Manage the twists and turns of life these days with a low rate, Philadelphia, Federal Credit Union personal Loan, you'll, be it The paper all your end of summer needs and anything else. It pops up rates or as low as seven point five percent, a pr for a limited time only applying for a person alone at Pfc. You is simple click. The ban. Our visit Pfc. You dotcom today hurry offer expire September thirtieth, not here for our profit here, for yours, insured, I can your health first, Cooper University Healthcare. That's our aim Our doors are open, in fact, they never closed the world has changed when you visited Cooper Office, so Things may be a little different new safety, in place, but our medical experts It meant to putting your health first remains unchanged. Your health is important to us So don't let your health care offices are safe because we put your health first

Cooper, University Healthcare LAW yeah. You are now listening to true murder, the most shocking killers in true crime, history and the authors that have written about him. Gacy Bundy, Dahmer, night stalker, dating K every week. Another fascinating offer talking about the most shocking, an infamous killer into crime history through murdered with your host journalist, Ann Arbor Dan. Ask you get evening just before Christmas. Nineteen o too, nap strangled his wife in her sleep he put her body in a box and sent the box

bring down the great Miami River telling one. Then Hannah had left him when the truth came out not confess to four other murders. Newspapers across the MID West sent reporters to interview the handsome strangler, despite spending more it is about who had in prison. He had a charming boyish manner that made him an instant celebrity serial killer drew I'm a story and Richard O Jones examines the stragglers alleged crimes, the fat my dream of covering up naps atrocities and how a brain damage drifter became a media darling. The bookstore featuring this evening is the first celebrity serial killer in Southwest Ohio confessions of strangler. Alfred Nap with my special guest, true crime, historian and other Richard O Jones? Welcome to the programme and thank very much for this interview, Richard O Jenkins, thanks, Ramey dance pleasure talk with you,

Thank you so much incredible story. Let's talk about your background in Niger listen and a little bit about how you came to be the author of the first celebrity serial killer in South West Ohio. What brought you to the story while basically I spent my first career twenty five years as Rapporteur for my hometown newspaper. The Hamilton Journal, news and part of my coverage was I'm pretty broader. Stop. I did arts Archer Entertainment mostly, but I also did the cultural institutions in town, the historical societies and things of that and so and in doing the job I kind develop day interested in local history, and a rare cross Alford. Now, as I was Well, do you believe you just got about a common thing

our county Ohio, because he was our first electric chair case, I'm getting help of myself here, but he was our first electric chair case about accounting, and So I look I've known about him. You do that through that little bit of information, but about three thousand eight, a friend of mine who at some time. In Hollywood, as a documentary film maker, he approached me to do a story, do a documentary, about another murder, Hamilton, the nineteen, seventy five Easter massacre in shut up a fella James, Rupert shot eleven members of his family on cold blustery Sunday after Easter afternoon, and he wanted to do documentary about that, and so I started doing a ton of reach search into that and just in the periphery of that

all these other murders in Hamilton through through the ages, and this one really stuck out to me because of the I call it shakespearian. I agree. I wrote the book and five chapters because it just strikes me as a kind of shakespearian, very broad, reaching bra not only was there the murders that he confessed to, but because of the nature of the coverage that the newspapers from all over the MID West, descended on him turn and they were all buying. For you know some kind of work or some kind of exclusive, so there was a lotta newspaper coverage not only of the crimes, but also his family dynamics and the things or other is it we're going on and Hamilton at the time? And so, as I started launching into this career, the second career of of riding, true crime? I wanted

Do the Rupert book which I dead, but is not obliged yet. But but this one was a kind of better style for me out for the publishers I was working with because of the the rule truly historical nature, of its having taken place at the turn of the previous century. So that's a along with how it came about it right. Let's talk about eighteen, ninety, four as you open the book, a new feature, Hannah Goddard and she's twenty one years old and she has to have sisters. And she's going to sit and anti for work? Tell us so what work? Is she doing an doing and who she meets when she said Cincinnati and what happens after that? tell that meeting obstacles to work in a restaurant as a waitress and one of the waitresses

There was a lady by the name of May king. She was the hostess of the restaurant, where she work and she took Hannah and on a couple of other, young girls under her wing so to speak and gave him a place, the web she married her husband had a really good job, and so she was a sky taken. Air of these two young, girls, and it was through her association through hands, associate asian with may be king that she met, maybe he's brother Alfred. Now. What did she know about Alfred Nap at that time and who was he basically well offered? Nap was Kyler a strange character. His his family travelled a whole lot when he was young and real clear why his father was pretty much a common labour. I think the most are the biggest job he had was you

the conductor on Asia what they called it the incline. It was a street car that went up a hill in Cincinnati, but he grew up in various parts of Indiana and Ohio. He was the oldest of on a five children, those three three daughters and n, two sons, Alfred was the oldest and he was given itinerant drifter himself once he he grew up. He had a penchant for getting in trouble and he'd did several terms and in prison and though, when he met Hannah. The first time he was married to Two young girl named Jenny that he had met Then Lawrence Burgundy, Anna shoes from cars will Indiana he had married her and she sat by when he did a couple, a prison terms and she turned up there.

In the Us Canal and was rolled a suicide and it would come out that that she was pregnant with Alfred's child and did know what to do about it. And he went on to the sis I enquire offices to put an ad in the paper looking for work. And when he came out, she was gone a couple days later: they they dragged her body out of the canal, and this is a the time that Hannah was living with his sister, mainly in commons will add a northern suburb of Cincinnati and You got to know Hannah through that association. And they married. Despite mania made these objections,

they married about six weeks after Jenny. Nap was found in the canal. So where did he find work in? Why would you characterize this? This marriage? Well, he answered yeah, this sort of fantasy that he wanted to be in show business. He worked for the their of allotted theatres and opera houses in Cincinnati at the time. And he would get work as a supernumerary which would be you know, it's a big battle seen I've got guys hang around within the agreed costumes and in carrying spear. You know that I have a singing parts, but but they have part of that the background. So we got a lot of work with that. He also got a lot of work with you work for a couple of circuses, but that would come through town and with it

I guess the Sarkozy you talk about would like human oddities and things that sort and one of them had a beauty pageant, as was part of their attraction and out it would get into a lot of trouble creeping on the the girls there and right you got a lot of trouble for stealing from from people there, and so he did a couple of his son you spent of one year. Pretty much in the work out as a result of his his thievery, but he also did a lot of our job.

