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Wayne Greavette /// Part 1 /// 259

2018-11-27 | 🔗

Wayne Greavette /// Part 1 /// 259

Part 1 of 2


Husband and Father Wayne Greavette received a gift unexpectedly. It was a neatly prepared package delivered to his mailbox. The package was brought into his home. Wayne opened the box with his family in the room. Inside he found a large flashlight and letter. Wayne flicked the ON switch of the flashlight and BOOM it exploded! Beer of the Week - Clockwork Tangerine by BrewDog Garage Grade - 4 and a half bottle caps out of 5

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bedtime is rough even for peanut. That's why people will try anything to fall. Asleep. Head stands before bed, even blowing bubbles but actually has a trick that works every time. A new timber, peter mattress, it adapts to your bodies, needs to help me fall asleep, faster and stay asleep. A longer you'll wake up feeling refreshed every day even being at agrees, so did the wacky bedtime rituals had to actually to take home a temper peter today, I
the. Welcome to program garage wherever you are whatever you're doing. Thanks were listening. I'm your hosts naked with me, as always, is a guy that, unlike drew breeze in zeke, elliot he actually at thanksgiving day off. He is the arrested captain. Why actually had a very tough match up in the sea? I fell where I crush Johnny manzella, but thanks for watching
It's got to be seen as good to see you thanks for listening. Thanks for town of france, this week we are simply not clockwork tangerine by brutal garage, great four and a half bottle caps out of five. This is a tangerine session I ba and was the winner of the two thousand and seventeen prototype challenge. This is a second strength the eight infused with tangerine, and this week's beer was brought to us by these strong, strong friends of the show right here. First up we have thomas from Birmingham alabama with the donation to the beer, fun and some good beer suggestions as well, and the way she has made to mary Ellen parts and no in a rays of the glass goes out to Sarah in baltimore maryland and a big sounds jenny from the shamrock jenny
from ireland. Oh here's, another jenny from ter, lock, california, and last but not least, we have holly and peoria illinois are thanks to everybody that filled up the fridge. This week we like to fill up the fridge from ass. We go to true crime garage doc. Click on the donate pay right laid in german boys and girls gather around grab a chair, gravel beer. Let's talk true, cried with the approaching holiday, comes gifts, gifts handed out of work,
passed from hand to hand sitting around a christmas tree, gifts wrapped with love and sent off, male to an old friend or distant family member. Who among us does not love Neatly wrapped package complete with decoration arriving at our homes and addressed to our name in december of ninety. Ninety six in ontario canada weighing brevet, received a gift. Unexpectedly, the package was neatly prepared, delivered his mail box and brought into his hold a letter, accompanied them each wayne opened the box with his family surrounding him, discovered a large duracell flashlight inside the box. Wayne took a look at it and tried the on switch, but nothing happened wayne son. Just in then try
Turning the flashlights on, but again nothing happened. Weighing grab flashlight from his son and walked over to the sofa in the family room and sat down. He try beyond which one more time and boom the flashlight exploded. Sprang the room with roofing nails shattering the window and knocking just and his mother to the floor just and got up and ran to the phone, and he called nine one one the plants, labour I'm killed weighing brevet right there in front of his family, who would
do something so cowardice to this man and his family was this the war. Of some type of assassin, a contract killer or simply someone. They hated this man so much so that they sent an improved, is exploding device through the canadian postal service to wanes home with the intent to kill. This is the truth extort a wing group that in the bombed that took his life way was born on January. Fourth, nineteen. Fifty four in ontario, canada. Now there's not a great amount of Detail that is known about his early life, but we do know wayne started working for these seven up.
