My name is jason alexander. The star bedtime stories of the angle side in a brand new scripted, comedy podcasting, which I play palm springs. Hotelier mel haber through in the nineteen seventies, turn the run down anxiety and into the best kept secret, get away for hollywood's elite. The series also stars Brian Jordan, Alvarez Michael, the keen richard kind, lance basque, and what you can find bedtime stories of the angels. I didn't on serious exam, pandora stitched or wherever you get your forecast, don't forget to follow the jobs. Are you never misses episode? This spring transform your outdoor space into Iraq. You were gathering place for you in your loved ones, with help from actually whether you're into wicker, teak or driftwood inspired furniture. We ve got the look you're going for add an accessory like string lights and beverage tabs to take your patio party from basic to gear, aided and enjoy cosy evening vibes with a new fire bit visit, ashley dot com or start by your local store and find affordable pricing and expert support today

and saved today. Only it actually The welcome to true gram garage wherever you are whatever you are doing, thanks for listening, I'm your hosts, nick and me as always, is a man. The believes carers are pan handlers with good voices. He is the captain

show up to my door, singing those songs prepare to get a missile to wear a moose knuckle dropped on your face, it's good to be seen, and it's good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling my friend All week long, we have been in the spirit of the holidays. We are drinking christmas ale by the great people up at great lakes, brewing company garage gray, still four and five bottle caps with a navy of seven point: five and a healthy dose of holiday spices, great lakes mozilla will have you sliding down chimneys and scaring the neighbours in no time and christmas. It was brought to us by some of our very good friends. First up we have court and would naturally washington next sub. We have jessica and picked in ontario. We also have data from quarterly idaho big. We like your job to Jenin, LISA and tipped in georgia and russia, kelly in colombia, tennessee also in tennessee. We have merited than Emily and chattanooga and last, but

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well what, right now, at issue were two years from now from the data. The incidents of the case has been actively being investigated by the division of police and a couple months ago we turned our investigation over to the prosecutor's office and they have convened a grand jury and they have been not bringing people and that a grand jury and taking testimony

ama from people in the grand jury. As far as what that testimony is, as everyone knows, that's that secret. We don't know what that is, but there is no one person or persons that were actually looking at we're just trying to gather as much information as we can. Well, I bet from from an investigative process. I feel like we're a little closer, because you know before we didn't have enough, where we didn't the prosecutors didn't feel we had enough to even convene a grand jury. So yeah, I do feel like we're a little bit closer. But you know, as you know, we're you don't have to follow the letter of the law and provide everybody there, their constitutional right But the idea do I'm optimistic that we are getting closer

well. You know that those are. Those are three separate events that took place right now, and it really has nothing to do with this, but you know, obviously she was down here to meet him, so you know that something that we definitely have to look at, something that we have looked at, but as far as him being indicted. Those are three separate shoes in three different counties that he's going to answer for Lisa Sherman was stabbed outside her lawyers office in cleveland, ohio in march two thousand and thirteen just to day before her divorce, try was scheduled to begin. It starts They chilling call to nine when one after a man heard elisa screams and rushed to her aid. Lisa sherman, a mother for was in the alley way of an office building bleeding

eleven stab wounds, it was Kenny. A bird who ran to her. He said she was having trouble standing. She fell to the ground. Kenny did everything he could I to help her elisa, who was just fifty three years old died in a hospital emergency room. She had her purse with her when she was found so police rule out robbery as motive the savage attack left. Her best friend jan lash in shock jan spoke with the liza just an hour, but for she was stabbed to death. Jan told reporters that they had their usual conversation adding alive. There was a little anxious because she was going to court soon. That's why! Lisa Sherman went downtown on that sunday. She was there to view Her divorce lawyer JANET. Told reporters that she offered to go with her, but Elisa said no thanks, Jan lash and some of the less as family,

say elisa sherman wanted to change attorneys, but it was far too late in her case the meat. that was scheduled for that sunday at her attorney, gregor remorse request. Well it now, slight. That meeting may have never have happened early in this case. Suspected that elisa was killed after leaving moors office, but now it up here. She was walking to possibly enter the building, not exit the building. We will get into that a little bit more later. What was upset Very early on in this investigation was the lisa sherman murder revealed a family torn apart. She and her husband, sandford sherman, a retired optimal august, was facing kint a contentious divorce proceedings that we're going to take place that weak, scheduled to start just two days after her death. The investigation turned up a surveillance video from a near by working garage showing a person fleeing this.

