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The Hog Trail Murders /// Part 2 /// 601

2022-08-03 | 🔗

The Hog Trail Murders /// Part 2 /// 601

Part 2 of 2 


The Hog Trail Murders refers to series a murders that took place in the Southwest District of Florida from 1994 - 1996. Warning this is some pretty gruesome stuff. Today we take a look at the crimes as people working and living in two Florida counties begin finding the bodies of victims that were left in the woods and on the Hog Trails. Today we expand this True Crime story to a third county as eight bodies are recovered in Fort Myers, Florida. These remains will become known as the Fort Myers 8 and as you will hear there is much debate out there if the Hog Trail Murders and the Fort Myers 8 are connected or not. 

Beer of the Week - Pulp Friction by Motorworks Brewing

Garage Grade - 3 and 3 quarter bottle caps out of 5 

Recommended Reading - Bogeyman; He was every parent’s nightmare by Steve Jackson 

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Thirty years ago, a van exploded in a parking garage below the world trade center. The plan was to send the noise tower crashing into the south. It failed, but six people were killed and more than one thousand injured. The master behind. It all were just getting started and would soon change the world forever featuring, never before heard audio. This is a story tat by investigators from around the world, using double agents and an undercover operative to bring the bomber to justice this is operation trade bomb, an apple, original podcast host. By mark smiling follow operation trade bomb on apple podcast, gassed bedtime is rough even for peanut. That's why peep?
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To south florida, accounting in the mid nineties were rocked by the disturbing discovery of five disfigured and mutilated bodies in three different locations across the cities of north, poor and port charlotte between ninety ninety, four and ninety. Ninety six five bodies were discovered, but it was the last one which was the first to be identified. All five cases were considered homicides too, of the five victims. At this point. In our time line. are identified and along with autopsy reports, it was believed that
killer was preying on vulnerable young male victims, who were either transient or homeless. Now one victim that was identified was richard Montgomery, who was killed a short time before his body was discovered. This would make his case quite a bit different from the others, and the police were gearing up to try to track down the person's known to mister Montgomery, to find out what they could possibly know about his martyr and what they find is some great witnesses for the montgomery case. Here's what they learn. They find two witnesses that say that they had seen mister Montgomery the day before his body was found in the woods. According to these witnesses, these, where people that new mister montgomery
some degree. They said that he told friends the night that he disappeared, that he had a gig. He had a job that was going to pay him two hundred dollars and he was last seen by his friends standing by a rural road waiting for someone waiting to meet someone but it sounds more like he was waiting for someone to meet him and pick him up at that location. Then, of course, we know that mister Montgomery was found dead the next day, police also learn that richer, Montgomery lived with his sister and they could place the victim with some other individuals. This is Bobby would occur and gary mason and some other friends the day before when he and mentioned that he was going out to make a few hundred dollars and would be back shortly when asked by some in the group. If, whatever up to as illegal mister, Montgomery, simply smile
Mister Montgomery, also told his mother that someone had offered to pay him two hundred dollars to pose for nude pictures, but he did not tell her, who made the offer right in this same conversation with his mother, Montgomery mentioned that he recently met a man named Daniel qana hand who lived in Punta gordo aisles and was a nurse at a medical center. The last time friends saw. Montgomery alive was, on April, sixteenth between four p m in seven p m weeks later may of ninety. Ninety six two witnesses came forward to point out that Dan caught a hand is likely be the last person that they were aware of to be in contact with the now deceased richard Montgomery again he was the fifth body found, but this is huge because we can identify one of the victims and we have some people that knew the victim.
