The Pharmacist of Auschwitz is the little known story of Victor Capesius, a Bayer pharmaceutical salesman from Romania who, at the age of 35, joined the Nazi SS in 1943 and quickly became the chief pharmacist at the largest death camp, Auschwitz. Based in part on previously classified documents, Patricia Posner exposes Capesius’s reign of terror at the camp, his escape from justice, fueled in part by his theft of gold ripped from the mouths of corpses, and how a handful of courageous survivors and a single brave prosecutor finally brought him to trial for murder twenty years after the end of the war.The Pharmacist of Auschwitz is much more, though, than a personal account of Capesius. It provides a spellbinding glimpse inside the devil’s pact made between the Nazis and Germany’s largest conglomerate, I.G. Farben, and its Bayer pharmaceutical subsidiary. The story is one of murder and greed with its roots in the dark heart of the Holocaust. It is told through Nazi henchmen and industrialists turned war criminals, intelligence agents and zealous prosecutors, and intrepid concentration camp survivors and Nazi hunters. Set against a backdrop ranging from Hitler’s war to conquer Europe to the Final Solution to postwar Germany’s tormented efforts to confront its dark past, Posner shows the appalling depths to which ordinary men descend when they are unrestrained by conscience or any sense of morality. The Pharmacist of Auschwitz is a moving saga that lingers long after the final page. THE PHARMACIST OF AUSCHWITZ: The Untold Story-Patricia Posner
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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You are now listening to true murder, the most shocking killers and true crime history and the authors that have written about Gacy, Bundy Dahmer, the night Stalker Ttk every week, another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers crime, room murder, with your host journalist and author Dan is a fancy good evening, the pharmacist of arch with is a little known story of Victor Capricious. A bear. Pharma typical salesman from Romania at the age of thirty five joined the Nazi SS in nineteen forty three and quickly be
came to chief pharmacist at the largest death camp aushwitz, based in part on previously classified documents Patricia PA, exposes the pcs. Rain of terror at the camp is escape from justice, fueled in part by his theft of gold ripped from the mouths of corpses. And how a handful of courageous survivors in a single br, Prosecutor finally brought him to trial for murder. Twenty years after the end of the war, the pharmacist of our switches much more, though than a purse, account of of Confucius, it provides a spell, blinding glimpse inside the devil's pact made between the knots he's in Germany's largest conglomerate, Ig Farben, and it's bear pharmacy Google subsidiary. The is one of murder and greed with its roots, the dark heart of the Holocaust, it is told, Do not see henchman and industrialist, turned war, criminals, intelligence, Jensen, zealous prosecutors and Intrepid
Concentration, camp survivors and nazi hunters set against the backdrop, ranging from Hitler's war to conch, Europe to the final solution to post war, tormented efforts to confront its dark. Past Posner shows the appalling depth to which ordinary men to descend. When they are unrestrained by conscience or any sense of morality, the pharmacist of of which is a moving saga that lingers long after the final page. The book that were featuring this evening is the pharmacist of Aushwitz, the untold with my special guest journalist and author, Patricia Posner. Welcome to the probe. And thank you very much for agreeing to this interview Patricia Posner. A good evening time. Thank you very much for having me and let me tell my story very much appreciate Thank you. Thank you very. Much. This is a great glitch here and very into
to have this and profile this very incredible book. Let's start with one thousand nine hundred and eighty six, how you came to your the co author of twelve books? Well, I'm not really up. Also I mean unofficial cause or my husband is really the author of the book say I just do the research editing archive work. I mean we do as much as I do on his books. He did with me on this book. This book would not be possible without him, so I think that's I have to look at it, so everything I've learned, I've learned from him, but getting to Do you mean one thousand nine hundred and eighty six, how the book came about. Yes in jail as when Gerald wrote the book of Mangla, and it was was finally published and that that was an interesting time. Becaus I had not met Rolf Mengele, which is Joseph the sun
the angel of death from Auschwitz, and and he had said in the the meetings that he wanted to meet me because Gerald was meeting, with him because they were going to do in the parents on the Phil Donahue show for anyone that remembers. The Phil Donahue Show before that, the other type Those came out crazy reality shows he was still doing some good stuff, and I was very apprehensive, the time to meet with him. And basically just to give you a little bit of background on that, why was that British obviously an I was brought up in London as a conservative Jew and my family Woodley and buy anything german. I was very, I was bullied at school. You know dirty Jew or Jews. Have big noses or Jews have big feet head down the toilet, Foster 'cause on the death. So I split up in that kind of environment where
everybody also in the family, participated in world war, two, whether it was liberating camps, driving an ambulance, You know in London during evacuation work, so my my apprehension I kept on thinking. Can I really do is? Can I meet this man and I was worried as crazy as this sounds. What was my mother thinking of? What would my mother? Think of me, you know and being that you know, Mangala was the most notorious knots. The analysis with medical experiments and selecting hundreds of thousands to die, even though I know intellectually with some was not to blame for this. I just still. But eventually you know I decided I would go and in fact you know I sent to jail have to meet somewhere. That no one will see me and know who I am or know who he was and we met in the Plaza hotel. There was trying to fix their and we met in this. Call corner and
we sat down and really we were both so uncomfortable you could tell we were as nervous as could be I mean, but you know everything quickly started to dissolve. In front of us. It melted away, and you know I was looking at him and thinking you know what must he think this is the man that might have the dna from my path long term from his father. So during the So when we were chatting he started telling Gerald. You know an myself how his father is scaped, and you mentioned only a few months after the war had ended, that his father had gotten so Pavan immunity from a pharmacist with whom he had served on the eastern front before he was transferred to Auschwitz and Roll said that his father's old car it had helped him, despite knowing all the gruesome stuff that had taken place there and that he had been friends with somebody else. It worked at Auschwitz called victory copy and he was the pharmacist
and I was like wow pharmacist I don't know why I didn't think to myself at that time. There would be a pharmacist analysis, but it was. I was really taken back by it and later on the walk home I jail. Now I we talked about this and of course, in those days you can just come home and go on your ipad or computer and google it and see who they were get, maybe Wika Pedia on it or something. So I started in the back of my head and decided one day. I would revisit this story and that's basically how it all started now this story of Victor no problem. Thank you, the story of Victor Capacious. You talk about his room it's Indiana he's, not a native German, so his roots in Romania, which explains so many things later in the story, so tell us a little bit about him background and interestingly, where, where he was born, just well. The interesting part about the pieces is that
he wasn't political, that was, that was the other about him that wasn't like doing those signs of syphilis before the war he represented this emerging. You know educated middle class Romanians from from a german family. There were a lot of what they called ethnic Germans in Romania and he died, is in Romania that in Vienna he gets a pharmacy degree and he's focus, as I said before, mom business, not on politics. I did not find in any of my research is beginning. There was anything there about anti Semitism or any of that type of stuff or But he lands a job in Romania with bear by the industrial conglomerate, ig, Farben and he's NASH sales Rep,
she came, though, from Transylvania, which is funny at the famous town of Dracula and that's way size and that's where he he's a national sales Rep, and he has like remember, which is interesting, because you read the book, so you know this so well. He has a you know, may the jewish clients and doctors and pharmacy the medical conditions. Even you know, textile manufacturers 'cause of a dice who needed needed the bear dies, so he was around all of these people and although some of his friends are rabid, as I said that or anti Semites It does not show any hostility towards the Jews and then very interesting June, though he marries a woman, that's half jewish, that she becomes Lutheran, afters off this half jewish. So it's a very odd situation there now, but you also talk about the sentiment that
