« True Crime Garage

The Phantom Killer ////// 01

2015-11-13 | 🔗

The Phantom Killer /// Episode 1

True Crime Garage


Beer Fund: https://truecrimegarage.com/home

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
The the
the texarkana moonlight. Murders are the unsolved, violent crimes committed in and around texarkana, at the spring of nineteen, forty six by an unidentified serial killer, known as the phantom killer, who attacked the people within ten weeks, five of the eight were killed. The attacks happen on weekends. Between February twenty, two nineteen, forty six and made three point: six. There were four attacks: each attack apparently attempting to commit double murder. Contrary to popular belief, the killer did not protect during a full moon, but did strike late at night. The murders sent the town of texarkana into a state of panic throughout the summer and nineteen. Seventy six of the film, the town that dreaded sundown, was released loosely based on the events. The first attack committed on February twenty second nineteen, forty six around midnight, Jimmy Hollis, twenty five and his girlfriend mary, jean Marie age, nineteen were attacked while parked on a secluded road. The attack happened about fifty feet off of richmond road on an unpaved street about one hundred yards from the last row of city homes. The couple had only been parked for about ten minutes. When a man walked up the house's driver side door, blinding him with the flashlight, the man had a pistol and told him to get out of the car. Both of the victims got out through the driver side door. The man told hollis to take off his bridges after hours removed his trousers. He was struck twice in the head with a heavy blunt object. The attacker then struck lorene with a heavy blunt object. She would later say that she felt like she was hit with an iron pipe. After being attacked, she tried to escape running up the road she saw. An older car parked further down the street facing their vehicle. She quickly looked inside to see if anyone could help her, but after seeing no one, she began to run, but then she was once again overtaken by the attack. The man asked her. While she was running she told him. You told me to run he called her a liar and he began to attack her again. He knocked her to the ground and sexually assaulted. Her later reports indicated that the assailant sexually assaulted her with the barrel of his gun. The reed ran to a neighboring home seeking refuge. The attacker then play the lottery later, would describe the assailant as a man with a white mask over his head cut out places for the eyes and mouth, because Hollis was blinded by the flashlight before being beaten. He did not notice the mask. Although Hollis believed he was a dark tan white man.
Larry believed he was alive. Skin african american
because of the way he pronounced his curse words, but they both agreed. It was about six feet tall. The second attack richard griffin, age. Twenty nine and polly and more age seventeen were found dead and Griffin's. Nineteen forty one pulse mobile sedan on sunday morning march. Twenty four nineteen, forty six between eight thirty and nine, am by passing by motors ribbon, was found between the front seats on his knees. With his head resting on his crossed hands in his pockets were turned inside out, miss moore was found, sprawled face down in the backseat griffin had been shot twice while still in the car, and both had been shot once in the back of the head was fully clothed. Moore's purse was beside her in the backseat. According to the police report, written by arkansas state trooper, max tackett moore was killed on a blanket in front of the vehicle before being placed back into the mix up, Moore's body was picked up before an examination could be determined if she had been sexually assaulted. The couple was last seen having dinner with Gribben sister and her boyfriend around ten pm saturday night in a cafe on west seventh street, the saturday night April, thirteen betty, JO booker age fifty was playing her saxophone in a regular gig with her band at the vfw. She did not finish until about one thirty in the morning. She waited for her friend Paul Martin age. Sixteen to pick her up. He had been with her earlier that day before the dance was to take her to a smaller party across town, booker and Martin were killed early sunday before fourteen martin's body was found at about six thirty am by MR and mrs gh weaver and their son to drove two hundred yards. The nearest residents to contact police Martin's body was found lying on the left side by the northern side of the north park. Road blood was found further down on the other side of the road by a fence he had been shot four times. Booker's body was not found until approximately eleven thirty am almost two miles away. Her body was laying on it's back fully clothed with the right hand. In the pocket, the button overcoat booker had been shot twice. The weapon used was the same as the first double the thirty two automatic colt pistol. The reports in the following day's newspaper said that the bodies were not abused, but later reports claim that booker had been raped.
authorities were not sure who was shot first sheriff brazenly and texas rangers examinations of the bodies indicated
they both put up a terrific struck on friday may. Third, sometime before nine pm, Virgil starts age. Thirty, seven, a farmer and welder, was in his ranch style house on his five hundred acre farm almost ten miles northeast of texarkana. He sat in his armchair in the sitting, room, which was just off the kitchen in the bedroom, while his wife was in her bedroom lying on the bed in her nightgown, she heard something from the backyard and asked Virgil to turn down the radio seconds later, two shots were fired into the back of his head from a closed double window three feet away. His wife did not hear the gunshots. Instead, she heard what sounded like the breaking of the glass. She thought. Virgil had dropped something and went to see what had happened as she entered the doorway to the living room. She saw Virgil standing up suddenly slumped back down into his chair. She saw blood and then ran to the phone. The police, while calling she was shot twice in the face from the same one. One bullet entered her right, cheek and exited from the left ear. The other went into her lower jaw just below the lip breaking. It splintering out several teeth before lodging in her tongue. She dropped to her knees, but she managed to get on her feet. She ran. She ran to get a pistol from the living room, but she was blinded by her own blood. She heard the killer tearing loose the rest of the screen wire on the back porch. Mrs starks thought she was going to be killed, so she stumbled towards her bedroom near the front of the house to leave a note. Meanwhile, the killer ran to the back of the home and made his way up the steps through the back screen door. She heard the killer coming through the kitchen window, so she turned around and ran through the dining room and then through the bedroom and down the hallway through another bedroom and then into the living room and out the front door, leaving behind a virtual red river of blood, the teeth throughout the house across the street to a neighbor's, the were talking,
the moon light murders that taxes are canna moonlight murders, or the phantom killer right He got the moonlight murders and I keep thinking like the name. I think and killers great. my crazy, but no I like the venom pillar better. Yes, it s a place. I think that the tab, that's what what I found listed under more often than not really text can cannot move my murders yeah, I think, maybe only because, like hollywood in stuff that maybe the killers like too broad, like maybe you could use it for now- think about ba, actually more popular by calling that, because of the hollywood and all that stuff. It's
to me, texarkana moonlight murders sounds like something that happened in the forties where phantom killer kind of sounds like maybe a video game of, or maybe something that happened like it's more like scream ask you know the movie scream like yeah but see the words like when they talk about this mass killer, there's only only one person or wait two people, actually claim they saw a guy with a mass, although people died and then the people that debt I then starts she didn't die, but she unseen by so basically got two people, that's all mask, and then there, like a man, skywards mask Joseph killing people think the mask adds to it. But I also think that this is the word phantom is more for like oh well, you know that this the sun down in the face comes out. The sun comes up in a phantom goes away. You know, like we don't know who this mystery person is. He must be a ghost. He must be a phantom yeah them moonlight. Stuff came.