still working to peace. These alarming details together and unexpected call came in to law enforcement. This may be one of the strangest places that they would think to possibly get a break in their case. This call came from and incarcerated individual who, told the police he knew who had murdered richard Montgomery one. If this guy is credible, this could be a huge break for law enforcement, the personal Calls in is a one david, a peyton, so the next big break in this case came on. May eighth. Ninety, ninety six, that from a prison inmates located in more haven- and this was david- a peyton who had a story for the detectives David Peyton, told police that before he was locked up,
He said that he would crews the streets of fort myers florida and hustle gay men for money. He told detective in march of nineteen. Ninety five, he was picked up by a person that he I dental fight as Dan Connor hand. He said Dan gave him drugs and alcohol and asked if they could drive to a remote area to take some photos of David, Paden, naked and tied to a tree. This is an incredible data. l and graphic account of this incident, and it is all from a fantastic website called twisted florida. It's a blog about several different. True crime stories from the Florida area recommend this blog, which I love you when a cap, and especially the beach communities there but florida is as weird is any state when it comes true cried my love to go on vacation there and and because of you, you have shine so much
I on the the crimes in ohio to basically the two places you go most of the time have some weird cases suspicious low bit of a red flag. So I'll tell this portion of our true crime story, as it is told, on the twisted florida blog go on kind, Sir David might have thought he was in for a good time when a stranger in a car rolled up alongside him and asked him if he wanted to smoke some joints peyton off spent his knights hanging out on the streets of fort myers highbrow you and spokes we'd that late evening and ninety ninety five he accepted a man's offer an opt in to his car. What followed would not be a typical night in south west florida as the two coasting along. U s. Forty one paint notice that, while the quiet, and in the driver's seat with supplying him with marijuana volume and beer the dry
where was not partaking himself little conversation was taking place between the two strangers till the man, seemingly out of nowhere ass Paden. If he had ever had photographs taken of him specifically nude photos, the stranger said he wanted to drive to the woods and take photos of patents. Naked body tied up reaching over. He touched peyton in a certain area and explained that the rope would not be collectively and explained that the rope. would be tied tightly, but not bad enough to hurt him uri continuing on their drive. The two ended up on an out of the way dirt road and charlotte county florida. They pass a couple of people in trucks with dogs and upon in them, the man became agitated and upset. This is the drive, the two
moved along slowly until they hit a mud hole and the vehicle became stuck when peyton offered to go. Ask the other people that they had just seen for help the man's demeanor darkened and he firmly said to not move from the car while he talked to them for life. Returning with another person to help push the car out of the hole he directed patent to remain inside the vehicle. Alarmed peyton turned around and looking at his surroundings. He noticed a few disturbing items in the back seat of the vehicle items with a potentially chilling purpose, the idiot these items it he says he saw their captain were a camera, a bag, a tarp, some hope and a hunting knife, while the camera- maybe that doesn't reopening red flags, but I don't like people haven't big trash. in their car, so run free life or all you got some row
maybe run for your life or once you see a tarp run for your life get out of there. This is not a good place to be. I don't find myself in their vehicle had also it's hard for me to past that part all year, one I'm not get in the vehicle in the first place to once. You touch my pervaded the ogre slinger, I'm gone but also when you say, hey I'd like to take some nude photos of you tied up to a tree of all. Nobody wants to see the captain nude second, while you do not want to see me tied up neg it on a tree Well, this guy driving this car. He does you send me a live, not asked him specifically this question, but I'm here to tell you I would wager hundred dollar bill. He does well on the front our six hundred pursued. You just said the funniest thing, the you ve ever said
So I guess the next six hundred shells it's all up hill from here lay it's in gentleman, but yeah, I'm I'm not getting into that car. There's too many red flags and and if I get the carter, suddenly red flags that I am jumping out of the window. For my life, this is what's going to push over the edge. I dont know how scared or frightened he was or how off put. He was by any of the actions leading up to this. I can simply it simply regurgitating the story, that's on twisted florida as they saw so he says patents. as it you know, seeing these items. He was already kind of getting frightened and he said, driven I fear I had to make a split second decision and tell you what this patent, now, while I would not have gotten in the car. This guy makes a great effort here this is a very smart move on patents behalf. So what he does soon as this man
