I dont use the flavors of popular back in a big way: we're talking pumpkin doughnuts, pumpkin methods, pumpkin munchkins, donut horse, oh boy, pumpkin, coffee, pumpkin, iced, coffee, pumpkin, frozen coffee, pumpkin lattes and the exciting new cinnamon sugar pumpkin signature latte, which has got sugar and spice and everything nice view its pumpkin, flavoured everything it Duncan America runs on Duncan. Oh Anne pumpkin cake, ipods to limited time, offer participation, Mayberry Kerrigan kick up used under licence. The house of roll journeys far and wide to bring you exceptional quality, kitchen and bath fixtures in all of this, you'll see the details of your own story: the story of a life well, crafted welcome to the House of Rome low. Yeah.

You are now listening to true murder, the most shocking killers in true crime, history and the authors that have written about him. Gacy Bundy Dahmer, the night Stalker Deasey came every week. Another fascinating offer talking about the most shocking, an infamous killer, who crime history through murder, with your host journalist, Ann Arbor Dan asking gave me this: is your home dad's asking for the programme to murder the more shocking killers and true crime, history and the opposite of written about them on December, twenty eight two thousand the city a village

healthy experience, the worst mass murder in its three hundred the House of Roll journeys far and wide to bring you exceptional quality, kitchen and bath fixtures in all of this, you'll see the details of your own story: the story of a life. Well, crafted welcome to the house of roll a gear history. Ten people, ten people were VIC. Leslie Gun down in a dilapidated crack house. In the mill Creek section of West Philly, the community was scared and outrage. City officials demanded a swift resolution within days and under an avalanche of pressure. The police obtained a confession. In the case was cracked four local young men were arrested and charged with seven counts of first degree, murder, attempted murder, robbery and related offenses. The district attorney's office vowed to seek the death penalty, for what appeared to be an open and shut case after fifteen months of preparation, when the trial was less than three months away. However, the case took a major turn in a completely different direction

The whole world was watching and waiting the prosecution team's next move. Equal verdicts, chronicles the investigation of the grisly slaying from the night of the murders. Until the conclusion of the case, the author interviewed suspects, lawyers, judges and reporters to get a first hand account of what really occur during the proceedings. Exclusive police, interrogations of the murderers, jailhouse, snitches and correction guards are recorded, which adds mistreater already petrifying Sega. Ultimately, more shocking than the murders was the most motive. Most of my life part made most of my life. I've felt violated everything. I love

it was taken away from me. My mom Grand Mother Father, my mother's boyfriend got killed right in front of me, so I did the same thing. I never did anything to anyone who didn't deserve it. Besides, most of the people in that house were just junkies and drug dealers anyway, to quote from Shahin Black convicted killer. The book that we're profiling this evening is called equal, vertex, the Lex ST murders, with my special guest journalist and author Canton M Jones, welcome to the program and thank you. Were granted to this interview Anton M Jones. Actual. Thank you so much for having me, then. Thank you very much for agree to be on. The programme will have a great interview up now

I'll. Tell our audience so just a little bit about why you felt compelled why you felt it that you needed to write this book equal vertex, the Lex ST murders. I thought compelled the write the book, because it a Philadelphia native it was, of course, is one of the worst mass murders in Philadelphia history, but because of the nature it touched me and if, for different reasons, growing up, I gotta know I was a kid and also in drugs who put myself in a better position than ran around to read out the wrong crowd at them. Ultimately know to some to some severe hardships, not nothing that severe. But my thought, as a journalist also from a journalist perspective, that it was something that was intriguing enough, that I wanted to know more information about right. Now. Tell us a little bit about this mill. Creek

area of Philadelphia described, set the tone for us tell us what this area is like, and the kind of people that populate this area of Philadelphia Locri, except in the Philadelphia. Many of the people who live here. We call it the bottom and the reason why? Because that area is always men, typically a really bad neighborhood It's always been known for a lot of crime lot of violent nature, so we always have a kind of her name. Connotation when you thought about the section. This is the light from the eighties denied he's in going forward out on the hell. It was in the 70s, but always had a reputation for being pretty bad neighborhood, and if you weren't from that area, you pretty much stayed out of the mill Creek area right now. Now we're talking about an area of

visible minorities, black people living in this area, people, that's a poor area as well, is predominantly black. Predominately black area is anywhere from low middle class, really poor areas. Is it one of these the blighted areas in Philadelphia, and it has been for a long time? It's not too much, like I said before, is a lot of he's always been known for a lot of crime in despair down here. So that's the reputation that has gotten it's kind of stuck with it. Unfortunately, for a long time now, the time frame that we are talking about now is tell us the year, an ironically we're doing In our view, it just a short in our not so far away from when the actual crime occurred. To tell us when this crime actually occurred and in what year it a crime occurred in December.

