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good to see you here of the weak, it's getting cold outside. So let's drink some good winner beer right this week we have our. Cocoa, nitro, love, love, love, it garage great for and a quarter you'll go five bottle caps. This is truly great wintertime beer cause. It warns the bones in it warms the sole. My and its funding say: that's right, oh, go! Cocoa! Nightrobe imperial double style by river sitting brewing and spoke handwashing tan. This smooth, creamy, full bodied stout, is brought to us by our very best garage friends. First up, we have. Oh yeah captain this is one of my favorite people tele, and look He will Kentucky listen closely to what kelly ass to say. She said I love your show in its a great listen. While she prepares boring legal documents

The next time we do in Indiana case she highly recommend seeking out something from three floyd's brewery. She likes yum, yum and dunbar kelly Kelly. You are absolutely spot on. I am I I'm on untapped. Look me up of my and, of course is true crier right that that's big! Do you drop in that now the veils dropping? Yes. If anyone wants to look me up on their semi, a friend request go for it and I may consider it. But if you are my friend on there, you will see that I have great gumbo ahead. A very strong five out of five gumbo head is an american pale. Wheat, ale and three floyd's is a very cool brewer. This there is a very nice grocery store in Clinton bill which is near my neighborhood and once in a while, they get gumbo head in and they sell it limit to twelve ounce bottles per person, and I think it's like three dollars a bottle, and I always by two in fact, one

Am I bought two and then I went outside to my car. I set my car for like twenty minutes. I took my hat off and I went back in about two more did the guys say. I recognise your genes get at aligns or you worry about two. Next up we have rebecca and faint bill, arizona, let's go down under and say hi to blair in waggle wagon, new, south wales, Australia. Next we have king. Can in Pensacola florida all hail, the king also thing the robert down and georgetown taxes. How about a fellow buckeye captain we have crawled in paris, burgo, heil and it's but not least, go have Gareth in south yorkshire, united kingdom and Gareth says have a beer on me and he recommends a beer from a black sheep brewery if we can get a hold of it

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right to it, that's right! Dump out your coffee gather round, grab a chair grab a six pack of beers and let's talk some true grasp this. It's true grime garage- and this is the case of the ted. Orders it was October making suddenly for now, as a pharmacist student at the university of your time, solitary, I was city park wave

I thing about him to canvass it was late. I was getting frustrated and then this Campbell cleveland drove by very slowly driver kind of looked at me as we went past, and then he stopped and backed up and leaned over and rolled down the passenger window and asked me where I was going I told him. I went up to the eu and he said to me to have been so I'll in the door and got in the first thing that I noticed was that inside passenger door handle was missing and he leaned over and pull your shot. But it wasn't alarmed. I figured college kid college car things fall off look like college student, is dressed night at a green poor sweater. I'm nice wax lighthearted we just have the normal conversation that strangers would have. I told him my name's rhonda and I'm a pharmacy student. What are you studying? He told me

his name was tat. Last dude in just a couple of blocks. He turned away that wasn't than normal route through the university. And I asked him about that. He was very polite and asked my permission if it would be alright if he took a little detour, them told me to run and ended up by the zoo, and I told him that would be fine. I didn't care, I thought I would still be home faster than if I had waited for the bus and then we went right on past the zoo and, I said, hey, I thought we were taking me to the zoo and he said no. I said near the zoo that road goes over the hill and drops down into party's canyon, which is the main highway back into the city nothing's, going off Britain's having fun. We get to the bottom of that canyon. We should have turned right to go towards campus.

Instead he turned left and started driving up another canyon and, as he's driving he's kind of looking at parking places and side roads. The conversation started to go weird then, because he stopped talking to me and I'm still trying to make idle conversation, and thinking that he's, probably looking for a place to pull off and park wants to make out, and I don't know him and I'm not really a makeup person but he's still cute law student at them. I don't want to offend him, and I don't want to embarrass myself so I'm thinking of how do I get out of this situation and then he pulled into a parking placing partner I turned it off then he turned and partly so he's gonna facing linden really close, I thought he was going to kill me daddy said very quietly. You know what I'm going to kill you I'm going to kill you.

his hands on my throat and persuasion. His thought was has to be some kind of a joke. This guy's got a weird sense of humor, but that was just maybe a fraction of a second, because I realized he was squeezing too tightly. He was serious and I was in trouble and there's no door handle well hello, small battle in the car, but I wouldn't unconscious idea this matter via, because you can put up when you running up air, I'm gonna die. I was gonna die right there in the car

the other, the nineteen seventy four in the great state of washington. We have a situation here, big time situation, women are being attacked, some are disappearing and some are found dead. We have about six or seven women, ranging in age from eighteen to twenty, two years old who were attacked. Now these are not. All the same deal here. One woman is attacked in her sleep. She sleeping in a house that she shares with sir. Ro other roommates she's attacked and abducted from her bed, This is in the university of washington area. There is a

nineteen year old. That disappears from the evergreen state college. An eighteen year old disappears from central washington state college campus, one night and April seventy four and then there's a twenty two year old. Her name is cathy parks. She disappears from organ state university in korea, alice organ so just to mention a few of them. So these these young women are disappearing from different college campuses and other areas, and one really suspects that these things are connected right. Some young adults change gear, years on a dime and move away. So you know some of these people they're not. Really missing right away, and maybe there's really you're not a lot of great explanations for this, but they are disappearing. And now there are, a few detectives did do think that these cases could be connected or something bigger going on something being related. But, of course, no one is going to connect the cathy parks disappearance from organ state, but

