« True Crime Garage

The Mall Murders ////// 43

2016-08-02 | 🔗

The Mall Murders ////// 43 TrueCrimeGarage.com Boca Raton, Florida 2007; Multiple attacks are occurring in the Town Center Mall parking lot. To the victims the attack starts off as what might appear to be a simple carjacking or a robbery but after the lone gunman is in the vehicle what follows is terrifying. Law enforcement is very aware that they have a very violent and deadly criminal at large and he is using the mall parking lot to trap his victims but are they dealing with a serial killer? Get in the garage as we kickoff season 3. Beer of the week- HoneyMaker Blueberry Mead by Maine Mead Works Garage Grade- 4 out of 5 bottle caps

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
I am june diane ratio and I'm jessica, saint clair, and where the host of the deep died todd cat now, just you and I spend every week talking about mother products. We love grieve, it's basically of girls, night weird, you don't even have to wear pants and honestly we're having a lot of fun doing. We hope you join us on the deep die, listened to the deep diamond sticker apple pie, cats or wherever you're listening to this now this spring transform your outdoor space into a regular gathering place for you and your loved ones, with help from actually whether you into wicker, teak or driftwood inspired furniture. We ve got the look you're going for
at an accessories like string lights and beverage tub to take your patio party from basic to curated and enjoy cosy evening vibes with a new fire bit visit, ashley dot com or start by your local store and find affordable pricing and expert support today. Shop and save today only it actually. the the.
Welcome to true crime garage wherever you are whatever you were doing. Thanks for I'm your hosts, nick and with me every week my friend in yours doktor feel good. The captain. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It's good to be seen and is good to see you welcome to season. Three captain welcome, welcome back do we get a break now we did not get a break I'm over here, looking like Michael J fox when he turns into the teen wolf or our let's get to some gibs judith Claire Angela, morgan robber and Brooke. That is just a few people that have been to the website recently to download old episodes like the cut of your jib. That goes a long way to supporting the show. So if you want an old episode or the bonus episode, tony muncie go to true, pram garage dot com goes a long way to support the shell,
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This is true crime garage, and this is the case of the more murders than you've killed. The man who killed the boys to take out money, the gm shot to death, the police started across the country for the man who killed a powerful woman and her daughter was still no justice for Nancy. Go kick his family on the fifth anniversary of the martyrs or anything at all. Please please give me the confidence that we do have that if we can identify that we can protect you, that the investigation has taken police to new york, atlanta, philadelphia and tampa, but key evidence such as the gun used in the shooting was never recovered. This sketch is the only image ever released of a possible suspect, Nancy and Joey bulkier were abducted from the Boca Raton town center mall parking lot on december, twelfth two thousand and seven. These are the last images taken of them walking out of the mall and killed the man. You killed, shot to death the forced to take out money, the gm and shot to death, the more than nine hundred leaves the
bert, twelve, thousand and seven. This is both a in florida, now buckler in Florida is quite the wealthy, affluent neighborhood an area very crime rate and nanny, bulky he'll has taken her daughter to the mall. That's a tough name, say three times ass well they're at the ball, they're doing some shopping, one could assume maybe even some shopping for the upcoming christmas season and get for the holiday this broad daylight captain. This is around three o clock in the afternoon the two of them leave behind my when I go shopping, that's when women, after dissolve is major purchases so nancy kiki is leaving the mall with her daughter joey, who was seven years old around three in the afternoon and their heading out to the parking lot they're going to go to their vehicle and their driving a black suv. They to get into the vehicle, and now some of the details of this crime.
Were unaware of, but we can make some assumptions. That's every case who cover we can make some assumptions and we know some things that took place it from what the cigarette. Her saw after the fact at some point She must Nancy must have found a man in her vehicle or standing outside of the vehicle rain You know one would assume this is going to be a simple car jacking, maybe she's, driving a nice black suv in an affluent area. Somebody's come to take her car. Well, that's not the key. Ass, the man once inside the vehicle- and he wants to take action, of the situation he's, got a gun, and he is making orders he's calling the shots going to order nancy but kiki oh to go to a nearby atm this atm is within blocks of the shopping mall when get the atm he's going to have her four or five hundred dollars. Now, that's to be Nancy's tm limit for that day,.
