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Las Vegas. You are now listening to true murder, the most shocking killers in true crime, history and the authors that have written about him. Gacy Bundy Dahmer, the night stalker Dating K every week. Another fascinating offer talking about the most shocking, an infamous killers into crime history through murder, with your host journalist and other Dan Zawoiski. Getting

during owner appreciation, mother, well qualified returning Grand Cherokee, less he's gonna low mileage lease on select twenty twenty branch. Argue the widow E4 by four models had dealers diaper to nineteen a month for forty two months with three thousand seven, I do assigning Textile ices extra call one. Eighty eight. Ninety five g per details requires new contribution. We surprised or capital on oldest one percent inventory of twenty twenty checking the rainbow models. As of one three. Twenty twenty induce doc curly must invite someone twenty twenty one extra charge for miles over thirty five thousand residency restrictions applied to deliver by two twenty twenty cheap as a register trademark on September, twelve, two thousand and one Michel Harris went missing from a small town in upstate New York. She is now I ve been found in the mystery surrounding her. Disappearance remains for because, after she went missing her wealthy husband, Cow Harris, was arrested and charged with her murder. With neither a body nor a murder, weapon cow was shockingly tried and convicted of a murder. Then new evidence surfaced

His conviction was overturned and a new trial granted, but once again he was convicted and sentenced to twenty five years to life in prison. That conviction to was overturned on appeal. The psycho continued as cow went on trial for the third time. This one ended in a mistrial by the time tat went on trial. The fourth time we shall have been missing for nearly fifteen years. Defence. Investigator David M Beers worked. Macao Harris case from start to finish. His account reign of injustice, walk you through the details in advance of the case. Never before revealed it provides an side. View of the scandalous case backs that you will not find elsewhere, including why he considers cow story, a rain of injustice. The book there were featuring the ceiling is reign of injustice, the cow a story with my special guest journey

as the author and special investigator David and beers, to the programme, and thank you very much for agreeing to this interview day, damn beers thanks for having me I've been looking forward to the interview. Thank you very much love incredible tale. I had not known of this before. This is an amazing tail random injustice. Let's go right as you do in this book. Here too we go New York, an cow Harris and the two hundred. We'll deal wish of city owns and, of course, if said in nine, eleven, two thousand and one so a little bit about Cow Harris. His background. Where are we going New York is specifically tell us if it s a little bit of background as you do in this book. Ok,

Are we going to New York? Is its entire get county? The ark which is in south Central, the Ark just above the Pennsylvania, border lightly, doing the cities of Bingham ten to the east. An Elmira to the West a week. It was just a little village and tobacco we itself is a rather small county population lives only about fifty one thousand people are. There are no cities, so the county seat is right. In a little village of we go, it's kind, That's all right in along the north side of the school in a river just west of the village in the town of Togo and other small Township BAR Cal Harris and his old brother Kevin owned. Two car dealerships, cow owned

Royal, Ford on the south side of the highway and his brother cabin owned and operated oil Chrysler to the north. But can also owned, another loyal, Chevalier dealership up in court when the Ark which is about Forty five minutes north of illegal, say Bennet business for several years. The royal auto group was started by cows, Father Dwight Harris he was pretty popular. Entrepreneurial business style cone entail the county starting many business enterprises before going into the automobile business and then one is, answer They were educated. I will do whatever they yeah. Grow them into the year, automobile dealership business and later

It took over the day to day operation, so that was that kind of set the stage for Us what car was felt tat. I was born and raised in a kind of an upper middle class home what the high school, investing in New York. It is very handsome young man, very talent. The athlete a star lacrosse player. Then he went on to college. I believe he played with crossing colleges well, you studied business and economics and then, like a city, It has grown into the family automobile dealership. He was kind of thrust into the position a little prematurely after his father had a heart attack and if any found himself supervising people who were his parents age so was a little awkward for him

so here, but he had to learn the ropes rather quickly his wife, Michelle She grew up in a kind of a lower middle class neighbourhood. Just just west. Over we go in the little town of Togo She was like four years younger than cow. She went to Tioga high school, and then after high school. She what the more spill college in New York. And then when she, when she finished her education, she went to work, for the oil auto group in illegal and it was there that the cow met Michelle. And they hit it off right away, they like love at first sight, she was gorgeous gonna head turning attractive. Very personable, fun loving agenda, they headed off immediately started dating moved in together.

And then, within about for years, they got married blues one was ninety ninety It was from a lake side ceremony at that, a at a late, some like property, that cow and his father had owned in the town of Spencer. Several else north of illegal, and then then after they got married Kehl bill Michel, a beautiful lakeside home. You have no, you don't million dollar home on the lake, it was then a really remote area. You couldn't even see the house from the road or the road from the house, and it was Hoddan. Fifty acres plus of distant wilderness area. Most of which was all densely wooded. There were few open. The old enough in the lake, of course, in a pond ah, but they are they spent,

Suitable amount of time your entertaining family and friends, Snowmobile. We pay swimming fishing honey big eighty visa and that that was an enjoyable part of their life. Eleven a dot m. Along the way they had they had for children in a relatively short period of time in at the time this that Michel disappeared all this. Child Taylor was only seven and the youngest of four. Theater was only eighteen months. All so you can see how firstly, they were an age at the time, so I can always like the groundwork for a little bit. History on cow and end the shell in and how they met in Vienna. Started down living together and I got married and I

I guess I should also add that the steel trouble started brewing in the marriage at some point in time, in the end, only got worse when Michel discovered that cow was having an affair, but on balance the cow sheep Michel was having an affair as well, and she had started seeing and dating a man for like six months unbeknownst to the cow at the time, and she said but it does going on weekend rendezvous with him in the Poconos there. Are using? Can number calling card to college, other to keep their relationship secret and then at some point her boyfriend.