It is all going to change very quickly here, because we want to talk about a place called lake Samantha I did like some amis is a beautiful state park located eight miles east of seattle and king county. It's a big park. It's about five! It's five hundred twelve! acres and has quite a bit of waterfront access with boat launches and, of course, hiking in picnicking. and when you look up lake some on Wikipedia, though they list three, The jury. Events as occurring at lakes has made some damage now, the first, when they list is a pirate. first vikings, massive water balloon fight, which is held annually, sounds like a lot of fun. And then not a lot of fun for the other events, because the next event they list his wife killer be wrought, drowned. His fourth wife, cynthia at lake, some hamish

then this event so continuing on back to nineteen. Seventy four, as said lakes, mammas, a beautiful stake port state part with all of that fresh water and of it's going to be very busy in the warm months of summer, with plenty of young adults looking for fun in the sun but July fourteen nineteen, seventy four, the state park was extremely busy. They estimate There were about. Forty thousand of fifty thousand people there. That day now, part of that was due to several large business is holding their company picnic picnics on that the afternoon, but most of that is because of the great whether it was ninety degree temperature that day plenty of sunshine. So around noon, a young and described as about twenty five years of age, with blondin hair approached a pretty twenty two year old woman, the woman's name is Mary ozma. She was over. In a grassy area. This is near

those company picnics that were going on these strange I said hi and asked mary for her help. He was wearing blue jeans, a white t, shirt and his arm was in a sling. He is asking for help with his sailboat. He needs to loaded onto his car but of course, he's unable to because of it warm right, a visual, I mean think about silence of the lambs when buffalo bill was moving that couch and he asked the lady for help. So so she agrees to go help me. He seems like somebody that seems like a good person might be in need of help and they walk over together to his blind as a bum arm and got a little v w bug. But the problem that here is she immediately: notices mary notices that there's no sailboat and die. He says well the sale and how many bugs canto a sailboat,

it depends on how big the boat is a small boat that you he wants to loaded up on top of the vehicle. Oh okay, more like a kayak yeah. Okay. So he says that you know the boat is it's up at my parents' place, which is we just got a drive up the hill here? pick it up and she she's a little worried about the situation. Had the boat been there, she probably would help the guy right, but because the boats out there she's not very eager to leave the that she's with an she mentions that she's already running late. You she supposed to be meeting her parents around twelve, twelve twenty that day so she's already running late for that, so she kindly politely backside of helping the man. And the man she says is polite, and he thanks, and apologize, is that the boat wasn't right there with the vehicle.

He even walks her about half way back to that grassy area where they were this v. W bugs gonna become very important, as we will see later, but another of the young adults that was there that day enjoying the beautiful weather was twenty. Three year old janis ought she's a thin petite five foot tall It's long straight blonde hair. She rode to the lake that day by herself, and she wrote her bike. She had a yell tiger ten speed bike and at the beach she was. She was once she was there. You know she gets their gets her things out, put your bike away and she goes down to the beach area. They have plenty of waterfront. As we have mentioned, and she's gonna throw out her Tao and stripped down to the bikini and start sunning. You know, like everybody else, is doing on that ninety degrees sunbathing so about this time a stranger now describe as

wearing white shoes, a white t, shirt and shorts, but again his arm is in a sling walks to the beach, and he goes. Two Jana sought his prey wearing shorts. He asked if she would help him load his sailboat, but this time he immediately states that the boat is not at the vehicle. It's at his parents house, which is up the hill its acquire now the girl says Jana she'll real, quick, though, isn't this? How it normally happens, though, when somebody asked for a favour like it always turns, though his terms there's something bigger yeah. It's a small favour at work. I just need you to help me get this boat on to my car. or are you going to do- is lifted up and then all of a sudden there's all these different obstacles. By the way we got a good, my parents' house and then yeah it's going to be in the basements we gotta get out of the basement and janice is very nice. You know she says well, I'm from Issaquah so no big deal. I will help you with this boat. I understand we're going to have to take your vehicle and drive.

Up the hill and and find the then. This is a handsome gent yet Well actually that's exactly what marry awesome. Her says, the the first woman that was approached that we know of she's. She commented that he was. She found him to be attractive and that's why he she agreed to help him. I guess ugly people don't get helped according to mary, Sorry about that. I nobody helps me with anything nobody's help elbowed, nor for me ever you got a nice chipped away about so Jane. agrees to help this young man and she does state. You know I wrote my bicycle to the beach. So, if we're gonna take, car somewhere. I'm hoping that I can you put the bike in your car, or we have waited a sucker I was just thinking about that stupid movie. Now, forty year old virgin yeah, you got a big trunk cause. I'm gonna put my bike in it. Sorry, that's insensitive! Now the park is extremely.

Is he that day right right? Forty thousand, mainly that it sets out all the city? Basically yeah. That's a ton of people there that day answer You can imagine that the beaches a little crowded and, Jan as being a very attractive young woman wearing a bikini sittin there sunbathing. Of course some people are going it going to take notice to this and because the beaches so crowded there are people sitting. and lying rather close to one another. So some of the other people on the beach they over here this conversation and their witnessing. You know this interaction between these two strangers and during this interaction, several people, you no kind of ease, dropping notice that day the to introduce one another- and you know she says my name is janis and the stranger says my name is ted and then ask her for the help well about twelve thirty. So this is very quickly

After this strange man approached marry. You know this is within fifteen to twenty minutes after she had denied him the help of the sailboat now he's already moved on to the next woman and he's receiving help from her seemingly because? getting up collecting her belongings, she's asked about her bicycle and now about twelve there Mary asthma. She sees the man that she spoke to or who introduced himself as ted to janice right. She sees the two of them walking together and janice has her bicycle with her right. Now they go off and we don't. We don't know where they go to this day. We still don't exactly oh where they went, but there are a few things that we would later be able to surmise what probably took place. This ted person took janis somewhere and in the course of of getting there or one

there he unleashed a sneak attack on her, probably using a crowbar to strike or over the head, and then he would I her up, maybe even use handcuffs, but he was able to control her in a way they. He wouldn't be physically. leaving her alive, whether she conscious or or just knocked out or or or bound in and held captive somewhere. We don't know, but we do know that he left her somewhere and she was alive when this took place now around three o clock this afternoon. So we're just talking about two and a half hours later. Diane watson is near a concession stand. This is one that is closest to an east. They have you, no multiple, restroom

at this park in this, is closest to one of the eastern restrooms. Now she notices another young woman. This is Denise nason. Now Denise is aunt the beach with her boyfriend and another couple Diane also notice is a young man in his mid twenties and this young man is staring at her, and this is like an intense stairs. You know the kind of stare that you you not only notice it, but you can kind of feel it and I dont get those seconds later. The young man is asking Diane if she would help him load his sailboat onto it Car now Diane would later say that the man sounded embarrassed, probably because he was you know a man asking a woman for help, but he He did also have his arm in the sling. Now Diane does decline, helping the man at a price,

