Still metals tat, loves tools. That work is hard as he does so. This fathers date given get he'll love to use right now say fifty dollars on the steel essay. Fifty seven battery tremors, it said include If I say fifty seven battery tremor plus the eighty in battery and l wanna, one charger offer only two hundred and forty nine dollars and many mind since real steel. Fine, yours and steal dealers come one. Ninety nine undermine emma s authority off about through six eighteen, twenty three eh participating dealers while supplies last. in new orleans twenty twelve bearskin chair. I I drove to an address someone had given him that didn't exist ass. He stood in the park. Lot where the address should have been. He was shot and killed. I'm You d umbra, join me for the newest season of counter clock. As I die, the motive behind bruces murder a series of events that have never been fully investigated until now, binge all fourteen episodes of

or clock season five wherever you listen to pod I The

welcome to true crime garage wherever you are, whatever you are doing things for listening, I'm your hosts, nick and with me a guy that spent most of his early round fantasy football draft picks online men because he believes that game as one in the trenches is the captain. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It's gotta be seen it's good to see you and I hope everybody's team on fantasy or just regular tee. He is known as team captain on yahoo sport. So if you want to look him up, he boasts that he has the best punter in his leg. Caught fantasy football league, but if you are, I hope you guys want look out captain cause. Today we are drinking molotov cocktails. Heavy seventeen point: two percent alcohol captain wool.

Last time I drink seventeen point two percent alcove losing last time I drink this. I gave it four and a half out of five bottle caps according to my notes here, but but who now I pretty much drank myself, blind that I saw these notes or no good and its. But he's guess, we'll make sure if we have to want to stop the show halfway through more finish, it take a nap in and then start over yeah but molotov heavy. fantastic, clear. It's a triple ip, so deal with that in its made by the good good people deal with that of evil twin brewing and its brought to us by our good good friends, eva an orange virginia our saw some and that is short for superman's saw some. We are andrea in hazlitt, New jersey, jessica, from king of prussia, pennsylvania. Isn't that a crazy town city, king pressure, king approach, and we also

of catholic. Thank you can't leave in sera, madrid so to asia, andrea, jessica and catholic. Thank you very much and if you want to buy as we round and we'd like your dear, we do like the job. If you want a biased around for next week, show go to true crime, garage dot, com and click on the donor, but now did a little filming this week, so we want a big shot out to the production company. nick and gonzo things for helping us out and thanks for having a day with our ugly faces, are podcast faces and dates for visiting our beautiful city yeah I think we got him a little drunk and promise later to tear down the city like like king kong, but we we stopped at. We prevented it all right. We got case this week. So did not the garage. Everybody gather around grab a chair, gravel beer and, let's talk some true grass,

this is true crime garage and this the case of the west may so body. Pin who I am later Her name is worded. why the waste me the murders were eleven bodies were found.

the shocking, gruesome discovery of two thousand and nine. The remains of eleven women and a fetus buried on the west mesa. Many of the victims had ties to drugs and prostitution. This case will not stop until I actually saw a woman walking her dog found a bone which led to this mass grave in five years, I suspect, hasn't been charged in this case. Albuquerque police believe a serial killer is behind the murders. For all of these years, families of the women have been waiting for. Answers was grieving for their loved ones, Daniel Valdez his daughter, michelle, was one of the victims. I miss her it has returned to him. So this whole PAMELA gas, the way and went missing between two thousand and three and two thousand and five albuquerque police has attacked of working on the west mesa murders case. in january. Detective said they have many suspects, but they do

want to release any names, because it could compromise the investigation. I can't say that, we're close. I can't say that we're far, we are diligent working this investigation and until we actually do named someone there would be disputed premature for me to say we are close to actually solving this investigation. Police initially looked into a panther who had pictures of the missing women and a man who lived near by both of those men have died local private investigator receives a chilling message from a man who claims he is the west mason killer, It was mesa. Killer has never been identified or arrested, and, while the murderer may still be on the streets, when local private investigator says he continues to get messages from a man who has claimed that he killed all the women and the fetus and buried them the desert and invest It just received another call last week and agreed to play that for us today. HU. I am not

scholar. Let those words on the answering machine at the final notice investigative services group. Several days ago, he stated you who I am, and I said, bingo, doesn't which walker sr says. He immediately recognise the voice, says the same man cinnamon him email unless several messages last year, claiming to be the worst mesa killer. The time walker was investigating the appearance of mina who wrote a woman who please once thought might be a was mesa victim. She did not end up being one of the eleven women found in the desert, but to this day around remains missing. and so now he's trying to turn final notice, investigated Soucis group by telling us that he got

The two workers, as he has already contacted the police department and made them aware of the message it only takes one tip for us to solve this case. That's why alternating hamleys it'll take a hard look at the latest message, just like they did last year with email and phone calls. She says they exhausted every avenue with those messages and plan to do the same with the latest call from a man who claims to have an intimate knowledge of nina horizons. Disappearance why I bet by hm who I am later. Why? I This is true grand garage, and this is the case of the west mesa body. Pin

the west. Is a an elevated landmass, a high desert plateau lying west of the rio Grande stretching from the south of albuquerque and then up to the north and the state of new mexico. There are numerous subdivisions with new homes being built on the lower portion of the west mesa as the city of Albuquerque continues to expand further west further west on the mesa are mobile home communities and located to the south of interstate, Forty? There is also a county correctional facility and the there's a motor speedway there as well, and the union

national. Whether service operates a radar site on the west mesa near the double eagle airport on February. Second, two thousand and nine, a woman walking a dog. This was Christine Ross. She was walking her dog russia found a human bone on the west mesa of albuquerque in a metropolitan area, and she reported it to police. This is just off. of one eighteenth street and just north of Dennis chavez boulevard. So russia found a human femur bone and, as a result, police investigation a suit and the authorities discovered the remains of eleven women and a foetus buried. the area. This is obviously a horrific crime that has taken place. The local newspapers were calling it albuquerque crime of the century.

And stating that the city had not yet had to deal with the crimes of a serial killer before the women were between the ages of fifteen and thirty, two years old, most were hispanic and most were involved with drugs and prostitution. Now captain, when I first heard of this, I thought well, they finally discovered where David parker ray and his friends buried. All of those bodies, who was David, parker re. Some of our listeners made no him by his nickname the toy box killer. So why do they call the toy boss killer now, data parker re. He might be one of the few people with the word killer in their nickname, who has never actually been convicted of killing anyone David Parker re was arrested and convicted of kidnapping and torturing women. He got the name, the toy box killer because he was, and still is, suspected and being involved in the murder of as many as the people and the toilet. So I don't know for sure if he actually murdered Inga correct he's never been convicted of such the toy.

