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in the Yesterday, we spoke of some of the things it did not take place early on in the investigation into missing college campuses. Student Judy martens case today. Let's start off by talking about some of the things that was done in the early part of the investigation were done. However, this is after she's been missing for seven days he's on may thirty, first, a review of the radio log in vehicle registrations run that night are made. Officers are spoken too, who were working on the night in question. Nothing out of the ordinary is reported security officer mass stroke

is spoken with. He can't remember anything unusual from that night. He did report that he is familiar with ms martin and that she, prone to travel in late night hours. Writing a light. Blue ten speed. Bicycle syrup also stated that she was supposedly dressed and hookers attire again his words on numerous occasions and was seen with males associated with the drug culture. The lilac house comments and tailor hill area were searched with nigger results officers investigated the following: they check those radio logs vehicle registrations and checked for student status at that time. The student security aid incident reports for may twenty third and twenty fourth were all act all vehicles passing the midway in theatre intersections were stopped on this day in question

to see if they saw anything strange on the twenty third or the twenty. Fourth, the bike room at engelman hall was checked for a blue male ten speed bike, the one that judy would have owned never found taylor hall architecture. Students were monitored for anyone who may have been there on may twenty third, twenty fourth and they checked the roof of bar the boiler room and all exterior entrances a ground search from bar to engelman was conducted at this time, so we're in ground searches. Here, captain we're seeing that their searching the buildings there checking anything that could be some kind of paper trail to either find and locate Judy or two

find or locate someone that may have seen something or heard something or somebody that should be a suspect in this case, they're coming up with nothing here for a couple of things college. These guys she's known to be seen with guys in the drug scene as college that the whole places the drug scene wears this bike at. Why can't we find this bike? The bike to me has always been a big question. This was her You know mode of transportation while on campus, the bike from my understanding has never been recovered. In fact, that was one of the questions that I asked a law enforcement when we spoke with them, has the bike ever been recovered and they said no, but part of that, though, to the kind of said that the bike to them is not of great concern not forty year,

later it would have been back then, and they said yes, it would have been nice to have located that bike. But they wonder that with her missing We don't know where the last place she left the bike would be if it was under lock and key. Of course, it would have been found, but it could be simply somebody stole a bike or simply someone took the book they should know where. I think the reason why it's not of great importance to them all these years later is because of that night in the stories that they have from witnesses. Some of them suspect some of them not buy into the witnesses that say that she was not using the bike that night, but here's. My brown, when you say she had about a football field to football field, links to go back home, that's enough to get on your by

But then, once you put that individual on the bike than to me, the radius in which you need to search as a lot further away, because she has the capability of our from if she wanted to go out a couple of miles down the street to a bar or something job, It has the means to do so. Detectives and law enforcement will spend the following day. Can think more of their investigation and part of the day starts off with, calling every one in duties address book. New information was gathered from those calls now detectives physically searched wooded areas. That surrounded the university a dozen security aids assisted in the search, so they have multiple detectives along with, at least according to the statement. A dozen security aids that are

helping with this search for my understanding from what I've been told captain is that the grounds the campus looks much different today than it did back then. And for my understanding is that you could walk twenty. in one direction from some of these dorm buildings and be entering woods or be right in the middle of a wooded area and a lot more lights now they also searched dunbar prentice, an engelman hall and all the wooded areas that surrounded the health centre and across from manchester hall that I guess, there's a cold damp area off of roads. Road are h, o d e s, road it was searched as well on that day, but light he stated judy. She went to the all boys dorm room and there was at least

five individuals that we know spoke with her so where we add on question them you're right captain, because now the point where you spoke with them, at least once or twice before. Now you need to follow up on those interviews, because maybe someone hasn't been truthful, or maybe somebody remembered something of importance from that night. So they speak with John back any again and this time says the judy came back to his room later that night at some point that night and She retrieved portions of her outfit that she was wearing that night, the glasses, the wig and, I believe the trench coat. But the statement there it's hard to read such its for me, to translate what what that other word is, but at least his statement says that she came back to his dorm retrieve the glasses and the wig

