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The the. welcome to true grab garage wherever you are whatever you're doing. Thanks for listening, I'm your hosts nick and to my immediate right manning the trolls barking out orders like a general, but he is not the general he is.

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ward weaver, the third, his claims of being the number one suspect, or at least being one of the top suspects and the disappearance of two young teenage girls might be right because its one point we know the police in Oregon city began to intensify their focus on ward weaver. One have they done at first once you make these claims on public t v. Maybe That gave them the inkling that they should make him the number one suspect and while they were searching into all of the suspects, you know we in that at one time they said the suspect pause as many as thirty suspects and then whittled down to twenty, maybe ten, according to the fbi. There's a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes here. You know a spell: regarding ward weaver, the third, the authorities collected his work records. They were looking. into his whereabouts on the two days in question. They were, Reviewing statements given by

other people in the neighborhood bright, asking questions to those people regarding his close ties to Ashley one of the missing girls and they even took search dogs out to whirl spots where ward weaver like to camp now, we who has been divorced twice by this point, he has five children here. described by police as a violent man with an explosive temper, and we know that to be fact based off of his criminal past. According to county law enforcement records police have been dispatched to weavers home ten times since november of two thousand so within a span of less than two years. Ten times they work. Now toward weavers home. Many of these calls were domestic and nature, yet there weren't does goin out there to give em like the citizen of the year ward right then, in late june of two thousand and two two detectives even made a trip to ida

to interview rodney weaver, remember this is his half brother Even though Ronnie hadn't seen his brother and over a year police wanted to speak with him, he told the police he never met, Ashley or miranda. The two potential victims, but he did tell investigators, bout the time that they went camping in rural mullah now that has I'm up in a and a case that we covered before that that whole area there this is an area that was searched by cadaver dogs regarding the investigation into what weaver. Now, moving down our time line a bit unbeknownst to police rodney ever spoke with his brother via phone call. This is around the first or second week of august, two thousand and two during these phone calls ward, we were told his half brother, he was sick of the police following him around town. He was sick of them, tat his phone lines and sick of the town that was calling him a suspect,

award weaver. The third was almost finished packing his things according to what he told his brother and is planning to move out of state, possibly too to her washington state or maybe even to mexico, then the dramatic change of events on august thirteenth, two thousand into ward weavers, oldest son frances, ever contacted nine one one and reported that his father had attempted to rape. Francis is nineteen year old girlfriend francis urge the dispatcher to send police and before France's hung up the phone, he told the despair. That his father, ward, weaver. The third told him, He had murdered both ashley an miranda police arrest ward weaver holding On one million dollars bought, this was just for the rape allegations of his sons girlfriend his son france, this was being question regarding his statement to the dispatcher regarding some girls, francis, like his father, had his

own troubles with the law, in fact, Ninety ninety nine francis weaver shot a rife. into a truckload of teens injuring his best friend. This was in idaho. North of twin falls. He was charged with aggravated assault, a felony and served several weeks in a juvenile detention facility right, so we have france's, which is the sign of ward weaver, Third, yes, so he shooting into he shooting at cars full of people, so he's a ship bag. His fathers, ship bag- and we know ward weavers, the thirds father is a ship bag. junior, so we very violent family. We have generations of of wildly violent men, so he has family rights so that the shit sandwich does fall too far from the shit tree or something.

Will. That sandwich would be like a club sandwich or a big man club. You know salient when you have three layers too, it would be a whopper, that's what you're saying? Oh, what a shit whopper, while the first thing that they drove me. Crazy. When I was looking into this case was the smell of now, these allegations by Francis weaver right because your tongue, thing about this is like munson later, after, both these girls went missing,. and he saying to the nine one, dispatcher hey my father hold me that he abducted and killed those two girls. But when, though, because if it was months ago, then you just kind of proven night how big of a piece What will end? That's! That's what I was wondering I'm like how long did Francis weaver sit on this information? However, it looks to me like France's weaver, actually lived. Most

the time with his brothers with his father's half brother right and it looks he would come and stay from time to time with his father, so France, We were, may not have known this information until very shortly before calling nine, when one in fact learn this information may have come about because of the attack on his girlfriend. I couldn't find anything out there to definitively state when Francis weaver was claims that he heard this confession from his father that he had killed those two girls rights or right, and then authorities could be this goal. you're. Making this well either way that we know the allegations of his father to rape is girlfriend that's for reels. Yes, and that's what they're going to hold ward weaver, the third on on that rape allegation and you hit the nail on the head their captain, because some of the investigators believed. Frances weavers claims heck most of them

ward weaver was thereby even before the new rape allegations, but there were some that wondered if Francis made up that part of the story you know of his dad having killed the girls, because he was simply angry about the attack on his girlfriend. Knowing his father might have already been a suspect in those cases yeah and you would be mad and should be mad. The other thing was the exact under questioning the exact details of that confession from father to son, or the way that francis would tell the the as to gaiters about that those details, change from time to time and francis the story though they call it into question a little more yeah, but regardless free as we were, did maintain that his father confessed to him that he killed the girls were in the tricky.

