In new orleans, twenty twelve bruce catch. Here I drove to an address some one had given him that didn't exist ass. He stood in the park, What were the address should have been? He was shot and killed. I'm You d umbra, join me for the newest season of counter clock. As I die the motive behind bruces murder a series of events that have never been fully investigated until now binge all fourteen episodes of or clock season, five, wherever you listen to pod, casts asia. It connects an ode to part casts connect the alarm J the part cast. You stream connect this news, ten more minutes to dream, connect a shower lather up with the news sports talk, comedians or movie reviews connect with that three. our philosophy, show change the drive into work and trap. So slow connected dishes, two voices they glow thing. you too, the geniuses of spoken audio,

and the stories change your perspective connecting changes, everything agency I, The. I welcome the true gram garage. Where view are whatever you are doing, things were listening, I'm your hosts, nick and with me. As always, is

They told me before I went on vacation that he was changing the locks on the garage he is. The cap I am also the man that called the cops on you for breaking and entering, but that did may do so. But to be seen- and it's good to see you thanks for listing thanks for town a friend, today we are drinking secret stairs by trillion. Brewing company garage, great poor and a half bottle caps out of five secret stairs is a step that is bold and balanced, and, unlike most out it's not too syrupy, not too sweet. This fine beer was brought to us by you in these five members of the garage crew. First up from china Certainly your two great people with great taste and beer and true grandpa gas. Obviously a big thank you, Stephanie and met a resident parts unknown. We have Kristen she likes to listen to the show why she jogs around part. From next week.

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the business, that's right! Everybody gather round grab a chair grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime. This case begins with a teenager who goes missing several weeks later in september Nineteen, seventy two a body discovered a top a cliff high above them

and in quarry field new jersey. Later it was determined. This was the body of the missing team genetically bomber, along with the body. It was that call related items were recovered from the area. Rumour said that she had been resting on a makeshift alter in the woods. The called light items were rumour to have been a called symbols carved from branches and locked the door. Traitor perpetrators of this murder are said to have left the teens body posed with the crude symbolic artifacts surrounding the body. The only thing missing from the young girl was a gold cross did she always wore around her neck. These story would certainly point towards a possible ritualistic murder committed by satanist or deadly coven of witches,

weeks after the body was found, local newspapers published articles that fuelled speculation and scared the locals with headlines like called symbols, reportedly surrounded the body and witchcraft implicate in the palm of murder. These articles, told us that living inside this quiet, conservative community was a group of blood thirsty satanist there the story banished from the local newspapers, the police releasing information? Some say the police quit working. The case so say they didn't want to work the case That's family wanted and clearly deserved answers, but would they get in did Please have any suspects, and if so Why hold back so much information information? They could lead to a possible resting conviction. Was there a cover up,

While we know this could be like so many other murders that happened in communities back then, where the cops figured out pretty quickly, who did, but in the end since of reliable forensics. They simply could not. build a solid case against the offender reopen the case went cold Years later, the story became local folklore, and the rumours of never quite the murder of, the problem is very bizarre and still and saw this cases. known to most outside the state of new jersey. Could the unsolved doctrine and murder of this teenage girl be the result of a police cover up is jeanette case one first examples of satanic panic, Where was Jeanette one of the first victims of ritual occult murder, in suburban america. This is the case of

devils, tee september, nineteen, nineteen, seventy two springfield new jersey. and around eleven a m forty four year old police officer, don shrewd he's risk. Turning to a strange police call, he is on his way to the brand new gardens apartment complex, wilson, road, the strange They came in the apartment. Building superintendent had found what was port it to be a severed human arm. This was found, lying in the grass near some bushes right by one of several entrances to the building. This was not officer on the first day on the job, and he was trying to figure out what to expect to see.

When arriving on the sea policy arm dawn and the other officers had responded to several calls, not only from this apartment complex but from the same superintendent they had made. This call see a group of ten boys. It lived in the apartments while these kids suck. and they decided for some reason to pick on the super intended and they always played pranks on this poor woman, Actually won, repeat prank that they seemed to enjoy was to take trash bags full of rubbish and cut the bags open, and then they would dump the trash off. over the lawn. And then the lady would have to clean up their mess real dick noses as he got closer to the apart. Officer don thought: well, you know here we go again this time the boys had stepped up their game and he was gonna have to

give them a stern talking to, because it appears this time the boys wear away like air, the poor, lady, the death. They stepped up their game by Severin arm or leaving something that would scare the woman into believing should solace ever doc. You know he might have to use the strong arm of the law to put some fear in these boys, maybe like a mannequin with us and catch up. They need to stop picking on this woman. Well, anyway, the springfield police they ve got better things to do than to continually respond. Calls at this apartment building so officer he pulled up to the building and got out of his car. He approached the building looking for the superintend, but before he could locate her, he spot the item they had fuelled the police car, they're lying in the grass was a forearm officer. Don could emerge we see this was not the of a mannequin like he had expected to see, not a half arm. He saw the finger nails, he could tell that arm had been