They come on, claiming that all the murders were happening on former. What is a former of which, which we found out that that's not yet said the but I think a lot of people put this beer out there, because they want to make it seem a lot bigger better than it is. You know, I mean yeah there, some dead people on that socks, but I think every time you take a crime any scenario they want to make bigger, Then what it is you know when sake, and I think the mask makes it bigger. You, like, I all the guy's weren't a mask, nearly one, the mask in the title Think that goes back with you know we're talking about a time where there is a lot of clue. Clicks clan activity, especially in the area. So I think the mask makes it. More dramatic
Thank you. people talk about, like the executioner mask, maybe ass, a symbol for that I overall is a fascinating case, because there's. Maybe two hundred suspects and out of those two under suspect there, canada to that, come to the front like the major characters of the story, nobody's charged with this martyr. No one's been yeah, there's been some people apprehended in and interrogated and interviewed whenever you want to call it. Even some lie detector tests that having kinda but no one that is actually ever been charged any of the murders, let alone all or anything, loosely based on the crime in these are
essentially the four cases. The first three attacks are younger, people parked in cars, coeds guy and a girl part. The car. We don't know if they're just talking earth there evolved in some kind of romantic situation, but Ideally, what we're being told us a maniac comes up and decides to, in their lives and for whatever reason- and but this is a nineteen forties, and this is something that we have seen before. You know like similar to the zodiac you know, zodiac did did similar killings and as similar attacks right sixties. I play sixties and the who Edward wayne, edwards was was convicted of of similar attacks yeah and there were the the it was something that the was more frequent back then
you know then it is today. You know. Unfortunately, today we have school shootings in you know air, what shootings and things like that are. This happened a lot more than I think people would want. I met lawyer, but for whatever reason, because of this small town- and it is pretty much nothing town, I mean we're talking about town that you know after the murders. Ah, you know at spring, like part, every year that play the movie. A dread. Sundown play the movie ever he her brain is like halloween or wiener wet summertime. Think things summertime. Those colleagues in the honour of the of the anniversary of the killings and that strange
but if your town has no leg to stand on that, but note not, but not so much the honour of the killings, but the honor of maybe not maybe honours the wrong word, but it you but right right, but the end of its ghana verse rule of something that may be the biggest thing that ever happened in their right. But that's like celebrating something you're right now: yeah we're gonna have a fireworks afterwards, I don't know, but they stop doing that If they should it's a bit creepy like because some weirdo is going to come out of the woods one day and yeah the one that was the whole thing was they come on saying: hey you're, setting yourself up for a copycat killing, even though these didn't take place, a full moon. You know We saw them dead, though, but I had said earlier that this is like reminiscent of the wolf man. You know they like that every so often every couple weeks this the sun goes down and this maniac comes out and he's got a fine. fresh blood like it and then then a couple weeks later, the same thing
which you know this law. The detective start about saying that this guy was probably the sex crazed. Mania ended There's probably some validity to that, because you know this guy goes. I may, I think it's a rush either way so the strike its rush from attacking these victims, and then he got lots ago, kind of state love low. Then I think then pass comes back and that's why you see this. This gap in time but then after it start shooting. Nothing is its disappears months later. They have a rest. Will it? before you go too far. Go kind of through the for tax, just briefly touch on briefly and that we can get into some sense banks and stop the first attack,
there's some weird things that happen. Okay, so if it the attackers intention was double murder rank. He he or she was unsuccessful yeah, both victims survive. It sounds the gentle the his skull. was fractured like three times yet whose in the hospital right seven eight months like a long time, he's he's violently attacked right, there's no clear indication of exactly what happens to the to the young lady. I mean it sounds like she was physically attacked that I mean assaulted in some manner, but there is also a sexual assault. Yeah did did little unclear of that. It sounds like you know that the salient gets, both that of the vehicle verbally and then attacks the mail and
then he goes after the female yeah and I think It's a lot of those details are unclear. I mean you're also talking about two suspects that claim he is either black or light skin or two victims, victims in their state that that was the other interesting thing about. Maybe there's a hicks has warehouse on how well so we find out. We we, speculated that she, the the young lady, was assaulted with the barrel of sexually assaulted, with the barrel of a gun and She later tells police that this was a mask. Man he's wearing a mass with holes, cut out for the eyes and all- and I read a whole can often mouth as well she thinks that the attacker is an african american verse right and she says this. You know
obviously, maybe because she could see in the holes or whenever one it again. It's dark! You know he's the attacker as a flashlight gun, which will make sense because look of its full moon so there is light source so creating shadows saw it. Mass is not completely flush, it gets. skin you, might see a shadow of the eyes and and to darker because of the because contrast. She says, though they were convinced. Her the easy african american is accurate, afghan american the way he pronounced certain words when he was talking to her yelling at her. Whenever now The
police later say no, no you're wrong. This could not have been an african american verse and right profiling. This this more than likely with somebody you know and yeah. I think most of the time with killings like this, it is normally somebody that you now, of course, You know there are there, times where it's less? This have things be completely random? but I think in such a small town I mean you talk about place. Everybody knows your name. Will the investigators also didn't know that their work going to be reviewed? attacks right right right, so you wouldn't one would assume haley's. So my nose, you so now. The guy, though says This was a light skinned door. Skin white man. Now books
and white man, so I did tat at hand and kissed it. A leather. Each person is really the leathery swarthy he's leather face, We solved it, but They have two different accounts of the attack. They both agree that the attacker was six foot tall, approximately six would talk right and to me, was interesting that they are different. Ideas of who yeah. I mean, I think, that's interesting birthing, it's pretty simple land, She has gone down. Edith Aida, see things become fuzzy it. That is obviously was a most stressful part of a man. You look at like that Kennedy said, sas or wherever you have all these different out does that mean there is a conspiracy. Who knows it's that? But this guy
five shots. Well because it adrenaline flowing, and things like that, and I think that's where they got confused. Maybe it is Maybe it is dark skin guy who not now both of them did not only today, couldn't agree on light skin black manner, dark skin white man right. They agreed foot tall, but they also they both sad. that this individual believed who, if he attacked again, he would kill they both believe, especially the boy believed it did. He mean that the EU thinks he was only spare because he thought the attack or thought he was dead right, which had beaten to death and the cops are not certain of what he was attacking them with the girls ass. She felt like she was hit with a lead pipe, but
we speculate, maybe was the the the butt of a gun or a flashlight or flashlight might buy and I think I think it's kind of some indication that it was and may possibly the dude. Time kill anybody. attacking anybody creeping up on him. Whatever you know, I made an experience and didn't seem to be certain of what it was he wanted to do with the girl either. It seem like because he He chases her salt, sir, let's go and then chases are again, and you know in she says to the cops, it didn't make any sense of what this guy was saying to me, because he tells me to run he says, get adequate. I take off running, then later he catches up to me, and he says why did you
Where were you going? You know any. She says you told me to rise. He calls or a liar and and and never answer again The boy said the same thing that did that the attack or made no sense the things he was saying to him right, which could possibly do speak. It is a sexual mania height like it later who's in every sense of the phrase. It's a mania. This guy is african while, but but That also goes with the idea of maybe doesn't know what he wants to do today. Maybe maybe he went up there to steal a car and then he decides like oh will crap. I guess his car there's two people in it. Now I got it, you know go rambo on everybody. Or maybe it was to be sexual with a girl, so he attacked the guy harder and then kind of got to the point where he wasn't gonna eat. I mean like.
Why do you want to remind you? He did ask about money. Did it? did asked the boy Why, for his wallet correct and then the girl says: well, we he doesn't have any money, actresses know you're lying you have in and points out that she has a purse. I dont know that he goes through the purse but mine, but there was some indication that that that is a robbery gone back there from there it from the victims accounts. Yes, that's what what was mentioned those are just the things that I found that were weird about the first attack yeah. It is in my view, on saying first attack, because if it's the first time if it's the first intact attack, there's people that say that this is not related to some of the other crimes or rain. That's all The second attack nuke,
the first attack. We know the most about because both of the people that were attacked survived reiner able to give some account of what took place. The second attack both victims unfortunately did not survive. so we we know less about this one. But there were some interesting things about this. It is like the kind of jumped off the. to me was there was blanket. There was found. and I can't remember if this blake was found in the vehicle outside of the vehicle. there was some speculation that maybe the girl and all the boy war removed from the car at one point and put back into the car rail after they were, or that they were killed outside the car and then put it back in which which is interesting, but it now is the one that the girl shot in the face-
this was richard griffin, aged twenty, nine and polly and more each seventeen and if you look up like a view, do like a google search for like the phantom killer or the moonlight murders. I think the first thing that pops up wise is polly ends graveside actually, guys I saw them so grip was found between front seats on his knees with it. head resting on his on his hands, but that his hands are crossed in his pockets were turned inside out, paulie more was found sprawled face down in the back seat the boy had been shot twice, while still in the car, both had been shot one. in the back of the head and why, fully clothed notes that I have
Polly more. Her purse was beside her in the back seat, so the pockets turned inside out as a little weird given them Again you talk about the next killin, that's the one where the girls found with our hand in her pocket. So maybe the site mass and was stuff to some early in life it looked searching for money. Searching for souvenirs, you know, could be Anything like that georgia's forces disruption of the coup I'm seeing you know there was there were one inspector one detected that said that this was some kind of genius criminal. Who was perfectly not leaving anything behind and for them to detect who he was echoed. It simple, as a robbery, worse, always starts out as a robbery. Gimme, your money- I have anything guy pulls out his pockets.
