"Hunting a Psychopath" is a fascinating first hand account of the crimes of California's East Area Rapist Original Night Stalker couples killer. Detective Shelby was the first Sacramento detective to make a connection between a series of rapes that began in the middle class communities of East Sacramento in the late 1970's. His book details the efforts to apprehend this psychopath before he transformed into a southern California serial killer who preyed upon middle class couples through a terrifying series of home invasion murders. I highly recommend this book for readers of true crime. This particular series of crimes remains unsolved, leaving many questions about a violent predator who has been labeled one of the most brazen criminals and one of the least publicized. Detective Shelby's book is fast paced and full of investigation details.. . HUNTING A PSYCHOPATH-The East Area Rapist-Original Night Stalker Investigation-Richard Shelby
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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hunting. A psycho path is a fascinating first hand, account of the crimes of California's e area rapist. Original night. Stalker couples killer, detective. Shelby was the first sacramental detective to make a connection between a series of rapes that began in the middle This communities is EAST Sacramento in the late 1970s. His book details efforts to apprehend this cycle path before he transformed into a in California, serial killer who made up on middle class couples through a terrifying series of home invasion, murders the Particular series of crimes remains on salt leading Any questions about a violent predator has been labeled won the most brazen criminals in US history, and one of the least publicized detective Shelby's book fast paced and Fulham investigative details. The book there were
it this evening is hunting a cycle path. The east the rapist original night stalker investigation with mice, show guest journal just an author and Detective Richard Shell, We welcome to the program Richard Shelby. Thanks glad to be here, Thank you very much incredible book and we're gonna get right right into this. So let's talk about the The first thing that you start off, you begin this book in Salia, California, in nineteen, seventy four there's been a prowler the Visalia Ransacker, who has terrorize the community for two years bro king and entering and peeping in windows. So tell us about. The salient California and the a ransacker. Or is sell you S of Fresno. Central
for your and their guide here that by sea ranch sector with please a certain area, always simmer, it believe it. He would prowl, usually order hi cool game night, basically from all the street from the hospital down Africa which hospital it was, but he would take the window screen off for windows and throwing up on the roof, and he get inside the house. He would. He would go through the clothing in the drawer. He would steal men's underwear that to a whole new one, women's lingerie, He would toss aside throat around like his med or something I think once he lead a gun out on a bed. He was known to take Jump Julie how to complete set. He might take a party one and leave apart and pay the scene a few times and usually when he was, he was talking to a phantom next to him man. So in one night and the guy turned
this left and said we gotta get outta here, Ben and there's nobody there and then I think George Universe in September of seventy five, a girl woke up and this creep. His hand over mouth taking her outside and polish had to come with him when he goes out the door Her father, professor smelly, here's something he comes to the front door and ask the guy: will you taking my daughter, the suspect, turn? fire twice hit. Mister professor smelling twice who died: at the scene later named the gun in a girls face, and then he pulled it back and kick her face in the left. There was some septem again in the following December, the Bridget VON and special agent gallon were speaking out neighborhood. They did with the guiding prowling. There's no question about that, and especially in the gallon hurting walked by the
down the sidewalk from where he was fighting. She walked up when the guy in the guy was staring looking in the window of the house. Again, I pulled his gun, held the light up, pull the guy too turn around labor was and the suspect turn looked at him. He pulled his hat off his head with right hand be slip pocket with the left hand, while squeaking don't hurt me or people out of Johnny, fired one round that he offered it went dead, so download the lens of the flashlight right down to the center of the batteries and then they brought into dog nobody else they figured out later, but the guy just walked across the highway by the hospital's figure and watch them like they were looking for him convert but the bad learned all this was. He went to a criminal profile the only one who had real interested who said the suspect virtually really company and he probably moved, would move from from there and two days after the shooting for utility company employ
We requested a transfer up Sacramento came up your ass, I met. Then they came up Sacramento to tell us what they had check on these very rapist reports, and then they wanted somebody go with them to the town of Davis fifteen miles away and confront the suspect of This boost potential suspect, which is what we did before this. There is a controversy that there were Happens around the same time as well, that there is a reports of a early bird rapist and early morning rapist so briefly, go into that and how this plays into this east area rapist. The very very before anybody makes any kind of connections. Easter are the early bird reapers. He started in about nineteen seven thousand and seventy one. I don't know he was running there somewhere and while he was ACT, He committed forty one rates. And he would confront the women in their own. The Ender apartments
We went many houses this along now, I can't be sure and then pretty soon we kind of thought. Maybe there was a copycat from back up a little bit. He's he's doing this kind of stuff we're talking about then February. Fourth February. Fourth, in seventy six. He was a command for seeing them. My book even tried to protect the woman at her daughter. They beat him off. He came back looking for a medallion and he street right by Lighted lamp and the girl sign two by twelve years old. She got a good look at it. By chance. Parked across the field near their house, we've seen by a citizen who walked up, look at put down the license plate and called it in two officers came up and walking around looked at and wrote it down, and then we tracked it back. It came to this carpet layer Pollock Pines, California February six. Seventy six
I promoted inspector in my office on a month or so after that Gerald Daily detected daily, walked into this huge stack reports on my desk and sit and have fun caps from I said give you these, so I got got into it. I found out all this information. Well, we know he was the guy. And we know this guy was here to break this. We also figured out he had a copy cat. Who was, His father is well known in the low media circles and we're focused on him and he packed up and he left. He went to Montana and he just barely skated outta here d copy. Kathy was zero evidence, absolutely nothing. I became interested in him because he was extra to them. The rates are given polygraph, which he flunked. Well then, in June Thursday, first attack first known, attacked by these fair rapist. Nobody connected it. And we go along until the following October, when I got in and then the kind of picked up,
there's probably a suit another serial rapist going. I knew it wasn't the same guy and I think it was in absolutely cell number seven assault. In November I told Lieutenant Route be executive officer in D, going any kind of spread. The word pretty soon just but everybody in both departments, county and city were saying well through the same guy until you're there. Now same size, nothing about a mistake. Remember along the line. Somebody I figured it out and also we forgot about the thirty, very racist and start focusing on this e area rapist. Now, let's talk about the October fifth one thousand nine hundred and seventy six assault, because it's very telling, because it sets up his ammo and that's courses factitious ammo that you're able to make the connections, especially you earlier on than anyone else, so tell us about Jed Cooper, she's a nurse and again tell us about what
again, you're, always trying to look for some kind of connections between a victim, but in this first one you get all to gather the information and she's a nurse and are's you reserve lieutenant and there was crank phone calls will tell us a little bit about before. We do the exact assault itself a bit about what happened before hand which again going to be important. In this story. She shoot her husband came home one day found it somebody been in her house after exactly how now I just read report the other day, and there is some juice where they didn't belong to them and they last so, and he called Sheriff Department I think somebody figured out the bad guy came in through the bedroom window, which is back in the house for little boys reviews about three hundred so JANET. Her husband did the Investigation early. They would lower the fancy, there's a perfield behind their house and they walked across it and they found the black socks belong to your husband
we use it for a globe, I'm sure. Well, then they go home Aspx, a week later, the guy comes in and she's, and then I got there and Patrolman Bin they've done it with the color neighborhood canvas. He walked around talk to all the neighbors and I only talked to a few of them that time, and then we start putting everything together and what I figured out real fast. This guy knew that area better than the neighbors did several people it picked. I thought somebody was in the house, couldn't be sure, or somebody was and they might have taken. Some Julian left somebody elses jewelry, they weren't really sure and they were getting hang up phone calls just like Jan gotta couple, whatever they threatened her husband and then they stop, then she's assaulted and then, when the guy Mediascape after the assault, went across the same field, a little short cultural broke. Your health is houses on the westside side. It parked in front
in the witnesses saw the car to certain time. What boil down to was he had the timing. Perfect, his car was They just have to see it because he brought up garbage, can earlier that day and then he left before they came out to go to work is when he came out. The car was gone. He had it right that I was convinced right then, to this guy. Somehow I'd pick that neighborhood any any pretty focused on Jan. Office serial, rapist or not, but having just within weeks, spanish something like that don't mind what he says is that this is part of his pack and, as we see, what we will see is that he He tells her you know shut up. All I want is your money. I won't hurt you. I have a nice and lays the knife blade against her body, just slow the. I guess and then he has shoelaces and very, very tight and the knot uses very interesting too. You can tell
about this investigation. If you could about the in a was very unusual is called the diamond knot used a nautical or or with This is so in decoration yeah. Yeah it is. He didn't use every time. Sometimes he is true three times or not. I couldn't tell what the other fifty I detect at Hickam CSI. Now they looked up in books and figured out what they were, but he brought the shoe strings with him. I'm really really tight. I mean tight. Her hands are turning black and it Surely she has been offered hands their risk, for I don't know half time I got there and Richfield discolored referral red rid she said shut up quotes. He did it. Fifty times had asked question to tell her to shut up getting really mad when he first came, and he told you know, don't worry, I just want your money and all that and once did he know she can't get up and beat him up, she's all tide. Then it goes ahead and starts his threats.
