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You are now listening to true murder. The most shocking killers in true cried history and the authors that have written about them. Gacy, Bundy, Dahmer, night, stalker, BT came every week. Another fascinating offer talking about the more shocking, an infamous killer, who crime history through murder, with your host journalists and other than asking. Love.

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come on to add insult to injury. You could have used those fifteen blobfish minutes to switch your motorcycle insurance to Geico Geico. Fifteen minutes could save you, fifteen percent, or more on motorcycle insurance too true, murder, the most shocking killers in true crime, history and the authors that have written about them: Gacy, Bundy, Dahmer, the night stalker Bck every week, another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime, history, true murder, with your host journalist and author Dan Zukowski. Reading this your host desert asking for the programme to murder the most shocking killers in true crime, history and the authors of the written about them Rebecca Socio, at an easy smile, effectually body and strong appetites, she,

the world, Bruce Clayton. Decided would buy it for her. The shy engineer quickly fell victim to her charms, getting her whatever she wanted. A new car about a house. But he wasn't Rebecca only admirer, even Rebecca manipulated, Bruce into marrying her hoping to divorce him and take him for everything he had. She occupied herself with a series of lovers, male strippers women. They spend Time Rebecca s bed, but when she learned that a divorce will only get her a few pennies, she knew had to find another way to secure. Bruce's is fortune. The book tonight featured is honeymoon with a killer. He loved her. He loved his money. Turned guests dawn my very special guest. Lassiter honeymoon, with a killer. Welcome back that a programmed time laughter. Thank you, dance. Like me, back with you again,

Thank you very much for agreeing to this interview and a great book by the way, honeymoon with a killer. My favorite question. I think, because I always ask it is very curious. Why did you decide to write about Rebecca Salcedo and this case specifically kind of interesting culture story to that that I did not include in the book, but the my collaborators co, writer, CO, author about IRAN, Bowers and I were considering this story. I was looking at it and then I was wondering really what sounded so familiar about it and suddenly hit me that it's a it's, a retelling of the opera Carmen Busies Opera, in that tab? And I'm when I was a kid I saw of of a version of that with the reader Hayworth and Glyn Ford, so I'm picturing, Rita Hayworth as Rebecca and in the end Carmen this woman is a beautiful, tempestuous fiery,

Gypsy in Spain, who's selling, her wares in up in this town plaza, and she meets an innocent inexperienced soldier Don Jose. He fallen hopelessly in love, but she's unfaithful, the bullfighter, their affair Rex his life and ends in deadly tragedy Rebecca meets Bruce, while selling spices at a swap meet. Captures. His heart is unfaithful with male strippers, so at their relationship wrecks his life, which ends in deadly tragedy. So this is this is Carmen only without the magnificent music they have March of the toreadors in beautiful harmony, Well, I'm Colonel Gaddafi of Diet, the great story. It has all these elements for sure now

you mentioned Ronald E Bowers he's listed on the cover as Don Laster. The author with Ronald E Bauer, so tell us what is his role in the writing of this book. Ron is a forty year veteran of the LOS Angeles County, a district attorneys office and he is he's been involved in every made in prosecution of every major crime in that forty years, including all the ones you've heard about over the years, and so RON has this towel wealth of experience. So we became acquainted several years ago and RON just pretty much helping with research. He writes some of the things too, as well. One book we recorded quite a bit of his writing. We didn't do that in honeymoon, because I take a little different type of voice on this one, but rise is a wealth of information. For me great great now for our audience. Where does this story primarily take place and in what era with women are we talking about? What years took place in the

May? Actually, above the eighties it irregular southern California? She Michel Rebecca Bet, Bruce Old Llamarada drive in theater, which is now swap meet in Orange County. We're talking about Rebecca Salcedo in its credit story, her character. Let's start with her history, where was she raised will cooperate? Did she have tell us about Rebecca for fatal Rebecca as one of the most complex multi faceted women? I've ever been encountered in research, friends, collar beautiful, fond sexually outrageous, generous affectionate, other size, duplicitous, self, centered, greedy and evil. Rebecca was born here and in LOS Angeles

hispanic emigrants and her mother was raped and produce the first daughter back his older sister as rape in Tijuana, and then that moved up here and now. I wish that that man deserted her and she was married again and that marriage and last forever so, Rebecca, grew up in pretty much a dysfunctional family with a lot of strain in the household she and her sisters and get along well. Her mother was a nurse worked as a nurse, but was hooked on prescription drugs and spent a lot of time in her bedroom. While the sisters are pretty much around the house, so it wasn't a happy childhood. I don't know if we can save use that as the abuse excuse or not as many criminals who say they grew up in a poor environment. Now one thing you haven't talked about his or her case. They would he her upbringing. But what did she

