Let's say you just bought a house, bad news is you are one step closer to becoming your parents, you'll, probably mow the lawn and ask if anybody noticed you mowed the lawn tell people to stay off the lawn, compare it to your neighbor's lawn and complain about having to mow the lawn again good news. Is it's easy to bundle home and auto through progressive and save on your car insurance, which of course, we'll go right into the lawn, progressive casualty, insurance company, affiliates and other insurance discounts not available in all states or situations? And now an ad from dad all right? Save money on car insurance when you bundle home and auto with progressive gothic is a what is This looks good wow. Where did you get this? I'm talking to you with the hair yeah? Where did you get this good stuff,

and so on, that's not the near that solid stuff. Progressive can't save you from becoming your parents, but we can save you money when you bundle home and auto progressive casualty, insurance, company, affiliates and other injuries discounts not available in all states or situations. God told radio.

You are now listening to true murder, the most shocking killers and true crime history and the authors that have written about Gacy, Bundy Dahmer, the night Stalker Dck every week, another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killer crime, history, room murder with your host journalist and author Dan. This is Nancy good evening in nineteen. Seventy seven four teenagers were kidnapped and attacked near an aunt Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri only one survive. This book is written by

The first hi, I'm Jay, Farner CEO of Quicken Loans, thirty percent of Americans who are planning home improvements of five thousand dollars or more will pay for those renovations with a high interest credit card. That may not be a great idea. A better idea may be to take cash out of your home with a Quicken loans. Thirty year fixed rate mortgage. The rate today, in our thirty year, fixed rate mortgage is three point: nine nine percent APR four point: zero. Eight percent call us today at eight hundred Quicken or go to rocket mortgage dot com rates of exchange. At one point, two five percent be receive the discount rate, all the concentration in conditions because, like license in all fifty states and one hundred thirty sponsor to the CALL Missouri state highway. Patrol trooper Jb King, he goes back time to tell how it was from the moment of the crime until the conviction of military police Game Warden, Johnny Lee Thornton. His purpose is to tell the story of Palau Ski County, Missouri's crime of the century, in detail and with clarity from the first minutes after this attack was reported, United States, Army,

Pro bureau of Investigation FBI, the armies, criminal Investigation Command CID in the United States, attorneys office. Work together to bring the killer to justice. This book is a first hand comprehensive look into the investigation and the shocking story. The book tour featuring this evening's frozen tears. The four Leonard Wood MP murders with my special guest retired law enforcement, professional and author Jb King welcome to the Graham, and thank you very much for green. This interview, Jb King. I appreciate the opportunity talk to your audience today. Thank you very much. It's a remark double book and equally remarkable case. Now you open this in January 13th, one thousand nine hundred and seventy seven tell us what your

Roll was what we were doing professionally in law enforcement and with who tell us a little bit about this. Also, this Fort Leonard Wood Reservation Military base tell us about this, where it is tell us a little bit about this and what you were doing in your official rule at that time? Well, damn that's pretty broad question. Fort Leonard Wood was established in nineteen thirty nine, when World war. Two was looming on the HORIZON and United States government appropriated roughly seventy five thousand acres of land in the Central Ozarks Highland just off of route. Sixty six at that time and establish the military base to Fort Leonard Wood. It was used for training, combat troops.

Overseas and has basically been used for the same purpose ever since now, at the time This particular case came up. I was a trooper with the Missouri State Highway patrol the patrol did assignments bike. These are my assignment was Pulaski. County Missouri, which includes the Fort Leonard did federal reservation, the fact that it's a federal reserv Haitian, leads to some special legal circumstances, because on the federal land, all criminal act, Liberty is the strict. Per view of the United States government so in this particular case The actual crimes were committed on Fort Leonard Wood, where I had no first fiction, but the surviving victim walked off base into my territory so to speak,

and as result, I got it chance to interview her and start this case rolling forward. Now you write that the call came in at one hundred and eighteen pm and this Mr Needham, tell us what he says to you and what you discover about his daughter and and this entire case. What do you find out at that time was? This is well. He called into true pie headquarters at Rolla, Missouri and basically told the dispatchers there that he was the father. What a what a girl age, sixteen and that he knew where she was and where the other kids were. But then he added the fact some of them had been shot which at that time did not make sense. On the initial scenario,

so. My role was as a trooper patrolling Pulaski County. On that particular day shift. I was sent S on Missouri 17th. Contact Mister Needham and find out exactly what was going on. You also found out round about this time that there have been four teens reported missing Wednesday night Talk about that and tell us whether conditions that night as well. Ok, we had a miscommunication or not. The information was given, I'm not sure at this late date, which way it went, but we had no knowledge of any missing kids while I was driving to the scene, the true pike Dispatchers contacted the Fort Leonard Wood, military police and learn that for kids have been reported missing the night before not

it took me quite a while to get down to the scene, because, unfortunately I was driving a rear wheel, drive patrol vehicle and we had which inches of snow and ice on the road, so speed was not exact, the factor in this response. Yeah. Now, when you came up to Mister Needham, you describe him as being hysterical. And he had woman in in the vehicle. So tell us what he says in what you observe. Well, the first thirty seconds admit it. I don't know what he said. He I couldn't make out what he said and he, I think, got fresh pretty with me, because he finally paused for a minute took a deep breath. He pointed toward his vehicle and said we'll do something she's been shot in the chest, so I walked up to the vehicle and the