in the elements for quite some time, the flesh appeared to be most leathery income maroon in color don got out his camera and took several pictures of the fine then he called into the station telling them you better get some detectives out. Here. We have human arm lying in the grass, and it's no joke som, assuming this armed and get there by these prank stirs correct. Well, that's the weird thing captain, because that is the first thing that jumps in my mind. How did this arm get here lying in the grass this building in I know that they ever truly answered this. If you look up like little short snippets about this case, they will tell you that a deal ugh had somehow found the arm in and brought it to this location, leaving it there in the grass. I don't know They fully explained that the police anyway and their investigation gather,

She was the lady that made the initial call that her dog was very little like a small dog yeah. But what they found out later was that there was a dalmatian. Was owned by somebody on the property and that the defamation, what? rome, this area all the time, so they can assume that that's how the arm got there, yet they start knocking on doors of the tenants. It lived in the building just asking questions what people doing that morning and such in, like you said that I'll was a large dog and the one lady says I let my out this morning and he just runs wild and then I'd, let him in whenever he's done. Whenever he comes back, and so I think they kind of just put two and two together and came to the conclusion that maybe the dog had gone off into the wood or in some other location, bringing it back to the apartment complex there a strange thing than that occurs. Early on in this police call is once

detectives and some other officers get there. It's not a long time that their there before one of the tec detective spoke up and says: hey. I think this could be the arm of jeanette. The you know which seems like a very strange thing, but we have to keep in mind we're talking about nineteen, seventy two in springfield new jersey and for my understanding it's not a huge task You know, there's not a ton of people that are living there and at the time jeanette Almost she was the only missing person listed in springfield Brian. I am assuming that they could sell than it was a female hand. Well, I did have the the finger nail polish, but we No, that doesn't mean anything by tat we both now well, we both know we we grew up in the gothic came, was was going crazy, yeah We had, we might have had more guys with finger nail polish than girls in the high school is passed

in the latter will classy high school. You probably had more guys wherein nail polish neapolitan college tech than the college prep programme, but well it took some time captain but, searched was organized. They had to call in a favor with another police apartment, the springfield department was very small and had limited resources back then they did not. Canine unit or a search dog, so they brought in an officer with a bloodhound. And they had a team of about four five officer. Some of them were actually off duty officers. They had volunteered their time to help in the search The official search started around three p m that same afternoon, just after about three thirty p m? The search team entered a what did area this is off of mountain view, road they spent some. I'm kind of you know getting deep into these woods. The

Searchers passed over hill crossed a creek and then came to a cork now this area, this a pretty actually belong to the, how they'll construction materials company and, according to the office. this area would not be accessible to any normal means of traffic. That's their word, so clarification on what that may mean is just this simple: they would not expect hikers to beat trampling through this area, mainly because of where it was located. It was They got near this Corey area that they found what they believe to be a small top portion of the arm that was earlier located at the apartment complex and there so mean that the dog again a dog, went to the woods, took the arm to get back to the apartment, complex and so that this peace, what fell off

I'd journey back and remember officer dawn that we spoke of earlier. While he was one of the officers they had volunteered his time that afternoon to join the search, so he along another officer started up what officer dawn would later call a very steep hill. He says that it was steep enough that he is several times on his way to the top at the top. The hill? There was a flat area. It was on this spot that the two men had located a body The body was lying face down the flu area where the body was lying was about twelve feet around on the bar a blue, there was a blue t, shirt and tan pants, but no shoes or socks. They did find a pair of flip flops near by now. Excuse me: for for saying this and gigging low warning here, it's a little gross, but animals had eight most of the flesh off of the feet and around the head of this body. According to the

officers. They found the body. The clothing was in so so shape, but the he was very deteriorated, they couldn't tell if was the body of a male or female and as they had anticipated. The body was missing an arm. There were any arm was resting under the head and the head was pretty much just a skull by this time with long dark, matted hair. Even though they couldn't tell outright in the gender of the body they suspected it was a female body because of the long hair and they had found a pocket book near by law, even though this is like the height of the hippy movement or a arap balls in the air movement there was what the officers would say. A bizarre arrangement of sticks and stones on the body. Some said that the sticks had been arranged to appear like crosses that there were some, stones arranged around the head in a semicircle and a court

to one of the officers: it looked almost like a halo around the bodies head, one of these officers told officer dawn that, in his opinion, looks to him to be the work of witchcraft when the detectives arrived, the they kicked all of the search. Is in the officers off of the hilltop. They had to wait for the coroner to show up to officially declared the body as dead before they could remove the body. Now the hill was so steep captain did they had to use a a fire truck. Remove this body and the way that this Explain to me is that on one side you know you you pretty much have a steep cliff are steep hill. and then on one side. You have a cliff, so just a complete drop off and what they did was they took the fire truck and they backed it up to the king

portion and they took the ladder and they shouted up towards the top of the cliff yeah minutes. I like, when you move in a mattress right, said gone through the house. You go through the bedroom window. Right that's a good explanation. I can guess the officers just determined that the hill was too steep too. To take it down. The hill in this way would be faster. probably preserve the body, the best that they could now once they get the body back to have to check it out to try to find some evidence figure out who this person is in the cause of death. It's crazy captain because they weren't able to determine a cause of death.