Compare rice with her as much as he can and he established a pattern right there that occurs literally every crisis he heads in the kitchen and get something to eat. I don't know anything about psychology, but he sure gotta hang up 'cause. He asked eat every time yeah. Now he he gags her and blindfolds are as well and then you can tell us what he says and again part of his mo. That continues, as regard his penis. Already like what he says. They put Louis changes. The wording extra same exact wording right now. I can't man for sure, but he puts lotion on himself and many tells you know play with Let me do this or I'm going to kill you or spend that kind of stuff and go ahead and play with it. Sometimes he makes it makes your college penis various names. If we can try to make it, but I guess he considers dirty he doesn't every victim and any also says to her as well that he had seen
here at the officers club at the Mcclellan AIR Force Base which, where her husband or captain husband, was stationed, and okay, yes, and so There was an accidental cut, then he may with this knife and again part of this is tip with him, but you think it was initial. Your initial thought about that accidental cut. She told me he did accidentally. I looked at that and which somehow we figured out, he had a survey did nightblade and it was kind of like a now. Maybe it's white or something like somebody here with sandpaper and nobody did an axe. Cut he scraped it I told her. Then I said I don't think there was actually. I think he really wanted to
the unit controlling it and I still think that that's just a gut reaction, I don't have any real facts to go on it and she disputed is the time. In fact, I had lunch with her here a few months ago and she still thinks it should actually, but I don't and what did you? What did you think you were? You were dealing with when needed, and you saw that well, I always I have a total of two courses through college course in psychology. I don't really know what I'm talking about later on. We start coming because social psychologists were consulted on this and it came up with all these terms about. Sexual, something or other. I don't know independent reports and I kind of think he the real patriot are deep, deep anger, which I guess is hatred towards women and women, mostly making them too, but mostly mostly women, and I also figured this guy was a web and they could probably with his bud. To get a free, fair, shot, adding later on? That turns out with some of the girls said, give me appear,
yes, I can take it. But here now what was the sorry. What was the description of the perpetrator, the height and relative weight and age? She put him at five. Nine and I think she said he's around thirty or little older. What I noticed in the vast majority, the victims I find it interesting they always put. His age typically would put his age a little older than himself. They didn't know it didn't begin to say he's pretty fiber forty some would say. Oh, he was one thousand eight hundred and twenty years old. That kind of thing you just did and then the height, I would say he was probably five foot. Nine. The height estimates vary about five foot, six or seven to six foot or more this some of the victims had reference points. This particular case the Ansar husband standing in the hallway were pre. She first saw this guy he's five foot ten. She looked at that and she took it five nine and I talk Couple other said he's he's no more than fifty nine.
Who one the circuit five seven. I talk to you so I'm walking out by the backyard one night, and then he kept saying this guys know taller not as tall is that fence. I don't know why it's saying that so he's about five foot, nine hundred five thousand and sixty five pounds, and apparently he could clear fits in like we can call building speakers go right over there. Did you think this was a of opportunity, not enough for a second And why is that? We know the areas so well, and good old houses before he was right there in her backyard or probably in the house waiting for husband left. He left pics or whatever it was, and as soon as he was gone, that cards kind of the car was gone, that guy was out of the bedroom and into jazz bedroom and No scaring her little boy after death were there other phone calls made to neighbors. I know there was a phone
I made to her, but with their phone calls made to neighbors crank calls at all. Yes, there's two of interesting, now you say early on over the next or the first five months of the investigation. You think that in in terms of the planning of this rapist that it's not extensive, but then you say that suddenly that he's It seems to be put in a lot more pre plan. Into that. Tell us a little bit of why you thought that, and what made you think that well, is it all comes together. You know we start I knew you could see that he planned this. When there's no question my mind about that, and then we start talking to the first to go back, and I had to find the other reports. Nobody talked about it There's no system going on at office? We can spread the word and I figured out there. Was there been more time pretty sure it was him and some of the stuff. I could research that I couldn't do it we started getting it done. I started noticing certain patterns
exactly. Do you notice more patterns just recently, just in the last few weeks, but this guy would pick a neighborhood naturally have your escape routes, your thoroughfare somewhere nearby, he preferred Greenbelt area around restaurant over Party Sacramento. You have a lot of a. Pictures that are now lying to seem that he just walked down those things. He like the school nearby. Strawberry and so forth and big thing between him and if I see your ransacker is the state close to the shrubs and if they walked across front yard, just the up against the shrubs he wouldn't stay out in the middle like that ordinary then sometimes he was seen just walking down the street. We think it was a bit although but he's doing this, and then this way figured out How are his gravy selected victims He would figure out where they're living and he would go there. He had proud that area He was that he fixed up alternate picked.
Somebody tonight come back in no month two months and somebody else anyway, come back that area the only time he stayed within evening. The reasonable area in one area was from Rancho Cordova and I didn't know at the time, but he already had two assaults over there and they were probably oh. I thought fuck, my head I'd, say: seventy blocks apart, maybe a little more but all these places had they had Billy with using your house. Some didn't have some found screens off. Sometimes find a door open and they would very often find something in house had been moved. They thought somebody was here, but couldn't be certain, but they find something was moved or did find some Julie. There wasn't there, so there was gone, they find a gun was unloaded so he please move around later on much later he stay coming in early and leaving stuff like a coil, a rope under the cushion he wasn't doing that that we know of, but I was working the case they didn't start until he was over in Contra Costa County.
Before we get too far into this. We've got to explain this anyway, that police at this time occasions and thing like serial rape and serial homicide. So tell us what the state The Sacramento sheriff's department was in terms of you, said it was in the midst of a and evolution in terms of allergy and in terms of organization so tell us about what state it was in in practical terms, when I got there, I was in my 20s. I was fresh out of college, and there's lot is all guys at least to hire them for their strength, drinks. I guess they figured their eyes getting in fights well and he had to put it delta area scrolls down far Stockton. I guess head allowed to go there for the undersheriff could take adeptly with he stayed out of there from the thing
probably early it corrupt, as you could get. Somebody went down there, but then they start changing in the late 50s for a lot of this, something told by the guys that were there at the time and then this call John Mystery Big John nearby free to him. He took over and he started changing things around a little bit, but we're still the same way. If somebody case came in find the nearest guy unless they knew somebody knew how to handle it just find the nearest kind. So you got the short straw, take it and go, and there was no real official training or anything else. In fact, the detective or patrol commander could go to. Hardship there all night. She was neat, I'm getting wait, low, came and took over immediately start changing the entire structure to match up the one in a book by old, W, Wilson's old, textbook being cheap deputies, that kind of stuff, and he was doing really good, but there was, that internal non fizzy, oh now, material system going on switch
case investigation. You worked. It river which might come back and he gets what they did today. You talk about. It's it's got nobody, does it say more about it, and so when that started back Little bit. Give you an idea when I first got that office first time in detecting seventy two I got into the department armory, they had two Thompson. Submachine guns, so I started looking and I just started talking to people that did you hear about. In cases like this, they say yes also. It was something like that, so I go talk to them that sucks charger Bevans and sexy cruiser had both had a case Christmas case. The guy New Ford we're just going to is going to assault weapons. He probably didn't. It was probably a crime of opportunity we figured out starting in a later, that whole area right in their head and just saturating prowler calls and they're also always
described teenager or early 20s, every time that we have the two sisters who run into this guy and one co op right, some water is subdued quite easily in the other. Teenager doesn't cooperate, exactly what this guy doesn't want to do and fights and so we see the first, not the first but various tab. His mo of speaking through clenched teeth, tell us a little bit about what he does with two girls that obviously, if it's what he does next, but tell us the things that are established there in terms of MO He goes in there any speak nfinity and he wakes the one up and she can't turn over. He always whispers through clenched teeth. You don't look at me truck turn around I'm going to cut you open and kill you or something like that, and then he ties you're up, super Titan character.