You know just common labour things are digging ditches and and shovelling gravel one, and when he was an Hamilton for a time he drove a call wagon. It delivered called to people's houses, so what'd term may me and her husband, Ed king. They took in again Hannah what did they think of Alfred and how much today interact well offered was apparently a frequent visitor to their house. He, whose living in Cincinnati between between his jail stance, he would often cumbersome natty to live. His parents also live

Therefore, a time and his other sister Ceety operated a candy shop there for a time. I also he was a frequent visitor to the to the king home at king was not a big fan of Alfred he'd, just he was kind of a weird fella, and yet one of the things about Alfred that would come out loud Peter is it. He took took a couple blows to the head when he was very young. I think one time he fell off of a porch and was unconscious for a few days and another he was kicked, kicked in the head by a horse and, in fact, is to get the low ahead of ourselves here. His lawyer. How cut his hair really short when he went to trial, so they could see the hoof mark that was embedded in the side of his head. So so he wasn't it.

A very light fell, but he seemed to have you like these savant tendencies in that he, he had a really good memory about things and he would act out these stories and he would write plays. Of course you never got anything produce professionally, but this was just carved way, his his, My work, another thing about him, but the thought was kind of interesting is when he was staying Cincinnati. His companions were, the children in the neighborhood and he would wish hang out with them until he got into a little bit of trouble for doing things like flooring. What rocks it at the women who worked in the factory when they came out from doing their job? You know very childish things like Swatch I'd, say you're my opinion, others than that offered was kind of abuse.

Man, boy, that's that he was kind of kind of bright in some ways, but generally kind of a stupid flower and and a kind of clumsy and and and childish. I think the way that he comes across to me. You write about August eighth, one thousand eight hundred and ninety four and there's a guy fishing, and he finds a body of a woman. Tell us what happens with this in Korean to who this woman that was found. That woman you're talking about his first wife Jenny now, whether they they figure out on the body out the canal, And she had a lot of cuts in abrasions and her head euro injuries to her had most of that, they treat

to your being run over by a canal, boats or or the glass that was imbedded. That was lying at the bottom of it now and things that sort so went when they get really do an autopsy, but that the post mortem examinations they did she had real reason. Murder, in fact maybe, and his soon to be Why Hannah nap both testified at the corners in class to journeys despondency, the fact that she was pregnant with Alfred's I'll and really didn't wanna have a baby with them for obvious reasons he couldn't hold job, he was in jail in and out of jail, all his life right, so so

so it was ruled a suicide. Now you talk about, they were married, and this is only five weeks after what you had mentioned five weeks after Jenny's death. After so there's a couple wines in West Indianapolis Indiana in the summer of eighteen. Ninety five and then you introduce thirteen year old, Bessie Draper and she had come to West Indianapolis from terror hot to live with it You want to get a job to send money back home, so tell Us August, twenty ninth and what happens with Bessie Draper, and who does she mean? Well The on twenty nine does he Draper. A fellow who was struggling to move a dresser and a wheelbarrow and she helped him now

and he followed her round or he gripping cod took. The two are to a lot of our colleagues and and in West Indianapolis and further they were the more scared she got and eventually did she he let her down into a dead end alley that They are stable and she really got frightened then took off running and an escape but she knew where he lived because she'd helping deliver this dresser, and so she went to the police and in full and told them of what happened, and so without one of the police eight rooms. They arranged a little staying in that she went to the house and she was gonna EC, signalled to the major If the man who came out was offered now

and then they would arrest him, and so that's that's what they did and they rushed in there and that in He then another prison term for for assault, therefore tempted assault with her. Now you talk about this, Sir he's forty years old when he gets convict any throne in prison. He serves seven years most of his old adult life was spent in prison for petty larceny. An assault on women and girls. What happens when he gets out of prison Hannah? He was married Hannah, time and out, but the last presidency did was for asserting a teacher in burn words in Cincinnati, and the story goes. The tea arm was just had this wagon that he was making some deliveries and he just stopped and got out and started chastened

a woman who is a school teacher, and I hear about going to the Ohio penitentiary for that and Hannah Oh credit, not mother, she stopped by him and she was living again with Tom Maybe it s, king and Commons well, when he was due to get out of prison, but the kings didn't want offered to come and live with them. So here I moved back to Hamilton, Ohio, my home town, to live with her uncle Charlie and she was setting up house there. She had to have users who were there and so kind her home, so she moved back and without Charlie it's so when I forgot out a present from salting this teacher and they took a house on

very good with Charlie for a little while the night, they took the upper floor of a house on south fourth street in Hamilton, which happened to be next door to Hamilton mayor Charles Bosh, Charlie Boss, toy botched thought that he was kind of way are a sweet but odd solemn. He noted. A later on that, when offered was driving, is clear rock. If you would come down there, He would ring the ballot, what kind of panic didn't come out to give him a little kid he would park his horse and fraud housing and run down and he'd, be in there for ten or fifteen minutes, and then he can back out all all Turkey and happy, and so they They were living seemingly a really good life euro, four four who they were. For the time they lived in there

turn on south fourth forestry pause for a moment for this commercial. You talked about everything seemed to be normal in this house. With Hannah and Alfred Nap and your health first, Cooper University Healthcare, that's our aim. Our doors are open. In fact, they never closed. The world, has changed when you visited Cooper Office so things may be a little different new safety in place, but our medical experts, it meant to putting your health first remains unchanged. Your health is important to us so don't let your health CARE offices are safe because we put your health first Cooper, university health care your health first. Cooper University Healthcare. That's our aim, our doors, are open. In fact they never closed.

The world has changed when you visited Cooper Office, so things may be a little different new safety, in place, but our medical for its commitment to putting your health first remains unchanged. Your health is important to us so don't let your health care offices are safe because we put your health first Cooper University Healthcare. These sir he's got the mare. This Bosh guy thinks he's not not such a bad guy. What happens next with Alfred Nap? Why he's never? Will I clear

why he did it. But one morning, just before Christmas, he says he woke up in the middle of the night and strangled Hannah in her sleep now. If we can't go back to his saw his childishness his child like nature, I think here somewhere else refer, two as he did? He did it with giving no more thought and a boy pulling the wings off of a fly to see what would happen in Europe. I don't know he who never very clear about it. But that's what he did. He strangled her and her sweet and that all that morning he went on. Our town he rendered a spring wagon

like a flatbed wagon and a horse. He went to a shoe store and got they cut collared issue box, but I'm guessing it was a crate that they ship boxes of shoes in right. It took it back to the house on South fourth street, and I he got the by upstairs, but I did he put Hannah's body and in some other things in it, and it was too heavy for and to get it downstairs. She would. She was a petite but still he arose all folded up in this box with some other stuff and he couldn't get it down, so he even went so are to hire a young man whose passing by and gave him a nickel to helping carried this box downstairs, I said the young man there and then drive off in the spring wagon toward the river He said he was going to deliver some stuff too, since corner, which was like a little village