and she put them back on and then left. This is interesting here, because this actually contradicts his statement that he gave to them before remember. He says the slight variation being that he with a friend left to go to seven eleven and that he gave. these items to her before they laughed beforehand. The friend left. We also have Jim democratic who, interviewed again and in this interview, he's basically saying all the same stuff He does say that he signs a voluntary consent to have his or and his room searched, and they do follow up on this, and they say that no signs of violence or any evidence was found in either of his vehicle or his room. At this time he does agree to take a polygraph now, we've met. And polygraph several times already in this investigation and throughout our story and what I A point out here. Is there a lot of people that do end up taking polygraph what we?

sing in the initial portion of this investigation. Captain is people agreeing to a polygraph. So when we say that someone agree to a polygraph that doesn't mean that, were immediately sat down and administered the test right then, and there, or even that same day, here is where we come to another interesting and kind of strange portion or event in our time line. This is on june. Second, nineteenth yeah, so she's been missing for over a week at this point and the report that police get is that Judy allegedly was reported to be added roger sale and while she's at the garage sale a little little bit of self promotion, we're always haven't a garage sale at true crime garage talk, cup click on the store, stupid judy is allegedly at this garage. they'll. She speaking with the homeowners that are conducting the sale and

He tells them that she was thinking about going to south america or to mexico and also mentions hitchhiking. Maybe that's going to be her method of getting to south america or mexico, and she was purchasing some garments, some clothing items for this trip, or at least the people holding the garage sale believed that's why she was purchasing these items again just like the other eye, witness that thought he saw her get into a vehicle. These individuals didn't know Judy personally that's correct. They only know of her because of the missing persons case in the flyers, in the news that in the newspapers later that sir day, a man named Jeff reported to police that he picked up a girl that he saw walking on may thirty. First, she was out hitchhiking

If he says he does not know this girl's name, but he picked her up offered her a ride in states that he took her to taco fiesta sounds like a restaurant and main street, and she stated during the course of this car ride that she was going to get some shots so that she could. to mexico or south america. This is interesting, but it's kind of in line with the garage sale story but again, We don't know that it means it it's actually judy or not. But now we have the garage, sale, people and this Jeff guy forward, independently of one another, both saying that day, leave. They may have spoke to and seen judy after she supposedly had disappeared, but let's go back to her on again off again

britain, Jim young, Jim young, on this day captain on june. Second, he is interviewed at avon lake police department and they do they take the interview for this. In our view, they learn more about mister Jimmy young, and during the interview he does consent to searches of his car and his apartment, which were later conducted and they report negative results, meaning they found, nothing of evidentiary value in either search. But during this interview then Jim Young tells the police because he's during this interview: do you own any firearms nieces? Yes, I own several firearms, but apparently shortly before Judy's disappearance, he shot out the window of his apartment like accidently fired the garner, the gun went off and it shot out his window. You'll shoot. kid now he tells them I

in several firearms and you the police, should know that because after I accidentally shot out my window, you confiscated All of my guns, because I pending trial for this incident, so all of his guns were in police custody at the time that judy went missing. Also states that he does not have any knowledge of judy using any hard drugs. Young also states, Judy told him that she was seeing someone at kent state who was in our o t see and that he was a nice, but did not know the name of this individual. One thing that I find interesting here to captain is the gym young, also states to police and detectives that he wouldn't think that judy would run away. But she would take off on her own. He said yeah she was impulsive at times in she would like to do you? No finer wild things.

times. He goes but is spontaneous. That was not her personality is what he was saying that that he is, she wouldn't just take off, and I find that interesting because He is very much considered a suspect at that time and for him to state bad. It's almost eliminating and out that he might have, if he in fact did do something bad that if he is responsible in any way for her disappearance or same with the hard drugs, but a key thing here with what about polygraph test and please don't throw tomatoes or eggs at me. We we all have the same suspicions of these tests. It should be noted when we are going to talk about these, that Jim young a polygraph test, and actually took his polygraph test at b c. I so the BBC office. There's, if you want to set, bar high: it would be tough to set it any higher than that for portions of ohio