in here those the confession to him could have been very small as far as details go and then they start asking you for more details, and you dont know so there when you start making those up, you also have to wonder- was that actually some kind of threat that ward weaver posed to Francis his girlfriend, and that may be francis- didn't hear it directly from his father's mouth. You know during the course of attacking that that woman, Francis his girlfriend That part of the threats that were made because we ve covered other cases where we have repeat offenders when they are going. After a victim and things going their way. They will use anything as a threat law and you have again ward weaver. The third, which is also a big shit, a big mac, and then we have to offer Oh shit, Francis then you start wondering maybe they're both were involved,

possibly but again, it's very likely frances weaver wasn't even in all right. That's right, you know, has it doesn't seem to be that that was his main residents. While I would, if I was the lead detective on this- that what did the modem you would have get put back to hey, wait a minute. We need you to answer the phones. For a few months, captain didn't nick just say he lived with his brothers, half brother you're on bicycle patrol. That's how good gimme horse duty The where we grew up captain. I nobody has directly said this to me I have to believe the bicycle patrol was like some form of punishment for further the officers yeah, anyway the the fbi? What what does come of this that the fbi and the local authorities, regardless of what level of suspect they believe, ward weaver, the third to be.

They finally were able to obtain a warrant search his property because of these new allegation right on august. Twenty fourth fbi agents searched where's home, and they found the remains of miranda ganis inside a box in storage shed, following day. They found the remains of ashley pond inside a barrel and which was buried under a slab of concrete that weaver had recently put down for a hot tub, or so he claimed now one thing regarding that interview that we reference yesterday when he when ward, we were the third being a suspect right living near the crime scene, invites the camera crew and invites a reporter into his home and walk. Her around his home as he answers questions and speaks to being a suspect in the case of two missing girls,

there's one part of the interview when he's leading them out. They go out through like the back door of his home and they go around side- and I might have this wrong because I dont know the full lay out of this property. But at one point They walk over top of this concrete slab tat. He had poured to cover up the remains of this poor girl and some have wandered- was that another was that another shot at all the people. Looking at him as a suspect, like you know, just quetta doing, thing and walking right over top of the concrete that he had poured. Well, he is a real, arrogant son of a bitch anyways. He he he was one of those people that not only does he think he's the smartest guy in the room. He thinks he's the smartest guy in any town. He goes in is what it seems to me, and so that would be, like you said, a show, hey, come in talk to me. They they they say, I'm the number one guy and

and then by the way, was walker for her remains. While you leave, Well, you know what, if what his half brother says is true ward, we were was packing as things are getting ready to get out of town. You know if you I went to mexico pool I mean I'm sure they would have search that property or figured out a way to search that property at some point with him being gone, but would they have been able to catch up with him right and so on? sober second, two thousand and two war, or very or catch up with them or catch him in time before he did something else stoop yet right right, exactly The second of October ward weaver, was indicted on charges of counts of aggravated martyr. Two counts of abuse. Of a corpse and the second degree, one count of sexual abuse in the first two and one count of attempted rape in the second degree, one count of attempt aggravated murder one count of

committed rape in the first degree and one count of sexual abuse in the first degree, and to avoid the death penalty, ward, weaver the third plead guilty to murdering his daughters. France he received to life sentences without the possibility of parole for the deaths of ashley pond in miranda ganis now, while he's do well in prison, He was strangely enough, the same month that ward weaver, the third was indicted on the murder rate charges, his son who turned a man, Frances weaver is accused of threatening some relatives. Apparently he called his aunt and two cousins and threaten their lives during

phone call or is that we get the grandpa he's charge death sentences for the the gravel sentences, then the sun, the third he now has to life sentences. Now we have the the the grandson frances He is threatening people in his family yeah. Well, I mean he's already shot at a vehicle with people right now he's threatening his family. So it's the third generation of of wild violence. Really I mean of these violent men, and I mean I'm to strike you bob. What these turn will, then in two thousand and five francis weaver was charged with bright. into a south east portland home, holding the residents hostage and then robbing them. He was acquitted, though in court, then, later that same year, police and firefighters came across a puzzling seen finding edward kelly spangler of grants. Pass laws

