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Welcome to true crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing, thanks for listening, I'm your host nick and with me, as always, this guy is either wrong or perfectly right every time he is the captain. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It's good to be seen, and it's good to see. You thanks. philistine, thanks for telling your mother all right. Today we are drinking bourbon barrel, aged milk and cookies by the crafty brewers. Wicked we'd brewing garage, great for and Water bottle caps out of five captain I just added to steal the comments from an untapped check, from one of my untapped friends Andrews, says: been barrel. Age. Milking cookies is sweet, smooth, dark, chocolate, cookies and slight bourbon, taste, a real, solid, stout beer for sure and andrew. You are exactly right, my friend and this week's beer was

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but some liquid encouragement for next week shows go to true crime, garage dot, com and click on our donate button. It makes the cats phrases flow a little bit better and that's enough of the business he up. Everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer. Let's talk, some true crime The the After the arrest of the beloved doktor vince kilmer, people The town were needless to say, shocked. Many of them are, used to believe it was even true.

They arise the it was a mercy killing. The events knew his dad was beyond help and decided to put him out of his misery But as pointed out on this american life, vince was a medical doctor. Wouldn't it be more likely that he would do so with pills rather than a violent strangulation, severing the fingers and dumping the body. One thing about his patience as well, so my aids patients broke haven't seen him in a year and to know him as this great doktor than also psych. Your doctor murdered his father, and I mean it made no sense to any one who knew and loved vince kilmer events was extradited to virginia where the body was found from north carolina to stand. pretty quickly. After events was arrested, he confessed to strangling his father and his first court appearance for the first

degree murder charge. He told the judge that his brain wasn't working right, but he was assessed by psychologist and deemed fit to stand trial it was while vince was sitting in jail in washington county virginia. That vince started writing a series of letters to the bristol herald courier newspaper based in Bristol Virginia. This is around march of two thousand and five, while vince admitted that he had killed his father and mutilated the corpse he said these letters that the actual murder had taken place in tennessee, not virginia There was no reason he said for him to be in April. In jail at all. He. actually murdered his father in carter, county tennessee, he wrote quote Ivan skill. Committed manslaughter on june, twenty nine two thousand and four. It did not happen. virginia the only thing:

happened in Virginia. Was the body ended up there? I am confessing happened in Elisabeth in tennessee now shooting county virginia sheriffs detectives were dubious of these claims. Instead vincent store we had changed several times. Debbie also stated he's not in his right mind, well then says in one letter quote each time I tell them laurie. It is a little different. You can't include every till every time you tell a story, a lot of it does not make sense, but that also shows it was not planned. End quote: it seemed that vince was eager prove that he hadn't planned the murder and whatever it was. He had done, he preferred to be held accountable in tennessee, but after meeting with vents and receiving a full confession in person. Tennessee authorities weren't able to confirm that any crime had taken place in their state. They only

had vinci's word to go by the letters vents sent to the herald carrier gave a glimpse into what would be the basis of vince gilmore defence at trial. Vince also gave several phone interviews with journalists from the paper several in person views and one tv interview from prison, and he told the following story- that on the day before he killed his father, he vince had stopped taking antidepressant like soprano vince had decided he said

he could do without the drug. This is a little strange given that vince was a medical doctor and should have known how unsafe it was to stop taking these drugs. So abruptly ray evince, gilmer went off lexapro, cold turkey. He definitely could have suffered adverse effects vii, but would you really suffer them so quickly? You'd think that there'd be some lag time like if you're taken the pill every twenty four hours or so like that, if he distant take them one day they get sunlight. You know he stopped taking them a few days before and now we're going to have the the effects. Those effects for the next couple of weeks can be pretty dramatic. Well and that's what really cause a lot of this stuff into question, one. What would the expected outcome of of someone stopping taking these drugs so abruptly.