I think one of the main reasons why I mean you don't like him as a as the number one suspect would be the distance away yeah. He may not have an alibi for that night. He says that he was home, it was. It was the middle of the week. He He was home doing normal stuffy at work that day work the next morning. He said I dont really have anybody. They can verify that. I was at home because I was at home by myself, but according to be seen, he passes polygraph tests and, as you just pointed out, captain he's minimum and ours drive away where we have several the visuals by their own emissions, that they were there with her that night close to the time that she magically disappears. So it's just, the obstacle that gets in the way to make him a suspect of any priority over these are.

So normally I like the boy friend or the ex lover to be looked at pretty hard, but I think in this case the distance and also I like the fact that he is the one that points out but she's not so made a run away to me if you wanna, if your guilt, You're gonna go you're, throw out the kitchen sink while she ran away with this other guy. She could help I always wanted to live in Chicago. You know just make up a bunch random stories to get the cops, look at all over the place and he's very cooperative with the investigation. It seems to me. I get the impression that This is a guy that did care for her at one time, probably still cared for her and he's just trying to help. I think is the closest to be ruled out, obviously there not room one individuals in this case are

ready for some more strange yeah miss in the timeline this item. For some strange, to me. This is one of the more bizarre points in the or events and the timeline on june. Second, detective ross jammer some of the this. This is weird because now we're going to see a whole different agency, we ve talked about avon lake police department, the kent state police department. This when you have this kind of case going on this is receiving some media attention and what it like to me reviewing the file here. Captain is that we have people that want to help that they see something or hear some. They want to pass along the informations to the proper channels pages know who to report it too. So now we're going to see us

agency agency get involved in this is detective of of the portage county sheriff's office, who calls to advise dear darrell Dunlop. Their dispatcher at the sheriff's office received a call from w h, l, o radio. That's a radio station that still around today. For my understanding advising that they received an anonymous call from a male caller who stated that Judy martens could be located buried under a stack of pine branches. A quarter a mile from a burned down cabin at pippin lake. This would be an towners woods park area in Brady lake off of ravenna road Active Jamieson also stated that an individual named jack grey

been hanging around campus and the court house in ravenna talking about towners woods and that this jack gray said that he had done something bad in towners woods, so the sheriff's office is calling to report too thanks. These are, I don't want them to get mixed together. These are two different things theirs. Is caller there into a radio station claim to know where judy was buried and also there this weirdo guy who's hanging around the campus or in the courthouse any saying that he done something bad and towners woods, so this is just this detective doing his due diligence pointing out like anonymous call came in we're not saying it's from this jack gray. We're Simply saying that we all so have an individual. That city did something bad towners woods which is a similar was generally it's the same location as where this enough,

his collar, saying you would find the body of our missing individual well with technology, and some will be police work, maybe they're able to identify this anonymous collar. Well, what was great to captain was the dj that took the car, the anonymous call did try to pry. Some information from the collar is at What's your twenty or player, I can roll on night w and basic w, NBC, so they interview the d J and they talk with anybody that they can talk to at the radio station. His name was rock n roll ralph and they said, the anonymous collar while they didn't give their name or refused to give. Their name did provide an address. Now, of course, the collar could just be throwing out. Somebody else's address.

but they tracked down the address to an individual that they kind of new or that one of the police agency somewhat new to a John Edmunds Now his name is actually reported differently and a couple different spots. Some places he's John Edwards, but the majority of the time is John Edmunds. I think that's just a typo. It was in fact John edmunds, police kind of new. The sky was- and I think it's because he's he's out there, man and so detectives! Learn they go to this address the dream. The address that was given belongs. This John admits, and he claims to have psychic powers possible. Now you never know the other description that they get from the dj was that the collar was described as sound.