Only four p m. Another young woman is approached by the stranger with wearing the arm sling. This time he ask lorry Adams if she would help him launch his boat. You know is changing his wedding in his needs. Now read you help me launched the boat. Now she quickly decline, sway ear got the boat nice brent bag is launched at four thirty. This man approaches eighteen year old, she's, five foot, four inches taller. This Denise nason now Denise had an argument with her boyfriend. Earlier she was there with her boyfriend in another couple and she's now off sitting by herself. This near that east concession stand that we spoke of Denise leaves with the young man that approached her. This is witnessed by ace Anno police department employ. So this is these are all is it. We know happened right there, but Denise was there with her boyfriend correct, and so that they get in a fight, because men are stupid and you ruined fun events. Yeah

be well and they are also young people. You know, young people are about nothing. Sometimes and then I I don't know anything about arguing about nothing. I don't know what you're talking about so then, It's not fight with her boyfriend and then she's left with this ted guy, get yes earlier this diana she noticed the guy that approach her and Seize this other young woman sitting over by that east concession stand now. This is when another. This is the seattle police department employ notices, the young man going up to Denise seized the two of them, leaving together their leaving the area. there now Denise has never seen alive again after this situation

So what we know now is that these two women both disappear both of em about the same age, and we know that this quote unquote. Ted person who is walking round introducing himself is ted asking for help with a sailboat he's, approached multiple women, time and time again and he's receive too offers for help and both of the young ladys that help him they're, not going to be seen again, the rest of that day or or ever again live what we can figure out here is this TED person had taken janis somewhere and care. You're somewhere alive, probably knocked out probably bound and then later he brought Denise to the same location. What took place This is a little uncertain, but we know

We will know from later attacks and later things that we will see in the case of the ted murders that he probably attacked both of them and terrorized them together and separately. This was a person that would would would rape women as he terrorized them, and we have a secure, she's here where we now have to people being held captive and being terrorize together. One of them is going to witness the other one being killed right in front of them and that in itself is some kind of form of mental torture mean that's her you're talking about a sadist of the highest level. Here someone that the extremely enjoys the panic in the tear that he's instilling into others in and troll for days and days, the peace

in the community, the law enforcement. They are looking for these two young women they they've gone missing, they've disappeared. Now it is not until september of seventy four. This is, you know, roughly less than two months later, a hunter stumbles on some human remains. This is about a mile from the lake to manage. The fbi is called in for these to investigate and but the f b. I would spend days and days there right, I believe they spent like nine or ten days there searching the area and what they end up, coming up within the end, is that a fine most of the bones of the two victims, this being two women, the young women that were missing. They do not fight genesis skull, but they find most of her by her remains fine, women's clothing that is unrelated to the two victims.

and they also find some bones of an unknown female victim and, of course, they find a crowbar, and that's why I had suggested earlier. That may be a crowbar was used in an attack to knock out the women or to or to beat the women right, but this will all go back to those earlier investigations of the disappearing, women from the different campuses college campuses- and this is going to lead to something here and is going to give the police a break so to speak and is also going to the community, is going to open up the eyes of the people in the community, that right after the spear, without fresh. You get farm. Fresh proportion, ingredients in seasonal recipes, delivered right to your doorstep. Skip trip to the grocery store and count on hello, fresh to make home cooking, easy, fun and affordable. That, Why it's america's number one meal kit flavors and full bloom, hello, fresh and joy

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In new orleans, twenty twelve bruce twelve here chair, I drove to an address some one had given him that didn't exist ass. He stood in the parking lot where the address should have been. He was shot and killed I'm deal. You d join me for the newest season of counter clock, as I dive into the motive behind bruces murder a series of events that have never been fully investigated until now. Binge all fourteen episodes of counter clock season. Five, wherever you isn't a pod, casts brick. and we're back cheers everybody cheer. So we're talking about the ted murders and how does this whole? lake shore. Thing fall into place with what we are talking about earlier, while we a community where we have different young in being attacked, some of them are disappearing from campuses around the area and, as we said that

community doesn't really know that. There's something going on here where there's links to these different cases. However, the eyes are opened after this attack at lake samantha. On that day, withers forty to fifty three. And people, and also a beautiful young women go missing and their missing for days and days and weeks and weeks and about, months later there there remains, are found by the fbi, again a lot of people you have to pretty, ladies go missing an, but we have this odd character that was seen talk into the lake. and that's what's interesting about this. We we now have a community. That knows something is going on We know that we have some one that is capable of not only killing people but capable of taking to women at the same place at the same time and in pulling that off somehow, but on top of that we had these detectives that thought that there might

b something going on, but they have no leads rank and they have nothing to go on because in most of these cases there is either witnesses or no bodies that are being found. and now law until the year until the lake. Now we have remains that have been found, and on top of that we have witnesses and we have something for the police to work with. We have a look here now, somebody's going around a young man that appears to be in his mid twenties may be twenty five and they have several descriptions of him, he's going around and he's talking to multiple women. These are too options that are that are coming forth from women that more present that day, as well as onlookers and other beach, go some people that were at the park that saw this person going up to these different and not only that, but you also have a women that actually talk to him. Talk to this man named ted are gonna help this man

so you're gonna get a better eye. Witness accounts of those events than to some onlooker that saw the sky from fifty feet away and the police something very interesting here. They do a call to action to the community and because I realise that there are so many people at the park that day and they have a couple bits of information they have, one thing where the guy is using the name ted. Well, that very well could be a fake name you. Actually, I would assume that it would be a fake name, and I believe that they probably did too as well by something wrong with victims, but on top of that they have a visa called description from Mary osman who walked over to the vehicle and said now. I can't help you and she saw the same guy. She saw him walking off with janis, ought just a half an hour. Late young vehicle is a v w bug, but it odd color tan. Well,

it's some people called a tan and other times it's been referred to as a bronze, color, What do odd, though I mean that's, not the typical, when I think veto bug, I'm thinking yo add or are we alone yellow our some reason? But what the police do is there going reach out to everybody in the community using their media sources and there to say you know what we want anybody that took photos that day, you know maybe you saw something and you have something to report. But if you didn't see anything in you happen to take a bunch of photos that day bring us all of your photos, and we would like to look through them? Why? Because what there? to see here? Is they they know what kind of vehicle they're looking for and they know roughly where the vehicle, was parked whether they want to different scour through all these pictures and they're going to try to see if they can spot the vehicle because hoping maybe they can get a picture of the man standing near the vehicle that were the license plate exactly but

the other thing that we're gonna have here in the investigation is We are learning about body dumping, and this is the fbi as well and what they learn from this situation is there and slightly less than two months time, the bodies that had been dumped there? They had not only fully decompose to that of skeleton remains, but the man calling himself. Also had one other thing on his side, animals scattered. The remains all over the hillside in some of this was pretty good. Distances is remember, we said it took them over a week to find everything that they do. It up compiling at the end and that ended up the remains of two of 'em to identified persons, one ident unidentified victim, as is the possible murder, weapon, thee, crowbar right, not for remains of its third victim, but you don't just, I think, fragments it was. You know it, but then one