Was a slender young lady sitting there quietly crying very well dressed, very clean, no blood insight, no dirt definitely did not look like a gunshot victim. I believe I said to her that you know he's you were shot. She lifted up her left all farm and showed me what appeared to be a bullet crease across the arm. It could have been made by some for the mechanism of injury, but it did appear to be a bullet crease. Then I said well, he said you were shot in the chest and at that when she lowered her blouse and she had a a major Calib entry hole right near the top of her breast. And the wound was actually many hours old. It was one crusted over and it clearly,

it's not a serious wound, despite the fact that it was obviously a major caliber wound. I know that sounds like a contradiction, but That's the way it was. She was exhibiting no signs of physical distress from the gunshot wound. But she was obviously and like use the word of catatonic state, but she was close to it. She was frightened out of her mind and, like I said, crying so It is very unusual sight to look at this young lady now what the tale that she tells you that she imparts to you well, according to her her free friends and herself, had been spending a quiet eve, together playing cards and having fun and the

gentleman who owns the vehicle. Tony Bates decided did he it some gasoline, and so they are piled into the vehicle and went to the gas station in their small town locally, which was closed and at that I'm there why, not a whole lot of commercial establishments south of Fort Leonard Wood, so that meant they had to drive across the base to Waynesville Angel Robert Area on the north side of fort wood and in their gas there school had been cancel all throughout the area because of the snow. So they weren't worried about getting back late. Or anything along those lines, so they set up driving across post. Now, who do they encounter and what does this person say to them? What does he do.

They encountered a military police officer in a marked vehicle who stopped him and began Questioning them asking for identification after for a moment or two. He told them, kids, that their v goal was a match for a vehicle that had been used in an armed robbery of the Southgate Texaco, which is on the south side of Fort Leonard Wood, and he was going to have to take them in for questioning now. The two boys did not. I would imagine they were not too alarmed at this point, because one of the boys Wesley Hawkins his older brother worked at the gas station. So. I don't believe they had any fear of charges being filed or anything like that, so they very quietly allowed the Officer to handcuff them he put them into the backseat.

Out of his patrol vehicle had the youngest girl sit between them in the back seat, which was a bench type seat and he had. The other girl sit up front. He then went around and started to get into the vehicle, and then at that point he stopped. He drew out his forty five cal super semi automatic pistol and fired three shots. He shot each boy one time and had one complete miss now the reaction from these women are one of the girls ass. Why did you do that? Why did you, why did you shoot and his answer was? Basically so they wouldn't get rowdy there. Reasons why you have done it that way, but this The sheer shock of the moment is got to be extremely emotional impact on both of the

young. Ladies obviously, the two boy Is each of whom has been hit by a forty five caliber slug is completely different, so basically he obtained control of the situation totally at that point you write that one of the boys is unconscious. It looks like we're not making any noise and one is groaning, so you have that sit asian now. What is this person in this Mps vehicle saying that he's got these people suspects in arm robbery? I don't know if anybody can believe it, especially the girls can believe this at this point. But what does this person do. Where does he take them? And what does he say? Well, he started to leave this

scene of the abduction? Then he stopped and drove back a number of yards back to the the car that these kids have been in. He got out of the vehicle and took a nights and punctured a front tire so that the vehicle would display uh flat tire. While he was doing that he left the the international scout running, but it was a stick shift the our goal and neither one of the girls knew how to drive it, and so they lost a golden opportunity to extract from me right there. You have one of the things that we didn't touch on and I think this is important will be important. Later, I think is that he asks if any of these people,

looked at their identification, but he asked if any of these kids are military dependants does correct. He was screaming very carefully now. What do the? Where do they go? how does it go with these women and what does he have them? Do the four hundred with reservation, as I said earlier, is about seventy five thousand acres at that time. It's now down to about seventy two thousand, but it has thousands of acres, way and that I think the average per person would say it out in the middle of nowhere out in the boondocks, and he took these kids down to a what you would call a to shack on the river at the time the Ruby Do River was frozen over and the shack is to

all there's no electricity, but there is a pot belly stove in it that you can go would in and crank it up and actually get the place somewhat warm and that's what he did. He left the boys in the scout vehicle outback took the two girls inside started a fire in, so and got the place reasonably warm. You talk about and not to get into the details, but what does he have these women doing? What disease oddly and strangely, say to them? Well, he made a number of states. Since he made one statement that he was an MP. He made another statement that he was deserting the next day, but His actions were more serious. He kept the forty five in his hand at all times, first, the two young ladies to strip

everything but their socks an he, then forced them to met a series of sexual acts upon each other. And then later after he had taken off his clothing to perform sexual It's on him and then he raped both of them. This entire scenario took about three and a half hours as near as we can calculate it. They were under the impression these girls because he had said things some like that if they complied so there was that they would did comply because there was this. Insinuation that, if you it cooperated if they comply that they would be ok and it wouldn't hurt them correct and it probably got a little more excuse me complex than that

