to the right shoulder blade. This again left a slight halo. Did you say the right temple yeah says right, temple right, shoulder blade, ok, so the the bullet that entered through her shoulder, but is it periphery rated the long and it severed the aorta? So basically she once that happened, she died almost instantly after the second bullet was fired, because now he's pressed a little bit because they want to figure out what does this halo? That is near the entrance wound mean and the coroner would tell you-
that that halo is produced by powder birds, meaning that the shop was very close and distance. If not point blank on marries body mary had abrasions on her head knee and ankle. Now this this, which suggests that Mary fought her attacker and fought pretty hard. They were able to determine that she was drug about twenty five feet. This is after she clung to a tree. Now one The bits of evidence that the prosecution would say that they're going to show to the jury is it they found bloodstains on one of the trees. While this would be the tree that she she clung to, so she attacked she was shot once she clung to a tree. She's drug twenty five feet shot again dies. Instant instantly that's how the coroner sees this attack going down and- to remember that that this happen during the day, this happened, like basically at lunch, break yeah at twelve, approximately twelve twenty p m,
in the very early afternoon. So the other thing that Foreigners able to decipher here is the assailant was able to overpower the victim, the victim mary. She was five foot six inches tall and she wait about a hundred and twenty seven. how's. The coroner would also suggest that the whoever fired the gun could be amby dexterous than he could be able have the ability to use both the right and left hand with the same amount of skill and that he was probably filled with a handgun an you assume that if the shots are coming from the the right side of mary, that the the suspect would be left handed or that he attacked from behind, and he was right yet true. Why
true! I mean, if you're, if you're, behind the victim and you're right handed, then you can shoot the right temple, but is the wound coming from the front of mary or from the back marry the the shot that went through her shoulder blade yeah? That would have been in the back okay, so that it would be more likely that the victim or the suspect would be right handed yep, because then they'd shoot yeah yeah, so the that next witness called for the prosecution. This is supposed to be one of the star witnesses for the prosecution there was going to be two of them and the first one was Henry wiggans. Now he'll, remember from what we said in the first episode. This is the tow truck driver yeah. I waited for yeah, and so he testifies that he was sent by Jo Cameron. This is his boss to pick up bill branch, that's his partner and respond to a stalled vehicle at about twelve twenty p m, and the to Iraq
the arrived at the vehicle at a time when the to arrive, they saw the vehicle. This is a rambler. Ok and wiggans immediately hurts dreams right after they arrived. So this is within seconds. We have were able to put together an easy timeline on her attack because he saying, within seconds of arriving at twelve twenty p m he hears screaming and this alerts him and he decides to run across the street before he could get to the wall, is when he hears the first shot. This is coming from the canal area, so he proceeds then, a few seconds later he says a few seconds later he hears another shot now his partner bill branch would later testify that it was more like ten seconds or fifteen seconds between shots. Wiggins
he's the man. He sees a man just seconds after he hears the second shot. He says he's in clear site of the man and he is less than a hundred and thirty feet away. Wiggans ducks day so little more than a football exactly because it, you know, he's he's hearing them he's tried oriented with fleet not yard? I'm sorry, I am less than thirty feet. He ducks behind the wall, he's reacting and then it gets back beginning he looks and he sees a man put something in his jacket, pocket, item was in the man's right hand, he could not say for certain If this item was a gun or not, he basically after being cross examined, says that he described the imo item as a dark hand, object something he was holding with his aunt the man and around round walks away, but this would go with our idea that he's right handed your exactly right, so he was so weighed down and over the hill
the man was wearing a cap. This is one those camps where you can button the brim to the to the today. I call it like a cabdriver hat, he was wearing dark, pants, dark shoes in a light or tan jacket. He would state that the jacket was zipped up now, though he says light or tan darker and he's all the man standing over the body for approximately a minute and says he did not go, get a good look at the man's face. Wiggans later that day would identify ray crump junior as this man, and he would identify crumbs clothing that was submitted to the court as a close. he had seen the man standing over the body as wearing. But that was a white jacket. Correct right, I mean he's others, he says light or tanned jacket right, but there is a big difference between white and tan right Maybe a light tat jagged bill branch
now remember he's henry wiggans, the other tow truck truck driver, that's his partner. He would testify that hee hee over by the wall. He didn't see the man, but after wiggans had left to retrieve the police officers that he had stood by the wall and kind of watched over the scene. While there is a problem with this testimony, ok because at the crime scene. When he's interviewed by the police, he says when he the shot. He was afraid he he was. Working on the nash rambler. That was stalled, and he heard the shot he decided get in the vehicle and just kind of hide and hunker down inside the vehicle fighter flight. He took off on a flight yet, and we all know you cannot tell the police in their report one thing and then testified to something later in court. You know he bought wyoming and you can, but is it
that goes against. It makes you on credible and think about this, so here for a second, so he's probably a bit of a bit a shame. and then he was just afraid and decided not to go over to the wall right, no one knows how they're going to act in that situation until there in that actual situation. Well, this is where Toby round tree the defence attorney would make her first strike against. if the prosecution in their story- okay, so she's immediately pointing out that, regardless of how long it took police to arrive, and most people estimate that it was between four to six minutes after mary pinchot meyer was shot. So very quick police response. Time here right. She stating that, let's be clear there Nobody monitoring the crime scene before the police arrive, you know, they're, there
isn't this bill branch watching over the crime scene. Anything could have been going on down there with without any eye witnesses. Now what is the prosecutions? General plant wait just a stick with but he had the changes story yet Maybe maybe you fill all inferior as man, I guess, could you took off running in it. In your car, but also whatever the cops telling you d say right exactly in the car are gonna, be working with the prosecution to get a conviction, and you the guy at the scene. You know and he's a black man, so you know case closed it. Well, it what's the prosecution story, the process sure story. Is this? Ok that mary pinto Meyer was attacked her? Their first thought was that they would point out that she was maybe being
robbed, there's somebody who try to rob her and then they had gone wrong, but quickly into this they were able to point out that she would not be one that you would suspect of being robbed because she didn't should carry a wall it now. I know that an assailant might not know that but she doesn't have a purse with her she's, not wearing any jewelry. So why are you robbing this woman now? They would later say that it was probably a the result. Her death was a result of a sexual assault attempt on rape on Mary who ended up putting up too much of a fight that re crump junior shot her because of this fight because it got out of hand and that she might be able to identify him right and that he fled the area. Now, why is re crump guilty of this crime? While it's obvious to the people of the jury right,
this is the prosecution speaking because the police responded so quickly and there are steps- and there are things that you need to you know there are exits and entrances natural exits and entrances to this towpath road or into this area, and the police were able to block off all four of those within four minutes of the attack. So one would think that the attacker was most likely trapped in that area and therefore would be apple, headed by the police. Looking for him, a short while later, which re crump junior dazzling re was yeah, so let s think about their attack for their their plan. The prosecutions plan for second, okay and thus to bring in the next witness the next witness was a police officer, John warner. He apprehended re crumbs junior at one fifteen p m. He was talking to re crump for about ten minutes before he decided to arrest him now. This took place about one tenth of a mile east of the murder scene.