December 28th at two thousand. So actually, this year would be the 11th year anniversary of the actual massacre right right, yeah and we're just talking about the eight days before this actually happened. So we're in the same sort of Christmas time Christmas. We at Christmas holiday, really adding even more shock to the crime itself, now tell us what actually occurred. Tell us the information beforehand hand there was a little bit of a mix up, tell us a little bit about that when the police recall they actually weren't quite at the right address. Take us back to that day and what actually happened and how it was reported. Well, what happened was it was a report that went over that there were some some shooting on Lex, ST and from my understanding reports headed that they went to the wrong House initially

and then it when they actually did find the right house, which was eight hundred and six with they fell, was ten people gunned down inside of like a dilapidated crack house, as it were most of the people. I think six of am six or six dead on the scene, too, died on route in route to the hospital, never three survivors, so it was. It was pretty gruesome scene and, at the time, didn't have any. That is automatically assumed that it was a drug related crime and you know, was drugs and robbery that was pretty much. The early speculate, obviously early speculation of what had However, it was later learned, if is over something completely different, and on the ages of the victims in the house, where fifteen to sixty five. Well, you know it's pretty, you know six hundred and fifteen

fifty five and they were. You know nice. It was a on in her nephew were killed. My nephew actually was killed in the house. It was pretty gruesome, there's a really gruesome scene according to the reports, is so those over fifty two shots fired inside of a little room where the victims were made to lay down in a circle and before bulls were pumped into them and for all of us that have never been in this crack house. What was the features of this house? I mean exactly what you know. I mean I'm sure, We can imagine but tell us what really what was found in the house other than the dead bodies. But what was what did the house consist of? Why was it can a clock house and not just someone's home what it was based on the house's prematurely with pretty much a ban has been abandoned. His mother letter was on illegally everything elsewhere.

Normally people wouldn't be able to live in a type of condition. There was a lot of drug activity going on drug deal and and drug using there was in like working pipes, toys wasn't working, it was his really Philby really nasty house, both inhabited barely buyer drug dealers, legacy drug dealers and drive users, and it was known as what they call a hit house hit house means where people who smoke crack will come there by their crack and it hit the crack deer and then they belief, so it was in a normal house with normal people. Just you know regular house, but it was more of a crack house and it was on a block that pretty much most of the houses there were pretty much abandoned. Also so I wasn't looking. It was in a really nice area, but it was really really typical. Would you know that area was Liberia? Milk reflection is

right away. What will we mentioned in the little right up to the time? Your book that right away tat was extreme plan pressure to find the perpetrators of this crime. Now tell us why, in this poor section, a town where lots of times when people that will save for better lack of better term lead a sort of a risky lifestyle? Why was the public soul outraged over this crime itself? What was it about this crime that really seemed to resonate with the media and with the public, and why do you think it did well? There are several reasons. One is because it's never been that many people killed at one time in Philadelphia, history and, of course, filled.

He has been in the top ten murder cities for love for awhile, but has never been anything that bad and and one particular incident, and when you think about it, I've mentioned before mill. Creek is a small tight knit community. Now, even though you know it's kind of poor, but the people in that area, they go back decades together. Different generations, three or four generations- grew up together in that area. So it was a tight knit community and when you have up in other magnitude, crime they manage to shock is devastating noticed to the people who live there, their family members outside of there and also to the city. So when that happened, it just got a plethora of media attention and it just really shocked and it scared everyone in the city be cause, as you mentioned, that

They haven't had any suspects at the time and no idea what really happened. So you have some people who were responsible for killing. Almost ten people still loose on the so they gathered a lot of attention, not just local attention, but it got national attention as well right right. So what was the media's? the response, and how did they respond? What was their source take on this? The spin on this and you mention it? Did they they somebody had term this. The drug related murder. Who was that exactly? And why do you think they said that before they really had done much of an investigation or what led the better day at what led them to believe that? Well, the media basically go on what the reports from the investigators in the police tell them an there, I'm guessing that they assume that be cause. It was

the drug house, it was drug users there in those drug dealers there they just automatically assume that there was a drug related killing now nine times, outta ten, those type of killings that happened in those particular areas and with those type of people usually is a drug killing. So that was the first initial report that came out that it was a drug related, killing an immediate, just, federal and fed into that and went along with it based off the again all the reports from the investigators at the time right. Ok, now was it detective, Booker or pardon me. It was Captain James Brady that made

the drug related statement. How did he and his police force proceed with this case from that initial, a bit of information that they had? How do they proceed with this? You said there was an extreme amount of pressure on them to secure some perpetrators of this. How did they go about their next move? Well, the next move was that the Where did the streets calmed industries in that area given is given as much information as possible I'm bringing light lot interrogation from people in the neighborhood they had confidential informants is given information. They were just getting people off the street, so my so many different were coming in and they just pretty much fed into you know, try to follow, which leads were solid, which ones were again in this. So it was kind of strange with that with this case, because there were people who would tell other people the they had something to do with it when it really didn't there.

