In new orleans, twenty twelve bearskin chair, I drove to an address some one had given him that didn't exist ass. He stood in the park, lot where the address should have been. He was shot and killed. I'm You d umbra, join me for the newest season of counter clock. As I die, the motive behind bruces murder. a series of events that have never been fully investigated until now binge all fourteen episodes of counterfeit. Season. Five, wherever you listen to podcasts this spring, transform your outdoors

base into a regular gathering place for you and your loved ones with help from actually whether you're into wicker, teak or driftwood inspired furniture. We ve got the look you're going for adam accessories, like string lights and beverage tub to take your patio party from basic to curated and enjoy cosy evening vibes with a new fire bid, visit, Ashley, dot com or start by your local store and find affordable pricing and expert support today shop and save today only at ashley,

Well, go be true, gram garage wherever you are whatever you are doing, thanks where listening I'm your host naked with me, as always, is a man various stuteley turned down the pay me encrypted currency option. Here is

kept a K, a mr wet pants, it's good to be seen and good to see you thanks for listening thanks for town today we are still sipping on this delicious brew from foam brewers called pavement. Pavement is a double india. Pale EL smooth out with some juicy tropical fruit, which includes passion, mango and citrus garage grade for and a quarter bottle caps. Anna five. Thank you to everyone. For contributing to this week's beer fund in helping us out with this week's beer run. If you want help us out with sweet shows. Go to true crime, garage dot, com and click on the pint glass or the donate button, and while you're there Members of our mailing list already know this. If you follow us on twitter, you already know this, but true

I'm garage were added again. That's right, live and in person this April april, twenty ninth, which is a saturday we will be once again brood dog in the greater columbus area. It is the captain's beady bash that stands for birthday, birthday, bash tickets or on sale at true crime, garage dot com make sure you join us. We're gonna have a meat great do some human we're gonna talk, some crime and plus we're just gonna, hang out and has some delicious. bruce with all of you and hug This is all around your beers for the beer tasting that we are hosting far included in the ticket price of go and check out tickets. Now get your tickets before they're all gone because they will disappear before you know it.

Prime garage dhaka, yeah be the way the are you in beer run, and that is enough of the business. All right. Everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime the the but we knew that it was that rosy win, it just came out of the window. At that late at night and just and go throw herself the river kids. We notion wouldn't do that,

rosy tarpey, a sister and family never believed her. Drowning was accidental. Her mother discovered rosy missing just before six a m sunday, the window of her bedroom, open, screen removed now autopsy results reveal rosy was probably sexually assaulted before drowning in the Jordan river canal, where her body was discovered by a jogger. This this'll sebek in so many could be so that they take a baby from her from security and do such a role then do. What are we supposed to do? Keep our kids like tat, I windows, not that there is not. there's a window to keep my kids in being stolen and twisting over their following this up with additional statements.

In interviews of the victims and also witnesses, because it's becoming anymore larger investigation that maybe it was initially one the avenues under investigation reports that and was seen hanging around the apartment playground. A man who carried rosy home, saturday after she fell off the slide. She said that guy was sitting on one of the benches just watching the kid, and why would a guy just watch kids, if he didn't handle kit, he's probably seen who's going to hit next the kids are saved. You don't show they point this person who did this? Families who live here are now living in fear after the abduction, sexual assault and murder of six year old rose utopia, relatives and neighbours are now taking no chances with their own children.

I let my kids run around here and I want this guy cod, because I'm scared that it might happen to my son, my daughter, my other some current, Anton's. Daughter was nearly abducted about a year ago, so what kind of professionals you take with you to just sit outside with them? When I play making them come in when I go in this, not let them outside by themselves. Around eight p m authorities brought in a team of bloodhounds to try and tracked down where rosy went into the canal. Police suspect the child knew her abductor and right now there are a few suspects, but very little to go on a neighbor who live two floors above roses window reported hearing a scream yesterday morning and other neighbour say a strange man had brought the girl home from this.

Playground. Saturday night after she fell, I dont believe it somebody we now. Hopefully it's not because it being more devastated to no man roses. Death comes one week after this woman's daughter was abducted and rape from the same apartment complex. This woman says the property managers told her to keep it quiet now right now them our main concerns or security I have to leave here. I think should be better it either better security or more security, secure It is now everyone's concern, but for rosie's family the priority is getting the killer in custody. For somebody to do this, he had to have a sick mind every sick mind to do something like this to a six year. Old girl would be as a tragic drowning, is now being called a murder. Here's what we know little rosy was discovered missing just before six a m yesterday, they say her bedroom window was open and the screen removed a jogger discovered her body

in the Jordan river canal and an autopsy perform today indicates rosy had been sexually assaulted before drowning in the river the the the And we are still investigating the still unsolved homicide of six year old, rosie tapia. It's amazing to me captain that all of these years later, this case is still unsolved. But, as we said yesterday, there is some me on the bone. So let's go through some of the dna evidence. The suspects that are involved