four miles, Hamilton tat. He was going there, but gone long enough to do that, and so when he came back and Bob, a horse in the buggy the horse in the spring wagon back to the stable. They accused him of the horse really hard, and he said now I didn't I just I just got their fast. You know, and so he came back now. Then he went to visit the kings in Commons veil and he gets down there and they seen coming up the walk and he's gone and Alfred goes to says to the kings well, where's Hannah and they said what will Alfred she's not here, and he thinks I'm Well, that's where he says. Well, that's odd. I was gonna meet or here, and so he stayed in town and and celebrate Christmas with them, and there was a general

that Hannah had had enough and just laughed and didn't one wanted to find your anymore, so that was kind of the presumption that they had after Christmas. Alfred goes back to Hamilton and saddles up his affairs there. He saw some of hand as close to pay off the rent, and then he just kind of disappears for awhile, with no sign of Hannah and the kings being very suspicious, especially ass. He was very ambitious about what might have happened to Hannah. What dizzy? What does he too? What does he tell her in terms? What does he tell Edward to try to convince Edward did he's innocent? What did he

what did he? What was the indication that you said it Edward was suspicious, and so he does confront them and says the nap where, where where's Hannah, why Isn T know Hasn t been here? Why? Why is she here and so right? He explained about a note. So what is this note that he explains in how convinced as Edward of his innocence or his guilt after this? Why he's not convince he's not convinced of his of that that thou I'm trying to find the no here? My welcome sign that everyone, You write that he played along with nap story and asked him to stay for supper, so you want to download again question in as much as he could. He was convinced it nap was guilty, but he wanted to not

I guess alert not to the idea that he was totally slight acting a month yet is murdered. King kings father was also stay in with them at the time, and so he p, but Alfred IN, and the father in law? In the same in the same bed, the and told his father in law, father in law, the Withan talks in his sleep, if he says anything about Hannah and they said that he he did not spent. He was a very rough with sleeper but he never got anything concrete to tell him what of what had happened to Hannah show. So that was Tiber didn't really go anywhere. For you write, a nap calls Hannah's halves. Linda Spirit and ass. Her have you heard the latest. And told her that Hannah had disappeared and he said that he got this information from a telegraph coming saying that

Mammy was the second centenarian I had left to go. There highlight the eye here there when he got to the Mammy, Edwards is Hannah here, so we was at least consistent with that story in terms of trying to covers tracks yeah, but he made a he made a fatal air, though in trying to convince me oh, but Hannah had left them and that was he went on The Indianapolis, where his parents lived and without getting a divorce and with no body turning up offered, got married again and. That kind of set off your major major alarms in the king family, especially now as well. You talk about this.

Marriage. Who is this person that he marries and of what does she know about his background? Well,. He married a young lady, but by the name, Anna Gamble and she was an acquaintance with his parents. They lived in the same block Indianapolis and she was all oh, you know very childish, woman. She was very petite which seem to be Alfred's tied, probably because he could over power. He was a terrible big fella himself, but he married this this young lady who just she just about him. She she was gonna, stick by no matter what happened. So she married this young, let this young lady and they moved into a basement apartment in Indianapolis. That used to be a paint store.

They said it, was very dingy and dark. Ah, they live therewith with her foster father who was A civil war veterans and they were there and are then that's where they caught up with us. How they caught up with him, was a king was he was so suspicious that he enlisted a friend of hers who was a railroad? Detective. Add was area, I guess, a ventilation guy. For the railroad, and so he knew this detective and I tried funny they. They taught mother papers, told the story of him putting on this hideous disguise. We all know by unable to new in any way. But he put on this weird and moustache and I guess their method of of investigating this report

was to go to the various bars around town and ask around, and so they ended up getting quite wrong. And they went to a bar. That's about what owned by a brother of a captain of detectives and when the bar owner got wind of what they were. Therefore, what was going on he sent for his brother was little Thomas Lenihan, the captain of police, and he heard the story, and he understood his suspicions that something bad might have happened to Hannah, but the only thing that they really have on. This point was bigger me because he had not got no divorce from from from Havana and Harry was married to animate gamble, and so let us have took the ten thirty trade.

From Hamilton to Indianapolis and he rested outward out of his bed at four o clock in the morning with the help of Indianapolis police and they and they brought her back to Hamilton I'll. Do it on the morning train. Now in this questioning, when they finally get him to question him, there are not just the only lend a hand on instrumental person. Is this mare, Charles Bosh? Isn't it yeah Charles Boss was in on it? Ah, the are the chief of police that I think the sheriff was there there's a relief famous picture that they did reproduce in my book. I wish they had, but it's on my website and so forth, pose with these detectives. The the safety director, the chief, we used the sheriff captain lend a hand and by

the boss, gavel around out offered while he signing this confession, so gather there were a lot of people involved in that now there they brought him in Fort for bigger me with a suspicion that he might have related want to mess with with trying to get an extradition or anything, and I guess you- simple minded enough that when they said we want to talk to you about Hannah, he got on the train and came back with them. Was it the newspapers got whether this and before they got back on the morning train from Indianapolis, the Hamilton sandwich kind of e, the most tabloid of the three papers and Hamilton at the time they had a big headlines, now arrested for murder and in all this stuff arrested for wife, murder startled affair are brought to light, and this came out before the train from Indianapolis got to town, so there were

the crowd of about three or four hundred people waiting for him at the station and bear in mind Alfred, always had this fantasy of of being in show. Business and although he will not just got I hand for the circumstance he worked for told everybody that he was a trap, ease, arms, and so he kind This idea of of of wanting this kind of fame and adulation, and so when it came into Hamilton on the trade in all these people were there. You know he was for him that made quite an impression on awning, and so they took

remember the police stations and late. These five very high powered officials started sword grown in short, given in the the sweat they called. It start giving the sweat, and ah he was. He was quite you know he wouldn't tell you, wasn't tell them anything and but they would time somethin in and so were. The policemen would leave the room to go check it out and then That happened a few times and it came down to. It was just him and Charlie Bosh Sittin in the his office in toys. The mayor's office together Hamilton that the city building contained use. Everything is just one building. So that's why the mayor and the chief of police, never by was in the same building an so having known Alfred before for witty live next door to in Africa. I know you got something on

her mind and offered so well. I can't tell you what it is, but I'll write it down for you and so that the mayor gave you a pencil and a piece of paper and he wrote out a confession. That said. Not only did he kill Hannah that now that the first say he just said that he had killed Hannah now and but he was very quiet about it and I have that he had other things on his mind and so after Ebay, the confession they took him out of a policeman with all the press following along, and I took it down to the river he showed aware the bought where he put the box in the river. It was efficient hold it that everybody liked to go to. He took em down there and he was. Very coin, the whole way there and all

they back. You know like. I got somethin else on my mind, but I dont want to tell you about it, and so the next day they decide to putting through the sweat again because they suspect that he had also killed his wife. Jenny No, it was a rule suicide officially by the coroner they had the inquest and everything rain. So they thought they maybe he'd killed. Is his wife, Jenny too, and so the next day they they gave him this. And the kind of the same thing happened all over again. They would somebody would leave the room to go check out something that offered was telling. And left him alone. Eventually with the mayor and the mayor did the same thing, Charlie Albert, I know