outside his handy as you v and locust city park. It was obvious that he had crashed the vehicle into a tree, but it wasn't until they examined him closely that they found he had suffered. Multiple gunshot wounds, spangler aged forty three was pronounced dead at the scene now working with the major crimes unit police then trace spangler, to a nearby apartment, complex for which they obtain search wars. They soon arrested twenty seven year old, Michael origin, who admitted that he shot spangler twice in the head. According to the court documents Now police also arrested francis weaver at the apartment complex Francis initial charging him with robbery. Meanwhile,

or in reportedly told police where they could find another accomplice. This is thirty. Two year old, shannon betancourt, a portland police bureau, cirque team, served a search warrant at the home of betancourt in portland, where betancourt was arrested according to court documents, police believe weaver or in bed Court stocked, spangler planning to steal fifteen pounds of marijuana that spangler had brought from southern organ for cash exchange, but the robbery didn't go smoothly and then they killed

spangler. After a round of interviews, authorities filed a new charge against Francis weaver for murder and then convicting him of such where they convicted him, and somebody else correct. It was this. This team of three that had planned to rob this man and ultimately led to the murder of spangler regarding the deaths of ashley and miranda, the two girls from the ward weaver, the third case. We would get some updates and some clarity as to what happened in those specific cases, would take some years for some of this to come to light, but miranda sister Mariah. She started communicating with ward weaver the third once he was imprisoned, serving his to life sentences and He wanted some answers as to what happened and he would tell her some of the things that that occurred, that led up to their murder out

It took about three years, I'm sorry took about. I think it was six or seven years after he was imprisoned there. He finally told Mariah that the reason that he killed ashley was because he feared that he was going to eventually face charges for the rape allegations right and there there are not any details as to how the abduction took place. I mean it could have been a simple as he picked upon the street on our way to the bus, stop she could a showed up after the bus out actually took off or before the other key and he could have got her there as well. we do know that he admitted to having a motive, let's say for killing this young girl, the other thing so too is? maria wanted to know. Well, why did you kill my sister miranda and what ward never told her was the miranda

was near his home and saw him doing something and I'm I'm confused as to It was that he was doing his statement is simply that he was dead something and I dont know if mariah clean this up for the papers or if he didn't directly teller. But that something was, but he simply says he He was in the middle of something he was doing something random saw him and he got scared any panicked. Unfortunately, he used basically the love in the friendship between the two girls to lure her into his home. He basically told miranda ashley is inside his house actually wants to come home, keep in mind. She was missing for two months by this point. They actually wants come home, but she scared- and this is

got miranda to go over to his house and go into his home that eventually lead to the murder one. She goes on digging a hole. concrete down that in the body? Yet I think, that's probably like we, what was going on because, like I said when I saw, portions of the interview with ward weaver, the the placement of that concrete, He walked over the concrete with the reporter. It looked to me like that was on the side of his home, if somebody was coming up the hill approaching the bus stop there. very likely, seen him doing something on the side of that house right and he if so, he may have thought that she saw something that she infected. Nazi right am I need than a year

me no tricks are into coming into the house or he's align piece of shit and he didn't. He didn't, kill ashley to stop the rape charges. He killed her, so he can raper again and then he decided to rape another girl and kill her as well. Will it think about this firm it because you have a bow? months or so they go. They go by between the time that these allegations come forward about the rape or molestation before she's abducted and killed six months but what he just sat, they're scared for six months and did nothing about it and all of a one day decided to take action. Now it doesn't make any sense, see here. Here's here's the issue here came, and we see this time and time again with a lot of serial killers and that's what we need to go ahead and label ward weaver, the third, as we know he killed to heed

very likely was going to kill Francis weavers girlfriend during that attack. Something stopped that something prevented that from happening, What we have here is excuses, and we see it time and time again, there's an excuse for the murder. When really that that the simple fact of you're making this up you're making this up because their work there were reasons that you attacked and killed these young girls, and none of it has to do with the excuse that you ve brought up and that you ve told to her sister right ike. I killed ashley to cover up the rape allegations, but I waited over six months and then does it doesn't make a logical sense in the miranda saw meet in the middle of something, and I got scared. my panics jerking off on the porch, but it is in way, it's almost like victim blaming like blaming your eventual murder victims that