He felt her head over heels for Michel any he packed his bags use from Philadelphia. He packed his bags wept. His girlfriend Family is job and then moved up to New York and found it. Are met in a job to be there. Michel with with expectations over getting married. Even though that wasn't even have ever since Michel did not have the same expectations so anyway. That kind of sets the stage and little background What was the living arrangement and what was the in terms of the divorce that they, that was imminent. What was where was the state of proceedings at that point tell us the living conditions and where they were whereat he knew about.

He knew she had a job as well at this waiters, newly new job at this as a waitress at this place called lefties, and also you talk about the breast implant. Implants achieved recently gotten as well It's gonna take their ethical January of two thousand and one that Michel filed for divorce, Cal did not take it well, there were long. So far did the arguments which got rather nasty primes according to some. Witnesses who overheard those arguments. But but none of that none of the witnesses that ever noticed anything physical. It was verbal obligations back one of their adult baby sitter saw. You have described some of the arguments and in and said that Michel could hold their own ends.

He could be as verbal abuse of the cow ass. He was to her in and other people said similar things, but at some point in time actually, I think, was early March or April two thousand one. Michelle decided to take a job as a waitress at a somewhat lower class according to some witnesses. I thought there was no. She went for a from a cup to seek up twenty minutes dry for her to get the work and she was telling families friends that the reason she took the job was because Cal had cut her laugh financially, which which turned out to be not true. You know that the records later indicated the cow was paying her like four hundred dollars a week

She was still giving her a dealership car to use free free gas. The time she needed at the dealership. And we laid it. We later learned that the real reason she took the job wasn't because she, the money. Is Because she didn't want to go home, wanna, be home in argue with cow, so she wanted to distance herself from him plus have more time to socialize with her new boyfriend Then, somewhere along the line, I'm not sure, the exact timeframe, but but after she had already had four children cheek. She went out in and had a breast implant augmentation job done in. According to some MRS I I talked was. No. She went for more from a cup to us,

and only la needs to make fun of her a little bit in conversation, but probably them. Bizarre thing about that was that, after she did that it became kind of talk of the town and she was actually wanting it now and at times she would she would flasher rests in from another man in public that the dealerships four in a bar. Fact one one witness I talk to her we see her, do it in front of a guy. Get up at a bar down and Waverley after after she gonna working. What do this bar sheet? No, she flashed her chest and He remembered scolding over that telling her that she was just encouraging these creeps, but that didn't stop her

It went as far as your some of these men that she had left her breast to without also asked her if they could, feel what they were like. They never felt. The implants before Let him do it, and I m that was pretty bizarre, but Michel was just very trust. I think she saw all of this is just a fun, loving way of getting attention and then How are things she realised that He was making herself and vulnerable too, are to what these guys, but it had mind now tell us who a barbed theories and her rule in the story so far not again Way by a barbed there was was tell Michel's adult baby sitter birthday

It was probably in Earl, only met fifty's. Sweet one, lady who gray hair I Met her and interviewed her early in the investigation and That's when I learned about the arguments that she'd overheard and how they get nasty and vulgar at times and she'd workforce. Michel for several years. The baby sit An enduring housecleaning laundry that type of thing and arm. Barks there, who first discovered Michel's me at the end of all the Harris Drive, wave on the morning that she was reported missing back, just a little better. The night before.

Ok I'll come home from work around six thirty from his office in Portland, usually works in court on Tuesdays And I hit call barb ahead of time around five thirty set up, I'm wrap up here, I'll be home. In about an hour. He was and besides he got home, she laughed and Kehl playfully. It's been while, but the school, my so put for to bed about eight o clock. And then he worked in his office for a while and then know what the bet himself around ten ten thirty And then, when he got up in the morning, he showered and got dressed for work and went downstairs, assuming that Michel would be they're getting the kids up and ready for school Just prior to that, you would mention what the living arrangements were. They were still living in the same marital home while the horse was pending. But Michel was sleeping

in the family. Room downstairs in Kehl was sleeping in the bedroom upstairs so so during that period of time and one which would Michel came home from work, she would sleep in the family room, then she would get up in the care of her mother responsibilities regard. The children getting them ready for school, but when girl went down the stairs that morning on the morning of the twelve, she wasn't there and in the end picked out in the gradual or Van was not there, so it At that time it he knew she had a boyfriend, and is she here? He just assumed that she was still with him in and running late, but because he wanted to stay on schedule and get to work on time and get the kids to school on time and he needed some help. So he called bar there. She wasn't scared

come over to later, but anyway he called barbed. They are like a seven in the morning and unexplained that machine and come home so that they are agreed come over and give me a hand. So few minutes later she she leaves Your house comes over and when she arrived at the end of the irish driveway, which was I mentioned earlier. You can't see from the House right right boys, like a quarter quarter mile long anyway, she slots Michel's ban. Part right in the nose of the driveway, so she stopped gets out through Michel's man, but the door was unlocked. The key was in the ignition Sophie. She opens up drivers door looks around and then she goes in the back, lift up the tailgate looking around no sign of Michel, so she gets back

can occur in and drives into the house watch in an inner chief gal he's dressed ready for work, and she said you know, Is- is Michel Hotel says as Michel home and it us. No, I told you, she did come home. Well, I just saw Van at the end of the driveway, so they both start speculating as to what might have happened. You know, did she stopped there in in part. The current and go out with somebody out, or did she just wander off, They really really did know, so you might find the council Well, we'd better go get it better, go get her van, so he drives Bob there. After the end of the driveway they they both looked let me again and then barbed, they are drives Michel's man back into the house and parks when the gradual she normally would.