Now, when he does testify. When he came across Crump crump was not running, he did not look like he was fleeing the area he was just walking and when he, when he approached crow he asked him for identification. He presented himself as a police officer. Crump did not to be startled other than the fact that he was soaking wet and he quickly tells him I'm right. Crump, junior, annie him identification, he's asked why he's there? Well, I I'm I'm here cause fishing or why are you wet because just The captain said the fishing pole fell into the water he went after well, that's doesn't make a lot of sense because war officer warner offers to go with crump to the area to help him retrieve his fishing gear right crump says: well, it's it's in the war we're not gonna, build retrieve it
any changes, his story, crump says. Well, I was I was actually drinking and fishing and fallen asleep and when, when some point, I stumbled into the water. I'll, keep in mind, we said it re crumb junior is not as well right. Does he smell of alcohol mean? Is there any like stench to him? Why it didn't seem to. He didn't seem to elaborate on that at all I mean how drunk do you have to be to fall into the river? I don't know how drunk you were. I think you have to be pretty dry but I think his story is that he was drawing ever way. Have you ever fell into a river not a river, but I have a pond youth is why you're drinking to actually similar story to re crump juniors. I was drinking. I was drinking and
EL asleep near the pond, and then got attacked by some of my friends in when woke up startled and fell into the by there's been some he's free there there there no longer for it there, but as always, sorry about that chrome junior says that he had fallen asleep fell into the water Ok, now, when he's found by officer warner, he's not wearing a cap, and he's not wearing a jacket, so shortly he's apprehended the police start looking for a jacket and they start looking for the thick, the hat because the that the eye saw they need to find the guy that was described to them as described to them. The next witness, is alice. Take a quick pause, get grab a beer, take a quick beer break
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where you don't even have to wear pants and honestly we're having a lot of fun doing it. We hope you join us on the deep dive, listen to the deep dive on stitcher apple podcasts or wherever you're. Listening to this now and we're back from the beer break your cats- and I want to talk about real quickly, the description that is given of the suspected assailant and mary pintos murder, because this will come up time and time again it throughout the trial. Okay, so the description that is given by the first, what is Quota quote the star witness henry wiggans is that he had seen a man that was approximately five foot to five. I'm sorry, five foot, eight to five point: ten inches tall about a hundred and eighty pounds, african american, in his fortys and we'd already described the clothes that he saw, the man wearing now. Why is this important? Well re crumb junior, yes, he vaguely fits
description. Right, I mean he's an african american man, but outside of that his driver's license, he's listed as five foot: three inches: five foot, three and a half inches. Sorry, one hundred and thirty pounds and he's twenty five years old so he's quite a bit younger than the man and his fortys and he's quite a bit shorter and lighter than the man that was described by now. He weighs shorter exit Now he is wearing somewhat the same clothes. You know when officer. Warner confronts re, crump junior and when he apprehend Then he is wearing the dark trousers, the dark shoes that were described, but he does not have this like logic jacket on and he does not have a hat now. The police were very quickly able to find the jacket
Within minutes of them apprehending re crumb junior, they go looking for this jacket and his jackets found about forty five minutes after they apprehend him. Now they wouldn't find the hat until the following day. Throughout this entire right, but one could assume that, if re was the murderer that he disposed of these items correct and re crump. This is what he is. He looks like when he said. And he is soaking wet. The officer notes that his fly is down. His pants pocket was torn and the he had a cut on his right hand in a small cut above his I now
This would both led the police to believe that this. These were injuries sustained during the attack on Mary pinto mire right. Could she fought back his his excuse, for these injuries are that he fell into the water and he got hurt on the rocks the next witness that is called by the prosecution. This is Joseph rancid. Rance involve sorry for the name, their Joseph I butchered that, but who is he? He works for the national park service, and why is he there he's there to discuss? The lay out of the tow path, and why is this important? Because again, the prosecution said that they were able to to block off all those entrances and exits, and they believe that whoever committed this murder would have been trapped and would have been apprehended very quickly. As was re crumbs
now so they're. Looking at this map, they put like this huge map on the wall right across from where all the jury members are sitting. So they could see it while they're going through the descriptions here now that this Joseph that work for the national park service he's ass. You know how many exits or on the towpath wrote on the towpath between key bridge and chain bridge, and he states that there are four and within four minutes that the police were called, they had blocked off all for these, thus trapping the assailant inside. Now he points out these four exits as one their steps to water street at key bridge to there's an underpass at foundry branch. Three there's an underpass it fletchers boat house and for there are more steps at the chain bridge
now through out the trial. They will interview several of the officers that were blocking off these exits and two of the officers that were supposed to be blocking off the underpass fletchers boat house. They state that, after about five minutes, they get tired of blocking off there spot. Try so they well. Everybody wants to catch the killer right. I think that's why some people go into law enforcement. They they want to be the hero. You know, and so after about five minutes get a little tired of waiting a blocking their spot. They decide that they are going to each take a route that would lead them near the scene of the murder. So they're taking separate rules now during the course of one of these routes. One of the officers he sees a head peak out of the woods now he doesn't go full charge right into the woods looking for this man, because he believes that this is probably the murder suspect why
the only thing he could identify from seeing the head of this person was that it was a head of an african american male. Now he sees this person approximately a hundred hundred fifty feet away from him He decides to wait there and he's waiting for back up before he's going to go apprehend the hen. This meant backup never comes so after some time passes. They figure out that their there never never able to locate this man now a key thing in the trial, come out here, is that this officer says that he saw this man approximately one, forty five p m, but this where we're going to see the great attorney derby roundtree make her second strike against the project. Prosecutions theory, so Cross examination of this man of Joseph from the national park service. She's going through the map with him now she did the legwork. She would go down