Ongoing company when he was just eighteen. He became an expert in the mechanical side. the bottling industry fixing and instead calling machinery, conveyor belt and assembly line equipment. From their wayne moved on to surge packaging and machinery accompany located in act in ontario the company. sold installed and repaired equipment for bottling businesses and both canada, and the? U s so this is a very large company wayne worked there many years, but was no longer with surge when he was murdered now regard his personal life wayne diane when they were young, she was just fifteen he was nineteen diane's home life wasn, rate and ass. Diana puts it wayne gayle her out of a bad situation, so the tomb then together when Diane was sixteen and they got married the following year, then
it up having two kids Danielle and justin wayne's wife. Kids tell the story of a man who was a great father. He loved his kids in diane and weighing seem to embrace a secluded lifestyle. Diane says they have a few friends and the rest of the people in their lives were business acquaintances. Answers wayne was controlling and domineering, but she law, TIM very much, the two were team, but wayne while during father on the home front, he was abrasive in confrontational. At times when it came to business, Diane said quote: wayne was mouthy and cocky. End quote detective Paul Johnson says wayne was the kind of person who told people what he thought and he had altercations with several people. Wayne was also a man's man. He wrote a hardly and played poker. The few friends he did have were mostly hard drinking blue collar bodies that he met the bottling industry
Diane says wayne was away a lot for work and sometimes did not come home at night after drinking with the guys, and he was not the best husband he had affairs and Diane says they had fights, sometimes bad once he hadn't its. He had a tough her, but she loved him. He loved her and they were a family. Both wayne and diane where employees of search for quite a while, but ninety ninety three wayne had a falling out with in left the company so waning. And started up his own bottling equipment. Company, a secretary LISA from surge, came to work, them they name the company dns after diane and LISA. This was depending on who you talk to captain, there's mix, reviews on this company so most of the reviews on this seem like it was a fairly successful company. While I have found others, they state that the company,
had problems that they were never really making a whole bunch of money and we're having trouble staying afloat. But there is also a lot of rumours that he was taking jobs and taking payments for jobs and never completing them that he might have been conducting bad business right, let's say and ninety ninety six, the gravest, bought a one hundred and four or acre farm and moffat ontario at this time, dns wasn't doing very well. This property as a natural sprang large enough that they could use the spring as a source for a bottled water business with wanes expertise and access to bottling equipment in supplies. They decided make a go for they moved to the farm sometime around june of ninety six and apparently they loved it. They're wayne set up a shop in the barn and started bottling and selling water. Now, let's talk about the events of December twelve nineteen, ninety six
The farm is in Moffit. This area is about thirty five miles from toronto, but while toronto, a huge city Moffit, is quite The form had a long dirt driveway in a mail box at the end of this driveway for the families mail. Diane and wanes twenty one year old, son just and was home on the farm. That day his sister Danielle was not. She was out with a boyfriend just went out around mid day to get diesel fuel for one of the vehicles and on his out he stopped at the mailbox there. He found a package wrapped in white paper decorated with ribbon and addressed to Mr Wayne, brevet are our number one Moffit ontario, l o p one j, zero just put the package in his vehicle drove to town got gas and, where earned home when he returned his dad was in the barn
actually wayne join the rest of the family in the house. Around one p m, along with you, Diane. There was also wanes brother. I couldn't find the name of wanes brother standing in the kitchen wayne open the it's the first thing. He saw was an envelope that said merry christmas wayne, ruse the letter it was a business proposal inside the box, where crumpled up flyers from various advertisers place inside the box. This was uses patty padding after removing the papers wayne pulled out a large duracell flashlight. So this is a bulky flashlight with a handle on it. Yeah will post all these pictures on our instagram at true crime, garage dwayne, flicked on the power switch, but nothing happened so just and took the flashlight and tried the button as well, but the light did not come on. He tried to open up the battery compartment, but couldn't it seem like it was glued or
fasten shot wayne took the flashlight back moving into the failure room and sitting down on the sofa. He then tried the switch again in the room, exploded They called nine one one immediately after the explosion. You heard a portion of that call during our trailer the trauma and fear in diane's voices, palpable she's she screaming the flashlight was a cleverly disguise bomb. The interior of the flashlight was filled with explosives. There were sparked by the activation of the on switch pact around the explosives were a large number of roofing nails. The nails did exactly what they were intended to do they sprayed way. in the area around him the front of winesburg including his face, basically blew up blood sprayed. All over the walls, windows shattered, nails flu. Through the dry wall and into other rooms, even
and betting in the ceiling. Gay basically lost everything from face down to his thighs. I hate to paint this unfortunate picture, but you have picture for a second, the man sitting there on the sofa, the flashlight. Basically, in his lap, and he's looking down at the flashlight when this bomb goes off, so absorbed, almost all of the blast, morning two investigators. He died instantly. The talk about the investigation. Captain so when the police arrived, they found, family room covered in debris, broken furniture and glassware everywhere, His body was still lying on the couch now covered with a blanket and his family was in hysterics.