And then there were looking through the van took book for the kids but bags and that everything to get him ready for school, ok I'll make the comment about messy the landlord, and he said that you know we better get this down to the dealership. Where I can get a service which is overdue and and and and pointed out, the mass at the time Our fear about thousands of MILAN usual under the circumstances, but but they didn't do that they didn't do that. Girl took up the three older kids in his truck and took him to a we go in and out of the school, and then he went to forget the dealership. There only a couple minutes apart by their state with the youngest went home. In the meantime, but their gets a telephone call from

Michel's best threatened Nicky Nicky Burdick, looking for Michel well, ah Bob air explains the whole story. Nicky, said the well she spot. I have an appointment with our attorney career but a column, so she did. And then the attorney calls the state police and set up a carpet scope, between himself and Nicky, barbaric and Emma the state police and explain the situation and I returned Etrex requested that they start a missing person case, which they did they launched within an hour which is in itself, is pretty unusual mostly, we are told you gotta wait twenty four hours while they didn't wait, twenty four hours a day. They felt something was wrong in and they started investigation right away less than less than an hour later to state police.

Creators are walking into cows office at his dealership to ask some questions about about shell. What would he could tell any cooperating with them fully talked to them for like a time and then he escorted them out to his house showed him. Where Michel's Van was parked in then, It took him into the house. In the end, they look through the van and then they needed to gal city, I need to get back to work and he left the mare do the thing and in which they did. And then they told Michel's man back into the state police barracks where they could take a call to work, and then they went back an interview. Council more so that they can it gives you

rough synopsis. Above what? What took place in house? How was determined at the Michel was missing. Now you talk about stand reason that the fourth divorce lawyer and so here here start to state police. You said. Now, who did he liked to do? No? No, no! No! No that's the reason of the Andreasen was pals attorney, ok partner. Michel Michel's attorney was Robert Miller right around. Yes, he sought soldiers. The other so would clarify that Robert Miller had an office done Waverley in and she had done. She had retained him to work. Divorce so He was the one that was called when, when it was discovered them

Joe was missing in and he was the one. They call the state police now how to state police proceed with this with her disappearance, like I said they proceeded rather quickly less than an hour. The investor Fears were at cows office, men up to his house, and then he left them up there are two do whatever they felt they needed to do. He actually gave them a written consent to searches, I'll, send his surrounding property. His truck Michel's me whatever they needed. Even turned over phone records. Business records home computer there were there was. I call on the answering machine that he saved for them thinking

might be helpful and so use is very cooperative. But what? But, after he went back to work that day, stay there to stay? Please stay there. It is worth looking through the hall, also in and around the property and their lives, started, calling in offer help to do more thorough search, they called the The New York State Forest Rangers, they called for the helicopter day divers there for today, for dogs. So there was a whole contingent of of of search efforts put in place to try to find Michel ah, but I didn't What happened at first day? They were actually there. Roma, I'm going say late morning until dinner time, looking for Michel, maybe six hours-

and they didn't find anything at all, so they packed up and left in a cow found out that they were done. So he picked up the kids in he's a richly taken, the dinner, but it then he took him home and in the state police were gone. So he remained at home, that evening and A family member showed up to offer their support and now, but the next day. But the police were back in there and they said putting together this, this massive search detail bringing in all those entities that I just mentioned, and then they spent the next step, ah, but eventually lead to them getting a search warrant. Originally they were working under the look, the written consent, the cow had given them, but then

one of our private investigators re actually has a team of two they went in to take a little closer look inside the house in they and while they were there, they found some specks of blood, tiny specks of blood on the garage, initially hung up on the wall and a grudge in Entry way to the kitchen from the language, so they halted there their assessment and apply for a search warrant, which is exactly what Having done so, everybody cleared out in media, they posted sentries at the door, to preserve the scene and and the next day they were back with a fork intention to looking for before the residence, and it was then when they found in the next couple of days, they found from it. National blood on the ground floor. But still

very, very tiny, centimeter or less at at most something about eighth of an inch really tiny, but the interest The thing was they are. Basically they took some random samples in field tested them and they came back positive for blood you, even though I feel tat his only positive for blood period, if not it will be done, is met. This is specifically target, it could be an old blood or him a lot. So you want no further to test it further, been anyway those early presumptive test. They they never. Photographed the areas that were tested, they never documented it with which was very on fourchan. And it was kind of a violation of crimes in protocol, but but

The interesting thing was they are they waited? It was like four days after Michel went missing before they started a photograph blood, which, which was very detrimental because it about the hall, the whole issue came up later was the idea is not only that the volume of blood was small but the, but the age of the blood that that became crucial, big because there was there. Wasn't us sufficient by American, suggested somebody been seriously injured or pill and in that for now the age of the blood becomes important in and they were, not really able to do that to age, the blood, because it was dry, it wasn't fresh, so there was now the way to determine how old blood was so an innocent explanation easily presented itself, but the they kind of it or that

and proceeded as if that was evidence of a crime, not the same time. You write that he is not charge, despite their visions, are their beliefs and he hires, as I am Stand reason is his attorney, and Gal also got a Joseph P. Kali Junior yes, now tell me about Joseph. Tea, coffee and your relationship to Heaven and how you are involved in this case. Ok I'll prior to this I had an ongoing working relationship with live attorney Joe Kali offer for several years. I ve been doing defence work for him for several years. He was very good at what he get. He very highly respected the respected defensive,

a neighbouring, a blue pounding the Ark and when with the police started questioning care. More and more more yeah? He was keeping his business. Tourney advised of what was going on and then it reached a point Were they finally ask him to take a polygraph exam? and then initially he responded right away. You up I'd be glad to, but he said my attorney You want me to let him know if there any legal issues came up, so he called his attorney, stand brazen at the time and stand So now I don't want you get cosmic cooperative with you for three days I want you to question him anymore and there'll be no polygraph, so that was the end of it, but because of that

stand raisin, knew that they were zeroing in on cow, so he recommended, that he consult with it a criminal offence attorney which the Andreasen was now so he would use the one recommended your colleague. So tell in his dad went to consult with Joe Kali in June call me right away. You, sir, I'd like you to be involved in this. So I went in and met with them with joy. Oh and cow, and his dad. I was retained on the spot. Which is unusual because ordinarily,. I dont get involved in a case unless,