He goes into the house parts of the house and he'll ransack a little bit and come back every two minutes. He comes in to check on his victims. In this case, I think he checked on her once are twice. Then he went next door and he woke up her sister. Her sister is going to whip she. She came out a bit First thing chase her down the hallway and probably should faced him down. She could have beat. So they went down home and he stopped when he finally got her all tide up. He said the assault into one. Sister, but not the other one at all. During this time, he's be saying you know like the first. Sure that when he didn't salt, goodnight me you to prom or something about the promise, her prompting land right there on on your counter in there he goes in and out and ransacked the house and most of these crimes. You can hear him put something in a paper bag is taking it out. We never figured out what he was doing that paper bag leader bag change into something else is cloth bag in their canvas bag out, keep changing all the time, but when they got
when he came in to investigate and actually girls got loose to Phillip of wires. Coming to the house, he put a flower pot are something earlier and got up tried to cut him and what he did is he took off the insulation. We all thought it first. Trace clubs, I thought leader naughty. Is it he's using alligator clips? He's tap it in the telephone lines, so he can listen in any conversation going on. Who knows when he did, that could have been that night. I don't know I was asking about the doctors. Are these girls had a doctor under their father was a cardiac surgeon. So I think that was the fourth Salt was actually no, it wasn't before the fifth. What I knew him at that two of the victors, like form two, is addictive. They have some sort of connection with the medical yeah. They were the they were the second one, that's what it was yeah now part of the other thing
part of this ammo to it another strange thing: not only does he go into the kitchen to eat and brand sax, churches all over their apart other their homes, then returns You say every few minutes to make sure that there's all tied up very, very tight. He also star drinking Coors beer, bringing a couple at least two Coors beer with him almost every scene, but not all of them you'll find two, sometimes three cans of some beverage. Did he drink and sometimes he brings it with him and Lee their owners in assault where the guy see by himself, these half naked no bags and after the they find. I think it was two beer cans side that house. Yes, I do You know that we never explained that one away either what he does sorry go ahead. No sorry, the Part of it is to is that through all of these, as will the audience will see, is that there is a,
description of a homemade mask will tell us about this. Mask what it made look like for those just listening Every mass is different, the the first one I think on the in Januar talking about damn time here, but this thing was big cost? When I say it had so many of 'em. On one of them. He the here is best Did you have a nylon stocking ask. Of course, all kinds of those did hands likes, homemade mask made out of cloth, brush cut cloth, video or we cut the holes for the eyes and the mouth disease is the ice, And I mean what they were now. I gotta thing right here might have it on it. Well, that's say that they were not conventional mass. Again, you say one was a welder mass, so there was some sort of variance in all of the mask. It seemed in terms of color and description,
but it wasn't one particular type mass used all the time now everyone it's different. It's like he saved the soup. Some place now, but he still has all of them, so they were never the same summer ski mask, they would just normal, but many of them were not now. What What was the part of Maine was there The connection that you saw at that time about home homes for sale or under construction in area there was the first. Yeah- I noticed I don't know. Why did the first thing I saw when he pulled up a friend, James House across the street. Here in like real estate find century twenty one. They were all over speed in California, the state of California. At that time I thought it was loud was crowded. I figured out later then, The towns, including pudding San Francisco, were really just big cow towns, but every place every victim in Sacramento nears. I configure
most, if not all outside his second, like Contra Costa County. This place is every one of 'em. Would you, salt occured was had just been sold. Just read it for sale or next door or right across street from one to one is just built. Every Was that way when you could out of southern California? I think it continues, but I don't have enough information to firm that and the people have invested. Good ones up here when he, when he moved out, they didn't What about is imoti plasters questions they started looking and the real estate and the telephone were two things that turned up again and again and again and at first devices they're all over. Well, they work pretty sure they phased out really was a connection there. Jans House that was across tree was one for sale, the one on the Marlboro, the two sisters, I'm not sure, 'cause. I didn't go up there and look and then the one where the
the girls assaulted in her garage. I don't know, could I bring you back that everybody up your head places for sale at this time? the victim. I think Christy, was the one where there was a for sale sign across the street. What street they have that money. I can't I can't give you that I think you have much anyway yeah they they all did Christy, I think what you're talking about is when I went over There- and I want- I saw the house for sure I walked inside and there's a laundry room and you can sit right there in the dust and see the guys prints or cigarette butts, and I straight across street. You can watch the house where she was living at the time. Now this time too, I mean You really don't talk about the pressure to make any kinds of arrested. This is the first time I guess maybe that's more fictional than then you know the rule, but you do talk about cop
cats in that potential, and that must be a frightening possibile did that somebody's copying? The killer that you can for the serial rapist that you can't catch at It seems that things are escalating, so tell us about how one suspect surfaces, name Dorcas and why Dork the girls better, she wakes up. There's a guy standing, half naked by the door. He and after those intention is- and see them all after believe she can't get Tice yesterday there for too hard before friend, Pfizer skews me and then, while he's this getting offers there the neighbor walked into the house and says he thinks he. Been burglarized use. Eighty thousand children's health is not his well. The the officers mistaken report had no clue what to ask about these credit questions, because she was like the first or second one. I think first one
Therefore, he didn't know what to ask so Door Kiskis wanted around and trying those real look at the entire crime scene. Finally, that the officer had to kick him out of the house and it turns out door custers right straight across the behind her backyard. You can lookout his window and there's no fancy. Look at it. Windows like straight into her bedroom window because she never kept it covered. She just had a big plant and thought that too heavy just good so I mean he introduced himself, made up a story to the cop couldn't believe you're pretty fit the physical course sitting right there. What nobody want to look for at that time, was the shoes I think she said he had squared to a black patent. Leather shoes, outerwear those lesser threat, sucks or something, and nobody bothered look at their guys feet to see what his shoes he's wearing Christy pride would have changed. But that's how he became a suspect later on. We had a dog track in the suspect from a crime.
Being in this darkest guy who standing right to your daughter or attention. To finally put him: and I think got DNA. So this there's no question now. You talk but part of me you're, going to say about DNA in its now what stated in a we might as well talk about that and obviously for those people. What was a state dna at that time didn't exist, for as we do yeah in fact it come out and join. It was in the very early 90s. I think it was Oregon, maybe just before He was in the 80s, it came out yeah. It was really difficult and really expensive. What we were using. So they had nothing. We had no evidence. What we do is give somebody to chewing a piece of cars. And they would test to see a favor. Secrete are non secretor certain people, their body fluids, do not screech blood type, so we had some five thousand
prospects will be stopped working here. Southern California, at seven thousand and most of them were eliminate on the screen, are non script status. Well, since then, it's been found out that you can be both guy was in court for rape. And taken it to scene was sick reader, I think been ITALY around, yeah this guy, they test this live and he was the opposite. So defenseless dropping the taste of let's try from folks they did. They got doctors, examples of both and turns out. He is both. The secrete are not repeated, so it's five thousand suspects to write back on the list. Wow are you going to who they are? Not just somebody destroyed all the records now talking about connecting dots and this progress is we have a ten year old, named TED and his There are Jenny and instead
two hundred and thirty in the morning and there's a mass man trying to pry at the door and her son sees this runs to get her her mother, his mother, pardon me and she decides to call the operator- I guess weirdly enough there's no answer and she tries to call her neighbor Soto, what happens in this particular case actually goes through. Here she tried calling the sheriff's department in about then this guy is right around the corner confronting her. You know them ask if you can ask your head ski mask, unless you're now anyway, he was gritting his teeth. Yet all I want, is your money? Don't be hurt, cooperate, shut that dog up I'll, go out here and stab that little boy in the back bedroom little boys little girl. So we know he never been in that house before and then you type ten year old, up, that right there next to the lamp was turned on and the kids pretty calm use. Tell me says: Guy had black hair blue eyes and hippie black hair in his arms and legs to the standard area had a shirt and short Nothing else on anyway,
weather in his living room and he he spends quite a bit of time assaulting her and there she's pregnant by the way but when that, when the recall for the guy with a tracking dog, came it was the dog going backwards, what he did this lady's house, We had to go with stamps, had to go back out to the car in front of their name did he went to the neighbors back door for backyard window it over and back? the big field, the field was more, in the field he was supposed to be a freeway and then Governor Jerry Brown make a moonbeam didn't close down the freeway and he sold it to real estate developers. All new houses were going in there, this guy, driven in parked his car back here in Charlotte, like an American made car and according to the tracks, without it probably was, and market, Kilroe, incense, first to that neighbors back window or up to the car in her front walkthrough
right over to this lady's house, the people next door was a doctor and his wife and beer out of town unexpectedly. I personally think that's where he was headed. Please, like I think I said in the book he stressed these occasions, so he just went shopping next door. You salted her when he the salted here somewhere along- right and the Y incision just buy in autopsies on her body Is that just something little hands here in there? You can go off in any direction. You want What what he doing, what he didn't know. What's interesting to is you find a bent spoon exact, here. The victim found it under there so for the next, English is cleaning. There was a dinner spoon people and I guess I I think I forgot this bit right now. It wasn't a marker on it she gave it to Carol daily. Who gave it to me and then I'm trying to figure out all
this thing down, but then I put a bolo people look out, for description? We had it was like the next day. Maybe two days later, the segmental PD officer was awesome. Kind of called spotted this guy. I think I called him art pinkton in there he resting perception, and he had a letter, Well, she got into it and he was a rock. Psychiatric workers, paying a high speed, rooster, hello. Six. I personally still think did that assault, because that's no way to prove it no way at all. So we tracked him down. It turns out. He was a mentally disordered, disappointed sex offender getting one thousand and forty dollars a month. Tax free, which is, I was pretty good, he's making more. We words matter fact yes
for series rapes in Sacramento in the sixty eight. I think it was his sister one of 'em called Deppe said I notice the guy come over and look at this toolbox when they looked at toolbox, definitor, rusty tools and there really rusty too- and she told me the story that he in one of the guy- and I didn't name the other guy who was they decided it was in the 60s. They were going to murder a woman just for fun. And he had a loaded rifle his waiting around a building or something for her to come by, and she just wanted reasons. He didn't do it. So he didn't go back and try again this guy, but he eventually killed his brother with the arrow through the neck and he's in Atascadero. I guess now this art pinked and you think you have a pretty good suspect at that time. But given that you sorry, if it was here, doing real evidence now, so you
What you're saying is that you're looking for this east area rapist- I don't know if it's he's been named as such as yet, but then you this really good victim. You have the bent spoon, you have seems like some kind of murder toolkit here now the spy, looking at a tool box the sister directed you too, and his and his on family, saying that yeah, I think, cable or sister saying he's capable of something like this. What was it about? What any deviant. Any change. From the mo from these previous actual assaults. Yeah there There is no real comparison to the two album at all, but he was nothing would be to for him and all the other ones it's my summer, something he just keep going dear did the two is just like he's, oblivious he's totally focused. That's where he's going to go psychological cake there. I don't know, but that was the only real that India tearing up towels to Gagan Blindfold, because my
investigating him. I physically put him within two blocks up rapes in San Diego has the bite the and they were older women. Fifty and sixty older and he ripped up towels in a blindfolded and tighten gag and all that kind of stuff. That was all the same. There's only so many ways you can do these crimes, but I know he did those San Diego could never connect him to him, but he was down everything I put in a relatively gasser now this woman had. The plan- I guess, with her husband and her family, to move to Danville, and you say that Danville how far away is Danville is from from here, but also so at the same time, you so throw in that in nineteen. Ninety one for Twenty two Jenny receive the call and she thought the record. As the voice is the same person saying You know who this is, and you also put in there that Crime seem to move for the purpose.