No cause of death determined, and while the coroner was going to continue to work on this aspect of the case, the detectives they were charged with, trying to figure out who this body belong to the identification of from the autopsy. Were they able to speculate anything I mean, I know that they can determine. You know for sure like this is how the person dies Sometimes they can say what it's possible that this person died. This were ok, so my understanding is that the the body had been deteriorated very badly, and this did not allow them to come up to come up with a one hundred percent conclusion of how this person would have died. Now they say they believe that this person was strangled, ETA can prove they can prove it. and there was actually know like ligature marks to to lead them to that conclusion. What my guess is,

is it they have. No, they don't have any obvious signs of of a bullet wounds. You know or any signs of forced trauma or something that would have fractured the skull or fractured other bones, and typically you would see that with bullet holes or you would see that with stab wounds or struck over the head. There was nothing to indicate that anything like that had happened to this person before he or she expired, or if there was any indication of that, I possibly could have been postmortem as well correct now to kind of paint a picture of how badly decomposed this body laws and in how possibly long it had sat there in the woods, the clothing of the person in the a body of the person it had laid there so long that they kind of started to become one and was very sunken into the grid, I found that the body had laid on so mean when their seeing the situation there seeing the site, it's obvious to them, even

somebody with an untrained. I that we're looking at a person- that's been there and out in the elements for quite some time. So as we said that the detectives are, large, with trying to make an identification of this body, and the one detective decide you know what he's he remembered. What one of the other officers said remember that Sir said hey. This could be the arm of genetic palmer. Well he remembered hearing that he says you know what I'm going to start there. So I mean obviously she's the only person that's missing in your town reported missing and, furthermore, they kind of believed that what they are looking at the body of a of possible female victims right. So this is a good starting point. So what they do the following day, the day after the bodies discovered they have a meeting with jeanette dentist. Now. The way that I understand this is that the dentist he will- new to the area, and he was the young dentist string.

And he was working for this older dentist that have been in the area for many many years skeptical and I guess what skeptical, while man's identity, Next thing you know you'll be saying they should have their own school year anyway. So I guess he said that he was jeanette dentist, because the way that this situation, he had set up. Was this that the older dentist he took all the older pay, has anybody that was younger and knew well. He got the new patients, so the dentist had to go over to the funeral home and do an examination on the bodies. Dental work, comparing it to records that he had brought with him regarding jeanette diploma and, of course, made a positive ratification that this was in fact the missing team that they had been looking for. She'd been missing for almost six weeks ever spent in time and a funeral home. Only when I met ending a funeral. Well, I had a friend that lived in

Ok, and now we had a sixth grade dance and at the funeral has you know romantic in a creepy were well knows not have it my girl. No, I think that's what you do when you want the children to remind their parents. That- and this is what happens when you don't vote for the school levy now says it was this party was school today, so we got They talk about captain the devil's teeth and for those of you There are listening. You know the title. The show was the devil's tv, one wasn't just a clever hame that the captain came up. What did you say? Devils teeth? I think I think I did eight listen to our new episode, the devil's teeth, but the reason why we have this is this title is because janet the palm of her body was found at the top of the cliff The clear that they found her body is now no to the locals as the death devils teeth. Now our story tat

place and nineteen seventy two, but how this spot to be known as the devil's teeth. We'll have to go back a bit morning to locals back and nineteen twenties, it was known as the devil's skull. This is because some kids found a large natural depression in the blue stone there was up there. So this is a like fairly large rock hollow and in the spring and summer months it would fill with water in the kids would sit inside of this kind of like up like a bathtub or hot tub. Huh yeah in the autumn months and when it started to get cold out, the place became known, dreary, kind of kind of like a high yoda. when the sun goes away in a vampire than that. You don't see it again for a few months, but it is said that you could often see buzzards circling above the spot because, like it'll, rodents and stuff. What would fall in therein drowned in the water and the birds would pick their bodies out of there

but during times where there would be enough time between rainfall, the raw Calo would dry out and it would start to take on the appearance of the inside of lichen, inverted half skull. So the kid the kid started, calling it the devil, skull. So then, years later, when the construction materials company purchase the land and started mining the area, they would dump loads of waste rock along the edge of the day skull, so the rows of this waste rock started. Looking like teeth like signing the jaw of the devil skull. So that's how it took on the name of the devil's teeth and remains. It still called that to this day in new orleans, twenty twelve burst catch. Here I drove to an address some one had given him that didn't exist ass. He stood in the park, What were the address should have been? He was shot and killed. I'm