It was a mobile home that he had outfitted with various tortuous devices. He had also told a victim now this victim had escaped, and he had told this victim as well as some accomplices that he had. I that he would, four be caught for murder because they would never find the bodies that he had discarded as he had placed them together in a burial pit and then covered it covered it up. I think He said that he used like cement or used a roadway too, to hide the body pit davy a re lived about two hours driving distance from the west mesa site. Where eleven women's remains were found, but lie the remains discovered in two thousand and nine they were identified in. It was determined that all of the women had disappeared between two thousand and one and two thousand and five david parker ray

in fact already been apprehended. This was back in nineteen, ninety nine and he died in two thousand and two of a heart attack. So you know if he had any secrets and I'm sure that he did, he wrote those with it. I'm hoping the tick all my cigarettes with me, who, when I pass well, somebody out there holding onto a lotta secrets back to the crime scene, the west mesa Crime scene was called the largest crime scene in america. Police were looking for bones in a almost one hundred acre baron patch of desert. using large equipment and sifting by hand. This was like an archaeological dig. Basically, they work the land. Therefore, two and a half months to uncover everything- and I dont know exactly how they were able to determine this. I guess because they would have seen movement or or some kind of despair, june, or change to the land itself to the land mass itself, but according to what they are saying is

warning to satellite photos. They believe the last victim was buried in two thousand and five So there is some way that their aim to notice their able to have yet there Ain t, no use these satellites to look down upon us and view this year. It will go maps Yang and they don't see anything being jostled with since two thousand and five shortly after the victims were discovered now police have the task of identifying the victims? This would take a good amount of time. I believe it took about a year. Every one to be identified, some of the victims families. already leaving in setting up a memorial for their loved ones, as they believe that one, the young women found was their relative. This would happen the case of more than just one victim, and we quick

touched on some of the similarities of the victims, but they also believed that many of the victims had known each other and police interview, two hundred women that were working the streets at approximately the same times as many of the victims. This was in hopes to establish some victim timelines, when and where were they last seen and by who and in hopes to come up with some suspects as well which is kind of similar in the chilled coffee case. The vanishing women and most of those people knew each other, yeah. You start to see some similarities. In this case, it is mainly because of the victim pull the you will see some later larry's between this case, the vanishing women case we covered from chillicothe, yo heil and the long island serial killer case, so we have left and victims plus a foetus. Yet we have eleven victims in a feed us we had. First, we had monica

candor Ella and where I should warn people infamy, might be drinking there coffee on the way to work right. I just throw that stuff out there like by guy. I shouldn't be affected by it. I am sorry if that you off guard? I mean it, they know it's. A true crime show finally, I hope I didn't related top willy nilly follow there Alicia just said: camilo graphic ferment, a minute was twenty two years old and the sheriffs department investigating her disappearance heard from friends that she had been killed and buried on mesa. She was last seen in cept in the south west albuquerque area living and they say she was living a high risk lifestyle and she may have even had some gang ties. The next victim is Victoria chavez. She was twenty six and was reported missing by her mother after her mother had

seen her in at least a year. We also have Doreen Marquez. She was twice four. She was a mother of two and she was by all accounts. She was a very good mother, but her boyfriend ended up going to jail and it is believed that at this time she started using drugs. Her sister became like the helping hand, you know, got involved in the kids' lives and yeah, but a lot of these people These people, the sounds incense and a lot of people in general victims or even the killers, You can have one life and then, when it heads towards drugs, it can take it as a drastic turn, yeah. Well, sometimes things happen to people and they fall into their lifestyle, gets out of control. Yeah and it could be very some I've. I've had bodies that were great stand up people and then got ended drugs and then they they turn into a kind of

monsters well, and you will see that there are two monsters in this case into monsters in the story. He we have the the unidentified killer men we have drugs. I mean drugs put a lot of these people in a bad place right it's not they didn't deserve this, obviously but tat they they were. living a high risk lifestyle, like the detectives had said and dorians sister, you know this is what happened to dorothy and her sister got involved in started, helping with the kids and allowed Doreen to move in with her, not her sisters aim was julie, but an eventually Julie had to kick her sister out of her house, by giving her the option to come by for a shower or a meal or to see the kids at any time. You know, but you know how these things go Oh you try to help somebody out and if they can't change, sir times. You know drugs or most Only the lifestyle that they are living may start to creep into your home. India

and into Doreen sisters hall or sometimes you help out and then the helped us becomes enabling gases, then that julie had to kick her her out, and that was the last time that Julie would see her sister Doreen now. The worrying was actually seen after that, however, but there is some dispute as to who, had seen her last and where so. We won't comment on that further, but we also have Julie nato neat, I apologise if I say any of these names wrong, I'm terrible, I'm terrible with asia I should have got better before actually doing a show, but Julie was only four years old and she was reported fifty asset. Fifty episodes ago, you worked on Happy fiftieth care, I don't know. Is it thirty? I think so jolly was twenty four years old and she was reported to have been last seen by her mother in our father in august of two thousand and four

Veronica romero was twenty eight years old and was reported missing by her family on valentine's day in two thousand and four michelle, all as was only twenty two years old, and she was last seen in February two thousand and five and she was the mother to be. She was four months pregnant. She was the one carrying the fetus. It was fat, Jamie barrelled was fifteen years old ass, she was last seen with her cousin twenty three year old, evelyn, salazar and the two of them were heading to a park in April of two thousand and four now jamie, the fifteen year old. She had no arrest for prostitution or drugs evelyn When you three year old cousin, she did. She had a short history of this type of activity now. We should note, though, that the park is not terribly far from the burial site

and, as we had said, most of the victims were hispanic. Actually, I believe all but one selina Edwards. She was fifteen years old at the time of her death, She was thirteen years old when she had run away from lawton oklahoma, and she was the only african american and the only victim that was from out of the state she had. Never, her father and last seen her mother when she was about five years old. She running away from a foster home, it is believed she was known as what is what is known. A circuit girl, meaning that she had worked the interstate forty corridor as a prostitute, stir had said that she had seen Selina and she had last seen her in denver in the spring your early summer of two thousand and four at a motel in east. Colfax street when she anyone away surprise at this point she does I got no mad right, well, yeah she's making do with what she can run in the countryside. Basically,

and well probably with the help of others. You know full right and is it is also believed that she was travelling in a group and it He was associated with three their females investigators believed they. They really believe that, with this particular victim that her case and her background would be the one that would crackling. Because she was not from the area. And it's very young and she was a have a different background than some of the other victim yeah, but she's traveling, the country. Basically. So the fact that she she's going to be in that town right. That's why it should be a victim. So why would it make any sense that her background will crack the case? I think because they thought maybe the could trace this to somebody that may have known her from before. You know because she had that, because her background was different. Especially the location that that would provide different tips, but it also make

but in the end it also makes it harder to connect a suspect to both cities. If you were to do so, took to connect them both to denver and albuquerque. If you can and that is going give you quite of a lot of separation from that particular so, like any others that you may be looking at, and what makes you pick one city over the other city, someone she spend a little time in Columbus, she's which was last known to be in denver. Yeah That doesn't mean that she wasn't an albuquerque for in all, like lear, in all likelihood she she was most likely in Albuquerque Kirkhi yet I know that she should have landlord. I anybody that I wanted to know what I'm saying is their connecting in one of the towns and its wonder what makes them pick that one above her home town that she ran away from just because that's where you know being left last seen hooker some of the thought on that to captain might be. That may be. The pimp was involved.