of. Elisa murder covered nearly head to toe in dark colored clothing, the It does not tell us much, leaving only speculation as to the persons race and gender police search for murder happen at the scene and on the rooftops of nearby buildings and turned up nothing they serve the sherman residence for knives, but none of them matched the murder weapon, two gaiters interviewed employees in the floors above the walkway, where she was killed. They all question attorney, Gregory, more and members of the my family and still do not have evidence to put together a good suspect in this case now, just a few weeks after the murder the justice for Elisa movement began. This was started by Elisa daughter that she was so close to jennifer. They teamed up with the cuyahoga county crime stoppers too

offer a twenty five thousand dollar reward for information in the case and promoted it on a billboard near east fourteenth street and carnegie avenue in July jennifer guy there's more than one hundred women for a self defense class at the beechwood community center, then one month later in hopes that someone would come forward with information. The crime stoppers reward was increased to fifty thousand dollars. Jennifer also replaced her father as an exam get or of a lisa sherman estate. Jennifer was every adamant about finding out whoever was responsible for her muff murder and making sure that everything- and I do mean everything- would come to light now. I want everyone to return their seats to a fully upright position, because it's about to get harry, ok, long, hair, dont care. So two months after the first anniversary of the liese is death. Jennifer Sherman filed a civil sue against her father. In it she said

to recover more than two million dollars. Sandford, allegedly funneled out of a job bank account that he held with a liza. While she was still alive. Jennifer's civil suit claimed that sandford concern with five unnamed individuals to hide more two million dollars from elisa by moving it from their joint bank account into one in a leases name according to the court records This was a mirror lynch account that was in question and was discovered by elisa after she hired forensic accountant, Jeffrey firestone, two months just two months before she was killed

right, so how this works being a former banker as normally when you go into a divorce, if you have money or some wealth, then what they do is they hire basically a detective. If you will to go through financial chains to see you know what accounts they have, because when you go to get them for she gonna say well, let's just split up our accounts, while everything that you earned during that wedding is then in debate. If you dont have a prenup, so basically what they found out was he was taken millions of dollars. But what was weird here was he was still put in an account with her name on the piazza, their shoe and just with her name being on it. She's entitled to that money yeah in the it's. It's a lie crazy. That's why will have to get into a but your exactly right. That's just what you do you

not always trust ever wanted to come to the forefront and say, look lay everything on the table. This is what I have. This is what you have. This is what we have right: let's just divvy it up. Fifty fifty it work that way. Sometimes people have accounts and they have funds in things it the even their significant other who supposed to be close as one to them may not be aware of what there were that closely parliament be. forwards anyway, so well, according to the law to a as claim we that she was not aware of this account at any time until it was discovered by the forensic accountant. She was unaware of this account when it was opened in her name back in two thousand and according to male she sent to her attorney Gregory more elisa was also unaware of having ever signed a power of attorney. This power of attorney that was signed regarding this account gave sanford control over the funds and the account it's

He he might have had a inside person and if he had a inside person than they can basically create what counts they want to be all fraudulent. Just I mean just letting a hard work. I mean you have to see. You can't just go into a bank and open up a cow and some males name. You have to have their idee their information, their signature are, they have to be present most of the time, he had no somebody on the inside. Ok, I This episode is titled suspects and we are talking about forensic accountants. Bank accounts in power returnees, but this account just this one account that was discovered just two months before a leases murder. in cold blood on the cold streets of cleveland? And we are? talking a large sum of money. I'm sure, not quite too billion dollars after everything is moved around and transfer fees and penalties, and all of that stuff well think about. We ve had so many cases where

The motive has been money, but that could be as little as a thousand dollars, or you know a couple hundred thousands of dollars and a life insurance or something. But here we have at least one you know not only are they dividing up all the money, but on top of that we have this extra fond of two million you don't think two million is enough reason I mean he's already arabian. various by niven tell her about the count anyways while doktor. threatened a lot of horrible things for just one million dollars, so Let's keep in mind here. This is just one account and one that I must say. I must say is allegedly found, but who knows there could be more of these accounts right. Of course, leads to motive a motive for sandford to have his wife killed. If their divorce proceedings don't go to court. Does this cat

come to light, you know is well one else aware of this account in the sherman family will right, but have the one account. That's two million dollars that's great now, but you have motive to begin with two days after her murder, what was going to happen? The divorce proves seeding and- and the judge said we're not going to have any more continuance. This is going forward, we're not going to waste any more time. So half your stuff is going to be, and it's such a weird situation to go through to have court tell you, what is yours and what is hers? Yeah I mean yeah and that's what's gonna happen to him and let she's alive. That's what's happening in two days, so that that's motive by itself. On top of that, you gotta account that two million dollars well and two million dollars. That is a lot of late night tacos. My friend has a lot. It said, okay, but but to be fair, we

should at least present the other side of the coin. Right, so Sanford as always stated in regards to this account that has called into question that one he told elisa about this account then that when he had explained it to her. She had fully a full understanding of that account and to that account was used mostly for family expenses, Everyone- anyone in this case that I could find statements from and this included persons that sided with sandford and liked him, and also those that did not they all say it was the understanding that sandford was primarily responsible for paying the families bills right so Sanford says this account paid the families household bills and we're talking about that you know that we spoke of their almost forty nine hundred square foot home