Victims was missing skull, which is very odd as well. But I wonder if the car I wonder if the fbi just assume that, because these victims- were found in the wilderness. If maybe that animal does went off with it, I mean another little goring, graphic that was there. They they had actually figured that out. There there were probably markings on some of the bones that would indicate such activity taking place. and they really cottages surmise that whoever dump them just left the bodies there and walked away from and whatever happened to the bodies during the deacon de composition process was the animals had scattered these pieces, throughout the hillside. The other in a recent me, is that the law enforcement fbi or the cops they also you know not only looking through these pictures, hoping to get license plate or a visual of this man

They also were compiling a list of guys named ted and not just assuming again that if far that that this yeah perpetrator used the alias well that's where the investigation took a big spent where before they were just invested These random attacks that were taking place at different college campuses, but the real that their are able to make a link to this lake. Some amis is that the victim ology here you have victims that they look similar they're all of the same age, their college, age, girls, they're young, attractive women. This would be this person's victim type, and so that's why they end up starting to call this case. The ted murders because that's the only thing they have to go off of. Is this person introducing himself as tet, and at the time too, we have to discuss. You know we have the f b I.

and we have persons involved in the fbi that are used to investigating these type of cases, these cereal murder cases and one thing start discussing amongst themselves is why would this individual? If he is linked to these attacks at lakes, some amis? Why would he jump make the leap these seemingly very successful murders that he's done, where there's no witnesses, whether maybe not even be a body found. There's no evidence now leads near some one. That seems to be very good at what they're doing and now all of a sudden he's putting himself in doing this. double event, which is extremely risky behaviour. Yeah, like we set up forty to fifty thousand people and then you're taken to victims at odds varies very it's very late. You said risky behaviour to get getting caught if the other crimes

connected to this effort decades, people would speculate about this and they would wander you. You know why make this leap? What was this something that this ted person set out to do that day was he did he wake up with the plan of going and taking to women? and putting them together and terrorizing them at the same time. Or did he just go to this event? And you know you know his sickness, his addiction for murder. Did it come to the surface? and he disconnect control himself and one thing that I heard brought up, which is interesting. You know a lot of these, they say so I'm busy serial killers tried a one up, each other that there's like some of em. That kind of compete, that they read and study other serial killers and there's things that they want to mimic or or do better than than what they ve seen. Other kip killers do now jack. The Ripper did a double event back

in his day and there's even been some. This is off the subject here, but does he it says weird to call her that he did a double murder yeah and in in jack's situation. He he, the thought is that he killed one woman on one side of town and then very quickly went to the other side of town and killed another woman, there has been an interesting theory. This come out within the last year or two that speculates a jack. The ripper was actually to people working together at that were both linked close to the case and being investigated at the time, and maybe that they came up with this idea that ok, you kill. You have one half a jack Ripper, go to this side of town and kill this girl and then you're there at the scene of the crime. So you are you're almost a wit to this event right, so you cannot be a suspect in the other killing that took place on the other side of town, it's committed by the other one: half a jack, the Ripper yell

this situation, though I don't. I don't know that this was the ted person trying to outdo jack the ripper or if this was so. He read about in fantasized about doing that. Debts, regan, it is actually that's the number one theory is it. This was something that he he wanted to up the stakes that this was something that he wanted to do, that he always desire to take too long. Comes at the same time, more yeah you're, getting some sensation. from one murder, then you know up up the ante, get double the sensation from a double murder there and they they suspect that he always wanted to kill one victim in front of the other victim, and I I'm going to go off on my own little thing here. I What what I see out of this character is, I think, I see someone that's just outright addicted to the act of capturing the women.

and terrorizing them and murdering them, and I think it's it's like a drug to this person, and I think what happened was he went there that day with the expectation of abducting one victim and may be leaving afterwards However, I think once he got there and there are so many people, there are so many gorge young women that are his victim type. I think that he got there any he couldn't it's like a kid in the candy store he couldn't pick out yet one I mean not only that we see him going up to one after woman after woman after woman I mean he went up to eight or nine different ladys that day and he ends up taking too. I think he just really wanted to kill them all. You know too many victims and he wanted he. We there were too many to choose from so he would allow himself to one fairness. He s a fine summer, that's willing to help him and is that, as I said, he approach woman after woman

and he allowed himself to who's this They had he not reached ever level of gratification that he was hoping to reach or that high that he was chasing when he went there to the part that morning who's to say that after too that, if he reach that high that there would have been three or four that same day, the king county police there. Finally armed with a detailed description of their suspect as well as his car. They start posting flyers throughout the seattle area and a composite sketch was printed in regional newspapers and broadcast on local tell, vision stations now the tipp start coming in and they don't just come in I mean they are pouring in the police or receiving approximately two hundred tips per day, because the composite sketch as well as the information about the vehicle and what had taken place at the park that day now, amongst wrinkled into those sprinkled into those tapes are a few that we have

bring up. Ok, there's one really interesting, one. First of all, its a university of washington psychology- professor aren't so this tipp number one, yep. This professor calls in the tipp and says you know what I have a student at at the firstly, washington and he's kind of an odd ball and he's in my class, and he has a veto view bug and he looks like sketch that I'm seeing on the news and his name is theodore Bundy and here's tipp number two sprinkled in with all those their tips. We have a lady by the name of an rule. Now she comes forward in the same thing. You know I worked with this guy at this crisis. Hotline he's he's my partner it, which is weird because he's a very nice guy, and we're friends we're not addresses a is a crisis crisis hotline crisis hotline

while the new early, no it's a it's. Basically like a suicide colin. You know if, if you're feeling like you're going to commit suicide, you call in so so it's it's odd ok one! While we know it's ted, you know. There's a guy named ted so that he has gone against him. Ah, we also but its, and he has a bug. But could you imagine if your work in this basically suicide hotline and you're working with this guy named ted. Any you about these horrific murders. How how much thou play with your psyche were Well, why would he be helping people not die if but just to go murder? People well and think about this too, from an rules perspective. When do you think that most of those crisis phone calls come in the majority of whom are probably coming in in the late evening. Nighttime so picture this. She,