You got something on your mind and Alfred said. Well, I can't tell you what I'll write it down, and so I gave another pencil piece of paper and he rode up the famous confession that not only did he kill Hannah, but he also killed his previous wife Jenny and he also killed two other three other young Ladys, two or three other young Ladys in Cincinnati, Indianapolis and so. The Hamilton play Hamilton was about twenty thousand people, then so it wasn't a real big city and my take on this is that they really didn't know what to do with it. You know and showing, when the word came out, that he had confessed to these these murders that the press,

since Mattie and Indianapolis, and there is even some reporters from Chicago. I found some reports in the Chicago papers. They all descended on Hamilton, like maybe a hundred newspaper, guys or so, and they did know what to do with them. So they gave him. They gave the newspaper men pretty much full access to talk without it and to get the stories of these murders that he says he committed right. Let's use this as an opportunity to stop for a second talk about our sponsor, which is ritual. We deserve to know what were putting in our bodies and why that's? Why rich? most boundaries on a mission to reinvent the vitamin industry, catch nighter and team of scientists at ritual It clinically tested a new normal which will left out mystery additives synthetic fillers and shady extras that can be found in some traditional multivitamin. My wife LISA decided to take ritual after

reading all about their specific ingredients and the advantage. Of those as compared to multi vitamins and decided to take ritual essential for women. She's incorporated for about six months now ritual in our daily routine of exercise and healthy eating, and she continues to feel it really is. Making a difference in our health. Everyday rich clinical study of essential for women, showed an increase in vitamin d levels and make a three Yea J levels for obsessive label readers ritual uses begins certified non GMO glue, free and allergen free ingredients and their sources are out there for the whole world to see because they believe you deserve to know what you're putting in your body and why daily changes can lead to big results so start small. Ritual, is offering my listeners ten percent off your first three months. Try it out, said faction guaranteed go to ritual

calm, slash, murder. The start, your ritual today, that's ten percent off during your first three months at ritual dot, com, slash murder, now we're talking about in a credible time in american history of media when the newspapers were the only game in town and they were a huge game to say the least, and you talk about the incredible It's amazing! Reading this, the access, the vision, journalists These media people had, and the kind of story is that they waved in the headlines that they used in their newspapers, tell us more or about his dalliance with the media and the results in terms of headlines and newspaper articles

As I said, I, I don't think they they knew what to do a common. This was before we had the laws and all this other stuff, and and so they just gave him access. Not one of my favorite scenes in the in the book, I think, is late date. They take the reporters to his jail cell. There was there we're gonna, let him talk to him through the bars, but they were so many of them that they had to retire to the sheriffs dining room now go back in those days. The sheriff typically in this was everywhere, but especially Hamilton. The sheriff had the house like right next door to the jail and allow time they were attached to it. So they, They took him out of the jail cell and took him into the share of dining room, and some reports even said that sheriff bids dwarf gave him a cigar, and so they paint this richer. Of him sitting in the dining room, kick back with a speed up on the table regale. I knew the these. This cadre of reporters

with these stories of of murder- and may I am asked- Only in this was enthusiastically as if as if he were talking about your sporting event or something of that sort. And so he decided, we release tales about the these young women that here, tortured and murdered and awe and woods, link. The interviews with God, the sincere I inquired, because road to the murders had taken place and sensible free of not taken place, Cincinnati, so they were particularly and arrested because all these murders an unsolved- and here I was Alfred nap- this crate. The little guy and Hamilton Ohio saying that he killed all these women so the headlines Where are you all over India, Annapolis, Cincinnati Chicago all over the MID west? They would they were telling these stories in, and it got to the point where they thought like he was kind of stretching the truth, a little bit

In fact, they call him out at one time after you been in there for a while. He started talking about this time in Missouri when he was being chased by a party and stop it hidden. One another yeah orders that I welcome. It wasn't that just a minute above this magazine in an operative. Ok, while you caught me on that one, and that is totally stories just kind of made, that the headlines across the MID West were were just sensational when I woke the scene in the book, what I call you took, because some newspapers would highlight all the things that will be of interest to them leaders and other newspapers would highlight different things, so you can put em all the other and got a really good, see no of what had happened that afternoon in the in the sheriffs dining room there in Hamilton, when he first

was speaking to two were Krueger and in a police chief and a sheriff he he was talking about. It seemed died for the time for nineteen or for its, unlike present day where he talked about. If you can't find a body, I fathers was very fascinating. What did you have to say about the prospect of being convicted? There was no finding of the body, you didn't think you would get rough. He didn't think you would get convicted, as it has been for years ah well. He described it sir. He said he said to them our nationally. When you watch him, he said if you won't be able convict. Unless you find that body- and I just again- I just thought that sounds like. Modern day thing for a criminal to say, not

do not worry about the prosecutor would say in that too, though, that must they gonna buy. He did know what they could do with while a court harm right. But not the prosecutor was a hour, was very well respected Man and Hamilton. He would his father his brother, I. That is why Father too late, they were newspaperman date, but his brother at the time was the the publisher of that. The democratic news. Paper and Hamilton and ARM and war guard. The hour was: was the prosecutor on them, yeah and he also went on to become a judge later, and he also became a congressmen later on to the eye was risk and contention

that unless they had a body. He didn't think that they would be able to convince them of this, partly because his stories were kind of outlandish, and so so I guess, fortunately, a few day of a couple weeks into his incarceration, the body of Hannah turned up in New Albany Indiana Some one hundred and fifty four hundred sixty miles from Hamilton was found by the USA on a ferry there and as they were crossing the river they found or floating in the in the Ohio River. At this time she had flown that are. She was no longer in the box. They never did find the box. But they did turn up her body and also then they had a case against Alfred now for the murder of Hannah

thing also very interesting. There was a case of up of two girls. It were and they had a man named Raw Joe Roth, I believe in custody and and yet there he that nap had been questioned about this as well. And what are the orchard? One of the girls had identified Roth, so this is a very interesting, I guess side story but very fascinating about three someone's between nap and Roth and and how they became involved even at the trial and then later near the end of the book or at the very end of the book. So this, talk about Joe Ross and these two girls, these two young girls it were costed and Joe Rob, was in custody when they now have in custody, this strangler Alfred Nap Light

yeah the two little girls. I think they were like eleven seven years old or something like that very young, we'll girls, and they had last seen other father owned a butcher shop and they that's it, I'm working on a storm window there and then they came disappeared until they heard the screens and that two girls came right, one of whom was knocked unconscious and the other one got away and they brought in what hounds from Dayton to come down and and they ran around a part whose called pecs addition, which was a very poor part Hamilton, is a part of the city that was often flouted. The river. There was a low lying area, often flouted so have half the years. They would lose their crop, but nevertheless those very poor part of town. They grew melons and corn down there and