Because several times during the course of this three and a half hours, he had to leave the shack and go outside and get more wood and every time we did that they heard him talking to the boys in the scout and so the the bribing girl got the idea. Somehow that gets sedated the boys. But she didn't quite understand what was going on, but yes, they read ain't that element of hope that if you cooperate it then they would come out so this nightmare. You know alive and well so soon, though they they hear gunshots, don't they we only have one witness, but they both here the same things. What do they hear? What do they? What does he do well at the of the three and a half hour period when he was

and he made this statement that it's four hundred and twenty am and I'm behind schedule. So we had the girls, get dressed again put him back in the vehicle and drove about another mile and a half from the shack and then drove just to little ways down a dirt path? I guess you would call it the start up to get the girls get out and start walking down the path. And I got about twenty yards or so from the scout vehicle, and he told the stop and turn around and when they turned around, he fired shots at him. The surviving girl was hit and fell to the ground. The other young lady was not it, but she fell to the ground and uh Kevin. Drug her into the woods d for into the woods in evidently disk- She was faking and stood

directly over and fired one shot straight down into her chest. He came back and picked up writing. Girl Drucker into the woods, kicked her a couple of times to make sure she was dead. Buried her in a snowbank just she had done the other young lady, but then he went back to the vehicle took out One young man that was in the vehicle who had taken a bullet right through the heart and it died almost instantly he drug him off into the woods, buried him in the snow bank. And then it took the fourth young man off that shot and wounded earlier and leading him off into the woods. When. That young man, whose name was by that time had to know what was going to happen next, so keep broke free from

it took off running, but the only made it about seventy or so feet before he tripped over a log that was hidden in the snow and before he could get up to came up behind him and shot him in the back of the head, killing him instantly now You say Juanita is didn't lose. Consciousness. So again, like the other girl, but the more successfully She has made him leave that she's dead. Doesn't she yes, her presence of mind her. Desire to live her fortitude any do you want to put it? She was absolutely yeah, I'm almost lost for words here her. For actions that they were tremendous. Now only for herself, but probably in preventing other viet victims from coming up in the future. Sure, certainly certainly.

Now you say to that, then I asked just before this to clarify because you've you conclude in the book a headline from a newspaper that says she ran twelve hours to a woman's trailer. In this eight inches of snow and cold after witnessing what she witnessed, but you say it was six hours will say six hours and so tell us about this encounter with this woman. What happens, and who did she call and ok the we don't know what time the shooting actually occured Thornton made the statement to the girls that it was four hundred and twenty am and he was behind schedule, but they had no way of verifying the time. He then took him off to the other section of woods where he shot him and then after he shot him, he hung around for about another thirty minutes before he finally left and the

surviving young lady did not get up out of the snow Bank until she knew that his vehicle was gone so probably talking somewhere around five hundred and thirty am is going to be when she started walking for help yeah. Precisely one thousand two hundred and thirty she knocked on the score of a trailer alongside Hwy seventeen. Now. We know it was precisely one thousand two hundred and thirty, because the lady that lived there had managed to get her car stuck in her front yard that day in the snow and could not go to war, So she was determined to watch her favorite soap opera, which was as the world turns and, if you're familiar with that show. You know that the opening credit shows a big round globe and it starts spinning, and it's exactly

thirty and that's when the knock on her door came well. Her name is Janice Eckelberry Janice, open the front door and found what I thought was a fourteen or fifteen year old girl standing there frozen half to death and almost incoherent in her talk and speech. So she got her into the trailer put her in front of the wood stove. Begin warming her up in the next couple minutes. It was kind of spooky because the girl was talking about murders and Ray chips and Janice was home alone with her two small children and had no idea what was going on. As the young lady became milk. More coherent is she, you know, started warming up. Your story made a little more since she was talking about being stopped by the NP and him shooting him and being raped an.

Is this one all but further Janice realize she needed to help her, so she brought some dry clothing into the room it helped. The surviving girl change clothes for when she did that at one point, when they took I want you to suck a men's ring. Out of the socket and rolled across the floor and twenty that made the statement that that's my boy, it's raining he's dead in the woods when not Dortmund had them strip in the cabin she taken ring off and slipped it into her stock because she was determined to hang on to it. And it's rolling across the floor. That was probably the first real sentence that she said to Janice the other

words that she ordered were sort of fragments of let loose didn't, make much sense, and then, of course, while they were changing her clothes, JANET saw the two gunshot wounds and by giving her the fresh flow she presented. What she met me a little while later the image of a person that can help to speak in spam. No injury here after she got the clothing change and she became a little more little more coherent. She asked to call a friend and Janice later call she called the brother of, The older brother of the young man that was down in the woods with are and that gentlemen picked up Mister Needham, whose daughter was in the woods.

And they came up to get her they when they showed up at the trailer. It took one look at him and said: don't let him in and she kind of ran to the other side of the trailer and Janice Esther who these men were, and she said: well it. What is the brother, my boy, Ran in the other is the father of my friend in the woods and so Janice open the door and called him back, and while the three of them were talking and Janice went to the backside of the trailer to check on her two children, she had uh. Seven year old and a four year old, a the trailer, the time and she had looked in autumn for quite some time. Because of It was girl in the living room and when she finally came back up front. The older gentleman asked if he could call the highway patrol, and she said yes, so that's when the call came into true pie from Mister Needham And then, a few minutes later

all three of them left and went south on. I seventeen to sit roadside at the Point order. Tracks came out of the woods in the snow. Yes, so now you are inextricably involved here. What she had also said to you in this again now it maybe an initial interview, but you soon got information out of her describe. Sing. The person It was driving this vehicle, but of very eerie thing that she notice the number and she said, EK or two hundred and thirty, seven. Now, right at point, you made a realization that this was an MP vehicle, but you would also call for backup from these Mps tell us about this. This horror, you say you were dumb. You went with your realization. Tell us what happened that you were horrified, basically at the prospect that you learn quelled that