here, as well as our offender profile. Now quick recap of the case we are victims, mother, who checks and on rosy at two thirty a m. Now she is, leaping in her bedroom with her for europe sister and four year old brother by five forty five m rosy was missing from her bed. This is discovered by her mother, the better window was open. This Green was removed and the girl is missing, the police were immediately notified and a search was initiated by a product only ten, a m. The victims body was located by a man who was out walking his dog dubai was floating in the surplus canal about a block from the apartment where she was taken. The autopsy feel that rosy had been sexually assaulted. This is

open an active case and the salt lake city police department is seeking formation in this case, one thing that found a little strange here, captain when reviewing the information back from ninety ninety five was the sole lake eddie was experiencing something that the rest of the country really was not so this year his crime rate and when we say so, his crimes were were fewer. Referring to things like murder, rape, burglaries, violent crimes, things like that, The serious crime rate fell nationally, four consecutive years in a row from eighteen. Ninety one to ninety. Ninety five, in fact, dropping too percent nation wide from ninety. Ninety four to ninety: ninety five, but the opposite of that was salt lake city. salt lake city at the time ranked third, among large cities in the: u s for an inquiry, and serious crime. In fact, the crime.

in salt lake city itself, climbed a whopping. Sixteen point: four percent So, while nation wide we are experiencing dropping race, salt lake city at this time was was experiencing. Something completely and rising rates and rising significantly bride two high sodium diet burst dive, the timeline of the investigation, and that would lead us to some subtle along the way days after the funeral service for little rosy tapioca. We have a barbie doll that was found laughed at her grave site. This barbie doll was collected by her mother, her mother, collected several items that were left at the grave site and it's not uncommon for things to be after an memorial to victims even to love ones that pass from natural causes and roses case. You had your too

gold things like pictures grievance cards candles stuffed animals, things of that nature that were left at the grave site, but one item in particular that was of particular interest to roses. Mother was this barbie doll that was left at the grave site. Now, a bunch of these items that were left at rosier grave cite the mother the family collected them and maintain these items for many years to come: barbie daul that was collected by Mother will actually become part of this investigation decades later, that's going to need us to two thousand and two captain in november of two thousand and two and unknown purse and left a rock on was the grave with a no written on it now we do not know what that note says, but we. What we do know is the salt city police department has publicly announced this event.

as well as that they are seeking the person they left, the rock that left the note the wrote, the no. They want to speak to this endeavour. now that was twenty years ago that that rock was left on the grave site We don't have any report indicating that that person ever came forward or that they were ever able to locate the individual or if they were able, if they were able to locate or identify the individual if they spoke to them. So we don't know what has come of that piece of information, but interesting to me. Is years later decades later they decide this barbie All that was left at the grave site is important to the investigation and back two thousand and two. They knew that this rock with the no left on it. Wasn't into the investigation and made that clear to the public, get some point seeking this individual, so is there,

connection between the barbie dawn. The rock is difficult to sit here and say we no know the information that was left and that no, but why does do initially, when I hear about this by radon, it being a big deal, we're gonna have tested, and all that stuff I go or it could be a nothing burger, because people stuff all the time, and is it possible that some may bring their daughter to leave some flowers at the grave site? The daughter has a toy with him and decides where I'm leave this toy for her, but but we do have with this rock in the snow. Is that obviously somebody's trying to communicate with their family or law enforcement through that grave site, so it a little bit more value or more. It puts it as a higher price, ability that maybe somebody was trying to make a statement by leaving some kind of doll at the gravesite. I kind of leapfrog

something on accident here in our time. I saw and want to make sure that I include this now before we get to far along job dumb ass, but there were as a lead, the way We're trying to follow up on early on in this investigation. and I want to make sure that we include this captain because we don't know if this information could be paired with something else in the time line or a suspect in this timeline. So the lead that they were working on early in the investigation was what they were for. Referring hu as an elusive truck? This was a truck. they were trying to find. They were trying to identify this truck, trying to find the owner of this vehicle. This elusive truck We don't get much in the way of a description other than something that could be a very key identifier on the truck was the ok, mountain fuel logo on it, and this

was spotted by multiple individuals in the heartland apartments. Complex way, Rosy lived, mountain fuel records indicate no employ ye, visited the complex in days prior to roses, death and the truck is described as old, so the active have come forward and they said we're. Looking for this truck is described an odour model truck, we ve checked the records of mountain fuel. They have no employees in the area in the days surrounding the murder. We think that maybe this view who had been sold at one point, and somebody else's now driving this truck around so back to a timeline. This will take us up to two thousand and twelve and we are getting this information from jensen, private investigations, dot com, they have a brief, article on their that states that just day

after an arrest was made in a number of murder case. Fortunately, this was the murder of sierra new bold. This arrest led to the topic of family wonder if the man accused of murdering sierra, if this could possibly linked to their daughters, murder. They took place ten years prior, they d. Sales of this are eerily similar, so In both cases we have an abduction and then a murder when can hearing rosy tarpey case to sierra new bolts case, both girls were can from their homes both sexually assaulted and then drown in a jordan canal. It strange but also super creepy. When these cases sound, it sounds like the same case, distant different victims, name, which about the surplus canal, where rosy tommy was found. Well on fourchan,