dan com, a hand in this other person get the vehicle. Remember that the car stuck in this muddle right as as these guys push it out peyton. He does as instructed by this this person. It's been driving around remember, damkina handsome. don't get out of the car. You say you, or to remain in the vehicle? Well, David Peyton remains in the vehicle he just hops, and the driver satan these? The area takes the vehicle with them. So much he's driving off in this blue mercury caprice Annie, adding south on? U S, forty one in the man's vehicle that you know the guy that pick them up, but because of the drugs in the beer and his sister
he was already having a hard time staying awake at the wheel as he's trying to flee this area while in again so it could be a situation where they start moving the the car and he starts grown man. Whatever this guy gave me is, is doing something to it's trying to pass me out right. Well, I dunno, if he's trying to pass them out, I think he's just plying him with drugs and alcohol so that this guy becomes an easier victim, even more vulnerable, and I mean your talk, That combination as described by painting by is Oh you marijuana in beer, well party, you want to stay awake and drive a vehicle. You better get some toothpicks and and keep your eye his pride open your eyelids product, but he says he drove off the drugs earnest system there. Taking effect, he was having a hard time staying awake. Of course. This whole thing
There is no real violence here. What happens? Is you with that may be, or as the good people at twisted florida wrote, that Peyton would contact the authorities after such a strange and frightening experience but the flip side of that coin is ironically, it was not peyton who contacted the police but the damn Cottingham who was the owner of the rope and the knife in the tarp key loss, very little time and contacting police- and this is because he was drive, his father's vehicle right so win comes home without his father's vehicle, because his this person, that he picked up made off with the vehicle. He contacts, the police and says: hey. Someone Oh my father's car and here is a story or my version of the story, as it goes. Unfortunately soon
after David patent reached fort myers. Florida he's picked up and arrested for the stolen vehicle so now he's telling police what happened that night and day I believe peyton store dan caught. He reports his father's car a stolen on the on that same night and he his story was very different. he said that the theft happen when he stopped on the side of the road and he went to relieve himself now: Initial background check of day in kurdistan reveal that here, was an unemployed licensed practical nurse who had previously worked. charlotte regional medical center. He had formerly served the military until being discharged He was currently living with his parents in point a gourd, so they didn't believe David peyton story, patents, defence attorney at the time told him to take the floor,
he or he was going to be risking more time in prison. So with no support on her. side, David Peyton pled, guilty to vehicle theft and was sentenced to two years in prison. For now, we fast forward to may of ninety. Ninety six gave a patent still all incarcerated tells authorities hey. I know who committed the haug trail murders. It's the same person that pick me up a year before took me to a road, not while travel, and told me that he wanted to take nude pictures of me tied up and, of course, he's not able to identify, I the man by name I'm guessing, maybe even on this phone call, he certain not able to identify the person driving the vehicle that night as it happened. But when you later, please Eighty two stealing the car you know filed the police report so, of course police that man's name from the police report
that stolen mercury, which ended up, leading them to Daniel qana, hand, junior bright, and you have to remember where he jumped into the driver's seat and drove off to escape, where they claim that you stole the go from was only a few miles from one that dumping sites where they found all those bodies, paralysis think for a second, how bad that would suck you you get in the car you issue the car, but you get the car. You took some drugs they're doing some stuff to you. This guy's acted strange he's talking to you about taking pictures. of you knew tied to a tree is a knife in his car that you get stock, you jump in the driver's seat. You take off you the arrested the capital and believe you and now you're, sentenced to two years in jail. I mean maybe you'd feel lucky at that point like luke could have been murdered and then you would think at some point that this person, after the situation happens,
Then kind of sees different things in the news that would make him believe that he escaped death yeah. After all, it was it was he the inmate, the contacted police and said hey. I know who I think did this and then you know, let's go back to some of the other unique details of these cases. You know we have. Least who are working these as they are in fact connected dude the unique nature of the homicides and the fact that, They believe an have proof of the victims being tied to a tree tide. naked to a tree and then strangled the police are reviewing similar, a soul reports from the recent past, and we talk about this so many times when we cover cases like this, an unsolved pieces of zero offenders, you'll have to remember in the cases that are solved, it's not something that happened
in every single case, but it happens often in sometimes it's not until guys already in hand sir, are already on trial or even after the fact that he gets locked up. But often we find the one who got away rang gosling. There is usually somebody who got away the though managed to survive a serial killer and their are able to give us great insights into the other attacks. It happened on victims that weren't so lucky, so once to report, if, in fact, police were looking for one that got away or similar types of crimes they come across this report there is, from August fifteen ninety ninety four, so it falls into our general timeline right. The ninety four ninety six seems to be the the span of concern here,