There's a little bit longer because when I first started talking to her, it didn't make a lot of chance in this time went on and she kept give me more details, including the description, a very detailed description of an international scout vehicle. Which the Mps would had at the time. My first Thought was well that does sound like an Impi vehicle, but we had this previous in purse, nation about a year prior. Were a guy flew in from Fort Bragg. Fort Leonard Wood, overpowered in MP took all of his equipment. Picked up a payroll officer and took him out to a. Deserted range blocked him in the trunk of the stolen patrol tour and basically flew back to Fort Bragg with about fifty thousand dollars in cash, while the FBI and seed idea it broke. In that case, I had heard some details about it, so my first thought is: ok. We've got another fake camp

running around time went on and she kept answering my questions. She gave me cancer. She told me some of the radio traffic she was hearing over the radio and the military police at that time had a very. I hate to use the word stylized, but that's probably the best word very precise and stylized way they communicated over the radio and if you Listen to him any at all. You could recognize your traffic in a heartbeat and She gave me details of that traffic. She described the the vehicle to appear in and the number on the fender well and the more she talked finally got to the point where I realized. This was not a fair. We can pay this with a real live MP officer in a marked patrol vehicle

and, as you said, I had just called for MP back up, because this crime is on Fort Leonard Wood. I don't have any jurisdiction to investigate it, so you call back and a M p Jensen, so they they come in uh to scout international, and what do you notice right away when the scout comes and Jensen another well when they arrived on the scene. Captain Becca, I asked for. MP, backup, including the highest ranking officer. They could find and four wheel drive vehicles and they stand Captain Raymond back of the two hundred and eight military police company and several other people And then, as time went on, additional units began arriving on the scene. I hit basically given Becker briefing

what the situation was and then he stopped. Me and said? I want a search in Jensen here to hear this story because he's going to take the cid team down to the scene and while I'm talking to Jensen, giving him the story again. I realized that he's leaning up against an international scout and the number on the side of it is thirty, seven. Well, that's so close to three hundred and twenty seven that I instinctively knew this. Is going to be the suspect vehicle and it was kind of a well- you said construction, I won't argue with that. I totally shut down I'd frozen place, didn't know what to do. No, you find out immediately that I believe Jensen says right away that because he's involved with Orton

he says story reported, shooting some dogs the night before. Why that's a correct? What we tell us why that would be significant and alarming silly. The surviving girl it describe the empty vehicle to a tee, and she gave us the number off the side in this number here- was so close to the number that she had given that it was almost improbable that it could not be the correct vehicle and so Jensen has just driven up in the suspect vehicle and when back and I both realize that, and we both had two seconds to think back, turned to Jensen and said who drove this vehicle last then search Jensen was the head of the Fort Leonard Wood. Game, warden detail at that time, the noncommissioned officer in Charge- and he you know pumped

two names, one of which was storm. And then the realization of what we were saying struck him in his mouth dropped open, and he said, oh, my God Thornton said he shot some dogs last night, and so just that quick we've got shots fired all. We know it's almost got to be the same vehicle and just we go from what do we have to red hot suspect in about three seconds? Yeah. Now captain Beck knows again, when you talk about this, that the line has to be secure, you don't want to alert all kinds of media or anyone, civilians or anybody. So you take him to a house to a friends house. He makes the call right away. What does he? What is he call for in terms of arrest or at least containment of Thornton? What is he said,

just to do and then what does almost immediately? Did they hear from Johnny Lee Thornton? Well, the communications on this particular date was critical, but they were also compromise When I was talking to true pie on the radio at that time, the patrols frequency was wide open. There were thousands of people, in and around Pulaski County with the police scanner. They would get here. The word I said so we had to be very guarded with what we said on the radio and for that matter the same thing applied to the MP frequency. Anybody with the scanner could hear it, so back instinctively knew he had to get to a phone, and he basically said I need a phone and at that, when I came out of my trance and I had a find lids couple miles up the road. So I took him to my friends house and we basically bar

dear grip, the phone back to all command on Fort Build, told him to Graham Thornton and the other in that Jensen. Chance of put him in a room under guard: read them their rights and to ask no questions well, Just a minute or two later he was told that Thornton had been in the building and had heard the news of survivor that he had already checked out of forty five caliber pistol and a couple of magazines of ammunition. So we could go work early that day and it left the building, and so basically fifty eight minutes after I started my interview with Juanita, either Deckard roadside the manhunt for Thornton started. You say to that. They immediately secured some exits in some entrances and you were assigned to the S exit or the back of Fort would

correct while you're there, you stop somebody and you talk to them. Tell us about this conversation and with who well the the back gate of Fort Wood is a little bit hard to get to an when this came up. They immediately wanted joint checkpoints at all. All for the gates, leaving fort, would and was the closest guy on the back gate, so they sent me to the back gate. They sent officers from troop G, which is a adjoining highway patrol. Group up to back me up and we were stopping everybody coming out, face. Looking for a white male five, nine hundred and sixty pounds, you know probably weren't fatigues well, there's about two million of those guys fit description on Fort Leonard Wood, so it was kind of a tense and edgy time an we've been at it for