Lee this other girl who was similar and age, similar victim type too rosy, unfortunately, sperience a very similar situation. we have seen a new bold, where the perpetrator of that kind entered the home and accepted the homes a sliding glass door, and then, of course, we have rosier case where the perpetrator came in through the window. It appears likely that the offender and roses case exiting the home the same way that they entered the home. I would like to get a little bit their confirmation on that, because I think when we talk a basement apartment captain. You can start to see complexities right trying to remove a child or remove a victim in that manner. Right now you ve got to climb back up in and get through that window with your victim. people have wondered if there might be to persons involved in roses case. That would suit

We make it easier to transport the victor yeah easier to transport, the victim, but also easier to maintain can all of the victim or the man that was arrested. Another case was terry black. He was arrested for multiple crimes, but one of them was the murder of sierra new, bold and Special investigator jason Jensen interviewed here, goes on to tell us a little bit about black sea, that they looked into blacks, criminal record, which spans throughout for states hence in investigations was able to determine that. Yes, in fact, this terry black was living in the state of utah when rosy was killed. To say that he was a salt lake county resident at that time and they were, but be clear here saying so you can't rule him in you can't just automatically rule him in, but you all

cannot rule him out and roses case until we have some more information yeah, because one we can test the dna if we have a full sample size of that deal, a, but also this could be a serial killer with this emma like we said that crimes are identical with two different victim name Sadly, in this same article here, captain we have llewellyn tapioca roses. Mother, who has been up front and centre, has been the face of this investigation since day, one and kudos to her for reminding everybody about this case. Because, again, I didn't see a great deal of cut age locally, when this first case broke and really it wasn't until these Organization stepped in that you start to see all of stories coming out in it now goes on come on national story and today, twenty twenty three.

We have a ton of information and a ton of stories about roses case on the internet. Thanks to the help of these other entity, is now Louise tapioca in this article is quoted saying I'm just hoping I find out before I go she's referencing finding out who killed her daughter and she I will be up in Heaven with her, but I still won't know who took her. But now this is go and bring us to two thousand and eighteen, and I'm going to read some portions of this article that came out. This is and we get informed about this barbie doll that was left Years ago, at little the top he grave site this is from two thousand and eighteen people magazine the head, could a barbie don't hold the clue to solving a twenty three year old, cold case

to say the mother of a murdered child discovered a barbie door at her grave site twenty three years ago and kept it in a glass case. been more than twenty years. Since six year, old rosy copy was kidnapped from her salt lake city, home assaulted and killed her body was found in a canal off of the Jordan river several hours after her disappearance now one in three years later. The utah cold case coalition is asking the public for any tips related to a barbie doll which was found on top of the girls grave shortly does she died in ninety? Ninety five quote: roses: mother went back were grave regularly. She went back and found this all their, which was a bit unusual and kept it in a glass case this whole time in september of two thousand and seventeen. We should point out here that

Is you talk cold case coalition? Is not a law enforcement entity? Ok, they are victim advocates. They sister victims families in trying to further the investigations, keep the investigations and spotlight in the media and help raise money and resources to possibly finally solve some of these cases, So this is where you see from me, a standpoint anyway. This case take a one hundred and eighty degree turn from where there's not a whole lot being reported on roses case until you get Hence in investigations until you get the you talk, case coalition involved and dave really help to climb to the mountain tops and keep shouting and shouting and shouting from the mountain tops about this case since that about. We also all know how it works when there's a case, take the bride favour case guy walks into a bar. He seen on camp,

never seen on camera leaving the bar. Is he inside, as he outside side like a little creepy factor that sparks are human interest So I think in this case, when you start gone well, there's this creepy and that returned her home return. the home the day that she was kidnapped. That's that kind of sparks your interest and then, when you find out that there's this barbie doll that might have some significance and then can start picture in your minds. I this creepy barbie doll, that's found at the grave site. I think it really sparks are an interest to go out. I want to know more about this case so in september, two thousand and seventeen, the coalition approach, the salt lake city police department with that barbados, and they ask them to test it for dna, but unfortunately they say they basically did not get a response, or we can assume they at least did not get the response that they want

since then the coalition decided to move forward on testing the doll without assistance from law enforcement, They go on to say that there will be two phases in the text. The first phase extracts the dna that their hoping to find and the second, which is the more costly portion, identifies the dna so this article comes out in two thousand and eighteen. So what They say last year there were firing to two thousand and seventeen. They say that the group was able to to get the dna extracted from the doll which did include mail dna. The group believe is that the daul known as a pretty hearts barbie could be a valuable clue in case and they are hoping some one will come forward with any information on who may