you D, umbra, join me for the newest season of counter clock. As I die the motive behind bruces murder. A series of events that have never been fully investigated until now. Binge all fourteen episodes of or clock season, five, wherever you listen to podcast. when it comes to buying your first home, everyone has questioned. Can we even where to buy a house right now? Well, I need to negotiate. How do I save and negotiate locally max agent has answer pay Brian. Those are really good questions thanks. That's my first hour by hour first time liars all the time I got you. Remakes agents have more experience than other real estate agents, visit, remakes dot com or download the remarks app to find the right age it the right agent. led the way each office independently owned and operated? Did you know, Stu card delivers. More than groceries even get tech beauty office applies

sporting goods and more all delivered right to your door and as fast as an hour. So whether you are cooking dinner or your phone chargers cooked you can save. Of multiple trips by shopping over one thousand stores in the instigated app visit instincts. I come to get free delivery on your first. Three orders offer valid for a limited time. Ten dollar minimum per order, additional terms apply, right cheers may desire? cheers. I was just admiring your little fancy coaster thing you have over there on your desk during the beer break ins, kazaa some beautiful people that listen to the show, and they like to send me some things Captain. I want to talk about victim ology here, because we know that jeanette department is our victim and we know that she was found september. Nineteen nineteen

seventy two. She was last seen on august, seventh, nineteen. Seventy two: this is like six weeks before they find her body. Apparently she was supposedly going to gale donoghue home is a girl, her same age, good friend of hers somewhat, that she had hung out with often apparently I guess, gale lived approximately eight miles away. Now the or goes like this, because there's some conflicting stories amongst people close to jeanette on what her plans war for the last day that we know that she was possibly allow. and the one story comes from gale donoghue herself. She says that that morning one of the two had had phone the other one, either genetic called her. She had called jeanette the plane

for the day was the jeanette was supposed to come over to gales home, because there were two boys that they were interested in, that they had made plans with and they were gonna hang out that afternoon. Apparently, I guess the jeanette says I can't make it you know. I know we said we were gonna hang out, but I can't make it. My mom has some chores and things that I have to do and I won't be oda to to get over there. Gale says: look, you know we ve been there. Well, I don't know that all of us have been there. I can recall times where you're supposed to make plans, and you got two girls, two guys making plans and if your buddy doesn't show up. Now you got a weird situation right, because you're thinking Maybe the girls won't show up, or maybe they only one hang out cause he's there, whatever your day is kind of ruined. If somebody drops off specially at that age, yeah it's an awkward time so gale kind of gives jeanette the business like no.

Made these plans with these guys, you should figure, wait to get over here. My made it happen. Genetic where she hangs out, hangs up the phone. She says you know get over there. What I'm going to who is I'm going to talk to my mom I'll hit your hitchhiker ride to your place, which the hitchhiking was a lot more popular back then? Yes, course, where the story start to vary a little bit. Is we have Jeanette sister Jeanette sister said that on that day, Jeanette had? her. If she wanted to go with her two gales home and this issue. This is where I should. I should therefore? This is where the story gets. A little strange she, is that she wanted to go to tommy's home tommy, is a boy that I guess Jeanette was interested in and she told her sister tommy lived near gale gale would eight or say that that's not you know, that's not the

She was coming to my home. Yes, we did know a boy named tommy, but The guy I was interested in red when I think we have your captain, as we have an older sister who ultimately does not end up going with jeanette, and I bet you there's. I bet you both stories of probably true in sums since we probably have an older sister. That maybe really only new part of the facts of why John was leaving her why she wanted to go where she was going yeah. But this happens all the times, especially with teenagers. You know you have a situation where people's stories don't line up, but also it's like you're trying to their perceptions or off of what the truth is. It's not that they're technically lying they just don't. Really remember the facts correctly? Yes, and we have so we have the sister. There was asked to walk, which net the sister, ultimately, funds are down. She had something else to do. We do,

that jeanette reached out to another friend asking her if she would like to walk with her to the two gales home. What was on the report that the mom was clung to driver that erect. Typically, her mother would drive her down to a train station and then she would take the train the two wherever she was going, maybe it was work later that day or two a friends now remember. We said that her friend, gale dont use home was approximately eight miles away so situation? She would need to get three miles to the train station and then make it the rest of the way to her friends house. It's it's the summertime, its august. Seventh, she tells her mom, hey it's nice out. I would prefer to walk he's got three miles to travel on foot she's reach out a few

from people who can't go with her or dont want to make the trip with her so she's on foot alone. For these three miles, and I dont know of it matters at all. But I also heard that I wasn't a nice pleasant conversation. It was the mom said, I'm gonna drive you and she said. Ah I'm sixteen. Now, others. You know I'll hitchhike. Well, it's interesting that you bring that up because of a couple of points and one that I will wait to get to later. But one point as this, though pretty common womb. You know what we're talking about victim ology and what kind of person was jeanette and what kind of family did she come from its wide reported by people that knew her and knew her family that there was a lot of kind of back and forth, but in between mom and daughter. Did the dead? Jeanette was kind of a tough, a tough girl and its sounds like the diploma family was a little tough, all of them and me