I'm sure than that. Really, nice home came with a really nice mortgage rain and the now, according to sanford, was also used for credit cards and tuition payments as well, yeah, which we have some kids in college. So there's going to be big payments in motions filed in the court. This motion contended that these funds from this account were not used for family purposes, but in fact they were used for strippers, maybe another lover trips and a defamation sue, their elisa. Never knew about. Ok, love, a lover. Ok, so we need some data Oh here I ask it to one side. He say: hey, I'm I'm using this for my kids college no, but he is also using this to look at some tea tastes, well, outcomes to the sleazy stuff and musket sleep ok, so there is believed to have been a trip taken and I haven't

Well, I have a little. I call this into question a little before we can talked about it yesterday. He would take these trips to new york and florida and yeah well, okay. So this is what the court documents state there was trip that was taken to new york city, some time between two thousand and seven and two thousand and nine, as seems a little ran, been made, but anyway Virgil, Herman's trip taken it this time, the two or three year window in these twenty four months. He took a trip this this effort sherman paid, for. I guess using this account on this trip, its thought that he in a friend they ve been killed. One could well well known: where will we haven't got the virus? I would quote you're not to the sis was an actual real friend. Ok, it's thought that and one of his friends spent several days with a woman friend sandford had become more than friends with regarding my weight, so him and his friend

were hanging out with lady friend correct, doubled, dick infer My understanding is not that kind of party. Anyway, on this trip they spent several days, or he spent several days with a woman that supposedly he had become more than friends with, anyway regarding the defamation suit. This involves sanford, making sexual advances toward an exotic dancer and then threatening to kill her and her father. Ok, while they wait, so he makes sexual vance is towards stripper, and those go south and then he threatened to kill her and her father correct desert was I have this? What does he have to do with anything? Do we know now we don't have details about this exact stuff, ok

ok, here's really what it sounds like to me is that there some evidence to support some of these claims. My ass. Is that there is not enough evidence to be one hundred percent sure that these things actually happened. So, while I bet you that he was actually sued by this person and aunt with in the suit the defamation lawsuit. There was probably a complete filed by this individual that suit him. So Oh. What I'm guessing is the information that that's being presented in these depositions in court proceedings, is information taken from that complaint, not not the outcome of right out where he was to defend himself and say I only three to kill you, not your father, fathers, a great guy

neither golf every week and then the thing regarding the trip to new york city. Like you said he took lots of trips to florida and to new york city. He he went to florida because they had property there. Right. Ok this new york city trip when you, when you're going to accuse me, let's say of taking some stray trip with a woman that I'm not supposed to be involved with, and you put a date on it that it happened some time between two thousand and seven and two thousand and nine. My guess is what took place is this. There was a friend he had a friend and I think friend's name. First name is Larry right: let's go in flaring K, Larry he had a friend named Larry dead, apparently his wife, not areas- wife, Sanford's, wife, elisa, she was now comfortable with sanford being friends with this guy in my guess, is when he was out party in with Larry. They probably got trouble together from time to time right right. Everybody has that one friend

well at some point in their relationship. Sanford must have agreed to not hang out with Larry anymore, no more layer bear right well, What I'm guessing took place was that he probably took several trips to new york city during the course of two thousand and seven two thousand and eight and two thousand and nine many. Of these trips were taken with this friend Larry. That he's not supposed to be hanging out with I'm guessing that I have some information that he was hanging out with this woman on one or more of these trips to new york city. I guess he met this woman enviro beach florida. So here's here's what my thoughts are on this. I'm guessing that Sanford took a lotta trips with his buddy Larry to new york city. During the course of those three years you know, could be half a dozen could be a dozen.