the towpath day after day after day in scour the scene to see what what was going on and what it looked like and walk the ground herself. I dont think the prosecution did this. I think that they got they got caught without knowing what was going on right now or there were. Hockey ans assumed its nineteen sixty five, we got a black man. You know we're gonna, we're gonna charge him he's gonna be found guilty. I illegally. I think they may have thought it was going to be easy when well, they didn't realize that they're going to be dealing with derby, roundtree, so she's. to make our second strike here and what is this through cross examination of this man? She points out that there is a fifth exit that Joseph didn't know about and this points out something here who is weird he's the expert on this year and I don't
I think he actually knew the area. I think it was just somebody that worked for the national park service and they just call him and they call him in as an expert witness quote unquote what the jury's able to figure out is this guy's, not an expert witness. This is just a guy that works for the parks department he is observing a map that anybody can look at. So there's a fifth exit in the prom this is well. Not only is her at an exit that they don't know about, but it wasn't blocked by anybody. This wasn't wasn't being blocked off by officer, so So we have one off, sir. That saw a different black mail Then we have another exit altogether. That's not blocked! Yes, so there's a couple problems here for the prosecution, because prosecution will come out and say that that blackmail the picked his head out of the woods royal. That was re crumb junior that that happened. You know we,
all the officers saw him and he was apprehended later, while must in hiding behind a very small tree, but we gotta look it. I witness testimony right, so this officer said, The he saw the man approximately one, forty five p m, while re crump junior, it was already been right whose arrest he was already rested at one fifteen p m, so it could not have been re cramped unite unless he got the time wrong and the other thing testimony of the of the gentleman from the national park service that they are able determined the dover Roundtree points out to the jury. Is that not There are five exits and not for, but there also pay of areas where somebody a person on foot could just leave without having used the steps or anything of that nature. So she's picked apart the prosecutions theory pretty right here. In my opinion, she's pointed out that a all the yeah we're not blocked off that whoever killed Mary pinto mire
could have got away to she's, pointing out that they're not lee. You know there are the only person seen near the body was this african american mail that vaguely matches the description erect junior, but she's already established that he was clearly not the only african american mail. There was down near the tow path that that day more and at that time so this is going to start presenting a whole bunch of problems for the prosecution. Now, let's keep in mind too did least had searched for days and days. Looking for the murder weapon now they did go into the water. Looking for this, the murder weapon was never found. They never look. Did the gun that did shot these thirty collar bullets. Right, too, You could one assume that it got lost in the water if, if you re actually fell into the water or he disposed of the gun in the water make it out
it's harder to find, or you could also assume that if, if ray is innocent, that the the real killer left the park with the gun exactly and that's what she would point out to the jury. So now the prosecution they're going to bring in their second star witness, is lieutenant mitchell now he is. This is where the prosecution really liked there their attack. Okay, there first, I witness was a black man, who was pointing out another black man, and so they thought that that would ring some truth. You know that it's not just a bunch of white people, accusing this african american man, coming right now. This is where they thought there. Hit the home run, and this is why they called lieutenant mitchell last, because this is a former military man. He's he's a white guy and he's of some standing in.
area, so they believed that you know this is somebody that the jury as well as the general public public, would find truthful and trustworthy. So he says that he would go jogging often around that time, almost daily and on his jog he passed what he identified as mary pinto Meyer. This would be shortly before she was. It act. He said that about two hundred yards after he passed mary pinching mire that he jogged passed in error an american man wearing a light, tanned jacket, dark trousers, dark plaid cap with a broom, and the man was not caring. Any fishing equipment also stated that he saw you know. Who else? Did you see that day says? Why saw young white couple and I saw another alger, who was wearing bermuda, bermuda shorts. Neither we need to point out something here. When they are looking for the killer. Ok Mitchell come
the police the day after after they had eddie arrested, re, crump, junior and says the man that I saw walking job. You know he's bright near the victim. Now these other p that he states that he passed on his job. That day, these people never come forward there. Never I in a fight and they never come forward as I witnessed right. So he We got a point out something I will come back to this later after the trial, but Mind me about this lieutenant mitchell. Now lieutenant mitchell would state did he gave the same description the day after the day after re, Crump, juniors arrested that was given by wiggans now on on trial wiggans, you know his eye. Witness accounts as a little off of what re actually looks like and at trial. This
Ten mitchell is going to be very vague about his description. You know when he's asked to give the height in the weight of the man. He says that he looked to be about my size. Well, lieutenant mitchell was approximately five foot eight and about a high in seventy five, two hundred eighty pounds this again making him much bigger than re crumbs, junior, however, he's, never willing he's pressed by dhabi roundtree, but he never really fully admits that. He believed the man to be exactly that site and wait conscious or he's saying someone about my size again, I'm gonna go back to the description of of re crumb junior there are what was given of the man seeing standing over the body now once again, this is women's your eight year, given that I witness accounts of the suspect
somebody that was described as an african american male stocky about a hundred eighty pounds and between the heights of five foot, eight inches in five or ten inches and in his forties, ok. So when officer warner arrested, re crump junior, he was presented with identification this would have shown him that he didn't re. Crumb junior didn't fully match the description of the man that they were looking for. This presents up problem, because there was no. There was no great area about this. They had the testimony of twelve officers that were investigating the crime that day the I heard the description that went out over the radio of whom they were to be looking for and ten of them state that we're looking for an african american man, stocky five foot, eight inches in his forties, too, of the officers given