have left it. There quote, we thought we'd, give the public a chance to say I left that their or hey, that's, my all. It went missing now. I know where it is so what they're saying here captain is they ve taken on this without the assistance of law enforcement? It's a too. this process in two thousand and eighteen they're saying we ve already paid for phase one face too, is the much more costly, much more expensive part of the investigation right. We're making an announcement publicly, this came out and people magazine it was on the internet. It was, it was every newspaper that you can think of and there, sir, we just want somebody had come forward. Let us know if you left the barbie doll there, because if some comes forward and we're like we can prove They had nothing to do with the case we can move on and we don't have the waste resource is in money on ice defying, who left it there what's interesting

me. Captain was the way that this barbie doll Described it was described as used, ok. So I wanted to know what used meant right, I'm assuming its not in its packaging law. My toys, all my toys grown up were used, but take a step further than I was told by somebody very close to the case. The its described is used because it was clear that, was not only not in its packaging. This was about beat all that was likely sold the year prior to her murder and had obvious signs of wear and tear that it was played with this could be looked at as a creep factor could be looked at. simply as may be, a child did this, but their work some chew marks on the feet of the barbie doll yeah, I think,

lie this to me. This points to the idea that a child is there, their parents, her shown their condolences, and then the child leaves the bar b unlocked. Maybe the child doesn't remember, leaving the barbie, maybe the parents don't remember the child in the bar, as said they were able to determine, they were able to decide to extract some oil, dna or dna that included, may dna from the doll. Now. What we do know is we sit here. five years later after this article came out five years after asked someone to come forward to have left the doll or no, who left the doll and nobody's come forward. So that means one of three there there's only three possible outcomes. What that a the person that lead the doll, is completely innocent and just never heard the public cry,

for information right be, the person is who left wants to remain anonymous for any number of reasons. out of those reasons, I would say, would be suspicious or three you mean see keep in mind. The store was left in ninety. Ninety five people think you're a genius given the victims age. It wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that a friend or a loved one, or even just somebody being sympathetic from afar from watching on tv or from the abraham. Maybe Another young person closer age too. Rosy left the doll there and now fast, two two thousand and eighteen, although years later they were just so young, they don't recall, leaving the barbie door at the grave site right so to me. There's only three reasons why somebody wouldn't come forward. One of those one of those is suspicious

the the The. I am doing. Diane ratio and I'm jessica, saint clair and we're the host of the deep died todd cat. No just you and I spend every week talking about mother products. We love grieve, it's basically of girls, night weird, you don't even have to wear pants and honestly we're having a lot of fun doing. We hope you join us on the deep die, listened to the deep diamonds teacher, apple podcast or wherever you're listening it is now support for this programme comes from arkansas, escape to natural state.

Outdoor adventures to indoor attractions in just a few miles or a few minutes near it all, but faraway planted trip at arkansas dot com so many options for toilet paper quintuple apply. This role is titanium enforced. This one is made from elderly trees. Is that good, just grab angel soft, it's simple, soft and strong, and for any budget angels. I thought and strong simple this spring transform you outdoor space in.

a regular gathering place for you and your loved ones with help from actually whether you're into wicker, teak or driftwood inspired furniture. We ve got the look you're going for adam accessories, like string lights and beverage, touch to take your patio party from basic to curated and enjoy cosy evening vibes with a new fire bid, visit, ashley dot com or stop by your local store and find affordable pricing and expert support today shop and save today only at ashley All right. We are back things for joining us, cheers everybody cheers simply sippy on your cup luck. I hate it pooh on the parade, but I'm not so concerned with this.

Be door as I am concerned with this man that brains her rosy back to the apartment after she has an accident on the playground. Yes quotes accident on the playground got kicked in the back, because there is the other side of that debate. That had never happened, that that the person brought rosy back, but she was not hurt. Wasn't crying was not need of assistance in this person might have just been looking for some time. Information to to later use, while because in it Lee everybody in the apartment. Complex goes, we know who this guy is. he doesn't have any kids, he sits at the park. He plays guitar for the kids, he's kind of a strange weirdo. So if he's at the park multiple times than probably pretty likely, that, he knows who rosy is? It's probably pretty likely. He knows where her apartment is, but it's very strange to be it a guy plain guitar at the part for kids.

and watching kids, when you don't have any of your own. So here this be comes a big problem for the investigation and from the salt lake city police departments, investigation from that side. early on in the investigation, they said that they had identified this man and for clarity purposes, we're gonna call this man, the good samaritan right, the guy that that's what he's been referred to in multiple stories. The guy that brought rose home to her apartment. That night said that she was her on the playground. They say that they identified him as a man who had a son. There was a divorce so he had his son part time right and he played guitar at the play. around and often his son was there with him so You have, and you heard it in our sound clip, leading into today's story telling of the case that people were suspicion. Of people in the park or people at the plague.