We are is already been charge, but in this case it was. It was still just a missing person case, but because of the suspicion that cow was involved They wanted to get a jump on the investigation to find out what we could learn. So that's all got involved and started to work. On the case. Even though I wasn't privy to anything, the police were doing because he had been charged anything so, therefore was no discovering material to to give me. Guidance as to what they'd already been done. So for the most part, I was working fine. They say working blind, but, however, tell us About your prior background with the stately, and also what some of those prior relationships meant in terms of view had friends that were involved in this

At least you understood tell us a little bit about that. Here yet one of my training and experience came from the New York State Police. I worked as a uniform trooper Became pretty good at that idea, I later became a police instructor. I put together helped to put together. A highway drug addiction programme and help the teachers they live and then later on ota to investigator, and I worked in the neck unit for not for years. And then I'll use transferred into the forensic identification unit. The crazy investigation. So I receive additional training there. I worked in the violent felony warrants glad and so a lot of experience. So I knew how to

these operator and what I did things I know how they conduct major case investigate. With the show desks, and so I a pretty good working knowledge of what they were doing and why they were doing it but at but I just wasn't privy in this case. It is what the results because they were there under no obligation at that stage, to turn over anything that they have learned. But I knew what they were doing. I didn't know what what they were finding, what the results were. So I had to rely on. What can you tell me? Maybe Number two from a newspaper but but but then so I had to start pretty much from scratch. Anna. The first thing I did was was a bit of the so called crime scene, which I did not tell was star

very cooperative. You know, and he spent much time with me as if he is I wanted, and Anna yell hatred. Meta BAR there, and I talk of her and then I went in the family and friends and co workers just trying to get a heads up on what the state police might be might be doing. That's kind of beer that you're something more that Taiwan in include or what you mention about stand, reason and I dont over chronological order, but when disgrace, and have a conversation with Susan Movie and tell our audience who she is an little bit about her background as you found yeah. Ok, Yeah but the lead investigator, we learned very early on with a lead investigator was a failure. Investigated by the new Susan movie.

Like, I knew who she was. I never worked with her personally, but you know we knew each other from being on a job together she came and she came out the police about a year after I did. I came on. I graduated from the State Police Academy native seventy eight eyes. I think she came in and in the class right after that. Seventy seventy nine, So I knew she was working on the Cal Harris case and I found out from stand raising when we met and your colleagues office- and he described it- also I'll be coming into his office. I want to say about it days after Michel was reported missing an look at me. I said I know Kehl killed her and I'm then approve it in a debts. I believe at that stage they had even found the blogger.

So it became pretty obvious to me what about their, what their focus was in the cow was careless their crosshairs use, their number one suspect Anna, was very premature to say that, but now, but that's what she said. According the brazen sola and then As you mentioned it in you in your leader and at Michel missing in two thousand and one, but Macao wasn't indicted until four years later in two thousand and five. But in the interim they didn't find anything new. I mean they had those few specks of blood in the gray and the entry way that some of which match DNA Profile of Michel. Ah but, like I said, a volume of the blood was with high

The age of the blood was inconclusive. Ah, but despite that, four years later, not having found Michel or a murder weapon or anything further. They decided we'll go ahead in the data if they did. So what's he was indicted and arrested and range of a few weeks later we started getting discovering material from the district attorney General King That was our first glimpse at what the state police, what we're doing HU, the arena willing and what the people were saying, but while we were waiting actually while we are waiting for the discovery material to commend your Caliban released on bail, so he was free for us them.

It with him and prepare our defence So during one of my meetings with tell he was asking me, so he do. My background was with the state police or he was asking me if I knew of the year, the investigator there is a working, a case law specifically somali size, so I started telling him, but I know about her in all cheap she'd come Emma police family, her father, had once been media. The sheriff. Neighbouring broom counting your back and made seventies, but it, but he lost his bed for sure and so that that's what prompted cal

The law when we leave when he found out that Somalis maiden name, was Andrews and that she The daughter of John Andrews he's a kind of went berserk. I still remember standing up, you get red face them. Fire in his eyes. I said you said you said: John Andrews's Bobby's father. It is, and so I know I can get a nerve their story. I said yeah At the same time, I said, I'm assuming you were you you know he was the sheriff I brung county. I do that, but I didn't know that Bobby was his daughter. This is crazy, United LAW now read on the phone to your colleague. Get your wasn't available the times that we talk some more, and so I feel the men on and what I knew about

MEL B and her dad. Let us maybe more angry that he could understand why she she could be involved in this case. Eventually we are your smoke spoke. Did your colleague about it. But like I said- and we are already four years ended as has already been indicted, arrested so in any conflict, but that there was. Bring bringing it to the attention of the disk attorney or state police administration, we felt that it would just fall on deaf ears, because the balladur frequent wrong. So so so we decide not to make an issue of them. At the time, but what we wanted to closely monitor in all her her involved Let him go back and look at it even right from the beginning and end up to the current status of

investigation and then eventually there came a time when I was so decide. Some of the things I was finding rigour so Molly that I decided to take a closer look at her. In that regard, I reached out to a couple my trusted colleagues would sense, retired from the state place and they reminded me of her. Ok, she had worked on above and back and ninety six. That resulted in her being kind of admonished by the court of claims in a lawsuit filed against her, for a coursing. The confession Ottawa juvenile when she was a modest rather severely, but