and I have a very kind of basic version of the story, but I'll go through what I have here. Captain says stanley burden was a high school dropout who had difficulty keeping a steady job the assault report indicated that burden met dan hand who offered to pay him one hundred to one hundred fifty dollars to pose for nude photographs burden agree. In cardiff and drove him to a rocky dirt road in a secluded area where cod, pulled out a duffel bag with a tarp and uphold camera. The two men, headed into the woods, were caught him laid the tar bow and asked burden to take off his shirt. After taking numerous pictures of burden caught a hand then took out a new package of clothes line, so he could get some bondage pictures. He asked burden to step closer to a nearby tree
and then clipped the clothes line and several pieces draping them overburdened to make it look like bondage qana hand, moved behind burden snapped the rope too. italy around him, pulled his hands behind the tree, places ropes around his legs and chest and wrap the rope twice around burdens. That hand then performed a sex act on burden and attempted to sodomize him after many unsuccessful attempts conakry. snapped the rope around burdens, neck places, foot against the tree and on the rope in an attempt to strangle burden who tried to slide on the tree to keep his windpipe open caught a hand hit burden in the head. This dude is absolute savage em and he is a sick, ass, o b. Eventually he
up on this attack caught a hand seems to get frustrated as the two were struggling back and forth in the woods, and he gives up on this attack and leave the area, but here This man tied up to the tree right now Who knows how long he would have been there the way the bird describes it. It sounds to me like heedless you ve? That is leaves mid struggle. Who knows? I wasn't? air and again, this is a brief. Description- may be caught a hand, thought he had successfully choked guided after your using the rope, but regardless we know ends up happening. Is this burden? Guy gets extremely lucky that carnahan left something at the scene. It was like a set of pliers or something it somehow in a struggle he was able to reach these ply. I don't know if he used his his foot to grab them off the ground.
But he is able to use these pliers to help pry himself loose from the rope and from the tree and he he managed to escape with his life. in that way now is uncertain to me what what is unclear through all of this is they have this assault report that was filed by this individual by stanley burden, but I'm curious, if that, because we're reading it after the fact that they retro actively apply dan damkina hands name to this report. Seems like continent, that have been arrested in charge with something knowing that he filed this police report, but it doesn't seem like that ever happened, so it's very like, that. This victim stanley burden didn't know the man and who pick them up and who try to kill him there in the woods.
Yes, so, even though he didn't know em, so you gonna say hey well, it was john John there were able to have him. Identify who is able to attend why they encounter hand through a police lineup. If you had the chance to be brought back to life hundreds of years in the future, would you take, it wonder, is new podcast frozen head, hosted by ashen alina of the hit show morbid, tells the true story of lawrence pilgrim. A lifelong scientist who plan for death his entire life, because for him death wasn't the end. It was just the beginning.
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Captain now remember our inmate david Peyton, who called police says hey. I know who killed richard Montgomery. They hear his story. They are aware that while we charge you with stealing I'm gonna hands fathers vehicle. So we do, that you know this individual or spent you know some deal it with them. Even if you were in fact guilty of stealing the car or if you say what happened happened, they can clearly connect the dots between painting and Dan COD, now. What happens here is there, like? You know what we better double check every thing before we really start investigating this guy have other people mentioning damkina hands, name to law enforcement as well. In regard to richard Montgomery's murder, they hook peyton up to a lighted sector test. He passes the test, and so with that
They decide: hey, that's enough for investigators to put a tail on Dan Cottingham. They want to start there negation, but they're, going to sir Dan d Ancona for some time before before they take, they invest, in any further was smart on law. Enforcement's part: two: hey, we don't know if we should believe I must give him a polygraph unless they give us some kind of barometer of if we, can trust him or not. Yet they're gonna use that information to start to tail damkina hand, and they start by owing to the congo, where he shared living space with his father and public order and the detectives the discover very quickly that he has some erratic driving behaviors he's always driving. He often pulled you turns he stopped on side streets and parking lots. They wondered if he was
Where did they were trailing him or if he just did these types of maneuvers, because he would worried that somebody may be tailing him I like not necessarily any awareness is somebody is in fact doing it brain, but as adjusting case, so they decide very quickly that they're gonna put a tracking device on this vehicle in fact, soon after they received david pay. Information police began monitoring dan caught and a mobile device was placed on that vehicle. They say Every time he left his house, we had said cars bracket and him you are one of the best tips I've ever heard from law enforcement is, if you think so, my phone, you do for left, turned off right turns they had Dan damkina hands home under twenty four hour surveillance, with both human