alone with this ted person, this theodore Bundy, and they actually lock you in their working side by side manning the phones together for all hours of the night, and not only that there. She said where we're friends, you know we ve gone to lunch together charming guy, yet and she's a little bit older at the time, and she she's doing that to just kind of be a good person and donate her time, but the the crisis hotline what they would as they would pair these old. Adults with college students that wanted to donate their time as well now, whether they're trying to gain experience for things. I mean we're seeing what looks good on the resume this person, if he mike matches up, if he's the same theodore bundy. This is somebody that is obviously taking psychology classes at the washington university we have and a third to the third tip. Is I and I'm going to give a fake name here Because this person, I know they're real name and you can, if you

because he's the the captain attended figment. Well, why have a fake name for hawkeye, but here's, my little warning to everybody. If you want to you, can go out and you can find her real name. If that's that important to you, this person would go on later to write a book, and she did not you her real name in the book. So I don't think it's fair for me to use her real name here saying her? Her fake name is liz kendall, Now, let's kendall, she says that I have a kind of on and off again boyfriend and his is ted Bundy and he matches the description. as well as he drives the vehicle that that was said to be at the park that day and she says I should she'd. She outwardly says to the detective on the phone. I dont suspect that he's the killer, I dont think he's capable of anything like

But while this it mean she's, havana, sexual intimate relationship with this individual, so in one would hope that you now you don't pay The worst partners in the world like that yeah in what happens is, you know she says she doesn't think it's actually him that he can he's, couldn't, kill anybody he's too nice of a guy to do anything like tat, but cause. He looks so much like the drawling and because- has the same or similar vehicle. She felt compelled to call in the top right. He looks like the drilling, he has the car and it's the same name. Ah, this is this is the mine,

bender for me, could imagine that guy in seattle, watchin in area, name ted guys little down on his luck, write his name's ted handsome man and he has a tan, be w bug, and then this report comes out, but but you're, not the killer. You have anything to do with rising suppose it's alright, but hypothetically how many ted's, and not even tan, VW, vw bug, but just any ted with a bug in that area, what the heck their brain was gone through at the time like people constantly dislike how there's ted, with his bug, just giving you the dirtiest, looks and you're just like this was a me.

me so I know what's going on right now, but today we have a listener sitting at home therein their car there on the subway there at work in their going wait. A second we're talking about these murders that took place at the lake, we're talking about murders and disappearances. It took place. It pay these different campuses, and now we got three people, three people that call in and then we have hundreds and hundreds of tips, but three are saying specifically theodore Bundy and of course we can look back forty years later and go well shit, Sherlock, white interest or peace in this together right. The problem, like the captain said, is we have over two hundred tips coming in per day, and now Robert couple, who was one of the elite investigators for the fbi at the time on the ted murders case in his defence in

air defence years later. He writes in his book. Does the specifics of what they were dealing with at the time so by the time of night by june of nineteen? Seventy five? Here's what their dealing with this is? U, no! Less than a year after the lake shamash murders game there dealing with three thousand five hundred and sus three thousand five hundred suspect names gathered throughout june of nineteen. Seventy five from those are just TED's not entirely those are just some aspects that have been called in, whether that whether they are suspect, because a detective has put him on the list or because a tipster called and put them on the list or media. Another police department said how we get the suspicious guy, his name's, not ted, but thirty. Five hundred people die. a lot of people to sift through now, top of that here, some other things that they're looking at in this case, they have five thousand tal patients that were released between the years of nineteen sixty four nineteen? Seventy four? We also have

forty one thousand registered owners of volvo and again that the mental patients there are five thousand mental patients released between the years of nineteen sixty four nineteen, seventy four! So that's it it needs to yeah for five thousand would be a lot if we said it was ten months or twelve months, but but it's over the course of a year or if it's just all one day, yeah yeah, I just don't the doors alright see as letter later everybody's, better there's forty. one thousand registered owners of vaults wagons. Forty one thousand very popular car back. Then you also another had one. You also have the three hundred campus vendors, at the university of washington. You have to, thousand one hundred and sixty two guests that state at a near by hotel, awe of lakes remain of that weekend right. So, though, Those are people who came into the area and then left right. So again. If we were, if we take away the attacks in them,

if that were happening on the college campuses and just look at this as a you know, just an individual, isolated event or murder. I just use your word and then, if, if we decide delayed it, then this could just be a commuter and where are they coming from They could become an from six hours away, twelve hours away. Who knows- and I think, if you're talking about that, they only had two hundred tips come in total and one or two of them or of this theatre. Bundy person that matches the description with them with his colleague all this college student basically did. They would probably put that together a lot sooner than what they had. However, we're talking about as far as tips go, a needle in a haystack okay. So what actually like a few needles? Yet there is still no pointing to the same guy

Now there are some officers that do follow up on these ted deficit are eminent, the ted tips so, but what they and and and I will fault them a little bit on this- I won't fault them for the needle in a haystack, but our fault them for this. They ve Very loosely look into this situation. They basically look into the background of this theodore Bundy and they d come up with, idea, that its very unlikely that a clean cut law student with no adult criminal record would be the perpetrator of this horrible who herbal crime, I mean we're not talking about stealing something from the local market. This is a double or when the potential of a third victim. This is the worst of the work Yeah, while I'd like you said, I mean, filing wise. I think they viewed as somebody that was taking their killings to the next level and

that's one of the reasons why the f b, I started to encapsulate the other murders into this of that, and so to just think that, okay, if again, if these murders are not connected, it's still the first time this guy commits a crime that he is a double murder. That seems like a far jump. I could see see the logic behind that thought. Yeah allotted the more schooled detectives and though the fbi, they do think that most these crimes are linked. all of em there's not a lot of evidence pointing towards that, though, and the other thing we were taught about numbers and statistics here. Another thing that they have to deal with is amongst those college campuses where these women disappeared. We're talking about different college campuses right, there's over fifteen hundred people that transferred within that time period out of those schools. So you no one could think when it, when a detective or of fbi agent is looking for. Somebody.