Seems to move the Danville shortly after as well, he does she he was in the process of moving already. Her husband worked for the company and he was out of town came over to get her. We have few days, they were gone and the This was in November of seventy six and I think it wasn't until really early in seventy seven, he started striking. And real and and other areas back over there outside of Sacramento. Bouncing around all the pre spend a night at the FBI said ninety two, but probably ninety one, got the phone call that mass office net basically I just got this course. I called her back this year with him, she was sure, as hell now tell us about further investigation of art. Painting, because it's very interesting he must have thought this was a very viable suspect. So tell us about the full extent of how much
I thought he might be a viable suspect and and how you investigated him every everybody thought he was the bad guy and we checked everywhere. We try to check his medical records. We couldn't get great military because website office special investigations for the air force, never did tell us much and we finally put two officers on his mother's house where he was staying and I think after two or three assaults when we knew where he was and if I just dropped into this now every bitch really attacked when he killed his brother got his dna and they tried to confirm it and yeah. He was not the stary rates, But they are out there following midway in the world today, look up information on him.
In fact they laughed because says that it that the guy best buy said no, it's gotta be him, but it wasn't right now, in November, one thousand, nine hundred and seventy six is the official creation of a task force with lieutenant route an sergeant Bevans captain stem so tell us about this, creates the task force and and how involved, are you and and how committed are? Is everyone on this group? To the same? I ology that it's sort theory on about the perpetrator, well after the the one with it. Year old kids saw the suspect sitting in the patio talking to my two partners that they sergeant Urban Cheryl Daily, and I say we have this series. They disagreed my supply list off the points Bagri I came in
totally bitterroot I'd work for him and seventy two. I should we got into the rapist out here. So I told him he didn't even argue me turn right around the back notified all the top level people down there, and then he came in a few days later and tell me that the other task for sides at Devons. I wasn't very friendly with fourth floor by the way, that's where all the console state Evans was going to be, there lead vestigator. He was complete the task force commander, who will need to work with him down in seven thousand two hundred and ninety Seventy two policy that he picked up somewhere else, if you think it a good detective, doesn't need to sign chase to go out, you know prevent crime I was supposed to go out to the sea do the crime figure, what I like them, and everybody else and then work backwards, trying to figure how do they pick this guy here and what's going on around here, and I tried doing neighbor campuses on my own,
this spring about particulars regular with a whole lot of. He did not come up with twenty other directions. I didn't expect it to be a rose and would like the cool group, the tonight these three streets and I need these five expertise. Had five officers in Rancho Cordova with the guy already had four times, and your whole job was to wander around on foot at night, No crime occurred while they were there. I should put him up there and he argued with me finally give me one what you gonna do with the one guy. So I said over your place called Thornwood Street, where we were dissipating another strike there and we set him up over there. That night he hit on Berlin Deal one of the three streets. I in fact, when I gave a briefing patrol officers. Also chair set up with finger. Most of these x body hit had, I know, I was going on in that neighborhood
at that point, I could have told you what else was going to hear, but getting information out of patrol could have. Let me make a report, but they talked about among themselves is just just like trying to interview. Oh, I don't know trying to hold a handful of water and then the after that. I think it was in May seventy seven going through the report's hands on some of them and they came Crosswise talked about illegal entry. Something had been moved. That's all sorry. Looks it Curtis with patrol officer just got assigned to the task force. He went with me going to the house and there's a lot of size. Ninety nine half footprint su right on the wall, four five feet off the ground have smaller window by, but maybe at all he could see just kind of jumped up put his foot and crawled in, but nobody was home. So we looked across.
Street now this street was thinking was Templeton. It parallels Madison main thoroughfare, where there's like one line of houses to clean the two streets and he had other roads running nor s office that Templeton roll one of with Cedar Hurst so we decided okay, we'll check so we go across the corner. Go tag take the second house on the corner, which is what he was picking at the time, and then we find a woman and her young daughter day rather targeted. She was going to be assaulted, anytime. She came home. Many times the doors unlocked its ajar, something in the house is running a big flop. I was taken off of pay, put on the floor and I can't move it is, but hang up phone calls have been coming and they stopped about it. Two weeks before we showed up was website. Other swore back should be explained everything or what we thought was going on, but I know what's going on, he went across the street. Here: the health diagonal going back, there's a
preset nurse about one thousand five hundred and twenty feet high real heavy, fully done effect. Re are cashew footprints and cigarette butts. Everybody was moment house by the way, silly pico to the next door. Neighbor and that's the guy, this is yeah, he was no stall defense. He looked at so we could do earlier. One thousand o'clock at night he saw a guy five foot, nine or less blonde hair walk out of that backyard, neighbors backyard and enter the street needed that way. It went from there there's no question He was gonna solve here. If the other end of that street, a man got a new job. Had his new work schedule laying there on the night stand and he had a gun, he came home in that schedule is gone in, a gun was unloaded for two lieutenants and the detective can go excited. They were talking about that all over the radio. I hereby knew about it It's like I told figures. They said you know this a perfect setup.
