My name is jason alexander, the star of bedtime stories of the angle side in a brand new scripted comedy podcasting, which I play palm springs, hotelier mel haber through and in eighteen. Seventy turn the run down anxiety and into the best kept secret, get away for hollywood's elite. The series also stars, Brian Jordan, Alvarez Michael, the keen richard kind, lance basque, and what you can find bedtime stories of the eagles. I didn't on serious exam, pandora stitched or wherever you get your fight, gas, don't forget to follow the jobs. Are you never misses episode? the

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Nine one one? What's your emergency when you come on here at the columbia daily tribune, what's going on, I'm not sure I've been told to call nine one one that somebody heard outside, or anybody can tell me what's going on there I hear the main building of the caribbean. What's going on working on the sports, editor playing at the ground pool of blood looks like you've been located on a parking lot behind the trinity on the campsite yeah. I thought you guys an area where the lighter black white I'd say: nineteen twenty. What were they wearing I don't know this galaxy saw them. She wiped out, a cigarette, saw them ducked down behind the car. Okay, I looked down and saw him, and I said what's going on, I knew it was ken's car and I said cat and they didn't look up. nobody did anything nobody's been hurt man, okay, so you saw them ducked down behind his car, yes, okay and then, where did they go after?

I don't know the new building towards more important. So I was down on the parking lot. Yes, that all on these guys, I don't think they said there were close to sixty. Then one of them had blond hair I nor really short either one man had had their hands sport streets without too many therapy well how's that for sure, because they took off went up that alley way toward forward alright got off on the way over there right now, I will be out there. Ok, the

the. I welcome the true gram garage wherever you are whatever you are doing, thanks for listening, I'm your host nick and with me isn't guy that less than two weeks ago the mayor of indianapolis gave him the key to the city. He is Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It's good to be seen and gets you thanks for listening thanks for town, a friend

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aaron. Who is a web sleuth or turned a private investigator in me? Maryland it's the crab cake state, a big we like the jib to kendra up in an area in it and we also have meredith sending love from hot springs, arkansas, hot pants and urban, the hot springs. We also give a shot out to look well in the bronx and, last but not least, we have john from western massachusetts. He recommends spencer, trappist ale, and he says obviously here quoting ferris beauty It is so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking sum up, will you have a kits for your betty so thank you to everybody for filling up the fridge for this week and if you want to buy us around for next week, show please go to true crime, garage dot, com and click on the donor. But if you want to check out everything with through crime, go to the website, we also have some shirts. We have the purple be next. We have the team captain take

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The this is true crime garage, and this is the case of ryan. From the how many times do you think he will do this once I just didn't, want you just the way. I remember the first time that I hit him. I remember hearing this noise and it just made me sick. If you want to get sick, you have to hand it off to live, because this guy's got head wounds all over. His head,

we're talking strikes almost saddam. Did you drop by Did you go back, when we're about now, We know what you're trying to figure out and holding back. Is it possible that gw started wasn't used to tell me I pick it up or something. I know it wasn't a shit like maybe a bomb or something from his car around the car. Well, we know for a fact that his build was ripped off the roof so do I look like a road map so it's possible this bill, got keys, and you don't know the guy well yeah he's on that. Yes,

it's not at all. Like I she's all, I thought you said it or something about rivers. Ryan was choking, data make sure he was dead. Is that I think that you, like yeah,. The ryan ferguson was convicted of the murder of kent height halt can murder took place in the?

in the morning, hours of november, first, two thousand and one and ryan ferguson's hometown of columbia. Missouri at the time of the murder, ferguson was only seventeen years old. He was a junior in high school kent, height holt was found, beaten and strangled shortly after two a m on november, first, two thousand and one in the parking lot of the columbia daily tribune. Kent worked there as a sports editor. The murder went unsolved for two years until police received a tip that a man this is Charles Erickson. He was extremely drunk. That night

he could not remember some of the events that took place that evening and most of what took place around the time of the actual murder. After reading newspaper articles, Charles ericsson was having dreams about the murder. He told a couple of people that he had concerns that he may have been involved in the actual murder. One and chuck had a drug problem as well. Correct charles ericsson was parting with Brian ferguson on halloween night. Toby thirty first now this would be Wednesday night, but we all know how much everyone likes to party on halloween. We, and ryan? They were doing quite a bit of underage drinking at a bar that night and a party they had started in the evening here turned into partying into the early morning. Hours, charles or chuck ericsson would later confessed to the murder of kent. I hope, Implicate ryan ferguson in the murder as well ryan ferguson was convicted in the fall of two thousand

five and where you can hear in that trailer is the interrogation of chuckie yeah in there was kind of aid just went through his summarised version of the case, which we usually don't go through. That and summarize the case. Or you before. We are not going to stop list yeah you got out. I know everything all right see as next week. What will you do? don't do that before we go through in detail, but we wanted to do that because, with this case, it's it's actually very important that persons not familiar with this case have that information when it comes to ryan ferguson. Not only was his innocence or guilt called into question before he was convicted, but both were called into question years after his conviction, which ultimately would lead to appeals trials and then ran ferguson's conviction was vacated in november of thousand and thirteen. So I just want everybody to be aware of that situation fully before we go through the detailed account of what took place the evening of October third