front description. They say we were looking for an african american man. Five foot, ten inches a hundred eighty pounds in his forties, but what you can figure out there is. It This is not the description of re crump junior. His driver's license states that he's five foot through half inches a hundred thirty pounds now on the date that he was arrested, the police booking they list him as five foot, five and a half inches, and a hundred and four five pounds, so he slightly taller slightly heavier than what his driver's license states now, what it does not state in the in the booking report was Ray crumb junior was known to have war lifts that would make him look taller I mean they could measured him there and he had the lifts on so he would be five five. It was exactly right. He was on it clear at the time of the trial whether he was Sid wearing these lists are not so he could have been too the day was arrested. The other thing was when, given his wife
alright, but he's arrested the day of right, so he's said the day of so we can assume he had the letters on during the attack. Nowhere We can assume that. But what saying as it was brought up and trial in the police were unable to give a full report as to the shoes they He was wearing that day. If he was wearing the lifts are not, then they couldn't determine that that was. There was no record of that. They just took his height and marked down and moved on, but the marked down as well. I've, so archidamus fire either line or he's wearing the lifts, and he was actually five five exactly and the other thing is with given his weight. you know, I'm assuming that they're not line is he heavy because he's wearing wet clothes? I mean that wouldn't add that wouldn't had fifteen pounds to you, but my little. But you know I think, there's things on your driver's licence that you don't it. They say, as longing editor within
fifty pounds or whatever that you don't have to change your amount, so it might just be one is: It is twenty five years old I may He's a little heavier and, and he never changed, aloes licence, so we can agree, though, that dhabi roundtree poked quite a bit of holes in the prosecutions theory of what took place that day right, she's feeling pretty good about her case, and she decides that she only calls three eye witnesses and those I mrs, are all people that are just going to testify toward the character of re, crumbs, junior and other thing here, though, is that all three of them, one of them being his wife, all three of them had known re, crump junior. This is their testimony for fifteen years or more, and at no point had any of them ever known, break from junior to own a gun or to even mentioned that he owns a gun, so we this guy, that is considered not to be a gun owner, and we have
corner, saying that not only is this person amby dexterous, but he's probably skilled, with a handgun so we have a guy that might not have even owned a gun, let alone have any skill with one yeah, but one I dont get its necessary that he's capable of you, in his left hand or his right hand, and also skilled, with a gun able to hold a gun up to a body in pole trigger. That's he's, not sharp, shooting here right, you shooting. Somebody by basically holding the gun to whom foam pull the trigger and the other thing adobe roundtree would point out to the jury. Was that the coroner specifically said that he but- believed that the assailant was able to overpower the victim. she points out that keep in mind. You know yet it it would have been man, verses, woman, however re crump junior is shorter than the victim and- ways only a pound or to more than the victim, so ease
Lee overpowered break from junior might have been to do that, but it is it like over believable now, there's some questions their farming, but she did put up a fight now on the final day after she calls the character witnesses She decides this she's going into court with the assumption that she is going to call re crump junior to the stand, and she believes hard and fast at. This is what she's going to do, because his story will further back up what he was being there. That day now what was her plan? He had told her story. had not told anybody else that he was down there at the by the water. Drinking with a married woman and being a married man, that this was something that they had done more. Than one occasion that they would go down and they would drink together in a lot of little kiss face right, there's a lot of male hordes in the store. How,
were this woman never came forward. She she did right. a letter or she wrote some kind of testimony that was, when two dhabi round remote it was on a state or name now, because she was married nitrate, and this was not something that could be presented in court now, dhabi round on her way into court that day she you had to take an elevator to get up to the floor where they are holding court, but also, if he's this married woman, if that's a true story than the places accusations that this was a sexual attack, because it didn't make laws sense? As far as robbery goes he soon saying so, if he's down their foreign nikita with a married woman. Then why would he have a sexual assault on this other lady? Exactly and on the final day of trial? Toby Roundtree is going into the courthouse
and she's going to have to take the elevator up to the floor, that is holding trial that day and the elevator operator throws her a little curveball. She says you know I just I just took the prosecution team up, the floor. Now the whole time they were in the elevator, they were gone on and on about how happy they were that re, Crump junior was gonna, take the stand and they could not wait to pick him up part they. I had this all planned out. They were going to spend the whole picking apart his testimony. I don't know if that's the elevator operators job I don't know, but Have you ever been an elevator where there's a actual operator yeah as pretty interesting, it's very old school, but way. So she gets this ted bit from the elevator operator and she decides that you know what, if they're, if these good old boys are so happy about picking apart his testimony, I'm not gonna bother calling him to the stand right. Why take the risk? If you feel like your head, you have more to lose than gained law
long story short captain re crumb junior is acquitted of the murder of Mary pinto meyer aura. So what is the aftermath of this. it's an unsolved murders, it's an unsolved martyr to this date. The murder took place in the sixth in sixty four the trials in sixty five. We here we are all these years later, with no answers now there have been plenty of people that have stated that, while this should still be an open case that technically, if you do some digging, it is an open case however, after the trial, it was never investigated any more. they spent no more time on investigating this murder after the trial. Why? Because the police chief at the time believed that the prosecutor had botched the trial that did not do a good job on the trial. Furthermore I believe that re crumb junior killed me, we pancho Meyer, and only
reason why he got out of it was because of of racial stuff. Did that jury was primarily african american. There were eight africa merit african american people on the jury of twelve, and so you have a lot of people that point out with all this can't be a conspiracy because re crump junior did it. He just happen to get off because he had. Eight people There are ever raised the same race that helped him get off and, furthermore, dobie round tree. She was a minister at an all black congregation and they I believe that it was kind of like, like you had said to me earlier, Johnny cochrane, where she was able to talk in a way and present her story in a way and that that some of the white police officers and law enforcement at the time believed that you know, because of her church background of because the way that she said things and would convey thanks to the jury that those eight african american jurors would have believed anything that she said.