To show you don't have anything than the killing happens. Man that's possible I think everybody likes to just jump to these super conclusions right away. I think that's work we'll get travel as well, and because you listen to this podcast, you know that there are some days. I can barely speak english, which may surprise you, when you hear that I be fun to learn. Another language port he's french spanish, but about you, have you thought about learning another language. Reset a stone is where you need to go because they are the expert and language learning for the last three years and with the regime stone, app, you'll be able to learn anywhere anytime. You can choose from five languages in which really cool is. this immersive method of teaching that allows you to learn. Realized scenarios like how much the jogged, strudel or hey where's, mercenaries, bathroom for
at a time the moroccans pod podcast listeners. That's: u can get rosetta stones lifetime unlimited subscription, which gives you access to all twenty five of their languages forever for forty percent off visit, rosetta, stone, dotcom, slash mel today, that's rosetta, sound dotcom, slash mill, they parents want to give their children extra academic support can be overwhelming and expensive to get, right resources. I excel First, all the learning tools, your family needs on one side from pre to twelve great making it simple to I d if I exactly what each child needs to work on with students learning a virtual classrooms? Recently, it's not uncommon for them to need a little extra review. I excel is the most comprehensive online learning programme covering math language, art, science and social studies, its assent, space for children to make mistakes and grow on. I accept
they'll, find videos, lessons and sample. Bravo, the breakdown tricky topics when they get back, This questions wrong, they'll, get clear, explanations and as they master topics, they'll get positive, feedback to help them build confidence and have fun learning membership start at nine dollars and ninety five cents per month. So it's much more affordable than a private tutor and flexible. I accept even proven effective by research. Studies nationwide have shown the students who use, I accept our scoring higher on test for a the time true grime garage listeners can get twenty percent off. I exile membership visit. I exe dot com slash garage today raise episode is sponsored by pay pow honey, the easy way to save when shopping on your iphone or computer its nose. secret. You take,
look around in the prices of everything are going up up up with her prices. How does it feel when you do find a deal it gets excited. And it's a relief. thanks. The honey manually searching for coupon codes is a thing of the past honey. Is the free having tool. scours the internet for promo codes and applies The best one it finds to your court. Imagine your shopping on one of your favorite sites. When you check out the honey, but an appears and all you have to do. Is click apply, cupids, wait. A few say as honey searches for coupons available for that site. If finds a working group on your watch? the prices drop, drop drop, I love using honey and I love using it on my iphone because I'm on the girl and friday night is pizza night for yours. Truly, I'm saving on those delicious slices every week with honey honey does
just work on your desktop. It works on your iphone to just activated, safari on your phone and say, on the girl, if you already have honey. You could be seen up missing out and by getting it you'll doing yourself a solid in supporting this show, get pay pal hunting for free. join honey, dot com, slash garage there join honey, dot com, slash garage. I just don't think is the intelligent thing to do. Well, The other thing that I thought was interesting was that blanket that I would mention they had determined or believed that the One or more of the shots fired, we're fine? through the blanket Are you sure you know I'm trying to think of myself as this maniac? What any whose whose doing they attack. What's that Purpose of me doing this is doing that, because I want to me
for the same. Obviously, probably muffled the sound of my organ blast or the outside of the car underneath the sheets hiding beneath the sheets. if there were or inside the sheet right or in the car under the sheets, whatever carry them make an hour ago blanket on just case someone comes, I mean that It says, guy role up on their making up bomb. Now that and explain the pockets theory my boy, the theory of the guy poor, eight employer. Pockets show you don't have anything, but I mean logical reasons why a matter could think of it as muffling, I think of ass. He shot him through it shooting and threw it seems more likely if, if you work as far as to use the blanket which I'm assuming had already be there or, if find the killer on bringing a blanket with me, I would think you would be able to they would
use their somehow to find out who I am right, right, yeah it more likely that the couple brought the blanket, but I mean it if someone were to use that blanket, regardless of whether it was there are not and in a method to silence their weapon as it as it a makeshift silencer, run, shows you, the the ass, the nature of their intentions. You know what I mean it's almost like: they wanted to neither a which is the most obvious to avoid detection avoid. You know somebody else and that this hearing this attack in sending the police, or I witnessing the attack and theory, is that this guy's on foot this guy on foot, saw no. If you're so worried about sound. I mean you're worried about silence some level, but we're talking about in the forties, we're talking about people gone to bed
a lot earlier, but in the first attack the beam, victim, when running from the usa says she came across a part vehicle, with no one in it, which would point Who did the guy that maybe car belong to the attack and there's no way of knowing for certain it could have just been a car parked, as said before, they were a hundred yards away from from a residence yeah, I mean it's a pretty heavy heavily residential area anyways an inspired park, so could have been some another couple out there, May you got a car by crime scene. That's one hell of a lead. You know more importantly, to described that car than it is to describe this black skin, dark guy right,
african american white, my man in the end a strong whitey under the bus canada, blackmail but dont youth, youth I think it is. I'm sure everybody else would as well that because of the racial tension back then, and because you said that you know there was, there was kkk activity and they were trying to shut it down. So I think a lot of that thing was like all shit. They just said black guy, that's I mean. What are your mother forties? Do you think that's it tell tale sign of what actually happened, though? Do you think that do you think that the sailor was was african american or do you think that in the end, cops say no. No, we can't let this get out or we're going to have riots on our wall. That's why the saying about lynchings, that's what to say about responsibility, and I think what happens with people is they let you have responsibility as a human to be intelligent.
You you have that responsibility and I think a lot of these cases. I go and solved. The reason why they go on soft is: could you do have this window opportunity start figuring out what the hell happened? that's what you have in all these cases, but what happens when they start leading you down the wrong rather an It's a problem think what happens too often as they just the of their mind, who they wanted to be and they make anything else, fits fit the crime so If I said to you, you know why I actually think Dahmer did this. I'm sure. If you give me enough time, I can try to make this This is what I'm saying like for for a crime, not necessarily a car that have a nineteen, forty, six right, I'm just saying for any crime or just any sir or serial killer, suspect
around nineteen. Forty six and I could try they make a case, for is what I'm saying in the end, If you only heard of the three to five minute long conversation that I gave you all my points, you go well possible as very possible. so I think, lies the problem with this. it is these guys that but they're not being responsible other jobs conclusions really quickly and So you answer my question about the the african american guire, the white guide: you is it just. it just the police trying to say no. It can't be because we can have that kind of activity or do you think they why take? play that often still fully in the end, it is as if it's a full moon, its former. and you got a mask on and the like a set of the mask is a flush.
Then you run a guess in shadow, so I could see you assuming or the victims, assuming hey, guess what I think was a black eye, and I would say there had reason to then and there The way he talked yeah we got all these things so was a black eye first crime, maybe it was and then maybe the maybe the costs for assuming search so much that I wasn't a black eye, the white guy, can make this racial thing, but I think a lot of times in these cases these cops their job to conclusions, and I think it's just like. While we were talking about max packet, you know he is he's the rocky cobb rookie his ranger or something of that nature was a detective, taxes ranger I know the rangers were. I know the
I been a straight city, carbon, I'm not for sure, but I know he's the one that came up with this theory that all You notice that there is a third the cargoes missing every night that a murder took them, a stolen, the stolen vehicle, and so that kind of leads him down a certain path. Will but the thing it with these crimes are with all for these attacks. There we oh just enough about him and I get the feeling that the police knew just enough about him at the time that it's dangerous enough to know that it's dangerous did that its convoluted? You know you get these little facts from the first case. You get a little facts from the second case and then in the third attack. We had this weird saxophone case throws everything all right, you know and then, and that the murders happen technically in two different places. Right, like I mean there is, there is no attack
movement of the scene attack now When you say that you mean you mean what what do you mean well at some point- and this is why I think they knew him. I think it's point this attacker gets in the car. because, like guys, bodies found one through the girl is betty, Joe booker age, team, playing plead the alto sex and the ban in the band at the VFW club and then her friend Paul, more hc, team picks her up to drive her home or no. No. driver to slumber party. After it, they played the betty. Jo booker played the vfw for your life. He was in the ban to write, or was he just ass? He was
is providing transportation to see yes, but he was at the back most likely right this data actually expect her to go home with him. Now They thought he was wont, go home. She was gonna homeless. Somebody else ever hear that very I've heard, at the early and so then when when then the murderer happen, like I don't think the job the conclusion right, whether they were together, because he and dying not that far. from where she died, where her body was found, whose confound one part of the lake and shoes like almost like he dumped the dude he's gonna focus on the czech and then their warm they're going down that they move the car Morton's nineteen, forty six ford club coop was founded. three miles away from Betty Joe
workers by right, but that they do was found away from her to see that, where it gets weird, that's nothing I mean yes it's a similar crime in the fact that there's two young people right there. Vehicle involved, a name probably wherein the vehicle when attacked right, however, or near their vehicle when they were attacked, however, is completely different in the sense where that, in this I can attack where the two were found inside the vehicle. You know what I mean: they're left there inside the vehicle now at one and then, like you said before it was possibility that they were killed outside vehicle and put back in So why the hell are they put back end of that size? Emma it's weird, because it's almost like how much time did this attacker have with these people during the process of killing them or after they were killed, but that's where I believe, the guy new,
Ah he because he wanted to spend time with them. the I think I think some of this stuff is just that this stuff, a hand you can't and the stuff. You can't plant house somebody gonna reacts the thirty two automatic colt pistol was used in the third attack, which was the same. The first anniversary of the same in the first double murder, which was the second attack. So that's I mean then I waited mean you lincoln through their pleasant right yeah, but yeah, so bad my saxophone, the the saxophone case was super weird to me. thing was found elsewhere. Right here was found, is found closer to mary, Joe booker's.