First, in the early morning, hours of november, first, two thousand and one so each of you make a little mental note of when you think of you know at some points to some things might point towards ryan's guilt or if it would point towards his innocent on. Don't you tell me what to do? Ok, let's go through a detailed account of that night and first will go through the police, slash prosecutor story of that evening as what they piece together off of eyewitness accounts and the confessor. This is charles or chuck eriksson, and will call him chuck for on my comp chuckie there you go on the evening of october thirty, first, two thousand and one as we said many people were out celebrating halloween this, including students from both of the cities too high schools. We will start the evening off rough in the time frame of about nine to ten p m. There are several hollow parties going on and the ones

you're talking about have both high school age, kids and young adults just out of high school at these parties. Ryan ferguson is party hopping that evening and as the night goes on, he's getting ready to leave a party and he sees chuck Eriksson HU, as we said, he knows him from school, some ever did that ryan and chuck were hanging out that night together. Others report that ryan offered shook a ride as he was leaving the party. I think either way actually works. It's not really important. So, however, it comes about they are writing together and ryan's car ryan tells chuck ma and thus get this clear too, because a lot of people report like that their bodies colleague in the west Memphis three case where it's like at the two of them were buddies and one was just kind of acquaintance in this scenario: ryan and chucky they're just acquaintances yeah. They know each other from school, they're the same age. They probably have a couple classes together

but from everything that I could gather your exactly right. Captain They d done sound like they were. They were not best friends a they really didn't, even hang out a whole lot, almost on opposite sides of the track. I mean we have individual with ryan that seems to be heavily involved in sports. Ah, you know with his family and a lot of friends, and it seems like chuckie, is kind of on the slackers. and they ran in the same circles, but the circle wasn't just the two of them. It was. You know many friends that they had made anyway, so, regardless of how they end up in ryan's vehicle there in his car and at some point either before them later during the ride ryan says to to chuck. You know: hey, let's go to this club. My older sister is at a club and she can get us in and we can continue to party. You know we'll go there and have a few drinks, right. Ok sounds great, so the two under age, seventeen year old boys out looking for good time. They meet up with

I insist well and they're, going to meet up at a bar called by george. Hence it's a dumb name for a bar. Sorry, if you owned that bar and I'm talking about it or if your name is george, I don't mind the name. Georgian the same by george is a kind of a dumb name for by chuck ericsson states that that the two spent up, what money that they had once they were at the bar ok and then ryan sister bought a drink or two for them, and then the two left you know cause they were out of money once outside ryan is calling people on his self, now I couldn't gather why ryan was calling a bunch of different people, but I'm going to guess that ericsson, the chuck, would have said, possibility that that the rhine was looking for someone with money to either join them at by georgia's more looking for another place to go party, because what chuck ericsson would say is that ryan ryan

said next would imply that rhine was not done parting for the night. So with with no one left to call ryan tells chuck, hey man, let's go rob someone, so we can get enough money to get back into the bar and have some more drinks, here's a plan happens every week and how many times you at a bar in your body, says lescaut rob some base who can drink more well before or they leave ryan's car. They take a like attire iron or one of those tire changing tools that come in the trunk of your car. They take this item, and so they walked their potential robbery or mugging victim, while they spot forty eight year old, can't io can, as we had said, can as working late at the columbia daily tribune. This would be approximately two

tina Amor. So now I do want to point out here that several people were working at the columbia daily tribune that night early morning hours, whatever you want to call it and that the times will most of the times we give during This detailed account are going to be more approximate times for most of this stuff. We do not have exact times. For one reason we have our main witness, which is chuck eriksson, who ends up confessing to being a party The crime implicating ryan ferguson chuck had fully admitted he was so drunk in high that night that they had been drinking doing. After all, cocaine that nice, so quite the auction inside of him tat, shockey, slow down and well. He admits to being so messed up that he cannot remember most of the night. So there's one reason of not having exact times, but what we will figure out here is the almost you know,

almost in the same breath that I say to point out that we do know that these times from the other eye witnesses are close, are somewhat accurate because we are dealing with such a small window of time that they have to be closed. Ok. So how do we know ryan and chuck spot can't at approximately two fifteen a m while Michael Boyd, he another employee of the daily tribute he's working he's a writer a part time rider. He says he left work some time before can height halted, and He knows this because he left around two a m and on his way out, he stops and he has a short conversation with MIKE Henry he's. A night custodian at the at the tribune. Michael Boyd walks the parking lot and he gets to his car. He will have to actually pass kent's car to get to his own car. Then he goes

was out to his car in when he's out there. He sits there for a little bit of time listening to some music when he sees kent leaving work and going out to his car to leave for the array. Why would you just get a new car? and listen to music for awhile before you leave. It seems strange to me at that hour right. You know, especially at that hour michael pulls his car up along side of cans, and they have a discussion according to Michael boyd. This conversation is a work conversation that takes place some time between twelve to twelve, a m sorry and two twenty a m Michael boyd, says: after the conversation he leaves in his car and he's he goes to drive home as he's pulling out and into the alley. He says that he nearly hit someone. He sees two people in the

king lot? My this is not can't can't is not one of the people that he's describing anesthesia younger people as well, as does he not make that claim to be clear. All he says is that he sees Michael ceased to people and he cannot tell if the people are male or female, but also basically right. O description of the people. Anomalies, summers! Yes, so these two people could be chuck and ryan because they would have to have a have arrived some time in this timeframe to the parking the columbia daily tribune and you'll, see why here in a minute, so the attack would goes something like this can't would be hit in the head or neck area about eleven are