all right that the idea of the lawyers to tell a better story, which lawyer tells burst story but I mean he has something's gone against him, and some things that went form in this case is very. hard to know I mean I think that probably played a part. I mean how many african american males are given a fair trial and sixty four, not many in this was taking place in the north right. You know I don't you know I imagine that varies. I would imagine that would be less likely to get a fair trial in the south, but this was taking place in the north. There was no, unfortunately, there still racism today. Everybody knows that we can pretend that it's not going on, but there is racism. Can you imagine the racism and landings in some way this works to live gone. You I'm just gonna pretend that shit doesn't happen. I'm just gonna say that we're not racist. Now
yeah well what's interesting. Here, though, is you know Mary Meyer? Is you know a woman ahead of her time in atlanta facets of her life right? Oh yeah and so it is, is raise lawyer, she's, she's, a woman ahead of our time, she's, an african american woman right she's, a should also preacher and and she's a lawyer. I mean and sixty five and then not only that, but she takes mean. I wonder where her career went. After this she had a very successful career. I d No, if she went on to be a part of any other famous cases, but I leave sheet. She had a biography that came out some time in the nineties. So that's why? So much of this stuff is, you know, able to be reported easily. You know you have the trial transcripts. You have. her biography, plus they were all these other biographies of people. near Mary pinto meyer tat came out later in life
Yeah she was a society woman. She was surrounded by successful people want, said the the onset love letter from J f K sold for almost ninety thousand dollars- and you know this year saw mean anything. That's connected with John F Kennedy has been. Very soon after in the public eye now there several people involved in this trial, one being the prosecutor stating that if you look at re, crump juniors life after the trial that that points out that the he did, this murder, ok, because he would go on to have a very lengthy police record, which involved things like arson and assaults, I think he had two arsons on there. I think a burnt down his own house at one point and from and they would point
Did I, by the way, next week on burning down the garage? I think the from junior was arrested, light twenty two times after this trial took place and and he had actually moved out of state to some of those weren't him being targeted. By rightly sorry about that, I just hit my head, but they would point out he was in fact a violent man now in dovey round trees, biography, she states that she, she has a good litmus test for these type of things right, She would interview a lot of people and have to determine whether there guilty or innocent. So I I'm gonna go with her on this and she states that she believed It's that nine months in jail, the did crump sat there waiting for his trial red chain. because she saw me and that we had been attacked multiple times while he was in jail. She believe he might even have been raped at one point and
saw a very different man walk out of the trial doors that day the man that walked into an at the start, and she thinks it that chain, him- and obviously he had a dream problem, he had had a small drinking problem before he went on trial before mary pinkos murder, and she saw it alcoholism became very acute afterwards and- and this would lead to all these problems that he had with the law, Yeah me, but yours have, no you're living in this world, thinking that you're gonna get a fair shaken and I'm sure sure any by of decent intelligence back and sixty three sixty four sixty five, this time period
an american male knows that some of this some of the society's cards are stacked against you already and so, but but with those cards being stacked against you other than that, you're hoping you get a fair shake right. If you do the right thing, then then good things happen to you and and but I mean one whatever? If, if his story is true- and he was actually with a married woman than you weren't doing the right thing at the time and but then this happen, and then this kind of sets the spiral and it changes your mindset. But this is how the world works and doesn't matter. If I did it or not, all these people think I'm guilty of it that'd be overly top thing to defend yourself on loan. You hinted on something there that I have always said for many many years you know, and in regards to re crump junior. He was not just a man in the wrong place at the wrong time,
I know this was a man willingly putting himself in a bad situation. He went down there that day too something you shouldn't be doing, and I have always said for years. If you put yourself in a bad situation where you put yourself around bad people enough bad things are going to happen. I'm not saying he deserved what happened to him did that day. If he was in fact innocent. However, you know that's the moral of the story here. You also hinted on somethin earlier that I I appreciate because when when I first started looking at this case more. I got to know about mary pinto mire, the more I got to admire her. I think she was incredible woman that has a bigger story. That's that's more than just possibly have a fair with the late president. I think this was extreme. The interesting woman. I think that she fit into high society very good, but she also had this. our hippy inside of her, which was cool and the other thing, you pressed on was what you can be a part of high society, but understand that ideas that you have to have an open mind and have yet
open mind about issues are more likely to solve the problems you right end she fit into both of those categories. The other thing here too, as like you about dopey Roundtree. This was an amazing woman. I mean Could only imagine if, if, if she she poked holes in this prosecutes, his theory, like you wouldn't believe me, she just tore part their case in my opinion, and I- I looked at, but I I looked some of it is just I think it's shitty prosecution. I mean for everything that you know for when they go well. This eyewitness testimony is off he's only five three, while he's lift wherein listers than therefore there there. I witness testimonies not that far off right, but we both agree that the prosecutor and came into this trial, and they thought they probably having easy case. This is a poor or or lower middle class black man accused of killing a well to do white woman and her in broad daylight. This is an easy case, but Dolby roundtree could
walked in the same with the same thought, right she could have walked in and thought well. This is an easy case for me to lose. This is an african american male were charged with killing a white woman and I'm the, going to go in here and make sure that he gets a fair shake. I'm not going to really work this thing real hard. I think she worked this case really hard well, but in all fairness she took the case, so I mean you're not going to take a case to lay down. She took a case to win it. now you're in your exactly right, but I think when she saw what was that you know the adversity in front of her. I think that she didn't back down and she never wave. And that she continued on and she got the. I think it's the right verdict now I can't say from personal opinion, whether I think re crump junior is guilty or innocent, because I think there are things pointing to his gill and things pointing to his innocence. However, had I been on the jury back in nineteen sixty five and witnessed the trial. As I understand it to be, I would have give a verdict of innocent there,