After receiving the five hundred dollars the vehicle is gone for approximately an hour, police, are able to later determine that they have. I witnesses that would later see that vehicle matching nancy's vehicle description, returned to the shopping mall parking lot within about our of three o clock when they and they went on this trip well vehicle they would later. Fine security officers would find this vehicle around midnight. Now vehicles running and they come up to the vehicle. They open up the door and the the guard is shocked by what he said. He in two lifeless bodies the body of a child in the body of presume, lay the child's mother yeah not just lifeless bodies but thereby to the chairs yet They find zip ties Both of the victims, they have zip ties. Their hands there as well,
their feet, and the woman's neck to the headrest of the the backseat branches and there's different sizes of zip ties so either it's multiple zip ties put together or it's just the big zip ties the strange thing I found here's one report says that the door was open. Which is odd. It's almost like somebody would have stumbled upon it earlier or I don't know how many could have been cracked, a lobe that I don't know how this vehicle shows back up in the parking lot at four, for thirty p m. It's not discovered into almost midnight and the doors, open or, like you said, just cracked, but would net cases that that's gonna leave that dome light on, but at four o clock slide out anyway, so if you can see into the car, you can see into the car, of course, a security guard. He calls the authorities the authorities arrive and they describe they see what we just described. The two victims are bound and
been shot to death Not only are they bound, but there also wearing strange goggles. when his place goggles on both of the victims and they have blacked out the blind of the goggles there some keys that they are able to figure out in this crime? Ok, what One being that the victim, the mother, or somebody inside the car? Presumably the mother had called nine one one and there was no answer when the operator picked up and they were on the phone. For very short, there was no answer and a quick hang up after the police when they find the bodies in the vehicle. This is a chrysler. Aspen s, feet. Ass, you ve, they find it the parking lot at the town centre. Boca written town centre mall, both of them comes, had been shot point blank, the mother Nancy. She has on a pair of broken toy handcuffs, so there
some kind of struggle going on in this vehicle which may have I too, to the demise of both of the victim yet in in me on the ideas, toy toy handcuffs right. Are they plastic are they just the kind that we are talking about the other week where their actual hancock but they're like the trick ones where you can get out of a pretty easy yeah yeah. I I would imagine there. Probably the actual metal toy handcuffs but remember they had that release on them somewhere that if you couldn't, if you couldn't- the key or or or if you wanted to look like you're pulling off a magic trick? You would hit the release while your friend held the key oh, I got out of a man in the release is kind of small, so nobody says it's broken and they specifically said that there were broken so be there, our plastic and she does programme apart on bet. I would bet you that they're probably metal, but because they are toy hancock
that their made out of a cheaper metal, probably the chain itself as a cheap chain metal, and I dont the chain portion was broken or if the actual cuff one of the copse were broken but they did described the the handcuffs that were on the mother as broken this crime obviously ended up having a huge impact on the community, huge impact on the shopping mall and it went, the story went nation wide. There are look, for whom this person could be. They were checking out the surveillance cameras, the surveillance tapes could see the mother and the daughter walking in the parking lot, but they did not pick anybody getting into the vehicle for or or abducting the mother and daughter This is the third of three attacks you're exactly right this. This was in not only the third but very reminiscent of the two previous attacks, so the first attack took place, was two years earlier now this was
the two year old, randy go and burke. She was at the bulk of it, on town centre. Em, all the same, the same exact mall, and she was leaving them all. This is again in broad daylight and she is presumably carjacked now Bout she seen coming out of the mall around one fifteen p m, so the got tapes of her they have to of her leaving them all as well, but they don't have any surveillance actually in the parking lot. No there's no camera that witness the car jacket and I wonder if this guy knew this or or how yeah yeah I mean, like you, you're gonna, be making these attacks broad daylight, or these basically jack. It's not that tax right there, but the car jackets. Broad daylight. How do you know that you're not beyond on camera yeah exactly he may have had some insider information or had had previous knowledge of where they are picking up. This footage, I've always thought to that. You know when you go shopping. Typically spent
if you have an s, u v or van or hatch back. What are you naturally do your walk to your vehicle? You get close, you hit the button, so you unlock the car and then you open up there. Act and put your items in well now the vehicle was unlocked and now still outside of the vehicle. I always wondered: if that's win win some, like randy, would have been taken right. There been been with a gun in her face or grabbed pulled into the vehicle or is swear this man or man or whoever did this finds a way into the vehicle within that that few seconds yeah, as somebody gets into their vehicle your kind of doing something you not paying attention that much still your surroundings, if you're putting bags in you are but You opening up your driver side door to slip in that when somebody could slip and right behind you done to them the head to make move
and we ve all heard the old urban legend error, the old fear of everybody. Do you look in the back seat of your car? I will, when you get about us on a previous of authority, you pig through the window. You know to see if there's anything in there. If it's a situation of wooden really matter. If you saw somebody in their not because what we're talking about somebody that using those, though few seconds to either get into your vehicle or to abduct you and pull you into the vip. What I'm saying is, if I'm getting into my car- and I see somebody in there- get it in, and that gives me enough time to get away, especially in this attack because she's by herself. She habit child with her approximately thirty minutes later right go and burg is seen being pushed from her suv, the passenger side door and she has been shot now the ever was driving the vehicle had drove
vehicle for about thirty minutes, and we know this because a nine when one somebody called nine one one and said that they had heard what sounded like two gunshots and then he had seen a body pushed out of this vehicle and the drove off now the the location of where randy pushed out of the vehicle. proximately six miles from the shopping mall and then later police would find the vehicle abandon and a home depot parking lot, which was about two miles north where her body was pushed out of the vehicle, and there was no atm activity yes, she didn't even have an atm card on her. So if, if This is linked to this other case that we just spoke about. Who knows what took lace during that thirty minutes, and that's what police really want to figure out. Where did they go? Was there any attempt at an atm withdrawal?