prevalent in Romania at that time, and you say is- is also other satellite countries from Russia. So tell us what the sentiment was towards jewish people there and then, at the same time where he is born it's yeah. Well, you know a lot of the antisymmetric is along hist. With hatred. I mean it's hundreds of years. I mean, I don't know where. If it starts, you know all the way back to the killing of Christ or but it's definitely there there. There is this fever of rabid, anti semites that, even though he was around Environment, there's no doubt it still did not seem to bring it
into his area. I mean, as I said before, he married a woman of the top jewish I mean, but the anti semitic problem is is something new. I mean, as you read it. Well I've written in that. It's just that. It's in the transylvania was a home of what the oldest jewish communities. Tracing Tracy is, back to what I can't remember. Hundreds of things, eight thousand seven hundred and eighty something like that, but historically is suffering with searches, Anti Semitism in an hour, and so much of your had If it is, you know, by by visit, is just it's just if if you read the history, I think through there You know where pinpointing, but it always relates back to notes. If you go into the money, lending parts as I said, the Christ grilling of Christ. I think there's so many. It's inbred into these. People and it goes through generations, and we
we're going to research and if it now yeah, certainly now you talk about PC's career being erupted, one thousand nine hundred and forty three obviously for service in the german army in you thought you say you right there He thought it was more honorable to serve Germany rather than Romania He had three daughters by that time. Young daughters so tell us little bit about. Was you do that? He spent a lot of time proving his aryan ancestry. Tell us how he qualifies for this to be an ss in the Combat unit. How this comes to be well he has to prove he has german ancestry. Obviously, and for the for three generations, so that so as long as he has, he can prove that you had three generation of ancestry and then that is part of the process, and
I'm very proud of it at that very proud of it. I mean so everybody want to be in the ss so for him to be in the ss was quite was, is very high I mean you got, he got his blood tattoo under his arm and everything and you bragged about that, and he bragged about their shoes later friends. Now you talk about Osh wits and you talk about the other camp that are set up the concentration camps. And so then you also get to talking about, are swits itself and how to pcs comes to to be stationed at Aushwitz. 'cause he's not first station there so tell us about his. Is journey to get to Osh wits and his original uh, reaction when he finds out he's going there. Well, Is you know Ashley, it was. He was originally in Dufferin. Auschwitz was not what you know.
The strange thing to say, but it wasn't one of those places that you would say. Oh that's where I want to be transferred, it was and it desire, because people knew that it was a death camp and what was going on there. So it wasn't one of the most desired over diseases, everything it was not the assignment you would want to go to so so off several have we've found that when he found out he was to be transferred. There. He tried his hard this to fight to not go and you know for his bad luck- it's it was he couldn't try. Charges and it didn't happen so for several weeks they said no and they eventually got sent there. I think it was near Christmas, one thousand nine hundred and forty three, and he was now not happy, not happy at all about it. You want me to say that it was
so they all knew. I mean you know this was not the assignment you wanted to go to. It was a true death camp. Now, what would you know if I may, you know know, extra rations. No extra! The summers were, the summers were brutal. The winters with brutal there were many illnesses that so it's just a you know. It was not a desirable place to be transferred to you. Write about Doctor Edward were Hertz, that's the commander. There are the head pharmacist someone in charge there, as you write, tell us what his state is and why he is dismissed. Eventually, this is a fat ending story and tell us what copy cieuses is role. Is there his his duties are as soon as he gets to.
Well, I mean what you mean. What's it was the chief pharmacist was executed, expressing heading this information I mean sure defeatism. I'm sorry for defeatism, I mean that's when the pieces takes over and that's that is his. His role there. It becomes his pharmacist, you know, and he's to spending, dispensing all the medications using medical experiments, He so was distributing the colorless odorless insecticide. That cyclone be that was used as the poison. Gas chambers and so from taking over from there, so. It was if for him you know, I think he really realized what it was going to be like at the time, and I think someone like worth who do
spice being there anyway. It is very hard for him and it was, you know, I think one of them called Chrome. I think it was called it was like and then so. No it was the to what it was nothing to compare it to is like Sodom and Gomorrah five. You don't spare the reader any details on this, and- and that's just adds to this profound worth of this But you talk about the experiments and you talk about Mengele. Being there at a certain time and mangle gleefully volunteering to be the kind of person was at the selection the process who would live and who would die Well, Michael, it was good to have. You know, guys. Sorry, no go head I know. Mandel was a you know, there's not really there is the one cannot really compare mandala to to get these justices different. I mean. I actually think that the main goal of this is
though the actual place was dreadful for him. It was a good assignment for you, because he needed people for experiments and and so he for him, he selection there I mean it was just like you know Just like a scientist got almost in that respect, so for him you could do everything he was just let loose we could do whatever needed to be done and whether is experiment brown eyes, you know making the perfect aryan race. Obviously I mean they were. They wanted the twins, the twins, so they could more apply for world WAR two as well. You know so the aryan race could be plentiful. And the blonde hair I mean. I remember when I went to the Berlin DOT, women center in a few qua a few years ago, they had charts upon what they considered should need the perfect aryan race and that's exactly what he was trying to get
you know I mean it's gonna, remember, megalou even volunteer for extra shifts. I know- and there were about five thousand twins and many children that eventually pass through there. I mean there was called Mangala. You know the barracks bar fourteen camp. If there was conducted some of the worst groups experiment, you could ever imagine no anesthesia, nothing and it is so to Peace is, it was a different, different type of thing. You know he was a Thomas is really wasn't a doctor being there and his his assignment was completely different and it was only when they needed the doctors to start choosing life and death. As you said,
left to die and the right to live, I mean what was right to live so really what it really to live. What it's been a slave labor camp, where you they would work you to death, will stop the death. Was it to be a sex slave? I mean really what it really wasn't life for me. I look I'll show this. Is one enormous death camp with a graveyard, and that was death. It was death of money. Really that's what it's all about there. And I think what happened to a lot of them that, like the pc's, is that. You know you're there we can you it makes you feel physically on. You probably want to throw up, and you think you can't do any of this and then one week becomes a month in a month becomes two month, three months and they just start getting used. It becomes normal for you that becomes your everyday, I'm good wake up in the morning. This is your life. This is what you have to adapt to and the people that I'm less than human to you. I mean, Do you think of it, hit I have more respect for animals and he has for humans in the respect that he was a vegetarian and he
we believe in Vizza section, which was experiments on animals. You could die or you could be put to death or put in prison. So you know these people Less than human- I remember just next sort of auschwitz- was enormous slave labor factory run by Farming Capizzi's. You know. Pre war, employee. So it's it's a may when you think of it. That way,. Malaysia. What I. As you write in the book. You clearly explain the connection Rg Farben, it's a surgery bear In Nazi Germany, you say eight years before Hitler rose to power, the company will be formed. You talk about the Incredible money for fifty five billion in two thousand and two in currency for their expansion, so explain what Farben was and you talk about how many Jews, jewish scientists were involved in this company, an essential part of the company according to its its owner,