I I don't know hour hour, so probably when I stopped the vehicle in the driver was an older white male and after looking in the vehicle, you know he's by himself. I told him to go ahead and instead Leaving a kind of closer to me and asked me if this were block had anything to do with the missing kids and that question kind of I guess, set me on edge. Be the way to put it. So I asked him why he was asking that question. He said one of the kids is my son. So that put me between a rock and a hard place. The humane thing to do under those circumstances with the talk to him, so I asked him to pull over Michael Emma was at the time I did not know for sure his son was dead in the woods,

explore all the information that you have available. Everything young lady told me and our weather conditions, which, like I said at the time inches of snow, the temperature overnight was in the I teams. During the day it was in the low 20s. We had a ten fifteen mile an hour n wind blowing, and if young men could now have gotten up out of that Snow Bank because of his wounds, then he was going to be deceased, but that wasn't confirmed so yeah. That decision bothered me for years, because, basically I told them and you're so it is dead, and I did not know that for sure, but based on everything I had available to me for information, young man had to be there. And he was appreciative of that information so so that so that you don't have to-

that when when I doing the research for the book, Mister Bates and jealous name is Leroy Bates. He get moved to the state of Alabama since this happened. It came back up here to visit a daughter, Anne I was able to sit down with him face to face for about an hour and a half in. We we had a good cry together and yes, he thanked me for telling you. That, because he really wanted to know what was going on and. For me, it was I don't even know how to express this to you. They're uh, really bothered me that I told This phone was dead, but yet I didn't know that for sure you know what, if somehow the end made a miraculous survival and I tell the father the Then he turns out he's alive. You know it just you, you don't want to tell people that

lost a loved one. Unless you know it's true, but in that particular case there could have been any other answer, and so I told him that really bothered me for a long long time. Until I talk to him during the research phase of the book and the was very appreciative of my effort that day, so I'm feeling a lot better over that decision. Right now right away right about these. CID agents and the FBI working together, they work together in teams CID agent, and And also FBI, agent, bird agents about, and Roy Black and Thomas Bird and Oyster Poister, roster pardon me so,

they pretty well have this sewn up. It looks like, but obviously you never know what can happen with win lawyers get involved, but they have part of their investigation is try to find bullets. We you write about right away. They get into the vehicle in question, is three hundred and twenty seven MP vehicle and they notice the bullet wound, not wound. Pardon me bullets in the vehicle itself. And obviously some evidence in that vehicle as well. How does this in Instigation proceed. Tell us about that build. It gets very complex in nineteen, seventy, seven we had a two man FBI Resident Office on Fort Leonard Wood? We will probably the

a military base in the country that Heather an FBI office on it. They were here for another purpose, but contrary to what tv in books will tell you. Fbi agents generally do not work. Homicides. And so the only time. They're going to get into a homicide situation is like what we have in this particular case are killing that occurs on a military or federal reservation, and so at that time the FBI really wasn't true. Bring up agents how to do this, so they walked into a homicide, investigation that The decision has already been made for them to take over well. But let me back up your second when you have a crime committed on a military base. No normally it's investigated by the all investigation, command of the internet,

States Army, basically the army's detective division. However, in this particular case, the kids who were killed were not Kerry or military dependents. They were civilians and so that almost automatically the Federal Bureau of Investigation case and so the F B, I n c id work together in a absolutely tremendous fashion, the two agents that were here all states at the time we're joined overnight by thirteen more agents say it an the next morning when we had our our big briefing. We had fifteen FBI agents and fourteen cid features available, and so one of the smartest moves in this whole investigation the command team

paired up one FBI agent and once he eighty h together as a team, and that was done for a number of reasons. First, it's an f b, I case but you're operating on the military base with the cid agents are familiar with and dealing with military customs people, commands and things of that so pudding. The two together was a good idea, a secondary reason was that the command staff running this case do immediately that the CID agents had better training in homicide, investigation and evidence. Securing techniques than the FBI agents did so meant that not only were the agents at the same crime c together or interviewing the same witness together, so that their reports would be very, very similar, but also that any evidence picked up by a cid agent would be

He immediately turned over to his partner standing next to him and thus getting the proper chain of evidence going for later court purposes. So pudding, the two different agents together. One team was an absolute gene. This move, because in that, for three or four days after this started. The agents there were fourteen teams of a agents and they had seven crime scenes to cover a noob. Twenty some odd people. They wanted to interview immediately because those people either worked with Thornton or New Thornton, or were the people that checked out the weapon to Thornton so that first, three or four days the investigation was absolute frantic chaos. Let's go back because we forgot a very, very movie, esque and vivid scene in this, in that

he isn't arrested under normal conditions whatsoever and fact it's a very tense situation. For the reader, especially not knowing what the outcome of what happens with this when they try to get this rest hello about this and his his conditions real once again complex about three hundred and thirteen pm that afternoon, they were looking for him. Manhunt was underway at roughly six hundred and thirty eight hundred Pm Johnny Thornton called the MP command building and asked to speak to search engines. And he ended up in a three way: Conversation Thornton sergeant Jensen, his immediate superior who was also a close personal friend of his and

the Provost Marshall, Fort Wood or the chief of Police of Fort Leonard Wood, Colonel Perry Elder and the upshot of the phone call was Thornton told him, I know you're looking for me- and I know you want to talk to me and I'll meet you out here in this spot. Basically, on the middle of nowhere on Fort Leonard Wood, but I'll only talk to you, to colonel elder and search engine, and you have to come on armed well. They kind of cheated on that one J Simpson, an elder, both kids stuff nose, thirty in their coat pockets and the FBI agent, who was the resident agent charge of the Fort Leonard Wood Office, was hiding in Back see the vehicle with a twelve gauge shotgun, they went to the appointed spot, where he said he would be, and the agreement was that when they