The hard headed would be a word that we could use Well, I mean I think, it's safe to say I mean I don't want to assume too much, but I think when a when a younger boy is becoming a man, the sixteen to eighteen range, he has some issues with the father mostly, and when a when I was a teenage girl was becoming a woman. She said seven issues with her mother. Well, if, in fact, they did argue about whether she would walk or ride to the train station that not be there. Only argument that I have heard reported of that that day of the data she went missing, apparently her cousin had run away from home several times, and I dont get this that she was running away from home. Where she had like abusive parents or she was being mistreated, where it was more of a teenager and she was kind of wild and

running away might be going in staying with friends for a couple days without permission from the parents know. Well, on this day, her parents had informed her then her cousin had been gone for like a week or two like a laker along time than than expected and previous from four previous times again. This is a different time, so it wasn't, It is pretty common that at eighteen he moved out back in the seventies and so you'd have a lot of situations. Where somebody would I'm going to live on my own at sixteen or seventeen that wasn't super uncommon. and at some point during the course of that morning, genetic parents told her cousin had been missing for awhile and jeanette got upset with in kind of gave them the business because she's like I did you wait so long to tell me so they it could have had more than one argument that day regardless she goes off on foot.

herself. She's gotta make the three mile hike to the train station. Now we do, that she was seen walking. Several people had seen her looking in the direction of the train station, but that war is granted are about. Forty five minutes yeah and she's last seen not terribly far from her home, where she's crossing an intersection? This is widely can after the last, citing of jeanette diploma Davis. She went missing now. Let's talk about that, I'm a family. I've been told that this is an upper middle last area, the neighbourhood, this she was lived, in the neighborhood that she was last seen in regarding her family. A lot of people have referred to the. Emily as quota unquote, weird, and that would make you think that there would be. Thing very strange with this family. I don't know I found a lot strange with with what they their accounts of war This family was we're, they mean by weird. So this was a

more community right and these the debate We were not very social. Rarely went out. They didn't go out a lot. The adults didn't the mother and father and when they did while they were not social to the other people in the community. In this regard, As you know, when you take into account the time period and the small community that they lived in, this was considered to be strange, There was the other. Situation that there were mafia rumours that may be. The father was in them off This was an italian family, a large italian family. I believe they had seven or eight children and they seem to have some money, and so I think so people than in the neighborhood and in the town thought that they were involved in the mafia when they had

a bit of money: does they weren't goin out all the time there you go so an endless there's a difference between young. Maybe there were quiet, some people assume all this person's quiet, so their rude and saw you know I'd like to know. If there was it. Or were they outwardly disproved two people there were a few police officers now retired. Obviously that state did they. responded to the home several times on police calls for what well I guess they don't really know the police. Don't really know. because every time they would arrive, they would get the same story that there was a problem. Now there is no problem were all fine. Here then, believed that there was probably some yelling in fighting between the parents and at times maybe one of the parents would call, or one of the children would call the police and then whatever

issue had warranted. The call was resolved by the time the police would arrive, but we do have several police officer stating that they believe and recall that happening several times. Regarding our victim, jeanette palma. What kind of kid was she were kind of girl was she that is it as the debate it's all over the shop. You you ve read these things, do I'd, say in depending on who you talk to you, get one completely different version of somebody else? You know somebody else's account and if you take all the different versions of who, was. We can literally talk about that for maybe for five hours. It's that debatable. Art will start No. Let's not because I found that portion of when I was

Looking into this case, I found that portion to be quite boring and I felt that it was quite really cause. I I actually thought it was interesting. Well, the thing for me was, I didn't think it helped me understand case any better. Maybe that's why I thought it was boring, but I found that it was interesting that you, no one person would be all she was a real wild girl You know she was always choose. Always hanging out with the greasers and doing drugs, eggs in and she was a fast girl. She spent a lot of time with a lot of different boys. Yet rumours are alike. Cops were saying that you could find her at lake lover's, lane and stuff like that. She would always be in some way car and then you have other people do. Other girls are boys her eyes, it would say the complete opposite there have like well, she might have smoke cigarette every now and then maybe even some we'd once in a while, but I wouldn't consider her be wild. I didn't know her to do anything more than first base Maybe she liked to kiss some boys, but nothing.