and so tell us how it came to be that there were no more jewish well, I do you Hitler just had such a hatred towards the Jews. I mean for one to really understand where that came from. I mean many people, try to analyze it find out, you know, say: well and I think you remember this one part in the book where they come too and they say, but if we get rid of all of them will be, you know, put back on Fuji's and he said fine will be put back one hundred years. I don't care so he you know he wanted. No, he wasn't using free jewish free, and so that meant. He even care he just wanted Jews out. That was the beginning and the end of it and he this way there there's no doubt about it, and then you know and far been you know, as you said, you know who founded in nineteen nineteen twenty five in the first decorate decade is a new company. It became the world's largest chemical company and
Also, the most profitable firm in Germany, it was a full, the biggest conglomerate in the world, and I think it claimed a record of phone noble prizes in chemistry in Madison. So Hitler and Nazi had a love, hate relationship with Robin and as we get back to that had all these joints. Scion so it was a real love, hate relationship, and it was in for him to kick all the Jews from labs out and we did it and they were by, I think by one thousand nine hundred and thirty eight they were out. And then they needed enormous plant and everything in that Nazi war effort they needed a plant needs so much so they found the perfect spot, which was monowitz, which I was in Poland and only four miles from Auschwitz, so you know it's it low, wanted self sufficiency and not basically was because he didn't. He was so
angry about Ward WAR, one what went down that he wanted be self sufficient. You know in rubber in everything he wanted. He didn't want to rely on anyone or anything and that was part of the factory, and I mean it was it that's basic in the nutshell. You talk about this company, particular consorting with the Nazis, in that they complied with. The race law but they all were. The german government was ready to bankroll on them. I thought it was such an incredible investment given this slave labor, but this was going to be incredible. Profit centers, so they refused. But we were, as you explain and I'll, have you explain how they re? We do become a nazi company.
One of the common. All you know is is is not certified. You were coming up to you. You know you have to go through at first. What does I three no Jews in the company and then you you all? You are not satisfied. You are part of your nose. It lives special group or whatever they want. Just stand, there was other companies that went through that and and therefore you abide by their rules or regulations, you you know you you pay, some money is, and I mean that's, It really was, you know when you think of it It was like my psych, mad saying that just went through every you know the whole country and everybody complied with it. That's what's so amazing everybody complied with it. No one for us said, and it does it did fight. You mean one doesn't really care about, but you don't know I mean it was really I mean the the I think it was is many of the
company officials have become, as I said, before, night's fire, and there were members of I mean they join, what they called the ss and so far Boomer Success Actually I got a certificate that it was part of this german, firm and company, and they were Aaron eyes. You know, so I think they dismissed about all over Could you have to get rid of everyone? Even if it was in Paul to Europe, one hundred and seven It has worked in the international division. Outside Germany. That was, but you talk about Eve more responsibility, because other companies might have been not nazified the process being completed. These company complained about the slave late. Your treatment by the Germans. They said they were sadistic, so they proposed to have their own concentration camp. And with that concentration camp is three and you talk about
course, not immediately. They being necessarily death camps, but the conversion of course, when the final Pollution comes, but between that you talk about the company profiting incredibly from icon. Zyklon B? They, to exterminate people at the camps, and then well dark about quit You know what else I can be. I was going to say, which is interesting. That that is a you bring up is a very good example because There was, there is an amazing story about that they wanted to stretch. I mean it like it like anything. It was about money you know the Nazis made profit off of death, so they decided, let's cut down on
You know let's cut down on the can, and they made profit all the deaths from everything whether it was hey I'll. Let the shoe's slave labor selling the inmate's a you know. The test drives. A click to cash jewelry gold and they would you know, be shipped out, but with the cyclone be they decide did to bring down the amount that they used and because because of their inventory. They wanted to bring it down and wanted to reduce, so we could reduce their expenses so for each canister for five right marks, which would be two dollars. The essays have begun, in the experiment, were using less at the gassing. Instead of twenty cans canisters, they need to kill up to two thousand prisoners. The ss drop the member to fifth, and that extended that gruesome, twenty minutes and the time that last for
to Diane, and it just didn't work for them, because I don't know if you read the story about the young girl that they found underneath the the body is. Yes, are you familiar with it? We had a boys used to you know this. I mean this is a poison, the fall, but I had a you know. It was that it was you know, but then the insecticides. So when they, when they went to the guest but to all get one one day will actually happen. That which I think, if I explain the story, it would feel to see why they were invite to their the normal amount of gas cycling be again one day on the commodity right there shoes that were assigned to the horrible task of removing the dead bodies from the gas chambers and they found a young girl run about fifteen and she was still alive between the mountains of bodies in the gas chamber and she was still moving and they say and in an inmate doctor initially who went running with the doctors bag into the gas chamber and she was like
leaning against the wall and the body was half covered, you know 'cause it's naked, but he he recounted this story that she like a wonderfully beautiful angel, breathing her last breath lying there. And they managed to the man to free her body from the others and they carried into room with a santic model used to change their clothes and he later down on a bench and gave her like several shots. I wish the shots are not clear, but you know to try and shock Carhartt, backed and the men covered her shivering body and it was almost like they were taking care of their own child and someone went to the kitchen to get some tea or soup and they were fighting for a life, but then all of a sudden, did not see doctors started. Treating, are they They worried that she would remember what had happened,
and that really really scared them, and they talked about it, and this is you know what we do should go outside to talk to the people in the camp should disable eyes there. You know we're going to have a lot of problems 'cause at that point. People still really didn't know. They really thought the new members will come in store, they were going, you know to have a shower, and so it was too great a risk for them. So I took her outside and shot from the back of the head, and that was the expert. Of using less cyclone B, incredible Chinas, I'm starting to really takes your breath away. I know, certainly, and to uh add this even worse? If it can be, is you talk about Pc S and we we alluded to it? What does he do with the people that come you say, they're hiding sometimes all of the valuables. They don't know they're going to die. So they've got all of their family jewels in that here at zero, nine, the money would you
apicius specialize in Well, you know what it was, what it was in the beginning. What could pieces was meant to do in the beginning? He was meant to do spent all the medication used in America, medical experiments and is stored and distributed the colors odorless I columbae, so that was basically is any- are performed the life and death yes, but he was also meant to go to the front when they came off of the trains. He was meh, go up front and look for medicines, because these people truly believed that they They truly believe there were being relocated and that's why they brought these big saksa, so many kilos and and
You can measure I can imagine, but if you feel you're being relocated, you would bring everything that was important to you. So, yes, they would bring money jewelery. Obviously that would bring the shoppers candles of Friday night candles everything in the in the silver gold, everything that meant something to them, and he you know he went from taking the medicines taking possibly equipment that might buy the being brought forward, he started taking all the possessions? and it you know, you've got a small amount of personal belongings left the each train and he was just rabbit about it. He just took he began just searching instead for valuable He became like a greedy thief and then to be even worse. I mean if he started, taking the gold from the teeth, which is just horrific.