People who assume that was another person, it was just really chaotic, it was really chaotic and they had thousands of tips. They came in so really complicated the case as far as them getting their own facts. Together now there was like we said in the introduction here there was some arrests within a short period of time. How did the police come to make those arrests and based on what evidence and based on what? What events happened? That led them to believe that these were the purpose leaders and hence the arrest? Now that's a very, very, very good question, because within a few weeks, a young man by the name of Jamal Lewis, he was bored in an he somehow side the confession and he implicated three other cohorts and they were they were booked and charged with the murders how they obtain that confession. What method in tackies I have add

no idea and to try to get in and try to get an interview with the police department, love your police department and the investigators prove fruitless. In fact, I had in any view set out with one of the cat. Is in the 16th district of where the murders happened and with like the hour within an hour before I was supposed to meet with her she cancelled and the spokesman for the police department? They just didn't want to contribute anything to the story, so how the octane that confession, I have ABS no idea, because, as the later found out, there is more to it than him just come in and then say that he did it an implicate three other people now tell our audience about. He would area because the german Louis was it was incarcerated and he would bury, went to police and said that German Louis said this incident

tell us a little bit about Hey Woodbury in Jamal Lewis and how he would bury contributed to this yeah. Well, he Woodbury was very interesting character. Let me just say this: he was in the only person to come forward with information that was later found out to be questionable. If not fall, story force, always across the board. So with him. You know you came forward, and you know he said in a certain things about now Gmail, I guess stages. You must took that information and ran with it, but Edgewood on later on, as you find out later on, that the information was false. An you know when you look at certain persons like Mister Berry and other people who was involved in case there's a lot of uh I had other agendas. Most of them were convicts themselves. Those who may have been in jail trying to get deals for themselves,

so it was a. It was a really interesting time period for a lot of people. And those who were inside it was trying to get out. So they brought up a word. You say indifferent things just to whet the wet appetizer tickled years of investigators to help your cock held the own case. Now the there were three people who said it survive. I did police speak to the survivors, Bruce Carter, you all along, I can't recall the other survivor of police spoke to them, but tell us about what police. Found out or ascertain from speaking with Bruce Carter and with you that long walk away. They spoke when I spoke with the victims. There was really difficult because Yes, I understand what this situation was. You know they were in a crack house get high. So at that point you know

they're not in the right state of mind. It was a traumatizing incident in itself and then, on top of that, like I mentioned, they were getting high and two of the guys actually had mask on right. So you know so it was really difficult for them to identify who any of the gentle any of the men were, but obviously, after another interrogation and speaking within, particularly that long, she was able to give a road description of a gentleman and day assisted them and make out make an arrest by the Red Army to Bruce Bruce in the other system nicest together victim. Then we will be able to give too much information so from an investigator standpoint, it really well. They weren't really that helpful in terms of helping them find who the suspects were because they were traumatized and it happened so fast and plus their state of mind that they were in at the time

now you ve long was up particularly, they focused on and she made a number of statements, and you can tell us about the first statement and then she spoke to a psychiatrist, and then she spoke to the DA's office, and then it was a different statement but tell us the first before we do that, just basically what did Bruce Carter and event long agree to in terms of what actually open that evening, because with the survivors at least, we got some indication of what happened. Tell us about the card game and how they were forced to come downstairs. Tell us about what both of those witnesses basically agreed to and tell us what actually happened in that home in the house that evening, according to the two victims, right well event story as you mention it was she contradicted herself multiple times in her initial interview with detective walkings. She mentioned that she,

this is a room with Bob and Bruce and they were playing cards and drinking and smoking and neck you know you don't door was kept open by I'm a blackmail, and who was home, her nephew torone and he kicked in, and you know he robbed him and forced him downstairs and then next thing you know she said that her nephew gave him all the money he had. His pocket and another girl, he told another girl and another guy who was in the house and they all went downstairs. Enforcement downstairs in the floor and then you know her description of the guy was easily say within it was in? early twenty short, five thousand seven hundred and fifty eight brown skin with dreads or plats, and you know he had a silver gun. It was big and flat and she said she never hears the point. She said she never seen them before, but I'll never forget him now. What happened is when she spoke against a psychologist and investigate

added at again her story kind of change. You know- and you know that's where allotted to hurt- you heard witness as a witness came into question, because you know she was really unsure and you know Is she even mentioned on the on the switch out a documentary she mentioned in the interview that you told me that she was coke? She was being forced to make up stuff and forced with it give information that she really wasn't sure of right. Now there was an episode where she did. Why did why did they want her to visit a psychiatrist? How did she come to visit the psychiatrist they felt ass, though, that she may have suffered from post stress syndrome, and you know they wanted her to speak there to help her opera relax and help her to possibly be able to call the mind what happened, not helping.

The calm down, because again never you gotta kill, shows a lot going on so, hopefully it was, I guess they were hoping that you know with the psychologist, would be helper, be able to bring back to have be able to playback the events that happen and it's before no now. In the end after I guess three interviews, if I'm not correct the police, can you say you who knows how to how these can how these interrogations went? These interviews went if they coke's that they were given information if they were so who knows, but after subsequent speaking with subsequent, I'm speaking with her, what exactly did she say in the end, what did the police do as a result and who did they taken for questioning in the end of the end, habitable visa arrest? Well wish there were she positive positively identify a young man by the name of the cap for car yoke,

in which he was eventually charge? Booked in charge tomorrow- is along with Hezekiah Thomas and with Chiaja apparent with the murders and, worse than part about with her. She identifies a kind you wish. She said, as I mentioned previously, that she says she never saw these guys before she never every sort of guy, but she actually later found out that she knows him, since he was a baby. As she knows, his mother- and he grew up together So you know it was. It was something that you know is I'm going through these documents and these files in these reports it was really really something much more than that was much more than what I expected. It was so complex, it was so contradictions in as a lot of quite was a lot of question marks. A lot of question marks now hunted. Hezekiah, Thomas and and no how'd. Your mail Louis got in

than when we now know how suckin suckin Duke got involved as well, but the how did it? How did the death this gentleman and the two gentlemen that I mentioned beyond a nuke and Louis. How did they get implicated in this? Accordingly, we welcome the report. Is that GMO Louis implicated, those two as well? They were friends, men for a poor, like I said, acquainted report, the implicated them as well. And in his confession, what we did he state was his the motive behind this, this murder, in a whip and others the motive in there. It was really unclear them very unclear he said you know when he at least in this confession, when throughout the interrogation process the sessions that he had. First of all, he said he was very scared. He mentioned that.