We did know any of that until until I started doing research, I actually got a copy of the the court of claims your complaint and any decision that I wrote that in a book the results of that agenda. That was very disturbing that what you did to the young man and then For whatever reason, She was never disciplined by the state police. In fact it was just the opposite. They actually from auditor. You gave her a new position as a scene investigator down the illegal and then a short time later, the cow Harris case came along. You also write about very interesting laid down Henry Lee and his role on this tell us with this, who they

chose and of persons of Oj Simpson Faint, but tell us why! he was hired in what he was maintaining on behalf of the prosecution regarding a blog The little doktor Henry leaves a kind of internationally renowned expert forensic blood. Interpretation or an analysis so they may consulted with him several times they they. They took some There is therefore a graphs and their physical evidence and end, to his lab up in Connecticut had a look at it in in hopes of him being able to say that this was a I'm scene or that there were this was evident southern assault

And if he could say anything about the age of the blood, with a volume of the blood, Doktor Lee never never did a report so What kind of at a loss as to what he was going to say when he testified, but when finally did testify. Actually before the first trial. His testimony was gonna taken out of order because he had Scheduling complex how they had a videotape his testimony early and then and then present there too, the accord later but doing A testimony are probably the most critical thing that he said was that tat in his opinion, based on his experience, he felt it The age of the blood was within a couple of days.

And now we are. We argued very aggressively that there there was really no scientific weight and to determine that does not but it, but he stuck with that. Without testimony, What later on The court ruled against them; instead, he couldn't do that, so any any subsequent testimony He would not be able to say with any reasonable grit reasonable degree of scientific certainty that it was a couple of days, so he was. Prevented from testifying about that about that in the future trials. But probably one or more troubling things with Doktor Lee was that we discovered later where's we, we found out that door. About a year and a half before the trial, the first trial.

Doktor Lee helmets a strategy. Meeting and his lab up in Connecticut, which was attended by senior members the state police in a disco tourney because actually himself and. But we do what we didn't know until much later was that national newsmagazine had come in and video. That meeting, which we thought was Pretty pretty bizarre. You know how they even knew about it. It is hard to imagine somebody had to call and then why they were allowed to command during a pre trial strategy being, as is really people, but anyway they did it, and then they went in and a videotape this this discussion and, of course Africa was convicted. The first time ah segments obey,

Video were presented on forty eight hours, I wonder when the defence team review that footage. A broadcast version. It was We are determined that a lot of it had been obviously added it out in any new attorney at that time. Bruce are who came into the picture before the third trial? He wanted to get all of the raw footage, so he made application for or originally denied the appeal that eventually the CBS had to turn over, and when we looked at the footage. But the most troubling part, was when disconcerting jail and is talking.

With Doktor Lee LI. Any says that the the photographs of the state police took up. The blood had been altered, And then, in a is heard, trying to clarify my by saying all they were just corrected: which either either of which would be an appropriate sure, and so that that was really really troubling an inner in any. You could hear that on a couple of occasions, during that donor video segment and then. A key does actually, I believe, asked asking Actually, if the blood could have come from or a cut hand, and actually said, yeah good, come from a cut hand. Ah, ah But the key never tells him there.

That he had information in a divorce papers that showed that that was clear. Being that Michel had caught her hand in an inn. Could it with cow back in March of two thousand one? I happen to be right out in the driveway, but at least police during that video segment, no key net. Told me about that, so it will was gonna troubling for that they were they were pursuing, trying to get Doktor Lee too to testify that the blood was much more recent? Then then it here and I one of the other things that was pretty significant. We had our own blood before photograph export. Look at the photographs that they did have

And he told us that they had actually augmented. They are the red tone by turning up the red color by some twenty points would whatever the whatever that means, so that it would appear it would appear redder than actually was and therefore making it look more recent than it was so and then did not troubling. Part too was that Doctor Lee knew that the photographs had been opened, but yet he still uses them in his assessment before offering his testimony credible, but Jesus is as an for a second tier from our side our third love, my wife LISA the former brought veteran. She always remarked that she had problems finding browser it properly, so she was excited to receive,

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What would the normal procedure the follow up completely on every possible suspect decides cow Harris, so you want to talk to people like Brian early. Tell us. About this journey about this investigation and how you eventually get to the point where you think you have I am very, very viable suspects, rather than Cal Harris hear it because that that evolved over a long period of time and before before the first trial, the defence focus at least for me, was on Brian early because he was the last person to see Michel alive, at least reportedly at the time, he had are relationship with her

guy, you know, moved up All of these belong two from Philadelphia to New York in anticipation of a relationship with Michelle, he had loaned her five thousand dollars to help her out payment on a home that that he at some point Expected to be living in with her soul, as part of the elimination process. It is my opinion that they they really took shortcuts and in abbreviated what they really should have been done- probably most importantly and when they found out there from brain early. That Michel was at his house that night after work Then it was only his word that she left his house when he said she did, but yet they never

did. Any forensic work o Brien earlier apartment, his car, his person or The hunting property that him in his car, funded on just over the answer, the border from New York. They they went out there and then and I did a look around They never even took any photographs and brine early told them that he'd had her out there so that they really dropped the ball as far as I'm concerned, in not doing that.