she didn't have a card on her, but you know the pile she could have a card honour that was taken, the betrayed or would not have known if she was telling the truth or not so wheat. So I would imagine some kind of argument ensued, trying to figure if she's lying, if she just protecting her money or whatever. Probably you know, but she she is found with a nice bracelet on very nice diamond ring. I think a wedding ring yeah yeah, they list is expensive, diamond ring, a diamond necklace, and cartier watch everybody knows. Cartier is one of the more expensive watchmakers of these items were not taken, but the heavy shoes on that her shoes and they her purse so the purse was missing. The shoes were missing. I believe she was wearing like puma shoes, so nothing like super crazy, expensive there,
but for whatever reason the shoes and and purse were were missing. I brought the pumas again here. Captain we're seeing the same area of tat, same shopping, mall, blackest, you ve, all we're not seeing the same. This is the first one. She sheep right by this in comparison to write a third attack and she, mercedes benz as you via black one, and you brought up a very nice car. You brought up a good question earlier when we're talking is how do you know if she had an atm card or not? We can only assume, because there was no atm withdrawal, and maybe she had told vocally, told people that she doesn't have an atm card or a relative thousand and seven most people at an atm. Most people, especially people living in Boca, Raton and an officially year old, successful woman, but I just a point out here that the similarities of the two of this first case and the third case, as we have the black suv. The same, opting mall and female driver, female driver, you're exactly right and
because some some of these assailants war will go. They will target female or somebody that they believe they can easily overpower or gang troll of while we know this attack, her has a gun, yellow he's overpowering anyway, that doesn't have a gun exactly that the details of the third attack and the first attack that could be done. Together? The key here is: why are we waiting to discuss the second attack and and discuss them out of order, while there's quite a bit more or information regarding the second attack and wood. to that right. After a quick, this fathers they find a perfect where the dad who loves the perfect yard right now say fifty dollars on the steel efficacy. Fifty seven battery trimmer set setting includes essay. Fifty seven battery german plus the a k, tin battery and El wanna one charger offer only one hundred and forty nine dollars and ninety nine cents real steel find you
steel dealers that come what may nine ninety nine emma s s our pe offer ballot through six eighteen, twenty three, it participating dealers while supplies last. I am june diane ratio and I'm just like a saint clair and where the host of the deep died todd cat. No just you and I spend every week talking about mother products. We love grieve, it's basically of girls, night weird, you don't even have to wear pants and honestly we're having a lot of fun doing. We hope you join us on the deep die, listened to the deep diamond sticker apple pie, tat or wherever you're listening to this. Now this spring transform your outdoor space into a regular gathering place for you and your loved ones, with help from actually whether you into wicker, teak or driftwood inspired furniture. We ve got the look you're going for,
at an accessories like string lights and beverage tub to take your patio party from basic to curated and enjoy cosy evening vibes with a new fire bid, visit, Ashley, dot com or start by your local store and find affordable pricing and expert support today shop and save today only it actually beer break brings us two august- seventh, two thousand and seven now this is the same situation. This is the second attack and what is zuma, bleak three attacks and a series and it's got some similarities here. We have a woman. We have a mother and the mother driver and work call her jane doe. She is leaving the town centre mall with her two year old son again they are driving a black suv. They walk through parking lot they get to their vehicle, she places or sun in the back seat. She goes around to the back. She opens up the hatch and she puts the items.