There he was high on drugs, marijuana and xanax pills, so a lot of it that he didn't remember. He didn't remember seeing a lot of those things, but one thing was very clear

is that he was really upset afterwards, particularly Becaus. The gentleman one of the guys that died in the house. George Porter was a very close friend of his a very close friend Anne for him being accused of killing his best friend a very good friend of his. It was really hurtful to him right right now. What was the public's reaction? It was interesting when you talked about Sacco and you later he talked about the experience of his family. Maybe you can tell us a little bit just for example, because that was probably the best example of the result of this. The repercussions of this he gets arrested, he's accused of killing shooting set of ten people and killing seven people yeah killing. Seventy

what was the the UK's families like, and what would they experience as result of their of one of their family members being arrested for these murders? I, when I interviewed his mother, she said it was. It was an absolute terrible time. You know that, even though sir saying that arise in other guys got arrested. They were subjected to death threats daily As you know, we now believe were daily death threats. People would throw things at our house will still be able to live in the area. People harass, harasser, son or others are younger son. We went to school, delegate nasty letters, you know when she went to work. You know this,

It was all in the news so picking our co workers. Looking at her, you know she lost her job. She lost friends. She said it was at the worst time in her life that one can imagine. What did the district attorney's office have to say about this and who did they in trust to do the prosecution and we're talking about a death penalty case here and again, a case that is this really inflamed the public, and that means that the district attorney it's for all kinds of reasons, once swift resolution and a maximum penalty for this kind of crime, who did they in trust and what was their reaction to these arrests? Well answer the question they entrusted the head. District attorney was my lady Lena Abraham. She assigned to their keys,

woman by the name of Roger King and Roger King, is known as the Hank Aaron Babe Ruth of homicide cases. He prosecuted more death penalty cases than anyone in the history of Pennsylvania and put more it was on death row and was they may be arrest the head? There press press conferences and they assured the public that had the right people in jail and they were very happy that justice is going to be served. An there was accept enough in less than a death penalty. Nothing less than the death penalty is nothing less than a death penalty case by all stress, no stretch of imagination, no plea, deals, know anything and they were going to vigorously prosecute these guys and make sure they did never hit the streets again and hopefully die. The right thing was very adamant about that. He was very confident his case and you know he projected that through the media and

many people in Philadelphia, especially initially felt comfortable with, and they were happy that these men were off the streets now they they also where they were hedging their bets on their star. Witness was you that long? Yes, they were. Yes, they were and the problem is, would they have with the vet and what the defense actually learned through discovery is their stories were totally contradictory and I thought, what's the other. Did you notice the lawyers guide, her gotta discovery in her statement? I think one there when they knew that they made need a little bit more to hang their case on, because it was just totally contradictory of a lot of his statements that she made right. So it satisfied the public momentarily. But, as you speak about in your book there,

was other information, whether it was erroneous or not. There was other information coming despite having the arrests of these four men, so tell us what and especially the shining black. You know speaking with shining black was very, very interesting, so tell us about how they came to speak, to Cheyenne Black, an exactly what was said and what was their reaction. So he black is it was a guy young guy who was arrested for another latest shooting in that area- and it just so happened is the gun bullets that they took, that they found from the shooting that he did actually match the bullets that were found in the home of luxury. So while he was in custody, they transported him the homicide. When it took him down a homicide, the ass, they told him about their findings, the bullet in software

and what he did was when he asked about that. Why would his bulls be found in you know in the household leg ST he broke down and said that he was the actual killer, an he implicated. Three separate cohorts that were with him, and these detectors We just talk to him for a while, and they came to the conclusion that he was increased, crazy publicity seeker and release them. Now that it has not only confess was witty, confess twice was another time he went there. They brought him back, ran a view that he confessed again now. One thing about with Shahim is the difference between. Him and Jamal Lewis is that chinese confession was much more detail and more detailed than Jamal Lewis was right. There was much more detailed and but the funny part about it was very similar. It was very similar, but it

more detail, but again they let him go twice and where they didn't do was initially that information about it is his confession was kept and sacred away from the diversity until was forced, they were forced to publish their was published by a reporter, and that's when it gonna came the light now be before we get to Missus Conroy in her good journalistic worked. It led to love some really good things happening in this case and a journalist really doing seeking out the truth. Why you ve put in your book what was missing

the crazy talk, the shining black. Did you not to give credit to the police somewhat? Is that shining black did say some kind of crazy start which would return crazy? What exactly did he say after he had confessed? It sort of seem to be what would they term psychotic were crazy? Why would they what? What exactly did he said it? Did they earned him that there was an? I don't think it was just so much what he said, but it was his behavior in that interrogation. What it is incidents when I came back, they left the room briefly and left the room. Cuba was on the floor, spitting up and vomiting, and you know he was saying That's where she was saying that he wanted just die. They just give him a death penalty, just kill him, get it over with and so on and so forth. So it was that and then the fact he scrawled on the floor yeah they looked at him and said: ok, this guys crazy. You know he's nuts, but when you look at the