I'm I'm guessing didn't he went there under the guys that he's going to be hanging out with his friend his friend was proud, probably in new york city during those occasions, so it kind of backs that information. However, he's act going there to hang out with this woman on at least one of those occasions according to these documents, but so but because you have not fair or doing some sleazy stuff doesn't mean you murder, well, yeah, of course in and that's why you know this stuff. doesn't really point toward motive. For me, however, it points towards possible, I'm talking about the defamation lawsuit possum. violent behaviour or threatening behaviour at the least right, but with that without law suit, though you have to take into account that it says it's a stripper right, so

I'd pathetically their hanging out he's just a customer, that's fine, but then she finds out. He has some money and she's using this as a way to get money, I mean that every possible again possible violent behaviour or possible threatening behaviour just after the two year in firstly of elisa murder, the police, when speaking to me, reiterated that they believed early on and still believe that this attack this stabbing death was committed by someone that new elisa and wanted her dead. They also added some new information following the statement adding that they have spoke with many people regarding this unsolved case in some people, and these are people who are not cooperating? Let's be clear, that the police are on record as stating these people are people that new elisa, so they

of people that no elisa, they suspect, someone that new her killed her and now they have people within that circle that are not cooperating with the police. They, of course, do not name this person, or, I should say persons, because the curious thing here to me is that you, I used the word people rather than we have a person. That's not cooperating some more than one right. Does this mean captain? What do you think this me I mean. Who knows I mean, but the thing is it's like we ve seen this at length. get her memorial service. We ve seen her sons state my foot I had nothing to do with this. So if you have the cops knocking on your door, trying to pin this on your father- and you don't believe that your father's capable of this or capable of hiring somebody to killer, then you're not going to cooperate. I I get that so it could be as

pause that you know but again, please armor leasing releasing who they are. So it's really hard to speculate on any of that, its very parcel that one of the people that they were talking about was in fact sanford himself, because, while police acknowledge it, they spoke with SAM early in the investigation later, they were reported as having said they interviewed, sanford sure men, but then he hired a prominent defence attorney and now he's not talking with them right here. Here's the thing that happens all the time with it so monsieur sickening almost how much it happens? It's at the beginning of the case. This person was cooperating and they gave you all this information at some point. Once you give the police as much formation, as you can add, the new realised that your possibly a suspect, but you are a gave all your information. Why one

She lawyer up you, I mean, like we ve, seen this. In some cases and it and it's like, and I wonder what the demeanor of the cops are in that room: does it become? Does it turn from questioning to interrogation and if it does, how many times have we seen false confessions? He also at some point in all this not a dumb guy now, if they're coming out again, he was cooperating. I think that's a key theme that people mrs boys not cooperating now so what he did before and he has a lawyer so now the cops just in law enforcement just have to go through the certain chains to talk to he still willing to talk, but he has a lawyer. So it is also, he is someone to help him. This

for what it is that the police in the interrogators, the investigators are attempting to do like you said we ve seen set ups in the past. The thing here is it's exactly what you said if you, if they turn up the heat and the fao and pan every one of us want to jump out of the frying pan right. I think it's possible that Sanford looks like a good suspect here and I I understand why people think he should be a good suspect, of course, the husband's always the person that you at first and then, when you find out later he's not operating. That makes you question it not me personally, but it makes you question. It may be a little more than money. It would be the motive here for me yeah. Definitely The motive and then he had some sleazy behaviour and cannot some suspicious behaviour that he's keeping secret. So what else is he hiding, I mean he's. He might be hiding a very vicious person that that the public has a fairly soon

money miss jason alexander, the star of bedtime stories of the ngo side in a brand new scripted comedy pakistan, which I play palm springs. Hotelier mel haber through in the nineteen seventies, turned the run down ingle side into the best, kept secret, get away for hollywood's elite. The series also stars Brian Jordan, Alvarez Michael, the keen richard guy last basque, and what you can find bedtime stories of the eagles. I didn't on serious example or stitched or wherever you get your bike, s don't forget to follow the jobs. Are you never missed an episode, support for them. Programme comes from arkansas escape. natural state go outdoor adventures to indoor attractions in just a few miles or a few minutes near it all, but faraway planted trip at arkansas dotcom. This spring transform your outdoor

space into a regular gathering place for you in your loved ones, with help from actually whether you're into wicker, teak or driftwood inspired furniture. We ve got the look you're going for add an accessory like string lights and beverage tabs to take your patio party from basic to gear, aided and enjoy cosy evening vibes with a new fire bid, visit, Ashley, dot com or start by your local store and find affordable pricing and expert support today shop and save today only ashley all right. Sears, maids, happy holidays to everybody, Ok, there is another person that the police's statement of persons not cooperating may pertained to, and oddly enough, this is he's, as attorney Gregory more. This seems to be a very similar situ

nation to the husbands situation more spoke with the police. He was interviewed the day after her murder. He cooperated with the police. On that day, he answered their questions. He told the police he was in his office at the time of the attack. He was waiting for their scheduled appointment. They were going go over everything before the trial proceedings were to begin. Now, let's remind ourselves of a couple of things here. The trial proceedings were to take place from my standing two days later on that tuesday. I should point out here that a few newspaper accounts and publication state that the trial proceedings were actually scheduled for the next day. To start that Monday morning, in the way would make sense why they would meet on the sun correct in in the wake of someone's death. A day's difference in the accounts seems to me like trivial detail, but I just wanted to point that out.