purchase into the back of the vehicle before she can get into the driver's seat she confronted by a man who is now sitting in the back seat with her son. Rightly slip then get any got he's, got a gun and he's going to start calling the shots he tells her. You are To do what I tell you to do or your son is going to die. She it's an and now she's going to have to drive to an atm, He has our drive to an atm, that's about a block away from them all, Her son is to write correct so, son is too you don't open, the door. You help him in yet socio opens up the door, helps a man probably not in the back seat at that moment, he puts them in the car sea and then when she goes back round- and I just assume that that's how he's doing it every time I think you're exactly rise timing. It perfectly so, like I said before, if you're put
your bags in the car. Will you see the car you if europe opening up the hatch back or whatever, specially suv, you open up that back, you see the lay of the land, but when giving in to your driver side. You not really paying attention so he's to slip in right when they yeah and you kind of heavy like ample time they're right, because if you got a strap the kid in two to the seat, we're gonna see he's gonna be sitting in strap a man put the but the purchases in the back there so got some time to get into this vehicle know what I'm saying is now as if she puts it hid in the car sea and then whose background and open up the hatch back. She would be able to see the guy in the car the door open to write. So he is time in it right when she's opening her drivers sighed, she I'm saying I see what you're saying or your exactly I mean unless, unless he, unless he's ducking down when one of these breakin into the cars
calm down early. I mean would think she would see him crouched down there between those who rightly see crowded tiger hidden dragon waiting for I think, it's maybe more after strapping in the sun and then walking towards the back that maybe he's he slipping out as if she's in the back and opens up the hatch back. She sees him unless he crouched down at this point. Now he's crash entire here dragon that while we don't know how he's doing it but he's into this vehicle and he's taking control of her. By having control of the sun threatening the sun's life, while the controls come from the gun it well. but this is a very different hostage situation than than what some people will find themselves in. Yeah they different because there's a kid involved. Yet you a two year old boy, you you're, not you're, not the one. With the gun pointed at you, this Is your sons? Life is in your hands, you're going to do what I tell you to do before I'm in control of this situation here in the back seat, an hour
make you drive to the atm machine, which is like we set about a block away. They get there and she withdraws six hundred dollars now? I don't know if this was multiple transit, actions, but we do know that an amount of six hundred dollars was withdrawn there. They said it's her limit, you now, but like some people, have a withdrawal limit period for the day and then some people, you know poor fred Murray and they just go to like ten different atm because they have a limit per atm ranching cod in Fred Murray, but so maybe he thought we could go to another atm, but the report, I read was she does had a max limit. She could only withdraw from the atm six hundred a day, and that was for kennedy reasons can cause it she probably not. Somebody carries around the law, a cash well, and we saw with the other attack that that person had a five hundred dollar limit and had met their limit as well. So
instances where seeing where the killer is, is getting them to go to the atm machine and withdrawing the limit and then at some point. This is where things are going changes where he his emma was going to change from now. I've got the money to what do I do with these witnesses. So after he gets the money he places her in the back seat. The mother and at this point he's using those zip ties that we talked about and he, binding her hands, binding the legs and he puts like sunglasses, that he's put some kind of duct tape or some kind of tape, dark tape on the lenses. So she, not see out of these sunglasses at point he would go any. Would change these sunglasses to the black gag? said we had seen and in the other crime with it were black, as well,
now I don't know if this is because he doesn't want to see the victim's eyes, I'm or or if he doesn't want them. Looking at him, I'm not really certain at this point shy a little bit of both is probably you know your. She would have seen him by this point. Obviously, but now she can't see- and hopefully may maybe he's wandering- that that the amount of terror that's going on and in only seeing him for a brief period of time might make him lesson, less memorable to her the entire time the mother is trying to identify with the attacker with the doktor and really humanize herself and her son, planing. You know how old her son is he's only two years old and how He means to her and how they I family and they have loved ones, she's, reminding them of that they are people that they they are innocent people and did you know the kind of pudding humanizing themselves in his mind in making
harder for him to vic my them she might be doing this cautiously or subconsciously. Yeah could just be an instinct or Where are our quickly action yeah yeah, but for whatever reason it may have worked, because at some point she says did he told her. Yes, I can see that you got a good boy here. You got a good sought, and he would return the vehicle about our so later to the town centre parking lot and at this point she is allowed to use her phone to call her husband. Now she's, given very specific instructions on what she's allowed to say and in in how she's allowed to communicate what has just taken place and she's round at this point. Yes, she just like we had seen with the other victims. She Her hands are tied feeder tide. He's black zip ties and
her neck is been zip tied to the headrest of the back seat. And so she does call her husband and she explains that you know you need to come- get us we're locked in our vehicle. And he fleas the area and before he fleas. One of the instruction sheikh he gave to her was you when you too the police about this you're gonna have to give a bad description. You can Tell them what you saw. You cannot tell them what I said and he tells us that you should you're going to describe you're going to say what happened is that I got carjacked by a short chubby black guy nice on what this guy looks like he's, is tall. skinny caucasian possibly hispanic yeah, and we should. We should really commend her help help how brave she is because you know she he's been terrified from from ever
since this day, she's been horrified that something is going to happen to her or happened her son. You know he explain to her before he left the vehicle. He said, I know who you are right he may have looked at her. Photo Id now or he could be talkin rorschach who knows yeah he, but he could have pulled the day that there but dress off of the her driver's license. He could have got her license. Plate number any number of things that led him back to her. If she did follow through with her and of the bargain. Now like it said, captain she does go onto given accurate description of of him and she would say that this this man wore a faux la floppy hat. You know one of those handle it a fisherman's hat yeah that has like the full rim brim around the the whole hat and he's wearing sunglasses. He appears because occasion, maybe hispanic, and he has a hand gun, and
he had war. Well it that you, Had brown, curly, hair and light approximately five inch ponytail on the back so as well, in the pony rock? In the the already in the back with the floppy hat reverent outflow, floppy aunt Jane will she gives this description, and this is the composite drawling goes out to all the media. all the media outlets and the police. Since two thousand and seven sensitive taken taken place, they still not know who this guy is They have not seen a similar attack that there are aware of now have followed up on over two thousand leads while they ve got about two thousand leads, but they're, probably at eight. Ninety per cent of looking into those leads the first that was randy go and bird and
was the the female twenty fifty two years old, leaving them all by herself getting into the black suv. Now very little is known about this attack other than she's driven about six miles away from the shopping mall and body is she's been shot and thrown from the vehicle- and this is the one where the eyewitnesses actually heard shots hurt, heard what I believe to have been reported as two shots fired and then saw the body being pushed out of the vehicle vehicles then found later two miles north of where the body was found in was in a home depot parking lot and again, we have no surveillance of the attack her in the shopping mall, parking lot or the home depot parking lot. The same attack is the Jane doe with her two year old son. That was abducted in black ass, you leaving the town centre mall driven to
de. I am very close to the shopping mall. They withdraw that, so hundred dollars, which is their their limit for the day. And then the mother starts playing hurt case and in an really humanizing herself and her son to the attacker. And for whatever reason he decides to let them go, but before he does, that he's bound them. Terror Is them put them in them I goggles and he said what you are going to tell your husband. This is what you're going to tell police. You know he heat a person that likes to be in control of the entire situation. I think that that's why You see him using a child as part of the abduction makes a lot easier easy to control the adult and then the third attack this the attack, took place in december of two things. in seven this is the one that we don't have him as many details about, because we don't have any witnesses left to tell us about the attacker. But it is.