The JO booker's body, yeah amazon with these guys were apparent offence that I find it to later, like six months later, is about, it's my wasn't, that is, it was almost like. It was ditch somehow, which goes One of my theories- you know that guy noon with its view that the to me is weird, it's like. Ok, why you know you take this acts of own case. You take it off of the person or take it from the vehicle vehicle afterwards in the new dump it I mean she's, found all the way, far away from the vehicle, yet the saxophone cases found hundred yards from her. two hundred yards from her it's It sounds a lot closer to her than the vehicle was. The vehicle is close to three miles yeah. But I wonder if these one or two wasn't dead. And she moved they move
This she was moved after the fact Maybe she was don't know she was dumped there and then the boy and the vehicle removed, but dies. First, he dies sneeze dont. First. How do we know that? I don't know we don't have any living witnesses to the crime other than the killer. they assumed because whatever path The guy was taken and you know that. it would make more sense, disguise dump you go this way. That's us assuming and I think trouble by that and again, that's where I think. Sometimes you can assume and a good way and say some others due to be totally random, or this guy was
go in a certain way and and act in a certain way. So killed. First I think it makes more, I think, more sense, that way make more sense to kill them. The man for guiding had sexual intentions, unless you have sexual attention towards the dude and then, if you add sexual intentions towards the dude, killed chick right, you know Does it not essential, essentially the whoever you, want to sexually assaulted, just in the way, the fourth a deep you find it or whether for the deck yeah, here for safe keeping house about a third of the fourth day was Virgil starts and his wife in my homeland for the text. But for me you got back
the common position, but this one's completely different, because this is older people in- and I don't mean like elderly people. This virtual starts he's a third like thirty, seven years old and he laughed elderly like back in the day and his wife, the elderly. This tim and his wife at home. Their attack that home there not they are there there their double if, if not triple the age of of, said the other victims. Well, that's where this, that's where you get alot of gray in this case is the this one leg to the southern in third reich. Is the fourth one linked to the second and third Zactly, or even the first for their rights. it is possible that you just have a robbery. First, one why did I end up dead, splat? Guy
and at some kid in the local community or some thief and local community goes hague has what is a great idea This one sounds: super weird to me, and actually it's way off the beaten path of dollar once yeah, But the reason why that makes sense, though, that you can act on one time line pretty cool. Yeah I mean all the stuff happen in within it couple months of another by ever. All the attacks happened between february twenty second in may, third Yes, there, I think, that's where you can assume that it's part of it I think the other thing to is that we're talking about the movie that they made about this crime is called the town that dread Sundown and we haven't really highlighted was at some point. The this town is on a curfew to be inside by the time it's dark. Yeah
we like to say all while we knew what time to get home because was some went down at we didn't needs Our phones, you idiots You use lots hundreds day, pass: sundown universal summer mindset and and schools winding down and all that stuff. But You got a town, that's kind of lockdown, so if you got this hunter Humans going around and trying to to commit crimes. Logical that hey all these people are There's not as many people out there's, not people stopping at lover's lane, but it's also different because there's no and I guess I'm just assuming that with the second and third tat, there was interaction between the killer and the victims, but this for, tat. There is no
There is no interaction in and we have the wife's survives. The wife survives right how the hell she survived. I dont know where he saw her face right, Let me she lost ready in my area the wonder of easily. They said most of the time, the amount of blood that she and loss was person would not have yet to see because she went to check on the husband after a shot through a window, the victim, the attacker, didn't even come into the home. Again, though I mean you talk about really hot area of the country and its pretty hot. So Well, I may things are warming up, it's it's yeah and I I would assume if you're parked in a car, you're rolling down those windows. So some of these people could have just been. Can you come up execution style bomb you dead, Maybe there's no interaction like I said go away. People are out as mine
or maybe it's connected, because the person knows him. You know it's possible today. All these people are linked by somebody that knows all of the victims and because it's it's a pretty spot Now you know so I think it's likely that there. there's no theirs. No of the case that states- the reason why this guy's killing why he killed all of them, let alone any of them. I think a lot of this stuff is a coincidence, especially even like the last one. Oh well, the the husband was there and the wife was there. Maybe his intent was not to kill all of them. the guy. He noticed there the wife checks on the guy and then she's making a call to the police There I'm going shop Maybe she saw me It does make it
interesting to me is that the killer did stop. Once one of people being attacked ends up being in touch with somebody else. So the first attack The girl runs these to the house somewhere banging on the door wakes up the people, people were awake killer fleets runs away whenever the guy the boy says he that he thought that did passing cars. It scared the after alright use. Here's the thing the final attacking the fourth attack. He has killed the man shot, the wife twice, and she runs to two different homes before she can find someone to help her out and then he's gone again. So maybe he doesn't go after her.
Didn't you chase after me is what she claims that wealth he tried to go into the home after her once he realized she wasn't dead. Yet you raised, but he ran out of the home, please the home and goes to another residents and get someone to call them and nothing was stolen. Nothin was stolen, It's weird, it's like a standing outside the home shooting through the window feels like it hit me like. It's like. I like a hit law, and there is. There is a theory that there were guy that live the couple houses down there. Bunch of gambling problems- and we all know maybe starks- had gambling problems- will now may weaken There is only so. I mean you can only go off of what is presented and if the cops don't have any link two did he have any gambling prowess men, possibly its ahead, that's possible and and or is
It's also possible that the that guy down the street owed money to somebody and they got the wrong house, it's possible to now our suspects are the first aspect. in actually. This is a very popular suspect. Is this you'll sweeney now he's here. Discovered because Guy tag it he's. Not my guy well la brought about right. He's a is a guy that I think is jumping to conclusions pretty quickly. You l sweeney, and he says it you will sweeney- is the guy, because of of why his gun, friend or wife throws Mr Sweeney, under the bustle of supply. It starts off with the idea that pair cargoes messing missing every time. There is a martyr, ok, yeah he happens to notice the others a on on night, a b c and d there,
there was also a vehicle. There were stolen that right. And I would like to actually see those reports of its base on all four, after this three yards a coincidence. I think, something you look into use are looking through a thief, see it was a crime so not pay your ran. So that's, it had a landlord that call about your sweeney, because he didn't pay as ran so is this guy's a known thief? Shell these renewed its steel to sell stolen private property, yeah and the car thief yeah. I think- actually it's as always apprehended later yeah. I think I think its theory made sense and look you're a newbie, cop,
I mean you want to solve this crime. I mean I mean just in general, but I think also it's a bride of passage. You know you wanna man. If you could break this, this is the biggest thing that happened to your town, you could break this you know it'd, be the I mean you talk about sheriff status, eventually you know, I mean that's it you know as much as people want to commit these crimes. As much as these cops want to solve these crimes, so sweeneys apprehended, I believe he was ever ended in the georgia. Trying to sell a stolen vehicle or or having just sold is stalling vehicle. his girlfriend or wife at the time, the one did story El police did you know he killed. These people
he dumped the saxophone case, his wife Did she was she says, she's along? for the ride on a couple of these yeah, but That's he comes running back to the car and this is all This is all a legibly just when tat it goes to arrest them, he says: don't shoe right Supposedly yours when he says, don't shoot I wish you d get shot for you know young. shot for stealing cars. Ok hold up for You know I'm scared to death about being caught because that's life in prison. After so many robberies or stolen properties. You then get put in prison for life
So the guy's, not ok, if you get put in prison for life you're, not going to assume that this guy possibly could shoot you for that. and I also think it is a legibly that you said that right is cough. Saint mark attack its word yet agate packets, accountable, Why? And I think, then, that then it comes into play of this. Is this? Is it deal for attacking. If you can pass this case open, the big deal he said to me, don't shoot and you know, and he was afraid for his life and he and then there was another statement that Tackett said, sweeney said what was it? You think, the chair for this. and there's all this hearsay of what what he said, the time of the rest when driving them back I think a lot less hearsay you now and then
what they do. Is they? Basically, information to, swinging his wife's lawyer. stating we got him on more than just you know car robbery or that right we got em on on murder or something and so then she starts talking and she go like four different, accounts of what happened, Sometimes she said she was with them. Sometimes she said she was ah, she didn't pass a lie. Detector, which was horrible, if they ran this horrible lie. Detector. You know when you do a lie: detector, it's supposed to be yes or no answers. There weren't, yes or no answers most system. was just you know she being deceptive I'll, be in deceptive. Maybe because she wasn't there
you also going to about a scared person? You just married this dude, you don't know what he did these Cops are interrogating you, so who knows how those interrogations are going down and europe a former prostitute. So the on those levels. How much do you want to believe? You know these if this, is true or not, and I think the cops stop kind of pushing because they knew that no matter what they got, this guy on theft, anyways he's the use life and imprisoned either way whether for murder or for still cars, then up the only thing that's different is: if he's
but away from murders. Well, then, your target molly, the chair so either don't know how much I believe her word So sweeney apparently did own a thirty two call automatic. They didn't find Guess he had sold it at a crap game and then as you know, when he saw it right. They then you know so that's kind of her, your pointing towards him a finger pointing against him would be the his fingerprints did not match any of the latent prince found, booker martin crime scene. and a girl, Peggy sweeney, Eventually We cannot event it takes away her convention, Well, she never signed the convention. There's no actual, look our believe the confession!