balls on the team, as well as video cameras, sir veiling, this condo, where he lived out with his parents at all times, they say that they surveyed him fifty days and they had to supper instances when they had undercover detectives who posed as homeless man who stood on this, of u s, forty one and while they were wearing a wire dan actually approached these two men and asked them up We're going to have them pose for nude pictures in the woods. Ah ha ha ha ha feels like a got him a moment
some more details about that is. One detective said that he was asked if he was into modelling and Dan told him that he liked to take photos with the theme of progressive bondage, and then we have a second undercover detective that put himself incontinence path, and he said he too was proposition with cash. If he would pose naked for some pictures now they couldn't get these two under cover detectives. They could never get him to take them to the actual to any place in the woods or out any of these locations. They were hope to have him do that. The interesting thing here two is, if you look at the situation, and you have these five victims, and I know we're talking about a span of of two years or so in which we had these five victims, but with the fifty days of serve
Violence there really hoping to catches. Dude red handed is what it tells me. and unfortunately that means that based off of the crime scenes and how decompose some of their victims were they likely didn't have much in the way of physical evidence against Dan Cottingham. They were able to trace some of that fibre, evidence that they had in some paint chip evidence that they had found at the crimes and on some of the murdered victims back to I'm gonna hear back to the vehicle that he was using and back to the home that he shared with his parents right. So that gives us some kind of physical evidence the other troubling thing they were able to subpoena dan kind, hands, credit card records and they were able to see his purchases His purchases are lining up with some of these stories of of what people called in maine
stanley burden story, then also David peyton story where they got credit card, statements showing the damn conniston purchase, crook, close line, rope, polaroid film, ply there's a utility knife. This off. In the area, and they also found that he was using atm machines located close to the areas where he was positioning these men and picking them up. He does a how to give them the money, but he might need to show them the money correct. So Not only does he have this kill kit, but he has the tools of the trade to also document the kill and then also like you said they. They aid him to have the money on hand. So he could show these individual hey. I got the two hundred dollars so armed with all of these statements of the witnesses, the lead up to the richer montgomery murder and then the two statements of the individuals that survived.
Dan caught a hand and that physical evidence and these credit card statements in atm statements. This is for them to make an arrest, they arrest him and they are going to charge him with the assault on stanley burden. and also the murder of richard Montgomery, ultimately, these stanley burden case the the assault case, they dropped the charges. On that case, in I think it's a rather complicated matter and we we still have quite a bit to get too so I don't want to go through the details of that. People are certainly welcome to find those on they are now while they are awaiting trial for Dan Carnahan. Another skeleton was in charlotte county ten months late dna identified. The remains as a one, william charles patten, who disappeared,
nineteen. Ninety three. So if, in fact this william, charles patten murder, is connected, you damn caught a hand. This would be likely, the earliest one to date in our timeline, this man disappeared and ninety. Ninety three at this point in our time on captain, bringing up murder charges against the sky only for one martyr, that being of richard Montgomery right for other vic that we believe, are connected to dance Cottingham, but three of them still hadn't been identified at this point by that they go to trial against this guy
what they believe is a serial killer and like what you're, stating the other day, that some of these victims were put out there and then once they were discovered, then another victim was put out there. So we didn't believe that the victims were just all out there. At the same time and law enforcement didn't find them, they were finding the victims, as he was dumping them, but that does not mean because we got miles of wooded area that doesn't mean that they found all the victims that could be connected to this. Like I said, psychopath psychopathic cure it would take a couple years, but in nineteen ninety nine damkina Hannah was found guilty if found guilty on first degree, pre met it did murder charges and kidnapping an end number of ninety nine. He was sentenced to death. He is currently still alive and he is being held at the union, correctional institution and re for
in florida and if you look him up online, the the one of the first sentences and first paragraphs that will come up is that he is convicted of one murder but suspected in six plus murders. Now, depending on who you talk to, that number can vary to a great degree, Three, that's because several more bodies were discovered in the charlotte county area was similarities to the haug trail killings. There was one victim found in two thousand to victims, found into