Because my Michel had personal belongings at Brian early apartment, she had stay there overnight it on occasion, so that that was really not the best way to try to eliminate some one and then she also had a short intimate relationship with one of the cooks. Let thesis They must Michael Casper, they tat, probably too weak playing where they had sex two or three times his apartment and Michael Casper had no alibi for that night after Michel left and again they they didn't, do any forensic work at it. Apartment or his vehicle or his person. Salt Elvis about things to me were world were a bit troubling

if you're you're looking at these people, s true suspect, Then you have to eliminate and properly, and I think they spent way too much gave to wait. You much credit to the polygraph. There was a means of eliminating them no big fan of the polygraph or, for another reasons, butter, but so yeah that I was really kind of troubled by the by the abbreviated methods they used to eliminate suspects. Then there was a Even back in two thousand and one there was There was another suspect by the name of Stacy, store was a patron of what these who used to command. I always ask for a table in Michel section,

Initially at least he was, he was looked at as a possible suspect. It's not what is not clear why, they were looking at him as a suspect, because the information that was released in disguise We didn't include any of that information, but it, but for some reason just like Brian early and Michael Casper Stacy Stewart was, asked to take a polygraph. We don't know why. You don't just randomly asked people to take her polygraph unless there are some who have reason to believe that they're lying or they said something the relationship with with the victims. Not one at one, I'm looking through. All of the leads I'm looking for. Information about Stacy Stewards Polygraph and it's not there There was no need taken regarding Colleagues, even though

a preliminary lead, the stated that he was scheduled to come in and take one and it turned out they. They never turned it over, and That became an issue much later. Eventually, we ve got a partial copy of his polygraph. But even then it was it was incomplete compared to the polygraphs that were taken by other suspects particular the conclusion page? I thought that was pretty bizarre, but I have to admit initially I wasn't looking at Stacy's tourism as a viable suspect, because they did. This wasn't enough information in the lead to suggest that, but it wasn't it wasn't until after the

first trial anew. Witness came forward within hours after the first, whose trial conviction and this new witness Ah revealed no information that was dynamite, which each person we came the whole dynamics of the investigation and in according to a new cast the characters, including Stacy Stewart the new witness was cabin tubs. He was a hey farmer. And he called in right after the conviction to joke please office and told them. He had some information that he felt was important enough to pass a law He didn't realize the significance his information until he read an article in the newspaper about the trial

He had misunderstood when Michel had actually gone missing and it turns out He believed he had seen her at the foot. The driveway, On the morning of September, twelve two thousand and one arguing with another man. Not her husband. Then he just Ride this man and the vehicle he was driving. And it was in the early morning hours to just probably between five, forty five and six. I am M so wasn total daylight. Yet it just starting, but use pulling a hey wagon up the road. It goes right by the Harris driveway now I'll. Hang it on hill. At the time This is a dirt road. Drainage gets on both sides. And he's pulling on nine. What wide hey wagon and saw you

concerned about whether it be able to get by because this pickup truck was are. Backed out angle out into the road from from the nose of the Harris driveway. It was partly. Blocking the road, so he had a swing way over to his laughed, hoping that kids by without going in the ditch and moving his load solid. Result. He was of creeping by an end and as as he was going by. He looks over any seas, a woman who he thinks is Michel here of any Cabin tubs revelation panic changed everything for from Mama, here too, have been crying for these upset. Any any remembered glaring right at making eye contact with the young man. So he used able to describe him quite well as well as his vehicle, but Michel had hidden signal

she was in any kind of danger or trouble, so he just continued on his way and then we learn much later that there was actually a second man who came by I am in described almost identical, cling John Steel. You live up a peg he'll road around us. Same time with a companion and then he described almost the same thing as a young man arguing with an older one lose older than he was with blonde hair dark, colored truck, but in in in his case, As he was driving slowly by here, he had the though the passenger window of his truck was down, and he- and he heard the young man say just get in the car, just getting a damn car

You know in an argumentative type voice, but like bullet but like with common tubs. He didn't, he didn't see you in making any signals that she needed help, so he continued on his way so neither one of them stop. Unfortunately, girl cabin Tom saw me later. He says I wished. I wish he said something as I would have gonna be the start out on that he would have caverns of bigger. Maybe we wouldn't have this conversation that be done that, but anyway, it was so based on cabin tubs. Revelation added changed everything for from Mama for the defence, and it was fortunate that you came to the defence first. So for the next four months after

bizarre disclosure. I started investigating not only cabin tabs, but also what he had seen and it took me back to The lead regarding Stacy Steward and I'm looking through the leaden and I'm I find out there. They ve done some background on Stacy stored, including little history and a motor vehicle report, and not so he set the physical description described by car. And tabs any drover truck the match. The description, so I out in our destiny, A red flag for me, so I wanted to learn more about Stacy Stuart, so I started looking a little closer at him and I actually Got one of my colleagues involved to help me name is Frank Rony he lived.

What county is what more familiar with the area that I was so he agreed oh come on board and help me I gather more information on and Stacy Steward and in his rough and his associates so you did that, and it s got a snowball from there everything I learned about Stacy Store was was pointing to him as the day get some type of involvement would Michel Harris, ultimately ultimate led to are frank, I going to Texas and speaking with the witnesses, the first time with the Texas we couldn't find Stacy he knew we were in town, but his cousin. That we talk to wouldn't tell us worry, was how to get all of em. But we end going back about a year and a half later after we develop, more information and that this time we did find him. He was working, as

corrections officer for the department number the taxes department rations. Meda here use living right on the campus Ferguson Prison unit in Texas enough. We found him home, you divorced, first wife, he married to a second wife, and We had about a half hour conversation with America's house. Edna will like the way it when you use Obviously, lying to us, we could call by the look in his eyes in one's there, it's hard to describe the look in his eyes We do that what he was just making stuff up as we went along. And while we were there, we actually are To one of his cohorts, it had been up to New York with him. His name is christophersen, the two of them were best, but at least they were