You know that all these girls were living a similar lifestyle that maybe they had somebody where associated with that killed her and may have killed the others and if they could track down. Maybe somebody that was working in that business in in another state I know that they could that they had a a prior or an arrest for that they could link to the same time in a different city and then link to albuquerque as well and connect it with her plus it could bring in some other tips from these girls ass. She may have been associated with cinnamon elks. She was thirty two years old. She would often drop off of her families rate, or for long periods of time, but she would resurface sometimes saying that she was going to get clean and change her life and her habits. Cinnamon was last seen by her family in august of two thousand, and four cinnamon did not turn up to make contact with her family for her birthday in december of two thousand and four

and this is when they started to suspected something might be wrong. On december, fifteenth two thousand and four, a missing persons report was filed for cinnamon, Looks a while later a real name- I I think it might be A while later her mother Diane wilhelm. She received a phone call from a young woman named Virginia cloven virginia had oh diana that cinnamon and another woman named Michel had been murdered in February. thousand and nine as part of the west mesa mass grave site investigation, virginia cloven, twenty four. At the time of her death, she was found buried with the other victims in the west mesa and that included cinnamon elks. Third, to at the time of her death and Michel Valdez she was. The young woman was carrying the fetus that was found, cinnamon had fourteen convictions and

should we just start calling him baby, because I mean that's what man it was just called baby from now on, alright cinnamon and sin. It had fourteen convictions and she knew at least three of the other victims. She knew michelle Valdez victoria chavez and Julia nato. Let's touch upon this for a second here. We have in your cloven, so she's, the young lady, that called sentiments mother and was like are found in the mesa, but this is where it gets even a little bit. Weirder virginia virginia was last heard from in moon of two thousand and four, when she had called her parents. Sayings had a new boyfriend who had recently got out of prison and they were in love and they were going to get married. Parents, never ended up meeting this new boyfriend and they never heard from their daughter again. In fact, they were the ones that report her missing and this took place in october of two thousand and four

key emerging in that call, though, is apparent them. I kate new boyfriend. He just got a jail or prison. Do you ask then what was imprisoned for the we yeah? I mean it s your daughter, yet that's it. That's a first thing you want to find out was him and for other things too. Maybe what's his name? Does he have not? Yet you say it, and I get a name They don't seem to know anything about this boyfriend, as far as I can tell now, but the thing I wondered if she ever history with drugs to the history with drugs, so. in some fairness, amene. Sometimes, when somebody has a substance, abuse problem and each to be in their life. It's really hard to stay in their life and its to know what they're saying is true or false. In I'm saying so maybe in their defence that cheap

I started rambling and they're like well now that she's doing her thing again. Well, I want to point out a couple of things here that are that strange about these last two victims in what we know of them so The the one victim virginia cloven calls sentiments mother right and says there. cinnamon is dead and she is buried in the may. So with the arms she was murdered. Allow without a woman named Michel and pull he's an investigator say that cinnamon Elks knew at least three of the other victims. There he had known, Michel Valdez Victoria, shove. Ask and Julia Julie, NATO now but here's the thing she may have known this virginia cloven too if the virginia india's calling cinnamon mob and I think that's why they said that she knew at least three of them, but I think you might be able to go ahead and say that she knew for the new four

then she's more of your link, the name and then virginia cloven, clearly knows a couple of the girls as well, because she's saying that cinnamon stead and Michel's debt, She must have known cinnamon and Michel right. So now we're starting a piece, a bunch of these victims together here and what is one thing that we are hearing in virginia timeline well the in june. Two thousand and four she's got this new boyfriend who's out of prison and the parents and meeting the boy friend they never here from the daughter again she's reported missing in october two thousand and four. Now it wasn't it. Till december of that same year. The virginia called sentiments mother. So we have a couple months there where she she had already been reported missing and she's, calling the mother of one of the other victims, but less take on this. Just take a step back for. Second, let's take a quick beer break in new orleans. Twenty twelve bearskin chair I drove to an address some one had given him that didn't exist. Ass he stood in the park.

where the address should have been, he was shot and killed. I'm You d umbra, join me for the newest season of counter clock. As I die, The motive behind bruces murder a series of events that have never been fully investigated until now binge all fourteen episodes of one o'clock season: five, wherever you listen to podcasts, discount sire. We know your time as I get thirty percent shorter average wait time when you buy and book on. My did. You know discount tyrant ourselves why waste check out our current deals at discount, tired, icon, forced up and talk to dissociate. Today this I ask you to do with instant card. You can groceries and more delivered from over one thousand stores and seventy five thousand locations, so whether

a massive hall from a wholesale club, everyday essentials from your go to supermarket or specialty items from your favorite local grocer. You can get whatever you need delivered in as fast as an hour. You can even shop for pet supplies, electronics in sporting goods in just a few clicks visit into carter, how to get free delivery on your first, three orders offer valid for a limited time. Ten dollar minimum per order, additional terms apply, that beer is pretty strong. So let's get back to the case, yeah just a reminder that all of the victims were identified. You know it too did about one year after the remains were recovered to do so, but they did identify them, and it was also determine that all of the victims had been reported. missing, put sometimes you'll find in these cases one

victims, they won't have adapted to and in a lot of times, you'll find with this type of lifestyle that they are not reported missing. On December night, two thousand and ten albuquerque police released six photos of seven unidentified women, who may also be linked to the west may case. Some of the women appear to be unconscious and may share some of the same physical characteristics as the original eleven victims the following day police released an additional photograph of another woman. This woman was subsequently I d. five by family members, who reported that she had died of natural causes several years ago on December thirteen two thousand and tat lay on the sly information thrown out me. so we have seven people and the photos and then one of them is identified and, and she died of natural causes, get you had six photos

it showed seven identified, unidentified women and then the fall. day they release don't another photograph of indifferent woman, so technically eight women, raw and one of em. As identified by family members, who reported she had died of natural causes, so the women in these pictures are would be new women. Any of the eleven victims prior yeah, because this time they had already identified all of the victims, the eleven victims- and there were it- is implied that these are different women now one thing that they did say is equally total of, like eighteen victims victim station, while they shared similar characteristics and if you use in the the photo line up, let's say, of the eleven victims rights. There is certainly a type whoever's doing this. They clearly have a type. I mean these. The girls looked to me like it could be. If you didn't know him- and you didn't take it, he didn't have any names on that photo line of cousins or it could be thousands or yeah exactly and I don't know