no. That was out of the ordinary for her time in over age. She, sixteen years old, that's what everybody's doing what most of the kids are doing at that age and then you have other people that are saying that she was very religious and this he had a boy or to that she was interested in and when she was interested in a boy she didn't look at other boy. She chase other boys or talk to him than she was pretty conservative. So it's really all over the shop at the end of the day and it makes it hard to come. nailed down what type of person she is one there's again there's then there becomes rumours of that she's heavily involved in church and there's a lot of stuff from her family coming out and saying she was very involved in church and then other people Zammit shoes possibly have involved in witchcraft, yeah and one I found captain the win years later when people would go back and try to investigate this case is, I think,

that what a lot of people were reporting regarding her character, jeanette character and her actions it seemed to me they were reporting things that they had heard are things that they had heard their people say, or my parents told me this, or my sister told me that here's what I wonder you know we mentioned during the trailer that this case is almost become folk lore at some point, and I think that very quickly in this case, when you have a sixteen, your old girl that goes missing and she's missing for six weeks and then later found dead in the woods you know sometimes in- and I don't care for this one bit, but sometimes parents and priests and police officers and teachers and principles answer uncles. Anybody in the form of authority figure two teenagers. They kind of use this as a teaching moment where they're like

they misconstrue the truth. They do. They stretch the truth quite a bit sometimes when they choose to take this on his teaching moment, and then Throw things like she was a wild girl. You know she was always in the back seat of cars with with boys. Hanging lover lanes disney what happens to you and they give hand jobs, yet they don't really outwardly say that, but they imply like this happen, because she was this way more. She was she way and drugs and look where gotter refer madness, man, yeah and where really I mean yeah, maybe maybe you can use that as a teaching moment. I dont think you can win win. You dont have a cause of death. And you have a person. is a victim at this point we don't have. anything to point us in the direction to lead us to believe that. Did she had anything to do with her? Demise was roma lotta hearsay yeah. One thing that does not to be rumour or hearsay

remember we have her telling her friend that she would just hitchhiker ride over to her house. Well, it seems to be that that was a general consensus amongst her friends was did that jeanette was not opposed to hitching a ride There were several of these friends, though, that, however, that said she would not get into a car and less. She would know the driver and a pair We know that some silly, it's like this one or the other right is gonna hitchhiking Nancy. only get in the car when you're hitchhiking. If you know the person I get what you're saying I wonder if you know if she would recognise, go allowing guys her age or a little bit older. While they would have to be a little little bit older because apparently back then you had to be seventeen and a half in new jersey to get a licence at that time. Raza when she sixteen, trying to get around on her own, my speculation,

is what they mean by that is that she would recognise a friend's car from high school and then said, the old them out more weight, down you know, hey tom hey Julie, whatever I'm had never hear you if near them. Would you mind give me a ride? Kenneth yeah, but this kind of stuff in cases drives me nuts, because maybe that's not the type of person she was skin in a car with a stranger, but all it takes is one time yeah, maybe desperate right and didn't want to make me eight miles is his stretch right so after walking for forty five minutes maybe went I don't really know this guy, but he seems safe or he's he's looks like somebody I might go to high school with what he looks like he's only eighteen years old, well, here, One rumoured that I do want to talk about the causes. One seems to stand out amongst the others. For me, captain- and this is some it didn't really. I think this the rumour that was swirling about amongst the people that new

in there and amongst the people at her high school. But it wasn't something that was kind of widely known until a couple of years after her death- and was a rumour of a party. The night the jeanette had disappeared and this party was taking place at her friends, house, donna, blackness now her friend donna bladders and her brothers apparently were throwing a party that evening the room is that genetic showed up to this party and at some point you know there were drugs, and linking- and things like that, going on at this party as some Did she had overdosed on an anew drug and one of gladys brothers or all of them. A kind of panicked and people that were at that party took her body, often

the woods off of mountview road and dumped her there. I guess this is this seems to be the belief that is also held by some of the members of the de palma fam and some people dispute this because they say well. The drugs that would be the unnamed drugs would be like lsd and that you can't oh d from lsd and I'm not a lsd experts? I I don't know if that's possible or not. I thought I was working with an lsd expert I know, but I would. I would also assume you know cause one of the other rumors is that may be that she left this party and she went wandering and she just collapsed or whatever in this in the woods. Right. Is that possible if your high on lsd. Well, you have the situation where there is no visible signs of cause of death for this individual rights, so that that would lead