case. We are wrong and someone is screaming at their iphone or their computer right now we chose to report tuesday as the start of the trial two days later, as this is what is more commonly reported the most important thing here, but also commonly report, that she was leaving the meeting yes and she was. She was entering the meeting that is corrected in later stay. mention later newspaper accounts the important here about. What this is is is being reported is that the judge, in this case in the divorce case, has ordered that the proceedings move forward that there were to be no more continuance. Is in this case, and that's because her lawyer cap on there wasn't ready ever so that a key keep pushing the date back in.

back yeah, anne and at some point, Gregory more is no longer interested in talking with police. Regarding the murder of his former client elisa- and this could be I because Gregory more lands himself in some pretty hot water he gets indicted facing charge is, in a july two thousand and twelve bomb threat that, while This I know I know we were like. Why are you laughing at that? Well because it's weird while because he'd such an idiot that sickly. What would happen is he be ready for the case. He wouldn't be ready. The trial. So what would he do it colin bomb threats? Yet that's right not just once right, yes, multiple,

He called in the old bomb threat. Typically, adults do not commit this sort of crime. Usually we would be talking about an idiot teenage boy calling in one of these to get some laughs from his nitwit friends that or he know, as not ready for a test or something or has a climb the rope and Jim class were now the boy the showering, and so he doesn't want take charge of the boys. because in a bomb threat, well yeah here we have a man in his early fortys and an upper level attorney at work Maybe not all, but a good many would consider a successful law firm. Being indicted for this sort of thing. The details of this thing are pretty simple, more called in three. He called in three bomb threats to the full. swan worms are not the first one, but the last one he called in bomb threats to three domestic relations court ploys at the cairo hogan county court this be

in July, two thousand and twelve in this, the collar stay did that a bomb was set and was about to explode in a specific courtroom, the crazy. here was later later, as you said, he charged with two more of these same offences, allegedly, he called in bomb threat to a got guy egg county court house and a late counting courthouse The first was in january, two thousand and twelve, the second in may of two thousand and twelve and the last one was that one in July two thousand and twelve, so the court room? were evacuated. No explosives were found, of course, but now get this all of the court rooms receiving these threats was like you said. Gregory more was due to appear in those courtrooms with clients on those particular days. Right here's what I wonder captain if he did this one and he got away with it. Is this the same

That is what we discussed regarding the nine when one calls that were going on at the sherman house, and what I mean by that is once you ve crossed that threshold doesn't just make it there easier to do it again and again, does this become this, like it see, like, it became his go to like. Oh, I am no longer I'm not per here too to enter this court case my job, could be on the line, my my life? since the practice law could be on the line I'm going to I'm going call about their bomb. It worked once That's what I do from now on oops of parliamentary groups. It worked, I say I say oops at work, because this is destructive behaviour. This is destructive behaviour, yeah, that's theirs! the definition of destructive behaviour, now that this guy's, incompetent, you know I'll, be it be like me,

caught. You know, hey I'm, not prepared to talk about the case today, so let me call bomb threat into the garage. That's it was a mean the sky was somehow you know he got over his head. He he didn't, do the work and an end, and we saw this. He think about lisa statements. saying that she was calling that the attorney he wasn't cornerback and this little things like that he had to find a way out now. We have this case where we're going to trial, and this is a pretty big divorce process. I mean this is aware the family and there's a lotta twists and turns here? We have the separate account tat. You know she claims knowing than about he needed, be ready, weathers that monday or that tuesday he knew be ready. So, basically,

we're getting at is that would be his motive, because if she is injured or obviously dead, then there is no hearing right. They can't proceed and the funny sorry I I keep laughing because when I think about this, I'm like while the court system already has something in place for this particular set up when you're not prepared in you need more time. It's called you file, emotion for continuance right by, but here I done that so many times that this was to the point where the judges like nope their will no more continuance as we have to proceed with this and I'm sure that's what took place. That's a leases case. I'm sure that's what took based on these other cases as well, and he panics with the old go to bomb threat right and, I think, maybe He knew it wouldn't work in this case. Maybe You know if he's responsible than that, I'm guessing

What is thinking was the bar doll bomb threat. Trick has not gonna work this time when I want to shift gears here, for a little bit uk, because we have a lot of suspicious behaviour here. We have the obvious motive, making elisa husband, Sanford. A good suspect. We have. Some very vague, odd behaviour check that view three times three odd behaviour, criminal behaviour from early. as a turning gregory more plus because his point with her would have he would have been there. or been in that area at the time also Give him a very good suspect, but I also I wonder who were those I've, unnamed persons and jennifer sermons law suit. The five unnamed persons that conspired with Sanford to set up that secret account the end up worth two million dollars.