They got these photos from, but again they had at the time before they discovered these bodies. They had about twenty missing persons cases going on in the area on December. Thirteen two thousand and ten police reported that two of the way- in the photos that had been. They had been identified as alive and they believed that they could have our information, but they needed to be located and police wouldn't say how or where they had obtained the photographs it's common in a lot of cases that are ongoing, as they don't want to put out too much information, because that could hurt them in trial. They may have just found them somewhere. Somebody could have presented these pictures to him. They could have had a suspect and found these amongst his belongings. as are in his house or or who knows up real quick, though my apologies to the good people of albuquerque. You know I've. I've been there before and I enjoyed mine

stay in the people that I met. I actually know a couple of people who have moved there from a high. Oh so my apologies, but I do have to bring up that. Like most cities, Albuquerque has its seedy or sides, and A population of someone would ever has the who's your sides, they only have allowed some about a half a million people, and yet they have a rate of violent crime. That is more than double that of the national average. Well, I mean they're star feisty people, while this right, your captain is usually when we talk about a serial killer, unidentified serial killer. This is usually the time in the show where we would discuss the suspect profile. Ah, in, like we said, an unresolved serial killer cases, we always like to give the f b. I profile of the killer, and that was our intention here, but I appeal

guys I checked all my usual sores you're, really apologize. Today. I checked the usual sources and I found nothing I didn't come across anything during my research either? But you know that's part of our job right yet mean that's. Why I'm apologizing, but not research part, but I mean there's levin victims, all female, except for the baby when it's eleven plus the baby, correct and so like. We said pretty much ten of them ten of the victims they all looked like. Possibly they could be related on some level there all similar ages, so he could assume we can start with the assumption that the

The killer is male yeah yeah, these all you could. It doesn't take a far stretched to believe that these are sexually based crimes. So the garage is not anything like that. One tv show what's at one show where that the criminal profiles they tell you like the the the race in the age of the person, and then he probably has a stutter and he might work at a gas station. He probably carries a pen and paper in his left that pocket yeah. We do we can't. We can't do that, you just it. No! No! I I think it's pretty easy, say it's a it's a male. Yet something to do with a sex crime yep and most of these, that most of the victims were in prostitution, drug issues. This is a barren stretch of land to so that means that this person either owns a vehicle or has access to vehicle, so he's he's or guessing older than sixteen easily

I am actually guessing higher and age polly, ten years to fifteen years, higher than the than average the average age of the victims, which would be properly about which they five year, they because they ranged in age from fifteen to thirty two right. So let us put it roughly in amendment twenty five, so he is about forty years old. two years old and server he's, probably somebody that has had the has frequented prostitutes before yes, possibly has awesome assault charges against prostitutes. Against prostitutes. Yet he has some kinds of some kind of involvement with prostitution, whether it be the he's a john, a customer, or he could be a pimp yeah. I wasn't thinking that way, but I mean that's conaway. Everybody else thinks I actually dont think it was a pimp.

And he probably has some kind of violent tendencies towards women right in all may do so that's our garage profile. I guess we're. Looking for a man in his forties. Add that has access to a vehicle forty than his top at that time, that has some kind of involvement with prostitution and that has may have shut on a history of violence towards women. So it if you really ink pen left coat pocket any as a study now erases last too. But if you really want to start looking at people in the area, maybe a pair of those last two, if you could cross reference in fine males of that age that have have a previous crime of violence against women in a previous crime involving prostitution, be a good place to start, but the great thing about our show- captain, you know that's our garage profile- is we are an interactive show and we try to have tried

very interactive and we have a very active audience. So if you find a profile of the west mesa serial killer, do us a favour copy it and take it to true crime, garage dot com and make it a blog oh so that we can read it every one else can read it as well will make a blog posts. They can't do that and after we posted can get some lister and captain and nick feedback on that profile. If you like one of those old school chat rooms right, except for we want all, have to be in the same room. At the same time police had their suspicions and they suspect that the bodies were all buried by the same person or persons and may be the work of a serial killer or serial killers has since become known and referred to as the west mesa bone collector a thought He's also believe that the murders may be closely linked to an annual state, fair, which attracts a large number of prostitutes in the area around four

Two men who initially attracted police attention in connection with the murders were fred reynolds and lorenzo Montoya Reynolds was a pimp who knew one of the missing women in reportedly had photos of missing prostitutes and he died of natural causes in january two thousand and nine- I don't a ton of information on reynolds, but what I did find was a report of one person. They could explain. the photos and reynolds possession. She had said that fred was a were covered heroin attic and had taken on a mission in life of helping drug addict, drat, drug addicts and especially drug addicted women, and he was hoping to locate one or some of the missing prostitutes too, to help them in august of two thousand and ten police search. So,

properties in joplin, Missouri associated with a local photographer and businessmen in connection with the mess west mesa cases, they confiscated tens, Thousands of photos from the man who reportedly used to he used to visit the state, fair and albuquerque Roy. or when is this guy's name abbot, he police were the photos are now. I really know what those photographs were of. I have some suspicions here. Ok, so we talked about fred reynolds who had passed away in january. Two thousand and nine is the guy can't. Would he was the do gooder that that the person came out and said well, he was trying to help people. That's why he had these photographs. But they come out with this statement there releasing photographs in december of two thousand and ten. This was

for he had passed, so they could have got those photographs from fred Reynolds or they could have got the photographs from this ron erwin that they supposedly confiscated. Tens of thousands of photographs because there and he would go to disarm state fair every year. Yet in date they confiscated these photographs and august of two thousand and ten and released some photographs in december of two thousand and ten. So we have some different sources where those photographs could have come from, but no, but it doesn't really say they never really come out and say. Yes, we got these from wrought runner when her. Yes, we got them. I'm afraid again, that's because it's open case- and I don't wanna- know shut off any leads in both of these guys are probably still considered suspects now again, police would not say what the photographs where they obtain these photographs. Or I am we don't know what these thousands of weird photographs were from the sky it what's wrong.