Why would a man be sitting thereby himself? Why would he be there without a child flicking flaky pino people were suspicious, that and rightfully so. Well, police say we moved on from good samaritan, because we identified him as a man who I believe it was a truck driver or worked at a town. for a portion of his schedule. He's a divorce say with his with Son has his son part time lives in the apartment, complex and was known, the guitar at the playground. By way based off of his work. Records they show that he was out of town win. Rosy was abducted and killed the problem with then becomes guitar man and the good samaritan kay. Be the same person with again. We don't have the details Did he leave on attracting round at midnight?

right, and so that we know that, from from the time here that she was abducted if you want to have been around, but he could have been able to bring her back to the apartment. Earlier that day, I, like you, said I think it's it's very unclear if this good samaritan and this this a divorcee truck However, if they're the same person right is guitar man in the good samaritan, the same person, there have been people that have come forward and said: no, we, HU, the guitar guy, is just like the police. It says, and we saying that's not the same person, so there In retrospect they go back and they look and unfortunately, even though they said they were able to move on from the good samaritan. Very much like a case that we very recently were viewed the

no documents backing any of that up. They can't say who spoke to this man. There's no documents backing it up, showing them that they positively identified the good samaritan man, so many are pointing out a problem with that, having moved on from the good samaritan too quickly that maybe maybe they misidentified him and that those individuals are not one and the same, but what we do have is rosy sister answered the door and talk to this man, the price ms he's wearing a hat he's wearing glasses, is almost like incognito and then, when they release a sketch of this individual, he looks like an eel in human from Men in black right right, well difficult to say he could be an alien in disguise or he could be the man in black right. It's a it's a men in black.

type situation. The guy did description is basically take a face and put back on glasses and had on it, and that's your your sketch that you get in the face before we move on to far from the barbie doll, though captain I do want to point out that the little too obsessed with dolls of the things that they paid for again, nobody ever came forward taking credit for leaving the barbie doll, we should point out a couple of things here: the coalition the cold coalition has pointed out saying that They have received numerous calls about. Barbie dolls left a grave sites for other murdered girls colluding some in other states, and they go to say that they don't know if there is any possible link between any of the cases, but they do say that I'm frames we ve been contacted on, are fairly close together, although indifferent states could it be the same person, I dont know

be a certain type of predator. I dont know could at all. So be totally innocent possible. While now and think about true detective, the one sees in their words, these handmade woven dolls that were given to these victims. So when they go to investigate these murder crimes and they go look through the rooms of the victims, they find these handmade dolls to me that that would be a link, but a barbie dollar. Such common in item, allow these people. They are shown respect to these victims by leaving flowers or just visiting the grave site. If they have a child with them. I can t see a child gone while I'm gonna Donny my doll- and I can also see that being a situation with roses case where the parent might not

I've even known that their daughter did that, and I look I pretty good memories of things. I've done, and you think that this should also be a memory that would stick out to you goin to go visit, a grave when you're a little kid. But I have friends of mine that can't remember shit from when they're a kid. In two thousand and nineteen, the utah cold case coalition released a sketch of a possible suspect in the rosie tapia murder. According to a press release, the sketch is based on a neighbor's records. Should the neighbour lived in the same apartment complex where these six year old lived when she was abducted and murdered. The neighbour claims they he was up early saw a teenager coming from the same direction as the canal, where she was later found at first, as

Captain pointed out yesterday, this neighbour thought that the team was wearing pants of two different colors, but then realize the pants were wet. This is interesting. This is the lead in the sketch that we talked about yesterday? This is the one that comes out, but it doesn't come out until two thousand and nineteen we're how some of these reports state that this neighbour, you're sitting here, one will. Why would this individual wait so long to tell anybody about this. This neighbour, and I dont know if it's a sheer he, but they claim that they did give this formation to the salt lake city, police department back and nineteen five, but there was little to no follow up on it at all. The witness described this teenager as Sixteen to seventeen year old boy, who is hispanic with a slight build and a narrow face with high cheekbones

as that he was seen wearing denham genes, a white shirt and a medium length gold chain bala now what's interesting, is that police get this sketch And they hold onto it for a period of time believe it was like two months the reason why this sketches so important. I've looked at this income, harrison to the good samaritan sketch the man returned rosy right, there's, not the goods. and sketch is not descriptive enough really to compare it. Anything I've heard in red people say that the sketches look like they could be the same person. Frankly I mean I don't It's you can compare anything to the good samaritan sketch now because he looks like an undercover alien, but now I think this is actually the the biggest best lead that we have, and it sucks

it took so long to one compile the sketch and then to release the sketch, because again, I'm gonna go back to the initial investigation. This becomes very difficult for law enforcement because you have basically a small town in this apartment, complex. So you would see a lotta individuals so too Jog your memory ngo, oh yeah, there was a teenage boy that would walk round the complex to draw jog your men memory, a ten fifteen years later to try to identify Somebody that you, my I seen a few times that of this sketch was released two weeks after the murders. I think you know a lot of people coming forward insane- or that looks like key or that looks like steve or that looks like whoever it so difficult, and we talk about this before we ve talked aplenty did of detectives that say time as every we bring it up all the time. Time is the killer time as the killer of evidence. Time is the killer