His confession: he merchant things that were already only proposes that with no net were a either the people who were in the house and the police, the part of the police, the United investigators or actual killers, with the axe identify like the jacket color of the jacket, the guy who opened the door you know that something that Jamal Lewis information that he didn't have, so it was so much information that he actually had, but you know they just again dismissed it as crazy publicity seeker. But you know what, when you look at, that it was pretty much like ok, you know we have the Public satisfied you know, and we want to move forward who and what we have, and that was it Neither are we investigate at this because I don't you know. I can't say why personally I am. I am. I have my money.

Works on white, but I won't share that. But they said you know we're going to prosecute the guys that we have to move forward who have and that's pretty much with the redeem and that's what they were. That's what they did. No tell us about Patricia, Conroy and and her role in in this. If anything about, especially regarding Cheyenne Black, you talk about how that the information of the confession, the shining black adventure, the police, were suppressed for our was not given, as this part of discovery to defence attorney, which of course they would have asked for you, no mistrial. That was there that there's our clients, let out immediately, which is what exactly happened lil bit later, but tell us what happened in between that first confession, and then him and then the police, saying all this guy's, just a crazy guy

missing. It add, Patricia Conroy and shining black, it won't Teresa Conroy. She was the I'm a reporter with the Daily NEWS, Philadelphia Daily NEWS and what she did was when she saw report. Mr, like many reporters, she actually develop like relation close relations with some of your family with Veronica Kai is one of the victims, mothers and what happened was she was getting from various sources. Information about the case that was not being revealed to the defense, or that was really we have put our body in the other media outlets and which had been why she actually got a wholesome conaway of Sir he's confession and she published in a newspaper and they sent shock waves throughout the whole city, especially within the prosecutor's office.

And with it the feds, because there was something up until she publish their no idea that this information existence even exists. So she was very gutsy in that call. But even so, even when that information came out, they still did not police say they were re, examine the case. They assured the public that they had the right people in place and at the information, that's being publishes erroneous now we're talking about fifteen months into this case. These guys are in custody and then there is a development that happens that prompts which I thought was very very unusual. The district attorneys offices look for the death penalty is offering for guys that look like they have an open and shut case, bail.

For the best that you let out on bail, which is very unusual, completely tell us what happened at the fifteen month point an why well the prosecutors can you know they were asking. We continue to seek a thing was maybe two and Judge Smith. A grand and two of em and judge made up his mind. Ok! Well now he refused to grant them another continuance. He said well, this case needs to be tried today or let these guys go so as a last ditch effort, the prosecutor as to give them built five hundred thousand dollars bill each which, by all means new that, even if there was granted by the judge, they wouldn't be able to reach five hundred thousand dollars each for bill. So that was almost a last ditch effort to keep them in prayer.

We ve had our collar Anton Jones is just dropped out for some reason. We ve lost a connection. Hopefully he can call back in our even listening to the programme. Equal verdicts, the Lex Street murders through murder, with Anton M Jones. We were just in made conversation and blood. Talk has indicated to me. The collar Anton Jones has dropped the call so we're going to hope that he reconnects for those people listening. I apologize for this technical error. This is a new one. Normally have some much simpler technical problems like. People don't have the right time to call in.

As I mentioned, you were listening to Anton M Jones speaking about equal verdicts to Lex ST murders, the worst mass murder in Philadelphia history, and it looks like Anton's back. So let's get him back on yeah dad, I'm sorry. We got

connected with no problem. Okay, so what will release we were speaking about the different model and end the bail powers. Continue in your thought about why exactly what development led to the opera bail and what happened as a result afterwards, what will happen in prosecuting office with them? They could their wares go for continue, as is often the case to Diana was maybe twice at that point, and then he has requested. A third can t wait. A J Smith deny their continue its request to open their united case due to get ready to start open, prepare open arguments

this day or else going to let these guys go. So, as a last ditch effort, King requested that the defendants get a five hundred thousand dollars bill each, which would have meant that they would have stayed in prison, but there's no way they would have fine with that kind of money to get out of jail. So that's what they were doing there, something that was very, extremely unusual and never heard of before, at least in pensive. Here I've never heard of anyone getting bail on first degree, murder charges, let alone seven first degree, murder charges. So that's what they were doing. It was a ploy by the prosecutor's office to delay the trial again now, how did Patricia Conroy, because she's of integrity, player and end is a sort of wagon, a dog with this one? What exactly? How did she report? This said the Philadelphia Daily NEWS? What what was there to take on

this and how do they proceed in their stories? What Teresa Teresa was very instrumental in the case because Teresa she had so many Seattle, OTA cuts she publish again. Like I mentioned she was getting information from different sources from various sources, reliable information about the case and when she did, she would publish it now. Obviously, the district attorneys office that investigators they weren't really happy with her. They were happy at all with their but objective was to make sure justice was being served in any information that she had pretended to the case. That was incredible. She and there isn't anything that came out that she didn't go. She probably didn't was improve, was was proved not to be credible and what it did was it just. It really help those four guys that were on death row, because without heard her story and her

touch. The publisher stories only number. I have no idea. What would happen to him is a strong possibility. Those boys would it still be on death row right now is not dead. All right and was interesting to us is the the how steadfast sack on Mewks Mother was through this whole thing. Just me, painting that her son was innocent innocent, despite all the public pressure sure and what some people might might think she stood by her son. Did she yeah she stood by our son from Dave when we interviewed her and she was very clear and where her son was doing the time of the murders and she said that wouldn't hurt a fly, and you know what