develop into what type of character she obviously was an attractive woman. You can see that a cover on them on a buffer with cheap did she realized? If you didn't realize too many things, it is what did she realize early on and how did that affected character, development? Well, her her good, large and her incredible body. It became her of her past, do exist and set a well. She learned soon at the age of about twelve or thirteen when she grew into which body that the men would give disbelieving? She wondered if she be even a certain way and she did, and yet she had no trouble at all are displaying those where's, but she also were developed a a gregarious personality that that attract a now only man, but women, and I mean all men and women in any way you want to imagine she saw

that she could get just by anything, she wanted one one man, even let her drive a Lamborghini that he owned and no one knows what she was doing for that she learned really early to use her female wiles and our figured to get what she wanted. She was by the way she was once married, but only to provide an immigrant with a green card, and she treated that that that marriage is no more important than a yard, sale transaction and she also early age, look much much older than her age as well, which which helped her or didn't help. In this particular case, and so what was she doing say after her teenage life? What age would we find her pretty sue and we'll get into right away? Talking about the main one? Another characters Bruce claimant, but let's, let's talk say here at twenty years old. Where was she at in her life? What was she doing? What was her occupation? Was she to

Google tell us what she was actually doing at that time? Well, as back up a little further shit at about thirteen or fourteen, she was going to school makeup school to so she could, because she didn't do well at that year in school and that's where she met her best friend. It looks like Bertha when you read it, but it's pronounced better thought is a prominent character in our book here, as they grew in you know, they became friends and then Rebecca was very involved with a lot of men and and, as she produced

young boy, Sun and she didn't over. The father was exactly and there she found out while she was in jail and watch in prison for aid to a drug conviction, and she she conducted her friend, Bertha monoculture. Bertha like I am I am. I gonna drive it better to look away from camp so Bertha as you gonna birth as it could you send me some pictures of a man. I've been dating so out tat. It can figure out which one is the Father. I'm gonna give you a pretty a pretty employed picture. What Rebecca really was right now you decide what is Bertha. This issue is important to the story because she's with at an early age, and this is conceivably the very best friend the person who knows where the best and will say very, very closest friends. So that's why she's very important of all to this story? Isn't she exactly that's correct brother was but brother was extremely intelligent, bright, articulate, also hispanic heritage,

a level head and that's what Bertha such she felt like was attractive to Rebecca that she sought a chapter on the straight and narrow as much she could now. What was the relationship with Rebecca and her other sisters, Dolores one of her sisters, Mary figure in the stories, is well tell us a little bit about the relationship with her other siblings traveling fractious relationship and birthday explained to me that the girls were just constant lady, each other's throats. They slept with each other's boyfriends just to make the other one jealous. They were and constant competition with one another, a no peace, no serenity that household it just warfare, well, and so. On now that we've caught up a little bit as time goes on what is

goals in life? I did. She say she see easily can manipulate men to get where she was. What is it was unlike what it? What is her occupation? What could she believed she wants to do with her life? Well,

I don't think she ever had any real goals, as she was a day to day existence. She had a few minor jobs and Bertha got her a few jobs. One of 'em was at a company where Bertha was doing white collar work and she got Rebecca Javas, some helper, but Rebecca thought she would use her lovely figure to enchant. The boss stepped out of a restroom with her blouse open and as Bertha explained, everything popped out. Boss would just absolutely furious and said, get her out of here and she got fired from that one. So I don't think she had many goals as far as profession or when she met Bruce. She was working at a company that made the spices and bottle them in interesting. Rectangular shaped jars on

Rebecca, managed to smuggle a few of those from her employer and take him to that swap Meet Anna sell them there for a little extra profit and that's where she met Bruce. So she was hustling at that point. Now tell us tell us about the Bruce Cleveland you all the chapter and and if, if this is your idea, but I would think it might be that the evolution of a male virgin- and you can tell me why you titled it that but his background, what was his family life of Bruce Bruce grew up,

upper middle class home and shout Pasadena it s very nice down the sort of Europe that people who were with a fair amount of wealth when one sister, when older sister but Bruce unfortunately didn't have wasn't born with a good looks. I pointed out that if any one remembers, the funny character on your lap and serious called tiny TIM is dying. Unfortunately, for Bruce I in high school student, quite a resembles. The tiny TIM Rhodesia invading extremely self conscious about his looks so he he just what he became afraid approach girls at all. They they pretty much shoved them, ignoring laughed at him, so he concentrate on academics. He was a very, very bright kid. All straight age belong, as was a four year member. The d, a group of the kid to achieve a high grade, got a scholarship to college and eventually

graduated with masters masters degree from Stanford University in in computer software. Engineer right right now, you say again you say the the evolution of a male virgin, you're saying shy. Now he goes to college. I guess his life changes that does he did grow. Any of this sort of nerdy looks. How does is like continued will? Actually he Daddy Walter Valley, these looking man, but I don't think he understood that by the time he reached aged forty two when he met the when he read Rebecca, he still was hadn't had an experience of women at all I'll, be extremely fruit. Doing no during those years working up in Silicon Valley, upward computer firms and now doing international work,