and then to they couldn't find any prescription for this and also they they had little proof. That taken a was actually even taking them now, vince, say repeatedly to psychologist prison die there's guards in the media that his brain was not working bright without lex opera. In fact, he said in the wake of stopping taking the drug. He didn't feel himself at all. all now. These are his words. Ok, he said he fell mentally retarded and reporters and others who met with him in prison notice that vince, make strange head movements and gestures, he would shake He would become emotional and cry spontaneously and you're saying that's not normal to do. Well, it's not perceived to be normal. Okay, why? I need to go see a therapist. Well, the the other thing, though too, because this is this is going to be come a key thing in the

case in the story, because a lot of this behaviour in what vince could have been doing before The time of the murder will fall into his defence right because vince stated in a tv interview the one that we have been discussing from prison that he was not someone who could hurt anyone. He denied out that he had intended to kill his father vincent their stated that he killed his father in a fit of anger, brought on by mental problems and years resentment over childhood sexual abuse. He said quote: I did not commit murder. The things that happened that night were beyond my control and quote way actually happened that night, according to fences, letters any details. This in these letters was this Vince was driving his father and his truck moving to a closer nursing home with a plan to go cod.

acting along the way, but his father started. Taunting him during the ninety minute, DR, during which vince stopped at an arby's and a gas station, the taunting worsen vince wrote quote my father started sexually molesting me when I was six and my sister when she was three rain. Mom tried to shelter us, but it kept on continued to try to molest us as adults as they drove in said don kept. Taunting quote. He was always saying filthy disguise, doing things to remind me of what happened here still over and try to pull my head to his crotch. The voices took over from there I started during voices telling me to kill people, voices in my head were telling me to kill my father and quote law and to be clear about this too.

Gilmore never said that his father was saying these things all the time like the way. He is claiming that at some point as father molested them for a series of years then then it stopped and then his dad didn't bring it up dead and talk about it. So now, with his dad having some kind of dementia or whatever their now riding in the car and he's robin His sons leg and talking to home- and a harassing them about this time period. Almost you know, and almost acting as if his son. The doctor is not. these some years old or whatever years at the time, but as as, if he's a child, and so, as that, all that stuff is happening now. The doktor claims that I d snapped

yeah, he says what what happened next was a blur quote, nothing made sense from then on at some point he said filled his father and loaded his body into the back of the pick up, he waited until dark and then stopped at food city and Elizabeth and to buy gloves and a top to cover the body in the truck bed He stopped on a back road and decided to cut off dolphins, fingers and thumbs to try to hide the identity. He wrote quote, I had a saw in my truck forestalling limbs in my yard. It took five minutes, vince told investigators. He put the fingers in a plastic bag and dropped them in a river. This, according to carter counties, hansen, who met with vince in prison. On march sixteenth in this interview, vince

fast to the murder on camera, denying vehemently that he had planned the whole thing. The sheriff and his deputies noted that vince was acting very strange that he was borderline, incoherent, rambling and couldn't complete a thought, and he was breathing hard, shuffling an agitated vince told the man he ended up in washington county where he had than the ninety nineties, while studying as a resident at bristol regional medical center in tennessee saying quo. I just added to drop the body on the side of the road. My cover up of the crime was pitiful, if I had planned this, I would have had something to cover the body with I covered the body I didn't know where to go, or what to do? I drove aimlessly. My brain was not working right right now. He he might have covered the body when it was in the truck bad, but when he

dumped dolphins, lifeless body on the side of the road dalton wasn't covered by anything he was. He was out there really for anybody, buddy defined, which was, as I stated in the first episode, I thought was a little shocking in itself to make all of these moves and all these efforts to hide the identity of the victim that would ultimately be found on this. the road when he could it additional efforts to conceal the body itself, even further right think alike story to me as one. Yet this, inter guy for whatever reason, snaps but probably won a snapped, normally If something going on with them, he snaps it. Then he kills his father and then he tells you you know I could have done this better. You don't I'm a smart guy. I could have covered him up better than my attempt to

discard the body is a poor attempt in that sounds sick, but I think he's trying to prove like hey. I could. you're. My doctor, I could even done this better right. You got we're looking for proof of premeditated murder, I'm trying to provide you some proof that it was not premeditated right and just the fact that he is a doctor and has again struck, I think, struggling with something, but with the idea that, like he saying, look, I'm smart enough to. to have taken some steps, but my brains out workin enough to let me take all the steps I pride needed to take so that you could ever find the body. Therefore you'd never be able to charge. Down well and obviously we're just picking apart pieces of the interview that we mention right as well as parts of letters but as far as the letters go that the herald courier reporter sums up the article about the letters as a whole and