Varies so similar. It's the same shopping mall it's in daylight, just just like the other two attacks and its black suv, abducted with with the child, driven around they go to atm. They take out the five hundred bucks, that's the daily limit and then some something takes place. You know we know that there was the nine one. One call you know the mother tried to call nine one one and tip them off. He must have he must have seen her phone her hand or saw that heat, she did something with the phone. because I imagine what she was probably trying to do is just call nine one in just let them here what's going on hear him shouting out orders to her. She all is dropped, whether whether she hangs up or he hangs up the phone. We don't know, but they are all Emily found dead, they're both shot point blank and their there
they're bound in that same way, wherewith with the zip tight to than around the neck, keeping the head against the headrest they have them. Broken again. We have, broken handcuffs here so there was definitely a struggle in the situation which makes it clear a bit different, in my opinion, from four earlier situation where he had abducted, the mother. child and it didn't in the same way there there didn't seem to be as much fight back. There was a different kind of fight back by humanizing ourselves in and telling about our families and telling about our son in it. It is a defence. You know- and I am sure the other mother did everything that she could do as well, unfortunately we should try to combine one one, and unfortunately, this this is upset man to the point where he, where he is a total jerk and kills these people
innocent people that he's abducted and parking, because the mom and the daughter. So what are the similarities in all three of these well? Obviously, the shopping mall and in their all, this all took place within a two year time period so we're talking about you know next. The time period, whereas we got two years, we got female driver three situation female driver. We have all three are black ass. She reads: that's pretty much it yet. Well, it's well with the second too. We see the zip ties. We see the goggle now I'm saying what will how connect all three. Actually reforms in I'll start with the three them will break it down to the there. There there's a lot of speculation. If you look on like webs clues, and stuff like that that the first murder had nothing to do with the next to
yeah. Originally they were saying that they believe that that first attack on randy go was the first of the series rain and then later police would say. We don't believed that this was connected. There's no forensic link to lie this crime against randy go and bird to the other. Two attacks now that case we don't have a child involved. In that case, we don't have them going too eight him there I know of and in that case the The car is not left It was taken from it doesn't go back, to the mall. It right It goes to the home depot parasites and then she just dropped off. So that's naming connected to the third one where the The victims are left in the vehicles right, what's interesting, though, is theirs. stuff on the internet. Some speculation, then the internet, reading about saying that they actually found
two men that were using randy's atm card and this the victim people also adamant that she didn't have atm card well. I know I believe that article said that using credit cards right so yeah. Maybe she didn't have an atm card, but hey, but things ill still, robbery, the same rights yet the motive there is money but they killed her, so they killed her over credit card weren't. They credit cards used almost two years later than that they had traced them to some place in Massachusetts. I believe ass late, ass, chooses connecticut area in, and they said that there were two unidentified men, who were using the the credit cards that were in the name of randy, go and buy right, so I guess they got these two individuals on video but nobody's him than ever able
identify them. Correct, I'm guessing that they're, just not from that area, and it was this a trip and then we're gonna use these cards. We're going to have a town that they were down there for for whatever reason and thought they would rob somebody to to. No, no I'm saying I don't think they're from like massachusetts or anything or you think they were going to use them far away but they use them up and mass chooses, so they use not there, but nobody has been able to identify him Well, why have they been able to identify em cause? They live around their exit, they don't want it so that they could have been travelling to florida. Maybe they live in florida. Maybe they who knows where they live, but where that videos shot I haven't seen the video, so could this be really bad video, some people sell these cards to on the black market. Are you sure you can purchase somebody's credit card and with a with a handshake promise that there's money on their that you can access somehow dynamic payment? I wish
more was known about the gun or the bullets. You know that we we have more. We'll victims that were shot. You know To me, review them shot. That to me obviously may be an that's what they mean by no forensic linked to the to the first, it tack that that they can say. realistically, that it's not the same gun, in the first attack and the third attack that doesn't really mean anything could attack could have multiple guns right. He could be. He could, the investigators or saying that that we we have that link. We would know that definitive that it that it probably is the framework so that that's one thing that I would be curious to know more about now. They would come out in two thousand and fifteen. They would release information stating that the zip ties they were able to locate around about area of where the zip ties were purchased and they were all purchased from the miami dade county area, so
and for whatever reason I remember when I first started reading about this case back in two thousand and eight. You know shortly after the after the last attack did for whatever reason they were saying back then to that they believe that this attack, or could be from that miami dade county area I dont know what tipp them off to that in the beginning or why but they are able to kind of confirm that in two thousand fifteen saying that those those items zip ties were purchased the odds of ties and when you look at tradition of where this company distribute their product. I mean that as pre simple source, if they're, not a superpower, does your brand yeah, so these zip ties were purchased in that area, which is approximately a fifty to one hour, drive away from the bocc Boca Raton area. But again it doesn't mean that. The person lives there now because it is, he purchased them there or