It did something out of character that is absolutely horrible. Most people, the normal behavior, is to run as far away from that as possible, and so of course, they're going to look at anybody that transfer during those time periods has to be a suspect and has to find themselves on that suspect list, whether it be just for one of the, cases or all of them, but we have some connections. You know what you're saying the the the more I It wouldn't be experienced because it could. This be intellect thing that started seeing that there were connections of all female victims, all roughly around the same age, most had evidence of binding on the hands strangulation, probably most of the cases well, but again that a lot of these bodies they ve

found an all right right, but on one thing you do one thing I do have on your side that helps you link them is the short time frame. This is all taking place in the year of nineteen. Seventy four. yeah, I mean that's, that's pretty quick, so we talked about running as far away from a normal person would run as far away from their bad deeds as possible. What we do see here is, in august of nineteen. Seventy, for this it's just one month after the double event- ted theodore, Bundy. Well, that's theodore Bundy. He gets accepted to the university of utah and he moves to salt lake city and during this transfer process for Mister Bundy, the the police, the king, county police and the fbi they're going through their experiencing something new for the first time? Ok, now only do they have a very complicated investigation. This is this is what their realizing

They are realising that you know what all this paperwork and all these tips following up on all these tapes, categorizing them and putting them into some kind of order. That makes sense is a whole other job on itself. The paperwork portion in the record, keeping actually more cumbersome than the actual investigation. Why? Because guess? What? If I'm it? If I get a good tip I need to. I need to go and look through the other tips and see if I can match up with anything well up, we're getting to hunt it's a day. How do I sift through? thousands and thousands of tips to see if that, if it matches up with anything else yet and now with today's technology, we can take all those tips and we could put him into computer system and we could have the computer find those similarities. They're back in seventy five distant happened right well, what come up with. Is they come up with a pretty intricate cataloguing system that involves three by five index cards,

and I won't get into the whole intricacies of this the system that they come up with a lonely, true crime door, it out real quick, but but they re hours later and then what they did. They come up with a way that its easier for the detectives and for the persons receiving the tips to categorize them and to link them together in a much more efficient way. One good idea that the fbi comes up with is that we need im up with our one hundred best ted's okay, so whether your name is the captain or whether your name is nick or whether your name is ted. If you fit certain criteria, you could end up being the It is one of the one hundred right s. Ted somewhat will start narrowing down from there and the reason being is because you ve got to conduct this investigation with a certain amount of haste, because you you expect at some point your suspect. Could flee, could end up in prison for

thing else? He could just go away and make it harder for you to have an investigation to complete your investigation and find him so they've got to figure out how they can speed this, us up which I mean. This is all, interestingly, that the search for this guy. To be on the other side of things. Normally, when we see a documentary, it's based off the know how the serial killer grew up in his ears, a ship between him and his mother and stuff like that, me and then also once weep. It becomes a hollywood movie than it like. We, we glorify these people and we I am a rise of minutes. They are so great that I prefer win. That there should be more document, memories on the actual investigation to find this person, because that science and some of it it's just by happenstance or luck, but but to me that superpower

the navy, while in what they were the reason being to captain, is that they would use these methods. They were like coming up with these methods. As Dave, you know, as they were working the case, you know: they go home, every nine go well. How can we make this work better? How can we make this more efficient and they came up with this whole also small and their lives on the line. I mean they're there you know, and you sent you know less by all council assume their sweet people and females? Nonetheless, so so you know, these detectives are gone, the way need to solve this. We need to get closer to solving this, or there will be more victims and its, but some of this process still used today when you have a huge investigation. This is kind of the birthplace of these type types of investigations, so the best way to kind of despair. This whole situation that they set up their whole tactic here is think of a giant spreadsheet right

You could have listed on it, a hundred different guys, ok and on this bridge. She you're gonna, have different criteria and some of those guys will check a certain number of those boxes. while the more boxes that you check the higher your name is up on this one hundred best TED's list and their thought was that they could put three detectives in charge of the one hundred best tat and that those three detectives working that list over the course of one year should either be able find the suspect or clear all one hundred names, so they have now put them selves on a on a deadline for finding this ted and the way that you could work yours

up and be higher on. The list is having more checks on those different criteria. You know who actually has the name ted or was? Was this person known to use the alias ted? I does this person have a view w bug: do they have access to a veto, w bug health closer? They fit the description or they height. We age, things of that nature. How many tips are coming in with this person's name? Was he on the list? Because of a detective because of the fbi because of a tip the came in, all these different things will factor into figure out how high and how likely you are too be the actual ted that they are seeking. While the king county police department and the f b, I are putting together their list of the one hundred best best ted's. We have our ted bundy that they are actually

Looking for who is now located in salt lake city now, there's another event: that's going to take place. This is in the late afternoon of november eighth ted Bundy approached an eighteen year old telephone operator. Her name is Harold ranch- and this is at one of those malls- is, at the fashion, place mall and Murray Utah. Our ted identified himself as officer roseland of them murray police department. He told karel de ranch that some one had attempted to break into her vehicle. Now he's asked her to go with him back to the police department, because

he needs to take an official report of the incident and that she might even be able to identify the person that they believe they have in custody for the attempted break in. She agrees to go with him and and to go file. This complaint now on this trip. She does point out to this officer rosalynn that he is not going the right. action that that he was driving. You know completely wrong direction to the police department during the at the time she is starting to get weary and she starting to question who this person that she's at absolutely wet. While I'm in it's not clear, but I don't think he's dressed as a police officer know he he's he's. I do is in street clothes correct and she asked to for him,

we provide some form of identification. She should have done that before she got in the car. She said that he and she gets in the bug right now: you're off duty, police officer driving a a bug. Okay, I think she just thought he might have been some kind of detective and she asked for this identification. She says that he does kind of quickly flash a badge and she does say that the badge looked pretty soon, backed and when she started to get nervous and when she started get visibly. I was one of those star badges that the safe sheriff on age by it it thea the law. course generals further back here,