Some. You now lend some credence to what they're saying here, but so that the people of the deposit, emily that seem to believe this is we have Cindy her sister. We ve mentioned her sister before, but not by name the youngest long curls and, according to indy. Her mother believe this too, and the reason why they believe this rumour that they heard was they were called not having seen donna, blackness and her brothers at the funeral, you know this was this- was awakened funeral- that was attended by hundreds of people, people that did pigeon new in and the palm of family new- and they don't recall seeing them at the funeral? when you have that many people you might have missed somebody you might have missed a face in the crowd, is also possible that they didn't go for whatever these and I dont know I I know how much it points towards gill. It might seem strange though I can, I can get on board with that- that it might seem strange,

but we have a friend of of genetics and she was somebody that was very close to donna gladys, and she disputes this. She says it. You know this rumour might have some. It might have some truth to it but according to this friend in her name, is Denise parker. She gives us the different story she says that there was no party at dawn his house, that night, that's just a bad rumour. She states that there were always kids, you're, always kids hanging out at dawn his house, twenty four seven. It was a hang out, you know, but had there been a party, She would have been aware of it, and she also stated that that was not a party house. It was just a place where you would. You would see a couple kids hanging out from time to time right, but there

I can it's not a party house, it's his kids hanging out, but is it possible that why these kids were hanging out parents leave for a little bit and they decide to do some experimenting with some drugs? And some things happen so it, but Denise would go on to further say that she did hear a rumour that jeanette was adonis how's, that she's the same woman saying that there's there was no party that night? She saying, however, that jeanette had stopped by their will on her trip, walking this she had stopped by donors and was lost king for a ride to get to her friends, house right and sheep when she gets there she finds out, the Donna was actually grounded and could not drive her over to gales hall. and from there the rumour she heard was jeanette had just had to leave on foot, because

friend was unable to driver there. That dinner. I also heard that maybe she asked the mother if the girl was grounded, but then she's like well. Let me ask your mother, ok, I should who is really into finding. But either way. I think that backs up the store that she was at least there and maybe young again or unclear. There was a party. if that verse gear their version that you'd heard there would have been no no party. I would assume. Now. What do the investigators think when retired investigators and police were were presented with these rumours regarding the party. There's a man by the name of ed kitsch now add was the juvenile officer back then, and he was a june. I officer for over twenty years in the area can believe they. Let kids do the earth and take the job add, believes that the blackest theory is the one that holds the most truth, the blackest night and the pimps out of all

the theories that he's heard over the years and rumours he believes this one holds the most truth. He would go on say that he's ninety percent sure that something happened, who jeanette in the blackness home that night and that mark gladys. This is one of the brothers was rumored to have been involved and he he believes it. That's where the truth in this case lies all right. So in your personal opinion, do you think a group of teenagers could hold onto a story like I mean I've seen. I know what you did last summer, and then you have to wonder: not only are they holding onto lie, you're talking about keeping quiet and holding to a life of four decades over for decades but of its family members. Can it be easier to do I tend to when, when, when we look at a lot of cases,

The first thing that I look at what I'm when I'm looking at a cases, was this committed by an individual or committed by multiple people, a group of people as generous and start with wikipedia and the thing here is with especially with these older cases: that's usually the something that I make that it's probably an individual rather than a group of people, because it is often hard to keep a group called yet there is usually one person that will come out at some point and say hey. This is what has nor I know something You know we have drunken confessions it. We ve heard of on the shown reported about. We ve had death bed conventions that we reported about. So often I found that. This is not the case that it, that is, would be very tough for a group of people to keep this quiet now, but keep keep this in mind. We're talking about. Did a group of people We keep this quite because there's rumours out there that this is what in fact happened. So, where it it's it's

Now boils down to: how can you trace these? where's back. What is the rule? of these rumours and do they stem from somebody that was at that house that night right nailed it saw jam, janet. So what you're saying is? Is it speculation and that's how we get to this point, and we know that she was at this house, and we know that kid's hung out at this house. So is that where it's coming from now and it's as per pure speculation or somebody say something, and because of that, the rumour male started up, and I don't want to upset anybody, because you know when I make this statement, I thought about this last night when I was thinking about this cases like do I say this because I'm a fraid that people are gonna be like well, then it everything you just said? Is hogwash no, but I think this should be taken into. I have to say captain, because everything I think you have to take it with a green assault, because Case almost reminds me of

the cereal case of add ons, Eden and humanly we're talking about, Earl that disappeared, she's not found until we are later and then I we have we have teenagers that are being question there, like winded see your last. Did you see her on this? and I think they start wondering well yeah I solar yeah. I saw on what was that a tuesday knows a monday? Oh ok Maybe it was a month ago, solar may you didn't? You get into a point where you or to wander the day, I'm not, I don't Call these people liars. If somebody believe something, though not liars, there does

miss. Remember I rent miss remembering they that they don't have the day it was. It should have been a normal day. It should have been an ordinary day. There was no reason to remember if that was the last time. You would see this person or not. Yes, I see the similarities mean we have similar ages. We have somebody gone missing for a period of time and then their body was found, but a difference here is humanly was reported missing, where jeanette was reported as a runaway yeah. So I said we would get this later in. This is where we need to get to that right. So her parents reported her missing the same night, that we had already discussed her. Parents are Salvatore the and florence to parma. Now keep in mind, Jeanette was scheduled to work that evening, or at least she too, her parents that she had to work that evening. So she was.