yeah, but when we started questioning both of them there they started point the finger at each other play in that. The other. The other one was having a relationship of Michel Harrison that so that that is raised our suspicions even further. Was interesting. How I gotta say you seem to play these people against each other somewhat and believing that Stacy Stewart was More, so the perpetrator not saying that he did, it might have did this alone, but in terms of farm, Getting information from Christophersen you get, corroboration. That's the story that originally told that he

on that day that he went to work early, that these guys never went to work early. The other, interesting and fascinating pardon vivid part of this book is when you find out about the property that he owned and then the cement pad tell us about this and that search where, as a reader, we think we might be privy to something very, very amazing. Going on with the summit tat tell us about this year. It was the. It's pretty pretty interesting out all developed as I started, taking a closer look at Stacy what The things I wanted to do was it was to learn more about this house that he bought up. In the word, the sister, with just a little log cabin- sat on about four acres of property of wilderness area with little pond out front.

But when I started checking the records the real property records, I discovered that he had, he had purchased the property only about three weeks before Michel Disappear, and you never. You never made the first payment on his property It was a very affordable mortgage, the agreement that he signed with Citibank. Ah, barks at using make real good money there at their word was Workin steel plant, but he never made the first payment when you travel to be due on September, fifteenth about Three days happens shall went missing and they never made any in the other payments, and then so he started getting the bank started

and notices to him to a foreclosure notices. It turned out that they did for closed on the property and there now February, two thousand and two, but just prior to that becoming pressure here. There are christophersen, had packed up and move back to Texas, though it was, it was pretty interesting All of these things started to happen. At one when we reached out to some other stacy and curses co workers at the new core steel plant where they work they work there is welders, on assembly lines. You know manufacturing still trust his work. Wherefore industrial buildings. They were both good welders.

But I was lying work and at the time there were twelve our ships six in the morning till six at night. And one of the things I jumped out at me with with Stacy Store, was there use first interviewed by the police He told them that on the morning of bar September, twelve. You have gone into work between four and five a m. Well, we got his time cards, and looked at him in an end there were no entries on his tankards it for five, a m and everybody we talk to including his warmer soup. Slicer and other CO workers safety director, none of them cooperate, cooperated. That anyone would ever gawayne bilaterally. They said life work assembly lie work, you could do anything until everybody was there ll be no,

do you want an early so that that became are a real, suspicious thing for US But as time goes with it, we did discover this until cabin tops came forward no six years into this, but at the time, back in two thousand and one when the police force interviewed Stacy Stuart. That border five a m timeframe, wouldn't have been significant to them. Because they believed Michel had been killed around midnight at home by her husband. But when you are, but when you look at the revelations of cabin tubs. And he sees Michel, whether with a young man with short, dark hair around. Six o clock in the morning. That kind of

just the whole theory ass, the wind Michel was was killed or or abducted in it this happened to be around six o clock in the morning when Stacy was supposed to be at work. So we it was our belief the reason he told the police that he's gonna work between four and five was to establish an alibi for himself. Now we have to summarize what happens and we did in the introduction. I didn't introduction what happens in a first rallies convicted he's out on bail the second trial, the third trial you have. You have different personnel in the third drowse different defence attorney. Tell us about the summarize what happens in these trials till we get to the fourth try

you're after cow was tell after you won is appeal. The second trial he got released from prison in two thousand I believe that over two thousand twelve he hired a new attorney by name a Bruce bark at large? Off from down in the Garden City York along, what one island- and we see it as well- team over these and other investigators down there. So late he became involved and we had a much bigger defence team. Now I stayed on as the sun with them investigator and consultants because of my involvement from the beginning, Anna Bruce took out a very aggressive approach and when the case finally, what the trial, the third trial It was finally held in her in a new venue opens

the Hairy County New York, which was well beyond it. Only by miles away from a week, or so we thought we could get up much fairer trial there, was it turned out the trial Thank God for, like almost twelve weeks and and then, When the jury deliberated, they deliver Are you for like eleven days. I could reach a verdict even even after they were set back in a couple times to try they could there were virtually virtually split down the middle so. Why was it resulted in a mistrial? Ah, but one of the women Things that Bruce it asked for and was denied during their trial was was the was the laboratory to pursue evidence in support of what we call third hardy culpability, meaning evidence that supports, believe

someone other than Cal Harrison's responsible and that that motion got denied. After the mistrial then, and they they decided to go to a fair trial. Bruce you I'll get together. The defence team- and he said you know, I wonder- will get can you judge, I want to renew my third party culpability argument, but at but I need something more, so we get a couple of things one we do. We decided to excavate the burnt peer on Stacy Stewards property because some witnesses. Told us that there has been a burning, a bloody clothes there, so we arranged to do that with an archaeological la a group from halogen in Pennsylvania. They came up. They dug up the burnt pit, they recovered some items in an hour,

all of all of the every item there was wound was alive, circumstantially linked to Michel Harris. We couldn't positively say that was her. That there was no dna found it S. Just then, too long a time of the evidence exposed to the the heat and until the elements ah but circumstantial, leaving the evidence with pretty strong so so we made we made those arguments before the for trial The judge finally said that he would allow the presentation of thought, the party couple Billy to a limited extent, so that was that was a pretty good favourable decision and, as a rule though we were able to bring in witnesses. Described the burning a bloody closed up at stewards, proper be at an end, a couple of students from the archaeological

who described the items that were found so weak. We felt that was an important thing for them. Judge to know just how the readers now the fourth trial was actually a Talbot decided to wave a jury and go with a bench trial which is pretty risky decision. Jobs under the circumstances. We felt it was the right one, because we really didn't think we can expect a different result without with a jury. Other than a mistrial. So is it I was a real good decision and we had a real good judge, presiding self and made all the difference in quickness we are, you mentioned the tearing up the Conakry. Flora we'd actually develop information from a couple of witness that that one Stacy Brown his little cabin in the woods there.