I had. I had to do this because of this city. Jerusalem. Charge route browsing, I had a killer. It's it's. An honor friend saw me genome it proclaims, not that I'm just it's not that I'm just an evil child killer or an evil. Woman keller, it's it's! I had to do it because of this. I don't buy it for a second, I don't buy. It it might have saved him. Some for whatever, when he had to talk to her sister so many years later, and you not kudos to mariah right kudos to her for Knowing in saying and demanding answers from this scumbag. Look me in They look me in the eye and tell me why you killed my sister that's not an easy thing to do now, but also this guy's a liar, and he again I mean he's when they. I said he was a suspect he put the blame on his father in disguise. Not you! That's all look if, if you're one of these people that keep blaming everything society this that this,

This is what path he might be leading down this. What these people do so he ate Does it time and time again? So, yes is very brave of her and she gonna get the answers that she's looking for now, but. There's probably some truth to the idea that, yes, your sister saw me doing something. What that something is we, I guess we'll just won't now we don't know or but but again or does he just? Does she just his victim ology. You know, I mean she, I think, that's what I think. That's what it is still. I think if these are sexually motivated martyrs adoptions, yeah these rapists and a murder right- and I think that is the real answer behind all this.

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the and we're back shears mate bubble, bah you know. This is kind of a good study, a good case study. You know the old question of nature verses nurture. Do these be known? Are we bow and some people born to kill or are they created by their environment that they grow up in as a child or society around them. and this is one of those interesting cases where it's, unlike many many other cases out there where we have three, three generations of killers we have ward weaver junior, who was convicted in sentenced to death in California. Now he did ultimately appeal those death sentences. I don't think he had any luck with the overturning those you no good good for us and the thing.

By the thing to keep in mind. Here, though, is remember, the statement gives by the fbi later, whether like love, this guy he's got to death sentences or eddie. He was already facing forty two years in prison before we brought those death penalty cases against him for violent crimes for four abduction and an attempted murder right and we have twenty six unsolved homicide cases that we can track back to his truck trucking routes. We don't know if he was involved in those are not now. I am not going is involved in someone with whom I am not to get I'd place. A bet on that. I, I think you're exactly right. I'm not going to turn all cold case cameron online, believe that he's what responsible for all twenty six of them, but look the two crimes that we know that he did. One was too People that you here he happened upon because their vehicle broke down there,

and the other two were runaways hitchhiking, my How many times in the course of his long haul trucking career? Did he just happen upon some people? It doesn't appear that he needed much motivation for abduction and murder other than if a female was present when he happened upon these people sexually motivated, which when you look at his son, his crimes are sexually motivated as well, exactly exact, and then you have the grandson Francis weaver, who his crime are somewhat different, but ultimately he's convicted of murders. Well, right. You know his crimes are more seems actually motivated, though now, it just seems like of like a violent man regarding shooting into a vehicle full of of kid, your age. then robbing in and murdering. You know it's more

of of thugs wanna be gangster type crimes. I you know if I had a given such a title ray. I I think the issue here is: if, if you could identify a gene,

that you said okay or zero killers or all violent offenders have this gene. Then the question becomes: do you lock them up before they commit a crime, because you know that they have that gene? And so it's like because you you look at this way when they take Dahmer in when he was having some issues as a kid and they haven't talked to a therapist right right and the therapist. Does this test and comes back and say, hey Dahmer has this gene that possibly will lead him to be zero killer? Do you lock them up or do you let them live and to see what happens, and I think this this is kind of a question that people keep,

was into the true crime, community hm well, yeah and again some have argued that it's nature. Some have argued that it's nurture. I I think that the look there's a lot of good arguments for both both stances on this right, but the but the. But that wasn't the question. The question is: if you knew definitively that this guy has the serial killer gene, do you lock them up before they commit any crime, that such a tough thing to answer, because I mean I was part of you wants to say yes, of course, of good guy, because then they don't kill me I am in they're, not gonna, kill me any innocent people in and that's a good thing, but then on the other. the hand you go? Well, I guess if they can control themselves, then maybe we we don't lock them up and and hopefully they can, they could control themselves now that they know this

information to hey. You have this gene, but again with all these serial killers. Em in all you here. All the time is about these urges. Soak is any bay even capable of stopping these, well and from from, as far as we know, most of these serial killers come from there. Not there. born and bred from other serial killers My great. This is a unique situation here, where we have. Three generations of murderers, and I think I am of the the belief that There's a lot of things are unique in every case is unique in every suspect. Is an individual and needs to be looked at such I. Don't really like throwing everybody into a big batch together into saying: hey, they're, all cookery cookie cutter, they're, all carbon