a whole lot more. If she signed it, in we never confesses danny. Now, even when one did he passed away? I touched the, because he was interviewed later his time at home. blood, so started investigating later on in life, and he did interview with your sweeney and you can watch some. Allow you to and then eventually the people from their retirement home come in and say, hey, you can't record I remember what that others had just marked blood, so You sweeney interview kind of thing. If you look up the Van killer than there's a little toy man documentary on it. It's in that unlike the course, the investigators He will do in that. I've met her like we're so gloves. He also said
he almost said he didn't do it- that that's what they wanted to hear him say, but when ask him see. This is where people get so dramatic. He almost said he didn't do it Ask him before: did you do it they ask and before you're, your wife, your ex wife stated that you did do this. I said something like that line bitch, that's it gets it That's an honest. Always, an honest statement of him, that's like an honest reaction like yeah mean online bitch yeah, because it, I think it's ok, I knew you were going to find a workbench into the podcast. Did he actually say that I think so I believe hey, you know she's lying bitch and then I think then it comes into the what were the chances that he'd say almost line, ditch and then
then say: why did it that she's a lie in bed? I didn't have anything to do with. I killed him. I think that make sense and I don't think marked stop the interview afterwards. The thieves stop recording it and, if Yes, when he said I killed people. I was the phantom killer. I think mark Bledsoe then would be saying. I guess what I got a confession. You know so the other was noted fashion by yours. We were and no sign confession. My wife, so there are convinced she didn't wooden, ok, but alright one word answer this. You get one word you yes or no, I don't want you to liberate any off a gay you'll sweeney. Do you like him for these crimes? Yes or no? I thought we said one word now you sand yes, for now,
You make up your mind. You pick one view pick one other words. If yes are you picks yeah? I thought it was going to get to pick a word which I would pick bitch. I don't like him for these murders. Ok, what why ok, ok, If you were going to do an elaborate without me asking you yeah cause. That's what I told you I'm here, don't need to I'm here to tell the truth: no, I think, he's a common thief. I think made sense. You know the the cop max and then the lead investigator kind of thought. To this day, the kind of started put in all their eggs into one basket, which looks to be fair man, you less. I mean you're detectives of a small town in this shit's going down with guess why we need, put in as may eggs and a basket as we can and and and
You go down that whole as fast. As you can try to solve this. You know quickly. That's what they did, you know well, we I think we should say our hats or off to this detective hackett tack in her hackett tackled tag. It too Our answer after this detective tag it because he comes up with something these people reaching for strong in their ground and stronger regions over an answer, the airy and they get their guy really quickly. It's a nice led yet was wanted it that way. There now you molly
is peggy sweeney. Who knows why she said what she said, but but but that's where it's the idea of trying to take that square peg and put it into a round hole, but he's not so square, though, because he, he is a little more rounded a round hole because he is a career quote, unquote, career criminal. So to speak right right now, and- and so it makes sense for that, but it doesn't seem like he's a career, violent criminal brian like a saw like a robbery and assault but charge. But if you were going to attack people with The purpose of coming away with them coming away with some money. Why Are you gonna attack the young people? Young people, don't have any money I was broke until I'm still broke, but pending part can pathetic. You know, you know what I'm saying when you're younger there, these young p Unless you catch him on the right night on their birth, your christmas. They don't have any money right and then
the cars involve. There's cars involved in your seat, the vehicle in your known car theft and make way more says to me- is the the car was stolen. That night a murdered place in the car went missing as well. So now we got two cars message in one night He making more sense that he seems to me more of the type the. If, if a violent acts happens, take place or or if someone's assaulted, it's because he had do so to commit crimes the money- and there is one thing where the wife said that he was going to go into texarkana cause. He had to go, get money, one of the nights, then the murders took place, and I I just don't know what to believe from her stories and what not to believe from her stories. And then also there like. You know she talks about how he took the the saxophone case, but that he and up like decide the dump it.
that makes sense why the the sacks funds away from the girl How much are you leading the witness? How much I mean we don't have tapes of these interrogations, how much are you lead in the witness? How much information are you given her? and then there is a lot of stuff about this information wasn't leaked out to the public, ok fair enough, so she didn't know this information, You knew that information and you're the one trying to get her to confess to crime. So I think in the eye There's a good book written about it, the lead investigators grandson as now, word for the gazette and yeah presley press and so he wrote a book and basically santa get. This is the prime expect your sweeney shares.
All the information and I didn't read the book. I listen to lecture he gave on it and There's a lot is theirs. There's a lot of holes in it, and I think if you, I'm more convinced by something. If I hear and fifteen said thirty minutes. Thirty minutes that This is what happened and I can't poker. holes in it right away. I'm kind of lead does go down that path, something else comes up great, but I just start right away because I actually listen to his. youtube video first,
as a normal like she's. Can I get the first idea and go oh yeah. That makes a lot of sense and you kind go with that theory, before I even got any other suspects I kind of was ruined amount in my head. both are like career criminal you'll sweeney, as are guy the other popular suspect is someone who I think, The little more interesting is this age be. Do de the call of duty, yells Henderson, nickname was like duty, but what a great nicknamed we live in two ways, mother, like the must have maybe might be a things like method, man and yeah method. Man uses the term duty alive and analyses the south? What
for the first time I heard a lot of method, men and so on. He's he's way more fascinating, complete yeah and, and Furthermore, because he doesn't doesn't deny the crimes he they some people suspect he confessed to the crimes and he's no longer with us to say otherwise. I committed suicide and forty eight Ok, so it is, who is age be tensor tennis? So basically the time emerges about sixteen susan high school. So connected to all the people pretty much that way. Saw the murder suspects he lives roughly two point five miles from spring spring, like part,
go where most of the murders took place, so I pray didn't drive at that time Others loss suspicion that you know that, the family members say that he didn't actually he actually couldn't drive, which I think a little far fetched, adding back in the day to day people move there. parents, cars and stuff like that and how many times you sneak off with your parents, cars, you know when you're sixteen seventy what's, but that was different times. Ok, so november fifth, nineteen, forty eight an eighteen year old, freshmen henry booker duty a duty tennyson. from university of arkansas, was found dead in his bed at home in favour. arkansas, yeah, that's an that's where I
There is there's a lot of grey area on whether or not he was a suspect before this but when he was found dead, there's a dresser, On top of the dresser was a student folder a guy like legal folder, so I had all these notes, and basically there are a lot of suicide. Note and then there was a riddle found on the dresser as well. The opening to my box will be found in the following few lines. In a too, of paper is found rolls on colours and is dry and sound, it removes the tail will turn and inside is the sheet you you're to bees mean a lot when they are together? These clues should lead you to it. So the the sheet that you yearn is the suicide. Now, rather than he's, I mean that
There, sir? It's a scam, I mean there's always another with favours right He saying that the parents are gonna want to know why he's dead. Why there boy? Why? That, because is so duty, buys sign and he killed himself using cyanide. His parents find em they're gonna want to know why the hell is right about on the dresser theirs. file, files there are papers and reasons why he's dead so and then there's the rub, a no and a year, but that the answer to this riddle- Is this, put a no inside a b and be or a b b, fountain pen right. It right, up the no taken off onto the pen slip it in their screwed back on the cap. Rut and so they open up in just one.