gives this evaluation and published it. On march, seventeen two thousand and five, which read the letters which over the details of how the father died tell a sometimes ray blink story of mental illness, rage and confusion. It's the latest twist and a case that investigators have come, one of the most bizarre and gruesome in recent memory I mean it's definitely gruesome. As far as I just remember, the car skimmed over the fact. We know that he basically cut off every single thing running that he he schemes yeah yeah? I decided to do this air pulled over the side of the road. It took five minutes, but just yeah, but even as a gruesome, five minutes hm well. Let's talk about the flip side of the point because we have vince Gilmore. Who saying look I I was out of my mind. I was not in control of the moon.

was not premeditated and happened as a result of all of these emerging factor. Strain it is in my head, yup the the stopped and I stopped taking this drug and multiple things here. So the other side would be that a lot of people. You know said that it's pretty much evident from listening to The tapes of vince evinces prison conversation with with friends and supporters that vince wanted people to believe that there was something wrong with it. That there might not be something wrong at his act, yeah vince and pointed out that the news camera footage they showed him being placed in it. Police car, well it showed him having this sort of head bob tick going on in that footage. Now. Indicated the people around him that he had tremors that he could not explain now

law enforcement and prosecutors weren't buying it they labelled vince kilmer, as quote highly manipulative. They conducted an experiment where they set up video cameras to film the exercise yard in the prison. The cameras would catch, vince, playing basketball or exercising normally, but when an officer of the court or a guard would step into the scene, vince would start to shuffle suffer from ticks, faker an act physically, not in control, his body and then a short time later. He would seem to return to normal. He starts playing like air. Jordan is like to add three sixty dunks. And then every time they get around he's dead, twitching right easy. He can't do anything so Kim Its air jordans trial. Yes, so undeterred by

answers assertions that he had committed a crime in their state. Washington Many prosecutors proceeded with the murder trial based on the state law. That made them to prosecute the case since the body was recovered and virginia vince kilmer to trial on august. Fifteenth two thousand and five prosecutors painted vince is a cold blue the killer, who plan the murder of his father, they pointed to the following circumstantial and other evidence. One vince confessed to me. His father to he had done so in a brutal fashion, strangling him twice in cutting off his fingers. Three vince came prepared to commit murder with the saw and the rope already in his truck for someone who helped dalton into vinci's truck that fateful day actually heard. Vince say this is their testing? I heard vince say to his father: quote: I've been waiting for this day for a long time. Some

information vince, was overwhelmed by the amount of debt he was in. There was also no evidence to back up vinci's claims of abuse at the hands of his father. Furthermore, at trial, the prosecution presented tapes of conversations vince had in prison, which were quite damning. In the conversations with his mother and friends, he appeared to be trying to manipulate the venue he would be prosecuted in an order. To get the most leniency, Remember the letters the newspaper where vince seti shouldn't be, trial and virginia rang because he actually killed his father in tennessee. Warn the tapes vince says to his mother, a guy here said carter, county tennessee is the best place to go just to receive a shorter sense, but he's also attacking people in prison while an virginia had the death penalty bright and in a

their phone call with a friend vince mention that he was trying to work out a deal with a dossier and north carolina sounded very much like vince gilmore was forum shopping and Is his story changed accordingly to try to get there thing where he wanted it to go right, But the nail and vincent coffin was hammered home by the fact that the clinical psychologists who had evaluate advance to determine whether he was fit to stand. Trial found him to be restless, agitated and fidgety, but concluded that vince was faking this. This was all a big fake. According to them his quote symptoms. Quote just didn't fit any known psychiatric disorder. He determined that vince was saying I address who also examined. Vince found him to be evasive, dramatic and manipulative. The prosecution alleged that vince had deliberately started acting bizarrely, while price

to the murder as part of his long term plan to fake insanity, as a body in doing this for over a year or close to a year. So you think that's that's some commitment yet well. It's in you can knit yourself beforehand or you can find yourself committed to present the rest of your life or possibly facing a death penalty. Now very questionable judgment, call in an ice say that, with all honesty, the judge agreed to allow vince to represent himself at his trial. This is great. We never we never like this when pull the bundy even when people seem to behaving somewhat normally He had a lawyer dawn davidson present, with whom he consulted from time to time, but vince was the one up there, questioning people in front of the jury and by all accounts.