That's good! That's what happens when around in a car a circuitous route around packs addition and finally came upon the House of Joe LAW, and so they arrested him in the order of the girls actually identified waters, the man who accosted them, and so he was in jail at the time they buy. Nap in from India, Annapolis and they remarked at the time what are ya, what a strange and curious resemblance the two had together. They were both smallish man swarthy complexion and and apparently they looked a whole lot alike and,

Alfred had been question about this, because it is, I guess, because it is a criminal record, but they are, they headed up, testify in the trial, and but they could never. They could never actually painted on Alfred, so they went ahead and prosecuted Joe WAR for the for the attempted adoption of these little girl. You take us right. Sorry, you take us right into the court room with this case, and it was interesting, is the the one girl, I'm not sure, was Hattie or the other girl. But she's, like you, say, six years old, she is worse than that trial- to go and identify him by walking up to him and putting her hand on his shoulder was incredible At the same time, we also have the money where the media believes, and maybe even the defence believes order.

Prosecution believes that they'll be worthwhile testimony from nap, but nap doesn't give them anything conclusive to help last case, what and that's what you write. But I wanted I say, is that his behavior. Though, however, if I thought from reading was that because he had that demeanor at court uncooperative took the fifth. Equivalent where he didn't want to answer any questions, in fact, because what was quickly determined to be not guilty and acquitted, I thought that in fact, Alfred's presence, Alfred NAPS presence at their trial, actually help Joe Roth inadvertently yeah, probably the yeah probably there, but they couldn't actually pin it on him. Like you said he was being very cooperative

and so they just kind of that pilot. Let that go now wonder dimension to just for the readers as well. Is that what you provide is lot of a lot of source material like letters that outward later rights, correspondence the confession, but also what I thought was worth noting is the illustration of the murder in nineteen thirty four by the evening sun, any provide a great. Right, the reproduction of that. So I want to mention that that's part in the book as well, this incredible the media, how they act in nineteen, thirty, four hard to believe. But anyway, I just want to mention that now. That was a crazy things. Along that line is that the are since my inquirer, they publish pictures of his hand so that jobs, so that so that poverty,

could take a look at that and whether he was guilty or not. So that- and I think that that those how they were so desperate to outdo each other geared to want help each other in trying to cover this case either. Not now I did they go into his family history and so much detail, but they would do crazy. Things like that, like printing is part of it. You could read his palm and tell it in the hands of a sprang to her. I think, would go ahead. With great yeah. You also have the the I guess: do you chronicle the phenomena, basically a firm of having Alfred Nap depicted in in the media the way he did as well? So so,

in terms of what happens with this trial thought our audience, who eventually is radio He retains attorney and whose representing them in this, what his Turkey is a young power by the name of Thomas Darby and again this is one of the sub parts that I thought totally fascinating about it. The Thomas Darby it was a young up and coming Cincinnati attorney, and he worked so hard on this case that that he almost literally work himself to death and in fact, when they deliver the verdict, he wasn't present because he was so sick and on. He would later go on to become a Hamilton county prosecutor, so he was. This was like. Is his big foray into your big wasna tone, so tell us a little bit more about this trial end and what?

and part of the answer before this trial, there's always the and the investigation into the claims that he made in his confession, he's made various confessions or had spoken to the media several times and said certain things were their inconsistencies that were given in the confession, as opposed to what he said to the media and officially what were the records to support? What nap had said concerning those four murders? Wow, you know frankly, there there wasn't a la to actually connected to these murders. Now what our home, where we talk about Journey nap and how it had already been, ruled a suicide, but then he confirmed that he yeah he killed her but another one.

Was in the case of a young lady by the name of Mary occurred in Cincinnati, and she was a date and grow who came to Cincinnati to get work. She had some connections there, but they want we'll strong ones. Also, she took a room in a boarding house. Next to the wall I see, I think, was on eighth street in Cincinnati and was looking for work and one morning no man was coming around, and I guess I don't know they did this, but apparently she just bought a late or full of milk. And you didn't have any money, and so he just let her have it, but the man saw a kind of strange character, hanging around the fence at the time it took note of it

the later that day, which would she turned out dad the suspicion fell on this. This unknown stranger who was hanging around the gate, but the milkman whatsoever, about the county jail to visit, nap and said that he wasn't the guy and so this this the stranger yet remained mystery, and in the case of Bob it was a little man. She was. Out in a lumberyard. She was a young girl. She was only like thirteen, and are her father had seen her around them lumberyard that day, and he too had seen a stranger, and so he came in to to look at her, and he too said no, I dont know this man so that there was a whole lot to connect them these the murders. So when he went to trial it was. It was purely

poor, the murmur of his his third wife Hannah. Yet you talked about two. They finally found somebody who had helped him carry the box downstairs, so they had that to confirm that he had certainly murdered Hannah didn't write. Yes, they do what they want for home. There was pretty clear that yeah yeah yeah good. Also I was gonna, say the phenomena that I was mentioning everyday for. I lost my train of thought was that was interesting

the reasoning. People thought that Alfred not might not want to admit to the monster girls being accosted since Joe Rob was been arrested. I guessed around that same time. What was the phenomena that we don't know of today, but it is interesting to hear that they said was the reason why Alfred not might not want to admit that he attacked those monster. Girls, To give you a bit more and that it was lynching who is the phenomenon of which all the lids ok yeah, yeah yeah? I doubt that the people were outside the job,

people were very upset when, when the monster girls were not adopted but assaulted, and yet he was afraid that the that they were gonna lynching for that. So that was one of the reasons why he didn't you. You didn't say anything about that and it was kind of a contrary in it. At the end trial, even though they had an testify against it, and I was the euro. That was a real concern back in those days.