I did some time you know. Besides interview, the other people with different in different crimes is different pieces that I've done and sometimes a lot of times. The appearance are in denial about their children, but when I spoke to her, it was something her sincerity, an how much he her sincerity really struck me because you know she was very adamant that Sakina had nothing to do with the and when she was able to account for his whereabouts, always it was really. It was I opening it was what I opened and with one or two other things there was boy to my teacher Palmer was that during times of the murder, her son was washing clothes at the large you met, there was a video camera. There was video of what is often behaviour, which was never obviously

never given to the defense or was never even bought out. So it was so much so many other things underlying issues with this case that was really damaged, and I'm just really happy that these for kids actually got you know got justice served even though a delayed it was, it was denied yeah, that's. What I thought was interesting is that you did include that, but it wasn't really didn't become such a big issue, where it absolutely sure of, is that, despite this credible woman said, then here's the alibi for my son and provided this seemingly good alibi. That was never investing later taken seriously. I thought that was another just part of the travesty itself. Normally you know the alibis have to be cracked, and it wasn't done in this case now. What was the reaction from the four four arrested individuals once they realized

that they were being offered bail and they had did have an advocate in Theresa Conroy and then they must have been getting some information from their defense lawyers that it looked like they might be released. Tell us a little bit just just before they were released. What exactly their reaction was? Their reaction was there was some optimism. You know it was cautious optimism. There were cautiously optimistic about their situation and this happened as the case was moving forward. The optimism grew, you know with the reports were coming out from Teresa and the They were here in an all the different things. They actually felt a lot better about their occasion. Air situation and here's something to think about is that these guys had no idea why they were in general. They knew they actually had nothing to do with it, and then you know the question was why

Gmail mentioned in three, so they said in prison in isolation away from each other for a for a period of time, not having no idea of why they were in jail and why they were being accused. They know they were innocent. So the more information that came out- the more optimistically worry about their case, but at the same time there is so much time it went by that there were filters. They were being railroaded that they still had to have that bit of pessimism, because they still want unsure exactly what will happen. So they had no contact with Jamal Lewis in prison whatsoever to be able to ask him the question: hey man, why did you implicate us in this thing. Well, they did have contact with him. It was after months of being separated and when he mentioned to them, when they eat they finally did meet him and see him in prison. He said that he didn't say anything. He said he don't know why he did it. He said that the confession was course.

You know he didn't say those things and days, don't know why have been arrested, They're, like a merchant George George Porter, who was killed out, was his best friend. The other thing was to serve from again from second you, because you interviewed seems, like you had a little bit more time interviewing him it right that what was his treatment while he was in prison for that eighteen months, reserve is atrocious. He added to absolutely Uptore missed freedom. Inmates were on threatened, him guys were mystery them, in fact, is there were kept in isolation so long and denied him like the basic requirements from prisoners that his mother, they actually his mother, actually contact the Pennsylvania prison society to make sure that he was able to take his phone calls and get his meals and things of that nature. So the whole time they were.

Imprisonment I mean it was. It was a really bad, very bad time for them, because one of the things was they had. They had a high profile case and present a lot of times. People try to make names for themselves after you know, by going after people with higher profile cases and then some of the victims that were in friends of family members are the victims, actually were imprisoned prison, so they actually had a bullseye on it. The whole time you were hear. Our time they were there, they were subject to all kinds of abuse, verbal and sometimes even physical, so Tat, it was a situation where is there? Rights were violated in terms by an officer Betancourt, we read has a guy's mail and there were reported back to LISA very well. We re which was confidential by it was. He said

it was a really horrible, horrendous situation for them. He said, there's something that they'll never forget. So what was it tell us about the event where they were actually event of finally released and there was some compensation given to them. So just tell us about what happened and when they were released and under what conditions yeah. Well, the the trial. The data opening arguments was supposed to begin the process in office elected not to go forward with the case, so they were released and the city paid them. One point: nine million dollars collectively, which came to approximate about four hundred and seventy five thousand dollars for the error, and they are prisonment. However, even though the unpaid leave, that was what I said, was a big city, and

even though they did pay the young man in for their false imprisonment. They never appalling guys and they never gave an explanation on. Why or anything of that nature. So it was kind of you know as we know it, they were out of jail yeah, they get some kind of compensation, but they still received almost a life sentence because there was an all party. So it's, though, on their records, is just that they were in charge. They were prosecuted for it every time they apply for a job made, the background search that still comes up when they record and the city refused to expunge their record, so they always are going to be known in the city, especially in the city of Philadelphia as the luxury killers, and it's really really unfortunate