It was a disaster yellow when you're attacking people in prison and york, scarlet changing their story and your conflict stating to people that there's something broken in your brain. They in our work and right, they somewhat should defend yourself. Well, you so have to wonder. Is this also hey an attempt that I can put on a theatrical performance right in front of this jury? and maybe maybe somehow we get, this I've been deemed carpet to stand trial me Be my actions or my theatrical presentation might change that opinion the that now my insanity. Defence is a real actual defence. So To sum this up in, Many, you some other people's words to sum this up, because I

There was a lot of good play by play, so to speak on the way that this went down. Vince was not able to keep his train of thought. This was very noticeable or effectively cross, examine witnesses, He stumbled over words. He forgot what he was talking about any rambled in a sort of stream of consciousness type of manner. Now davidson said that he could not string together a thought or ask a coherent question: and that watching it was like watching. Someone commit suicide with a butter knife, evinces defence, as a very unorthodox one vince blame the actions on serotonin rather the lack thereof. Now prevents, is a medical doctor. He told anyone who would listen and many who won that he knew what he needed to fix his brain and it was an ass S. R. I medication, vince told the jury.

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see age, you, MBA, casino, dot com play for free play for fun play now no purchase necessary void where prohibited by law, eighteen plus terms and conditions apply, see website. For details cheers. This might be the closest I ever get to one of my dreams, and that would be to do the music for this american life. Just one episode, I don't want paid that says: it'd be the ultimate dream of mine. There you go and I've ives have sent them a lot of message I'm never never get a reply yet well. Regarding this trial captain, I dont think that some of the best fiction authors out there could could script. This thing I mean, as is the way that it sounds that it was going down king

Well, there you go. Vinci's mother Gloria testified at the trial, and she states that Dalton her husband, Dalton Gilmore, did have a history of mental problems and he had violent outburst towards her and the kids, but the prosecutes were able to show that there was really there really wasn't. The evidence of the violence, sexual abuse alleged by vents right. Although Vincent stir was alleged to have backed up the abuse story. She disappeared prior to the trial, so vince wasn't able to produce any operating witnesses and what witnesses he did call in the course of the trial. Were frankly, a relevant or even harmful to his cause, humours mental, this order, argument, backfired and court when his expert, witness his expert witness claimed,

his behaviour sounded more like anxiety, rather than a disorder and vince call his ex girlfriend to the stand and asked her quote to the best of your knowledge. Have I heard anyone or killed anyone to which she responded? Your father right. Well, the jury didn't buy. Vinci's insanity defence jurors noted that at times, vince seemed quote nuts, but other time He was totally normal. They believed he was faking, they convicted him a first degree murder. The judge said at a post trial. Hearing quote the defendant would go into an he would look up to see if the jury was buying it. When the jury wasn't buying it, he would go back to normal. It was clear that he was acting

four cents to life in prison and at the trial the judge said the jury found you to be a cold blooded killer. He says this direct. plea to vince gilmer yeah. So that's where the story would end. Basically, we have this guy. That was a he was a great guy who's great doctor. He was husband for, while than he has his car accident. Maybe that have some effect on him. Maybe it's maybe he had some mental thing that was creeping upon him. So are those things you know our canoe rare raw. Their ugly head over time and of age, or maybe this trauma as as as a child rearing its ugly head but either way he kills. His father now he's in jail. It's kind of where the story would stop sent to prison for the rest of his life life since, but now this guy that if you heard him talk