I do a lot of stories now about about the young, the joy, any justice and repeat that people in fact the same year that guy that that this took place in Oxford, Ohio, which is near Hamilton. There was a case where two guys from came in during a festival and were shooting the place up and there they killed the account constable and so that the Father of the conference Letter crowd down to the jail in Oxford and with Sledge hammer they both of them out and they were gonna hanging in the public square, but a sheriff deputy sheriff came along and saved him in the Nick of time, so this was probably brush on outwards. Mine too, you know the case of the Spidey brothers in and how they were land attempted the lunchroom so yeah. This was a very, very real threat in those days now,

we haven't talked about. Is the term of course, with this travel, the defence tries to pick or has the pic probable defence that might work that may work with this, and so will I'll ask you what route that they go in terms of their defence, but also that we skeptical of the this fact was that when he wept went to testify for thee. Your wife trial and in this trial is well tell us what his demeanor, but also how is addressed to say that he was well dressed. Said, the new labelling without emotion, it was the best while dress guy, I'm in the courtroom and it was really in. He was concerned about that so that it was important to him and the east,

and the media responded as while you say right right, yeah you is, it would seem to be very well at ease in India and in the trial bear their defense was basically in insanity, the girls I mentioned Earlier- Darby having cut Tear very close so that they could see that the the horseshoe shape scar on his head from where he was kicked in the head by a horse and lake. They came out with all these stories about. You know him MA causing the young Ladys in enough. I guess he he got. They are achieved or something on a group of people, one point, and so they brought out all these little things that he had done through the years to try and get this insanity differ, but didn't work it. It did come down. Getting prestigious doctors at that time. You right now.

One of them was somebody in the court room. He had. He was a prestigious and important author and he couldn't he wasn't involved the trial, but he was commenting in making his comments known to the media, so he was like he was reporting You do you talk about that. They brought everybody in his family mother sister, everybody to to weave a story to come hard to say that he was normal. He was a high degree disposition, and then he got kicked in the head at a young age and any fell off. The porch and then other things that they noticed it. His nickname was loony and then men also peppered through this whole book- is that he tells people stories like I'm a detective and chosen a crappy little badge and held him is an acrobat, so he's not taken seriously by some people

with his stories in this as well. Do you have the it seems, a battle of these psychiatrists and those people trying to save Alfred NAPS life but, as you say, to no avail, No, no, it's it's to no avail. He's he's pretty pretty readily convicted of first degree murder they send them off to Columbus. He good momentarily You get a retrial, but then that decision was overturned, Retrial never happen, so did come back the Hamilton at one point, but he's he felt like he had the way that he was gonna beat the electric chair, he told one reporter that that if he held his arms and just the right manner that the electricity would just roll right through them and wouldn't kill him, so he was going to do was going to beat it that way.

Right all along the media. He cooperated with the media. What was his disposition with the meat it was a brave or fearful He wasn't, he was lovingly attention. I think that's why he kept coming up with these these great score you know at any had a pretty good memory because he got most of the dates and a lot of the details right on all these murders that he said he committed is it's so he had that go in form, but but everything was so outlandish and retarded insanity, defence and they have a family pitted against each other. You know, maybe maybe king and her husband were the ones who you ve got the ball in motion to two to have him arrested for forget. Rather Hannah Bulgaria had another sister Sadie

who was very much his champion and she went out of a way to try and you'd tell these stories about getting hit my head and and about the strange things he did to try getting that in fantasy depends, and she was quite a story. In character, and I spent quite a bit of time in the book I think describing her appearance. She first comes into the story, When he's having his preliminary hearing and end, the newspapers were just taken aback by this. She lip liking, but she was beautiful. You know when she was very elegant and distrust of the nine and she was she was his championship. He she really want. The bat born

and then what they gave him, but the death penalty. She cried really hard to LA. She wanted to be, therefore, and she wanted to be in the room and eventually they just they just would let her do that. Lets we're gonna pause for a moment for these commercials. You talked about safety and and her unwavering. It seemed support and we'll talk more about safety, because she is such an important character in a story, but also safety, blame her sister Mamie, Edward right from the very beginning for turning a man. What was her her? What was her sense? Why why? Why would she attacker sister for just doing something? It was morally right. What was sir idea about that tourism?

It was mostly just her loyalty to operate on. She knew that he was young My dad reminded that if he did kill Hannah, he didn't mean to, and if he did these other things he let mean to. You know that that's just heart care can't skipper. And it doesn't have to add pen, medicines, heart and vascular center. We continue to provide America's most advanced cardiovascular care, with telemedicine, appointments in the comfort of your own home and in person visits and procedures in a safe environment. Caring for You remains our highest priority. Your heart, health doesn't have to wait, to a heart and vascular specialist today schedule an appointment at pen, medicine, dot, Org, slash, heart and vascular. Your health first Cooper University Healthcare. That's our aim Our doors are open. In fact, they never closed The world has changed. When you visited Cooper Office, things may be a little different, new, safe,

in place, but our medical experts to putting your health first remains unchanged. Your health is important to us, so don't let your health care. Offices are safe because we put your health first, Cooper, University, health care as nature, and that that he should be given some latitude for that. You know it so she cried really hard to do smooth things over form very little avail you write to it's interesting is the the trial had huge, out an interest in these information especially had full overflowing crowds both through the attorneys defence, Darby and the prosecutor.

Both did masterful, as you write, masterful sarmatians, enclosing arguments I'll tell us a little bit about just those causing argives what basically they had to say in on behalf of and against Alfred Nap. Well, God said that are that they should be swayed by cinema to save him from the Electric chair, Yeah he's has his take was that society demands that he be put out of the way and that the electric chair, which was rather new at the time, was a humane way of doing it and Thomas Dhabi is, as we mentioned, hee hee literally worked himself said and as he was given his his final plea in front of the judge and jury, he pretty much

collapse and the war in Gaza. The prosecutor kind of cotton in helping to the judges chamber where he could recover, and so that was just one of many dramatic moment in the trial. There was also a dramatic reconciliation depleted two sisters outside the courtroom. So there is a lot at Rome and there too said the crowds yeah. They would that be were hanging from the windows and in all that crazy sought the date that they will do it back in the day to try and get into the court room and was very hot summer to so kindly trying time for everybody, let's we haven't mentioned and which is important too. Other side. Part of the story. Very important is his fourth wife, anime, originally. What was her? What was she like with the media which he asked