If she says once she becomes visibly nervous and she is thinking about getting out of this vehicle, he tries to handcuff her he and what was happening now. Captain he's attacking her and during this scuffle that's taking place in the vehicle he slaps a handcuff on her and he's got one wrist handcuffed right, he's trying to get the handcuff on the other wrist. What takes place, as he accidentally puts the handcuffs both cuffs on the same wrist. He thinks that he got her where he wants her well she's able to she's able to continue the struggle and she later gets out o the added the vehicle in escapes. This person that she was told was a police officer. Now you would think, having abducted this woman, pretending to be a and then in a scuffle inside the car and she scapes and she's even

a bit of evidence with her, because she's got the the handcuffs around her wrists now, so she has something of yours. You would think that this this person would then you know what I've had enough for one day. This didn't go well for me. I have but they can identify me. We got into an alteration. This is problematic for me: especially knowing the history that this person has. However, we're talking about somebody they cannot do. Probably can control themselves or their did desires. the urge so tat. And he then remembers that he knows that there is a production going on. You know a theatre production at a high school. Now this is we about nineteen miles away now, who Talking about here we're talking about TED Bundy, we're done about person that loves to draw a quarter we're talking about me that loves to drive and loves to troll and loves to kind of hunt for these victims, whether it be a person

that is going to use a ruse to obtain, or if somebody that he's going to seek out- but this is somebody that is his always on the prow days. Counselling coming up with these cons and these schemes of how can I find new victims well, for whatever reason he had seen either seen a he had got a whole a brochure for one of these high school theatre productions and this hops in his head immediately. You know this potential victim just escaped now. I need to go find a new victim. I can I I got a reach this high, this climax that I've been looking for, that I set out for so now. I need a new victim, so I'm dr nineteen miles away. He drives to the view my high school now. This is where the theatre production is just letting out. And there's again, this is a situation where we have a lot of people at the high school. This is a high risk situation for this. This suspect, and when he's there,

he loved him on the suspect, anymore tab you write recital a suspect like we don't know who he is said well ted, is later seen. He seemed pacing at the rear of the big at the parking lot. That's behind the theatre portion of the school, so he's in by multiple people being back there now, while Is there he's again approaching different people and he's asking them? You know telling them that he's a police officer and they he's still gone with it. Yeah and that he is there's things going on with these vehicles and he needs utica, over and identify this car or a needs you to come over and speak with him at some point. We not know exactly how, but outside of the auditorium, he is able to lord Deborah Jean can't she's only seventeen years old she's, a student at the very few, my high school, and he lures her and he

makes her now she's never seen again, and we don't. if there was a con you know or if it if it was just grab in her, no well physically, removing and weak he can surmise it. Yet that is what your exactly right. One of two things happened. He either tractor or he may have just panicked and just grab somebody and took off now a lot of people. Would your first thought is well. How do you make this jump immediately from karel de ranch to this seventeen year old girl at the high school? That's nineteen miles away. Well, the the body of Debbie of Deborah can't has never been found. However, what they do find in the parking lot scares me of the high school they find a small key. But what is the key that key when you put it into the handcuffs that were on karel de Roche round? It opens up the handcuffs

So we know that the same person that took karel de ranch took this seventeen year old girl, yeah. Well, that's mean some fascinating shit right. There yeah. Well, the thing is that what we are seeing here again captain is what, in my opinion, is a guy. It's absolutely addicted to this form of behaviour of addicted to these acts. In these events, these terrible events. what what are we seeing were seeing the same thing with it? We sought lakes Shamash, where he cannot stop himself. He cannot control himself, he's he's already at risk of getting caught, because the potential victim gets away and rather than coming down off of that high he's gotta go immediately to where he there's a large group of people and seek out a new victim putting himself I mean who bigger risk of getting caught, he's even seen lifelong learning and talking to people in the parking lot less than thirty. Forty minutes he's already attacking a new victim

and what we're gonna see here to captain is repeated behaviour. So what happened when things started? Getting hot The state of washington will all but on his linda, this ted Bundy had to transfer to you talk to go to school in utah. He didn't need to transfer to go to Utah he transferred because there's he seen drawings of himself on the news in the newspaper people were. You calling in in identifying him by name to the police. It got hot there, so he fled he's going to remain in utah. However, he's going to start driving quite a big distance to achieve this high that he's all we see he's going to drive out to the state of colorado and in nineteen. Seventy five he's going to attempt and abduct an attack and kill about five or six women and the state of colorado and nineteen? Seventy five now this

all going to come to a head, because in nineteen seventy five august, sixteenth ted Bundy is arrested, now I want to go ahead and throw out there everybody's going to get well. We know this story nick. No, I don't think that everybody does, because this is often reported as something as little as it was a routine traffic stop and it isn't that you ve always heard it reported yeah. I've heard it before pretty common reported away multiple times, and this is I get very upset about almost like the cops got lucky exactly well the dance, not what took place. That's not what took place at all, while speaking, truth, my friend well and here's the other thing that I wanna. Let me just kind of dive and it'll, probably for one thing that I get very laid out crime we talk about ted Bundy is theirs, there's a few things that always come up. You know people say well, you know he had a rough childhood. Well that

actually not the truth. You know a lot of people will say: well they his Mother was more willing. We differ on this matter. We For on you gotta. Let me them for a little bit, but the thought here is did his mother was pretending to be his her because she had him out of wedlock at a young age and that something that you didn't do back then. So then his grandparents become his. Parents and then they're going to he's going to grow up believing this for all of his childhood life and that's absolutely not the truth. His mother and him moved away from the grandparents' home when he was about six or seven, so maybe this took place, but if it did, it only took place for the very early stages of his life and how did he know prick quickly into his life, that his mother was not his sister and was in fact his mother was because They moved to Washington, she got remarried and he was.

Eased by her and his step farther from a young age and though in her in his step father had for children so they he. He had a more court. Unquote normal. I've heard the most would agree with the other thing. To is that there is this thought that his grandfather father at him with his mother, and that is absolutely there if there's no truth, that at all that's at best, it's just a bit. neighbourhood rumour that may have come up. I dont know where came along, I long and probably care long, there's the while theirs validity to this, because one of ted Bundy lawyers heard these claims Their office then investigated it, and he says on record that heavy bills, I ve had enough evidence to prove it, but he didn't have the smoking gun to say yes for certain at ted bodies. Grandfather was his father, I'm glad

brought that up, because I had wondered always wondered where that rumor, that story originated from, and maybe that's the birthplace of it, but but from what I've everything that I've seen while because afterwards hindsight it was like how How did this sicko happen? You know everybody wanted to find these reasons always porn. No porno. You know his addiction to porno, or maybe he was dropped when he was a baby. They were trying to find these answers and I think that's where it came from, will maybe it's like a birth, the factor, you know some sort of incest. Oh yes, society once answers. You don't believe nobody wants to believe that a young good looking somewhat seemingly successful college student law student is going to go on murder as many women as we possibly can, but for