or maybe Niven there. I mean that it's two thousand seven. You know their online stores that be can purchase these from his what I'm like, if it just this brand, he could body on amazon for all. We know tat so. turkey, when you have all these different, these different companies that offer different services, and some of them have hubs here and hubs their you know who was where and how that that that stuff, shipped around and sent out could have purchased at one of these big box stores or, like you said it could have been shipped to him. One could be goin off. The idea of a careless try to figure out where these ties come from and then they think out, while they're not really shipped in this general region. So now we're lookin at farther, Alden an hour and then they go to about an hour and a half away and they girl, okay, wanton here's, a store that sells them so but that again, like, as it doesn't mean anything because
that could be living in california and order and for some reason is ordered that same bran online and that's gonna be. trickier. Now is how many cases have you heard that they start finding? these little leads and finding these little better nuggets based on products that they bought well case went national, not only, because of the gruesome menace of the of the crime itself. Brain but all because you now we're seeing a somewhat of some kind of a link to the miami dade county area which which is a larger county, just south of that book. Written area right- and you know we had talked about the credit cards being used up in the new england area and so I mean this. This is a case that debts explain did county lines and its crossed state lines as well with. first cases go back to the first case were quick, the first face to me? I don't I
no that we can say either way if it's connected are not connected to the other two. I think there's enough similarities for me anyway, that that I I want to connect them that I that I hope, there is only one person out there, this terrible doing this the thing that I guess, but first case does somewhat look like a head. Almost where ya does where, where this woman was singled out where maybe this whoever took her knew her and that they may be. took the person. The shoes is, as as a you know, some to cover the crime or two main I'd more yeah, losing. I believe she was originally from new york. So, when I saw that that these were used in massachusetts. To me, it's like well, then, its summit coming down than theirs for some reason on what would the mode of be cause? That's ok, where the ring is still found on her bracelet, the necklace
already a watch. It yet doesn't seem. doesn't seem like a robbery. No But then, if there's these credit cards that were taken then was that all about I buy there, but there was no purse found. So maybe this took that evidence. So maybe I'd, take more take longer for the police to identify her, but then they have I have the car, so no, it definitely makes it more confusing, and actually I gotta believe that in a hit type situation, if she was you know- and I'm not talking about a mafia here- I'm talking about somebody that that. But leaves for whatever reason that they're killing of hers justified did. This is somebody that day they have been wrong by or whatever reason, their settling a score whatever that whoever killed randy Goldberg it was a hit. Type situation I dont believe that they would use those credit cards it would they would be too close to the victim and
easily identified right? I dont think that think it might just be happens. To who knows? I mean TED Bundy used to drive down the road and throw belongings out of his victims just out out of the vehicle window as he's driving just rolled down the window and throw him out piece by piece and who now who picks them up after that through the purse out or when they part the current on depot, they could stolen. Now the car exactly did you seen abandoned car there? Somebody could have to the purse. Maybe the shoes were already off for whatever reason in the car I mean The police really want to figure out what happened in that thirty minutes, because there is no atm visit as far as we aware of what took place During that thirty minutes, they believed that if they had a better idea of where vehicle, went during that time. did they would have an idea of who did this? Who perpetrated this crime the sec? two cases seem I mean those are definitely linked. We
we can say that, because the zip ties theirs to minimise the zip ties, the goggles there's too many similarities and involve us go over area, though black suv, The female driver, the child with child. There is a difference. There's one female child one, Both are smaller children too, but you no one is seven. One is too young children and he'll kill them all and both of them go to them tm. Both are bound. The next bound taking place in broad daylight, and we know that a gun was used in both of these situations as well. We have the black zip ties. Then we have the situation with the handcuffs there. There's no mention of those in the case where the victims survived. So Have we also have a a composite drawing of this criminal right, we we the
Caucasian, maybe hispanic man with the Behalf in the sunglasses and the brown curly hair plant five inch six inch ponytail, I've, one thing that I think here captain is I'd, I think, we're seeing somebody that really has put it. at a time and effort into not being idead, that is really worried about putting on a disguise now but their disguise can't be so blatant because have to lurk around in these parking lots in broad daylight right, so they and put on a big spectacle with this. With this disguise, but but he's got the hat gathers uncle sunglass. So you think that you're wearing a big hat and you weren't sunglasses, protect yourself from the sun and that hasn't sunglasses. Look that's similar to what most of the landscape hers. Where down there, which you would see. You know in parks, in being malls, you would see them tending to the grounds of those areas that I