a thousand and one an additional one, founded two thousand and two. Now that's going to lead us up to this horrific discovery which took place on march twenty third, two thousand and seven. This is when eight skulls and skeletal remains were found in a wooded area in fort myers. This is reported to be the largest such discovery in the state of floored is history, and you had references captain, an episode one where this case has some things that reminds one of the west mesa body pit or the long island serial killer case right. What happens in the discovery of all
these bodies. While we can get the details straight from an article that is titled fort myers police seek clues in deaths. The skeletal remains of eight people were found in a wooded area about twenty five feet, from an unpaid section of arcadia street in east for myers. So to give one some perspective of distance here, I dont have the exact locations of war you're the first five victims were found, and then we have a sixth potential victim that is found leading up to contacts trial. We have or other victims that are found in the early part of the two thousands, and then we have eight that are discovered together. These eight hour
are discovered in a relatively small space, but it could be upwards of twenty to thirty miles from where some of the other bodies were found and keep in mind these. These eight bodies are being discovered but over ten years after damkina hand was arrested young. So these deaths have been worked as a homicide. The eight of them and they believe police believe this to be a body damp location. In fact, it was somewhat obvious early on. We have a quote here from one of the officers involved that says it certainly sounds like a dump site. But having said that, You would now have to determine whether they were murdered and dumped killed at that low key. vision and left there or just bodies,
legally disposed. One could make an argument that these are connected to the other victims. Either you make a strong argument that they're not- and this is probably the working of it tiredly different serial killer just in the same area, while in that's where we kind of find ourselves left here in this case, because many people that argue that these eight skeletons that were found together. These victims will go to be known as the fort myers eight that they are all just other victims of Dan hand. Right he's the easiest one to go. Well, he was active,
in this area an active believed to be about the same time that maybe some of these victims went missing guy was we could put a time period on on the deaths, because that would give us a sense of if these were before or after the victims. Well, that's interesting here captain, because what we have here there is some kind of its it's really sad information, because in the first set of bodies that are found that we covered extensively there, fill some of those victims that are unidentified of this fort myers. Eight I've seen reports that three of them have been identified. I've seen reports that only two of them have been identified.
The the more concrete information that I have in front of me, is that two were later identified as men who disappeared in nineteen ninety five, which would certainly fall into the damn caught a hand. Time line that we were working with with his sister other suspected bright victims, which we should say others suspected victims, because They caught again, of course, was spoken to very quickly. After the discovery of these bodies, it wasn't lost on policing Hey. We have a known serial killer, that's locked up! That may be right. honourable for these additional murders and yeah He has a life sentences, possibility that come forward and confess as possible. The problem, We d ancona hand is he's, he's only convicted of one martyr he suspected of many more obviously he's
were admitted to even the one that he's been convicted for brain he's admitted to kill. zero people and the amount of de composition and evidence loss due to time and whether and other comes as well. It doesn't appear that the police have any evidence to connect, damn car a hand to the fort myers ate. My problem with the fort myers. Eight is that they're they're buried in shallow graves. They say what less than two feet: nope less than two inches or of dirt, the alison two inches of dirt, so that this is doesn't go with the signatures of his other crimes, the problem with the signatures of his other crimes, though, is those signatures are, are not there's no way of knowing so the
right that the bearing of the body necessarily isn't it. You can look at it as a potentials, signature or as a potential m o, which are two very different things, but it could fall, either one of those categories based off of the psychology of the killer, but because we don't know the killer and can't say certain it's hard to really honan on that psychology, so that the problem with with looking at natures and comparing them from Richard Montgomery too. the fort myers. Eight brain is this skeletal remains his signatures. Damkina hands signatures, as they were on victim richard Montgomery, are all based off of theirs being skin very true on our victim, where you can see the ligature marks where we can see that there were a portion of the body amputated or removed, cut off right. None of that