of solving these cases and the detectives will tell you if early on in the investigation had we just spoke to this person, I think the outcome would have been different. Had we just found, this piece of the puzzle early in the investigation, instead of all these years later, I think that the outcome would be different I agree with you here captain. I think that this is that piece of the puzzle. This is that person that had they just add this information and maybe they did and this person is saying that I gave this information- we don't know it's difficult to say we can only base it off of the reports we are seeing, but had they had information back and nineteen. The five, maybe we're not sitting here talking about an unsolved homicide and the reason why state that is because this thousand and nineteen sketch of wet pants man may be. The most and best tipp. That day got all along and this Gonna be the best way of crowd sourcing this case, so there

some back story that comes along with this composite sketch, and that is that, when the complete sketch was released by the police man who is reported. His name is dan contacts, the police department and says that sketch looks similar to a friend of mine, he was a friend of mine back and ninety ninety five, and he still somebody that I stay in touch with to this day right now. Longer close, but we back and ninety five- and he said what's even more strange about these sketch. Is that don't undone price? to it being released, his friend had called him and said: hey. I heard that putting together a sketch of somebody that they think as a suspect in the rosy tarpey a case and this day- individual says: yes, that's what I've heard as well, and the friend of

and says to Dan. Wouldn't it be funny if the sketch looks like one of us well, I'm sure they probably shared a laugh and it seems like a dumb statement. I dont know why any of that would be funny when we're talking about the murder six year old, but right dan. Calls police and says: look my friend called me before the sketch came out. and said: wouldn't it be funny if it looks like one of us now the sketch comes out. I think it looks like my friend right the wonder be so hilarious. Well, because this I'm guessing he'd invite it to be too funny when it does come and it looks like him. There is some reports out there that This individual states that I see the sketch it does not look like me in that person's opinion. This person, to their credit, did agree. He too, a dna swab and oh did the Dan individual agreed to do swab, I know

the unnamed individual, the friend that they did in fact collect His dna one would think that we have, or one is I've seen report- is that that rosy Please put up some kind of struggle, and so they believe that they could get some deal from underneath her fingernails I've referenced once or twice that we spoke to somebody very close to the case. And I was not aware at the time when speaking to this individual- that this unnamed person, the friend of Dan, it had a well pants. What's the guy that could be mr wet pants, possibly could be mr weapon I did not know that this friend of Dan had agreed to a dna, swap the added. see that reported. But this is one of those weird scenarios where you are actually able to talk to individual. That's really close to this case, so some other stuff that you're putting out in this

So I'm here for the first time as well. So what Ben. Is this going to go through our interaction together, because I did not no this in advance. My reaction to him telling me this information was, I said, look I've. viewed- I'm no detective but reviewed a lot of homicide cases here in the garage with the captain and it's my experience that guilty people don't so willingly offer up their dna and said to me: that's exactly right, nick, but keep in mind when he offered up his dna. There was a bit question mark out there whether dna existed as evidence in this case at all bright and fact, there was police on record more than one occasion stating that they did not have dna. So I said to him, either that some great strategy by the police

not release that they have dna or there's something we with the dna evidence well like we said. One of the destroyers of evidence is but also water Why you see some these cases? Even if there are these brutal murders, but the victim is and water it it becomes way more difficult for law enforcement to put together the pieces of the puzzle solve the case. Now, let's stay in the year of two thousand and nineteen here, as we continue on our timeline, because this directly impacts. What we were just talking about in two thousand and nineteen new details about the case released by the salt lake city police department? But this was done in an episode by investing and discovery network the policies on on case, our policies on policies on on the case, with policies on an thee,

sewed about rosy tarpey, as murder was tied old she's gone for the fur time and roses case the case, on national on on a big national scale here before and even what the national scale that it hit, and two thousand and eighteen and I want to point out all the good work that the jensen investigations have done and the key case coalition, because there, the entities that made this a nash story when this case did not get a whole lot of local media coverage. They choose that one hundred and eighty degrees once they stepped in so and they ve work directly with, top your family on this case, all allow dismiss the power of palestine. Don't dismissed the power of these victim mavericks advocacy programmes, these non often organizations that exist. What what shocking, too rosy

mother when she watched the policies on case the topic of family was participate, in the making of that episode, but when she watched it, she for the very first time, says that she learned that they did. dna, and her daughters case says quote. I did not know that they had dna from her fingernails. I asked them a long time ago. If they had dna from her fingernails- and they told me they didn't have any end quote you think you're being cooperative with this production company, you would think that will, first of all, you think one we're going to disclose all the information to do before we release it to the public, but also, maybe that we're going to let you watch watch it before it comes out. Let you watch the documentary early before the information comes out to the public, the if you're, going to play the numbers here. The numbers would tell you this

statistics would tell you that the overwhelming majority of the time, this kind of offender is no the family- knows the family or knows the victim right. My suspicion here is if, in fact, they had good dna evidence and that's what I think we need to hone in on here in a second, if, in fact, they had good dna evidence. If there's a chance that the thought that the perpetrator may be known to the family they may have withheld this information from the family, as well as part of their investigation, right, which woods does makes since, according to police statements on the policies on episode, salt lake city police, said that they have have more than sixty samples from different persons. In this case now It's also been reported that they could not enter or compare the dna the I found an roses case to do