the ontario police, they closed off the scene and sent the family elsewhere for questioning detective Paul Johnson of the homicide unit was put in charge of the investigation processing. The scene took several days: police gathered, the names of business associates and colleagues of wanes and started looking through his business, banking travel and phone records and the package that was holding the bomb it was confirm that was delivered through the mail, but also the box was a wine box as well right, yeah, the male carrier. Her name is Joyce, said it her in her daughter and small grandson were in her male truck that day, helping with packages and deliveries on her rout. She remembered the package to wane because of a pretty ribbon. There was on this package. She also noted that the package fitted it fitting
actually into the mailbox. Joyce was still out on her rout when she heard the sirens, but she didn't discover what actually happened until the fall. Day when she arrived at the post office, which was now crawling with cops okay, so captain what kind of evidence can we collect? the packaging first, it had a large number of stamps on it amounting to extra postage. So it would here that someone wanted to make sure that this wouldn't get returned that they. But more than enough to guarantee that it would be delivered. Of course, you're not gonna want a package, that's a bomb to be returned to you. Well, and unfortunately, no dna was found on the stamps or the packaging, but also something with the packaging. The box that it held in, like us said, was wine. So you wander he's in the distribution business as there's somebody that distributes wine that would have access to this box to put the
bomb in well. This is a red and cream colored, cardboard box from a cheap brand red wine cabernet. The boxes. Sort of flowers, with a vase and red blooms on it. I believe there's some numbers that are scratched off the box to kind hide the identity of where the box came from or where this wine would come from. But I dont know about scratch off, but the you pc number or the bar code that would be the box, which could have likely told us where the wine was purchased or maybe even to whom it was sold. This was cut off again I had been removed from the box, so this perpetrator was was smart enough to take the effort to do this.
this would ultimately comb through the purchase history records of all of the liquor stores in the area close to the grievance farm, to try to determine who bought this wine. But they came up with nothing so where's. While this also makes it a lot more difficult to because senses mailed, you gotta figure out how far away This may help from right, and you know here's another thought here, though, to captain this box simply could have been from a recycling banner trash been rather than a purchase by making it even less traceable, if not traceable, you know not traceable at all. Why- I wonder if there's somethin, where, if you cut off farm, that you pc or whatever, if there was some, I collect your? U pcs and you get a free wine or whatever so like you said, could have been found in the trash were found in a recycling been, and it was the actual owner of the box that cut off the you pc and not some clever way to the skies. What
came from possible possible. I think it. I think it shows the thoroughness of the person that mailed the bomb they did find two hairs under the package. tape, but no root on them, and even after mitochondrial dna testing was conducted by the fbi, no dna profile was able to be put together. Investigators theorized the purpose deliberate. avoided linking the stamps and used excess number of stamps to ensure delivery and stamped it themselves to avoid taking the package to the post office, soap bring this into a mail box and then having
delivered by the postal service, so they can remain anonymous and the package was wrapped in inside out christmas paper, meaning that the decoration part was facing the box and not to the people open in the box. Yet so it's it's hunter green in color, but the white part of the paper is on the outside, of the package's what's visible and they address was typed. So now, on the inside of the box, we talked about the flyers that were crumpled up and used likely for padding is advertisements yet, so these are crumpled up in their pact around the flashlight. These came from a wide. Distribution area in southern ontario, but one one of these advertisements came from copeland lumber at seven The main street near by milton- and it was only
distributed locally avenues. Palm do ponder this for a minute. Is this a mistake? Is this a mistake by the person sending the bomb or we're dealing with people that do packaging and, and they do a lot of travelling? Was this deliberate like I can grab the ads from here I'll packaged the bomb, a mail from somewhere else? and that will throw them off could be so. The situation here, though, is if somebody just robbing them. You know if their grab a bunch of them. A big stack of these. This is this is the thought that the madrid
We then stack would be advertisements from all over the place and then we have this one in the batch there was only distributed in a very small location, so it would mean that this person had some kind of could have had some kind of connection to this nearby town of milton ripe. Oh I'm saying, as this is a business where people travel often so I'm saying as if you don't live in milton, but you travel there, I say every two weeks pick up: some adds. Why are there? What do you mean? This is a business where we travel. Often wayne is in the business where they write our victim are victim, is in the business of travelling. Often we don't know who sent as bomber or what business the killer is in right, but a frightened. But my point is that that, if you look at the suspects as far as business wise goes here