Speak up at this house, but this guy's not coming back to the street and he did he never came back. Give him that protect right after that there's not long after he, open stock, which is what an hours drive from Sacramento. He was listening to us on the radio, probably headed CD or whatever hammered away over the use monitor. It was fairly easy to monitor police. Ok. Does he wouldn't shut up everything in the world we had one. CSI guy saw sorry fingerprint Carol City nicer. This gotta be really get discussed. Prints would go through the crime lab. We tell him. The only ideas and they came up with the assistant- was calls for sale. Being a part of human beings been touched by somebody else, and so we had a briefing we totally
patrol officers picture women. There's about through form at the time have you still long time. Don't talk about this over the air and I signed out latest exactly what they did. They just talked it up: storm it was like two days later, Another assault never came off during the entire soul, feed her to people who were doing he did not be smart, don't bring it dumb things we did now there sightings of vehicles and it's it's fascinating to see. The variety of Vehicles that are either team suspicious or people claim to have seen the various colors may vehicles, but we'll talk about that briefly, but also there I have been some Komposit created and I that you have a man composite drawing and also others where
without a mask and an I love that you, you included, included also for anybody that grabs this book. You're going to going to be able to see uh something very, very interesting where you can almost see the one description consistent with one without a mask, so I won't go into that for people that just fine it's fast and I've never seen this is any book before. So it's incredible that you have included this so tell us about the creation of compass it how again he wasn't too successful, but tell us about the relative success or non success of the cops drawings. Change, your first or subjective in the book. There's four of am to look a little. They are in fact the same person and one of the eyewitness They witnessed, who, I think was dj rapist, didn't draw composite Hilton once that you make these couple of changes, you gotta what the guys look like. So I know there's the same person but but all they did really was generate people calling in
and you can get really really close, I got one guy now. It calls me from truck driver and he's convinced, this one guy looks so much like the composite he's got to be the guy really cared for, and he doesn't want his name to be known, but he wants me to drive Four five hour drive to go. Ask this guys for his dna just to share the compiling it can't get this guy to leave me alone. Then call me, from my perspective, We can call him now, but they the only brought it when I She could see the rule of thumb, there's no way you can go by and by you get some guy and here the composite. If got a white flat faced, one of the by Sia Ransacker looks nothing like these theory composites. So do you somebody that looks like that? You I'm done if I say it, 'cause you're not going to be these very rapist. In fact up here, one kind of looked right at him. I didn't know this filter at least go. He said, look like after four. But what I have concluded in this mission came out hello
I mean just the last couple years. The guy probably had a slight touch of relation here. He acne scarred face not heavy. Just a little and I kind of uh ready, reddish complexion he was a jogger is that Lee really take a jump fences like I said he seemed jogging wearing a paratroopers we're all kind of t shirt. I put tennis shoes here, we're all kinds of clothes. We recovered a car that I know it was his and, unfortunately, are absolutely nothing about this 'cause I, but I did the report. Based apartments are car Park for street one night. This is in January seventy seven, and so they cited it from being abandoned. Well, the next night the car is moved down. The street far is it last concerned abandons abandons the impound it the following March
fear cool yard, starting him going through inventory property, 'cause they're going to sell the car at public auction. We found two riot guns with the kind used by cops. The whole bunch of shotgun shells like the cops used. So I think five sets close. All genocide marks, removed and a wig and I thought about that. I vaguely recall just right. I don't remember what else thinks about it and most of this stuff that all but allow there, but I can remember in clear detail, but I cannot remember that, but I did The car was sold in December of seventy six. Cousin sold it Pitbull since died, you're both built, Mattix and he described the guy. He gave a name of Dennis Allen. I think it was they described in one city with sixteen years old. The other said twenty said he was polite and shag type haircut like Blonde five foot, nine hundred and sixty pounds or so pretty much but the year. Is it
drug test, and then you just disappeared. Who could the thing it now? fire counting that car in December of seventy Six- and I got this phone- months later, a young girl's, Sacramento City limits, was going home, down the alley this guy center in a car watching her she got out the car he got out. She left she called him I went outside and I was going to send the couple more times once a different car and it happened again this time she call. Her father came outside the, I got the car and he ran real break. Well, it was a sixty one value. All that stated, white and blue just come into it, I'm certain it's the same cars impounded in January and they call the city police Mickey Mouse look at it did nothing. Actually, the cars can't couple days couple days: late the guys back and then go back anymore. The
I ran it down to a junkyard in Lodi, been scrapped out, help much earlier, and then I chased it somehow to Stockton. They just lost its where it went, so he used the least twice. I know overused license place off of junk cars most the time they came back, not on file, which means give their copied wrong, for registered. For four years. There was lots of reports of primer vehicles to and different different paint job different color paint. So I thought there might be some connection there as well. It seems to be a lot of lot of one, painted or partially painted or primer vehicles that were reported point out. He was, he was driving junkers. They theorized he was from a junkyard or tow company or something, but you know it is possible. I don't like says: I think you or to either, if you start with
when a kid is first seen sixteen or eighteen agency just just gotten military 'cause. He was about one tour of duty and then he started moving away from Sacramento and the milk stuff never showed up again. So that's a possibility. It could be. A military is real in his head. He really didn't. Do it he could have been the into real estate and if I was in the real estate, I would look at escrow or praise but those records are destroyed after seven years. I checked here recently lending lending companies out of the question because at least one which had a brand new houses built and they paid cash, so they didn't get involved in lending so that so that you case in Modesto with a guide gives off the cortex gap, picks up ferret at the airport, United Airlines just landed. You do that. He was with the guys, ordered on. He takes the guy down too. I don't know how they can field guy, so this good. He gets out his crossed, feel
got the sense of what hell is on top of on the other side of the field? I think it was. The next night was a brand new house in the assault down in there in a guy had a satchel that opened the top just like this state. Could he gave it his thirty years old, which doesn't match the others, so it it's really hard to say. I will tell you this, but the descriptions we got once he left rental. Have at least two different people. I don't know if they know each other. You never see more than once had a footprints to find two and three cans get go from a real, firm, athletic body to a pot cut some flab and you can't go for the hard Khalistan till small software, and just it can't be done not matter of weeks and with. Like two or three weeks, so there was more than one after, but that's not unusual either. Now you still great
sorry, you still believe the e area rapist moved, and you said you talk about Stockton, so tell us just for those people not familiar with California dinner southern California, in Central California, tell us where Stockton is and tell us what you believe, the catalyst was for him. We talked about. Maybe this is military stint was over or that possibility was there any catalyst that might have made him run other than, like you say, a close call is it could been so it could be just employment construction from the paint architectural pain, I think with architectural it to cross Sacramento, dim spirit, and I had nothing
We have. I written report the pain of their spirit of Pitbull, something else he's quite people of doing that on purpose, leaving little red herrings here in there that could take him down there. It could be that we were right on top of it, there's a cedar, Hurst and burn daily pics. That way was going to hit the street cedar Hurst we located to this potential victims. He might just figures time to go away and get out of here. I live in sharer about helicopters for years, but they didn't have any of them. Yet right I really don't know he's a tough, my roof one night. You know they go with him, but tell us about that my wife and her first, my house l to drive it It was Rancho Cordova Thank you. This an l shaped park too fast Parker to Football shield, and what have you you want in his Mitchell Junior High and the other was a elementary school grade school. Which one it was. My kids went to the one
and that's exactly what he liked their across the did. You go across our street new version of Tacoma Road kind of parallels that rode hard described over. There was rock piles from the gold dredging days go fishing in the holes over there perfect place to throw the whole town is perfect for probably the kind of area he liked well in sometime, night, my youngest son? He was not quite five. He came in focus up. He was really scared. I remember that I don't know what he told us. Probably just you know here. Ok, he went to sleep next day sold us is he. You ever slept more than four five hours and ninety still doesn't but he's in bed, and he looked at looked out. The window and uh huh things down, and he said he only thought because they told Bob in thing on the top of the cabins wearing. It was popping around the movement caught his eye in the
face is all covered in the guy, took her flashlight and shine across the room once that he was gonna, be somebody told me, lady said he was standing on the roof that that he's moving all around like you wanted to be heard or something so we didn't take her we've just two dead. Sleep is too early that morning against, so the next day would not looked, and there was no nope prince or anything, but I was pretty sharp very intelligently starts. Part. Is he is he did? He did not imagine that at that age of the guide come in and talk to me for the Hilton in the conversation for awhile. So we would have some perfect place for a year like to be, but he was striking over to the w at that Party Cordova that he could have been there very easily question is which it him. I think it was. But you know who I was I don't know. So he was like. I tell you, this if I'd known, he was up here, one or two things would happen that whole. Would Let's move had broken into holes in it. Smiley saturated by every cop in the world will come to come in quietly and know the guy
stepmonster and bring the dog in something he wouldn't come back, something that happens right through. It can't believe it. Yeah crazy. Now, as you illustrate, and you will you demonstrate new show in this book at least connection with you. What starts off burglary, Burglarizing, an peeping tom and prowling, and then sexual assault can lead to an escalation, and so, some things are changing with the e area rapist in terms location, but also parts of the mo we're talking about moving ahead a little bit here, but we're talking about him. Sobbing him talking to himself there's talk to some victims, believe that there that he might have a partner. So tell us a little bit about some of these developments and changes in the Moon M,
how he goes from uh, not fronting people to doesn't confront partners and so again tell us about this escalation. The very first one think what the first one of the first ones he's talk to somebody that you didn't believe it is anybody there He only struck some rooms, there alone, asleep any kids mouth Guard, and then it was It was in seventy seven, two thousand and seventy seven Richdale Street in Orangevale in boyfriend were in there and had her tie him and Master chief this week. If he tide her and went back in time and the boy the boyfriend, and then he took dishes and stacked on his back. I learn it
all the brazilian tree or brazilian t, which it was and then he would you go take in the other room, he's doing the same thing through through gritted teeth. You know, I just want your money, you won't be hurt, Amigos nearly starts talking about both threatening, which had always always done before, this is ransacking every two minutes, or so laid back in checking on people eventually gets the point really starts. Trying to act is not very good with is in there being a few different times more fees. Counting the forcing I hate you Bonnie. I hate you Bonnie. There might have been mommy couldn't be sure that on more than one occasion is heard talking to somebody, the only thing there was one. Which leader where to go said he was in the garage and heard him say put that in the car neighbors said. They heard a little beeping sound in a car door opens when the cops got dear. They checked the license for on in the garage that had a car
you put in there and took it out. He didn't use their car, but I think one best ones over there, and she knew this in the she thought she heard somebody walking out on the patio there was whatever would and it's the one with the guy said disgusting collection and are told the car pulled up. Honk the Horn Emil, Dickinson here to Geico in backyard female suit we're dollar hawks, I think, was twice right in twice a week and it came back up and knocked on the door and knock from the window. Did she heard his voice is what I was female and what had to have been the suspect and then the females car. Little bit later, he was gone too. So it is a couple times there. You can find with this good indications go ahead and accomplish, but there's never any real heart fact.