Get a barn there or like out building were kept his eighty. These he rode in all indications were he had poured the concrete in the floor of a grudge after the show it missing but weak. We couldn't confirm that. We tried with weak, we reached out the contract, concrete dealers and contractors, but several years that pass them in their record. If it wasn't the greatest, so we will need never able to confirm when the concrete was poured? Ah, but we, We were still interested in whether or not he might have used the concrete created to help hide the body before we started digging. We brought in on ground trading radar and had them scanned the ground more and it was. It was.

It was. It was not a real, definitive scan, but there was some type of mass Large enough to be a human body underneath the concrete. So we decided to go ahead, tear up the concrete which which would you get ourselves jackhammers in whatever took Running motors we examined every piece of concrete. We pull out at air, and then Nora was the country was up We got down six feet more. We really optimistic at one point that we might find her, but we never did. All of disappointed information about Stacy stored we kept looking went. We ended up digging up an old well. We go out there. We had a diver search, the pond, so

we are doing is watches Stacy Stewards property is a state police were going on Kells, but we are coming up. Empty. Also, one of the things that guy I should note about the the items in the bird tat when we, when we asked to use. Those items is evidence of the trial they were denied, even though they were circumstance We await to Michel and your Bruce made. The argument I totally agree that, are you not had had the same items, and found in a burnt it on cows, property There is no doubt that they would have been used against him. Yes, it's very fascinating to four people. They're gonna. Take it take the time to read this, that the cabin

really change the this case in this trial and and carbon heritage, cow, Harris's future, but also Vega. Once he was on the stand and the attack on his credibility in his character and then his response cuz. He said I'm not going to take it. You had experience with the state police and they was not going to take it, and- and so he certainly Didn'T- and it's fascinating for you to have this as part of a book- he is defiance testimony and successfully unable to change the course of this case completely kept cabin MIKE he's gonna the euro. Here if he did, he didn't have to come forward. He told me more than once these I'm just trying to do the right thing. Yeah they they attack credibility and then it in one of the

Disappointing thing for me was: are you no one what I developed. All of these all of this information about Stacy stored in Christophersen, actually went to the state police and had a meeting with them and try to convince them too. To pick up where I left off in the pursue Stacy Stored and Chris promises to the next level, You know what they're, with their authority in awe. And there the resources that they could have. In my opinion, I think the case could have been solved, but they chose not to do that. And that still disturbs me that the good I know how aggressive they can be when they pursue a suspect them when it came to Stacy Store, they just didn't want to go there.

You go away, but you don't pay them a good picture of the conduct of many of the players in this, including saw maldivian and the state police itself once they had. Targets set and what their sights set on their ya know, who they want to prosecute and new site. All of this in your book before I do before he wrap up. What do you think really happen as you right in the book? What are you, what are your conclusions on? What happened? and why I can't say I can't say I don't have a positive outcome. But I have are a reasonable hypothesis based on what my own invest. Aviation. What I learned from witnesses that we talk to after cabin tubs came for. And I started looking at Stacy Stuart more closely. I believe that there were saw

and that when Michel left Brian Early I'll stay at night. She didn't go home, she went back and I met up with Stacy Stuart at the night club. They danced and drank, got want together and then the party continued up at his house and I think God Stacy Attica. What friends are Chris Tomasson in right shoulders she may have thought there were safety in numbers, but that they had other things in mind, and I think. She married. They may very well have been sexually assaulted. And then when she I d go home, They see new. That would be trouble for em. If, if she said anything so he follows earns faster, at the end of the driveway he's arguing with her demanding that shit.

Get in the car he's begging with them. One comes cabin tubs, is what he sees and Drug John comes by, and then here's They see so you get in the car in the damn car and after he's out of Sight Michel's abducted by Stacy, em. Maybe when she realizes that the train Survival are not good if she, if he gets back to his cabin, she decides to our savers, But unfortunately, even though she probably far very heroically, he overpowered earn and stabbed her right there in the truck and justice will quickly. We also up

up to and found Stacy's old truck down in Louisiana. Had it had an agreement on Fourchan It's now been fourteen years later, but there was still traces of blood on the actually and behind the door panels. On the passenger side, the justified as a deeper blood, but only a part, told dna profile could be established, so we couldn't conclusively say that it was the shells blood. But, interestingly, we also found diamond studded, hearing wedged star wedged in the seat belt retract around the passenger side. But looking off a lot like one of the Erase Michel would wear it. When you look at some of her photographs- and it was all it was all pitted tarnished, but it was still intact Their dna profile on there, it was him closer to what

the one that was there could not eliminate Michelle. Just an amazing every and with just we just touched on it tonight. We are here to discuss those out I would encourage anybody who wants to learn more about the red. The worker, you'll learn everything you have I want to thank you very much for coming on and talking about reign of injustice, the Cow Harris Story, David and Beers is thereof website Facebook page or are I've just an Amazon page for them to take a look at this. In This is probably the best way right now. I think, eventually ended up put together web page. I haven't done that yet I do have an email that I set up just for the book. It's got, David am beers got author. Gmail Back com.

In and you can. You can learn quite a bit by just going to Google. Amazon or whatever and just type in the title reign of adjusting the sender everything I'll come up. I want to thank you. Very much David and beers for coming on talking about random injustice, the Cow Harris story: it is a fantastic investigation. Clyde you for your incredible exhaustive investigation and this extraordinary book and chronicle this amazing case, I wanna. Thank you very much. David M beers. Thank you good night.