and the same business as wayne wanting I've wondered about, and I would wager or at least hope that they did look at this captain is dead. You know, checking cumberland lumber, checking that business to try it determine if the nails or even the flashlight were purchased their right, and we should note that wayne did work in the town of milton for many years at several companies, but I believe that is exactly where that large company surge is located as well. Write to me that, like I said I to me, it's its deliberate or it's a mistake, and my gut feeling thinks this is, stake. You me too, because we have one out of many. They were placed in that and only one the other thing I wonder to buy them will agree to agree well, but the other, the other part of that So too is. I would think that the individual, using this as padding likely my
I know about the distribution or circulation of these flyers. Yeah, that's a very good point. The flash of course was obliterated in the blast, but it was determined to be a grey plastic duracell floating lantern, about twenty three centre There is a long and fifteen ceta centimetres. They call a lantern. Doesn't look like a lantern to me. Just looks like a big flashlight. It was packed with plastic explode. It's a blasting cap and the nails are that we talked about so turning it into a powerful, concentrated bomb containing super frack This is an explosive used in the mining industry for breaking apart, rocks or or large rock. This is not a bond that would go off if you hit with a hammer or dropped it. It requires there's a trigger, which is why it was wired to the on switch police, determine the soup
frank, was readily available within the mining industry. It could have been purchased through a manufacturer or stolen from a gravel pit or any distributor, so I don't think they were able to track down the source of explosive. Now there is debate about the experience. Level needed to construct the bomb. Most investigators think that someone could have learned how to put this together from the internet or a magazine or a book right. So let's talk about the letter because inside along with the flashlight bomb, was this envelope and inside, was a letter on the awful was handwritten label of merry christmas and it's a typed letter inside an simple, eight and a half by eleven sheet of white paper yeah. How about you start by just reading it straight through okay? It says MR one
growth that dear sir, my partners and I are opening a new business sometime early in the new year called act and home products and would be very interested. In having you give us a price on rebuilding some equipment, you did some work for a company. I was with you years ago and, although you won't remember me, LISA and your delivery man, Joe most likely. Will we don't? on doing anything until after the new year, but would be most anxious to proceed at that time. We have no staff or office and place just yet, but you can reach us by mail at our new address below thanks for your time, and I look forward to hearing I'm you some time early in the new year, sincerely William J french act in homepage.
Acts are our number one unit number six act in ontario, l, seven g to an one p s. didn't realize you had moved, had some trouble finding you have a very merry christmas. In may never have to buy another flashlight. If you had the chance to be brought back to life hundreds of years in the future, would you take it wonderings, newest podcast, rose and head hosting ashen alina of the hit show morbid, tells the truth, We have lawrence pilgrim, a lifelong scientist who plan for death his entire life because for him, death wasn't the end. It was just the beginning.
Once this dream to be frozen and brought back to life in the future pulls us into a cryonics soap. Opera filled with dead pets, grenades, family feuds, hollis, baseball legends and frozen heads, lots of frozen heads, the story about the desire to avoid death, the links that people will go to, that a reality and what it means to be alive to begin with, listen the latest episodes of frozen head where after you find your favorite podcast. The orion were back, cheers mate. Now the letter that we just discussed it was left, tat after the blast. That's why we know what it said, and there were no fingerprints found on it. It was types on a smith, corona, electric
hi brighter, which, from what I've read, is a fairly common typewriter. It would not be easy, to identify this as its two common right, while this is also for home use an office but the font in the letters was significant yeah. The letter was typed in all camps and experts identified it as script. Ten slash, twelve fought. This is not an all business font, like you know, like tat, these new roman or something like less, is more like a personal yeah. So much like a hand, written font. Yes, the thought was created by inserting a daisy, we'll, essentially A round disk with letters, numbers and symbols on spokes into the typewriter experts were able to tell police that this easy wheel was sold under the model number five. Nine five for three police were optimistic about this day
we'll for two reasons, one according to statistics at the time only two percent of people who this kind of typewriter owned that particular type of daisy, we'll by two police, all that it contains what appear to be an imperfection in the periods in the letter? So each period is followed by a small slash, so a kind of like resembles a comma This flaw is likely specific to this single one daisy wheel. so if the writer of the letter use this daisy wheel in any other correspondence it, it should be able, be identified because it would have the same. Imperfection now hear hear some some tricky things: okay, so when he, by like this model of this method, corona wreck that you can buy extra,
the wheels so where it gets a little more complicated is. This could have been I mean there would have to have some knowledge of their electric typewriter, but let's say their original font was. You know times new roman right and they used that for everything, but for this one they used just that daisy wheel. Just for this letter, that's where it can be a little more complex as far as if they never typed in bayelsa letter using this daisy wheel, then yeah well yeah if they were smart enough to just use it this one time and then toss it, yeah cause when you go to buy these back in the day, you'd have the option like you'd, be like okay, I'll I'll take this Ola. You know electric typewriter and then the person go, but you can have all these different fonts and so people would by extra daisy wheels. I wonder if you could buy them at any time like if you don't have to