Fairly old and may be having respiratory problems. They don't ever state anything about John edmunds having respiratory problems or if he sounded to be old, but he was not an old individual at the time of them going and speaking with him. He agree. To take them to a location in towners woods I'm getting out here, captain is while the collar could have just given some fictitious address. It sounds to me like when you go to the address and the guy's a care of psychic powers, and yes I'll, go to that spot with you in the woods. That sounds to me like confirmation that he was the collar. They go this spot in towners woods and, of course they don't locate, Judy martens buried anywhere at that point, but this John Edmunds to his credit seems to be cooperative. You know, regardless,

his his situation that same day, Nancy martens remember this is Judy's younger sister. She calls the police department and she says that she went and spoke with the couple that was hosting the garage sale and had a long conversation with them, and they talk bout. The girl they could be her sister being at the garage sale in this girl wanted to go to mexico or south america. Now Nancy said after having this long conversation with those two individuals, she believed they were in fact trying to help and that they probably did see and have the conversation that they said they had, but

that they stated about the person that they spoke with at the garage sale, she's telling police like this, wasn't my sister. It may look like her. She may have been about the same age, but there are things that they were tell me about. This person, then do not line up with my sister some good news in this investigation. They are able to locate the individual that they believe was at that grudge sail the mystery garage, sale customer, yes, on june fifth, detective Brandon located a female named lorry gum binder. She is the subject scene at the garage sale by this nighters. They were the ones hosting and the girl. This was also confirmed that Jeff remember he gave somebody a ride. Hitchhiker ride wench! a picture of this lorry individual he agrees. Yes, that's yes, only what she's the one at the garage sale but she's also the girl that I picked up the young lady that I picked up, so

She was located and spoken with, and this was some good detective work, because what he did was he went to a location where you would go to get your photo taken for for a passport. So he goes there with pictures of Judy Martin saying hey: have you seen anybody that looks like her or her? They came in here to get a passport? so that they can go to mexico or south america. That's how allianz up tracking down this individual, so Nancy martens, the younger sister. Her suspicions were confirmed that it was not her sister at the garage. and now a word from our sponsor better help is my favorite sponsor it's one. I use most often it's what has changed my life so dramatic.

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so to the window, sill was cheers every bade chairs to you, colonel, so much more more twist to get into the Judy martens case. The case just keeps getting stranger and stranger as we go along here, but nice to get some answers along the way, pull them through out, something for you and one of the things I was interesting in this case was now she went missing and seventy eight

This is a round the time the world would know as certain individual or come to know a certain of individual ted Bundy and a lot of people when she first went missing started. There was rumours flying around fifty years, this guy that he went to college I he would have been travelling all over the country possibly and is it possible because she looked so much like his typical victim, but one of the things that you pointed out, because the group is most, if not all, of not all victims of TED Bundy were found

It's your lunch break. Her breakfast time cover your ears people, because that his victims were found simply because he didn't bury them. He didn't bury them because he would return and do things with the body have sex with it. That's right and so that all kind of makes sense, and that's why I feel like we can't really place him in this area. At that time, of the night in question- and there was one individual that again, we don't know We'D- have to see hard core evidence of this, but one individual at least that states that Bundy was probably locked up or was in fact locked up. at that time, which seems accurate to me, he did have some ties to pennsylvania. So I wouldn't be out of the room. possibility that he could be in the area are passing through the area and, of course,

A lot of his victims were in fact college aged students yeah, and he would have been serving time and seventy eight and seven time of Florida o this was after the florida. So this with a ban. Yes, so heated, it's not bundy, then we can sounds like we can put a above on that one yeah, but a bow on monday and also ban the tan sudan, and I think, to here. Captain Bundy makes an interesting leap to another. Serial killer, who has been thought of, or actually to other serial killers who have been considered as suspects or persons of interest. In this case the first being a william John posey junior, he's of significant interest to me into this case, because