actually undercover work across the various continents for the government, but Bruce became extremely frugal invested all of his money and had accrued quite a bit of wealth by the time he was forty two he his best pal was his father and his father, and he went to a ball games together and uh and did other things together, including a driving from South Pasadena Pasadena a few times to visit the swap meet down in Orange County now even live with his parents. Still at that age Disney. That's correct, well, not at that age he he had moved up to Silicon Valley, And then had a place in her Mosa Beach down by the beach here, and that's amazing too, because any any any man who can't meet a woman in her Mosa very well. I tried to hard anyway, okay, so.

So he accumulator incredible wealth. You say he sees likely: a virgin has no virtually no experience with any women at all and and how every day that Bruce Quail and meets again he's with his father. That day is me and tell us about the meeting and what exactly happened and how it all came

be the day these two people would meet well versed in his father strolling on along in this colorful swap made, which had just been every kind of vendor there at all. I think I said from the from tortillas tyres in their colorful mexican flags Musica playing in the background of a very interesting place, a visit run, and I went over stroll through their just to see what the I'll be out of it was Bruce and his father stalling along and he spots is rather attractive or watch was warm and selling spices from from an interesting jars and something struck Bruce hard. Just something like. I guess Cuba chatting with an error that blind he told his father and surprising father messy blessing. I'm gonna go back to that girl. His father was gobs, makinsons, isn't about living with big eyes and Bruce actually went back and private conversation with the Rebecca and she saw dollar signs, and so may they talk awhile and it later turned out that the she was trying to find out as much she could about it because in the company, where she worships

access to credit records and when she told some of her friends the next day, I've met the man I'm going to marry and let me show you something: they thought she was going to show a picture. Instead, she pulls out his credit report, wow wow. What did she well before? I go that what did what it Bruce's family think of Rebecca and origin, the idea that he met this woman? What did he say to his father? Did he did it? Listen, I got her number or we will set up a date. What was what was I

conversation with his father about that meeting with Rebecca, I dont think they had much of a conversation, but his father was actually a maze and rather pleased to see a son flirting trying trying to set up a date with a woman and even though they father the Father strongly suspected that Rebecca was exactly of bible woman. He would like to see them again rob with. He still was pleased that something was happening so they were and when he went home and told his wife, bruises mother, pleased to see something with some possible future for their son? Now you talked about her going to her coworkers and showing the credit report as opposed to showing a photo of them, and so she said this is the man she's going to marry other than those people at work? Did she have a conversation with her sister about Bruce or about with better Bertha? Did you

have conversations with them immediately after meeting Bruce yeah, her sister- and she said this- is the man I'm going to marry, but she also added I'm gonna, take him for everything he's worth and I'm going to be set for life and that that showed pretty much the type of woman she was. This was not a sudden falling in love by her room was in love that, with one thing, she was not in love. She was able. Greed now did her friend. Bertha say what did your sister say in response to I mean obviously, she's manipulated men for all kinds of things, but to have that kind of I'm going to everything is everything that is worth and also going to marry. This meant what was delors

response or sister was birth. As response to that were both of a worse pretty sceptical, I am an pretty rather appalled at the thought of the latter must not a very good way to approach this idea of a meeting a man he had only one is money now, but the Rebecca was pretty persistent. So, that's that's what I'm after, unless, when I want- and I want to be set for life and our marry him and he ll get me anything. I want, as it turned out. I told you that Bruce was quite a frugal character. Right up, there will happen. He made a complete about face a hundred eighty degree turn and started buying her things being

really generous with her. She lived in a small, very small house, in a in a rough neighborhood, and he went in and bought new furniture for her and her little boy. She wanted a hot tub. He bought that for her. He bought a boat and a trailer to go with it in any stunned. He stunned his parents and his sister, who is married by then on and his brother in law, and this was his whole circle of social Circle- was his parents and his sister or brother in law, and they were just absolutely amazed at what happened to him an while they were sceptical about about it. They they still fit good that he was changing and that might he might have a woman in his life. So this, despite their he had enough money, certainly could do whatever a date. The overall it look like a brute,

was enjoying himself that he wasn't the happiest go lucky guy in the whole world, despite all his financial success in business, success real change in him. Other meeting Rebecca. They were we're good with that. Because of that the rest of them, they said the hen, and now I heard that later he reports that he would just he was an absolute heaven. He was his personality changes. Well, he was happy and whistling and singing and looking forward every moment he could be with Rebecca. That's what makes this whole damn tragic, actually, yeah, absolutely now what did Rebecca managed to convince Bruce to do in a short period time? You talked about the boat and I wanted to make sure the audience realizes to these weren't, exactly ideas that Bruce came up with about the boat. This was the prodding of Rebecca. I need this. I need this, I expect listen and they ve got without it baron. I bet you did tell Bruce