When's mother had in a statement said that he had used to visit the albuquerque area during the state fair and heat. He did that with the sole purpose of taking photos. But again you know, and he had stopped going at some point, and this would- right about the time that the murder stopped. So this through Elias illustrations, reared so maybe he is just as as part of his hobby as part of taken photos as that he would go down and take a bunch random, there's a maybe the police were trying to use those random pictures to connect some dots, yeah andy, I mean being still doesn't make a lot of sense, though now It does seem like these pictures would be of some weird nature yet, where ever they obtained some of these photos. You know I've, we ve seen em and some of the women like we had said there. They appear to be unconscious,

so it's it. I can't not like you're that, are they asleep? Are they dead? Yet? Did the police claim that they do? leave the way all the women to have been alive at the time of that the photograph was take, while the big sure. That's been in the news lately is that couple that older couple that oh deed, when their child in the car, that's kind of what these pictures look like of these women, doubt yeah yeah. That couple almost just appear to be passed out They they think they were meadow deem aren't and they looked at me, but anyways shortly this. This is another weird thing involving this run are character. You know the investigate, thought that they got everything they needed when they visited his home in his business and Joplin Missouri What is business was, I dont know what it was. I didn't find anything that stated what his business was by sea

He made some money, but the year and the year after in may, a tornado had ripped through the city and in uncovered a bunch of things that the joplin p he's found in they later called the albuquerque police department they had found. Suspicious items not necessarily connected to irwin, but they wanted to know if this could somehow be connected to the case in west mesa. The items that were found were bones, but the The chief of police said that they don't believe that they were related to the west mesa murders, and that is about as much permission you are going to get on those items from the chief of police and deceit or two thousand and ten convicted colorado serial killer. Scott Lee Kimball stated that he was being investigated for the west mesa murders, but

he had denied killing any of the women. This would be because one of the women had an arrest in colorado and scott Lee Kimball was an f b. I informant at the time that he was committing felonies and murder. They say what I heard designed as I just that's. That's really great, p. I want you to be a format and wire and inform it for that b. I you won't go round and commit more crime, yet he was a criminal they took under their wings, so to speak so that they could have him. I did identify other criminal elements for them and he basically no weapons. The hump was his he'll toto was, but he he really use their fbi informant as a way to bali people around him, including his his wife and his step daughter, I mean he just bullied. Everybody kindles connection to this case may lie in that of the fifteen year old girl that was found

they had the arrest and was last seen in the day, we're colorado area, so that might be the tie. Their the albuquerque police say that they can't rule him out entirely. They they can't rule that he was not in the area altogether. During the span of the disappearances I person, don't see it. I dont see the connection for Kimball more often than not the murdered people. You know he murdered for personal gain and to cover up other crimes that he was committing and this thing, as we had said, seems more like a like sex act like a second thing again are you gonna get, maybe the money

have on them at the time yet- and these are not people of means. Another suspect police were considering was Joseph bleak now believe, was dubbed the mid school rapist for his activities in the nineteen eighties police say he would often break into the homes of girls. It were like thirteen to fifteen years of age who lived near mckinley middle school and albuquerque, and he would rate them and one case there was a dna sample, but the rape test kit wasn't re run until two thousand and ten. Eventually, this linked bleed

to. The rape plea is also assess is also suspected by police of killing a prostitute. His dna sample was located on the inner waistband belt of the prostitute that was found dead on central avenue. This was a notorious street for prostitution in the eastern part of the city. In addition, a tree tag from a nursery was found in the area where the west mesa victims bodies were buried to a nursery that believe had once frequented now what he he was a landscape her and he made purchases and,

what they were able to determine is did the tag. They came the plant that was associated with this tack right. They could trace it back to the store that he often purchased a lot of his his items from now. This was a plant that was shipped in from California, so it was of some it had some uniqueness to it being that it was out of state they weren't able to recklessly link that to him. Specifically, they were only able to link it to a store that that he often visited yea again, with this case you're you're going gonna find like one link in it. We mean which is crazy when you think about having eleven victims, but but they were in the mess of forum or for quite some time and who knows what was? lost when their sifting through the sands to trial. cover all these boats. Let's get into Joseph play a little bit more right. Let's get a bigger picture of who he is.

More than twenty years ago, they were looking for this person that they dubbed the mid school rapists, and this was Malta. all this was a string of assaults against young women that occurred in the area of the mckinley. No school in the late eighties, they ended up charging Joseph raymond bleed, who was fifty three at the time that they charge him with at least one of them, rapes and they believe he is the man who preyed on all of the girls. Billy was also facing charges on keeping a young family member whom he is accused of assaulting her over a period of three years from the time she was thirteen till she was about sixteen. Those attacks occurred during two thousand and three through two thousand and six. Please learn

from a journal that the girl kept- and this is a good time to act- to bring this up. We're talking about this with joshua gemmen case, and I said that these monsters will breed monsters by attacking a younger, child sexually abusing a younger child. They become more likely to abuse others Now I didn't mean that everybody becomes that of course, understand that by having down a bit who's. In having that trauma, you doubt there are cases that people that warning of been abusers become abuse It does happen in sometimes at a high rate. Yes, and and all. I was saying by that, and I know that we had a couple people that were offended by the Anna again, when we're done the show we're talking in the garage drinking a couple beers we miss

One word and people try to jump down our throats. You know now. I just want to say I have had some friends close friends, mine that have been involved with they were abused, why their victims? Yes, and so when Evoke then email and start attacking you know they don't know what ours, story is are or what we mean spoke and they attack, and they they like. I owe them the this big apology, or something we we don't mean to miss speak sometimes happens. I I go on the record saying look. This is this: it is awful scenario anyways the young done

abusing and then having to go on to the next generation, but yeah. Sometimes we may speak. We do have an account by the victim from the mckinley middle school. She says that she was attacked as soon as she entered her home after walking home from school by a man wearing a tan ski masks and prescription glasses. He had a If an he covered her mouth and he ordered her to be quiet. He then forced her to the couch in the living room and she told me he's dead. The man punched her in the head any time that she had screamed after the assault. He forced her into the bathroom where he used a telephone call to secure the bathroom door, so she could not get out. She was later able to get out and get to a neighbours home and call for help. shortly after so blade didn't, always live in albuquerque. He moved there in nineteen, eighty, eight and therewith

almost an immediate increase in the number of rapes, specifically Maybe I'll move there to get away from wherever he was having the abuses four yet, and these were these were those middle school rapes and it was of specifically of young girls in the area surrounding the middle school in two thousand, and eight Joseph plea was arrested on suspicion of choking his wife. He was charged with kidnapping and aggravated battery against a household member causing great bodily harm, and he was held on a two hundred. Fifty thousand dollar cash only bond according to jail records per state law. Police dna was obtained during the booking process for this domestic violence charge and it was entered into the dna database, and this is when they were able to link him to that old right

that they had dna. Oh yeah, this guy's a complete animal and should be locked up forever yeah and he is considered one of the top suspects in this case now, police won't officially announce him, as one of the suspects doesn't seem like his ammo, though it were, but it is, ah, he would be of the age type. Access to a vehicle he lived in the area and sexual crimes was also known to visit prostitutes, and we have some more some more information that in any was suspected of killing that prostitute many years, and leaving her I said earlier that beer extra length, then plea, was also indicted.