well times with some unknown object or the tire tool as chuck had said right then as the victim can't, is down on all fours from the blows he just took some one you know and that someone according to chuck is ryan pulls the victims bell off now. He would have had to have done this according to the police, by pulling by pulling up from the left hand, side, you know from from like reaching around from behind can't on the left side and grabbing the bell and pulling it up and off right. They came to this conclusion because two of the belt loops on the left side of kent's pants were ripped or torn off then using the victor

own bell. Ryan ferguson strangle on the so you're saying that they believed that the belt was ripped off of him because there was to cause the belt loops were broken to two of his belt loops were were ripped. Ok, then using the victims, own belt, ryan ferguson strangled kent. I holt a very short time before to twenty six a m, a custodian. This is her name is shawna ort. She stepped out side for a cigarette break or to walk some trash to the dumpster now or both yeah. My understanding is that sometimes a smoke, break and walking trashed dumpster are the same thing anyway, with gray report in the vague happened at the same time anyway, she is out there and she is, she sees to shadow. Will ye figures near kent car. She ran back inside to get her coworker. This is jerry trump.

She's telling him that there is something going on in the parking lot and she wanted him to go out there and see what it was. He doesn't really want to do this, but he gives in, and he agrees to go check it out. So now, two of them: while they are standing their standing at one of those like you can I got a large overhead door. You know their standing just passed the opening of that and at first they don't say anything. You know you know jerry trumps, probably like a great. I agreed to come out and check out this thing, you're just you just freaking out for nothing. There's nothing going on out here. They don't see anything illegal in as scarier was once a month, as I see it the outside and you new stuff Look in any guy. I see nothing but sometimes at the door, you're, not as relieved while they nothing at first. They hear nothing at first, so jerry trump decides he yelled out something like you, I see you you might as well come out. You might as well stand up or something like that

put your hands up into into you'll stand up and one of them is at the front of cancer car near the front of the echo, the other one is at the rear of the vehicle, so both both custodians witness to what they what they report as white college age. Men now standing near can high holts vehicle. They also both said that the man at the rear of the vehicle he walked to the front of the car and said something to the effect of this guy is hurt out here or you better call someone you better get call an ambulance. Something like that that this disguise her in he needs help. But what you are saying is that these two to employees of the newspaper ceiling. to individuals nanda parking lot ducking down, possibly hiding behind Kent's car. And then one of them kind of walks from the back. The car to the front and then says, hey

a car ambulance. This has heard out here yeah. He says something like get help. This guy's hurt. Now that's something new products. Say. If you hurt the guy guide, I dont know it's it's a visit. Strange situation, regardless re. If you buy, if you're, going to take somebody's bell off, put it around their throat and pull as hard as you can, so they stop breathing. I don't think you're asking somebody to call the ambulance know you want that guy dead for some reason: yeah, you don't want him to be able to come to and and give information about right according to the police report, the employees called nine one one at two, twenty six, a m, but we have that nine one one call it the beginnings of. If you want to hear it again, go back to the beginning, some of the other sport reporters working that night came running out to see what was going on and they found forty six year old can height holt lang,

face down at the rear of his car, now they rolled him over and they tried to resuscitate him and, of course, unfortunately, it didn't work. The police department was within just a few blocks of the newspapers parking lot in the newspapers building, so they arrived very quickly when they got there. They saw Kent had been severely beaten with some kind of blunt object and he was strangled and dead at this point one. We we both took a look at the autopsy, but we're not going to govern a bunch of details cause it's pretty simple to summarize, but they keep talking about this blunt object and been hit well over ten times, and you even hear this and that interrogation with the police and and Chucky. But they keep talking about blunt object, but there's no skull fractures, correct, there's they don't find any skull fractures on. Can I or so so it's death by strangulation as high or

bone is broken here and there is a little there's, a little conjecture, there's a little back and forth on the highway bone being broken as well. There's one expert that says that he believes the highway bone was could have been broken because if he would because he was hit, he was hit about the the head and neck air but the original. The original expert believes that the high oil bone was broken during the strangulation process. I dont think that that is necessarily important. I think the most important thing that I see in the autopsy itself is like you said the number of times that that can is hit with they keep referring to it as a blunt object threat but, like you said no skull fracture. So to me, it's more of he's, hit eleven or twelve times with an unknown object right, but who was the expert teams

you that one time like you took a ten year old girl, yeah there, the bat or somethin in and there's gonna be skull fractures didn't? Actually this? Is it wasn't something that someone told me it was a comment that was made to ryan ferguson's father to bill ferguson that he reported elsewhere, stating that you know it. It was strange that there was no skull fractures, because in expert quote, unquote an expert according to bill Ferguson had told him that a twelve year old girl, the baseball bat if she hit somebody eleven, twelve or fifteen even fifteen times but you're gonna, have several skull fractures, not just one you're, going, have you're gonna you're gonna, get a few out of that. So He's hit was some kind of unknown object which will call it that might need so he's not gonna. Make it right and at this point chuck ericsson claims that he and