through some lines on terms of his idea of what went wrong, but maybe you can tell the audience what her rules were and what she expect in what she told them in terms of no in terms of her whole code, which seems to be a good point. You you make a very good question. She had obviously, as I've mentioned, she'd been very promiscuous before this by there this facade she's putting on for bruise. She claims well women of my hispanic origin. Don't just go to bed with anyone, and she said I have one boy and that's the only man I've ever been with my little boy's father and so obviously we're not going to have any intimate relations until we're married and she kept driving that home. I you know we must get married before and so that that just that we don't, we do not do anything naughty.

Together and Bruce bought every inch of the way where most men with inexperience would have said. Oh, my god, this is this is not working here. This is not right and there was other things too as well that he also made duplicates of his credit card, so she could use them basically at her whim. She also began, of course mentioned that she's very generous, which is very generous with Bruce's credit cards to people were her entourage will save people in a family or people around her. That was something that

again, another reasonable person might might wonder, and that was wasn't are also stipulation that he really couldn't just pop over to her place at any time or was that we later when, when when he actually bought the housework, that's Gregor he he. He wasn't eating and try to spend the night, whether at that, because he bought her story that she was very moral and wasn't going to allow any thinking going on right. Now. Eventually, they began to talk about marriage and he decided to see that he went take her how shopping and they bought a beauty, bought a beautiful home for and Whittier owner, hilltop, magnificent home and that border, and that, then, is she started angling ever she wanted to get her her books and over fifty percent ownership of that thing, so she said well it. We must be married in a church, of course, because she is a religion demanded their marriage in a church sure she wanted.

She is, she said if we can, just you know, maybe just go ahead and we should have a civil ceremony first before the church and he fell right for that and thinking, oh boy. Now we can move in a house together, but even after after the civil service marriage, she moved into the house, but he wasn't allowed to. He still had to stay down with his parents in South Pasadena and poor guy. Most men read it most men reading this would say wow what a fool for Bruce. You know he had no experience with this and so the board I would just gullible Anne and love, struck I've written before I and other books, it's funny. What love can do two people sure at this time the EU would just alluded to the brother lies at Brown and and Ceuta and Harold Cleveland. When I got to the point

further along and I talking about marriage and in he bought the house for her, and he wasn't allowed to be over there. Was ready, suspicion from and anything expressed with, both his parents or rather lie browser, any anybody

his eye, the family. That said listen there could be very bad things happen, one man, his brother in law, who understand what was going on here. Did you try to doktor Bruce and tell him? You know? Maybe wanna be cautious about this before you applaud forward this woman. Also one of Rebecca sisters actually called Bruce's mother data and said: are you my sister is trying to take your son for a lot of money in and she's, not being very honest with him, then this is the shows. The of the relationship between the sisters of her own says would do that, but Bruce when it would have meant, was having none of that so well and the mother. Did you try to stopping she's, not well he's a grown man. He should be able to make his own choice. Oh by the way. Let me back up just now that you mention the credit cards. Yes, she was buying a lot of things not just for herself, with his gotta guide before her friends, including a male stripper that she'd been seeing some time before that and ass. She was in which he moved into the new house, the males Deborah they got a few visitor to and Bruce even even saw him there one time and Rebecca Catholics. When all this

just one of my cousins. He just came to visit me a little while and poor Bruce even brought into that. So some readers are going to begin to wonder what is the matter with this man he was, he was gullible. He was into everything she was doing now. Wedding plans have been uh, been made, a correct and. And at a bridle show Rebecca meets effort, I prefer to become the very important figure in it story to name Elisabeth Lamb tell us a little bit about those wedding plans, and

and about Elizabeth LAMP to you that the work on arrears well see. I call their swam Elizabeth because, as a real name and a writer sometimes makes my little problem, writers have sometimes it's interesting because a week I have to say it was really struggle. Here I had Beth, I have Bertha and I have Becky Becky Azure Rebecca middle Name, given error, mic name I should say, and so I had to make a b be very, very careful, so they lead to confusion.

So I call Beth Lamb Elizabeth all the way through and birth up by Bertha, and then I refer to Rebecca. All the way through is not Becky, so I don't confuse the readers. I sure I was kind of that was a real problem for me anyway, Beth was a successful wedding photographer. She was a very cordial humorous, lovely person and when the Rebecca contacted her first bath was a little skeptical, because she went to the little house in the rough neighborhood and was wondering. Do I really want to get into this, but Rebecca really wanted the first class treatment all the way she ordered the most expensive package that the photographer had available so bester? Well, ok, I'll go along with it Rebecca they wanted to treat best like an intimate friend. You know like she really were very close to her. That's preferred to keep it on a courteous, professional level. Here. I give an example of how

bachelorette party, before the the catholic wedding- and I asked when I was interviewing bath- is that did you attend and she looked at me and she rolled her eyes. You not! This Mormon mom gives you a little insight into what death was like and so yeah she and she so she went to. They had the catholic wedding at a very, very nice catholic church. They had a magnificent reception later at a country club that because of Bruce's parents, I have the contacts up in the wealthy section of San Marino area and it's interesting. If the the wedding was attended by several of of Rebecca's relatives and friends and and people she knew, but they didn't go to the reception 'cause, they didn't quite feel it in.