And several on numerous accounts, including sexual criminal, sexual penetration and criminal sexual contact with a minor in connection with an alleged rape of a young relative. This is the the girl that had lived in the house. He was accused of abusing the girl until she was sixteen years old when she had started Turning to him tat, she was going to go to police now this girl document her. Yes, she documented all of the alleged abuse in a note book and left behind, she moved out of the state now this is where police die moves into the home a few weeks later, and she finds the notebook and she alerted her mother and the two, then they went to albuquerque police, so he was turned and by his own daughter, who found this job the only victim good for the victim and good for the daughter people to stand up against

stuff and remember the he's also suspected of having attacked the the wife. So we have a a good suspect here who is being charged with a lot of different crimes and he's facing a very if lengthy prison sentence, he still remains a suspect to this day and I believe they're still trying to connect him to this case to the west mesa case. They could end up finding something here they just haven't yet our next suspect is lorenzo montoya and in december of two thousand and six, he became a suspect. Now, Lorenzo Montoya he'd live less than two miles away from the burial site and in two thousand and six there, some people have reported that there may have been tire tracks that matched tyre tracks near his trailer to tire track scene at the sight, and in December two thousand and six montoni

strangled a teenager at his trailer, and then he ended up being shot to death by the boyfriend. So let me get this right. He's strangling a female, and the the boyfriend comes and shoot him dead, correct, strict in it basically able for him well, according to police this, how the incident unfolded. around two a m. In the morning montoya begin he began chatting with a woman with the last name hill. They began a conversation, a chat room and they agreed to me in person, during the meeting they arranged for hill to go to montoya mobile home in the four thousand block of blake south west to perform a damn for him on her way to the mobile home. She picked up her boyfriend with the last name Williams, the pair part, a short distance away, and the woman went inside

after waiting for about an hour or so Williams, he was armed, ok, any became concerned. Any went to check on hill he's outside the mobile home, he encountered montoya, who, who shows a gun and williams, he felt threatened and he fired at least one shot which killed montoya, while this goes from good for them to. That sounds suspicious because it sounds a little says. I take back my good for him and it was. The time it wasn't determined if Montoya had shot williams, Williams, went inside to check on his girlfriend where he found her bound with duct tape and strangled him. Maybe that's true. Maybe it's maybe it's as part of his story, yet there there is actually to theirs to account.

That's given by williams. Ok- and this is this: what is in their always two accounts? Will this what's? This is what makes it hard in hard to report on because You know, at the end of the day, a call, those J statements. We know at the end of the day that finally, the girl hill she's she's dead. I and we know montoya is dead, and then we have will the boy friend who saying that he shot montoya in self defence or shot him, because he thought something terrible happened, his girlfriend and now but remember. We complain for about the news in the media how quick, sometimes they are to come out with formation in sometimes is not always right. They just what they want to be. First, it back to take a swing at the thing this was a very early account that says that he went into the mobile. After shooting montoya and finds his girlfriend bound in debt,

there is a later account which is probably more accurate. We we see this often usually the later news paper and news stories are, are the it will have to go back to the way it was before where they wanted just jumped ship. You know that they would wait till I had more information like like that that that tell him the truth, as as a journalist used mean something yeah. And now you have so many news outlets that its and, if it's important to them and to be the first well that the later account captain tells a little bit of a different story. Gang that the Williams while he was waiting, he observed montoya pulling dragging a dead body to his rock and then Williams confronted montoya and when this this thing ensues in in On is shot now. He ends up being shot like it.

Lower body or his leg, and he eighty and he bled out and and the police said that they had found a they found hill's body next to the truck, and it looked like she had been bound at some point or tied up at some point. She had been strangled and that she was wrapped in a blanket I believe and that they found when they found montoya dead, that he had had a flashlight in his hand that they may not have been a gun but clearly he did. This is weird because he lives two miles from the burial. Sigh ass really weird he's me ragging a a girl's body that in the business, a dead body that he strangled to his truck. Annie, I mean he's. Going to go, dispose of that somewhere or we could assume to space of the evidence It is probably probably ask her when she got. There is a way with you and surely said no

so he re was even expect in the boyfriend to be out there and montoya he had had. This was not his first run in with prostitutes and Oh, you don't say: well, he he was known to have frequented prostitutes for years and he had also even picked up. He'd been picked up this on more than one occasion he was arrested when he was proposition in a undercover police officer. He was also arrested when police officers, who are kind of Watching the area they saw, him pick up a prostitute and they went to like a dark alley in his car and they came up on the car, and when they did, the two of them were in the back seat, he's on top of the woman and the woman later would say that that she was being raped by montoya and that he will. Strangling her until the police came up to the car. Now she

says not only was he strangling may, but he seemed to be really enjoying the act of doing so so police I have stopped her murder in progress, and why and I'm with you, you know now that that's one of the nice things about doing this show is we get. It talked about kind of touchy subjects, but when we're talking about which case was that where we had that little debate about legalizing prostitution was that chillicothe, yeah I was the chillicothe case, a vanishing women and look, and so my first thought is one if you eat it's a freak you do whatever you want with your body foot for the record. I said: decriminalize it Right right now, no right right! I agree with you now and after talking to a lot of listeners about it because they mandy they really gone on me about that. but it's not both need to see.

A lot of my viewpoints have been changed on things based on these conversations. Well in that's it that's a topic, A lot of people have a lot of different opinions on. There is actually I came across. I don't have it in my notes here, but I found in innovation that is in the area of albuquerque. Did there kind of doing a. I dont know that they are trying to legalise prostitution or, decriminalize it but they're kind of their therefrom that thought out there now, but one thing that they ve done in the in the meanwhile until this could be decriminalize is that they are doing like a checking system where they ve befriended some of the girls on the streets, and they have it in system they they can call, you know once every hour and check in, and they also have

girls watching other girls, where you know in the thing, is to here's the here's the worst part about. I mean yes, of course, sorry not the worse, because there are women being killed, but a big part of the problem is, if I'm out there on the street in something too what happens to me. Ok, just because I'm out there doing the thing that might be illegal me in this other person our agreeing upon something we ve made an agreement. That agreement was not for you to punch me, it was not for you to choke me or kick me are robbed me right you you're not allowed to do any of those things, and the problem is that these girls, because they are committing what I consider to be a very, very low level. Crime- is a victim of victimless crime or until somebody gets punch in the face kicker kicked her strangled was his only crime, because that's what the law states exactly, but because their third involved in this very low level crime they don't feel like they are able to go and report this day