He definitely sounds like there's something wrong with them and then to find out, they he's attacking a heat. I mean I've said it five or six times during this show, he keeps attacking people in prison and now he's losing teeth because he's losing these fights me is not a fighter, and so, then he is he's just now. I got all right he's. Not a winning fighting is definitely a fighter. but now you have this guy that took over his practice with the same last name yeah and he's curious. Why are these people saying such good things about him? He knows what it takes. What man it takes to what kind of man or woman. I guess it takes to run this type of facility and then to hear what he Did it the line up to Ben goma, right isn't. He starts ask some questions like any. You know walk of life.

or any line of work or any career choice, people can be doctors, but doktor Ben Gilmore is hearing from previous patients and the staff that he works closely with that, the former that the previous doktor doktor vince kilmer, the murderer, was good doctor was a great, a doctor, a caring doctor and a good man right now. So that's where this story takes a bit of a twist, because we have already talked about doktor ben reaching out to doktor vince, whose already in prison by this time they start off with just trading some letters back and forth. Then it goes to phone conversations and then to meeting in person at the prison and through all of this correspondence the

Your time doktor been gilmore. Is he's wandering look the appearance of this man of doktor vince, the appearance of the prisoner, the the the letters that he's writing the words that he speaking the interactions with him. It looks to doktor Ben is this man is actually sick that he did. you know, regardless of you, know, Ben Doktor been knows that the authorities believe that vince was manufacturing his symptoms right, but now doktor and has to wonder what would be. Incentive for vince to continue to fake these symptoms. Sick years into the life term by the time the day are interacting with each other right. So the trap over. There's no reason the fake it you're not put out who you put in this fake, show on four This might be real right.

and also he took an oath. So what's the worst thing that can happen yet test it right it. Let us give em a test and if we get if we take the simple tat, we might be able to figure out what's wrong with them. If there is anything wrong with them, but so basic What happens? Is we have doktor band? He decides that it's likely to evince gilmore was actually sick and he was determined to get to the bottom of it, so he going, but he doesn't know what the what the affliction is. He doesn't know what's wrong with vince go right so returns to the prison in the company of inexperienced psychiatrist and Two of them met with vince so that the psychiatrist could observe vince for himself, After the meeting the two doctors they the prison they talk there talking there trying to come up with theories as to what could be wrong with vince and the psychiatrist actually didn't think that it.

As the s s r I withdraw. He didn't think that that that that would explain he was seeing re- also didn't it might explain some of the symptoms, but not all of them. He also I think that it was the head injury either and they just kind of kept coming up empty in the beginning and then eventually the psychiatry says you know, could he have convince have huntington's disease, to which doktor ban thought to himself that this fits this might fit fair, rare, so doktor been was desperate to get vince tested for huntington's he's. The test is a simple blood test, and luckily these tests for huntington's for the gene or one hundred percent act There is virtually no chance for error. He was unsure how to proceed until three weeks later, when he covered that vince had been moved to a psychiatric hospital after threatening

commit suicide with a razor blade. There was found in his cell doctor, met with a social worker at the hospital and suggested that they test vince for huntington's and they did and doktor was not surprised to learn that the test was positive. Vince had forty three repeat markers for huntington's disease. So what is huntington disease I hears what I was. Define it in your no doctor. That's right! That's right! It is a hereditary, neurological disease in which the carriers, neurological condition deteriorates over time Civically! According to the mayo clinic, that is these causes the progressive, degeneration of nerve cells in the brain, eventually it leads to loss of bodily and cognitive control and then death. It has been described as a cruel

combination of ale S, parkinson's and alzheimer's. Equally. There are no symptoms until age, thirty or forty. and then the severity of the cognitive and behavioral symptoms and on the number of genetic markers for the disease, the sufferer has one the common symptoms of the disease is a loss of control of the muscular system resulting in dance like ticks, also common, are muscular rigidity slow or abnormal. I movements, impaired balance and difficulty speaking or swallowing other symptoms include cognitive. Deterioration personality changes, impulsive mood, swings, irritability, aggression and even psychological symptoms, typical, typically associated with speed a friend you reward psychosis. So I knew there was something wrong in distant know, exactly where it was yes,