In the country, club atmosphere wasn't there's, so the reception was pretty much attended by the Cleveland family and their acquaintances. Now tell us, you talked about the Bachelor Party in the Bachelor party is very important because, like you say, Elizabeth Lam said I'm not going to show up and he says, but it also was because what some of the information that ECHO, told Elizabeth. This is what's going to go on at this bachelor party and it seemed way to Roger for Elizabeth Lamb but tell us about the bachelor Party and who she who was there too,

goodness. What actually happened at that at that bachelor party? Well, the bachelor parties I said was held at the new home that Bruce bought for her. But of course he wasn't going to be there. She invited all, I think, about twenty five of her female friends, but when she told Bethlehem what the entertainment is going to be that certainly convinced the Mormon mom she was going to go because she was going to have male strippers as well, including the one who she with whom she had been having an affair and the other women didn't find. Although Bertha her best friend birth, I did go, but she said I left before they male strippers or because by that time I was involved in a in a serious relationship, and I didn't want to be there for these male strippers. But she said I went in to say: go to save a goodbye

to Rebecca before I left and I couldn't find. I went into the bedroom and there she was in bed with one of the male strippers, sure, probably innocent though oh absolutely, they were just getting warm. Now said with Bertha left, who witness the fair, hoo hoo of anyone, witness the entire thing to say what happened the next day. Did anyone stay the night tell us about that? Quite a few. Other women stay the night, because there was a free flow of much much drank too much food and but one of his sisters. I also saw the event between lay between the males ripper and her sister Anne. She kept that in her little love memory bank to use in the future. If you need to do. Right now the wedding takes place in and and tell us about the wedding. Is it uneventful? Basically, you say that the reception

is basically attended by the glance family in friends rather than her family. So tell us a little bit of wedding if there was anything unusual, untoward there or and in this house, about the reception and then what happens at the reception itself. Well at the wedding in the church, the wedding photographer Beth, she said it was, it would be a whole unman there. Everything is going well, but she this introduces one other character that we need to know about Rebecca Uncle Arturo with their uncle Roger had a year. He had to Sun, Rebecca cousins

A lot oh and Jose and Alvaro was there, but not Jose, but Uncle Arturo, who was a woman grouper ever never had a couple of drinks. He in Bertha complained many times that every time I'd be around and he tried to grapple me, and she said I told him I told Rebecca if you ever touches me like that again, I'm gonna kick him where it hurts the most and telling you his hands off of Maine Rebecca. No, don't worry about it. He does that all the meat to me all the time too eh just kidding around he just so funny guy and the Mormon MOM wedding photographer was there taking pictures, and she said that my biggest problem was uncle. Arterial is all over me trying to grope me too, I told him get your hands up and stay away from me and then she took her. She took the pictures and then.

But the reception in the country club was pretty uneventful. If it went off pretty well and then the two went off on their honeymoon to Hawaii. Now do you want me to go out and you can tell us about the honeymoon because it gets better their other anyone, the Hawaiian, that land was at home and her phone rings and as an image, and she says hello, I'm in it it's a Rebecca on your honeymoon too. Oh my god. Oh my god, you can't believe this is horrible and she's telling how poor bruises totally incapable of doing what is supposed to do. He doesn't know how he doesn't know anything about how to please warmonger what do the woman? Oh, my god, you, this woman is calling this Mormon mom wedding photographer to complain about our honey muslim men, animal

and she Rebecca told several other people. She told her own sister. She even when she got back. She even called Ed Brown. A brother in law with whom she had never had a one on one conversation and was complaining about Bruce, is a incapable perform. And Ed Brown the brother Lock told her look? What are you doing telling me this garbage? I do you need to talk to someone else that this is not my business for Heaven sake and it's standing, but this woman was spreading these kind of malicious comments about her poor anew Right and what what happened after they got back to the to the states. After this honeymoon how'd it Rebecca proceed with Bruce what what what was her completely. We know what a complaint was about the honeymoon, but how did you proceed from their? What would happen between the two well when she got back, they move they did

and in the house for awhile and poor. Bruce is trying to do his best, but he's beginning to think in. Oh, my god, this you know this is awful. I wonder, what's going on and Rebecca is really cold to him, she spreading these nasty rumors.