but now this agency that started up in albuquerque one thing they're doing is on their checking system. If a guy gets rough with you and you have description of him or his vehicle or license plate number. They give it to that agency, and I don't know if their passing along that information or, if they're, just collecting it, but it will but when then crimes like that, happen at least they have a record of all this stuff, and so then mean this stuff shouldn't, At all, I mean that there should be victims like this. There should be some pit where the summit dumped eleven bodies and a baby that should happen, but when it does happen, we need to have a record of all these people. That might be a where, where we can link them more

as far as suspects go now- and I mean if you're, if someone were to say that someone like the death penalty as a deterrent to killing for people to murder other people, here's a here's, a a less harsh way and I'm not saying I'm for against the death penalty, but here's a less harsh way of deterring people from murdering one another's know. Don't hang no hang on a bear with me right. Here's a easier way to deter people from killing people. If if there is some log that says that this person was at this appointment at this time is very likely that if you are killed during that appointment or shortly before after they're gonna find the person that the ep It was with the correct rate. You know it if a cable man shows up to someone's house to install cable at a set time at a set location with a said customer, and he does not ever come back that we know who they are looking at the right moment,

and see what a prime suspect would look like yeah, and what we're talking about here is yes, there may have still been one victim. They may have ended up being too if there were a system like that in place, there would now have been eleven victims in the situation. They just would have never got to that number. They would have found the person or persons doing this well beforehand and spend put us yeah it yet so whether you believe it should be legal or illegal fact of matters. These are our humans and ass humans. We should look after And care for each other a little bit more than were doing so now, no real, quick back to those two main aspects that that we were talking about Joseph d n. You know we had said that. Not only was he convicted of being a rapist of of the middle school children, though as bleak yeah, and he also had that incident at his home with with his wife and his daughter, turning a man with the sexual assault on

The girl living in their home right this montoya character. He seemed to not only have his problems with prostitution and with the incident that took place in december of two thousand and six, where we end up with with the dead girl and hemmed in he's dead but there was also some speculation that he too, like Joseph Billy, had some issues inside his home at one point and that may oundle spousal abusers yeah within that he was picked up on some kind of domestic charge and the. they didn't release. What that charge was. I dont know that it actually ever went to court, but there is some speculation that he was of a similar nature to Joseph bully, where he was not only having problems outside of the who but he he was living in that mobile home because he was no longer able to live with his wife or girlfriend at the time who he was suspected of having troop mistreated.

She's my use of repeatedly beating her yeah. So he had lots of situations where we see a propensity towards violence towards women, and the other thing to here is specially with montoya. That's interesting. As you know, the police were very end in two thousand and six now keep in mind. They have not uncovered any of the victims, yet in the west, mesa right so and thousand and six after he is killed outside of his mobile home police were already starting to suspect that he may have been involved in some of They had some missing persons, cases in the area and some of these people were prostitutes, and these were girls that were miss listed as missing as early as two thousand and one they were already suspecting that he may have had some involvement with their disappearance or their demise and why they couldn't

in these women and that's very interesting, and I think, telling in ways that before being assessed before they even find any bodies he's already a suspect of potential cereal murder. Now quit questions you do you think that law enforcement once he passes away these shot and killed the death? Do you think they back off following more leads on him? Just because he's dead they know he's dead. No. I actually think that there is a two part or to this ok. So I think that when, when someone's dead, like that, I in that he's a strong suspect I think that they- probably they don't dip their toe into the water. I think they dive right into the water. They probably they probably try to find out as much as they can as fast as they can and if something does turn up. I think you're right. I think in the long run, that's when they back off because he's already dead bicker, because the story starts

the fade from from the news an because there's other cases and case files being piled up on their desk at this point too right right. So I think that I think that if they can't find, if they can't find a sense right away, that they probably stopped going down that road to the same scent, a scent sounds funny then, and if they can't find then through quick wrapping up the suspects, we have a lot now. Here's one thing I do want to point out: okay early in this investigation, they the police, had announced and they did not announce any names. They announced that they had five good suspects, okay and then about a year after or the investigation was going on. They said that they had it down to about a handful. Now I don't know if a handful means five or two or three or what, but it sounds like they had narrowed it down. A little handful is, is whenever than five rank is whatever you fit. In your hand,

the balkans on how big january I can carry six pack and each each hand, but so it sounds like they worked whittling it down a bit, then a couple years after the investigation was going one they and now said that they have twenty suspects. So now this suspect pool is growing rather than shrinking. We wanted to shrink you know, so we can. We can nail down a suspect here. This is probably just one guy. I don't see why it would be any more than one person and I don't think it was just happenstance that two people were burying people at the same time, unbeknownst to one another in the same area. That doesn't seem likely. So I think Think the suspects here captain I think we have Joseph bleed, whose whose convicted rapist who was known to a visit prostitution was known to was suspected of having killed a prostitute at one point in his lifetime and then we have-

Lorenzo montoya, who is again after his death, was suspected of killing a prostitute known to have visited. both of them had shown many signs of deviate, behaviour and violence towards women. I think these are both very good suspects I want a lot of times as a case becomes more popular, some aid, as all my friend knew so and so and he's a little weird said. There is a link, now he's a suspect and then like I said so as something because more here we get more and more suspects that prohibition in ever been suspects in the beginning. In the thing too, as you,

where there might be another good suspect. I dont like that that Kimball suspected the serial killer from colorado. I just don't see it fitting there, but one thing that we touched on earlier. That is kind of forgot about once we go through all these aspects is remembered. The boy friend of Virginia cloven, the one that did she had called her parents and said you know: I've fallen in love with this guy. He just recently got out a prince and we're going to get married and then she's never heard from again the parents never meet the guy, they don't know his name. now we had already established at Virginia cloven had known at least one or two of the other girls that were found in the same area. One of those girls that she knew new, two or three of the other girls that were found in the area. I so what? If she was dating the boy friend that shot and killed

at night renzo that thought had crossed my mind, some crazy shit right there. He was a younger dude. I think he was like eighteen at the time of of Lorenzo montoya his death. It doesn't mean that he could been dating her? I just didn't find it likely, but what I'm getting at here is. I think, if you find that boyfriend seeing the boyfriend was the killer. He could have been what I'm saying is, I think, if you find that boyfriend you you ve the killer is somehow because at your lead because his his girlfriend, we don't know his name. His girlfriend- knew at least two of the other victims that were found in the area and one of the victim. She knew knew at least three of the other victims that were found in the area that I mean that's a pool of four five victims

This did this person was probably associated with well. Let me throw a little wrench into all this decay. So, as I was diving down this rabbit hole. Ah, we come across a girl that went missing in canada called amber to Caro yep I'm gonna, pronounce it she's a twenty one year old female and around august tenth, her her and her friend and her son go check into a hotel and they stay till about the eighteenth. And then she hitches a ride into town and she and she just trying to get into town, and she makes a phone call. She received a phone call and they

able to get a recording of this. This phone call right and so there's this phone call of the you know, and this girl's never seen again after this this day. So that's weird enough, a case that we might dive into at some point. But how does it linked to west mason well. If, if we look into the trailer that that everybody heard he would hear this phone call, and so this private detective was getting calls and emails from some individual, and some armchair detective has heard this tape from amber's case and then heard these tapes that.