ass, an in look, I mean when we rattle off all of those symptoms and all of what could be going on with one individual, the your observing that that's a lot of different things here they could be going on, which could could be very difficult for even a very good doctor to pinpoint the actual disease or pinpoint what is actually going on with that person. Just based off of visually, seeing them remind you a lot of these Actions are probably taking place on the other side of prison bars, or at least glass by it, very often misdiagnosed, apparently, because these significant aspect of huntington's is that it causes psychiatric disorders like depression mania,

bipolar disorder and can actually vary widely in the symptoms exhibited by different patients yeah. I would assume that this is miss diagnosed lie. by bipolar or schizophrenia. Yes- and oh, what a bleak huntington's patients are noted, often to clash with law enforcement and this because of their uncontrollable impulsive actions or even drunken appearance or their movements appear to be that of a drunken person when, when really there, not obvious rent it. This is a difficult thing here: captain because Really what all this may suggest is that we have. We definitely have this doctor doktor been Gilmore who's, trying to find out what happened to doktor,

it's. How did he go from being a carrying loving doktor to two murdering his father? I don't think that complex. He has huntington's disease when you with that yeah, but so so that last bit of information that the that I threw out there in regards to what I could find online about huntington's disease, the the portion of the of where it says, maintains patients are noted too often clash with law enforcement. Look, I think, that's a that's a difficult thing to really state and say at that You know, that's not my information. That's me passing along some information that I found right and I dont know the answer here- is just simply that he has huntington's disease and that's why he killed his father that doesn't that part of it as a percentage of it right. I think that

that could be a part of it, but- and I remember when they covered this on this american life- that at some point I believe, a sarah caning. She offered a may be somewhat of an apology, because I think some people came out the show in regards to how they may have represented all misrepresented people that are there Huntington's disease right and I think it might take from hearing there shall was not so much that they are pointing towards honey tins disease as being the cause of this murder. Now I think really what this story tells me and keep him This is not everybody's got to keep bear the mine went when they listen to this show or or to other shows this. Work in life didn't write this story. Data

This isn't some fictitious story that they came up with. This is live reliable. This is real life lies crawled through crime, grudge, Nada, fictitious crime garage are simply reporting the story of something that actually happened, that involved a bunch of other people, and really what you have here is one doctors, dedication, doktor Ben Gilmore, one doctors, dedication to determine what was wrong. What is wrong with the man that I see before me now, six years after the murder, when it What is wrong with this individual that I'm interacting now with now not necessary, What was wrong with him at the time it might bring to it might help Some of that light, or give some suggestions as to what could have been going on with his individual before he murdered his father, but it simply adopt

after looking at a man in a prison in viewing him as a possible patient as a patient as somebody that he should try to take care of, and that's what, came. The conclusion was that this man absolutely did have huntington's disease do so. I think that, with this situation,. first we have doktor Ben gilmore trying to look into this and see what was going on here, wants to know. Why, just like we started off so saying that all Then, when we look at a murderer after the fact after we know that their guilty after we know that they one hundred percent did it. We still want to know why he wanted to know why I think it the situation, the huntington's disease and god bless doktor ben Gilmore for fort This was a lot of stuff. You didn't have to do

a lot of effort that he didn't have to do as it was beyond us, though the chances are of his last names, not gilmore, just like vince kilmer the stories, with all the other guy credit I went off the deep end and killed his father, okay, cool moving on you know, but the fact that it was taken over a practice and you have the same name and their similarities that that's kind of what drove that that extra mile to get to that answer. You know where I think and but good because again, maybe it's just a percentage of the reason of why this murder took place but, like the big difference,

when you, especially if you listen to the episode, is when you hear him talk the first time, vince gilmer, and then you hear him talk after they put him on medicine and it's like a different person and he's not now attacking people get in. It have to fight that. He can't even he shouldn't be getting into he's almost became a different person immediately within a couple of days. of being medicated right- and I mean you can sit there and say all you want that all he could have been could have been faking. It did maybe more be. Maybe there was some faking going on, but it doesn't matter. We know them can't I faked it. We know no one hundred percent out that yeah according to the blood test, you can't vacant blood tests, so I dont know the doktor been Gilmore got his answer as to why, but then we're tasked with looking on this story and all the information we know in wandering still wondering why an

think that for me I keep goin back to whole thing of. Was this actually premeditated or was it spur of the moment? I think that you can have all these facts Go into why doktor vince gilmore committed this murder and it still be premeditated. I think, then, on the other side, the fence, you could have all these factors that went into it and not be premeditated at all. I do I find it strange that they went way out of their way to this court and quote kayaking trip seems very weird to me. I wouldn't discredit I. take away from the fact that we know that he likely had a severe head injury. I think that the I think that's a percentage of this. All too I agree, and I you know we ve made a little light of it yesterday, but you know you ask me.