What's in the in the ten, the common? revelation to what he has locked mars, so They open up the combination they open up the box. Bottom of black box. There's another note No, she was yes under a stack of papers was a no confessing to the texts are, cannot killings, the note red and I'm not going to read at all costs is a lengthy note, but basically He mentions did why did I take my own life? Well, when you committed, you double murders. You would do yes did kill. Betty Joe book booker and Paul Martin in the city park that night and killed mr starks, and tried to get mrs starks.
Yeah and which is all confusing because he says he's only commit his best thing to do well yeah, but he's he he's confessing to the to w he's saying. Well, we don't know the two double murders, but we're assuming that those are the two double murders he's taught so you're talking about salary, he's saying I committed to to double I committed to double murders which, yes, there would be two and three attacks, two and three, because both victims were killed in both those attacks. But then he says and killed MR starks and try to get mrs stars so he's also confessing to the attack number four, which would go with the theory that the first one was not the same thing and it was done by maybe a black guy that it was not connected right. So that's it. It was a robbery gone back there.
that's possible! You know it's weird, that you confess you know, but it I think that's a lot that stuff in either in high school. This guy, you don't people in high school. I know a lot more. What's going on in that town, then the most other people so maybe he knew for sure, like we said before that the cops were sent hush hush on this all black guy theory and maybe the rumours, got around and there's more conversation and I was like maybe the the girls said- hey look. There was a black guy. I know for a fact he's a black guy. That cops are on It can be serious on this now he himself. How long after The killing, so I'd I had just said, is like two years was eighty sixty eight, Yeah sea!
forty eight november, I november fit nineteen forty eight. I went down eighty eight to sixty eight forty, eight. There were yet so that I mean it's over two years, that's two and a half year. So in their saying that each be tennyson. Was six foot three. Now he could have grown you now in an yeah we're we're. Also now you're gonna get a growth spurt. Well, yeah you're, not the guy wasn't standing next to a giant. You know rule we don't know. Certainly right gradually writes about where I witness what I witnessed said, he was six foot tall, the first one and what color did they say was of the victim city, was light skin blackmail. man or lights get black man? That's a black man! not both of the the boy said: whiteman, dark, skinned white me, the girl said lions skin, like binary,
so yeah. Possibly they grew. Possibly he's I'm connected with that one. so that would rule out who cares if he's six, three and also another six. Six. Three rules amount. I'm also saying that that being two and a half years remove from the crimes could have very well been six foot at the time the guy was only eighteen when he killed himself. He could have very likely that a group of seed save the age of eighteen and a half day, and there was it then there's suspect that he had marvin's disease more This disease is willingly elongated, arms and legs in the very short torso kind of thing long fingers allows. Does it do anything the mentally or yeah? I mean that's. One of the theories is that if he had this, then brain is shaped differently and as thought power would be differently and the suicide. No he talks about. the he talks about having you, no fear
as for younger women, so that could yeah you're hanging out with say, you're. Sixteen you're hanging out with the twelve year old it's not that big age difference if you're, Twenty four and twenty. Sixteen in twelve spake different So people say no. No don't do that. Don't do that. It could be something that triggers you know. Inspiration. But I think, was the faxes. Yogurt talk about two point: five miles unlike we talked about this before view. Even this add a mile three point, five miles from the lake: that's not that far. now the paramount their theatre. This is where I find it pretty interesting,
so the first three murders are the first three murders were attempt. Murders is that One or both of the victims were at the theatre, the paramount theatre that day So that's You know, that's it you're connecting ok, you're connected. Those murders that way- and I mentioned that within where all the murders took place this three miles from all the people right something that's connection right there. I not imagine that he is made listen to the crimes? he's. Enforcing or there's a no its found written by someone after his death. how are the nose combination,
Maybe they set the common I don't want to get too far out there for you, but I'm just saying with us, not you know there are no in in a case. It is what happened answer. In a case it's that you know that seventy some years old, sixty some seventy some years old dont know that there is any definitive answer. Yes, because I mean what they dont also tell you whether or not that how the safe has like I mean It- could be one of those little sound more like a locked box type thing rather than a safe, I mean, but either way I mean what kind of clause wrong like a strong back. If you get those little tiny, What you owe little tiny ones when you're a kid and you just kind of moving back and forth, and you can kind of hear the combination and you get into it
but that doesn't make a lot to me. I'm a year you're leaving all these papers for people to find and you're killing yourself, that's pretty simple, you? He has no reason to confess to the crime right right. Well, there's no reason for him to confess to crime and and here's the other thing to is this: it's known that your sweeney was a prime suspect and he's a stood now you ve got charged with murders by but he's my as well, because he's sentence alive but it's almost like it's almost as if tennyson didn't want, you hit. His intentions were not to confess to the crime in order to take credit for that.
You didn't money, it didn't come after me like you, wanted. Any credit now comes onto forceful remorseful. Yes, but it also comes off to me like he owes his parents in explanation for his death yeah yeah. I think but look tat. He had no intention of his parents, making public yeah don't he thought so in the end and his parents and his family were big that community there are connected to the police officers. There are connected to the gazette, newspapers that sword, and I think it's one of those days were you got your sweeney he's away for armed robbery and then in fact, not armed robbery, but that And then you got this kid confessing to the crime and he's dead right. So I can Why the cops than the star again com?
it is this enough to make it all screwed up. Then you can't pieced together any kind of investigation. I mean they could have investigated, but but their motive not to write, but with the that these. If these are all connected all form. The way that it has always gone is the each attack given you enough clues just for the next attack, the kind of contradict those some of those where again we're saying the same thing. Yes, I will always love sweeneys locked up right. We think we got our guy boom. This kid kill himself in confesses to the murders right. It's just enough. Having sweeney locked up is just enough for you to think that this kid false conversion or confession to make you make you think that sweeneys innis yeah, I just Don'T- buy that you falsely confess crime on your death back right. I would you do that. I know why anybody would do that.
An end then hide it, because if it was for notoriety or anything, you would not hide it. You had sent a letter. put the mailbox due to to a newspaper and go I get my parents back, am and and guess what I did these murders and its public record my lot as our happen. He set up a riddle. What the cops find it possibly, and I think it was a way to go. Here's your answer. This is, why did what I did and, This is your way of also protecting family name. I think he was like you is an embarrassment. He talks about the thing I couldn't make the grade. I click on it. how we should listen to his parents in them. Yeah, and he talk about high love people, and I think part of it was just that you got this kid that you know messed up here.