And then she began to say I wanted the wars that other working. I wanted it worse versus broken hearted and within just a few weeks. She gets him out and move back now. These parents just stand them horrified that this woman doesn't wanting. Meanwhile she's having parties up there and inviting her male France or Stripper Frances coming our spending nights now and poor Bruce doesn't know what to do, and I am so funny and Brown is whether Mouser advice I see the lawyer that talk about it in the lawyer gives Bruce and pretty good move news issues you, the divorce laws ass. She won't get very much want me because you quiet all that before your married to her and the diversity of equality, split that with their associates should pick up, maybe fifty thousand dollars. Well, when Rebecca here's this, she changed her tone entirely Thea. She suddenly doesn't want this divorce glad she begins a new strategy. She began spreading the word among everyone who will listen for five minutes and that their Bruce has been molesting her little boy sexually. Allow everyone nosey Miss is horrified, including Bertha, Bertha at first, then, why are you? Are you kidding me? Are you? Are you telling me that he was acting molesting embassy, treasure rationalize? Maybe you.

Holding him on his lap or something I don't know how to treat little boy. No, no. I saw a man, he complained. My little boy complaining, molested, Bertha realises this is just a scam. All she's doing now is angling. To get his money is via another Ruth and divorce. It did she tell anybody else. The molestation accusation is well. She told the wedding photographer also by their them, and she told everyone who would listen, including her sisters and another sector than believe machinist hauled him outright liar butter. Rebecca I wanted to proceed with us. Did this molestation accusation get back to

his family as well. I don't know if it ever got to his parents. I hope not because they would have devastated them, but birth of you know have you called the police. You know. Have you called anyone you this? You need police help on this? Oh no! No! No! I don't want to do that, because that was that wouldn't work, but then she came up with an additional accusation that Uncle Arturo had been visiting an that Bruce had had the proposition him for sort of a homosexual act and now birth Rebecca is spreading the word that now there may be ready, You know my my uncle in a hispanic family. You do not make that kind of a proposition two men. He I'm afraid my cousins might do something to him so she's already she was already laying some groundwork and in retrospect, when p well think about you was laying some groundwork for.

Any kind of sympathy for proves to be God and also lay the groundwork for possibly any kind of talk of assault as well, actually groundwork. That's what he's heading four now when she realizes she can't make any money from this divorce. How is she proceed with Bruce? What does she do? Is she still on a spending spree? Does he still does he cancel any credit cards? How does he proceed? How does she proceed and

what time frame we talked about after he's, booted out of the house? Well, it's just a few weeks after you booted other house now and she is she still using the credit cards extravagantly in the her stripper boyfriend is having a tough time making me things meeting is expensive, so she's feeding him money as well out of Bruce is accounts, and this is when birth becomes more strange. Finally, from Rebecca, this is just unfair 'cause. She like Bruce, and she didn't believe any of the stories about him, but she seldom used out. You know you should stop that. That's not very good! Well, how am I going to live on so she's she's spending it rapidly? Now finally, had brown councils bruises said: look, you know you gotta, stop That spending Austrian so finally, first kill some of the credit card, so she can keep going at doing right now. We, I guess the bruises surprise. He,

the call from Rebecca Rebecca, give him a call about talking about their future way,

Does this happen and who makes the call in and what's bruises reaction diversities, any sport, one many working everyday coming home and going in those bedroom every night this morning getting awful. Let me get a call one nine at Rebecca, and she says you know. Maybe we should make up. Maybe we should get back together. It would be really nice. Let's get em, they had often even today, a mexican food restaurant in while heights and which is in LOS Angeles and saw how about a day about we go there and have a couple of drinks and amazed makes a good dinner and let's, let's get you get back together. We can repair marriage- oh Bruce loudly later, he just so thrilled and happy and he tells his mom and dad and their dubious with this. Well, ok, maybe that's for the best, so they take off her to go somewhere. One night and Rebecca shows up my ass. I don't think I mentioned earlier that she Bruce also brought her a new web suv right, so she shows Ebony, Suv, Bruce gets Andy's passenger and she they drive to em, to boil heights and go to their mechanism. Mexican mood, restaurant and Rebecca during the meal gets up to three times, for she goes back and in this in the way

the sponsor making a call from the pay phone and then but that lasted only briefly and then spots are two other times hiding down a hallway making cell phone calls and then they leave the restaurant. Now she fix so these should also they had also visited someone else that evening, which was again in retrospect kind of unusual, or at least it. They find out about it and they investigate this. This meeting

did they go and spend some time with that that evening it seemed a little unusual to police. Later actually happened after the restaurant. They left the restaurant and locate drove over to Uncle Arturo's little shamble shambles of a house where he had raised Rado and and Jose, and three three daughters as well. His wife, by the way, had left him years earlier and left in another county because of his grouping of other women, so they go down Clark Euros House Uncle art rose there with these guys,