stated the media nationally and then, as this trial was going on. Where was enemy yeah yeah, I think she's, one of my favorite character is another one of my burglar, so many great bear isn't this. What am I gonna talk earlier? She was kind of a simple minded girl and the first Roy. What we get introduced to Europe and any Annapolis newspaper man goes to their little dingy. Apartment too were to ask her. She had ever woken up in the middle of the night, with Alfred NAPS Pan surrounding wrote. That was his question for and see what We were just infuriated with it. You know to see basically kick me now in our and they describe her. Her shrill voice why the out of the low basement apartment and going out into the street and her her decrepid old Foster Father

the civil war veterans. You they were living in this world dingy apartment on his pension Edna and hand how he, how much he loved her and they were they both loved Alfred, to see with the Hamilton at one point, and then there is very good show about. She took cooking some clothes and a cock, a clock and that they are. They were afraid that She was gonna, try, slipping weapon or a poison is something so that the kind of held back onto on some other stuff. But she made quite a splash and Hamilton too, and she pretty much stood beside him ass, much ass. She could, but she did not come to the trial and she cried disappeared a little, but I think she got meekly married later and but she died very young lady a few things, quite a character, it back one of my presentations. I do that the libraries and stuff like I take these. The sections where we talk about

may gamble now and costs make us boy out of them, despite by itself. You notes with very entertaining you say that defence attorney Darby this unusual. He cried when the vote, was red, Binny yeah. Now what you're again he'll hear what they call it brings just an I don't know. I don't know what that means, but But he was sick and so yeah he was, he was very upset. He took it very personally. I think that's what made A great lawyer and why you went on to do good things that he really took this case, the heart and he and he worked as bought off offer now interesting. You re too, that eighty women brought flowers to jail for the strangler He was popular with the Ladys with caught up.

Our american popular with people who caught him, but the first celebrity serial killer because you're up to that point, Well, it wasn't no such a plague, Iago Farm, a serial killer. Now this was after H, H, homes and and and of course, Jack the ripper and in some other right, some other things, but that but Alfred now I think, was the first one who really caught, call the public. I you know and then got this adulation and adoration, especially from from the women you know from the women in, and they would come out, your dress for the ninth could come to see the trial in and they would through if he looked in their direction and those kinds of thing, and yet they body, flowers and- and so here, yeah. He really made quite an impression of people in Spain. If I'm being a simple urine and, to my mind rather stupid

our apparently he had a dynamic Dinah charisma about him that that really captured people's attention. And many people want to talk to him, whether it be the reporters word or do the women they say they were, they were kind of taken. Without you know, they were kind of him and are you- I got things out about looking for you, I don't know. I look at this picture and he looked very sad to me. You write to the report finally tracked down a gamble, an outer new house, and me, Why would the reporters worth ten women were there and they were of taunting Anna and so and she vowed and she was real defiant right from the very first time she speaks the media. I thought these while feisty and she vowed to go see

husband, but he said he would go to Hamilton for the trial, even if she had the water. Of course she didn't hear. Now. He heads off to Columbus, Ohio. And right away, they don't fool around that he's. The Guy the county jail, the warden says we ve had enough of the circus for six months and so ships him off. Columbus, Ohio State, Penetrate Ohio, state penitentiary. He still talking reporters there isn't any. What's his mean our yeah by the time he gets there while he still alarm he still disabled same old girl offered. You know he he's he doesn't seem to get upset or depressed about his situation, some somebody gave him. I guess I'm a quarry, and so he was quietly.

Courtier Molly was waiting on death row. I think a song was there's a hot time in the old town tonight was found that he played over in a while. You, you said too that the inmates to fellow inmates the prisoners were horrified by his lack of remorse and no jokes. He did about his crimes and his upcoming execution yeah yeah. He he didn't seem to have a bit of conscience about it at all. You know never, never, never, really showed and remorse something that might have upset him greatly was happened in September.

Any finally heard from his fourth wife. We call Danny are part me Anna and enemy. What did she say to him? Essentially in that when she finally did get to speak to you It's not too was not happy. I think she finally came around to realise that that he had done some some bad thing and that the letter she was was rife with misspelling, but she said that she she had received his letters and and was glad to hear from me, but but but huge, you sorry that the way that he talked to her and she she expressed shame of herself a kind of took the blame herself for upwards.

I've been unhappy to have to try to do the things that he did and he here she wasn't. Gonna get a divorce and in sheer, encourage deemed to cheer up and in the. But you never did come to see him in the in the jail, except for that. One time and Hamilton never came to see him in Columbus and and did not attend his his execution. I want to set a new execution date. Finally, is Alfred Knapp? What's his Demeter now, but it looks like there's no more there's nothing left in terms of appeals and he's going to die in the electric chair. What does that mean, Well, he does show a little bit of remorse for something and he wants. Are he specifically asked Mayor toy bars to to counter the execution

and he gave him a note that he finally confessed to be tempted, adoption or the assault on the on the march of girls and and finally clear Joe Roar of the suspicion that so so he finally made it clear that that that one, I think that's what you get that right, yeah. What he also hinted that there was less or more to his confessions, instilled in believe, is gonna get the electric chair. He thought that the governor was still going to make sure that he didn't he wasn't killed

But all the was left in this where safety comes in again, safety is still trying as hard as we can to save her brothers life, and there was only one more option and that's the State Board of pardons they can send. They can commute the sentence to lie and there's no: U S Supreme Court federal issues. His attorneys agree. There. Nothing to appeal in terms of theirs. Issues there to appeal. So this is the only chance is a state border pardons and they're gonna decide fairly quickly, yeah, while late, they decided. They would go through with the execution? Eva got Charlie Goddard?

ah Hannah's uncle, who raised her they've got down to it to talk to the board of pardons, but but nothing came of that, and so they finally set up a final execution date. In August of that year, safety even approached the former jurors to try to ask them for if they would help and declined in my right yeah she she really did she really work. She really went above and beyond, to try and get Alfred out of this, despicable that he found himself in butter but to no avail to no avail. Now it's four days before his execution. What does he? What? What did we try to do with another inmate while he sleeps August fifteenth

yeah. They may accused him of making an attack on another prisoner that again. He in the middle of the night, comes out even asleep wrangling and sober I make a plea that you're he wasn't on your charge of his faculties. This was not a part of his insanity again that he would attack a prisoner grimace. Same area, taxes, wife and and lady said to when he was confronted with the idea that he choked his guys at all. I never touched the guy so again front, not knowing what he was doing was sort of his last ditch effort to prove that He could strangle someone in the middle of the night that did come up and in the court trial as well, that somehow that he did notice is doing, and someone testify to that they woke up.