when you're making the purchase of the typewriter. I would think you could bite at any time, amish, I'm assuming you can and then just looking at the strait of statistics of sales in going ok well x, x, number people own type writer or x. Number of these typewriters have been sold in an x number of these daisy. Wheels have been sold throughout the years, Somebody essentially could have went somewhere and purchased it with cash and not with the actual typewriter and, like you said, using at once, If you were smart enough or sneak enough to use it only that one time and then toss it see I did this to me is- is the essence of a lot of these cases that we discuss? You have something here that you're like, only crap. That's it that's a bee everything! That's the thing we ve been looking for. This is what we can tie our rope to and where we can find out. Perpetrator and then at some point you go it just adjusting get us. There,
get getting everything or to be nothing yeah, I mean of, for example, its typed in all caps right, so long for well said hey. Well, do we know anybody that worked with wayne or are new wayne that just type this way that, through on all caps and that's, how they sent letters again? Was this something they did on this war was this machine, for whatever reason was the caps lock brook and they had to type this way. Re was: was this something that was deliberate or just a happenstance? Yes, so, police did they parts through all of wings correspondence, and they did ask every one in the area who conducted business with wayne or with
the bottling industry to examine their correspondence. To look for this abner out abnormality, but nothing came of this. Could the killer have been? You know smart enough to just use it once That's the thing that we will never be able to wrap our heads around until this cases solve now. The letter was signed using the name, william, J, french. Of course, there was no such person and act in products. The company name also did not exist. They address. Are our number one unit number six and act in also was not a business addressed. Actually was a postal code for a residence now don't know who live there, who lived at this address, but its very safe to say I'm. Assuming that the o p p a you know me, the police checked out the resident thoroughly
we just don't know whether the killer selected this address at risk, damn or if it holds again, if it means anything, doesn't hold any significance. And see. I wonder if the act in a home products was again like the first part of the letter. Right was that it up to. Let wayne know who this is coming from. You see, I mean oh yeah, like what were the clues, because at one point he they also said something about lisa and Joe Lee's at least Sabean wayne's. Basically secretarial and business lady and then Joe was a delivery. Guy they would know us, but you probably don't remember us. The Joe and LISA might remember me. Remember us yeah! I want,
that was like a hint at you, be having a hard time, placing whose sending you this letter, but that's because we gave you money. So LISA knows us and Joe knows us, but you never came to do the job. I wonder if that some some kind a clue there yet or is it a taunt writing? And what I mean by that is, is a couple things in it in here. It's such a petty thing to do, because, if you're intent is to. instantaneously blow this guy up, then than its it is the taught I dont understand because your your clothing, in that so and so might know me or know us but then your signing this with the fictitious name so immediately wayne, if he made it to the end of the letter, is going to go I don't know William J, french and we know he would know that because it's not a real person why he was
real person we have this, no clue. If of wayne knew of this guy, if you look up William J French, all it comes to- or I could find is a grave site that was buried. It use Bear- in toronto right and someone they passed away well before this incident right, so we we could us I mean way way before the bombing we could assume they doesn't know by. Is it like some kind of clue, because, if you're sending this bomb, it's almost like you sent this letter to get this message across to wane. So what in this letter would be a clue? way to go. Oh shit. I know who sent this and that's what I mean if it's a taunt, it's like a super is super. Petty is one by this, because of a couple reasons, if we reads this letter that you know, first of all, that the killer the person sending it
he's sending it with the intention that wayne will read it if you're at once. If he wants to talk to him before killing him, but then the thought than to is what kind of talk is this? If, if your thought, plan. Your hopes are that he reads it and then he flipped on the switch and boom the flashlight explodes. Then the talk is, is kind of lost. You know I mean it's almost like if you set out to taunt wayne before kill him. I guess are you hoping to that? You put just enough in this letter the somebody's name or face, is going to pop into his mind before he turns on the flashlights right you know, because the all shit I know this, who this letters from is not necessarily and oh shit moment, because you don't know that the Actually, it's a bomb, yet
You know I mean like, unless you have sums severely bad blood with this individual. Now, of course, we, No, that it's a bomb, so you would think there was some bad blood there, but sometimes bad blood is one sided yeah where it's like. I few you don't even know I hate to yet there are some interest things in the letter, though, because we have, we have a couple of things right, so it is addressed specifically to wait This is not. We know he is the intended target of the bomb. It's not just some random matt. You know. We also know that the The killer knew enough about wayne to know what kind of businesses in an that he had recently move and that he knew employees of wines right. And the police believe that then it's likely that the killer not someone who was close to wane at the time of his death, because whoever