You know I mean it is just you know. You know the nonces assigned several inmate dentist to these Gorcey Tosser, pulling in gold teeth from the mouth of the corpus, because everything everything two nazis was money. So if you had sixty five to seventy pounds of gold a day coming out, and we could think of that and it doesn't seem possible. But, as I said earlier, everything everything you know: was money to them. Whether it was her you know they work from the bunker between the gas. Chambers and the crematorium in pulling this stuff out, and in one thousand nine hundred and forty four, when I was struggling keep up with the enormous numbers of a hungarian Jews arriving and then they began. Really to get gas and more dentist, had to be assigned to pull out more gold teeth
and all the poured gold was crammed into large trunks stored under the camps CHI If you know dentist who co instantly happened to share the same office building as Capizzi's in the pharmacy. So it was Rad's collection and then compute. You started stealing it and sending it back. To his to his sister in Vienna and witnesses, you know describe the suitcases and trunks filled with gold, sometimes even still on my dentures with peace. I'm sorry to be so graphic here, but even with some of the draw you know hanging from it and the flesh sticking to some of it and wreaking, I mean smelling terribly of deep compensation. You know one of the inmates that work for the pieces, so I'm you know digging through the stinking mess and pulling out dentures and trying to eliminate what he needed there. So it's quite ghastly yeah. Let's use this as an opportunity to stop for a break to talk about
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Slash, murder. You will love how good it feels and taste to create incredible home, cooked meals with blue apron. So don't wait. That's blue apron dot com, slash murder, blue apron, a better way to cook. Now Trisha, we were talking about She is an his incredible. Almost demo, connect behavior here, knowing no remorse or bounds or morality whatsoever, but we also talk about the step up four. The Nazis and some people coming from a place where Victor Capece IAS Pcs was born. Well talk about incredible, credible story of Joseph Gluck and his family and sixteen year old nephew. Please tell us What about this? interesting, you should bring that was. I was just thinking about that because they're going to say member one of the most interesting things about cap pieces
is a Auschwitz when he did the selections in nineteen. Forty four, the Jews driving work from his native country, so he had worked with them and they recognize him, and you make you mentioned luck, but there was also so that you know There's. So many of you know when they saw him, I mean I'll get Scott. You know they would think. Oh Becka pieces he's going Avis we're going to be fine. You know everything's going to be fine and he separated all these families out, which is amazing. Really there he have become, as we said, less than human. He just did not yeah, I mean it's just it was among some. So you, as you were talking about just, black he was Joseph Clark, was a textile manufacture from Claysburg,
and you got to our house is on the chopping on his transportation, the two thousand eight hundred Jews, and I'm I'm not sure I would. I would see I think it was like in June, and he was with his wife and his two year old twins and his mother and his sister in law and and and so he he he he told if you could just You know the the eye of Capizzi's and to help him save or is faint. It didn't want to be separated and, to you know, jeez astonishment when he did see this SS office so that it was good pieces you know and to think that you know. Maybe he could save him, because at that point they could see. People were being separated, each other, but they didn't know that when they were there the wife of a left, meant death or are survivors. We said before horrific situation, but he was
to get the I I would you know, because now again under area to pieces, do you know do you? You know you wanted to say to me. Would you like to work to be says that you nothing else and and and so it was. He remembered him so well, and so it just it just didn't, seem I think it was. There was a lot of confusion there at the time I mean you have to and the been in these, these cattle carts with no food, no water, nothing! So you know they come out. It's price out there, the company of it. So they thought you know as a lot himself his wife and sister in law to it. So he sent a lot. That's why, since it during law to the right? And after that I don't think like ever saw them again and for Glucks twins. They were dispatched to me. It leads to the gas chamber where I think at one point to Coupee, subs go to mingle and ask if he needed them for an experiment, but they did not so
it was a horrible situation and just a horrible- and there was you know, Gluck for Glug is sixty in old nephew, was seized before him. The ss took him away and he managed to cut his arm with blood, and he wrote on the back of the wall of the barracks. You know his name Andrew Andrew lived here at sixteen years of age, families with just broken up in in in in such a cold, heartless manner. And there was no real rhyme or reason I mean they say. If you read the document, they say well, who looked like he or she could work. That would be a good worker would not be a good worker, but sometimes really upstanding like healthy. Looking people would just be sent straight to death, so there was it was it- was almost like on a whim how they felt that day. You talk about boot- and I don't know if everyone knows this, but this is a harsh reminder in nineteen
forty. Three, you talk about the Nancy Nancy Momentum throughout the world, ended it was a five month russian siege, but you talk about in May between May 14th in July, seventh, one thousand nine hundred and forty four it was. The blood is period of all two hundred and eighty eight thousand Jews arrived tell us about. This initiative, and the final solution an kapish this and others at Aushwitz what they knew about what was happening, what they felt tell us a little about this well. You know as you're talking about you know the deportations and the final solution is. It would the deportations. Well, there was such from from hungry. You know there was the deportations with from hungry, and there was so they couldn't
gas and kill enough at the time to just really it's really. It became like a frenzy there and it was, I think, the DIS belief of what was going on and the the whole feeling of what are we going to do now and how we going to deal with all of these people. It became almost like a like a like a what how many people. Can we guess how many that everybody almost in you know the ultimate boosa over it was like. A TIM, although the Nazis would ultimately both over a hellish ten weeks that spring that they killed half of all the Jews and they guessed outfits and the flood of prisoners proved. Would too much even for them to do the math. No, I mean that's why they was shooting some of them in the head and, you know it was. It was just like a crazy
Yes, it was, it was it. You know there were eight hundred thousand Jews when the germ intelligence reported to Hitler in March of forty four and I mean it's just an that the hungarian leaders were secretly negotiating insert came to the allies. So it was really the transportation and started in MID may initially, with four Dale see, I mean each packed about three thousand Jews. It was wildly ambitious, even by their standards of german killing yeah You talk about also the situation with the is public or pardon public private life, where his wife and his Daughters are still in Romania and the anti semitic side, or the support for Germany as ended, and their switched it's to the allies and there situation is in peril at the time. So he has a few
things going on. Despite his his coolness and this guy, seems to maintain that for many many many years, his wife is. It is in chaos for the first time. Isn't it is a lot of shit for him, but he never shows the stress. I mean because remember you know he always he never shows stress, I mean not that I can never see any always believes he's the victim anyway, in every situation, so he seemed to know times completely unflappable to me. Anyway, and yes, you're right about three children- and I want describes him and guessing angry or emotional, there's, no scriptures anywhere of that, which is very interesting when you think of it, no is is always very stoic, not respect. Now he's also with again,