copies of one another right. It's almost like it's hard to study them beforehand. You have to wait until the crimes happen does it make sense for you now that we're looking back on them. Hindsight we can see the development and I am of the belief that its as much of one as it is the other. I think

it's a mash of the two. I don't think that there's a definitive argument for it being just one daughter, ordinary right: it's probably a percentage, but in the case of like a dahmer, I would go beyond nature versus nurture I'd, say it's probably eighty twenty! You know this guy was born with some things wrong with them and specially when you have a father, that's trying to get you help, especially the fo. When you have a father that so concerned about you and so concerned about your row, you're, reacting and interacting in society. So I'd lean more towards nature. There but I think you're right, it's some kind of percentage of those two, and I believe that in this case, if we discuss this week, especially with ward weaver, the third I built- there was a lot of signs when he was a teenager, that this is a violent man with

with the strange sexual appetite. You know it the other the same strains sexual appetite that his father and correct correct in the weird thing there is we, you could make an argument that there was a gene that was ass down between the two, because, basically We were doing didn't really raise ward weaver, the third. He was only around till the kid was about four run. Then he took off but then could also argue, you know people would say: well, then it can't be nurture in this specific situation but how do we know that him not being there didn't mould ward, weaver, the third and in a certain way but our game even just not being there is the heart of it. To me, it's late with ward weaver, the thirty Sargon seems like it's more nature. nurture well in a strange twist to this whole thing. After francis we

or was arrested and convicted of murder. Well, as we know most states that have felony convictions, they then take your dna. Well then they took his dna. They learned that he was in fact not the biological son of ward weaver, the third. You are not the father again, not the father in morey would be so proud of us. You know it's, while is. If you look at a picture of why have we junior weaver, the third and Francis weaver. So junior in the third look, a lot alike you can easily look at the two of them go: ok, that's father and son. If you look at francis weaver, I don't think he looks anything like a look anything like ward weaver, the third. Well, do you wonder if he knew the sun Francis or if we were the third? Now, if we for the third. Now I'm assuming that this the sunday now it's enter

thing that you bring that up because remember weaver, the third attacked his. life when she was pregnant, with their first born member. He sent her to the hospital and she refused to press charges against him. You know we'd often get to do this, but we will get to this week I what I like in this next part too. You know when you watch the you ever watch the the sunday evening, news like the the national news and and look if you're, not in a good space. Don't watch the national news, because it's just bad after bad after magic story. I could sometimes I sit down the watch it and I feel great about myself in the world we live in and then I've of in a dark place about forty five and its into, but continue to listen to our show every tuesday at seven p m, but remember on like anchor man. They did this in the moon

anchor man and they they do it on the national news every week where they show you all these terrible tragedy. Worries and then they leave you with like polar bears, p together, you know store. Where at you anchor me I think it was the the squirrel that was swimming in the pool well for them. Story, and I know that I should be a bigger, better human being. But I'm sorry I'm just not capable yet this took place in two thousand and eight, I believe, ward weaver, the third- Third, who was serving time he was serving out his to life sentences, sixty percent of the time at work solvents this was in the snake river, correctional institution, but snake river correctional institution

So what we re a third he he actually lives and the segregated portion of this institution milk. Is you take the the high risk and mates in you keep them separate, because there are people in general population that want to harm or kill these inmates right, so he is getting a haircut and I guess I e the way that this works here is that the barber is another inmate mollet at a bullet. Erika? I don't know what kind of no he's getting a person. I have no idea what what he might go, bolton kidding What style he was going for you You may not even get to choose, because I know that they are not allowed to use scissors they're not permitted to use lock a seagull. They use electric razors instead, but during the of this haircut now mind you, the barber and weaver. Are the only two

in the room. At the time the barber stabbed weaver multiple times fashioned the shank from up. I believe it was from a toothbrush and so I know you did look, that's that's what I like, unlike I feel zombie yeah. I don't know the answer to that, though, should I not be laughing, I mean look like I said I want a bigger, better person. But I'm Are you a better person? A few are laughing. That's true! That's what I question that is the son of a bitch raped and murdered kids. You know so yeah laugh at his death. We well, he did not. I didn't die, he survived the standing, the israelis funny or something I don't know where they stand. In the neck and shoulders so,