the bomb didn't seem to know wanes new address now. The thought here is that this seems likely, because one thing that was uncovered was the two men were seen at the act in ontario branch of the post office about. Month earlier, one man went inside the post office and inquired about what wayne lived and oddly, the other man ass people outside of the post office. This is a small town, so it's not. I guess. Strange to ass strangers where someone lives, but in order to send something through male and canada. You need the exact postal code for the address and there are over eight hundred and fifty five thousand. Different postal code cannot yet well that's compared to the u s where
We have like forty. Two thousand ish zipcodes yeah wa again, it's like there's these like little things that make. You think that this is like a clue to him. For example, I had a hard time finding you rang because of the new address, and there was these reports that he was getting phone calls and and wayne was telling people a tom. I'm not here so again was this a situation where he promised to do a job, took payment for a job and he took off and went missing and and then that that and had a track him down to even figure out where you that yes, so so, the the vets moved from act in a way to the farm and mafia in june of ninety ninety six. This is nineteen kilometers away, so have to wonder there. They, the gravel, once lived in, acting and these two men were seen at the act in ontario branch. So did these two men
assume that wayne still lived in act in or Never knew his address and only knew that he lived in that town right. sketches were made of the two men, but they have not been able to identify them. So the sketches have led to really nothing I'm sure like we know with most cases a lot. when you have a sketch, thrown out there, that the police and of getting receive and receiving a lot of look alike, calls a I so and so, and you should talk to him well, housing connected to the gateway looks like the guy and then they look at the guy. They talk to him and find out. He has absolutely no connection to anything who how reliable these sketches are in the first place. You have to wonder because these are concerned, is it sketches made using eye witnesses who had an unremarkable com? precision or conversations with two people enquiring about an address a month before this happened right back to the letter.
the writer actually knew wanes business fairly. Well- and I say this because In the letter naming lisa and Joe so LISA urban was the secretary from from surge you'd argument her, but she was from the surge company and ultimately left the company and started de now with him and his wife, like us, even though I think the title was more secretary, I think she knew the books and knew the business very well. Oh yeah, the interesting thing Here, though, to captain his leases name is actually spell l e g s a so We don't know if the letter writer actually didn't know this, and what I mean by that, because in the letter it spelled l I ass a young man. or common way. I actually never seen the, namely spelled out he s a with our l e essay or is it l e e air, something weird
why I have her name is as technically being spilled. L e say in the letter it spells the more common thrilling of l. I essay Oh, that makes you wonder a couple things yea essay that you have that right. So what it doesn't make you wonder, It doesn't there's no way that somebody just has just connects that unless I know that, specifically about wayne or his company just randomly pick two names and they actually had something to do with one of his companies, and The crazy thing, though, is if had only heard that name out loud, so you know only heard that spoken, never seen it written, never seen it yeah yeah, and that's how I'm going to spell it. In my taunting letter that I'm sending along with my bomb right and then
thing but Joe there he was actually josie happy, zoonotic psychotic yeah, I think, he's technically the delivery, However, it sounds like he held several different roles with this company, but but mostly was a delivery man and he d go by JO. So again, you have to wonder, like is just a red herring designed to throw investigators onto the scent of a business, associates you know someone that would have heard these names allowed Joe LISA or is this somebody that was even tighter with wayne and She knew these people a little bit you how this does as planned. This for me and tragic help me. You help me right. Why send a letter at all? It's it's almost like the only point of sending the letter is to give Into wanes head. you know who sent this or
just send a letter to this has nothing to do with business. But you know Wayne enough or you can make it seem like all. While wayne would take money for jobs and not doom, and we we have a history of that. So if I make this seem like it's connected wanes business that they're not gonna. Look at me because this is a personal matter. So I through some old bombing case that were later solved and trying to add some psychology to even the package. And you know this letter of course, you know a lot of times when, when people work as you know, to a bomb there have most time it's almost an assumption by The creator of the bomb that the letter or the note will be destroyed in the blast that no one will ever have read that letter
other than the target right, but see here. I I'm kind of more with you, I think I think, with what you're saying here is it? Is it just a throw them off the scent idol? Oh, I don't know either, but I think that that might be the case in what I mean by that is that I see the actions being taken with the the packaging of this bomb. They indicate to me that they didn't whoever package this up. You know like the removal of the bar code, the zip code of the. U p c symbol that shows to me that they didn't intend for the packaging to blow up with the bomb or be destroyed in the blast that they took precautions, that they thought that the packaging would likely survive blast, though there were worried about this way. I mean it. Gonna carry that over to the letter as well like assuming