Going to go to work. After going to her friends house, she never returns home. That night. Her mother starts making calls to genetic friends into their pets it is well. Nobody seems to know anything she didn't arrive at her friends home not only you don't know anything. In fact, no one had anything to report to them. You know, having heard from or plans changing anything like that. There was nothing to report now when they called the police to report their daughter miss the police gave her the old same old troubling story that we ve heard a hundred times. When we talk about these older cases, you know it. in this a lot. They they get the old she needs to be gone for twenty four hours before she can be reported missing. According to the police, it was the diplomas, the family themselves, That reported jeanette as a runaway right and that might have been the cause of his assuming because of her cousin.

Because of the cousin and remember you and I had talked that there was probably at least two arguments that took place that day between her and one of her parents before leaving the house. the thing here, though, captain where this gets real screwy is you know back then police would not really. This is in some that you investigated when somebody's reported missing its investigated, Somebody's reported as a runaway you might look around. The person you put out a you know you you, you alert the officers that this person is has left their home. that the parents are looking for this home. If somebody matching the description go up and talk to him, but they don't really do any work when somebody's were worded as a runaway that, because there, under the belief that this person left of their own will that they wanted to leave the home in a most these cases when that day, Happen the teenager returns after a couple days. The thing here,

and I wonder about you- know, win win. A girl is reported, say she was reported missing. Let's say she was reported as a runaway. Let's, let's, let's take that aside, but she's report, It is not being where she supposed to be ok and then six weeks later, she's found dead out in the middle of the woods somewhere and you I'm back as an investigation in you say what we can't come up with a cause of death. We're going to rule it a suspicious death or homicide because she was found somewhere she should not have been that we don't expect her to have gone on her own. So there for we goin to we're going to investigate it as a homicide. So now your department has declared this a homicide. The problem you have here is: if, when you took them, in persons report you decided or officers amongst your group decided she. Not missing, she's a run away, and then you find her dead out the middle, the woods. Well then, there-

problem with the department. There's a problem with somebody in the department wanted. The detectives are one of the copse, because the public wants to know, why did you call her a runaway? It's very likely. She did not run away if she was found murdered somewhere man. So here's my big question mark The question is that later the police stating that the family, ordered her as a runaway. This was an opera This was not are doing nothing that we did wrong there to cover their ass right to cover their butts. The problem I have with the family- let's say the family did report her as a runaway. I understood and that yes, there was an argument or two, and I understand maybe because her cousin had taken off. You thought maybe she was doing the same thing, but there's a couple problems with these stories. One is

If the cousin had been gone long enough that the family, not only the immediate family but the extended family were growing concern me. She was gone a lot longer than typically. She would be gone to the point where you tell your daughter that starts an argument with you that morning, because she's my he waited so long to tell her, wouldn't you Have enough concern of the cousin of your niece? Did your daughter, all of a sudden missing would wouldn't fall into that same concerned department for you like, naturally for me, it would. The second part that I have an issue with is If your daughter ran away shouldn't, take anything with her and you twenty four hours to figure that out. I would be a little if, if my daughter, sun, which I dont have tabled exist, but if what, if um existed and left, you know said, say they took off and they were gone, oh case in the police.

tell me. I can't report this for twenty four hours. I want to do a little investigating on my own, think I'm gonna first look at is: did they take anything with them? You know it. Kill a sixteen year old kid that packs up a backpack full of items is alot, differ then somebody that just leaves walking on foot with nothing Do you ever try to run away when urchin, not like a real run away. You know like the silly like maybe road, my bike to foreign state gone a little. You know like ours longer than I was supposed to, but not overnight and dont think I ever made ever thus on run away to state out later be no note of it, but I think I think my ten to one point, was laid on two like that's it I'm out of here and then it's like hours later you get hungry and it gets dark and you like, ok, well, I'm goin back, I was in kenya. Remember. Had this duffel bag

think it I'm gonna run away, and I say I put the duffel bag. You there's no like strap right. So I put the the handles around my neck and I have the stuff bag filled. You are going to make a very for now, as I got to that like the end of the court, can it breathe see? This is a teaching moment? This is what you get for running away, what she was strong teaching mommy. Am I my mom. Looked at me and said this is what you get forgiven hand. Jobs are well captain. I think what we ve brought up here. Is it there's a lot questions about her friends and certainly she's about her own lifestyle and character, but where I thought that we need a home in on and talk about when we start off the next episode. There's some questions about this family and about the parents as well. What what truly happy

and two jeanette the palm, and we never even got to the aspect of possible satanism or witchcraft, involved in this murder, and that is a huge topic in this case things for lists endings on a friend thanks for fair and on social media. Until tomorrow be good, bye, and don't let him.