I and after having murdered can't did they take this kind of this very kind of roundabout way of walking back to the bar, but before they get there. This is at approximately two thirty a m. They are at an intersection and there is a car. There stopped at a red light or in inside the car. While this this is somebody that the two boys know and his name is dallas mallory Dallas is in a car with two young. Ladies Dallas is actually a two years older, I believe, play I'll play off. Ninja arrive. Well, chuck ericsson has a short conversation with Dallas mallory at its at the red lines of visas. Are you in the truck with two women? He asked well the

The the light eventually turns green and away dallas, and the two girls go right right. So so now it's back to by georges for chuck and ryan and we'll get right back to the case of ryan ferguson. After this quick Let's take a second and talk about two of the grossest words in the english language dog food dog food is literally how we describe food so grow our tongues, one touch it with a ten foot pole economic sense. Kibble is oh over process so cook to a crisp that it actually stopped. Looking like food at all and it does it nourish our dog slight real food either. That's why there's fresh pet for your dogs fresh, but is it dog food, its food food? It's real meet real vetches, gently steamed,

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The. the or back cheers mates cheer. So after ryan and shock commit this mark day. According to chuck, they go out with the motive of robbery. They attack can height halt and they kill him in the parking lot. Now they ve taken this roundabout way of making their way back to the bar and their back it by georgia's. According to shock, they get back to the bar around to forty five, a m and they stay there- drinking dancing having a good time until about forty four fifteen, a m in the morn. While these bars or open pretty late and this only makes sense right, because we we saw this with the with the casey anthony thing right right. You know when, when you kill somebody, or the best way to celebrate, is to go to a bar and dance and party and have a good time. You know certainly

now now, while the two of them are off having a good time when the police have a murder in a crime scene to deal with here, so the police are going to do a canine search, and I won't go through all of the street names, but basically the police dog is going to track. Slash, follow the trail of the perpetrators and the dog lead them in the opposite direction as to where chuck ericsson says that they are going to go? Of course, the dog, the dog chase, does not turn up the

perpetrators and we do have another problem here with this crime scene, the tribunal parking lot well, it has two to security cameras and these security cameras are very obvious. You know they're the type that would be upon the building and if you were walking by they weren't hidden cameras. You know you would you would notice them from the street and be aware that the parking lot is under surveillance. However, you know we. Unfortunately, we see this time in time again in these situations that these cameras are not working on this night, oh really yeah, so the police really have no leads other than the description that their given from the two custodians that they are looking for. Two caucasian college age dude

as per the description given to them, the short hair, one may be blonde spiked up in the front and they do they do a drawing of the there's at least one of the individuals. Well yeah. This is shawna aunt and jerry trump, the the employees at the daily tribune, we should point out here that early in the investigation, jerry trumps statements were deemed as useless by the police as his description that he gave to them. It was so vague that it really prove I did them nothing of value. You know he basically says I. Really couldn't see anything I really good see anything to describe these guys now, as you had mention sean ort, on the other hand, with the with the police departments use of what they call like an identical or an I d kit, they come up with a composite sketch of the guy who walked from the rear of the visa

to the front of kent I holds car. You know the guy telling them to go away in china's she's younger. Yes, so will the cis assume she has better eyes and I think she was what eighteen or nineteen at the time when she saw the Yes was young and and trump and trump was quite a bit older at the time. Yes, and now basically the way that they come up with this composite drawling. It's it's that old school identikit and in some places they may call it something different, but based What they do is captain bill show you they have like a flip book and there, like they'll, show you a bunch of different sets of eyes in your life, all that looks like his eyes and they like. Ok, this they set those on the face, and then they flip through the book when they show you nose, like all your that looks like his nose, and so you piece together the person's face, one, the price what this drawing is begin its happening. very late at night or in the early mornings. It's very dark out

very low lighting so and then, if an actually, I would say you know during if it was during the day, obviously you'd, be it be easier to identify. Somebody, I think, would be way harder to do this. A dennett kit when there is heavy shadows on the street lights. Why agree- and I dont know that it was fully like as far as the way I heard the parking lot described, I'm sure they're dark spots in dark areas. Shaw, it states that, when she saw the man that she was able to come up with a composite drawing of that that was it, she believed to be. Oh, what she considered a well lit portion of the hard right again, but the you're gonna have these hard. Shall you more still all the lights are coming from above and if you watch any the documentaries on this case it you know, you can see how dark that area with Ben yeah and to go with the composite drawling

you know she describes. The guy has a caucasian mail about six foot tall, two hundred pounds, muscular build wearing a white t shirt and has possibly has short blonde hair. Now some other things. While we are talking about the crime scene, there was a blood trail which makes sense because we have a victim that was beaten in the head and you would expect a certain amount of blood. So there was a blood trail, but this went in again in a different direction than what chuck said he and Ryan had fled the scene. Police found a hare either in or on the hand of the victim. This would be collected and later tested. They did not find the blunt object or, as chuck had said, the tyre tool used to beat can't they did not find that at the crime scene they did find the belt buckle. Kent's belt

boy had broken off and was lying there near the near can't they found finger prints, not matching the victim in and on the victims vehicle end, and one more thing, though, that the police found no evidence to suggest can't had been raw so keep mind you trying to find the motive yeah there they're going to check the victim and try to come up with. Why would this guy be attack act while they don't see any obvious signs that the robbery was the motive for this type of this attack or murder. So at this point they are looking for two young white dude, and they don't have a motive to go on at this point in their investigation Why so we go to the fine day, then we- I call this the hang over day when we get to individual that were seventeen years old, they went party in awe. Chuckie was doing a blow drink doing some add a and he play

is that doesn't remember anything of the events the night before. Yet he has no memory of holloway night and also you know. As we said there, there was nothing other than probably one heck of of the hang over, like the captain pointed out there, the thing had went wrong or anything terrible had happened. That night chuck did not notice anything unusual. He he didn't have any injuries. He didn't have any blood on his clothing. Let's talk about. Let's talk about chuck for fur minute, though again