You know. I wonder who that is so there there's so much, I think, about in an eye, and we have to jump back to that law suit itself, because There is also some very interesting information that will come out as a matter of depositions and testimony in that law suit, brought forth by jennifer sherman against her father. Now we talked about the account, obviously. the account was in a less name. However, there was a power of attorney that gave sanford control of the account and, of course, access to the funds. Elisa heads Had she never signed the power of attorney. In fact she added. Why would she? Why would he signed this power of attorney. Sanford claimed that elisa had, in fact, signed the power of attorney. He climbed this in his depositions. Now, through the course of this. In these proceedings, we have three witnesses that will give statements regarding that specific power of attorney these

are three names on that specific document other than a lease, his name and Sanford's name. The first was an employee of sanford's. The next was a marrow lynch employee signed as a witness and the law Ass was the notary who was a different employ of marrow lynch. None of these three persons could call if elisa was actually present during any of the processes of signing that doc. witnessing or note arising that document. None of them could recall if she was actually there more right, first volley here, the witness and she there, then you don't sign at second reading. Through the notary? That's your job! His job is to witness the signature, and so you have you have at least two people there, basically are like. While no, what happened? Remember we didn't do your job right.

And I mean I understand, that these these court proceedings are taking place seventeen years after the fact, but, like you said, if these people doing their job. It's a very simple answer. The answer is yet. It was seven, ten years ago. However, I can tell you that, of course, she was there because, as a witness and I've witnessed many of these documents inside my name to it, I have never signed my name when a person has not been present I have never known, arise. The document when the when signing a vigil when assign he was not present for Me too note at that then document. Furthermore, a forensic document examiner hired by Jennifer german corroborated her claim that it was highly likely that the signature on. The power of attorney did not match samples of a leases handwriting. So, according to the forensic accountant, his reports state that remember some of this

Money was moved. It was eventually moved from this account of elisa to Sanford's individual accounts, and he could do because of that power of attorney, while according to the fore The accounts reports eight hundred into two thousand dollars in damages were incurred by the transferring of funds from a leases account into Sanford's individual cow, some other stuff, stuff in some other, possibly incriminating things to look at regarding Sanford, are the core papers in connection with the d or civil sue over her mothers estate SH elisa wrote to a family friend stay. I am really afraid he is going to have me killed, obviously referring to sandford, stating afraid of him and what he will do jennifer, also claims that she, the daughter, lives in fear of her father and

even afraid to go to a deposition because she may experienced physical harm on her way to or from the deposition right I mean that's cause she's speculating that Maybe her father had something to do with the death of her mother and we saw what happened there. Sanford testified that from roughly two thousand and six two thousand and ten he had been having an affair the woman who lived in new york and florida and that he had made several trips to visit her other testimony by some of sanford's, closest friends revealed that Sanford. Here been at the end of his robe and was he surely distressed in the time leading up to a leases filing for a divorce. Now, remember she file for divorce. At the end of I believe,

It's two thousand and eleven because remember this, these proceedings were extremely drawn out, but, as like I said, I mean when she's beaten up the car. That's signs that she knew that she was. You know married to cheater, cheater pumpkin eater right, so you know I I think this gaia. He tends to be a selfish individual, I mean he's. Gonna have a four year affair with some lady that lives in new york and florida. So now how much money is spinning they could go to your family and you're doing this for selfish reasons, and then you don't wanna divorce. Why does the EU that's right, you're in love with this lady you're, going to new york in florida. Ah, why? Wouldn't you just get a divorce? Cut the money in half, say: hey: it didn't work out tried. We had some kids together. You take.