might, I believe I would have to do but I don't know I don't want wouldn't I cause I put this one on the list. I don't put a lot of cases on the honour our schedule, and I did so because I'm so fascinated with the assassination Kennedy and when this is always reported, so I guess we can get to the conspiracy side of things for the slow little bit. While I was going you do. We have enough time to discuss any other conspiracies. I yeah it's early in the day. I got a little bit of time for you yeah, so well, here's the thing is, I I wanted there to be a conspiracy. I wanted there to be this bigger, in this bigger reason regarding mary pinches martyr, not j of catastrophic right right but look. I will just come out and say it do not think the hardy oswald was the loan gunman? Well
for you get into that. Let's talk about mary, ok, no note, but that's a setting. It up largesse start there so what was happening before J f k, you dont yeah, there's this affair and all this stuff great who cares and my eyes I don't care. You know he was a whore that doesn't, I think you are, president, but so merry has ties with Timothy late leary, which is the big lsd guy, and he was a professor harvard doing studies on lsd. Do you know the truth serum, but it's really more about expanding and opening the mind that the truth cirm was a joke, while no, but people actually used it as truth from in experiments, I think right right, so she had basic she had a relationship with timothy leary and she was getting lsd from timothy leary and she was
And minutes stirring these turn on events with you know, wash it in a way and she was trying to get the wives of these elites to get turned. On to open their minds, therefore, and flowing in their men and shiva, stated to timothy leary multiple times. If you can get these guys wives in these guys mistresses to get turned on and open up to new ideas that it could really influence the the well world and and if you ever want to look up something pretty interesting. It's a timothy leary wrote about this in his relationship with Mary Meyer. No, not a sexual relationship is a relationship, so they would go back and forth
when John F Kennedy was assassinated, she called timothy leary. She then stated to him. They killed him because he knew too much yeah. I believe his exact quote that, as she said, they couldn't control him any more. He was changing too fast. They ve covered everything up right in really to me a towel sign of there's. Some big tells. I think that point to the idea that was this a coup d? If you want to call it, is notion that Kennedy was, pull out of the war and how who does that affect monetarily and the government and want to do that. So therefore, we're gonna, say I ate him and we're going to take back power. He wasn't going to listen to the people because he got turned on be. You know, as far as you know, open up his mind to the
stability, hey war might not be the answer so yeah? Maybe he knows too much, maybe he's changing. Maybe he they can't control me more, so they assassinate him. That's what she's kind of saying towards timothy leary, and I think she was a little scared. You know, because she was one of the associates that were kind of helping him open up his mind, and so that happens happens is sixty three. Now, when you hear about Mary Meyer, all the time you here, ok, the sash nation happen and then marry. so much that they killed her. Put the that's, not the truth, because what happened was it was a year later ass? She was killed Eleven months after J f K was assassinated.
And you have. The Warren commission come out with their report just weeks before she's killed, and this to me is if you want to go down the conspiracy rabbit hole with this case. This would be the tell signed, because the Warren commission come out with their report. words, their findings, but Lee harvey oswald is blown gunmen and she is pretty vocal and pretty public that she does not agree with their findings, rumour that was going around as well, was that she had actually purchased the paper back version of the Warren commission report and that she was making notations ass. She was reading it and highlighting things and probably putting together a case that they were wrong, that their findings were not exact.
The cool thing about mary pinto mire, though again she was a sight society woman, so the people that surround her were very successful, so there so many document. If you want to dive into the saying there so many biographies they came out years after she was killed of people close to her. They talk about things going. in her life that led up to her death. Now some of the can be considered here, but you know you have like her brother in law, MR bradley a very successful guy. He was in charge of the washington post, I believe, later in his life and oh he has a biography air as well as plenty of other people. In this case now, let's talk about real quick, why you know talk about mary pinto Meyer. Was it a conspiracy? But let's pretend we all agree: re crump junior. We believe the jury will, but we believe dovey roundtree and he is actually innocent of this crime so where or some problem
with who actually killed Mary pinto Meyer and- and Why- and you mentioned, not agreeing with the warren report rain. Ok argument there is that you came as far as the session assassination is concerned, How many of those witnesses have mysterious deaths afterwards, that's kind of where their drawing is anyway. That's connected anybody that has different viewpoints any by the has a voice any by that can can take that. Could change public opinion. There's a lot of people that end up dead end that's their their lump in her. In with that yeah, I believe there were like twenty five to thirty people on that list and she would have been like fifteenth or sixteenth on the list. Now. Not all of them were murders, some of whom were suicides but right. There is a lot of mysterious enough to talk about. That's for sure what other weird
into is that there is, I think, a break in to her house. They were looking for her diary and there was this whole thing that, after her death on trying to that people of higher power was trying to get her diary? Yes, she had told some of her friends and I believe it was her rob sister. Did she believed that people were following her? that she that they were breaking into her home and possibly wiretapping her phone. She even states at one time when she was coming home, that she saw somebody leaving her her home right and and the end of the ladys making these claims? I don't think she's the parent
wade didn't just making this stuff up. Well, let's talk about this diary, real quick, because there are a whole bunch of stories about this diary. I wanted to include it and give a very factual opinion of this diary. The problem was, when I looked at it through the eyes of four different people reporting this diary. They all had different stories, and so I could come up with what was the truth. But the general story is this: that within two four hours of her murder that her friends and heard loved ones conspired did they wanted to go to her home into her studio, and they wanted to collect her personal things, that being a diary that they suspected she kept her letters and our personal papers now when they went to this has been bradley he's out of any part of this could be like it. I, like, I said, she's she's the
this is a tough cookie. I mean I eat out. She was having an affair with the president. You know at one point and- and she talked to you know like I said she started to timothy leary, about the different mistresses of people, power and washington. Maybe she was having other affairs. Maybe it was just to get this diary to protect her reputation, because you know a lady that a single and me be having a fair. With married man put a damper, puts up, can a black cloud over all the positive stuff she was doing specially during that time period, and so there there's deftly mode and in that scenario have to we want to collect this stuff, so so we can kind of protect her name in her reputation. Mother saving face right there at their protecting her name. Protecting her.