well now tell us about shying blacks, second confession and what circumstances he came to make that second confession, and who did he implicate and what did the police do as a result? Implicated, three other guys Bruce Veney and two brothers Khalid and oh Farooqi, now interested enough when he. That would coloured people go. Rookie was being investigated by the federal by the fell, thorough agents for forgetting charges anyway, city had him and, what happened was when he was down. He actually admitted to the killings. Also when he is being invested it, interrogator rather already on weapons charges, and he was asking for immunity and a deal, but they wouldn't give it to him, but so they will, with charged with the seven counts of murder and robbery, and I related offenses

and all other EC. Seven life sentence is with no possibility of parole except Bruce Veney, who elected to cooperate and testify against against the his codefendents, and they gave him a fifteen or thirty year sentence. So they did, they did determine that. He was somewhat less involved in the other three perpetrators. Is that why they decided to give him the fifteen to thirty, or he just provided information that they thought was? necessary. Well, he well. He would, according to the report again, I can't say for sure why they gave him fifteen to thirty, but he was very instrumental in solidifying the case because he did cooperate and told everything As far as what happened in the house, you know what

was it over? What was it about so because this collaboration, they were able pretty much solidified a case and in a conviction, thirteen convictions. Now, what did Bruce Beanie say was the motive for this mass murder, while Bruce Rainy Russia with him, because Bruce did really provide. A real solid reason for the murders, however, So you black, actually my interview with him. You know told me himself what it was over and there was something that you know what Blue, whereby the type of a minor someone can kill that many people over southern ITALY and done what was the motive accord, the shine, the Mulder report. I saw him, it was already disrespect

I know what happened. There was reported that it was over a car, Actually, he exchange cars with one of the victims. George Porter and George. The card he gave George was a stick shift and he burned the clutch out, George did and he wanted his his car back. So he went back to you, went to get his get his car back and give shot him back. His car and plus he's gonna give him five hundred dollars for burning the clutch shot. He said he sold the car for some guns, some kind of way George took his car back and uh. This respected him and shining thought this respected and they got him in the three other guys went back to the house and there were supposed to go to the reform of the problem, and then everything is weighed down army from there was it whether there was some.

Story about one of the mass gunmen. His mask fell down, and so there would have been witnesses so he fell. These are vital to shoot him, and then there was so much shooting going on. Other people start shooting color. I also believe that here that's what happened when they were up stairs the two gunmen upstairs en mass going when they forced them downstairs under the guise mass fell off and, as you mentioned in, is in a book that they were concerned about witnesses. Becaus, obviously you know they were from the community from the area and people would know they are be able identify him. So, instead of just having a robbery charge, they had seven first degree: murder charges because they'd elected to kill everybody right uh. Now these guys go to trial. These four guys, a new at this attorney is in you can mark gills yeah, and you can

these speculate? Why that is they? They said well known, it wasn't because of poor performance, but it was just some new faces, and so how do they proceed with this? Are they still looking at the DES pedal the on? How does the trial proceed? Well, the trial proceeded of course, like you mentioned, the have a new district attorney Mark Wilson took over the case for Roger King and the two of them actually played guilty and exchange for a pleading guilty. They took the death penalty off the case. They took the death apparently off the table, but also by doing that, he relinquished his rights to appeal, meaning that because they're, not they didn't seek the death penalty, he can't appeal he can't build,

This is a sentence and the other two they went to trial culling, though rookie they went to trial and then eventually they just play guilty when they were pretty much caught and they received seven light senses and Bruce Mini, because this is cooperation. He got fifteen to three thousand and fifteen to thirty years. So weird part about it is that they were seeking death penalty for the first four but only for the second, the second set, and basically, I believe at that time they just pretty much wanted to get this lecture case over and done with and never wanted to hear from it again. And at some point- and we won't give this away- because this is one of the more interesting parts of the book- is that you eventually

were able to secure an interview with shining black in prison after his convenience and will just leave that for people that are going to purchase the book and get to read the words from this psychopathic killer very interesting. Now, at the trial we had talked quite a bit about suckle, nukes mother. She attended a trial that that first trial, who were the who are the people that attended the second trial and Intel it's also about one of the murder victims. One of the mothers was, I thought this was very gripping part of the book. Do she had always contended that, despite everybody being in that home being a drug dealer or some kind of major drug user, she contended at her son was just in the wrong place at the wrong

time and at some point she was vindicated and I'm imagining. That was at that second trial. So tell us a little bit about that and tell us about some of the people that were attending that trial. Religiously right second trial was Veronica Conyers. She was the mother of Carbon Helen. She never miss the Heron Dornier proceeding. And she was adamant that her son didn't sell drugs and he was just there playing video games. So you know Then, when she, you know when they first came out. You know, no one really believe no one either that you know everybody thought ok, he's in the drug house with drug deals and drug users, quite naturally he would be a drug dealer but

what the truth actually came out and he actually was just there playing video games and that trial was there wasn't no, it wasn't as big as the other one, the first trial again and they had the same fanfare. He did have a lot, but not as much as it uhm. The first trial did, but you know they, you know they got it cooking care of the like. I said they have new prosecutor, prosecution team and this guys his guy sends- and that was it yeah, and it was still big news in the media, though, and it was still international press and the national press from this trial as well yeah, because you know the interesting part with this case is not just so much about. I mean, of course, about its course about what happened, but this is one of these type of stories as a human interest story is something that touched him alive. He could touch human lives,