I you know, as we had said earlier, he's the same age as ryan. Seventeen at the time of this murder and a high school student, but but one big different thing here is you know where I, unlike the party, obviously like, like some high school students, do, however, chuck had a bit of a history. He had a he had a reputation for blacking out and a history and a reputation for getting really blitzed. You know whether being drinking or drugs or both, and he would from time to time, do something bad or embarrassing. You know he would destroy. He was known to destroy property or to gettin fights and then typically the next day. He would have little to no memory of these events or the things that he did well, then people will tell him what he had done and sometimes these memories, what while they would start to come back to him and

Maybe sometimes they would not, but is my understanding that he had such a reputation for this kind of behaviour that often he was not invited to parties, because nobody wanted him around once that nobody wants the deuce canoe, breakin furniture right! You don't want the fights. You don't want that guy at your house that started the party yeah cause you're, going to get busted by your parents. If this guy destroy something. Second of all, you don't want him there. If he's going to pick fights with your friends, getting you know getting destroying stuff in just being. Basically, a walking party foul raise is what chuck ericsson would be: chuckie chuckie, a K party, FAO ericsson. So, let's ok before we fast forward, let's go through what happened that night according to ryan. Now of course, this was I get so what we would need to be clear about this. Okay, all the reports that you were just giving define beautiful people listening to the show

all the reports that you're giving are just from from chuckie, but also from the police correct its basically the this, the jenny, story that the prosecutor, slash police, pieced, together about what took place that none right but, like we all know, there's three sides to every story. Well, according according to ryan, you know- and I didn't want to mix the two stories, because not only are they very different, but well, let's say the night in the way things went down according to ryan. Let's say it was much less eventful. According to ryan ferguson, he and chuck did go to the bar. They went to buy georgia's. They met his sister there they had drinks, they left the bar. at one, thirty, a m, so we're already seeing a difference in time. Here, ryan drove chalk to chucks home

and then ryan continued on to his own home, arriving at his family's house around one, forty, a m, so very, very quick drive from by georgia's to get chuck home and then ryan takes himself. then, in the early morning, hours after he gets home from one forty one, a m two to oh nine, a m ryan call several friends, and then he goes to bed. having murdered. No one. That evening being and actually being according to his account right indeed at home at his family's homes, the time of Kent. I hold murder yeah, ok, so we got two completely different stories on one story. We got two murders and the other story. We got a guide dropping. You know I dropped my buddy off. We had a couple of drinks dropped often drop in his really drunk buddy off. oh yeah, not just drunk but high to how about how about we fast forward here captain. So

this fast for it and who delorean two thousand and three now by time the murderer remain. Unsolved mister. You know in october, two thousand and three the local media again began. They were covering the story. They were covering the murder and chuck ericsson reportedly had several dreams about the crime. After seeing and an order or in a newspaper, and he couldn't get over the fact that he had been so close in proximity to wear some had been murdered at about the same time, my annie I had almost no memory of that night while ray because he has that history of blacking out and about a month later or so chuck he he. He read another article in the in the local newspaper, but this one included a sketch, the sketch

the possible suspect in the case remember this was the one given to police by thy witnessed china ort working at working that night at the tribute chuck thought that the sketch looked like himself now he now he's really starting to get concerned that he was. somehow involved in this murder. Now, when, when he's at this point, when he gets really drunk, he starts telling some people that he thinks he's committed murder. Roar was at least involved in the murder of Kent height whole or part part of this. As you know, they're not fully developed your your frontal cortex and all that stuff, I'm not a doctor. So The e taken all those drugs right. It's gonna mess up your brain a little bit and I think this guy took some drugs fried is damn bringing. It may be too often

you know! Is it? Is it the same thing? Are you beaten your brain, the same level as like getting multiple concussions over and over again with what he's doing is blocking out. Then I mean he had in his head when he's drunk two minutes? That's no good point, so now he's getting really drunk any source, telling people that he thinks he may have committed the murder, or at least in then the murder, well, he this is definitely not helping. You know you with your friends there chuckie kick, you already have this bed butane should now scoggins drunk he breaks furniture. He hits the fight people and then how he's confessing de murders don't invite this to your party rule number one is not going to be good time is going to work out well for you, you're, not gonna, be the popular kid in school. combining chuckie to the party? It sounds like he. Only told to people these were his friends is going into. People would hang out what the crazy do. This is nick gilpin and art figaro The thing is, I dont know if the

toll gills and these two guys on separate occasions, or you know if he told them together on several occasions, I'm not certain but as as I've heard, it he's only told to people monsieur, assuming that he told nick gilpin the story, one time and then old, captain gilpin was like I'm not which had no more chuckie. Well, it's through these two friends or shot- is, is you know that later, let's hold on conferencing? This thing about this way: unique, gilpin, you're hanging, with chuckie, so you don't have a lot of options right. This guy break stuff gets invites. and then he tells me he tells you murdered somebody right or he thinks he did, what how low do you have to be? How bored? How lonely do you have to be to pick up the phone and say call him up and I'm gonna call Chucky up and see if he wants to hang out