nay on codes, that it did not meet the criteria for being able to upload it or compare it to the quota. most likely meaning it does. It have enough markers correct, which point, I was gonna make that I had a little brain for earlier. I heard it smells wherever I witness saying that this, MR wet pants, is a late teenager. This is a horrific crime. This is the type of crime that, even if this is his first crime that this is probably a murderer. That's going to continue on the path of vienna horrific murderer, so you would think at some point he would either get caught for this or, like you said get caught in a home and then get charged with I can in entering, but it all depends on

where he was arrested. Did they collect dna and, like you said, of theirs, on of markers and uk, became pair that dna, but Oh, I wouldn't surprise me of this individual The prisoner has been in prison for another crime or attempting another crime like this So here's what I can tell you, here's what I've learned very resell it to us, colonel the dna stuff. Let's set that aside for a minute, so we know that the dna was collected from the friend of Dan Dan, not only tells police this guy, my old friend resembles the sketch a year now putting out, but he also said this weird statement to me among so before the sketch came out. Wouldn't it be funny if it look like one of us now we have this situation Are we learn a little bit about this friend from Dan

now dad is very important and could be key to this investigation for a couple reasons. One. Saying that my friend do. was young, of course, roughly seventeen eighteen issue at say around the time of roses martyr his friend would have been sixteen at the time, so that fits with sketch of wet pants man, who he also day saying this man looks like dan at one. I'm dated Amelia. Older daughter, the eighteen year old daughter that was watching the kids that night and as the and had talked about on our last episode, ex boyfriend dan was an ex boyfriend, he was somebody who had gone. To the topic, apartment, on more than one occasion to meet with his girl when a and when he did, he would do that via

that same window, that the offender came in and abducted, rosie tapia, but even gets more deep, gets more deep because says his friend was aware that he would use this window, to climb in and out of the top you home right. This guy has intimate knowledge of the crime scene, intimate knowledge of the family. He looks like the sketch and it's been pointed out to me by the person- closely investigation that this individual may have only given his dna swab willingly voluntarily, because he, I have been led to believe or was under the assumption at the time that they didn't have dna evidence and rosy tapajos case or look maybe also aware that they do have dna, but that this partial, and so maybe he

Is why these narcissists? That's? Ok, what's try your luck with this partial dna, not every criminal, so smart, either most of the time that that is the opposite. Maybe he just felt pressured enough that he submitted the dna. To get them off of his back and cross his fingers and hope that he would get lucky. What's Forgot, though, is now we sit here a couple years later in where it sits. Where the case sits. Is there is a one hunter thousand dollar reward in the rosy tarpey a case that money is not meant for a witness to come forward after all these years, who saw something and just forgot. It didn't in decided not to come forward when you put together a substantial reward like that. That tells me that the people putting together the reward believe that there are other people than are aware of what this person did. This man, It is a nudge. This money is encouragement.

To turn on that individual that you may have worked been protecting out of fear for all of these years, although I would bet money if this deuce bag is saying things to his friend dan o or would be funny if we looked like the sketch and dan is obviously close to the victim in, in the sense that he dated the older sibling. So he knows the family So if he's making weird statements to somebody that knows the family knows a little bit about. The investigation, probably knows a little bit about the crime. What other weird comments is? Has he made to other individuals may be at a bar when he gets drunk, maybe party. What other weird statements has he made to other people that warrant connected to the family and work connected to the crime?

So as far as the dna goes, what we ve been told where the kiss case sits now is the dna collected from the victim is being sent off for genealogy detection work that the deal in a collected from the barbie doll is being and off by the private entity for genealogy detection work, those days, It's came out a while ago. So if there's been movement or advancement in and guess what I have personal experience I can tell you those are not fast investigations. The genealogy stuff can take six weeks six months. Eighteen months two years? It can be a long and difficult process and you're not all he's, guaranteed results so we'd all exactly where that stands other than we ve been told. It's been sent off in both cases by two different entities

yeah or sometimes they get results back that then take more legwork to connect the dots. The thing is with the dna: that's collect from the victim, and we ve seen this in plenty of other cases too. Captain you can you they use those if it does not have enough markers to fit the criteria for code. Is it likely has enough markers that you can rule some people, while from those sixty that you ve collected- and you can keep some people in, but you can't connect of Lee linked to one individual. Now we talked- How early on how there were statements, by police that, yes, the fbi's working to put together a profile on the offender, but then they ve never made that profile if it exists public. So in those cases when able- and I think we can hear captain. I like to do what some people think is very arrogant of me, but guess what you got