He is a serial killer, known, identified, serial killer of two women, or some say at least two women. and he was also known to be living in the Kent area. At this time. I thus in earnest and back in seventy eight. In fact, in one article. He lived a ten minute drive from the college campuses and was found hiding in the bedroom closet of a woman who he did not know or who did not know him creeper in kent, and this is according to assistant, chief of police, John peach, so couple issues with this individual one same as Bundy as we don't even know. Yes, yet apartment, not that far blocks away from campus. But that doesn't mean he was in the area at the time, and there is some reports not confirmed, but the

there's some reports that he was actually in jail that night and Columbus? Ohio? Yes, so that this statement is that he was locked up at least in the afternoon or evening hours of may twenty. Fourth, nineteen, seventy eight I d no, when he went into lock up or into the jail, but they have come nation that he was in jail at that time. So that would be an issue for him to get rid of this body. If he was solved in the disappearance it took place in the early morning, hours of may twenty. Fourth, the other thing with post, see that I found very interesting, enormities and columbus, given rather the body. That's true good point one thing that I find interesting about. Posey, though- and this is coming from law enforcement they fur, I believe and of course nothing's one hundred percent until this case is solved

but they firmly believe that had posey killed, Judy martens that he would have told them. So he confessed the two murders that he committed. He confessed to both them and in one case he tried to lead them to the body. That's never been recovered and I think that's another suspicion that people on the outside had the go. Well. Not only did he kill to college age females, but What in one case the body was never recovered? And that's what, Have here and Judy's stays, so that's the similarities, but for me I that's where the similarities and because one of the murders captain he was suspected of in actually convicted of the kidnapping of this young woman, never convicted of having killed her? It was him it was posey who went out of his way when he was

diagnosed, be terminally ill. He reached out to law enforcement and said by the way I did kill this young woman This is how I did it. This is where I did it does. Why did it and I will lead you to her body and those officials have stated outwardly that this man. Yes, he was a murderer, he's a horrible visual, but he was trying to get right with god before he died. He wanted to confess to everything that he had done. He wanted to try to wipe the slate clean. If you will yeah you know me, I don't like to trust guys that use fake names, but was the fake name. He used I knew you were going to put me on the spot and try to make me print out. You say it and not me. It looks like if I were to spell this: it almost looks like scorpion

it looks like he was using the name John t scorpion years score pony or peanut butter. like our opinion, because he had a little weeny looks to me almost like the word score. With an area with a few extra vows in it. Now here's where things get a little more crazy, if they weren't crazy enough for you. Yet if your, if your head's, not spinning like a top than there's something, you have your own issues, here's the problem with this case is when he first here you go well there's a lot of evidence and there's not, but the speculation and the twists and turns around what we don't know, there's a lot

There there is certainly a lot and two pilot on more. We have this really great article that ran about the case in august of nineteen, eighty three and anybody that that's able to locate this are once more information on this case. This would be the first place that I wrecked them to its an august seventh article in the plane dealer of nineteen eighty three, and if it was a magazine you know that's a newspaper, but they also a weekly magazine or monthly magazine. They ran a story that simply titled. Where is Judy martens, and it's a really good, informative article on the case and you have officers reflecting on the case five years after he's been missing and telling you what they did right and what they did wrong and this article really drums up a lot of information and a lot of excitement from the general public

and it really causes a lot of people to start coming forward. In fact, there was one detective that later said that this article in this magazine brought a lot of people out of the woodwork that they started some more information on the case and maybe It was bad information, but what this directly leads to captain is within a very short period of time the Avon lake police department receives a phone call stating that. This is from an individual that works in law enforcement and states. You know on this night very real Lee. We had some one, a woman that was brought in for prostitution charges held here in our jail in that it was Judy martens. I'm telling you that too. We saw now there's a five years after the fact, the law enforcement agency. Basically,