I would check, but that I would be surprised she didn't have a proper food, the two tearing a personality in the rear reporter. Thank you bye with what about the strike really go up there and killed somebody. Make it more and more scripts talking to himself for acting even more bizarre Coffee Office started talking about Why don't you just psychological terms, dealing with homosexual fear of anger? I find him anywhere else. It was. We also notice he's becoming less and less capable of performing this act and definitely was not very much interested in him any longer. One gallon Did he enjoy Tanger up far more in need anything about six more than one city had no interest in sex at all. It's just kind of what he good, just trying to emulate got my guess if he could cause a lot of pain anyway, he would do it, but not a moments. Hesitation when he went down South
Frisby Billy, assaulted, down. There said he walking back and forth twisted himself either. I gotta kill him and we gotta kill him, but it's kind of killed, would, the social legal lay their lives, so psychotic cutter throat she put out the door even though she's all tide up she went out frozen without back to her in the mean time the bad guy went up front door and taught him brought her back. Then he found the back husband Wisconsin at the back door and couldn't find him. While he was out there, she left the front door again turns out her neighbors sitting upstairs reading a book, facing your house was Nettby agent and he heard some of this leave. You have done it went down there anyway. They they got kind of profile, shot of the guy and chased him he got away but turns out its properties theory, and then those after that. I think, not much later. He murdered two people tremendo, he killed everybody, he rapes, some didn't get better, be the shot, summon bunch and then just blow
seven, the field, a choice. There was this through this. This E area rapist hasn't achieved to kind of fame that the night stock Philip Carlo. Of LOS Angeles and San Francisco fame. But at same time there is this: these murders now. What I was going to ask was: what was the public response. What was the public awareness of this Easter a rapist as an entity and again what was the pub And what was the media response, especially once killing up here? When you started. We didn't release the information 'cause, we knew nothing and we knew people would commander
pause it or something any reporter born Holloway was winding around the office all the time and he came up with it. I'm sure it was him, get the term e area rapist that would have been sometime in November. Seventy six make seventy six, anyway, yeah they put it out. Start calling they want to composite the very first composite he put out was a literal composite. It was composited composites that this compile problem like the guy in any of them, did and then it continued on any start? Moving the Contra Costa, County Stockton, Modesto, and those agencies didn't wanna, hear it. A couple of this flat refused basically just keep the investigators out of their office now. The sneak it out here is not over. Here we're not going to hear about it. Be over there. In that area they became really paranoid. People started really watching the last one that was intended to be assaulted by this guy. He is likely plans just in case, and he woke up and he saw the guy putting on a mask for the band saw him in the
there's about twice as interstellar twice the size of the suspect in practically twisted his head off, but he didn't do it, but he That was the mask comes from. He looked, yeah and get her up close like couple feet in his wife saw. The guy went out the door. She saw him in the light Maximum Hatcher Dallas, but he moved down south. He got so close caught up here, but then they got down there and Evans in route went down here and talk to Chad. Barbour County is not that's not the same guy Benson yeah, it is we're discrete well turns out differences right. Finally, they had It was him, then they had several Santa Barbara Orange County and Ventura. And it wasn't till they get DNA at all of 'em to to serialize convinced that it was the same person. The guy would your height is trail. You try to make it look like. Are you trying
It is imo, someone that didn't work. I guess he didn't wanna fuck dna at the time, but they were pretty paranoid. As far as the media, I have no idea what sets off the early bird rate. Mister hardly ever talked about it. This Terry rapist, it boom made exploded. They were everywhere I don't know why I didn't pick up what I was going to ask It was about the Zodiac killer. Part of it infamy and part of a lot of the serial killers in for me is that they contact the media, can making the media very very involved and you know. Maybe they get interested then was the feature of this great, just killer as well contacting the media at any point. Call the sheriff's office with few times making little wise.
Parks and the height is going to get all that and it turns out it generally did it was him there was a poem written and I know it went to a psychiatrist. I think it back into the loos paper. In a tv ended up the sheriff salvage. It showed up right after I transferred out, and I told recently that it first went to a Psychiatrist whose office is right across the street would have forgot her name, but she had something like care in his poetry, reading, poetry, reading at three rooms of like that she says dead. I tried to fire this. I learned that and then he said these people, so I don't know they don't know for. If It came from the police day, racist type person. I think it shows a high degree of intelligence and I don't know that the ear ever showed any real, strong evidence of intelligence he's cagey. He didn't get caught using your college because he's smart people didn't do what they should
People tried to do what they should and messed it up and it just you know everything is just telling his way, but he was crazy, as he was smart, like a fox would say that The other thing that I will I might as well. We might as well go into it right now, just a little bit, because this is my. I everyone that reads. This book is to turn into an amateur sleuth and we've had a couple of calls tonight and again at the end, I'll talk about men The board that that uh and it's on the message board of a person goes by the handle three hundred and twenty on match in message board at the end Shirley turned me on to your book Richard, and so I just wanted to give him credit for that alert me to this. Your your book and this another book, because I had covered this case somewhat with Larry Crompton, and we we can talk about that at the end to the his book about this part, this case anyway.
But what I was going to say was that one the things that I found fascinating and again. This amateur sleuth that came out in me is that there were reports of any reports that he was speaking through clenched teeth and that some of the victims, Not that he was trying to disguise is either. My voice there was some talk of maybe having a mexican accent or some kind of accent, and then there was often times where it seems he stuttered somewhat or somebody is trying to suppress starter, and I go up with the guy was my best friend when I was a kid and when my friend, who was up are bad stutterer. He would speak, in different voices just fooling around on the telephone, and he would not stutter almost at all. In fact, virtually there be no stutter, when he did a different voice, so I just thought as an amateur sleuth I'd bring up that point for whatever it's worth, but tell us a little bit about what you thought from
his I thought there was something in the clenched teeth and him with this voice, and so many illusions from victims that there was something that used. To do with his voice, most of 'em, almost all of it all of the most said that he he seemed to be trying make his voice sound, deeper and more nervous excited. He got the more high pitched it got. Some said he thought picked up by the starter in a couple of had some profession that, given the opportunity to know office, so studied, which for real and on they were convinced he actually started to stutter a few times in their the mexican accent was picked up through three times. So as a physical description in the guy was at a pot belly, then so he's probably mexican just trying to copy somebody, and now one victim thought he was blue, one thought he was oriental: they had nothing really to base it on.
But essentially he was I gathered. Have this guy was when he went into these places. He was really scared and selfies nervous, but until he got him all secured and they could make do anything that is pretty brave, He's trying to disguise his voice some way, but there was a couple of Amir, but he said he didn't didn't seem to be. We can invoice, he just booked real low and it almost always do french teeth, I think it is The first one I went through with JANET he was doing the same thing, but at one point it kind of start, speaking in a normal voice The only reason I think he did not have a high pitch voice. Let's see, maybe scared was that value that those people solving this. First seventy six of his later impounded. They said he had a I thought he was well modulated voice that Backlick report by wrote in there I was saying at all voice is not type it He was just. He was really trying to came the name didn't list. The bottom shelf,
My concern that was the serial rapist right there when he was so crazy. I don't think he left by in any kind of way, but now this book and compenses crimes occurring from nineteen. Seventy four to nineteen, eighty six uh. But in the spring of two thousand there you are called again tell us when did retire and tell us about the conditions of being called again. What was said and tell us what happens in the year. Two thousand and, of course, has come a long way since then one thousand nine and ninety three march. Twenty four one thousand five hundred and ninety three and I got a call from John, Mcinnis. He had been the year depression. Spokesperson for the department prior to that the name is undersheriff when he called Maine
it became sheriff quit being a funny connected. All these crimes are almost all of 'em. It was developed everyone's route get into the data put together a small task force they want, if I would enjoy it while he had none call reserve means you gotta take a test. Transcript, I wasn't, I was going to do that either forgot about it and if years later, Ruscola, Caesar retired special investigation, federal government called up how you got my number Gyms for a while, eventually, he asked me to write down. I can remember about this stuff, you know. Like anybody else's body cells crystal clear, some isn't, and I ended up typing up about five hundred pages of stuff- have acid particulars. And so I picked up a lot of it in the meantime. Do you want me to help and go out and get some d tables people and do some backgrounds work? I can't get rid
Damn chief and lies: will help link has two thousand and nine. I got back into it, so we start going from there and that led to this this book, he was part of the MRS Board pay any boards. I could It broke down, they went to another one, but I never visited it Recently, some of the stuff you said, I thought well, there's stuff there that is wrong this up and make it. I was going to give it to somebody to give to them a chapter a week or something like that. And eventually metamorphosis into this book, kappa was just I gotta kick. I was thinking author now, knowing how many kids would be real, big, popular book or anything else. I don't fool myself with that, but that's what the whole thing was forward was to help those people. When I called the arm chair it's loose with him, the hand up to since all that
doctor couple and they know more about the reason life stalker than I do. I know about the first two cases 'cause. I was consulted on him and I have the reports at all the rest of his assigned here in there in a page that kind of stuff, but they do they know quite a bit. They got some pretty good theories out there. They got some really wacky and you get some series or no matter what- so I'm going to stick with it. You can disagree with all you want, we're going to speak with that potential that came from yeah. You messaged mention this and I was in correspondence with again his hand three million two hundred and four thousand three hundred and twenty Anna e a r o n s g S, K, DOT, Proboards, P, r, o boards dot com. Again e a r o n S, G S, K, DOT, proboards, dot com so
you're talking about all these people that become sluice in such a fascinating case. In total. You have fifty three sexual assaults and twelve murders attributed to the east area rapist that we know of there's one other sexual self probably did and there's a homicide. I've heard about down south City might have done, and I just don't know. Was there sorry go ahead, there's one sexual assault up here. They tried to lay it on him, and I know it wasn't. It was at art, Bankton, nothing went down if you take one grapes. He was rested for one thousand nine hundred and sixty eight, the location and the victims of the only thing different. The structure I mean the apartment friendly apartment on the sidewalk, the words that everything is exactly the same. And we do that in the next one There's a woman in her 50s or 60s and she walked downstairs, and this guy is chaired up towels and put two blind, and I mean minded
and she saw him and yelled her boyfriend upstairs and then the guy took off running. I had a big stack with adult. I should see if he's in there. I must have been fifty of them in this back and she started through it almost medium. Picked up and it initiatives him there was are painted, but she refused to file a complaint today. I just say hotel the deer you plan to tackle, find him in arresting and let her work it out 'cause he was getting ready to assaulter piece of work. Now you You do a great job of an eye. This show, rather than tell then making conclusions you've left it up tossed to sort. So because, again, I guess it's hard to give conclusions when you don't have the suspect it's hard to say. Yes, when you didn't get down to a very viable suspect other than our painting, which can't be he can't be attribute. All of these crimes. So between the Salia Ransacker
early morning, rapist, early bird rapist and and the crimes that attributed to the e area rapist original night stalker. What is conclusion our conclusions regarding give us a The conclusions- I'm just I'm just dying for that in terms of why even included all of these things is there? Is there an incredible phenomena of serial killer, serial rapist, copycatting tell us about that. This we started in one thousand nine hundred and seventy four I respond. Truecaller somebody broke into a house and they beat a dog to death, and then it is to do the dog. Apart yeah. I seen jumping off the roof of the house to describe the one thousand six hundred and eighteen military fatigues blonde here the ground running, hidden hidden squad. I use a movement already.