speech that spot and they shine their headlights on the woods, he would come out of the woods and face them and they would talk, didn't quite workout that way they are looking at the woods and the headlights and nothing's happening and all of a sudden, he I I'm here, but he's standing behind them, and so at that point the tactical situation is bill totally down the tubes. He is not illuminate by the headlights. They, however, are silhouetted by the headlights. And even worse the agent who supposed to save them. Page Casselberry is in the back seat of the vehicle between Thornton and the other two officers, so he's kind of trapped in pinned in and that leads to, about eight hundred and thirty to thirty five minute negotiation as they stand there in the snow thorns holding a forty five that they can plainly see an

during this time frame. He makes numerous statements he doesn't know what happened. He don't know what he did. He has a headache: bright lights spot I mean all kinds of gibberish. And they finally convinced Him to lay his weapons down. And they are able to take him into custody. You talk about the self incriminating statements, but there are just this is a very important because they're made, while he's not in police custody. So these are golden. These are you know, he's he they don't require a Miranda warning like you say, to be admissible and he says a lot of things like you say about the headache, almost

sounding like he's prepared for this by saying. Well, I get headaches and he talked about this- the trauma of being away from his wife, but they were getting back together, but it was fortuitous that he made those kinds of self incriminating statements that we, Couldn't hurt the case whatsoever, but only know they were tremendous at trial. The agents who were working the case from the very first moment that they made contact with him. Their gut instinct was that he was shooting for an insanity defense. He was laying the groundwork. An all of these notes and all of these statements Ella I back up. I said all of these notes. I haven't mentioned the fact that, His right shirt pocket was full with notes that he had written between

the time he knew the man that it started at the time he could fry these officers, he'd written all kinds of notes and when they took them out of his pocket. It's the same thing. You know what I know something happened. I don't know what it was. What did they do? I have a headache. I felt bad for months, just all kinds of things like that, and so the agents were convinced that he was going to do a insanity defense almost from the the very beginning. Now, within three days they had shipped to curtain up evidence that they knew they were going to convict him. The only question was, would he be able get off on an insanity plea and that leads into the. Brother large bag of worms, you say that with the prosecutor the prosecution did right away, though, was to make sure that he was they got a doctor for a medical.

Lamination so make sure he was fit for questioning. So this is an important step that they knew they had and they did it right. The FBI agent, The resident agent on Fort Leonard Wood, William Castleberry, did an absolutely outstanding job. On this case, he recognized almost immediately the. Knowing what they had, what the circumstances, what the optimum probable situation was going to be, he recognized almost At least this is gonna, be an insanity, defense and so water transporting port back to the troubles martial law office on for woods to do the formal questioning he asked the Provost Marshall to come up with a military doctor to examine Thornton, and does have his medical condition on record

and they actually called in the commander of the Fort would hospital another kernel to do the examination and he cleared. He said: there's nothing medically wrong with this man so when it came to for trial, his defense attorneys tried to insinuate that he was extremely fatigued, that nobody was saying it had no sleep and the information the examination by the doctor was quite critical at that point, good sing, two for the FBI interview. He has a condition that he wants his friend sergeant Jensen be in the room also so very interesting too. Now in that interview again, we we he continues and says. Look at, I remember stopping the car, but I don't remember doing anything. I got a headache, but the said some important things like. About his mother. I love her and I hate her. So he did a lot of talking deal

self incriminating statements. But again, like you say it names like an exercise in trying to set up an insanity defense. By saying I know I did something, but I don't know what I did and I can't remember so: it's a poor. You know for opportune opportunity, but a poor example of how you might try to do that, but he's doing While touring to recording- but it also sets the groundwork for later on for his defense team to okay- yes, our client is disturbed piece control. Dusties mentally deficient ease insane. He has a they finally settled on the term. He has a split personality and that bad Johnny made good Johnny, kill and uh this occured at a time frame in our country. When you had, I think two different books

Going up about the three faces of eve and civil and both of them dealt with cases were people under Hypnosis Red regressed back to previous lives that they had lived. And that in recounting the details they would say follow a certain certain road to the end of it, and you will find a blue house and to the right there will be a small concrete, shed things like that and when People follow up. They would find those particular landmarks where they said, and so at the time it was quite the phenomenon and so by him know, doing the split personality. You know my other personality made me: do it. No I'm not responsible here, you describe this

again, it's so eerie knowing that less than fifty years ago, this was accepted in the psychiatric circles. Incredibly that multiple personalities could be accepted. Now in this, they have a doctor, Claire and it's fascinating. You include in the book about how he does this through hypnosis and at that time, a drug that they considered a true I'm so administered the truth. Serum administered the also the another drug as well, which is very interesting at trial when, of course, the prosecution has their own psychiatric experts and also, what's even more interesting and hypnosis expert one of the leading hypnosis experts in the country. So tell us first of this doctor Claire and his examination and the performance basically of Johnny Lee Sort and with Doctor Cleary

hello. I am with him repeatedly and talk to him and then put him under hypnosis and rest him back to the day the crime trying to figure out. You know what he did do certain made a number of statements under the Hypnosis that were incriminating as can be, but they were the act. It's a bad, John and not good Johnny and Clarity finally presented the jury that Man has a dual personality: he can't control what he did want to Thornton's defense attorneys. I think, used the phrase that this is scribbling is any other disease out there and he's capable of you know with standing the thoughts of the other personality to kill these kids it it it it's kind of complex

just talking about a little bit hard. You almost have to read the book to get the entire flavor of what doctor Clary is doing, but he makes a number of critical things occur for. He administers drugs to put Portlander that became a major bone of contention later on when the do. When the prosecution expert came in guys, he basically said the use of any kind of drug is twenty to diminish the ability of the subject to be hypnotized and it that really got complicated again. It's interesting because it's so dramatic in visually. For me, because