Possible like some a younger than his age, people Tom, that's wrong. People tell him he's a dreamer, well. Tom is not doing enough, school and enough with his life and then he did this horrible thing as his way and on him there. of ways on you and guess what you gotta get off your chest and and I think he could. I don't think he thought that you could to do that and death that you just This kill myself never confessed to it, but why thing maybe also felt like he owed something to the people the community? possibly not because maybe that will never be public record his parents whenever then say so Ok, so my question to you: I thought I was gonna get asked the question, but I guess you just answered mind to go ahead. I guess so my question to you is: do you like tennyson,
As the So I like him better than sweeney. I definitely like him better sweeney. I have a bit of so looking for the evidence. So, okay, so we have the confession. That's that's a good sign that it's probably our guy. We also harriet sign that there is a borderline connection with him with some of the victims, its weight that is a written confession. Sign. Signed by him, not notarized. So it's good! There is no. He didn't go down to the bank and say: can you notarized before me republic, you know or yeah? That's. If I ever get myself and confessor crime, I'm gonna go down to the bank. If it was known arise, I would say you it s, not the case. get the confession: now you There were other things it
pointed him as having connections to these victims. We played in the band a play they played in the band with the one with the saxophone girl wreck, I believe that each returns and was a better job. Booker, I think, was a trombone player which, in the movie, town, a dread sundown they, switch. The science phone for trombone and people are like all while they just took some- are too the licence, will maybe they did it because he the trombone to kill the girl. And the movie, maybe they got, from its be tennyson, I Think there's a lot more. I mean there's some You know if you go on you too, when you watch the It's really bad audio. I mean, if you think this audio is bad audio is awful. Poor hits
Its iron poor is awful, its stinker, but you know. I think it's really cool that in this town that this murder took place in the high school they set up. colleagues, forensic class, and so they went over the case again and then they had. Your sweeney What what's the his detectives name or sparks presley presley there presley's like grandson great grants, and that was writing. I think it's his nephew I think presley was detective on the case. His nephew started off as a as a journal journalists for the gazette and then he he goes on to write this boy s, I write a book about your sweeney and kind of making him this crime suspect will you get what you jumped over the king, but that the connection so
tennyson was in the bank right in the back he's in the band, so there high school. He goes to high school with them. He's an employee at the movie theater job. He's he's usher from nineteen. Forty five I'm gonna keep it in the forties this time. Because last time I went to the hollow weight as aids and and nineteen aid hee hee. back from the dead. This guy actually was Jesus no nineteen, forty five to nineteen forty six. He was an at the paramount theatre, so Second and third martyr, the first martyrs both of the first attack- I should say I don't know if this is the tack the first attack or not because I heard what I wrote down. So I got the first second and third and the first one, both of them were at the theatre that day. Second, one
Both of them were at the theatre that date the third world, only one of the victims were at theatre. That day he came in so thick not only the school is a connection to these victims, but also the theater and then work by any now now I'm gonna play devils advocate here, because I never states that he was assured that day that he was actually present working that that you just happened. It work there be employed there at that right and now these are small town coincidence- is that you're gonna have anyways blush but There's only one movie there there's only one. There might be more than one movie dinner right and you see what a man again because of its being a smaller town, you're back, You live in a small suburb, theirs times, you know, We live in a suburb of Columbus, ohio
one to necessarily stay in my suburb to go to a movie theater, possibly go off fifteen We must, on the way, to a different one too slow classier show the lady a nice time, but they went. this one here they're. So that's direct connection. If you work there that day that connects to them of the day of their death, and I think that important, but I also think it is important that he lived miles away from where these crimes are happening, and he would have interactions with the two kids with the saxophone. Air and then her chauffeur for the evening. He had connections to them through school when he can in the stocks and his wife. I believe he worked at the plant that starts work there, You worked there in the summers So there will be some connection, thereby aside. I think he got
if gonna be other, find a lotta connections just based on the fact that it. It is a small town. Given I ask for the quote. I ask for the connection to start, because I want to know why it's ok, can see this? this boy, this fifteen year old, sixteen year old boy out in the night, with a gun, stumbling upon a core of young kids? You don't stop, upon someone's house. I guess. Maybe you don't know you don't have to necessarily know who lives there, but what I'm getting at is the house as a destination a car moves around the other than that could go with the theory that ok, town at dread. Sundown. Where how can our doors enough aloft in our words were not goin out we're not going out to lover's lane so Where are you going to strike? when the star, where there's also,
on this point there is also teenagers. Yeah. This is, I mean you're, to trap the phantom This is what I find fascinated so when they started implementing the curfew- and I don't, well, if they arrested these individuals if they were caught after curfew or not but suppose lay there was some teens. You know like late high school. early college that ok, you know were set up Where are we going to put people in a car or whatever was set setup kind of like a sting to catch this dude yeah, where we sit in the car with a gun yeah, I was gonna, we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna, we're gonna. Have we're going of course, we're going have guys, wine in the car with guns mean Now here's my theory, this might stupid, but you're in high school one year committed these crimes an you hear about this, you hear about that. These
older teenagers setting up the sting, I'm not going around those cars anymore, so and again, now, if he is the killer, this has to be connected with all of them, so That would be my theory on why that much was committed that way again, no robbery, there's nothin taken from the house, so each be tennyson. If he does we did commit these crimes, as he just a main accurate sexual maniac like they spent I don't know of his sexual maniac, because even though there were there was probably probably one if the there is at least one assault arena for them seamen found among other girls right so I mean this sounds bad boats. I dig up the kids bones already untasted one
but if it that evidence, if the seamen was actually preserved in a way that you could write wreck. If they're like Hannah siemens not got any more, we don't know, call is still take it off, the bones were I think the confession is a big thing and and we're talking about a key that is just cold and then this confessional comes out and its It's like they stopped. You know the paper source I predict in itself and aids is stop this, going down that whole The reason why they did because the kids dead already so brain more pain to the faintly. I guess ok. Well, here's the other thing. This guy tennyson,
is a hundred and thirty pounds at the time of his death. How we don't know audience. Crazy disease on it, yeah, but we don't. We don't know what he weighed during during the these crimes, if it was like four hundred verde back if their work was movement of these bodies. some strength to take some. Margarets disease, incredible strength in credit, strengthen the margins. It doesn't make any sense that guys get long hours and long laces as bullshit, and you there is one involved for yeah. Well, you almost did. I saw the look in your eyes of maybe I'm just presenting reasons why he might not be your guy. Does he? How does he move these bodies if, if they were in fact, move and then you can have all guns ready to used in and to other crimes that we know of in, and
twenty two used in the starks there's a picture of tests with the twenty two when it. like a kid, so so he's under ease, ease under age, any ease he owns or has access to two different gods. One more time, our time, we're guns are primarily marketed to work towards younger kids. I mean, as you know, is one of those things you get a gun. You dad teach you how to shoot at all blocked What I find interesting was he had a friend I don't could find his name. James Freeman, okay, Jane cream, a sixteen year old friend of tennyson from texarkana came forward? talk to a deputy prosecutor after hearing that tennyson confess to being the family so now mind you free is sixteen at the time
of tennysons death did your version. so he's approximately two years younger. Then mr tennis, so is like fourteen at the time. approximately fourteen issue at the times, which I sense because he tend to hang out with younger people free. Explained they on the night of Virgil starks death. He was with him at tennysons, home cards or checkers between seven p m and midnight that night they both the news of starts death. Therefore, Tennyson couldn't have been right, which you all First of all, he comes. He comes forth with this information before the mother does right. So Do you think that
I would remember that information before this kid, but this is also to two years later you're saying later, the mother backs up tennysons mother backs up freeman story that I don't know, I don't know if she backs it up, and I am saying she didn't come forward this information first. She then say you know what my son couldn't have done it because a friend over the night, so I mean that a theory, and then, I think but then talk about what happens in his life afterwards. His friends ends killing himself james free and kill them jesse. You got James freeman dead. and we have be tennyson dead, committing suicide. So and freeman does he kill himself soon after this account,
or you know it's a while later months years years later, because he was college age around I'm he committed suicide. I mean so then you you can have a couple theory. She can have one that the kid this doesn't remember right. You done it. You know and the confession he does. I there is no ample, application that he acted. with somebody else you know I didn't know how what his age was at the time. So I would I can always started assuming or what friends said that I was with him that night and now be his alibi for not ims. Look. don't put in him into the crime as well. So and that would make sense on the bodies be move, but maybe the bodies weren't moved, I mean