you gotta be pretty lonely ray it's more details about the murder. Well, it's through these two friends The police are later notified and told the chuck ericsson was one was the one who killed the newspaper reporter or that was involved in the newspaper reporters death that took place two years and so in our eu still with me so far in march of two thousand and four look, I want him so we have. We have the the that happens on halloween two years later, trucks is having these dreams or just telling people sorry, Tom people, they contact the cops and even if the luck, if, if somebody gets drunk and starts telling you they murdered, somebody call the cops, that's what you do and so the they call the cops. Now the cops need to talk to chuckie yeah. So in march of two thousand and four, the columbia police department, they pick up chuck Eric

and they question him. Well, not too long after and in fact, I believe it was later that same day they call another police department, because by this time ryan was off at a junior college and they have ryan ferguson arrested as well. Well, these two questionings by police go very differently and let's talk about this, let's talk about this starting with chuck okay, so you played some of that interrogation force right and you know you see in the questioning, there's there's a couple different levels of questioning that take place here. First off there's some questioning that goes down off camera, there's some. That goes on camera, and there is also a questioning period that takes place on camera, where they are driving him to the crime scene and their driving him around the area. So he can. You know they can point,

things out to them and they can kind of ask him. Where did you guys come from? But did you enter the parking lot? This way which we need? You exit: where did you go after the murder? You know, what can you tell us where his car was parked things like that? You know they have to take him there. Well, regarding the questioning or slash interrogation of chuck ericsson, it's what would you say? It's disconcerting captains unethical. So we have a guy

here. The problem is, though they pick this guy up, and he saying you know I maybe of dream. Maybe I was involved in this thing. I'd I dont know it's it's I blacked out that night. I have very little memory. He says something leg he seeing almost snapshots of of the of the night. Well they're going to they're going to it looked to me. Captain like it started off like a kind of a friendly questioning period and at some point they start getting. You know we see a typical melody, my here's, what the detectives do that Acta spread their legs very wide and I to get a little tiny baby chair and then they screwed up really close. You know their homes, you know cock and balls and everything right on the guy's knee and then there in deep into their eyes and they start saying stuff like you need to tell me the truth.

You not tell me the truth so that yeah sort of friendly than they do the whole. Let me get right in your grill to come a little bit later. They back they also wants. Danes are goin their way they like to do the lean back. talking about where they they are starting to get answers. So they do the lean back well and they keep you as they keep you position back in the corner and they they stay right in front of your in your face bright, but once they start getting answers they like the backup and do the lean bang you know like Let's make this more comfortable for you and when you're not telling me the truth, I'm going to make it uncomfortable for you well and they're also constantly reminding that reminding you that you did this, that you are guilty

yes, they will emphasise that word you and they will often point at you when they do that or or touch you in some manner, to remind you that, in that it is you that is under the microscope right. It's not it's not a whole bunch of other people that their looking at they have circled in on you. Yes, oh couple things one I feel for the detectives, because there's no real leads. They had nothing to go on all this two years later, you have this guide, chuckie come or saint I'm having these dreams. I have a history of black out. I might have been involved. Ok, so yes, the cops need indicates the bottom of this. So I Look I I'd normally would say no way shape or form. Should you ever feel details, but I think in this Yes, I'm gonna give him a little bit of a pass, because this guy's and I dont know I don't know a bunch of the details well, I'm not gonna give you pass as once: chuckie brain somebody else into the equation.

He brains up ryan ferguson into the equation, your job now is too. If you want to find out, if he's telling you the truth, you need it. ok on trying to prove him wrong and that's what they should have done. First, I am going to half way agree with you, because it sounds like you're saying if, if it were just chuck, it was, it was implicating himself and no one else that it's fine to give up the details that not find a give up all the deep right, because the problem I have with that is the whole purpose of withholding those details. Is that so you avoid false confessions and if you start just giving away information That's really going to help this person, whether they did it or not. Get the right. Answers leads right, so where do we have a problem with some of these things? Well, but bo,

I'm saying, though, as he could drive him to the scene, you could do certain things. May I you know maybe try hypnosis or whatever just to see if you can to get these memories to come back to the surface, but I'm not telling him. I'm not saying that you should. Say what the guy was strangled with or details like that, no definitely not right in in in the beginning of the questioning or interrogation, it appears, and we we can see it on tv. We see it on the camera footage. It appears that ericsson, that chuck has little knowledge of the crime and at one why he tells the police. I could be sitting here fabricating all of this right now, as the captain was hinting towards their. They want some detail. Information you know they want to know what did you? What was Kent strangled with? Ok, how many times was he hit? What was he

with okay. So let's go through that as such. He he states that they they took something from ryan's car and that's what they are going to attack kent and he assumed like attire iron. Yes again now, if you hit now, he was about fifteen times if he hit some fifteen. Times in the head, the tire iron there's going to be a skull fracture, an maybe not chucky, cause chuck he's a small guy, but he give a a pretty good athlete and ryan ferguson, a tire iron, there's not going to be skull fractures, it's going to be a mutilated skull. One thing we should point out too, though, to paint a bit of a better picture for everybody is that I would actually, I would actually consider both chuck and ryan, to be smaller, dudes, and you know, I think what ryan was five. Eight five nine and we have