Family because they believe she was riding down everything she did and put, and potentially protecting the kennedy name as well. They don't want these things to get out now, huh brother in law, Ben bradley, his story. He says that he was part of this group that went to her home to get these items now when there he says gets there there's a gentleman? His name is James angle, tin, he's see I agent and he is. He was either trying to pick the lock to her home, or he was already in the home when they got there. That part of the story is a little unclear. While there were there, they found a diary and, according to bradley angled. In said, you know how we handle these things in the cia. I can take this back to headquarters and are burnt out, dispose of it properly and nobody will ever know what was in this diary. Well, after that, the group of friends talk about it. They decide that that's probably the
thing to do and wisest normal, though, is it just normal because she was married to a cia? I think so, and I it's where they live. I mean living in the d c area being involved all of those graves live whose just some the white woman even of Some power with the cia be they're gone through her diary. Ah, you know it unclear. While why angle tin was there, but he is a man of the cia? He couldn't said I'm investigating this, her murder, you know it. This is within twenty four hours of the deaf Also there there's not been somebody convicted of this crime, they could have fallen for them at what they do. Your job can veto and let us getting a convict in a no, but you need to keep in mind something here too. They were friends with James angled him, so it Like a stranger shoe or up and was trying to break into the law, I wanted to see where the warehouses make light of. This was that this was a man that they knew and they knew the cord Meyer had known him and
so this was a man that they they trusted. Now, where the problem comes about, is there is multi again multiple stories with it This diary, the one being that seems to be the most likely that several people back up is it. They agreed to give the diary to James angle ten, and he said he was gonna burn it at the cia at his office raymond after he read it, slowly now some other stories about the diary, from being that one of the friends, a female friend of hers, states that she took the diary and took a home and disposed of it. Another person states that they salt James angle, tin in possession of this same diary ten to fifteen years later after he said that he had destroyed it, I was he holding onto it. and there is also some other reports that state that they found a diary
It seemed to contain no information about her personal life at all regarding kennedy or drugs or anything of that nature and that they agreed that it was of nothing of importance. and they decided to dispose of it. However, there are people that will point out that there some of these stories say that the diary was found in her home and other story say that the data diary was and in her studio, so some have suspected that, maybe one diaries was a fake that that somebody had either planted it or it was just something that was misunderstood to be a diary and wasn't in fact that or maybe there's too mean? Maybe there's just a riot. You know some people like to keep journal. It's good for mounted. You know mental health. You know get out of the journal just kind of jot down your thoughts of your day. How you're feeling you know just kind of check in you know. Well what'd I once again
in another journal or another diary that is more in depth about certain events and certain things more kind of a keeping track of history and you're exactly right, because one of her friends which he did what they were looking for was adjourned a diary with per. No information with with. Maybe potentially top secret information. However, what they had found was more of a sketchbook of was more of something. you would expect the find in an artist studio, an artist home where she had found him doodles in and there lay ideas. Why? Could this be a conspiracy captain? Well, let's go back to that lieutenant mitchell. Now he's the man that came forward the day after re, Crump junior was dead, he's the jogger jogger that claims he jogged by re any testifies a trial. Now, on the date
that he goes into the police department and says hey. I was there yesterday and I saw her and I saw him. He states that his job is he's a lieutenant with the army. Ok, when they go to trial, he gives a different description of his occupation. He never states cities with the army. He states that he's a teacher georgetown. I believe mathematics was what he was teaching now. There have been several authors that have written about this case. Now more than one of them have gone back and dung the detective work done done, then I say dung. Who knows it's funny. Well, lieutenant mitchell story might be a pile of dung because the authors have gone back and more than one have concluded when they contacted the university of georgetown that he's, never been listed as it as professor or teacher there ever ever including nineteen sixty five when he was at trial stage
that that was his occupation very interesting. Well, then, who? The hell is this lieutenant mitchell, while the other in second of all again remember. We pointed out that in the trial keys the only one saying that he was there, you know from junior, never says he saw this lieutenant mitchell jogging Mary pinto Meyer is dead. The white couple never comes forward there. identified, they could be not even exist in the man wearing the board or that a short or they could be. People have an affair that don't wanna come forward, but what about them? with the bermuda shorts, all by himself he's never identified or seen by anybody else and never comes first, in saying that he was it down there a day and it's the army that, yes, we have the one case with george now we have the bermuda, bermuda shorts right, songs about this the other thing to his. You know that both bush got lady. No I'm talking about yeah, there's no sector over the picture it. Basically, if you look up the j f K
the fascination. There is this lady that they call the book but boots Scott lady, Tom is getting in the way of my talking today, so this lady never been identified. I believe, and a lot of people believe Mary Meyer, was the babushka lady and of a bush. Collating was endows taxes on the day that that chief K was, the correct right now. One could do you know if they have an affair, and we have a letter that was unsafe. J f k, saying hey come visit. Me here come visit me there was she just in the audience of the parade visiting her. You know lover or lover, and was she the babushka lady? That's in what's interesting to me, though, is the babushka. Lady has very distinct, glasses And if you look up mary mire, babushka lady, you can see pictures side by
our post, that on instagram at true crime garages also on the website to a true crammed, crashed outcome. We did get a bunch of emails of people, asking us there like what I note this cases interesting, but I really want to hear you guys go through the chair, K assassination and I thought, oh, my goodness, because I mean West memphis, three flinched a few times when we decided to do that case because it was huge oj was a big case. I mean We we kind of brush with less malthus, thrilled we could have made that, like part, sixty six party, yeah This week, when we got into, we thought that three would were more than cover it and we got into it and we realized holy moly and we kind of had to rush through some stuff in. But can I give you a cup quick bullet points on my thoughts of jfk and his assassination? Do we have time for that? I guess. Oh god,
open up. This cannot war worms. Now I just have some questions. Ok, that here's the questions that I have when I, when I think about the assassination, and whether oswald did it or whether there were other people involved or oswald was not even involved. You know there there's some things that are very clear: trouble now we need to keep a mine, you would mention going you know pulling out of the war at the time There is also some things going on within our government. Did the is of the same mind keep in mind. We were a war economy back then that was what drove our economy. So, yes, the government would most likely wanted to stay at war, but what was going on as well as we had the cold war with the russians going on at the same time now. The weird thing here is that the military and the cia was not working, hand in hand with president Kennedy. At the time president Kennedy was making D and working on making treaties with the russians to choose to end the testing of nuclear weapons,