interesting, is that there is word that he has a mistress which is a inmate, a jewish inmate named EVA Citron, bard yeah allow us to grow her hair a little longer than anybody else yeah. I know I mean not. That is the. That was what what I I mean, that's how it appears to me. Definitely which is yeah because it comes back to the you know what we were talking about earlier. He didn't have a think about being antisemetic. He was just doing his duty right, so, but it the world place rumor at that time. I think she was about well, he was, three thousand and thirty, seven years old and supposedly she was twenty six and she was inmate pharmacy because they used. If you are lucky, you would get to work in the pharmacy and that would be a great job to have and she was jewish, obviously- and I think she was from transylvania- and he casually known, I think they
say that it casually knew her before the war and she had been selected during her summer of forty five four arrival by Doctor Klein. Mangla an and only after, like a few weeks become working in the pharmacy in the dispensary and complete This became quite good friends with her yeah yeah. That's only turns in a tight turns in this war. You also talk about the desperate efforts or the did least try at our switch and other locations and other death camps to cover their tracks. You said it could, yes kill enough people fast enough, so I want Did they try to do with the documentation and how successful were they but they you know we have great boy me just what you just said. We have grateful for one thing that the Germans were excellent when it came to documents, and but they you know they they were very proficient with all that stuff, but
they started. Is the only started, dismantling everything you know trying to get rid of all the evidence in November of forty four and they used you love they used about two hundred inmates. Half of them were women and began destroying the crematoriums and you documents demolishing units trying to not leave any evidence behind whatsoever. I mean, fortunately for us they did And by January the realize it was almost impossible to evacuate all the inmates there. The numbers were overwhelming the six hundred thousand prisoners, and just so you know they really worked hard at it, but fortunately for us they left us a lot of documentation. I am grateful for that they were good at doing that stuff. They're very proficient at that. You talk about all the raps on move when, in the know that the gig is up, and you talk about Mangali even ordering everything
to be packed up, even marble, dissecting table and all on twins, yeah yeah yeah, that I mean that that's just amazing and that that is, I think, an true story in itself I mean if anyone not just doing a plug here, but if anyone was read a great book on mangler in his escape and everything, I think they should read my husband's book manga the complete story is an amazing book and it's not unlike most now it's about about his escape and how he took all this stuff. You know how we got everything, but in truckloads and paperwork and but there was also, as in our shoes, they were simply too. The problem was, it was just you know You went when when the word we should stop and getting back to follow up and in their headquarters and the Russians that sit in the right by that time, the Russians at C small ways of fritz amid the
the sorry. No, there was simply you know what was there was simply too to destroy, and I think they were like. You said they were panic. Stricken employees tossed out. Coming one hundred tons of documents from their windows into massive courtyards and some of the papers was burned in large bonfires while others were you know, truck clothes were crammed into into votes nearby row in both bronze. You know it. You know it was it. There was a panic. Every way I mean it was time to cover up as much as we can. You know we wouldn't have anything and, despite that lost it yet, but the allies captured a warehouse full of paper when they see Farber's headquarters. So that was great, but it wasn't just absolute chaos and madness. Going on men, the most horiffic of this entire modern horror story.
Is that when the prisoners at Aushwitz that were not gassed before and we're not march to their death before hand, because these these prisoners were left behind it's supposedly because they're two weeks by the time they were liberated. You said there eight hundred, but incredibly, four hundred died within those first three days after they were liberated, they could not be saved. It is an incredible it's so vivid that that fact alone that what they found they couldn't the site that those liberators The Russians came and saw, and then later the Americans saw well when the Red Army and to the canons permits are on January. Twenty. Seventh, I found, I think it was six hundred I'm very cold. This is nearly fifteen Christmas. Fifteen thousand presence
for life. They were the ones too ill to make the march, is you just said, and even the hard and red Army troops was startled by these half dead, almost zombie like skeletal prisons within the days of liberations hundreds dies of complete. You know whether it's malnutrition, illnesses and moderates. That's, where half of the eight hundred spinners prisoners behind also died over the days. And it's you know it's a weird thing, I'm going to say, but at least died free people, you know they were free, they were free. You know makes me wanna cry because they didn't know they were free or maybe they did, but they were free. I'm sorry for that, but you know in a strange way. There was died, freedom and they found in the warehouses. Oh, there was an area by the way called Canada. You know, 'cause you've read the books so well where it was store
I think, the reason it was called a Canada for your listeners. They thought it was some faraway wonderful place and they stored everything there and some of them those stomach. Wrenching evidence had happened at that, though, like eight hundred and thirty seven thousand women's dresses, three hundred and seventy thousand suits four thousand four hundred and forty. Five thousand pairs of shoes, tons of human hair, I mean, can you just imagine what it had to have been like it just is mind boggling that they got away with this, and it's just stomach watching when you think of it and the other thing was they sound, which I hadn't even thought about. What time was a you know limbs like you know, with what one uses when one lost a leg or or a a you know, Prosthesis, I'm sorry, that's what I was trying to look for, and they were all made out of wood and he's just You know when I had to go through those pictures. I have to tell you to put it in my book. I just thought I was
going to go, I know I just hysterical scream or shout walk, I it was just too much it was. You know I I understand what you say is hot is hot. It's not an easy book to read. I understand that is a really important book to read, and there is a good ending, thank goodness and some pop through to my heroes bought to rice. It was on unbelievable. I just it was a much as I know about World WAR two and I'm at an age where you know was born in the 50s, so I've been around the family talks, but are you still there so much you don't know, and it's just mind: locals how these people could do this. I mean so in many of them. Every seven thousand of these people that way talk to Auschwitz and compete. This was just one of them, just one of them and you,
how did not a bunch of them get together and say this is madness: let's do something, but no one ever did they just follow the words as they just followed. What they have to do is that you see so the Thera. Sorry about that one off of it track, but you know it's just it's just too much. It really is well part of the outrage of this too, as we continue with this is that and we won't be able to go into all of it. But you say right away again, incredibly kapisha this is on the run. Hitler's killed himself the pieces on the run traveling with four inmate assistance, including EVA Citron, barred Virginia. And so you you talk about them on the run, then you talk about them him being arrested. Finally, and so I always reading this book thinking, while certainly there's going to be a prosecution of this and there's a