See. That is what I saw movie at the seals training and you were right over the fence into cement ditch. If that was him the same as seventeen years old There was four salts in that general area like within a dozen blocks. I guess often a lot of apartment buildings. He could live there in one of 'em decided, assaulted, woman, but she managed to get away. Last time the guy was seen as walking down the street half naked by the way his legs rattan. But his butt was the snow white, so it goes out in the sun. There, We could have had a car bicycle down here, which is normally did and got up. They simply don't know. I mean he, in the military? You could send the right age that just got then he did a step and ask, but it always station that make their, then you, when you follow these through the typical, but I should say the average description is physicals of shame but the ages, eighteen to two thousand three hundred and twenty three being most likely there.
A lot of connections with the military like he assaulted. Somebody with the I think the military uses and trained the airport right. We believe it's on. Yeah he had a little nightstick which cops used to get the village rate, You should never just called the nice biggest twelve inches long and he did SAM bound Brown belt, my kind of stuff you can give those anywhere. Any scene in jump boots a couple times, I think, once his take jasper, blouse pen is blue sector can be sure that any or instance along, so you go along with that. He's described, really is a eighteens early twenty seek possibility, Miller a couple of times you seen with military posture, I saw guy one night that it probably was indian military posture and other times it is kind of slouched, and then he starts moving out of the area and goes away and then the script, the first changing a little bit and you start getting and always there's two or three
cans of soda or something nearby till he goes over to cut your Costa County goes into San Jose Davison, Yellow County. It please stocked in the desperate offers all around the place, but once he leaves here, I should back up. There was five military bases, three in Sacramento to live at hours, drive hours or less You could be in any one of those places plus the very reserved once he leaves here, none of this big Is that anything to do the military here about half of them did with such standable? All of them had something to do with real estate when they were here, or at least this direction, determines him up and the, and now we leave here will connection for the medical like university hospital on medical in the family and kind of thing, but no military again and then he goes down south and you have the real estate and the men there's nothing else down there. So
if I was real estate, I look at lenders would razors, but there's no way to figure out who they were. Insurance companies, one insurance company. It was pretty six hours, long essay, uer taker. Are there long out of business? The guys long gone through the victims down south had Apollos with that company, out of Stockton and we ran that every way in the world and came up with nothing Nothing at all, but I mean and there's no way it touches the parts. I know it no policies anybody up here. They could be just a pure coincidence. So, where you worked, I don't know, but you can any you want look at the details and go from there. Forward backward picking the detailed and check them out- and you straight commit with ideas, Don't think you drove a cab. I don't think you drove a tow truck twice once it came out to more than thirty
after the sax again, this is all I say about this. What he saw and even describe the gate peeking in windows that body with car sales in been best source was on duty. I would like, when he saw these cops parked around. Fourth part we've seen in the last people that the lasted for the shop by the a r for the rest. Into a card has an encounter with it and it really bothered him did not too late are about this rate down there. He would have stopped at carbonies, so they had second car salesman and he's wearing a coat type. Five hundred o'clock in morning hit downtown sac so when he was hurt which crimes it is an opening and closing his bags. He could have been changing clothes. I don't know what he was built. We wanted the time if you just said the housekeeping somewhere, he took, and usually he didn't always take stuff of value, but sometimes you might use it fourteen or one thousand six hundred dollars from one victim. He took time. Rings off another, and sometimes you take stuff with. I am most time he didn't just
We know, what's going on that guys head, the way it all speaking everybody. You got the same information we had in fact one person, email, nieces, will but what I don't know I wrote this is we have yeah. You can draw the same figures we did to get where to go, yeah, that when you talk about the three piece suit is interesting too, that there was reports that there was a suspicious real estate agent. Again not ask questions that were relevant for any. Purchasing real estate or a real estate agent in that wanted to know when their partners will be back when they were looking. He was looking at outside of the house and not looking at the kinds of things that who are interested in real estate? Actually would So I think I know he's talking about after them. Urbandale assault, I got a call from it rigid for South Lake Tahoe Police Department.
Sure the the guy had had up there, he mentioned there is sexual assaults on women, they didn't say sexual every time the officers show up this guy. His security guard hit you up out of breath. I chased most caught him at last. Do you think this case very good for all these, so he gave me his name I was going to check to see if he had been in the tahoes at night ever so I gave it to the sexy Pred Basin and don't forget, let it run the task force. I was reading my own thing. I gave it to him and made a report. But after a root or whoever got it and basin checked into it, What happened was this gal, turns out. She in the house, with three lyndale sought, went down. She sold herself and two people load up, one name Parker and share the guy. Whatever name I gave him in there he's long dead by the way and has been cleared
here. They they showed up at together, bought up said he worked for. I think it was American River Realty, but the one guy she thought that was odd. 'cause they'll keep the same company and the sponge. I didn't make your appointment. Have walked around look around outside, get inside, didn't look at the things prospective or look at It's very interested in arrow schedule of your husband and daughter. Have you tried looking in the eyes she couldn't he just glared at her? He scared real bad racing. Ranted down. He found out the needed one of these guys work for the American River Realty. They worked for American River development or pile of some development company. Long gone I found out where the wind guys We living where his car was, and I couldn't find any more reports. Over here, so go what he did remember. What he did with cricket was lost.
I think I transferred or something I don't know anyway. Modern detectives, Randy Gate down and they illuminated him 'cause? I was looking for and I couldn't find more than a few people in the entire country, with his name and about two or three years ago we had a sister and ex wife. Several Ex wife still living. Second I'd, never contacted or thought out homicide detective, eliminate him already he really was a strange, but I don't know what they did about Parkour people to fight him or not. I think, after what he started in your book. You also talk about. We just mentioned DNA, but at the same time you need to have the evidence preserved need to have the I didn't accessible to be able do dna testing? Tell us first How excited some of the It may be yourself and some other people were once you knew that the advent of dna testing had progressed.