my friend and Bruce and Rebecca, have they bring him actually food from the restaurant, and then they have several more drinks. They've had a few at the restaurant. Only have a few more in for Bruce by this time is pretty well snacker he's a he's had more than he can handle and he's weaving around and they spend they stay at Uncle Earl's house until old, pretty close to one hundred o'clock in the morning, and then they said well, we've gotta get on home backup to Whittier, so they drive out on. Miss she takes a little different route than she normally takes to go to Whittier Right and then what happens something with the vehicle by the way. I don't think I mentioned earlier that

oh borrow her cousin while also became a male stripper. I am being up at the house. Often after Bruce escaped out, he very much moved in two of the house. Now he became a male stripper, a client of her of a Rebecca lover and they're. So now that he's in love, that's ok, now Rebecca and bruised drive out me Suv and she takes little alternate rude, makes her right turn into a residential section and Rebecca Ass says. Oh, my gosh issues is a red light on the dashboard amnesia back, hatches open. She pulls will win this dark, go residential street and now steps outside to allegedly to close up and all of a sudden, a gunman steps out from the dark bushes beside them in its after one a m and opened fire. He shoot issue truce in one bullet peers as his mouth his cheek and goes out one side, but it s not a lethal shun poor. Bruce. Absolutely stand horrified in terrible pain, manages scrambled out of the car and sad run across the street

but the gunman is behind them and shoot him two or three more times and Bruce makes it across and collapses. Then the gunman delivers a final shot in the Bruce's head and then runs off down the street and turns the corner disappears. Now in your book, you have a woman named Virginia Silva and she becomes a little bit very important character. Later she doesn't make phone call, but she does witness something. And what does she see that evening? He's gonna sugars, you must have heard shots. What does she witness

lives just across the street, from where the car was parked? There's they parked by some brush that that is actually next to an entrance to the Santa ANA Freeway, but Virginia lives across the street in a row of houses and then at about one little after one or does she have had just gone to sleep shared this a blast outside she jumps out of bed and runs downstairs and looked out through her bay window, and she sees the dark, clad, gunman or chasing Bruce across the street and shooting at him and then sees the the gunman disappear down the street and for Virginia's horrified, but within just moments she sees police started driving and ambulances, and so she said well, there's no, no point me calling nine hundred and eleven as it happened. The gunman ran about two blocks downhill after he turned left and another witness. Another hispanic woman saw him running along the sidewalk and

was suspicious him and she call nine one month ass. She had also heard gunshot up the street and saw a man running, so she got nine one one and the police and the ambulances arrived just a moment afterwards. Now what did they find it? They had seen again. They they make assessments very early on based on their there past experience with these kinds of cases. What did they see in? What did they initially think was on what, for. And what do they think this crime was an and when it what happened? When I talk to Rebecca about this is well well. The first witnesses who shot from Ebay Window spotted Bruce lying face down in a dry way with blood boys. You can see the blood but by the spring of him, and she also spotted female figure behind Leon behind the suv. Also pressed aid on the pavement, and I look like to people living

got to death, the police arrive and now, as just as they arise, Rebecca rises up from her spot on the pay more she'd been lying down on me with her head cup in her hand and her shoes place very neatly behind the wheel as if she placed them in a closet, and she gets up. Oh, oh, my god we were, they were carjack, as they only hit me in my head and not me out, and what do they took my rings? It makes bitchy rings. Oh Jesus occurring on having a fit and of the police, the paramedics examined bruised and finally, he sees beyond any help then examine Rebecca. I know they find no scratches no bumps no indication of being slag, even though she's complaining she was knocked out by these carjack there's a place arrive in the decades arrive and they went away carjack hours with the shoot this man and leave that car that revenue casually we're running with a engine running her sitting in the history of the minimum, see what carjack is don't do that, but they don't have any real evidence that she's lying so,

they. They pretty much accept her story and start investigation, and then they talked the witness down the street, who also does speaks of seeing the dark, clad men running down the street and she she thought she heard a car door. Slam Anna Anna Car drive away a few feet away from her house right now. We don't have that much time. We've got eleven minutes. So what I'm going to do is that I want talk about, go backwards, a little bit to another important figure, which is LAPD officer name. Robert is a suit him. If you use for him but Rob Isabella or the valor, and there was some relationship with a barrel and maybe tell us a little bit about his relationship to this story. Anne well, because very important right after this turn of events here, while the cousin

have there been working at the way, I'm so yea and Boil hides eighty Stella doing that he met in a police officer came in once in a while. We columns of ally in the story and the act. The actually ask if he could get some information about the becoming a place a while ago replacement and then there there they are well after bushes, kicked out of a healthy all, took that suv and pull the boat over to a lake avenue. Including the police officer Alvaro Rebecca and a couple, other people went over to have a few days Inn at the lake now she's she's kind of hinting that she'd like to have an affair with his police officer, while she's also talking about maybe see her next target would be one of the greatest boxers and southern California history. I wanna name him right now, because, but anyway, she she has she's targeting new men already