Everything that I've seen is that his mother had an on again off again relationship with this man for for many years, and he fathered, ted, Bundy and TED got his last name from his adventure. step father. However, the is real father didn't wanna, have kids didn't wanna, have a didn't want settled down and get married in this. I don't have the the man's name in front of me, but it sounds like this is something that he did more than once throughout his lifetime, but but the real reason for my venting here is that I believe things like or over sensationalize. You know the date that they also, champion the killer, when you see the biographies and when you see the documentaries on TED Bundy, both of those things usually come up about his mother, pretending to be a sister

and they they kind of gloss over it and may give the impression that that took place over the course of his entire childhood, and that's just not the case now. The thing that that makes me angry is that when something good in something positive actually happens in a story like this, they don't spend the time on it, and this is what I'm talking about Think about the apprehension of ted Bundy. This took place in the sun in a suburb of salt lake city. This is in granger now it. This is just good old fashioned police work, and this is the stuff that should be championed when we're talking stories like this. We have officer heyward now, who is he he's just a lit local cop, but he's a is damn good at his job right am. I had his to office or hey what here, because I am, he might have been a slouch well, did this one thing good. While I believe that, especially if you're in a smaller town like this, the it is very important to your job as a police officer that you know your town and that you know your town,

people, and you know what's going on and in and around your now. Now sitting there at the end of his shift and he's filling out his police log for the day and his pay. Work anything you know whenever they do at the end of their shift and during the course of this, while he sitting there. He sees this bug this v w pass him more than once. and he this is not a vehicle that hebrew he recognizes from the town where the neighborhood so immediate. He's on learn, you know when when you see somebody come into your town, that you don't recognize the vehicle, this is good old fashioned police work and what going on in this area- is there is a home that is very close by where the officer is parked in these filling out his paperwork now who is his home? Belong to? This belongs to people that he knows that are on vacation, their away and home is only being occupied by the two older teenage daughters. Now he sees this Vida vw bug

Almost you know more than once, almost like, like us, shark circling its prey where it keith. He believes that that this vehicle has an interest, in that whole print, and so now he's he's very curious about this vehicle so using his copy he's going to approach the vehicle and attempt to do routine traffic stop well. The car does not want to pull over and this turns into a bit of a chase, but it's not like it's not like a super crazy. You know, like you see, on tv cops chase. was an oj chase, but but that the person in the carp clearly doesn't want to be pulled over

eventually he's pulled over and during the course of which the officer hey would make several observations. The first thing that he notices is that the the front seat of the v w bug is not it's not like secured it's, not it's not screwed it, which is which is extremely rare on and so he starts to question the driver and he wants no, you know what's what your backstory, who are you and why are you here and the person driving the vehicle explains that his name is ted Bundy in that he's a law student in college and there he just in town, and he was he was in town to see a movie. Well, what movie, where you see, and he was The towering inferno is what ted Bundy says. While the officer says he knows his town, the local theatre is not showing that movie so again,

is on high alert he's not believing anything that this guy says and he wants to search the vehicle once he searches the vehicle he finds. What he believes is a burglar kit and inside this kit, there's there's more other things here, but you he sees pantyhose a flashlight, a ski mask, handcuffs, a crowbar and ice, and he also finds quite a bit of gas receipts and now that he has the car open. He's also noticed notice that the door latch handle is missing from the passenger side door ring, which is odd as well. In this ted Bundy that he pulled over is dressed all in black. Well, here's some strange things here he's thinking to himself, while a young, a young handsome college man who should be at college trying to pick up a woman instead he's in the middle, the suburb driving around

in the middle of the night dressed all in black. This doesn't make sense to me, and this is where TED Bundy has picked up and apprehended and he's arrested on suspicion of burglary, and heap. He would be asked by the officer. What are these items for and he says well, you know I must gear. So that's. Why have a scheme ask brain? What was what's the handcuffs for you know. Well, I'm a law student now use these in class two when we give our presentations so Mr Bonde right unisex answer for every rain, but godless of his answers. He finds himself behind bars our rights. Now we got TED The in jail and there's so much more to talk about this, so we're gonna have to do that and another part. I think that covers us for the ted martyrs portion of this. he's a little recommended reading for you today. I want to recommend the bundy murders, a comprehensive history. This is by Kevin m Sullivan. I really like this book. This book came out just a few years ago, but one thing

we're always searching for. You know it's like you know it's kind of like jack, the Ripper there's a hundred books out there right, ted, Bundy, there's, there's so many books out there and to be honest with you, there's only probably a handful, maybe ten There are good that are great books out there. This is definitely handfuls. So the why this one so good? Is it just came out a few years ago and at first my initial thought was all great another bundy book this. This Kevin him solving just once to make a name for himself by telling the same old story. That's been told a hundred times. That's not the case. There isn't plenty of new information in this book. So if you read out other bundy books, this is one that you'll want to pick up plenty of new information. He does a really good job of taking eat, eater confessions and later discussions with bundy things. That would happen much further down the line and piecing them gather with with the things that were missing from the investigations and he's completing right, nor if you're looking back on it, hindsight. Yes, so that

the bundy murders. I can a comprehensive history by Kevin him solvent. You can pick that up by going to our website, look on the recommended page. We have our books listed there yet and if you go to true true crime garage, dot com and click on our amazon banner. You can buy anything if, seen on instagram I have my old diver captain. It's the captain divers helmet that was sought, scuba, Steve scuba, scuba captain that was bought the through amazon and they d kicker little love to us at no charge to you so and for everything. grand garage took out shoe crime, garage dot com makes trees upon the mailing list and make sure you tell a friend about the show. It goes a long way and all for media follows stamp chat now on on on tat called untapped. you can follow nick on on untapped at true crime,

If you follow me on their don't judge me, don't judge other drinking this going on a tuesday. There will be judging our aid that wrap up this we'll see gas tomorrow, so next time be good. Besides this fathers I find the perfect gift for the dad who loves the perfect yard. Right now say fifty dollars on the steel fsc. Fifty seven battery trimmer set set includes the FS a fifty seven battery trimmer, plus the ak ten battery and El Wanna. One charger offer only one hundred and forty nine dollars and ninety nine cents. Real steel, find you

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