they found puddles a blood at some of the scene and then the bodies and back in the car? who's to say that they walked back to the car. You know or who's to say that he caught a hundred and thirty pounds how how much did victims way I mean possible that equal you know the private signs of dragging the body in and things of that nature be it would be interesting to find out when this mister even kill himself. You know what age ok here here is a couple there's a couple things did I definitely like tennyson better for these I'm still in sweden for but not for a basketball team,
if I ever pick picking a basketball team, I'm picking the thief that the problem, some of the problems that we have with sweeney. also have the same problems with tennyson get, but we don't have a confession. With sweeney agreed agreed, we have some shit story maybe, as you know, there's pressure by cops to have a confession and that's confession, then, was never signed. We got we have on your death bed a confession. side. if we have a riddle, that's pretty cool. I dont know if he has motive of why to kill these people other than this being confused adolescent but but he knew these people, but tennyson,
fingerprints did not match the late and prince same as yemen wasn't? There was like one plant at the booker. in case, nor did they test. Is there the friends prince that I don't know, and the other thing that they do say is that the the the guns, the thirty, two and twenty to that tennyson would have had access to the ballistics test. the ballistics on the bullets did not Watch your birthday day, whether that I don't think they ever found his guns note, but they're just saying guns it he did have access to write. not that he didn't have access to a gun, but these are known right, but he states in the the thing and the suicide note that he disassembled the guns and got rid of them. So of course not going to match the one you know,
He whatever he left behind was not the the murder weapons and look. I think I think this is a good time to say something about the show one We don't have all the answers, I got a claim to have all the answers were pie, crate more questions than actual answers mean obviously were telling our theories and kind of the information that we found. This case and what you can find online from We found an art short analysis of this is what we think but anything that we're missing. I think the listener by all means. Really listen. the union has recently and one person listening right now,
Fine, these quit your job or quit your job and the listener probably does not have a job. He doesn't have a job, so some time, but the same as what we're doing those were bring up questions. This is a matter that happened a long time ago and I If you bring some attention to it, and more evidence can come out and their stuff that we mess and light talk about again, having more information and hopefully that we do not bring up. That is. The bear the listener can bring to our attention to pick one between tennyson and sweeney arbitrary, I would say tennysons, probably the guy. I do think that
I don't know that I don't necessarily have a theory on this case, but I do like I do like tennyson better than I do sweeney. As far as a suspect goes. I I don't know they are all connected. It's just it's it's a strange series of events. Yeah I mean it is unfortunate. And it's strange to that. He would confessed to, but in a way where it's not confess into all of them, and there is also that that the guy that they found stab by the railroad there's some suspicion that that's connected with these as well, but that stabbing and not a shooting. So that's kind of that kind of. That's too bad again towns and lived close the railroad tracks, and that, in that case, as well I mean there's a lot of holes and everything, but
when it comes down to it at the end of the day, you got a confession, and possibly one of the main reasons this kid took his life, which is is TAT Two I mean even well he was spend his days in jail. but I just don't think he had any fear of being caught and because the I suspect, is arrested and spending time in jail. I don't think he yet there is any reason for him to fear that you get caught. and I think he had? No, there is no real reason for him to confess to these other than remorse tat guilt, conscious and remote remorse for killing himself remorse or is the remorse what led him to kill himself. Well, that's ones, I think, ok the killing stopped when he
yours when he went away and the killing but the killing stopped, I mean, obviously they weren't one off for the last two years that we know of, and then he killed himself attend. and kills himself. But I don't know, I just think it's. Why would effects that derive right there. Six out the most here, yeah and and like. I said it's really hard to to one of the press. Patients they gave. because it basically what they did was laid out a bunch different suspects, and they had. These speakers comment this high school and talk about the different suspects and the also anyone I mean both of them. Presentations are great, and that gives you tons of information on this case, so you can kind of form. opinions. But comes down to it when you watch the two and the second one is so much harder to watch
just based on the audio, but after that one there's a lot of bullshit theories about him liking. comic books and detective magazines and other stuff that I dont really other bidders all over the place there, but I think the thing is, when you have up the confessed, sign. I think this is so It's to me that simple. You know it's simple to me why. Why would the cops not pursued any farther yeah this kid that was fourteen at the time saying I was with them. a credible that is also this guy later on, kills himself, this guy's, sums sexual addiction problems. I can't mass masturbation and all the seller stuff. So I don't know how much was he involved. I don't know you, but this is freeman you're talking about,
I mean Freeman eventually kills himself, so maybe he felt guilty for lion maybe he just, has some issues I made his best friend I mean. Maybe his best from one of his close friends. You is dead, eighteen that can cause Carson mental stuff going on, but I think when you have you, have this conversion and yeah, there's a bunch of holes, but but I understand why the cops didn't then keep pursuing because one You have a relationship with family. The family has a relationship with the paper, but I am why I think that ultimately that's the downfall of this case. I think that the unfortunately today, being so far removed from what we are from these attacks that did today? It's not solvable that we, I know who did it and I think
They kept pursuing it and pursued it a little better back then They would have been able to fit tennyson for these crimes. Well, I mean, I think, if they end or freeman, but I think if they open up day depending on what friends evidence they still have. I think you could you could pin it on one of these people, I think, and if you're going to bring something to trial. That story at least put a closer connection to one of the suspects and one of the big right. I think part of his the cops don't want to admit that they're wrong Do your sweeney but they don't want to go down that thing of dragging this person's name through the mud. Why? Why should they? When he's already passed away? I will. I do have to point out that one thing that I thought was, I wouldn't say, but it was annoying to watch until listen to was this kind of squabble between the
tennyson relative, whose written a book that says tennyson his is definitely the the killer. and then this presley relative of the original detective the there is the book saying stating that sweeney, whereas the killer and there seems to be a little squabble where their purpose they did their goin back and forth spending all. time and I get it. an approved, the other person's wrong and some of the other browsers roth. I get it neither mighty it might help you so more books later on that, if you can, but that's your motive, rapture motive you'd have, unfortunately, they always led the other writer, the other others wrong law. Now they always say, follow the money you know fall. money, so wise persons and this person wrong. Why I'll have a book about that think its a bit silly that they're doing at them well now, because I think at my dear again, at the end of the day, though you can say yeah, I told, I understand why I told you understand why the cops do what they're doing
by the end of the day, if you have physical evidence, look I understand dig in some way of his a big deal, but I have an unsolved crime. Is a big deal, but that's what's in here s another case. Is it I think, the cases more important being solved more important. the town not to be solved. it's their landmark, it's what they rest their head on. I think it's a town that past can't move forward, a man if you watch out little documentary on tube they talk about how this town is. Stock. I mean the stock true has a little bit ago? I wasn't like it's not last few years, but We're still talk about fifty some years,
the towns not really moving on from there? I think that it's important and see so. It's bad drew drag this kid's name through the mud. Almost seventy years it's bad to drag the kid's name through the mud in the family's name through the mud. Yes, but now you've got one of the family members dragon his answer them was now it's important to do so or selling books right right, we're making money from this. So this is good, but I think it's Who cares about the town who cares by then? It comes down to the victims, and their family members and their relatives. I think that's important. I think it's important. They have an answer and I it's unfair, that they have to do the same thing that we're doing in this look at the case from outside sighted view. click the evidence as much as it can inform your opinion, great song,
that's the case, and I think anybody that has any information that would do not cover. I think this is a is that will bring up again. after we look into its more in, and hopefully some people can bring some things alight. We can this revisit for low bit some other day. Ok, what was at it! That's all right so well before we close the garage everything that you would like the plug yeah. I mean The show as we're gonna get up and gone It's important that we get some kind of support. So I think if you visit the website, all the songs that are created for the show or created by us and so purchase in their shows. A kind is good. Do you know what they were Can it keeps the thing gone? If you enjoy what you're listenin to scan await us, support the shining and make sure that we because, basically its away to a long time
we can do the shell right decide to say go to the website. Download a song if you want, or through some money in the tipp jar and now appreciate it very much and if you can't do that and you enjoy the show just tell friend about it, and we were working on that website. We don't have a website yet for you to go to I'll, have he'll, have a website. It will come back at you with that information on our next podcast, but I did pair I did want to plug if anybody is in Columbus, ohio or in the greater columbus ohio area Saturday April twenty fifth, downtown you can google it and find out where it is, but it's the ohio authors, civil I've gone to the last two years. It's fantastic there's a couple of true crime authors there they do a little reading from their books, little autograph session and, of course, a q and a that will allow you to discuss some of the crimes and cases with them and that's,
bring up saturday April twenty fifth, Google, it ohio festival, ohio, authors festival, Other plunks path, ok, later we'll see you next time.
Transcript generated on 2023-06-07.