This is not something that the military wanted to do. In fact, when we had the the cuban missile crisis, The military in the cia wanted to use this to their advantage to basically start world war. Three they wanted to use it as an excuse to launch new killer missiles towards russia and they wanted. two, they wanted to use this to invade cuba as well, and now Kennedy. I know that we have attacked his personal life quite a bit, but we wish I just called him a whore yeah, but we should stand up form in the fact of being a good precedent that he was seeming to make moves towards peace and he was doing efforts to make moves towards peace. He didn't three with firing the nuclear weapons at at russia. He did not agree with going in and trying to evade invade cuba, so high is doing things that dayton agree with. This it's weird. When you see the military in the president, not working together in my opinion, now that some in that's the
shows motivation of why they would want a coup data and theirs? person. You should look up in this is tony shaman and her father was Joe shine and now it's hard to figure out exactly what his job was. I believe that he had worked for the sea. Service but theres many people that bring em up and say that you know if you follow him, this Joe shine enough that huh seems to work in whatever branch of the military or whatever branch for our government. That is convenient. The time you know sometimes he's listed as having been in the air force. Sometimes these list is being fbi, man, we're cia or secret service now so he's kind of a guy. Seems to move around and be a little shifty, but one thing she said about her father did that she has said time and time again that that always stands out. My mind was that she she said that six months before Kennedy was assassinated,
tat. Her father had told her that Lyndon Johnson had come to him and asked for more security, and this would be more security than the president was receiving, and he just kind I wanted to mention that to his daughter at the time, because he found it to be a very strange request. He also thought it to be a very foreshadowing request and I'm in hindsight I guess I dunno. I don't want to get into it too much, because I hope that we cover it some time and actually like actually dive into it. Maybe next november know that setting up a giant task. Many ways is. Was she a part of what was her murderer conspiracy? I dont know I wouldn't put it passed. Anybody
me there is no, like you know, direct red flag of all. This is a conspiracy. I think that she has as the timothy leary that are interacting. She has obviously ties to the cia. that our interests in with her ex husband, she has ties to J f K, been won his neighbor, be in his friend being somebody that you know. Look I keep saying possum he had a fair cause other than people go on yeah. We think that happen. There's not much proof, and you know I think I think its irresponsible to stay she's devil you have. Your right is not one hundred percent proof positive, but more is what they aim is this onset letter is the proof, while its unspent different if it was sent, but, like I said it's again, Did he love letter, its booty call? there is what it is, but there does to be more people inside that circle, saying that there was an affair between the two then then are saying there was not.
yeah, but that's what I'm saying is that you have all these things tying that really kind of seem like. Oh, yes, definitely there are some conspiracy and normally I'm so quick to jump on the conspiracy bandwagon. This one there's just nothing that hooks me to go. This defendant have definitively something weird going on this. a lot of color circles that she run in the circles that she ran with? Is that it's odd so, but I think anybody that ring and in those circles with think possibly this could be a conspiracy well, and I think if you want to, I mean this lieutenant William Mitchell is a big red flag for me. He's there seems to be a lot of problems with the things he said. There's a lot of problems with his career now there even one author that has said that he believes that Mitchell was the one than that in fact, murdered Mary pinto Meyer and he's work too
build a case against him all these years later, and this has been taking place within the past few years. Will it ever become a trial he ever be brought up on those charges. Probably not. This man is in his seventies by now and easily lead to various shadow. We missed previous life was. Was he simply just not there. That day is what I wonder was he just forward in regurgitating what he heard in the read in the newspaper and and he's backing up this story so that they can. fall guy re or what or was he paid you now to come forward, or was he paid to hire hit on her and then they Thought there is a possibility that maybe he was seen said they wanted him, come Unos, there's a bunch of what. If the sad thing is that Your mary mire was it. You know a very smart, intelligent, creative woman. She was mother, you know she
overcame a ilona adversities in her life, she seemed to be such a very positive person up the influence on other people in our life and she lost her life. For whatever reason- and that's the point- and that's that's, then the other sad thing to me. The other thing, the upsetting thing about this to me is that the day that that try started in nineteen. Sixty five against re crump junior, for murder of mary pinto Meyer. The investigation stop and even when he was acquitted and he walked out of that court. A free man. They never. They didn't invest gate, this crime anymore. They just let it be. They just and walked away from it and said you know what we got a bad verdict in disguise, acts absolutely guilty and that's wrong. That's why This should be its I'm sure it's can solve any legally and open case, but not in the opinion of the investigators back then, and I'm sure not nowadays
Well, you see this at I mean even with like the west methods. Three, when you give the you know, you give them a plea, deal they get out of jail and then they go wild know these guys are still guilty. We still believe they're guilty or if you still believe there Then, why are you lead? The mail on the street view still believe those guys murdered eight year old, children. Why you lend them on the street? You stated so you don't have to do the work and in its today, have it both ways. What's It's very sad because again, not only do you the victim, but you have the victim's family. That has no answers are. I hope he doesn't enjoy This episode, I reckon reading for your government and that's what we're getting too will thank you this week,
recommended reading of the magic. Sorry, the magic, the mammoth book of cover ups. This is by John g louis, the one hundred most disturbing conspiracies of all time. I recommend picking this up. This is kind of like the guinness book of conspiracies. If you will, this is covering cases like the assassination of J f k, things like the divinity code area. Fifty one the death of princess, die Anna and the illuminati you like to talk about the loom, naughty and, of course, many many more there's the one hundred most disturbing cases and conspiracies of all time. The mammoth book of cover ups by John he louis go to our website. True crime garage dot, com, click on the recommended page, that's on there as well as the book. that we recommended last week marries mosaic. Unlike all These you can follow at true crime garage
calm go the website sign upon the melee must make sure you subscribe to the show, make sure you tell friend and also social media, twitter, facebook, instagram all that stuff at true crime garage and until next week be good kind and don't let this fathers day find a perfect give further dad it's the perfect yard right now say fifty dollars on the steel fsc. A fifty seven battery trimmer set set includes the FS a fifty seven battery, germany plus the ak ten battery and a I wanna one charger
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Transcript generated on 2023-05-31.