or to cause you have those hats, the fake ponytail. That's what I was getting that what you know, Maybe I'm gonna where this goofy hat and I were people see the ponytail. So then one have a ponytail yeah. what if you're, really worried about being identified? Would you just took that ponytail up inside the floppy hat? Would but he leaves it hanging out you know, like you said this could be a fake ponytail to throw a freak flag fly exactly. What are we it's different in the cases here, captain, obviously we you know we talked about the differences from the first compared to the second third, but the differences. But we the second and third there so many similarities, but obviously we have a situation where two people survive and then later, there's an attack in two people. Don't survive Now, obviously we have now could be as simple as
told this lady not to say, and if his motive is just money. Well, I got the money I let them go, but now she's reporting, my joy identity to the cops and now it's gone onto. The news is so it's gone on the news. Now I gotta be little more careful can't leave a trace, and then he kills the third Third, it and the third case yet witten well, and that's what I think we see here. You know what you and I are discussed, was there any kind of psychological thing be between there? Be in a month, with the sun or a mother. The daughter I I think so I think there was psychological things being involved there, but it was just that she humanised herself in humanised the sun and really really that point home to the point, Even kind of agrees with her at some point, but but we are also seeing a situation where she's not fought back, you know them.
She didn't, try to call nine when one there was no broken handcuffs or breaking of the binding so that we know of and but but Like you just pointed out. One thing: I think has missed on some people. Here is in this third case. I think was. She was playing from behind the ape all here because, like you said that the last victim was brought, enough to to tell the police what the accurate, actually, look like rain, in a most situations this would probably stop a sane man from from continuing those attacks or continuing them in that same area, while lotta people believed that if all three are connected, that this is actually a serial killer, it needs money or us. of killer that has possibly at drug habit. They, has some reason to fuel. the money for some reason when weathers the fuel, a drug habit or some other kind of vice
It's weird to make, as I dont know doesn't seem to me. Like monies the huge motivation drunk people over five hundred box six six hundred bucks. We could get more money if you rob a gas station or somethin and I agree with you but it, but if you take away if you separate the first crime from the other two, if we could, if we go out on a limb here and say that he this person didn't, do the first crack then it seems a little more likely. The way that this thing played out to me, because you have the bad situation of being you know, the perpetrator. Now you ve been identified. You know you will not identified, but your description has gone out. and now you ve attack these other people and this point and is fighting back in your unable to control the situation. We don't know that that may, that first victim wasn't shot entirely on purpose.
and maybe the second victim was killed, just a cover up just so that there is no witnesses to to the first murdered while maybe- and we ve never seen these- it acts in this area. Again I believe in this in case the boy. On being to play a big factor in this regard, I think, the boy being, does younger and general daughter, and the third case was seven an I still young but sir, but I do think it played a part one it being a boy the baby, be boy indian too. I think that played and also play the poor. I think. depending on what she said to him. I think that played a part as well of course- and I think it's this- the simple fact that he, what felt like he was able to control Situation with the with the jane doe in her son There was no, they didn't
to be a white male attack or so of course, he's gonna done identify with the child that you're old boy more so then the seven year, girl, possibly pass an he. You know a lot of people to skill while he's pickin female drivers so we can control. I dont think that necessarily true either, because you have a gun you can, control. Anybody it more likely that you won't be able to control a single female with a child bs. Possibly right but you have a gun aside. You doing this with a knife for doing it would bear knuckles to control a man just as easy. You could, you could. But we are seeing a behaviour here of somebody that that wants to control the situation and make no. I it is rather ironic, as does he who also there could not some link where he has some hay. Towards women over much so
If I mean you can't pull that trigger without having that in you and Furthermore, I you know does he want these people as they exit their vehicle and go into the shopping mall, to make sure that it's a woman with small child or is he just walking around looking for a car seat? You know of or you know, we don't know the emma. As far as that power goes, we can't see him. walking around in the parking lot getting into the vehicle, But I've always wondered, and I bet I bet you he's scouting the parking lot he's, looking would make more sense. He's looking for an expensive vehicle and maybe he's determine that it needs to be an s you ve for some reason, maybe- give them a little more room if he needs a move around in the vehicle to do things the thai people up. Maybe it has to do with that hatch in the back where people seem to naturally put their belongings when they returned to the vehicle, but yeah I'd, say that he's probably watching the parking lot
at a time and he's probably picking out these these victims, pretend victims before they even go into the shopping mall. There was another case that happen in this area a few years ago but his way different, but it was the same situation where some by was stocking their prey and he followed the people home killing the grandfather of a lady, but it's not connected but same area, same everything Probably they probably thought that it could be connected in the beginning. Right would both be different, because there is no car jacking at the fire. fine, I'm home was a robbery, oh well, once I saw that or read that it wasn't linked dive. two it too much, but it didn't match the district. This.