is available for us too, to view or eat. Speculate on. In regard to the fort my because they're all skeletal remains the problem is, I don't think we can look at the situation and say no can't be dayan Cottingham, because the signatures don't match the the issue being when we talk about bill worrying somebody in two inches of dirt. One we don't know how long they ve been their police of outwardly said that this could see. Billy be due to flooding in the area or changes in the area, for time that may be necessarily, they were just left on the ground and These changes occurred due to the passing of time right. The other thing that they point out that the officers they do believe that the fort myers were in fact buried in these shallow graves. If, if we were to call it that that's how it referred to
Some of the news, articles and reporting on this case, but I think that paints a whole totally different picture than what police say that they saw the scene at the scene of the fort myers. Eight there saying that They would even go as far too calling it bearing. somebody more as somebody just took the time to throw some, leaves and sticks over top of the bodies, we're leaving the area yeah, but it's it's also different in the sense of the other victims are not found in a cluster, might like these. Victims are, or, as close, of a cluster, as these victims are year with John doe, one four and five and obviously foreign five were later identified. I would call that body cluster. I believe it was Gary ridgeway, the green
we're killer, who refer to some of his kills anne and where he left remains as body clusters. This to me with the fort myers. Eight, that's that's eight people. altogether in one location, who's to say that wasn't spreading out at some point The other thing to is the huge you could look at it as if he did all of these well Maybe he was evolving or devolving. Whichever way you want to look at it, maybe his evolved to something else or devolved that he was getting lazier with how he was choosing to conceal the bodies brain there. The flip side. Of that, though, you still have the possibility, because we don't know who these victims are, because we don't know who is in fact responsible. You could have had Tuk killers working at approximately the same time with simmer similar victim ology. You could have a copycats situation,
Now it's been reported that, with the fort myers a again many of them still to this day, not identified, but they put the possible span of murders from as early as eighteen, eighty, seven and one or two maybe, as late as two thousand and one, which is super scheme, because we know that caught a hand, was locked up and ninety ninety six. So if, if this again is all speculation they're, not basing any of this off of scientific fact. But let's say this speculation, is correct in one or two of these murders happened that late well They include a hand, was already locked up and incarcerated at that time, so he couldn't have been responsible for those Later murders and therefore make it even much more difficult to believe him to be responsible for any of the fort myers eight, where
Dan as we have the psychopath in jail for life convicted of one martyr. Now, if you put all the victims that they found together that they don't have to me in jail responsible for that eighteen victims and anne and we ve both said, I think you'd make a strong argument that all of them are connected and whether you wanna put the they ate other fort Meyer in you're. In there there is a strong argument, I think either way. Moray and wit, one situation I mean you look at John doe number five, whose identified as richard montgomery and John doe, for who is identified as Kenneth smith. Well, those two victims are found. Fifty yards apart from one other one was killed the day before he was found in one was killed just weeks before he was found and that's very deep.
Called to say. Well, whoever did killing of richer, Montgomery, didn't kill. Kenneth smith is you you would have who go out of your way to be able to prove that rain. I think what what me that shows is the difference in degree of what they were able to work with in their investigation with richard Montgomery. He was killed so shortly before he was found. They were able to piece together a series of events that made a court room only deliberate for less than thirty minutes. Before sentencing this guy to death, where the case that happened just weeks before richer montgomery's, death and murder, that of kenneth there's so much evidence already lost time just weeks prior that one lou is very little confidence in all these other murders that likely
happen months or maybe even a year or two before that of richard Montgomery. Now one piece of good information or good news anyway occur last year. When authorities I was in July of two thousand and twenty one day you in genetic genealogy, they have in fact positively identified one more of the unidentified victims. Here. This is more than twenty seven years after his mutilated in decomposed body, was found in a wooded area of south florida. They say now John doe number one, one Thirty one year old gerald who went by jerry, anthony lambard, so now they ve defied John doe number one, and now they are tasked with trying to connect him to his alleged
the you should be anywhere where you choose to be right here and we think colonel ribbon recommended reading for the beautiful listener today, we will be recommending buggy man by Stephen jackson, bogey man. He was every parents nightmare. This is the true story of a detective that refuse to let some cases go cold. He tracked down a serial killer and put him behind bars check out even Jackson's great book, bogey man. You can find that great title and many other wonderful recommendations on our recommended page, a true crime garage doc
yeah, I'm gonna write a book called booger man I'll be out next year. Until then, good, be kind and don't let.
Transcript generated on 2023-01-25.