And the reader, because there's a videotape that he makes and that's presented at the trial. So these are the hypnosis sessions he administers Dex Adren sodium Amatol, which is the truth serum, but then he puts one hundred and twenty five milligrams of F Adren, which, later with the prosecution psychiatrist. He says this was under him drowsy and groggy again, like you mention basically negating the or the or reducing the ability of of putting that person in a sufficient hypnotic state, which is what that correct. Other psychiatrists testified to, but

during this again when people are looking at this video and the Doctor Spiegel for the prosecution is asked to look and said. Did you review this video tape of this supposed hip hip gnosis? There are things that he does in that hypnotic state that that Doctor Spiegel. Disagree with in terms of procedure as well. What does he say about the entire thing and what is the performance that we see on that videotape? What is Johnny Lee Thornton saying and doing in that hypnotic stare? Ok, another complex question, so I'm going to back it up to the fact that the defense made these hypnotic recordings

without the prosecution's knowledge, they were not required to reveal this to the prosecution till just a couple of days before the actual trial started, so that led to a certain amount of panic in the prosecution side of the fence, but the second agent FBI agent, who was stationed on Fort Leonard Wood at the time, was Thomas did now. Tom had recently been to an in service training. Were simple, similar hypnotic state had occurred in another. The latest burger case that occured in a VA hospital that the FBI had investigated and Doctor Spiegel, the prosecution's defense with per prosecutions rebuttal witness in the end, had been part of that case and h now nab attended this seminar it going to

some of this. When now watch these tapes of portent he immediately detected or the key points of this whole case he immediately detected that this was pure bs, because the first thing that tripped him was Thornton is rambling on about this, and this and this and somebody walked into the room and shut the door which you know which I'm a private should not have happened, but when that happened, Parton quit talking until that person was seated and then he started talking again a little bit later. Similar situation occured when the telephone rang and doctor Clary answered the telephone in Thornton, stop talking patience and now and realized instantly that he was not under a full hypnotic state and still one doctor Spiegel came in. He was extremely critical of the defenses presentation of those

because it it said that if a person with the true hypnotic state recalling an event, they would be totally oblivious to the fact that somebody walked into the room or the telephone rang. And you know this is pure bs. Thornton is reacting to the clues given to him by doctor Clary in the questioning and responding in kind because he's developed the idea in his head that if Dr Cleary says looking up at Johnny made you do this right. Well, okay, if docked, Clarissa is bad. Johnny made you do this, and I agree with that. Then it's bad Johnny doing the killing and good Johnny over here, I'm just fine, and hopefully I can get off so basically Steagles Doctor Spiegel said that part was play acting going along with this suggestive comments made by the defense psychiatrist. It's it's very

odd and unreal almost what how the psychiatrist is talking Clary, Dr Clary, is talking to him and of course he's you know, Spiegel calls it coaching and that's exactly it is, but it's also very bizarre, some of the things he says about the two personalities believing wholeheartedly in Thornton's, explanation of the two personalities and then saying some bizarre things to urge him on, in terms of in that hypnotic state to induce to get John versus Johnny or or Johnny that Johnny part me bad John Pat Johnny versus. Good John, so it's very odd exchanged it gets complex and basically, you have to all that chapter very closely. Now, during

the actual trial, the Defense Foot Doctor Claire free on and when he finished his testimony, they put a couple of other people on behind him, which was kind of confusing because then, at a later date, Doctor Spiegel comes out for the prosecution, so I did like if she call it an editorial something or another, I put the two dueling psychiatrist. Gather in the same chapter, so they would make better sense. You get the defenses side of it of the good job, the bad Johnny routine and then the prosecution. It comes in right behind him and disputes. Everything that the defense is put out about this so It makes it a lot easier for the reader to follow. I think you talk about a pretty short deliberation after the closing arguments, because it's pretty well not much after these two do pulling psychiatrist go at it in court. Tell us how fast they come back and, what's

The decision what's the outcome, I was just under four. How course you caught me on that, when I can't remember the exact time right now, like four hours and twelve minutes or two hours and twelve minutes it very quick, pretty short yeah, but the final Kim is he was found guilty on all charges now the charge themselves are kind of unique, because jurisdictional issue arose on Fort Leonard Wood, where the Fort worth was first. Set up in one thousand nine hundred and thirty nine it was smaller than it is now. Later on the United States Forest Service in the state of Missouri both transferred parcels of land over two Fort Leonard Wood to help grow the base, so to speak, but those parcels of land several of am or never

properly deeded over and at the time this case surface, it didn't take a the lawyer long to figure out that the United States federal court might not have jurisdiction over a couple spots where Thornton did some of his worst right and so as a result, in the early stage, In this case, the United States Attorneys Office and Kansas, the Missouri presented a federal in jury with four very carefully selected charges and those char charges were. The first was the assault of Tony Bates for shooting and wounding him, but not killing him, which was. Committed on land that the federal court had jurisdiction on. There was a capital case filed for them Burger Wesley Hawkins, which occured in the spot where the federal court had jurisdiction. There was a federal case capital case