look, it does resemble her. It could be her, although it looks like you know. Not only has she aged five years, but maybe drugs and a hard life of age. Her considerably in that five time period there. So weight. Given to this, the Judy martens must have dropped out of school, headed out of town and became a street Walker in cleveland did they say writing an article, there's a individual that wrote a lengthy article about this situation and states all the similarities between the two well, the first, I should point out is that when this female was booked at the jail, she gives an aim Judy martinez bright. That's not of not afar jump from Judy martens. That's one number two. She looks

was identical to Judy Martin, yes, add ad in the drugs and the hard life right right, but their practically the same height. They look very similar, and this article that I read even states that they had the same birthmark. I mean it goes on and on it just rattles off a whole bunch of. What's what people need to know as that duty at the time that she went missing, they didn't have her fingerprints on file, so they couldn't even test for finger fingerprints at that and they would. They were under the belief that this individual, this Judy martinez would not tell them, would not be honest if she was in fact judy mark so they get Judy martens family involved in this her her mom or die or brother sister. This is where it gets even more while

they go down there and they meet this individual and you say more wild. But I've actually seen red heard. Multiple versions of this story, and this portion of the story anyway and some of those version, say the duties mother believed it was Judy other other, versions of the sorry state that the family knew almost instantaneously, that it was not her that they as much as they wanted it to be her. It was not, and they even felt that this this porter that wrote several articles, or at least one light. The article about this situation that he may have embellished a little bit on the similarities between Judy martini as in Judy martens and made it sound,

like it was in fact the same person before delivering at the end that it was not right now based off of the base. This off of dental records did Judy martens had her for wisdom, teeth removed and this individual still had her for wisdom, teeth and, of course, somebody and reports a week or so later that on very very very rare occasion. Some one can have these teeth removed and they can grow back I'll know this year. I don't know real or not, I've been told that that's a real thing, but I'm not a dentist. I don't play when on tv, and I'm not gonna, pretend to know by the way this robot, the rumor is azure anti dente. My my way teeth have not grown back. I can. I can only report but I know a lot of sense now, Bob you also her they did a handwriting sample. Yes, and do you know what the outcome of that was, I've seen I've seen that it

attached, but I'm not a ninety five percent. That's great and not now hold on just I want. I want people to understand sink this sink in a little bit for the most part, I don't buy the whole polygraph thing, take it or leave it. I think it's a it's a it's a barometer if they don't want to take the test, it's a barometer of where they're at and that's why. I believe that we should a minister the test it shouldn't be allowed in the court. No, no, no! No, but this joke of science should never be allowed and anything, and you have family members there saying nope. That is not duty. We we have dental records as eight nope does not judy, but then none five percent matching the two handwriting samples that this is her. So am I bring this up because when people talk about the handwriting samples

The benet ramsey case just knock it off. This is junk science rant over right and I can agree with you anymore. Their captain there's there's no reason to believe other than he had hug me some suspicions that this person was judy mark in fact, the original name she gives when she is arrested, is sandra lopez and then later says that she is Judy Martinez. I, my guess here is look she's booked and she's going to be charged with criminal. poverty and she probably willing to play along in some way or form she street smart right, she's going to see Hey if I play along with some of this, will help me out of my current predicament and blunt one time she was arrested. She said george lopez. The next day she says, I'm mario lopez well in In the end, she denies being Judy martens her feet. Emily Judy Martens family says this is not her again. Theirs

story where dolores believe did it was re? Her daughter in our third did not believe, and nobody else in the family believed again. I think that portion of the sea might be embellished or it's just it's just a broken hearted woman saying or wanting to try to believe that maybe there's a chance at this is my little girl that I've been missing and lost for five years. In fact, Dolores martens goes out of her way to tell the new papers that poor young woman that I met there. That day was not my daughter, but I'm here to tell you. There was a good soul there a good child inside of that woman, and I feel bad for her and I wish her nothing but the best, and I'm hoping that things can turn around for her it is surprising that Pakistan, she say some mean things for the family. She said you know at some point. Judy martens is better off dead or that's coming from some aid. That's an opposition that she's

and she well she's? Probably a drug addict and yeah yeah. It's it's! It's just another sad portion of this story where it's it's a person, that's lived a hard life and probably been dealt of a bad deal while and you feel so bad luck. I used to say people have the right to make the decision of whatever they want. That's not my place to tell people whether or not there doing drugs but then used are realising Some of them had no choice. Some of them got in a situation where it wasn't just as simple as hey. I went out to party one day and then things got out of hand. Some of these people legitimately get into this situation, and I just feel bad for these individuals because it is part of a is a is a the addiction is a sickness and they probably want to be dead.