What would had and then tell us about that, the practical aspect of Where is the evidence, what you get that evidence you have to seal it up market. I put your initials: funny. Whatever do you have to refrigerate have to get it to the where it's going to go, we're all thrilled get that kind of stuff and he started trying to get out with our dna from people. You can walk up and ask it mostly will tell you no except there for the following around long. If you can see it, Cortana beat a hamburger in Bakersfield and toss the straw into the garbage. Can you walk over it? If you know you can spot it is. You can grab that. Do that or you always go out and get the garbage can in May, but you don't know who their dna you're getting could be anybody voice three ways: you're going to get them, but down south to the murder reason why stalker did
the brother and one of the victims, 'cause. I think his lawyer, it's pretty well to he spent about one million dollars. He said he got proposition the line pass. So anybody that I think is convicted of a felony has to give up your dna. How many times have resulted in the case being cleared? I don't know, but it's been a few timesdaily once you get the dna, could you got along with filed everywhere and Fdi has two and now and then they tried, sticks and nose in and see if they can help a little bit and then they ran disguise dna. The deer dna through some kind of a program they think it about four hundred hits came back with none, not one. This family does not have their D Leon file anywhere. What about what about DNA garnered from,
evidence of all those again, fifty three sexual assaults and twelve murders was that into Codis or Codex an with there. Any obviously There was no results, but was there some anticipation that that might work if they got a dna from anything that goes into the files of the soldiers, there use automatic checking, is my understanding. The last step is being developed as I left. It's automatic call back checked and everybody's got their fingers crosses. It does turn out from time to time they can't somebody with it in this this guy. I think these very rapists is been sixty, seven and and the three years old hobbies could be wrong very much alive is very much around is very much monitoring these boards anything else. You can find it feeds's eagle, which is one of the things that probably by writing this book, he's there he's not dead. I don't think he's handicapped either. I talked about how pick up stances
address Lewis, is house indicate very much that the year was messing around over there for awhile and a tight in with his contact of a suspect that we're investigating and as soon as we got there suspects dna and eliminate him all this stuff stopped. Gotta, be a connection error test set he's not really cooperating so we know we went school that I got a whole list of their names they're in one down he's a doctor now I don't know where the others are. Some credit. So quick, I believe there are still leads there still in investigative routes to First pursue you still have some hope with this. Don't you absolutely yeah and everything else play they come in contact with the guy recently
for the right areas and his brothers- I don't he's the guy, but he could give a lot of information that can lead us to where we want to go. And uh this is for whole bunch of place to go to if it's a far from a cold case at anybody that wants to work this thing by all means: do it you'll find out you can't just not go contacting victims and metric suspects you can avoid. If you think it's, surely him just do what you can and turn it over to the local cup? I think in the book The website mentioned in their email link. Absolutely first could help is Michelle, Mcnamara Pre Naturalist, writing the book about Golden state killer. I think she will be going breast pretty soon. I don't know that for a fact tell us briefly about Larry Crompton's book and how he was involved in this e area. Rapist investigation when the prime
going on inside your clearance light went over. There bears working for quite awhile. He fight the oldest, moreover, out what we did that thing, but for bellas even told me so the guys going to hit about two weeks this monetary over here, and he did two weeks here right over there, but then trump his book came out and think about his. He mixes fact and fiction. It's a very large book? I think it's around five hundred pages. So what happened to Sacramento, he is reported out pretty good said rest of it is just pure speculation. He doesn't know that he had my name on here now anyway, you got it. Heather peony doing a public speech or something which I'm not reading to do and then he goes on from there and he does the same thing. And when I did mine, I put liens or get information develle well firstly, around the second, was involved in stuff. He couldn't possibly know about. I drew that picture of the office and house was happening and so forth and then, in the cases I got same thing, he does
what do in details of the sex act, like I say in there, if you're interested in vicarious excitement, go somewhere else, I'm sorry going to get in all this make somebody described it as not being solution that works for me, but all the information with crawlers record stuff? I've got it all right in there and then I go down original night stalker and I know if I should that or not I put it in here because they tried to lay it out. She wanted continuity at all that stuff, but watch down here. I don't really know, but I do have some down there, so pretty reliable but Trump very now. He calls me with check out for So that was the that was your purpose. You mention that are ready to to to clarify a bunch of things and set the record straight and put all all the available information, and you or the you know you were there person so intimately involved in this, and so you are the guy that can write the definitive book and
and have there been significant All since this book has been released where I could. You know for me, information on from down south, not much up here other people are responding in their contacting the local cops guys like I said that won't get called me when I wish you'd go away, do I can't help you and the I just got an email from him. He developed a suspect. It really sound like the guy that they just got the dna I think it's not him more involving the construction effect, I had one guy for really sounds good and I'd be somewhere. Put on now. I don't know where it is connecting the construction down in southern California.
I'd like to get his dna. Nobody got sons around here, but I don't know if they got the same same father as a strange thing to say, but in fact I don't know how much my book just contribute Active investigation, especially long over here. Please help me a little bit with some information that comes in. Well there's definitely been a little buzz even for this program here and there's a lot of anticipation of this interview. Hopefully we done that. Justice to answer some of the questions for some of these people, but, like you say, some of these people are are very up on these cases and that's. And for these message boards and such interest in this case any again. Why ask for conclusions? What has this case case again? Sorry for this sort of cliche question. But what is this case done? for you. What has it? What is it meant?
for you and it affected? You well It's a you know. I I lived and breathed this thing, twenty four slash, seven practically for that first oh dear waiver, was said much to get a longer nap, even say here, and then it always comes up and over the years people would call me up with Are you can do? I wasn't involved in room my name or something give me some information, actually some questions. So it's never gone away. Like I said, when rush called that figure, I can't get rid of this. Imagine helping women get rid of it, train the book and they put all back together and get a perspective again and now then something that I should have put in there shouldn't put in there, but I just really really want to see this guy caught the people. I worked: the last three years perfect, for you guys rapidly rapidly.
Get through almost those they are the ones who went. He told I guess so I pretty much just stuck somebody kiss this bastard. Let me know who he is when the one paper I want, when they are If I want to be there when they put the handcuffs on. I wanted to test him to see if there are good fit yeah, absolutely yeah, absolutely Thank you very much for coming on and talking about this. If people were to want to come tattoo: do you have a website or facebook or how would they personally contact you Okay, so can I can. Messages come through this program. I mean I do have a blog that they could. Ask questions. I could refer them to you. I could forward them to you. I'd like we've had Apple calls this evening already, I don't have as I, as I told you, a component of the program, but if
they were so inclined. Could I forward messages to you yeah. I have one thing I can add for you, somebody several people get to see what I meant. I said you gave proper behind seventy years old. Seventy, so many people think that these peer rapists today is seventy years or more. The guy saw back here was I don't know how we would like to make a wild guess, I'd, say five thousand and sixty, I doubt very rapist, but I just make it. I just worded wrong he's, definitely was not cold enough to be with here, they're thinking about. If you go back and look at some of those age descriptions but hate after ninety years old today, right guys alive. Do you but you probably contacted, or that was offered some kind of FBI criminal profiling. Over the years
they recommend anyway, any method any technique. That they thought might work to, this guy to resurface on his own or to contact authorities, not I know of I have no doubt if he probably has history on these message. Boards posting or something like that. The one thing I learned about the guy one of the people If that relies on for these I guess if you look at the map in Sacramento, fresh prince of that area and have really roughly Lee, can you start over like wood Parkway that that's just one I was on tell me something around through Cordova in hands where down to a lot Riviera right, the middle of all that from your coil app new coil someone avenues is the Richard San Juan Hospital there's a big area there and he never struck in there, no, probably or anything in there. When I was what other thing I didn't come. We just learned recently detected Clark to homicide Sacramento, taking this out.
I knew the prowled they ' seems like he's always out there, but he might prow area. Play tonight tomorrow. Period be next night see it goes back to windows, assault next Lakers over to D. We did it every night, I don't know, but he didn't try. The same area. Every night- and sometimes he did sometimes he didn't he just here that much continuity, but he did bounce around and I'm pretty sure I know how he picks. Some of his victims incredible. The the work that this must have drove the around a bend and reduced your sleep and and relax it shouldn't have it. I know it's it's just I felt the but just reading the book because again, like everyone becomes a sleuth, so I can imagine the actual. Sleuth yourself, working as for so many years again, that same driving driving you nuts, because obviously you're here and you're, saying
again the must have been many many and sleepless nights, and I- and I hope it's somehow somewhere, you can get That dream come true and I think, would be game for a lot of people, including some of the victims and their loved ones. So it would be a great happy ending to a very, very tragic story. Really and they transferred me out, I wasn't really that upset 'cause. I've done what I could you know blocked a lot of things. We're trying to do another stuff, just had just didn't work and I took I think it was two one slash two months off could have gone back and done it, but I went somewhere else it it's fascinating to sorry go ahead, but I would realize that the safe. I wanted to say for those that are listening to this is the kind of book that I myself really really enjoyed, because it's as a true crime reader there is the formula true crime. There is very
any great writers that do some add some fictional aspects to. Like dialogue that they couldn't course been Thirty two at all lol. The great authors have access to all the players, including the prosecution and even the killer themselves, very fascinating. But this book is for What kind of true crime reader that that well, I've had sing to programs about the actual detectives in the actual investigations and what they have done in they have seen, and what they've experienced in your book is the ultimate in that. Find out exactly how you felt What you did, how other people felt It is a a bygone time where a past time, where technology. Wasn't there intercommunication between department's wasn't there? The id did you understood. Serial killers was, of course, well known at that time, that information was not all about it, so it is a bygone time.
A time where these ray Listen. Killers enjoyed a a some impunity just because of the time and lack of x. Inspired stories, authorities it's a fascinating book, and I want to thank you so much for coming on and talking a little bit about hunting a Psycopath, the e area, rapist original. Now stalker investigation. Thank you very much for coming on detective Richard Shelby. Thank you hope. I do some good Well, I'm sure we'll get some responses and I will forward them to you. I guess otherwise. People should just contact the Sacramento Sheriff's department. Yes, Clark is what we're between homicides. He worked with well very good, very good,
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Transcript generated on 2019-11-05.