It wasn't him and his eyes. She has only been attempted to do their work, that he was some ottoman and didn't wasn't aware of his his behavior Life murder, you as it turns out. There was another case in Hamilton about the same time, of our new slit. His wife's wrote in the middle of the night. The guy he had, the yeah. They sleep, Walker differ, which is what our animals is, but I drive a car, but I think the other guy squaw about born so so, headed quite by letting the sleep walking and not in control himself, so that, like I came up a gear, its fascinating to two. When you're reading you forget the times, you know when you read about the media. This behaviour. That's been dispelled people thinking that the media are now so sensational, mystic, no.

Not new, but also the idea of the term yeah, just just add that idea that he could ensure that the same things. What would we be prevalent in today's society and that being that in eighteen o, for they had the same kinds of ideas for novel defences. Like sleep walking, defence, you would think that that would have something in the seventies eighties, nineties now writing off. Well now, now No one would think that figure. We talk about the toy for our new cycle here, but I think the other, how how I began the book with him coming off the train. A meeting that that crowd at the Hamilton station because Only book yelled at his brother, King and the detective, it was just the day before that they were in town and are not people got wind of it. Then that, though they had it out by the next morning and all about crowd.

Showed up in that kind of what I think inspired Alfred's confessed. All these murderers was just the them, the celebrity the stood the instant notoriety that he got and people were taken with him and he thinking you love that. I think he just enjoy the attention that he would kick back and in time on these stories, and- and he had a good memory form and apparently was a really good story yeah. But it's always what is the actual truth, and so near the end of the book. At the very end of the book, the sister safety comes to visit and she says tell me the truth. Alfred was your confession. True, and then I thought this was incredibly poetical in the shadow of the gallows. Will you tell me the truth and what does he say in terms of was the truth? He

tell her that the only motor that he committed was that of Hannah? And what did she say what she almost collapses when she hears when he says I'm only guilty of hammer right yeah. He was stopped taken that he wasn't gonna go to the chair, though, But yes, you rode up and down, and she was.

I think she was quite relieved actually that he didn't do all those things, but even as if telling Hannah wasn't bad now right, yeah yeah, but she had such she had such faith in him that if he did do it, he was insane. She just didn't want to believe that he was capable of this there is you call it one. Last confession person named Gb Sims regarding Joe Rock: they discuss giraffe and the guilt of drove off. What did Alfred Nap say about that and what he did he offered you do why he confirmed that. He said that there is no, that he who wrote to boss, he wrote the boss, but boss never never showed up soon able to Mr Sam and he said the girl.

Is innocent of the attack on the two martyr girls. He says I I done that myself, but there was no intention of committing rape on them. I am doing this the clear Joe last name is: I assaulted the children myself, it was the distances meant there right incredible not the day before so that's Bosh mere Marsh shows up at the execution August. Nineteen nineteen o four As you right tell us just a little bit about, I guess how well that execution went on well by the papers, called it the most successful in the history of electrocution, that that day it was the out the war,

It was his last execution there at the penitentiary, and there were physicians who knew him who he is bided too well to be those who declared in dad you're. They gave him the before job, and then he don't help. He tried to hold his body and that procure your way to the latter. We will not be the better, but it didn't work, it didn't work and of course I did not say, but she wasn't Columbus and she helping the body, and actually it was quite a quite a big zero said that the three thousand people showed up his services. But but but then, when they went to the funeral it was. It was just saying, and

I think there is one other unknown companion so that the family, you glad to say that the family reconciled Mayo, Bosh, returned to Hamilton and share the confession of with the martyrs about the monster girls, and he told him that he thought it was true and so outwards, cunt careers. The greatest greatest criminals of the current era was over and and they they bury demon therein Columbus in the prison jail and the prison graveyard gap. You add one thing as well: Disturbed people had contended that Anna may and Alfred Nap had conceived a child rule, There are rumours that, but, but apparently it wasn't true- I mean you know things go

They are. The Indianapolis news reported that she had to give up the child to do to the children's guardians, because the boar being of the opinion that she wasn't it fit person the care for the child. But what I think when you sit down, look at you know when the child is born, he would have been safely and sky. In the in jail time. The baby would have been can see. So it was not possible for him to a far too a father to child and so she did remarry later on about her cheek, she died became a widow again, and Actually, she married another time and then now she died. While she was in her thirty's.

I want to thank you so much for coming on and talking about the first celebrity serial killer in Southwest Ohio confessions of the strangler Alfred Nap, you Richard old jobs, is there a website that people might take a look at this book or tell us about how they my contact. You ll find out more about your work Ok! Well, I also do a podcast myself. It's called true, crying historian Basically, what I do is I pick cases here. I think the sweet spot is from about eighteen. Seventy two about nineteen because, as I researched these, that the store, They are not others like. I really fell in love with the way that they reported on things back. Then. You know they were They had right in ways that I always wanted to when I was reported, but couldn't get away with. That is being very descriptive and being very narrative in their approach.

In writing, and today you thought you knows the inverted pyramid and chunks of facts and not so much worry telling so I fell in love with all that, and so I started doing. Podcast called true. Cried historian will go through the old newspapers and put out sections of the case. You know when they find the body and when they make the arrest and when they interview the girl next door- and you know all these other things and end portal Sixteen ninety minute narrative that would that reads almost like a short story, most of the time when it, when I'm really good one really successful with it. It'll read like a short story, but it's based on all this wonderful newspaper reporting that they did back then, and so I do have a website. It's true, crying historian dot com where you can find the pod cast.

On your whatever parkers player. You listen to you and I have other other tales of of murder and mayhem through the ages is kind of one. Hoping to do. I really enjoy doing that I do a story every week in this story, every outside ass, thick and I'm sure it people of letters will turn it, as I will as well Thank you so much. The first celebrity serial killer in South West Ohio confessions of the Strangler Alfred Nap Richard O Jones. Thank you so much for this has been absolute pleasure. You have a great evening. Thank you. Have me damn good great beyond your show and look where did tat unworthy again, maybe some time about, though my other books absolutely. Good night good night stand tall, laugh with your own body sleep well at night. If you ve been suffering with chronic back or neck paying you

serve to do the things that bring you joy again. There is only one of you and the pen. Spine centre are nationally renown, specialist collaborate working diligently and thoroughly to deliver only the right treatment for you all. Safe and secure environment is another reason why your life is worth pen, medicine in person and virtual women's available tap now or visit pen, medicine, dot, Org, slash spine your health first Cooper University. Healthcare. That's our aim: Our doors are open. In fact they never closed, the world has changed. When you visited Cooper Office, things may be a little different new safe. In place, but our medical experts commitment to putting your health first remains unchanged. Your health is important to us, so don't delay your health care. Offices are safe because we put your health first Cooper, university health care