chuck, whose of whose about five, seven and in in the reason? Why say smaller dues is dat's in comparison to can't height hope can, I hope, was well over six foot and he was a large dude. He plea played often of line for for some college. Before he became a sportswriter. So, yes, I understand that they might be armed with this tire iron or some blunt object or unknown object. But it does seem strange to me that these two teenage boys These would pick a very large male victim to to attempt to rob yeah. A riot reign was, you know, he's athletic yeah. I don't know, I don't know exactly what his height is now d deftly looked very athletic anyway, so as we were stating they need

know what he was hit with and furthermore, who hit him and how many times was he hit with this object? Well, here's one thing that I found a really strange about that interrogation. You solve this. You know he says how many times with did was can't hit. Did you hit him once there is like no come on, we know we know shock that he was hit a lot more than one time and then he throws out some other number. That is not correct and then the the detective corrects him, and he says now. We know that can't that you hit kent fifteen times. Is that right and eventually chuck gives into this and says? Yes, I hit him fifteen to ryan. This is what I find it so unethical, while not only that the strange part of this thing here his captain is it first of all its incredibly unethical. Second of all, the

active, fed him information but fed him wrong information. He says fifteen times the the autopsy report states eleven or twelve times the detective demean bothered. The wrong. It do you know the wrong information right right and in so he feeds him some, information and we have chuck validate then corroborate with that and says: yes, you know it yeah we're but re iterative, There's a couple times that chuck has gone, you know why, but how really? Now I dont really if I'm telling you the truth or not right, and then then want to know? Okay, what what did you use to strangle? Kent I'll know his t, shirt, yeah, and actually I I thought when I viewed the the the full length of the of the questioning the interrogation yeah, I thought that I saw him almost react. He didn't verbally

but it looked like his his his body. Language was suggesting that he was about to say his hands. Young lady, I fancy said no did did ryan How did ryan chokingly again? implementing ryan and not chuckie in and he makes I saw ryan hands, you know of symbol, makes a gesture about choking with an aid homer simpson unworthy of bart simpson type move so yeah and they are like now, that's not right in his equal. Maybe a t shirt yet horror. It states that the officer would tell him. You know it might have been something of kent's. That was used to to strangle him any and, as you said at first, he says a T. as I know, was in his t, shirt and then, This is a question like of five year old. You know that like took a crap on and the family room that that that's what

This question reminds me a well and then you you hear him say so he says no, wasn't a t, shirt chuck radin shocks as well. Maybe it was bungee court. I dont know because I couldn't see him having a rope in his car ray making sense to me why he would have a rope in his guards xo. So all right look well. It's examined that obviously in a teacher. I've known wasn't with it. Wasn't His hands right wasn't strangled with it and he wasn't strangle with teacher- wasn't strangled with a bunch of cord, wasn't strangle with a rope. and it wasn't something that was taken from the victims car. It was something that was taken off of the victim, right right after five wrong answers after I've wrong answered. Maybe you as a detective should go hey guy, doesn't know jack shit. He right there. He does. He doesn't know, what's going on yeah by right. So at what point does the tit the detective say hey this? Is

dickie list. This is nonsense, not only and here's what they do, they feed him all this information? They feed chuckie all this information. They get a tape confession they think. Maybe this can hold up and then they pull ryan ferguson Well, you know I'm not ready to go that far yet because stolen the belt thing here. You know we that the officer tells just outright. tells him strangled with his own belt, a no no. He sits back with justice cocky, so of a bitch type attitude. He just sit back and ngos goes can hold in this from you. Keeping this back for me. I don't want to tell you, but it was a bell. That's pretty much exactly actually way says rate and chuck says something like Why don't remember that at all like he seemed surprised liked it. The murder weapon like like shocked No, no, he he does he

I understand what he is saying because All the sun than chuckie says wait. A second is not without its own bat right and not Brien's bell, but his own bell, oh, like flabbergasted like like this, the first If they somebody pulled up on Kent, two minutes had it ten times eleven times pulled, this dude fell off. strangled him with its own belt. You have to be a vicious as o b to do that. Well and, like you said he's. His reaction is almost like give fired up man what chucks reactions almost like I'm trying to help you out your guys, but I would not have guessed that you know o my best day. I would not have guessed his own bell

best day right so anyway, then now they gotta figure out. What is the motive? Why would you guys go and attack this large man that you dont know in the middle of a parking lot? You don't know the did nothing to you and here's the answer that you get after all after you go through all of these details. The answer that you get is well I guess, if we killed him, then I assume we would have done it for money right no sign of robbery right right. This is this- is unethical, horrible, horrible. Please work and an I believe. Just like and we'll talk about this later. You know a prosecutor, for example, can't just make up the fake evidence and there's law

against that and you can face jail time just like. I think we know now that we require people to tape. These interviews. They need to be well aware that if you cross the line- or you do some ridiculous, dumb shit that you can face el time- and I believe in this case, that these detectives doing there participation. They deserve jail time. These interrogations were so unethical. His son to serve and protect not to make up. bullshit lies and put innocent people behind bars. Well, the thing here is when they're talking to ryan ferguson, it's a much different story. You know we have. We have ryan ferguson, basically denying everything, but do you want to just hear that clip yeah. The I didn't do anything

and I'm here for murder I didn't do trucks- is that you got kind of sick to his stomach after you did this guy He lived, owes you and how, The guy is a strange. I sat by her voice well, I mean he could very well have been part of on. it was already come down and we started talking about the murray. Like I didn't know when they're doing something about the police. For me and say we were talking about a murder, I'm gonna be getting about how crazy I am crazy. Did the person sick, like theater, I didn't do anything about to get in trouble for something I did.