this part of the money I'll take this part of my we'll. Both live good lives. But you don't want to do that. Well, he's office knows that true, though, because, as we discussed in an episode to he, he did, he asked his friends in in a less as friends, to speak with her and try to convince her into settling the divorce, the date that they just proceed with it right, but she filed first and then he filed correct. I think his lair is when people like all you didn't take two people: the vile for divorce. You just one person files, but again what we said in the last episode is he he wasn't necessarily trying to get his buddies to convince her to settle a fifty. Fifty deal that we know of all we know is that he was telling all around her paw

way to manipulate her, get her to agree, get her to saddle right. What is that settle soon, right now I knew was a deal on the table that he was trying to get people to commence and for all. We know that it was not an. ivar of her at all and hey ye. You dated you know, while you're married a guy that verbal the abusive and he's Conny names and each cheating on yeah and he's taken money and high it from you and you find this out before them, why would you settle? You should She had every right to go in there and try to get everything every penny that she felt she was worth or air, or every penny that she thought she deserved: well sandford and his friends. They claim in their depositions that elisa may.

worn, recording devices to instruct per instruction from her attorney and that she had tried to provoke sanford into arguments. So she could capture, them on tape. Now, there's more of this in the worst part, I find this to be the most damning of the evidence that is coming out against This really does nothing for the law suit against Sanford, but this should be a huge red flag with a spotlight on it. guarding the murder of a lisa sherman against taken from another deposition, one of those same friends and their deposition claimed in more than one occasion? Sanford inquired

how someone could get away with committing a perfect murder? At least one of these conversations occurred during a walk on a cleveland beach. The friends said that the friend sanford asked this of the. He was a worked in law enforcement or the law enforcement field, and when asked how the friend responded to such a question, the friends said he gave Sanford this scenario don't use your car or don't let your car be seen, don't use a gun because it can be heard. Don't use your street clothes you something that would cause we're up your entire body, your face your hands. Well right. Super chilling, because its describing what we see on the surveillance footage. We see, we see a person, fleeing the murder scene with no vehicle and no point do we see a vehicle

We see this person dressed head to toe and clothing is covering the entire body, just as he said, the face the hands according to Sanford's deposition, He said he probably had conversations about elisa, but could not recall nature of those conversations or where they occurred during Sanford's deposition, he was not asked directly about the perfect murder conversation. Sandford sherman has never been named as a suspect in elisa murder. The bizarre twist continue captain, in this case this twist takes us back to Gregory more a attorney bomb threats, you remember, he had the bomb threats, but there would be looking for it. Then it would be yeah. Remember this guy his bomb, the bomb threat.

But he would later be indicted on more charges. Gregory more was indicted on one count of tampering with evidence, one cow of obstructing official business. One count involves suffocation, one cow of telecommunication, telecommunications fraud and two counts of forgery, yeah. This is a scumbag yeah, but I think that the key thing here is a lot of these indictments have to do with the lisa sherman win win. Gregory more was indicted when the indictment was announced that then prosecutor said in us it meant. We believe that this indictment and the evidence behind it takes us one step closer to bringing elisa sherman's killer to justice, so make no buts about it. This this has to do with her murder with her case now. Gregory more has denied these allegations. Originally, he pledged not guilty. He was

general to appear in court in may of this year on unreal. aid charges. Those were from the the the bomb threat drivers inducing panic and laughter. He was playing not guilty to those charges as well. Now, let's talk about these new charges, because, according to process, where's, Gregory more, never met with elisa that day they claim he initially provided a statement to investigators that he was waiting in his office during the time of the attack, but but d a retrieved one year later, with the help of the fbi, the old cellphone ping they use this from a downtown cell tower. This suggested that he a lead. Lee lied about his location and misled elisa by other that's important information. All that one sentence right there

He allegedly lied about his location. This means where he told police He was during the time of the attack, but they are so follow that up with miss led elisa meaning he's telling her stuff in communication. That is true as well. So he's lying he's lying to the victim minutes before she's killed and then later the next day lying to the police when question about where he was and what he was doing right. But then you mess with the mother fucking F b I and they catch up, saw so. Let's I mean to me This really clear. He is telling her come down for a meeting on a sunday which- This is your normally not open right, so he's too

I come down he's telling her that he is there. He is not there. He is somewhere else, so he is basically putting her in place as that door. Is she able to get into the building for safety now? So he knows that wherever she parks that she's going to have to walk and remember if she like text him or something cause she didn't want to. Ah she wanted to meet him down there because she don't want to stay in the cold, because it's pretty cold out, so he knew that she had to walk from her car to the office building, but once she got to that office building the door was going to be locked, so she's a sitting duck right. it's basically what he set up. Would she have known that the door would have been locked? That's here, here's the reason! Why question that, because I've seen some of the communication back and forth between them,

and it almost appears to me, like the the door being locked, was a surprise to her and hears here's. Why threaded that might be accurate. You know When I used to work in downtown buildings, it was very typical that we would have front doors that would automatically lock at certain times and automatically unlock at certain times. So if you are expecting a lot of people in an hour, it's very tough for somebody to have their finger on that button and control the locking met near them to let people in and out during normal business hours monday through friday, when you expecting a lot of people coming and going But we also did one people just random showing up into the buildings, so typically at a certain, our leslie seven o clock at night monday, tuesday wednesday they friday. The door would automatically lock and then