So then I'll have to deal with the addiction, but it's sad either way. While it's a downward spiral that they really have no control over, even if they went out and to get clean and do the right thing, they they really don't have in some cases as sad as it may sound, don't have a choice in the matter at some point At the end of the day here, captain, what we have here is a case that is oh, forty years old. Nobody believes no law enforcement agency. leaves it might sound good on the internet or on somebody else's podcast, but no buddy working the case then, nor today believe the duty martens is alive and that she left on her own and started a new life somewhere. I've been told- and I think the evidence points to this, and you brought up something very interesting off mike when we were discussing this case and will get that in just a second. But whoever is responsible,

for her going missing. Their name is in this file. Their name is that time line of that night in the early morning, hours of the twenty third in the twenty fourth, this not committed by ted Bundy. This was committed by william posey. This was not committed by sam little. His name gets mentioned in this case too. Serial killer that was known to drive through ohio and may have every child victims. I think one of the things for him was you'd, do drawings of his victims and sometimes try to put the date of when they went missing or that roughly the tie me the tough thing about this- those who have actually right, nineteen, eighty, six or nineteen seventy six so sometimes is dates- are wildly they then wildly vary, but there is a couple women that could possibly match her

we're from that area, but I don't know if they match up in as as far as timeline goes, and there were some other missing persons cases that Judy Martin's case gets mentioned in the same paragraph with from time to time over the years and that's yovani regular who was seventeen and went missing from that same area, not a college student. She was working at a gas station by yourself and it looks to me, like somebody abducted her the gas station. There was a cathy mauro aged twenty two: you given glory and Judy martens are still missing. To this day, I could not find in spent a good deal of time on this, and it was a fruitless search. Your captain, I could not find any update on Cathy morrows case whether she was ever located found dead,

murdered murder, you know any of those bad news things. I couldn't locate anything on her. I have suspicions that she was probably found, because you have on an judy, are both still listed on the charlie projects. Webs I and other places where tomorrow is no longer listed or was never entered on. The databases and I find that the Charlie project website to be incredibly accurate, one of the more

accurate, if not the most accurate one out there when it comes to nation, wide missing persons and if you're, into missing person cases as much as I am please take the time, even just as much of a as a starbucks cup of coffee. Five dollars goes a long way to supporting them in their research and all the time that they spin it's well worth it because of you, listen to podcast throughout the years he priceless, listen to hundreds of Jesus and they all pretty much reference. The charlie project you're exactly right. Captain there are many pod castors many internet sluice end you tubers that use this Charlie project website in its charlie project, org for those that are not familiar its charlie the. Why go take a little look see on on that website. Making good runs the website and

doing very, very good work. As I like to say, and I hope, those other parts masters, and you tubers our regular donors to her and to that charlie project, because I hope and pray that that never goes away but again, captain this case. Sadly we're looking for a body here and another sat aspect: it law enforcement has basically said you know. If we would have had a body early on this investigation would went completely different and I believe that the person or persons responsible would all maybe in custody, that this would be of an easy case for them too, to execute. even with the blunders and the delay of kent state Avon lake did good work on this, the portage only sheriff's office did good work on this. The! U S, marshals, were brought in on this case in

these guys and girls are no slouches at all. In fact, they were brought in because of the posey portion of this case, because human actually apprehended in texas, two women that he killed, we're not from ohio. He he lived in other states throughout different portions of his life, In fact, I believe one was in vermont again. that he knew a woman that he knew in vermont and one a woman in illinois, so their brought in once. We have somebody who's already in custody, and we have cases that are going from state to state the state and In this case here we are really looking for a body or looking for any of those missing items that were never located the whig. The patient leather purse. Any of those guys it's that she may have been wearing that night or any any form of identity