All right so that some little pieces of the rhine, ferguson interrogation, I gotta tell you captain. I watched that thing and I thought that right. Actually held it together. Pretty well MA am not in a way that would imply to me that he is guilty, like the detective was trying to point out. You know stating- often we pull me and for murder, I be mad as hell, the crazy. Me does appear to be mad as hell to me yeah by an arm, and I think sure way, I'm in one you're getting question about a night that happened to two years ago, so think about that night might be very insignificant to you and then surveys question. You about it and you're gone now. I dont really remember. It is the reason why I say that he appears to be mad at times you know, but but but controlled is there.

You see him at times where there's like a split second warehouse he'll smack the table these, like man, I'm tellin. You I've told you a hundred times. I didn't do this. I was. There. I don't know what else I can say and then second of all you'll see a couple times where he will raise his voice to the detectives ethically making the same argument. I dont know how to tell you this any differently than I was not there rio it. But what drives me nuts- and I have said this- I think, since we started looking into this case- is when you watch sees these tapes chuckie doesn't make any it. Damn sense right The detectives make no damn sense at all to only one. That's not in this crazy make believe world is is right. He sees it seemed like the only one that is is speaking with any law The call sense right so I mean just like with the detective, if you can't get chuckie-

to remember anything or if all of his deed, Sales are different and conflicting of evidence that you know that you have studied he's not sure guy, you I mean It makes zero logical sense to keep pursuing down that road, and I, like that, he says you know at some point he kind of gives in because he says you know every time he says I didn't do this. I wasn't there well Then, at some point the police are coming back with the argument. Well, while chuck was there and we know chuck, did this and you were with chuck and his is answers the same. Every time you ok, we'll find. Maybe chuck did do this made my shock was there I was knocked. I didn't do this and then you know he he's asked you see that part where the the one detective comes in and he tries to play the good cop. You know I have a son, your age and when I, when I look at you, I'm seeing my sons

I'm here to I'm here to help you get this off your chestnut, I'm here to help you talk about this. You know. Sometimes we do things that we don't mean to do right. for whatever reason, we don't know why we do them, you know, but he sticks with it. You know, ryan is sticks with it. He said I would have said, hey. Sorry, I'm sorry, I'm not a douche like your son, but I didn't do this. The the thing here is, you know, Not only did I not only only my innocent of the murder, I'm innocent of at having been there. And never was even there now the police, their stuck in this bad situation. Ok, you know it obvious. looks like ryan's in a bad situation in chalk, is in a bad situation, but the police unbeknownst to the two boys, the police. They need something as we pointed out earlier, you know that they don't have ought to go on other than this confession that they ve got from this chuck Eriksson

and then the person that, supposedly with him ryan ferguson, saying the exact opposite. I was not there. I m not guilty of anything. They need some one to somewhat back up chucks story. Okay, so who, who, who would also their story. It's a collaborative story at this you're, exactly right who Seeing you there that night, oh well, you know chuck points out that at some point have the murder, while we were leaving and going on on our way back to the bar at this intersection. We saw this guy that we knew, and his name is. His name is dallas mallory. We saw him. He was at a red light in a vehicle with two girls. I had a brief conversation with him at the intersection buff, war, the light turn green and he took off while they bring in, doubtless mallory. and he says I did not see those. I did not see each other I did not see ryan. I saw neither of those guys at an intersection and the

morning hours of november first, he goes on to say, I didn't see those guys on holloway night either. Well, the police keep coming back to him. And they say well, we know Dallas. We know that You saw them because chuck keep saying that he saw you that he had a conversation with you at some point dallas, the saying you don't, like you pointed out captain this is least two years ago. So Dallas is like ease confused he's like well how about this? If chuck says he saw me, then what was I wearing that night? Well, they go to chuck and they talked a shocking chuck says. Well, Dallas was dressed up for hollow wheat to go to the hollow wean parties. He was dressed up as a police officer and, of course, the the detectives go back, the dallas mallory and they say he says he saw you. You were dressed like

police officer and Alice Mallory says I was. I was wearing a police uniform that night. That was my character for the halloween parties. Then there I must if he says it, that's what I was wearing that I must have seen those guys at night. How would you know so now that they have somebody backing up. Chuckie story: their story. There combined efforts to create this elaborate story there on a charge. Lucky and then they will not go on trial to charge rhine ferguson, yeah and in. I think, let's cover that in tomorrow's episode. We knew we should talk about how this gets the trial talk about the trial itself, the things that they got right, that things have gone wrong and we This ends up getting us in the end via tonnes a diamond tomorrow. Until then check out, True crime garage dot com go to the store page. We got the tank tops for sale. We got the wii next, got the logo tees some beer mugs a bunch of different stuff check that out. Alright, we will,

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