questionnaire tell us about the the effort before tell us about the effort. What the allies, do the British, the Americans, who is more vigilant or who is willing so, let them our excuse them, and just plus the mood of the world and but the allies do and what they do when they finally arrest You see it well, as you said, he fled Auschwitz and was captured by the British in May just a few weeks before, The war was over, but you know there were so there were millions of displaced persons. You have german soldiers refugees, there was chaos there, confusion in a cat was just a small fry we're not talking about like Mangla, he was on nobody's radar, it wasn't like. Oh, we have to get victor copies. Is you know it wasn't like goring or mangler. Mangler was definitely, and you know he was tried in absentia and centered death in Romania,
so the Brits. Let him go after one year in May of one thousand nine hundred and forty six then three more. Slater wonderful story. This is a survivor sees him in immune big train station and reports it and then Americans, arrest him and hold him for one year and can't make case. Then he goes into what they called the nazification. You know he has to be. You know you, could you be a good job on the go back into society and they will use a major offender, but he gets out reversed because the law through the whole denazification. So in one thousand nine hundred and fifty his free of all of it and gets gets his driver's law. Distance again and opens a pharmacy and is it is, it is just is just a you know: yeah the Germans. The job was last June about war. Crimes. Most Germans would just want to forget about World WAR two and bury the past, so they felt
So how handful of war criminals trials by Americans and British? That was enough punishment. You know that was fine, and so by one thousand. Nine hundred and fifty over two thousand open investigations and fifty five, the first year of the german control, only Twenty one there was no in trusting going off, not crimes. They wanted to move on. And you talk about even when they do when a prosecutor when they get someone that interested in prosecution out of all the other prosecutors that aren't then the scent is our lenient relatively and then they are also committed. A certain degree there let out earlier than possible, so yeah yeah yeah crazy. It's really I mean you're his arm had is crazy. The center yeah. Well, I I, when I would be reading this to
you know you really hit on that one. I I would read it once or twice I have saved you read this did. Did I just read this right? They only got so like seven. For two years and then they were, I mean it's just the crimes were so horrific and- and it was like I mean like a slap on the wrist It wasn't really. You know it was nothing. I mean it really was quite extraordinary The. How it just was treated that way. You know an he closely. He followed all this stuff. You know to pieces as well she was watching the farming trials. Now that time as well, and then I think it was by, let me see in so he was in He was in nineteen. Fifty equal is license, is a drug is from the state and then he purchased they purchased. The book butcher shop
And soon he made that into You know the apothecary, but He also the end. Americans, high commission responded to the Germans plea for clemency and commuted the sentence about seventy center the convicted masses yeah. Now this guy, like you say, is always been cool as a cucumber, but there are have been, as you say, activists and people that won't let this go blind you at you, and so you talk about a brave prosecutor as well, so tell us about the conditions that have changed and in which, upon this brave prosecutor could get some of the p people from the past. This Lang been, if I'm not pronouncing his name right and they sound really important witnesses. An this important prosecution how's this come about. Well, you Lima beans.
Was one of the first first first believes the political press. Auschwitz, nearly four years. And was non jewish, And he is relentless in traveling around the world to get sworn statements from survivors collecting evidence of crimes at camp. He was tired, in punishing reluctant german prosecutors, bring cases against nazi criminals, and one of them was Joseph Mangala references and that indicted in nineteen fifty nine and the only reason was because of him, and one of the names on his list was Victor Capece IAS. And so you know that that that is a great story and he was run limitless and then the second major character. It was non, stop was Fritz Power and just been a movie out recently about Fritz Bauer and for a movie it was out the people versus Fritz Bauer. If anyone interested- and he was Germany's first post war, jewish prosecutor- so
it's pretty amazing and some you know a and in the shop Crumbs chose to most Germans, who preferred to forget about the policy by our head in soap, in you completely, it was in the concentration camp and we, he was not, he was relentless. He would not let Bygones be Bygones and as a chief prosecutor, in fact, Frankfort is dreamers. Have a grand war war crimes trial about it, defendants brought by german prosecutors before german judges and under german law and Hisd name became true and the reality in nineteen sixty four, with the sort of the famous Frankfurt Auschwitz trials in which twenty two ss men were charged with war crimes, and one of those defendants was none other than big dick apicius. You talk about this fight for his life.
Which I read a lot of true crime and I've seen. I read a lot of stuff. Tell us about his behavior at this trial, some of the things that the Judge- learn to stop doing yeah. You know his behavior in the trouble. Is I mean if you had to take a still. The movie and the pictures of him wearing dark glasses because the he said his in alteration hurt his eyes. He was smiling at the trial, he was: even with his hand and talking and at one point the judge asked what was going on and he was laughing. I mean it was so bizarre You know it was a puzzlement to every are they even his own attorney? He simply just seemed to touch from what's going on for the proceedings. He never showed the moment of regret, sorrow remorse. As I said earlier, he was always causing himself as the victim
an you know. Like you know, I was drafted into the ss. You know I mean he just was. There was nothing there. There was nothing, nothing, nothing was hollow. And should you talk about one of the one of the reasons, the biggest reasons he does so well in court, because there are Bauer lays on some very, very serious charges and he has some serious witnesses and he has a guy. Right wrong, Kate, one. So what so? Who or where does he get these lawyers? You need to talk about in the book. Where does he get the funds for these lawyers and what kind of lawyers does he get. Oh, he got. He got the money from his family. I mean that. Wasn't that wasn't an issue for him to have here. You know you have the funds for that. So that was not Was not an issue for Capris? Yes, and there were a lot of you member. You have the pharmacy made a lot of money. He had. He had two. We had the beautiful Then they had the regular pharmacy had
great lawyers he was paying and sufficiently so that wasn't an issue for him. That was no problem whatsoever. Now, the make sure he was well taken care of and you so you must. Coming. Evidence against him was from more than a dozen camp survivors, as you mentioned before What is work within the wall and it and pieces tonight all of those accounts claiming they confuse them with Doctor Fritz Klein look, nothing like for his client. You know a nazi doctor also born in Transylvania and pieces claimed it. He had told his security did not want to do life and death of selections at the railhead and that instead he bribed claim to do it. For him by given client some extra liquor and food, so They did you know so when they did. When I did my research, I found that survivors scoffed at that idea that they have had confused climate Peace is the two didn't look remotely alike, they didn't resemble each other and competed was twenty.