asian or anything that she would have had with her that night, that is what they are currently looking for, and circling back to one of the most powerful things in this case, and it's something that you said to me, before we hit record when we were just shown in the garage and kind of spit born about the case, you said to me and said you are ahead of the stubby. You said at any point in your research. Could you find But could you find someone saying the Judy martens told them this was returning to her room after hanging out with different people that I now there's one portion in the timeline where she does tell a friend at her door

building that she might return to her friends dorm after going over to visit with some of the fellows over at the male dormitory. But at no point out of all of these guys that saw her toward the end of the night and leading up to her disappearance in none of their statements does any of them say that she said that she was returning to her door. Now a lot of people would go well. Doesn't that on the question the idea that maybe she was taking off, or maybe she went elsewhere and could have been abducted elsewhere. Of course it does. But here's what I want to point out Judy martens probably did not have the opportunity to say that to anyone, because this was probably not a planned murder, something happened in the course of a conversation or activities that night that lead to some kind of struggle.

She didn't have the opportunity to say that she was going home that night, because somebody stopped her from going home that night and I think. We talk about this from time to time here in the garage. Unfortunately, in some cases the perpetrator or perpetrators get lucky here we might have that situation, captain where all of the students leaving campus and the holiday break coming up and can't stay jumping in right away on this may have helped the perpetrator or perpetrators get rid of this body and conceal this body, and it's not been found they got rid of evidence, they clean things up. They got their stories together. That's me, it's very simple truth: we have no eye witness that saw her after the all male dorm room, and I just she's the next skier girl love a good story right? I love a good mystery its variant.

rigging to hear that all there was this mysterious person that was arrested for charges. Cleveland and she looked just like judy gardens and had the same birth dayton birthmark in this that, in the other thing, there's this mysterious shopper at a garage sale who looked just like Judy and said that she was In south amerika there stuff is very intriguing: it wasn't hurt that garage sale. It wasn't her who was picked up in cleveland. Sometimes a cigar is just a smoke and sometimes they. The answer is obvious in it's right there in front of you, and here that's exactly what have, with this case those people, those individuals that, by their own admission, said that they were the last one to see her that night, one of them, or some of them are responsible for this, and one of them may have done it all by themselves. I have a firm belief and a very strong suspicion And plenty of reason and plenty of

friends. Why to believe that, even if one individual took this young woman's life that they probably had some help in getting rid of her body the it's always for listing. Tell your friends tell your brother. Tell your mother how about some recommended reading captain? Yes, sir, this is a must read. You know there are such weird coincidences at times in our lives. Here I was a few weeks ago seeing some case with someone there telling me all about this case that I had never heard of before the case involved twin brothers. One of them was killed. It was originally ruled a suicide and there's a police cover up and a pack of teenagers. This is a case out of colombia maryland

in the nineties and as this person was telling me more and more about the case, I kept saying while this is such an interesting case. Why am I not heard of this case before so then? Just a couple of days later, I find this book called losing John, a teens, tragic death, a police cover up and a community's fight for justice by David. Perish it's a book or in that case. So this book kind of found me I didn't go looking for, and I would not have known about this case if I hadn't been talking to the person. So I love those interesting little coincidence, and so do yourself. A favor and check out losing John by David parish. You'll be reading through this almost two unbelievable to be true, true crime, books, and you ask yourself the same thing: why have I not heard of this case before oh and another we're thing here, captain in the story Christina Gutierrez, the lawyer who defend add non. Siad was the attorney for one of the major players in this story.

Again that's losing John, a teens, tragic death, a police cover up and a community's fight for justice by david perish, and you don't have to that title down right now, because you will find it on our recommended page at true crime, garage, dotcom and until next week be good, be kind those limits.

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