The letter would survive the blast right and then you'd. Think, though, with a gif most the time when you grab it may be you don't turn it on right away, I mean that's. That's the other thing too. It wasn't like this. The trigger, wasn't once you pull it out of the box, it blows up, it was you have to turn this on. So again he don't know this, but if he did was like, I know how a flashlight works. I don't need to test it, yet I mean right like so. He just puts it over to the side. So I, and that's the tough thing, because, yes, you'd, think most bombers would assume if I write a little notes on the package that blows up the notes gonna blow up too, but in this case it's late, because the trigger is turning it on. Who knows where that package is going to be once the the bombers away from that package? Well, and that's that
things any sense. Now I see what you're saying what based essentially what you're saying is this? Ok, if, if I'm killings, if I'm gonna go out and kill someone if I, if I'm looking at them through cross a field through the scope of a rifle. Yes Even if there are people around them, I can put them in the crosshairs and choose a fancy individual that I'm going to shoot at when you send a bomb flashlight bomb that is triggered through the action of the on switch the mail you are then huh being that your target is the one that flicks that switch in ignites the bomb yak as of em not wrong. I believe his son said that he tried to turn it on his son. try to turn it on, and we also noted that his wife and his brother in the room with him or in a nearby room when the when the flashlight exploded. So it's almost here, here's! What, I wonder is the letter itself, not a taunt,
is it? Is it in some way meant to throw them on the scent of somebody else? I don't know actually leaned toward the thought of this. If, on the killer unthinking, though the letter will survive the blast. The packaging survives the blast, but the purpose of my letter is to increase the likelihood that wayne is the one that flicks the switch and not some one. That is just an innocent bystanders, and I asked him what I mean by that he he says things that are familiar to wane too, to drop his guard, to let his guard down and go. I mean you can almost picture in your head. Where he's reading it's an unexpected package right we have heard rumours that people thought that we might have been paranoid about one thing or another. So what? If this letter accompanied this thing just for the sole purpose of increasing the likelihood that the target, the switch and you can picture in reading the letter and identify
recognising the names in it all you do business with me before picking The flashlight, with his other hand, it is like, in the switch Yeah yeah and that's also the length of the letter has a little bit longer than you know really needs to be. Is that so He's your reading with one hand and dismiss them with the now flashlight and then flips it on yeah anna and I think a lot this too, is the you know that He s didn't realize you had moved handsome Finding you, I don't know if you have a very Merry christmas, and may you never have to buy another flashlight there? That to me is that is the time kind of at land? Here, I don't know If there was any intention for this letter to make wayne picture somebody.
Or think of some one before he ended up being killed? I dont think that that was actually the purpose of this. Ok, a couple questions for you I'll start off with. Do you think the letter was to get his attention org I think it's a decoy, what your gut tania again, I really ought. Maybe it's not done anything. I ultimately think that it was. The sole purpose of the letter was to increase the chances that wayne would be the one to flick. The switch of the power switch to to ignite the bomb, causing it to explode, hoping that he would be by himself and end part of that is the psychology behind and who would have sent. This, the perpetrator that ok, so the police, believed that this individual would have held a deep seated grudge or deep seated hatred for way
right and then here's the other thought, though, to if they are correct. Now. This is not a one hundred percent etched in stone statement by the police, but they did they did say in an interview that look we actually We believe that, in its more like, the individual wasn't close to wane, in the months leading up to his death, because we think that there are actions made to lead us to believe that they believe that way installed. an active and didn't live at this farm and in mothah, so there thought is if they are right about this, the if this means that something happened, put between this individual and wayne months before before the actual death, because he moved almost six months before the bomb was sent to the house, so somebody had a against him and they were. patient enough
to sit on this grudge for at least months could have been years right so and then on but that police profile the center of the letter and that in stated that the person likely headed seated hatred for wayne, but also wasn't comfortable with confrontation, import preferred to retaliate from a distance. Now then goes along with just about most every other bomber case that we ve ever seen. That's the psychology behind these bombers. The thought is that on the spectrum on ways to attack and kill another individual, the sending of to some one. Actually through. The male is one of the most cowardice ways to to attack and kill them and what they mean by? That is just the the actual simplicity of its not up front and in a close in your face. This is not some once looking you in the eyes and choking you to death or