Option of our suspect anyways. I think this person is probably moved on from the area moved away from the area or was a traveller to begin with. Yeah yeah did meet, there's a reason why these mean these attacks haven't occurred, sense in the same style. You know he may have just simply moved on to a different form of robbery, moved on to a different skies in a different area? Not you in shopping malls, as is hunting ground the sea, like such a weird thing: if this is your way of robbing people, but you said it for five or six hundred dollars, and it's it's seems to me. Even though he's taken a lot of precautions, it seems to me to be very high risk, its broad daylight
a parking lot. He could be seen by multiple people to be seen on camera yet, unless, unless he has, you know some kind of foresight or or knows ahead of time that he can't be seen at that angle or or in that portion of the parking lot but you're right, it's high risk Daylight could be seen on camera in the parking lot could be seen on camera at the tm machines, then leaves some people alive which are He takes a high risk situation in you know it gives an idea tat my final captain is. I think this case is still very solvable, can area it was It was nice nice and refreshing to see that case, for two thousand and seven that there, new information coming out in two thousand and fifteen just last year, so fresh in people's minds and they got some leads on the seven year old victim on the third case. Her name was joey and they have a sure of her. The detectives do
detectives that were working on these cases, they had daughters around the same age. So they really take this case personally and Not going stop, you know, so they have a picture of her to remind them why they're doing their job and they're gonna keep looking yeah. They said that this case is personal and they followed up on over two thousand leaves as of this date, and that day might just need one more they might need one more lead and there follow up on all the leads until they solve this case. going to see something happened. What they're saying I think we're gonna see a break, keeping they have, they have some forensics. You know they obviously have something here, because they are saying that they have things it might not linked the first case to the second and third, so they have some forensics here They have the lead of knowing that these, if ties came from either were shipped or were purchased or distributed from that miami dade county area. So they had that lead so late
and they have a living witness pickup. probably idea the person or be able to tell you, you know hate that? Yes, that's his voice or no that's not his voice. You know They have plenty of stuff to go on here and I think that if they get the right break, if they get the right led this, could be soft torture. gut feeling on. One two and three: are they all connected? Well, got fees Obviously, two and three definitely one hundred connected the first one is a tough one to me. It feels more like a hit. It feels more like a quick abduction. Was somebody trying to get rid of somebody that they possibly knew the other thing. There, though, is it or was that just somebody honing their skills. They didn't really know what they were doing and first situation in it and got kind out of hand, real quick and he couldn't control the situation and in an Basically developing. The idea here is no
I come up with this idea that I'm going rob people arm carjack them at the mall, I'm going take them to the atm machine. I'm gonna get quick money that I'm gonna drop back off. There might not be, killing involved at all, but now use miles away after carjack this lady and she doesn't have an atm card. So ok, what act. Do I do now. I panic. I shoot her throughout dump the car. When I go the next time I don't want to go through that whole killing. Then again I let them go. The third one possibly gets out a hand again either way it's all sad I got feeling is that there are connected I could see you. I could see a strong argument for that. But if the detectives are saying that there is no forensic link, then they're probably have something that I just don't know, said something that we would. They have not made public. Hopefully
captain the police and the investigators get that lead that they're waiting for that their hoping and praying for that they get that lead soon and we hope to hear that break that we're wanting in this case, and if we here thing will update. You said the sad case for sure recommended breeding for this week. Yes, captain I'm going to remind everybody to pick up the black dahlia avenger, which is a book we have featured. I have featured before on the recommended reading, but I'm not Giving lazy gap than I promise it's just because we've had lots of fans, lots of listeners, say you've got to cover the black dahlia and we if the cover that is going to be one of the cases we cover in season. It's something we're working on right now, yeah, it's going to be it's going to be very good, so pickup, lack dahlia avenger by steve hotel, I'm reading it now for the second time, and you can pick that by going to our website, true crime garage, dotcom click on
recommended page and go to the amazon banner that we have their type in black dahlia avenger by sea. Adele and for within true crime. You can check us out at true crime, garage dot, com, Follow us on twitter, facebook, instagram at true crime, garage thanks for listening and until next time be good, be kind and don't let him.
Transcript generated on 2023-06-01.