get your own show, and you can do what you want on your show. This is our show, so I got fifty percent of the saying wow I like to put together our own paquette that I like to put together. Our own profile here, for you, The garage and arming use some expert in for me sure to piece that together I started off with the lesser of the experts that will be yours truly, the colonel now It's been my experience in the cases that we reviewed, that are simple are too rosy case. We are usually talking about a younger offender and it's not terribly uncommon. In fact, the numbers would suggest that it is more common the offender in this type of case, a similar or the same ethnic background as the victim so what I'm saying here is when you can see and review the

case on a map. The first thing that jumps off the page is the person the abducted, killed and placed the body and left the body in that canal did not need any means of transportation other than their own two legs to commit this cry. Sometimes that's an index. Or that your offender is either too young to drive or of a younger age and does not possess a vehicle of their own Now, while we don't have the fbi profile to talk about, we do have a clinical psychologists, Steve crane, who evaluates sex offenders, for the utah state prison system and back nineteen ninety five he gave the following information, saying that the killer is a quote very impulsive person, one who does the first that comes into his head without thinking of the consequences right. The statement

aren't. You say most pedophiles are smooth operators who control their environment to gain access to children. He may marry a single mother to get at her kids or be friend children at a playground. Roses killer is different from this, can't even initiate a conversation he's problem. A withdrawn alone or type of person. This was real cowardly act so you're my profile. Now I spent hours and hours on my profile I would like to continue along with some information from kenneth landings book, and we know that Kenneth landing was involved. He was the special and from the fbi that was involved early on in this investigation- and I think this gives us a possibly more complete profile picture of our offender from

Page eighty four of his book love bombs in molesters. He states that most child molesters do not of dock their victims and most offenders who do a duck their victims do not kill them. Statistics bear this out, then, if you fast for two page on fourteen kenneth lanning learn from bs. You research that the primary, but not the only reason some child molesters use violence and abduction to control their victims. Was it: they lacked the interpersonal skills to do otherwise. The put rather simply here, captain please do what land stating after his years of expertise in his years. In in working on these types of crimes as the the persons that abduct and kill tippit We are doing this because they do not groom. They do not have the ability to groom and victimize the victim of period a time. There's

be that lacks those skills. What's interest being is cross referencing, that, with what steve Kramer the clinical psychologist for utah prison system back and ninety five said that this killer, very impulsive person. He does the first thing that comes into his head. Without thinking of the consequences. To me. This all goes in line with our composite sketch of pants man who was described as sixteen seventeen and goes along with experiences that we ve seen when reviewing these cases here on crime garage that this type of case fits the profile. of a younger offender were of ale oh go, offender likely lived in the camp. Acts are very near the complex and likely didn't possess the ability to draw I a vehicle legally or have an actual vehicle. We're not. making the stuff up. Look at the close proximity from

The victim was found to where she was abducted back and ninety ninety five year, the profile I work. On four hours, if not days, was this individual, the giant pieces yet, and I'm convinced I there's a gut feeling a mind that that this horrible, The vigil has made weird comments about this case, such as I might look like the sketch one that be funny. Those are weird comments, so if you have heard somebody that has made comments about this case turn their name into law enforcement and let them do the due diligence to rule. in or out, this individual was picked up for a burglary or something else shortly after ninety five, I think what we probably dealing with here, like you, said captain somebody knows something: that's one hundred percent because a person they carry out this level of violence, a person that carries

this level of victimization is incapable. of controlling themselves. They will have an victimize in the future, lies equally in domestic situations They will add violent bring violence into their home against their spouse, their children, other loved ones. So someone out, there very likely knows something. Remember there is a real for up to one hundred thousand dollars in rosy tapioca case someone, somewhere has information that can help solve this. Homicide no fact is insignificant, no details to small. If you have any information, please call three eight five to five, eight three, three one three that number answered by representatives of the family and not law enforcement, or you the email who killed rosy at gmail dot com again, this is monitored.

By family representatives, the the What are you guys so much for joining us here in the garage, and this would be a great example of a case that could be shared- social media to spread the word, get people talking, and maybe we can make it France colonel! Do we having recommended reading for the beautiful listen we do, captain in very fittingly, so are recommended. Reading for this week is lou. And John Bernay, a legendary longmans quest to solve a child beauty. Queens murder by john Wesley anderson

John Wesley Anderson himself is a former homicide. Detective turned author after retiring from a thirty year law enforcement career, and he was good friends with lou smite and this boy is about loose myths, investigation into the still surprise they so still unsolved. Homicide of little john beneath ramsay make sure you check out loo and john bernay by John west the anderson you can find that recommendation and many more on our recommended page on our way. site, true crime, garage dot and if you want to join us, live make sure you get a ticket at true chrome, garage, dot, com, click on the law, Events link and that's how you can get a ticket hope to see you there and until next week, pig

would be kind and don't let this spring transform you're out

your space into a regular gathering place for you in your loved ones, with help from actually whether you're into wicker, teak or driftwood inspired furniture. We ve got the look you're going for adam accessories, like string lights and beverage tabs to take your patio party from basic to curated and enjoy cosy evening vibes with a new fire bid, visit, ashley dot com or start by your local store and find affordable pricing and expert support today. Shop and save today only at ashley.