good attempt by this marvin Lee taylor, forty four who was Marvin any city stabbed him in the rectum, was eventually charged with assault possession of a weapon in supplying contraband now, I wonder what what did he say to the barber? started argument. We know he's violent or was it a simply like you said they find out what We were dead and they go and taken this guy down We would be on the lowest rung of the prison population right. You know, as is, as you know, silly as it seems that there different levels of these. I don't think it's silly or society that they live in. I you know, there's there's something about it. I look bigger person, not bigger person. I don't give a There's something I like about the fact that a few do somethin, you take a child's life, you harm a child and you go to prison,

but somehow they find out about it and they decide to say we're drawn a line and we're going to we're going to do something about it, and these are some of these. People are the worst of the worst, but there's guys in prison that have killed multiple apple, but they killed adults and that their saying hey, this guy killed a child. I'm going to take him out. I there's something that I like about that. And maybe that makes me a horrible person, Bodily them really dark right now you have it doesn't bother me. I don't think it would bother most did that, I'm sorry! I enjoy it. I dont think did about.

No, it doesn't bother me one bit that this person is a marked man. You know that if you go to, if you go to prison for this type of court, these type of crimes I mean come on, we have I come therapists sponsor this week to them. I have to emphasise that sweet and tom that I like the fact that their prison justice and asked them if that makes me a bad person. I don't think so. he makes me a good person. Yeah, like I said, I'm I'm fine with it. I'm fine with people, you look, you have to be held accountable for your actions and that doesn't stop after you're convicted in a court of law. Bright

you're still going to be judged by your peers, ultimately, for the rest of your days, ray yeah and it'd be hard to know. If you, what you do if, if you're supposed to spend life in prison for something and you used, had it spinit with these monsters, what what would you do for it's tough? But with this gene it's like, I think, maybe technology will advance more, we'll, we'll know more about this kind of stuff. But I'll know if it's ok. It's like. I don't know how where we're at now, but it's like, I think I don't know where I don't even know. If I want to talk about it, because it seems

So your political they, like, I don't know if you should be able to choose your your baby, sacks refused to be other trees, babies, eye color or any of that stuff. While the idea of its interesting the idea of a of of a possible murder gene is interesting to ponder that thought and a question that I dont think the cases we ve covered so many cases. I don't feel like we see so much of of sign of that. That is something that actually exist right. You know, and in that case, that we reference during the trailer mobile verse, the state of georgia, that it just seems like a defence that you come up with when there is no other defence to put forth my clients but look we can't confirm. We can't find a doctor to tell you the ease, clinically were legally insane, but he

have this murder gene? That means he's not responsible for his own actions. He can't control himself. He has no no ability to to control himself and a certain situate in its proven genetically that he's going to behave. A radical and super violent in certain situations, because of her he's his dna. His genetic make up its farfetched. Fetch and if there was a murder gene but the different kind of gene, do you think they would sell those at like hot topics or like at abercrombie and fitch? What do you think? What do you think murder jeans would look murder, skinny jeans maybe it'll be skinny. I think they would look like skinny jeans, but the the design would be like zoom buzz. I get angry and skinny jeans, because I can't sit down humble brag, humble brag that I can't sit down cause your your junk is too big. That's not what I meant

was gone with the humble burned, but what we can agree on here captain is. We both feel that it is a combination of nature and nurture the moulds these people end. this violent behaviour later in their life and what is interesting though, and is that we will continue to study this and we will continue to learn from this. Unfortunately true, crime is a part of our history and if we choose to ignore it. We fail to learn from it One also remember that if it is a combination of nature and nurture that were a part of the nurture as a society, so be excellent to each other, and we're gonna do a little recommended viewing for everybody this week this week recommending the new doc you see

he's murder mountain. It is director very good friend, of the show, I Zeman one of his new projects. This is on netflix, so you don't have the russian by a book or anything like that, you can just watch it on netflix and enjoy I'm alive way through the doc you series right now has is very good You know and joshua always does good stuff and we had him on the show what was about two years ago to discuss the killer season, dark you series that he did on any with really good fantastic and that kind of centred around the long. when serial killer case, which we ve covered multiple times, and we ve even discussed off mike of getting back into their case, because it's been such a big one force in the first couple seasons of true crime garage, but murder mountain. It's about

humboldt county. California, the big business of legal marijuana brings in visitors from all around the world and some are never seen again so check out. or mountain by our good friend, joshua Zeman on Netflix south, I'll check it out this weekend and everybody thanks so much for supporting the show things for sharing on social media thanks for tom, your friends, thanks for tanya mothers till next week. Everybody be good, be kind dolan.