Again for the rape of Linda the which occurred in the spot, where the federal court a jurisdiction and then all for the kids were kidnapped for the purpose of rape, which is a totally different charge. It's also a capital charge, and it also occurred on a parcel of land with the federal court to prove they had sticks Later on, the actual murder of Tony Bates and the actual murder of Linda Needham occurred on these disputed lands. And, as a result, no charges were ever filed over their deaths. Now, when the trial concluded, Thornton was found guilty on all four charges here. Save life in prison on the three capital charges and got twenty years extra for the salt on Tony Bates by shooting and wounding him, but the federal judge ordered that the sentences be served consecutively and

not concurrently, so he basically has to serve the first life sentence before you can serve the second one before you can serve the third one which in essence means he's not coming out, but actually what we didn't talk about in, which is super fascinating as well is October, ninth or Since one thousand nine hundred and seventy six, two girls disappear in the same area, a cars found abandoned and Johnny Lee Thornton was the first to advise radio dispatcher about the car. Tell us about the shooting dog report and Albert Hoffman and Teresa Gossage. Eighteen and seventeen well again. This is another part of a very complex situation when Forton completed his shift on the morning of January thirteen,

one thousand nine hundred and seventy seven after shooting the three kids. He filed an official report with the a command that he had shot. I hit fire six rounds of ammunition to dispose of dogs and hunting area twenty, and then he had dumped their bodies at the stump dump on Fort Leonard Wood. He had to, account for the rounds that were missing from his ammunition that he turned back in Lee official document, his name social security number. He signed it in front of a couple. People admitted to everybody, he fired the shots, and that was one of the key. This is of evidence in the trial. Well then, going back several months, the night of October, the ninth and tenth the morning of the tent two other kids on the double date on Fort Lee,

Would Alfred Marshall and Teresa Gossage turned up missing? Their car was found parked they were not there and that's. Basically, all the military police I had to go on at the time now. It was especially horrifying to the local population, because, especially people. The new L Marshall, because AL was a. You know the sports figure at the high school, the the jock he always wore his letter J everywhere, you went. And he always carried a hair brush everywhere. He went and bought my jacket in there. Hair brush her and his locked car and he's nowhere insight. Ah nobody hears anything. Big then are ever so. Basically, it's a huge mister

We don't know what happened to him for sure. We strongly suspect we know, but the big difference is is that the Thornton murder case with the three kids has been fully adjudicated in federal court and it's zero dollars and fifty cents a page, you can get as many thousand copies of documents that file as you want well, the case would Marshall and Gossage is an open case and you can't get it. You can't get any, but in any reports, but the federal agents to work both of them and they put a bunch of agents worked on both of these cases. Tell me that there is a similar report that Dorton said he shot dogs the morning of October, the tenth an there is the report to that effect in the file which I cannot get so we say We have to take that as the the word and

that word is devastating to the families of Marshall and sausage. Absolutely absolutely. I want to thank you very much for coming on and talking about frozen tears to Fort Leonard Wood and p murders. For those who might want to take a look at more information about this. Do you have a facebook page and website that people might refer to we've established in? I have a public group on Facebook, Using the title of the book frozen tears, the Fort Leonard Wood MP murders log into that group. You'll find all kinds. Discussion, questions and answer several of the sisters and nieces of one of the victims have so posted their own heart felt messages on that page. It it's an interesting, page, and you can get a lot of information on there plus on that page. You'll, see

several different ways that you can actually order the book if you want to copy. Yes, I want to say to this: is red engine and press publishing your book right well and also. I just wanted to also say that you do put effects first to Sandra Miller, Lynn Heart, which is the co author of this book as well. Well, it's it's a case. Were I wrote the book and Sandy came along behind me and rewrote it, which is kind of complex because I have a tendency when I write to start talking and- and he did this- and he did this- and he did this and he did this well Sandy broke it up into. Percentages and made make the book a whole lot more readable and at the same time. She did not lose track of what my message was in that particular paragraph for that particular page and kept right on track so

yeah Sandy earned her pay on this one big time. Absolutely yes- and we didn't have time to get into the aftermath of this particular thing, what the military did to ensure that this would never happen again, but also just the effect on the community and people. Years and years later, you have antidotes of of people. Reaction to the Mps and even fear over this incredible case with Johnny Lee Jordan. I want to thank you very much for coming on and talking about frozen tears. The Fort Leonard Wood MP murders incredible. Thank you very much to be king good night. Thank you for inviting me. Thank you. Goodnight good night.

Hi, I'm Jay Farner, ceo of Quicken Loans, thirty percent of Americans who are planning home improvements of five thousand dollars or more will pay for those renovations with a high interest credit card. That may not be a great idea. A better idea may be to take cash out of your home with a Quicken loans. Thirty year fixed rate mortgage. The rate today, in our thirty year, fixed rate mortgage is three point: nine nine percent APR four point: zero. Eight percent call us today at eight hundred Quicken or go to rocket mortgage dot com rates of exchange at one point, two: five percent the receive a discount rate off across the permission in conditions because, like license in all fifty states and one hundred thirty hi, I'm Jay Farner CEO of Quicken Loans, thirty percent of Americans who are planning home improvement of five thousand dollars or more will pay for those renovations with a high interest credit card. That may not be a great idea. A better idea may be to take cash out of your home with the Quicken Loans thirty year fixed rate mortgage. The rate today, in our thirty year, fixed rate mortgage is three point: nine, nine percent APR four point: zero. Eight percent call us today at eight hundred Quicken or go to rocket mortgage dot com rates of exchange. At one point, two: five percent the receive the discount rate, all the concentration in conditions because, like license in all fifty states and one hundred thirty