stabbing you to death or either Shooting you from a distance, so you're saying the cowardly lion is still suspect, What I'm saying is it this individuals, probably not comfortable with some kind of physical confrontation, with wayne or likely with anyone? Ok, so that the next question then would be. Do you think this is coming from male were female. Typically, if you're gonna play the numbers game, typically mail, or bombers where the narrow games males are murderers and and and shooters and mass explosions in terrorist. More southern females are right, but but I mean when you're talking about this specific type of attack That's typically a male more times and not its committed by a male where, like so on, this
spectrum of being a coward. Typically, you would see like with poisonings, that's often conducted by a female right and there's a little more These things are a little more sadistic in the sense that a lot of times with with poisoning a war usually comes from a woman that is close to the individual. what we find in the long run is they prefer to watch the individual suffer evil well, they preferred It- wants the individual suffer. Where think about the person mailing, the bomb, their whole intent is to kill their night there there they have no intention, they have no mention of watching the person suffer or watching the person die right because eight, they mail, the bob, that's the now. Is there right all of the time. One hundred percent- as I know you know like I like I- was taught
to somebody the other day and they were saying. Well, you know it's it's never this until it is this one time that it is this so but playing the numbers game. It would be a male who is coward, whose a coward that decided to mail and the other thing to that's. That's the wreck business of it. Is that, knowing that I'm going to send this thing that could explode and kill someone else, I'm not directing the bullet. I'm not steering the bullet. I'm sending this this. This murderous weapon, this murder item out and two out into the universe. Hope
in that it reaches my target right and we- and we also heard from his family, stating that wayne was gone- a lot traveling so that your most again like you are going back to your point, this kinds of popped up in my head with him traveling, so much that what if his wife opened the letter and then she It- was like our this- is not for me, brad, I'm not going to explore this package anymore break in We do have his name on the outside of the package. That's another preventative measure to hope that and the only one that opens up. Furthermore, the thing here too is as the police in it a greater stated that these are not explosive. This thing was not constructed in a manner that you could slamming against a table, hid it with a hammer toss it out a window and it will explode. It was constructed. This device was constructed in a manner that it has to be triggered by the on switch of the flashlight there,
for again really pinpointing your target. I mean have the male carrier. Her drove around with this thing for half a day, in her in her vehicle the along with her sauntered, or a grandson in the vehicle with her, and then we have wings son, just an who picks it up is actually the one the picked it up at the mailbox right. He puts it in his view. drives into town to get gas and then brings it back to the house. So you have. All these instances where it could have blown someone else up. The other thing that's crazy. Who is it remember? We have the remark of of, I believe her name was Joyce the m, the male carrier now so he says of the things that she remembered about the package. You specifically remembered this package for two reasons: one it was decorative. It has gonna bow or ribbon on the front of it to it, fit almost exactly in side the mailbox
I've I've read a lot of things where people have discussed the possibility of. Does this mean something again? Was this deliberate or was it just happenstance some something to the extent of saying well, would this individual have gone to the grave at home and figured out the The dimensions of their mailbox right, which is interesting to me on our first several different reasons, one like where lived in canada. Nor have I received a package while living in canada, but going for what we know here. It's not that complicated of a system if the packages and fit in the mailbox its waste in a location where the recipient will pick it up. You know at their doorstep, on their driveway, something right rain, so I don't
The necessarily any one had to go to the mailbox to know the dimensions of such what could be the suppose. They went to the post office and in question how big of a box can I ship and this certain situation just like when we ship march nice man? That's one thing that we have to figure out. What kind of box can we use for mug, but can we use for teacher? But back to that same thought? I also wonder I have not seen pictures of the grove et mailbox, but I mean here are: aren't most mailboxes generally about the same size. Jeff there's broke David says yeah, and then on top of that, though, the one thing that I think is is significant. Is the extra post too to ensure that this thing is absolutely delivered, and you said well, of course you don't want this. Those of device returning to you what now, no no in that that's that's of
three, you no reasonable thing to say, but at the same time we ve also gone through the construction of the bomb. It's not a bomb! That's that's highly unstable, and it's also not going to be returned to you? It's going to be returned to this address where these other people live right right or you know what I mean it's not returned to you. Gonna return to these innocent people that live at that that address. If that address that you attach to william J, french thanks everybody for chilling with us here in the garage today. If you want to check out our food archive, you can get that on the stick her and if you want to check out, are other show off the record. It's available at stick your premium and so much more to get too in this case,
tomorrow until then be good, be kind and don't let it.
Transcript generated on 2023-01-27.