He is younger than Klein so you know, and also client spoke with an accent free of high German. While Kapisa spoke german fluently, but noticeably ah the former. So you know I mean it's just remarkable. There was no remorse from this man whatsoever, nothing whatsoever. He wouldn't think he didn't do it wrong. So so might might that's my conclusion. You know that's how I felt about it. It was a punishment, sorry go ahead, no go head what it and say he was proven responsible for things as heinous as walking up those stairs and drop in the Zyklon B boys in himself into those gas chambers. So I was responsible in new. Of those experiments? He was that was proven, and it was proven that he robbed the graves of these corps of anyth
of any kind of value whatsoever and people we knew he selected them for life and death. Why one more night were successful work. That is if his lawyers were very successful, in this trial, Wednesday yeah, they were very successful, but amazingly You know he was only one or seven the defendants charged with high counts of Britain got like how first degree murder, and only one of the seven charge with top count was acquitted, deliberate murder. So is Tom the prosecutors who appeals I'm six, actually an convicted of aiding and abetting and only got nine years. And then he only served two one slash two and he was freed by one thousand nine hundred and eighty six and you know so one thousand nine hundred and sixty eight I'm sorry and- and I think yeah. The chilling part of that story is that when he gets home and he goes to a public event
in his hometown as a bitter unrepentant, you know till his death, they started clap. Him applauding him- you know like it was a hero, I mean it's just I mean How can you even explain that you can't. And his lawyer stooped to two. To reducing the the witnesses at trial doubting their crap. Ability, their stories, their motivations and then, like you, say again, it's it's disgusting in that he he had the means to bring his Daughters and his wife. Finally, they joined him at the trial. They went on to six. Special careers. Ironically, his youngest daughter is a pharmacist lion. Successive and tell us
what happened I have just before. You said that, but you know his lawyer did any good defense lawyer would do an he just he attached. The credibility You know, attack the credibility of the witnesses and he'd, He cared that they were survivors of the concentration camp that didn't even bother them. You know, because also by the time these people come in think about this. They don't look Way they did when they were at the camp. You know it's a diff looking person. That's on that witness stand. You know, and to pieces said all the witnesses from the community. Is in countries, you know, I mean he just said, that you know they were just all part of a big or that was that was a great party. He was, they were just all part of their all part of a plot against him. It was a conspiracy. You know from the communists. So you know the communists were plotting against him, so He was always the victim, always the victim.
You didn't do anything that was right too. Or why do they die? You had no, nobody died. In nineteen diving, I mean little life. He died in nineteen. Eighty five. Of natural causes, yeah and I tried to get in touch with the daughters. You know you mentioned the doses, but they wouldn't the two living now one has passed an but they wouldn't talk. I mean which is understandable, but I couldn't get into talk. Who I mean when you're doing research for a book like this. You try your hardest in every way, shape and form, and you just do the best can, but no they were. You know And the other thing I find interesting for me personally, I could to find one single picture of him in you know form, and I I mean the both of us. Get a job myself, a very good at finding documents and papers, and but I try everywhere I had every you know, you know, Yes, you can think historical archive.
I was. I went through everything I couldn't find one of him. I mean there's very few pictures of him actually there not that many of him and I tried to find you know family pictures I mean don't. You find, though, I'm sorry to bring this up because we're going backwards, but then- find it extraordinary in the book when they could go on their weekend vacations and sing and dance, and I mean it was just chilling to me that you know you know. Let's, let's look, the weekend of and then they could see the smoke coming out the chimneys and they would say they could smell that sweet smell of flesh. I mean it's just it's like it's like you know, you talk about a horror movie, I mean it was just an when. You know they, I think the dog got shot. And they were more upset about that- you know it was you know the personal leave, You know whether it was for Christmas or whatever you know, it just was such an odd is just very surreal.
The other part of this horror story and people have heard this, but let's you do talk about this briefly is the operation paper. Clip just add to this whore tell some bit. Well, we want to talk about operation paperclip. Operation operation, paperclip, Zombie was a large american convoy. The program that work rooted more than seven hundred now see, engineers and rocket. Science is rocket. Science is after the war, so the I mean you know they they it was. You know there were some things. Is some of you know some of but from the Us Britain for interrogation a few of those like former, you know it would be to walk a invents, a worn out VON Brunn and went to work for it and a and a s a so I mean you know
They made use of these people. What can I say? It's go ahead. Sorry, sorry, you talk about id far, and in this as well and the company was dissolved at some point I thought it was, do say this was called IG, Aust wits and so tell us what the fate of the bear company was at after all of this, a subsidiary of Ig Farben and the fate of Farben itself, the people that were responsible in Farben. Well, they did break the company up, the company was, broken up completely. But, as you said before, there was no will all those sentences were commuted, you know, so they they didn't. They just went on to be you know. Bigger and larger comp
it is again you know the Americans off the American, often Americans freed pieces and forty seven trial began of the twenty four top executives from employees of IG, Farben, including a month of defendants with three directores and they run the company that manufactured the cycle and be the gas chamber and there are also on trial. Was a director who had proved payments for the Auschwitz medical experiments and when ten ten of the defendants were acquitted, and the remaining given light sentences and were eventually you know commuted. So you know nothing really nothing to say about. That is really nothing at all. I mean it's hard for me. I have to say every time I see a bear Raspin in CVS or Walgreens, I'm kind of like cringe to myself these days. I look at is a whole different light yeah
I mean Farber here. You know it. Open. You know remained under allied super, mission through one thousand nine hundred and forty nine, and fully dissolved in nineteen fifty one, so you know in the end of the end of the book you talk about. I, I guess a little glimmer of hope or Good news, and you talk about some prosecutions in two thousand and five and two thousand and fifteen pardon me. So new investigations, so tell us a little bit about what seems to be a little bit of good news. About an attitude. Will change and any kind of news in the hunt for these nazis. I I mean I don't know. I think there is the the the the church and the change. I do think that there's a little bit I don't There's a lot there's, not there's, there's not many
two. I mean there also up in age. The days and and of course the proper Is today when you see these men that, where these strapping young men doing their thing and now they're like old Grandpa's. So hard for people to imagine that the atrocities of these people did so it's you know, will tend to feel sorry for men. You know it wasn't me is you know, you've mistaken me for someone else, and you know the prosecutors. Around Germany. You know it's give they're all you know. I I think it was like said in twenty eleven german court uh decide the prosecutors around Germany chance to open thousands of investigations against camp guards, and I think they got they obtained a list of about fifty. But, as I say, it's the convincing in there is all the paperwork that goes through. It's always go.