One had to control somebody had to use a key card or a security personnel had to actually unlocked that door physically to let some one in here's what I'm getting at. I wonder, I'm guessing that if this is how they chose to do their meetings that she had been to this office on several occasions. Most of these occasions probably took place. we monday money and friday during typical business hours read. My guess is the door was locked. At a certain time on friday, five six p m, and it was Unlocked until the start of business on monday now people that worked in the building people that had cause to be there still have access, but they have to use a key card to enter or possibly even exit the building- and this is part of the the problem with Gregory more story

is that the I'm sure that the police found this before the f b I ever got to it. I think the f b, I probably helped them with the self out with the cell tower situation, but this is pretty simple information to get here. I think they had a record because there was. This was a key card system for this front door. probably had a record of grigory more coming and going that day a little or insight into the communication between elisa, Gregory more, it's my understanding that they were actually supposed to meet on the saturday, not on the sunday. They were scheduled to me saturday, I'm a little confused if that meeting actually took place well nigh think he called in the bomb threat. So they didn't have to. of the meeting. Well, what I mean by that is at some point. He has asked her to go to the this on sunday, and what I mean by that is, I dont know. Does that mean that the meeting went longer than

scheduled- and he said, hey, let's finish this up tomorrow, or did he not show up to the meeting or did he reach out to her and say: hey can't do this today? Let's do it tomorrow, right, for whatever reason they end up meeting on that sunday. This is unscheduled in advance. The most this could be excused escape in advance was at some point on saturday, and then on Sunday. More than once. For my understanding they didn't go. I do not have the specific wording on this information which was traded back and forth via, text from gregory more to elisa sherman, but at more than one occasion here back that meeting on Sunday as well so again, like I said, I mean he basically created a scenario that she's gonna

no matter what time they meet, you know no matter if she knows of the door's locked her. If she doesn't know is locked, that's I mean neither here nor there. For me, what he's doing is she's put in her in a situation where you know she's she to be like at the sitting duck traditionally if she has to sit there and at a locked door, did she didn't anticipate for it to be like that slowing her down on returning to her vehicle or getting into the the building in in the text messages that day exchange. She is telling him a young I'm down here the door's locked, but he says ok, on my way down to unlock the door he's on the fifth floor of this building, but he's not well he's supposed to be his office is on the fifth floor, she's gonna sit there and wait for a while for him to come down and unlocked the door Eventually he never comes down there and she text imbalances. Look it's cold out,

I am returning to my car so now only does he's he. I want to be very clear. He set up this meeting. This was not only the scheduling this meeting, he schedule this meaning and then via text, pretends to be in the location where he said he would be. To the point where she eventually says, look called out here and walk back to my car law on this guy that doesn't returning. Cause doesn't return. Your emails you've had to have it continuance after continuance, because he's not ready, I mean she, you know she had a good lawyer before that she was happy with She has this guy and she doesn't want this lawyer anymore, but it's too late in your own, laid in the game so to be clear process. peters alleged that Gregory more sent elisa text messages stating that he was in his office at the time she was attacked, but phone records, electronic key card data and witness

Statements show that Gregory more left his his office one hour before a leases it was murdered and didn't return, until one hour after police found her bleeding outside when investigators did to follow up with Gregory more regarding his whereabouts, he refused to cooperate. He started refusing to collapse. rate after they presented this information to him. Saying hey, look, you told us a story for a made up story before we want the real deal. This time more has denied that he lied to Elisa or the police. My boy have it on record that he lied and one investigator said the river in referring to Gregory more said, he's got some questions to answer, and hopefully that will come out and court he's not talking to us but if you don't have anything to hide, why wouldn't you talk to us? This guy seems like a weasel psych. I really think if they hold his feet,

Fire, they're gonna get some more information. So clearly, these the two that are the main suspects in the eyes of the public, and I think rightfully so I mean there's there's a lot on both of these guys and what I think turning to show through and shine through a little bit here is it. It looks to me like police and law enforcement or off LISA bishop about Gregory more in particular. So there's there's also there, sir to think about here, and we have a lot more to get too and it looks like we have to get to that in episode if you would like to check out our merchandise in our old episodes as well as bonus episodes. You can do that by going to tools crime, garage dot com, and I hope this for partners helpin ever bay out through the holiday work week gap we will see you back here in the garage for episode for until then be good, be kind and don't litter

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