have I seen or witness people throughout the history of the course of my life. People behave sometimes dramatic. A different after a head injury and the sad truth is yes, and often it's not it's not. You know, someone is a good person and becomes a better person. It's usually at some strange things that I wouldn't have thought about the person before the head injury. If that makes any sense

Well, I had I had a student that he came to me after a head injury. I wanted to learn how to play guitar. He is in his sixties and he didn't seem normal six year old. He almost acted like a almost like an eight year old or tenure, but real nice, real polite and his and his girlfriend. God bless her. She said: look he wouwd were dating for just a little bit. He had an accident at work. He basically acts like a little kid now and and but you know, he's nice, he means well and- and I didn't know him before- but I definitely saw the effects of it afterwards and I know of at least one of individual did. I thought that I knew very well for a long period of time that you know didn't never get into much trouble. If it was. It was all you know, small time, stuff, normal teenager type, stuff and

This person at some point suffered a head injury. Maybe more than one and later in life, exhibited violent behaviors that I never thought they were capable of yeah. I I think that, whether it's premeditated or not, that that doesn't really matter too much to me cause I like, I said I think it's a combination of having this disease is headed injury, a lot of factors. The fact that you know if, if the allegations of molestation are true, you know that's a factor as well, and then this crime takes place, but it's great to see that somebody cares and goes the extra mile to say hey, especially with mental illness, because it's just something that we're not talking. We just don't talk about enough in this country and it's like so taboo and it's like the amount of emails that I still get first

in all it's so great that you talked about depression. We all should be talking about it. Every baby faces depression at some point and the fact that I'm that this is another thing by talking about this disease, that somebody can go hey my my uncle's acting a little strange hey. Maybe we can test them for this n and I think that this opens up the gate ways of communication yeah and to be perfectly clear here I mean yes, we pointed out that the doktor vince gomer at the time that he murdered His father, he was at the age where the symptoms of huntington's are usually just starting to really set in and in the year before the crime he exhibited the changes in behaviour that we discussed, including anxiety and other psychological symptoms. He suffered a significant head injury, but

to be very clear. Huntington's does not typically cause people to become violent. Ok and same thing goes with head. Injuries does not typically cause people to become violent. We are simply looking at a very specific story of of a of a man who killed his father and asking the question of what right. But each individuals can be affected differently by a disease and each individual is going to be affected differently by head injury. Vince kilmer has since started to take s s r. I medication select, sir, to help states. Eyes. His brain and the results have been dramatic, as pointed out by the captain, as noted by Ben Gill, Events is now able to conduct a normal conversation and his symptoms have eased, but sadly, the only treatment for huntington's is symptomatic.

There is no cure and eventually the disease will overtake vince in end. His life now been given more. other advocates for vince, including his attorney dawn davidson the virginia innocence. Project are pushing for vince to receive aid. Conditional release from prison and be placed mental health facility to receive the care he needs Vincent No such certainly calls into question the cat additionality of allowing him to represent himself at trial. And, of course it calls into question whether vince skill was in his right mind when he killed his father and cut off his fingers. and here's a little recommendation before we leave you this week, you'll want to check out hbo new doc, you series the case against, add nonsense.

And while you're at it check out our show off the record available on sticker premium, where we have been discussing the case against. Add nonsense. guess so every sunday and new episode comes out. We ve cover part one and part to ah so next week after we watch part three on sunday on Monday will talk about part three, so check it out. You can kind of wants the documentary with the captain and the current and if you want to sign up for state premium, just go to our website. True crime garage dot com to start listening to day or until next week everybody be b.

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