I think the first trial of the new investigation was in twenty fifteen cases we talked about, and it was ninety five Gore and you know I was a bookkeeper Auschwitz. You know who is conveyed to this sentence for four years as an accessory to the murder of three three hundred thousand. So it's very, very there's so old. You know So much time has gone by me. Some might have to Centra, Alzheimer's dying. You know it's, there is. How do you say? Was justice served? I don't know it's hard. It's very hard. It really is to even say that and he said as we were in the beginning. I think there was a man that was found in Minnesota recently, and you know he said you know I I'm not that person you, you got me confused. Never son Sun came out and said as well. I don't know his name off hand, but you know so none of them. You know, I don't think there's any of I mean there's so many have passed away,
ok that will never know, but the answers are to that. I think there's you could see the rise in NEO Nazi ISM and you could see a lot of people that are still denying, but I think what's interesting, is that you finally get somebody in this book to get on the stand and admit: do we what they did. So I think that's about all not a seismic change in altitude, but it's it it's a change and I think it's it will continue and but, like you say, if we spoke off before the show there, people that are thirty years old, that don't know any about this? So this is a good opportunity. This book is a fantastic primer
yeah, not not really, I mean I I'm. I've always had a fascination with history, world war, two or any of the war to the back wheel. Weight to the choose a rose is a for me with more, but I think that you know, I think what makes this book you know what makes my book deferment of the Holocaust, is that the problem for many listeners is the scope and the horror of the Holocaust itself right. Then you got the times is so sweeping in a number of victims is so great that reading about it can be. You know, for some people really overwhelming, but I feel in this book I mean this is how I feel I tell a story of a single man. He was diabolical or evil or genius of sadistic or nazi henchman. You know. Instead, he was just an ordinary man uh. It was capable of doing horrific things of Auschwitz and that's what makes the story so riveting and the feedback.
They get from reviewers and readers of rocks copy is in a like to self. They find it really is a lot. You know what I mean is also said to the rest of the story and then, of course, you've got your Two main characters: you know, you know my guys that that that you know it lying brain by our. To give you a lot love hope, and you know, is the of a german prosecutor that brings Capizzi's there and the pursuit of a survivor, so you've got those two people that really, and so in that way, it's at one, those little known tales from the Holocaust. The ends on a little bit note of justice yeah, yes, because he would not have unknown, except for some extraordinary circumstances. Lang, ping them Bauer, I mean they were relentless. I mean thank goodness, these two men, I mean it. We would not have but as far as we did no, never never,
but I think that you know coming back. Real point again. The people people are just not I mean people are is interested in that period as they used to be, or they think they know it, and they don't know it. I think that sort of problem is your day here Hitler and that's all. We need to We don't want to if they want to hear anything else or they hear the fantasy stories of you know just a mandala living in the jungle with all these people, and that was me, you know that was fast. That was story was so glamorized is just ridiculous. You boys from Brazil, America, mine and that's why I said my husband's book is such a great book to read, but I think even I so I knew. So much and you know I have family that was in the and I would his stories constantly, but this there was so much new information. Like you said the involvement I Jefe,
problem bear distribution of the money. What one has to pay for it, it was. The gold the way that you they we you know used to call it, and it was all about. Let's really be honest about that, the camp was about one thing: deaths among the and now she is, is just one big grave yard. I believe that If the, if the, if it could speak, you know the arms and hands must be coming out of the earth. I mean, it's an amazing place to go to because it's amazing in the respect that you just feel the ground is speaking to you is chilling. And I do understand for the very first time it hit, home so much why Jews believe that. The holocaust should be there, it's there cross to bear their word there,
their genocidal mass murder, When people compare other people to Hitler, it's I can see the offense. Because this really is pardon me, sorry, no, no, sorry carry on. I say that just it's just the how profound that is that anyone would compare anything else to this. Well and then we do on. Yes, it's it's again. I I thank you for coming on and and talking about this incredible book, the pharmacist of wash with for those that might want to again they can get it from Amazon and Barnes and noble. But do you have a facebook page for this and how Right people, I have a facebook page and I have I have the fa.
Auschwitz is the it's cold. It's called the pharmacist of Auschwitz on my face book page? I am on Linkedin Twitter, all of them. You know, I have a website, Trisha Posner don't come, and so it's always all their everything said they can get the book on Amazon, but I just want to add one thing for what you just said and is so that millions millions of Jews were killed there, but at the same time there were non Jews that were were killed there they die. Because they were either political prisoners that were gay, mentally ill or considered affected by whatever The standards were, and they were could only because they were they want only kill because they were jewish, so there were other. You know that were killed so it is, you know all the Jews. The difference is
all the Jews were killed only because they were jewish and that that's? Why it anymore people don't really understand. Is that I just want to make this point clear, is that Hitler's dream was to annihilate every Jew that he every Jew off of the face of the earth. So would be no Jews left ever it would be. His word was using free, which means Giuffre. Let's free your which is so. It was- and you know it you know, and very different in that respect. A that does this. Person had this desire, I mean in the beginning, sorry 'cause. Sure we have to wind up now. In the beginning. He wanted them to go to Madagascar. You know he was trying to deport them less, you know it was. It was his desire. This judon free was just he was obsessed with it, so I did
Dress back there, for that you know just something I was. I thought I had there. Yes, and it just is amazing. Just to wrap up as well is the attitude when they went for this major access. Court case that they stuck together, no one, they all believed. In the same thing, they wanted to believe that they were following orders. They all felt persecuted to a great degree there was nobody exiting this group. They all stayed steadfast to their stories. It's an incredible incredible black of remorse, this or humanity manatee. I know you put absolutely well, I mean you know, you know when you think about twenty years after the end of the war, there was not one that broke the SS code of silence, not one not one broke the silence,
so it is it. You know- and I thought of that many times when I was doing the books- that if you had seven thousand people working there, it would have It could have taken a few to get together. You know, but like that they were following orders. They were doing their duty and they wouldn't break that code of silence. And now you know that fewer was Hitler. He was, he was grab man Hi and welcome to the show tonight- yes, absolutely thank I'm very much Patricia for coming on taking the time to explain this incredible book, the pharmacist of Aushwitz, the untold story. Thank you very much. Trisha. Thank you down. Thank you very much and very much for reading the book. The way you did because it's your knowledge of it is it was wonderful. I have to say that fantastic. Thank you very much lot.
Unforgettable book Patricia. Thank you very much for a very, very, very important interview, an important book. Thank you have a great night and you have a great night bye, bye, bye, bye,.
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Transcript generated on 2019-10-31.