no matter what walk of life that your end, because if you have a child, you can be effective. You you would be touched by this particular case, especially when you hear about the fifteen year old, who was killed. Nineteen year old was killed. How the mother, you know, would never miss trial and how these other four his lies were ruined. Who had nothing to do with it? And you know it just really touches you as a person. You know it doesn't necessary if you like, true crime. Of course you know this is up your alley, but if you just it just touch you as a human being and that's how this the story touch me as a human being, not so much like. I said it was a lot of different aspects about this particular case Acura

way too, and but just as just regular human person, it just really a touching story, and it was a sad story is a sad story for the victims, the victims, families victim friends. They said for those four guys who were falsely accused is even sad for those for kids for guys who actually were convicted in their families. So it was just a big LOS by small community that was rock by senseless murder. Yeah yeah, it's crazy. Yet it is really a motive when you do find his motive in your waiting for this throughout the Balkan, you go while its anti climatic, because it's not much of a motive at I mean it, I mean even the first when they first talked about drug related, it was you know they were investigating the police in your book. You chronicle this where they thought, while this guy I've, done something it might have been overturned and ends up being

the Abbe, that's pathetic in itself, and not so understandable and senseless. But when you, when you read shining black and how he talks and it's just it's beyond pathetic, it is just a senseless, senseless crime that will affect people for years and years and generations and generations. It's amazing the tool that something like this would have on the city in a community and all the people involved. Yes, it does, and it still do it still is still a delicate subject for many people in Philadelphia Electric case and everybody remembers it everybody remembers is very well just in fact that was in the barbershop in Philly they were shown the documentary and shopping everybody. It is all eyes on the televisions and everybody was talking about it, an

I don't think everybody knew that I wrote it and did the wrote the book and did a documentary. So it was just interesting to hear the different feedback in the comments and the discussion that was going on in there and how is funny that somebody, everywhere. I went know someone or know someone that knows someone that was somewhat real a part of the extreme case. I thought up by means of a big city by better boy. There, s a big in our broad this case- was right now before we go? We've just got a couple minutes I wanted to say you have you have a website, but you also have this documentary so tell us what the title

of the documentary is and- and I also see that's included in the book at the back as a special bonus. So tell us tell us about the documentary where people might be able to get it if they, if they don't purchase the book or if they can get. Is there a trailer for this? Tell us a little bit about the documentary sure the website, isequalverdicts dot com and the documentary is: two thousand documentary that I shot back in two thousand and seven, whereas I interviewed the judge some lawyer, where is the suspects, so I kinda like put that together, because there were so many different players that was involved Theresa Conroy reporter, but it was so many different people who were involved that I thought it would be. It would be a great aid for persons that were read the book to be able to see visually. Who was who and what was what

but a lot of times. You know you can get lossed when there's a lot of different people, but I wanted them to be able to see and touch and feel the actual for people who had something to do with it. So I shouted documentary which was a two thousand and seven Sundance submission, and then I included with each book. That's something I don't think any book on the market has, but that I've seen anyway, where comes free with each book, so each book that you get what, where the documentary and adhesive sleeve in the back of the book, and if you get it the evil, they won't have a lawyer. But what we do is we are true the trailer link on my website for the trailer. If email basic comments are equal, Riddick will be more than happy equal verdicts. Dot com would be more than happy to seeing you a documentary for free without a problem yay. I know it's a really nice bonus and errors. As you say, I've never seen I'm doing this for

for years and bread numerous numerous box in the hundreds. I've never seen it commentary included. There was always a way. Maybe to get it, but this is this was very nice bonus and, like you say, did you have a really good visual introduction to places and people important to the story and sort of just takes you into the story, a little bit to show you the neighborhood, and what what what you're actually talking about in the book. So it's quite effective in it's a nice bonus for the book. It's excellent package too, you've done a great job with the cover art and everything. It's really nice, so one wow command. You on that, and I appreciate that. Thank you so much did well. I just want to tell our audience that they ve been listening to Anton M Jones when we ve been discussing his book, equal verdicts, the Lex Street murders and on Em Jones thing

you very much aunt on for a very, very informative program. Thank you very much for coming on this little program. True murder not appreciated than so much. I wanted to mention the website warmer times I gotTa Fed W W Diet, equal verdicts, dot com, an email address is comment at equal verdicts, dot com so I'm always always respond to emails. And again, if you get the book and ebook- and you don't have the documentary more than happy to send it to you, that's nice, that's a nice addition! Ok! Well! Thank you very much at time. We're going to end the program. Now even people been listening to the true murder, the more shocking killers in true crime, history and others are written about them. With my special guest Anton M Jones, equal verdicts, the Lex Street murders goodnight. Can I thank you

and now I thought from Geico Motorcycle. It took fifteen minutes to take a spirit, animal quiz online. Please be the cheetah. These be the cheetah and learn your animal. Isn't the cheetah, but the four less appealing blood fish. Oh, come on. To add insult to injury. You could have used those fifteen blobfish minutes to switch your motorcycle insurance to Geico Geico. Fifteen minutes could save you, fifteen percent or more on motorcycle insurance. The house of roll journeys far and wide to bring you exceptional quality, kitchen and bath fixtures in all of this, you'll see the details of your own story: the story of a life well, crafted welcome to the House of Rome.