This p, I was getting and went. Wait a second, the sounds like the same person and it connects to west may so because the emails in the phone calls it. The private investigator was receiving at some point the either, but via phone or email. The unknown person had told the private investigator that he had killed. He was responsible for it, killed all of the women found in the west base year? The yes, so, basically on one part of the country in new mexico they're getting calls from this guy saying I did this crime and canada. We have this tape of this guy. That was the last. Known person the sea this amber alive. So to me I mean that's a big, pretty fast stretch of north america, and And what I'm saying is it's it's a kind of funny, but somebody said hey this tape and this tape sounds

mother, and so we have, we actually have foot it or have audio if one play that right now, yet in The reason why this unknown collar would have called this private investigator was because the private investigator was invictus. He was investigating a another crime of disappeared woman from the area that at one point she was suspected to be one of the possible victims in the west mesa. However, after they identified all a the girls. It was determined that she was still in fact just disappeared. She was still missing and she was not one of the victims. Now he calls he says he killed all the girls unless mesa and he also he's taunting this private, investigate saying that he knows what happened to this girl. Yeah name is nina, but he and though, I don't mean to laugh at eight or nine. Oh yeah he's a nine and this individual,

me sounds a little older, but sounds deftly intoxicated now, sometimes when we do these cases a lot of times, we will come across some things where it is some arm chair, detective stuff or somebody speculation out there that they ve thrown out there. We sometimes presented. We don't always a lot of times we dont presented because they use don't hold a lot of weight. This thing, though, we listened to thing over and over again it it sounds. It sounds like the this in person, I mean wow, it's a little grainy. Both both calls are a little little green, we're comparing a voicemail to a phone call and he's not actually the one on the phone call. You hear him in the background, but I mean that this footage is than our phone interview audio yeah for her. But it's it sounds like am I wrong, but the it kind of like a middle aged white trunk dude

not middle age. I mean I'm, I'm saying like forty five, fifty forty five, fifty maybe the older, but the thing here too, is this girl that went missing from edmonton. She went missing after these bodies were found. Writing so either this person could be a long haul trucker or he could be somebody that that drives a lot for for his job or it could be somebody that left the area after the bodies were found. Now can be a lot of things regardless, though it can't be either of the two suspects that we named by name Joseph blea, or of or montoya, because montoya would have been dead by the time this girl was last seen and blue was serving. He was already starting his jail sentence prison since this audio clip is from the private investigator subject this out

now I why they buy this audio clip it's from. amber cellphone. Yeah regarding now? Are you kidding me, I wanna go? Go daddy here, yeah. Well, we're not going in the city. Are we are your goals? What are the odds that we're going to fiftieth street it'll be a tree? Are you sure luke

Where are we going the train, the drier and calmer about hobbies, ooh ooh, ooh ooh? and this is, if you take the call from the p, I, the private investigator, an amber cell phone in you mix and match them the bomb the guy you scream Are you sure Where are we going to do it

one hundred and ninety nine know. Why buy. I mean that's interesting, to say the least. Right I mean it's, it's there's there's almost a match there, it's a little hard it's a little grainy, but you can almost say that there's a match their and it's not only just how the sound of the man's voice, but it's also kind of the way that he talk. The way, the slurs some yea slurs. Yet the words are slurred, so I mean there's something there I mean Yes, it's very odd, to say the least about something I found, and I thought was interested in figured I'll. Let you be the judge with your ears to me it sounds very Close yeah- and it's interesting that does some armchair detective came up with this in it, like, I said, I think it hold. Some wait here

and if I knew who came up with a love to give them credit, I have no clue who big ups. We would invite you into the garage for a for beer, a solid round. The sure that's right, but the other thing here to captain is you know. We pointed out a few suspects of our own. You know some that have been reported to the paper. We brought up the of the boy friend of the one victim in You brought up the the sound clip of the the the unidentified reimer the collar last seen with this with this missing girl, amber area and last the last newspaper article I could find on this on this case on the west mesa case was fairly.

Recently. It was up this year, I'm going to spell her name: real, quick. Okay, that's amber, I think it's too caro, but it's t e n t, u c c a r o. If anybody wants to youtube that and like I said we, I thought we brought up some good suspects. The newspapers have brought up good suspects. You had this thing here with the audio clip and so that that's for good suspects, in my opinion, right yeah and the last newspaper article I could come up with from the area. It was talking about the police department there and they see very happy to point out that we still have one full time detective investigating this case, and it seemed a little strange to me that I understand that there's other things going on in there is a lot that has happened since then, however, I dont know that brag that I only have one detective working this case right now, when I think there's a lot of good solid.

specks out there well, unlike you, talked about where there's other missing women and there's other people, other women being found, and people. Detectives and the media will are quick to say this is not part of the west mesa and I think that's too dismissive just because there there was this body pit with eleven victims and that doesn't mean that there was an other dumping grounds. So this case could actually be larger than just that actual and this is still very solvable. My opinion hell, who knows if they find this creep, that that was last seen with it with amber. I mean that, could that could be the that they or some lead on less say for some reason that these That's the guy on the p, I tape and the guy on the amber tape not connected there still, maybe he will slip up by contacting the wrong person different private eye?

or some new station and whether there can that are not the person. That's contacting the p. I he clearly wants to talk to somebody and if he did anything eventually he's going to he's probably going to get found, I mean how many times can he caller email somebody before they figure out

Yes, right again, thanks for listening thanks for the support, also any thoughts on this case, though be the blog post on our website. True crime grudged not come any thoughts on that leave that on the blog posts and another way to support the show is to go to our website and check out any of our recommended. Reading. This week we are recommending a monster by tom filled in its eye monster serial killers in their own chilling words. It features some killers we have featured on the show before including David Parker re that we discussed earlier in this episode, and it's all it's a book, that's compiled of their confessions of letters that they have written to people of things that they have said two investigators and maybe audio tapes and things that they have made before they were caught so very interesting, arresting

I monster serial killers in their own chilling words, go to true crime, garage dot, com and click on the amazon banner and pick it up. There goes a long way to support the show and for everything. True crime garage took out. True chrome garage dot com follows on facebook, twitter, instagram snapchat that true crime garage. Thank you captain and thank you for listening and until next week be good behind.