before before the murder. Their nose of Allah gets a strange call early in the morning awaiting up after one o clock on the morning of the murder and its awhile. He first at one called he says all I'm over here and I'm all destroyed because of my girlfriend breaking up with me. Well, why you calling Maine? Well, I just need someone to. And then a little while later he calls all my god. I just heard that a Bruce was shot Russia shot and killed. Now Zavala is really wanting. What's going on so here he goes in and tells the detective who's assigned this case about all this, and this begins to open things up now. Do you want me to proceed with? You were getting close now short of time.

We only step one step forward until yeah go ahead, just discontinued to continue with this three ok. Well, we've talked about Beth Lamb, the Mormon, Mormon, mom, wedding photographer shows will be grieving over her dead husband, but she calls back and says. Oh, we need a lot of whole bunch of pictures for the funeral and we need a video table. Oh my goodness, and so Beth goes up and makes an appointment to talk about which pictures she wants from the wedding and what to do now and best spots. These beautiful rings on Rebecca's hands and then she hears later when she's questions she hears that that the rings were stolen when, when the car jacker hit them, and she, my god, she think this is wait a minute. This woman is lying that she had those rings under hand and she she struggles with her several day couple days. When am I going to do she calls they? A police officer friend,.

So she did- and this turned this turn this is actually the turning point in the whole case, but a Mormon mom wedding, photographers information helps get this case opened up and installed. They went to the police, ask Elizabeth Lamb to do they ask if she'd wear a wire and go to the house and see if she could get Rebecca to talk and Elizabeth was scared to death. She just did she don't want to, but she did. She was very courageous and where she tried, but no not no, no interesting information developed out of that, but because of the the rings were obvious, the the officers after could you go up there in the and make sure she's there, because we're going to do a raid and Elizabeth helps him Shiva. She chooses not to be in the house when the search warrant arrived and they they go into the house and do search and see what they can find whenever

search William and Rebecca sitting on her hands. Rebecca could could we see your hands please and she very shyly and reluctantly holds out her hands on there, that beautiful glowing diamond ring that had been stolen, ok, now she's lying and so with a little bit more information beyond math. She is arrested, and by this time they have also began a unique brand new forensic study and that's the use of cell phones. A lot of people don't realize this cell phones can put trip, tell what your location was on those records of all your calls, and the calls you received are on record somewhere sure any given date that you use your cell phone. You can be traced within a few one hundred yards, where you were well, as it turns out. Alvaro was very, very close to the murder scene when it happened and the cell phone records also connected. Those a strange calls that

Rebecca was making from the restaurant to Alvaro and Chantel borrow exchange dozens of calls just leading up to and right after the murder. So basically, Police- didn't I mean not to say they didn't have a hard job, but it was fairly easy. Based on the interviews with her friends, those phone records, like you said it was that they were able to pinpoint that, over what made the call very close, they also it priority. Is it doesn't know it is pretty simple why they wanted to have a police officer. They wanted to know if they could get in the information about the investigation they wanted to have an ally. They they figured in the we forced and really work out. That way, not us Why does the criminal so

anyway, we'll just leave it at that, because it's the trial, the story has more twists and turns, and it's an incredible trial itself too. So the final twist was at the the witness down the street, who saw the dark cloud figure running, was able to identify Jose the other of Alvaro's brother as the shooter, and so that that witness identification pin him and they all went to trial and it took three trial. Just to settle this case. Finally, that's incredible. Yeah you'll have to we'll have to leave it for audience to want to read this book and because it looks like it looks like an incredible slam, dunk at the beginning of the trial, but so not with three trials. That's for sure relieved! Somebody for the reasons, absolutely absolutely absolutely. No! It's a great book done. I also wanted to talk about someone, the new project, you're working on right now, and I wanted to tell people how many books have you. It is a foreigner he's a fifteen year, we're so far how many books have written. You ask

yeah, I that this book was never eighteen. I've just vanished number, I am I just does in August. I went to the trial for the one I begin to work on right now. What will be the number twenty all of these, but one were true crime books. Wow, what does the new case you're working on it? Can you tell us about that who it's involved with yeah? This is a case of a New York lawyer who moved to Hollywood and wanted to immerse himself in the lifestyle and he did into pornography drugs strippers and and the wound up, killing a young woman with him. He became involved here by with a little clumsy game of russian roulette, while up your body on the desert, gathered a working time for these four this book? Well, where were we yeah we're working we're calling it the one? I just finished it. We just titled it deadly d seat, that's about a man who murdered his own parents in Arizona and used it their money to take his fifteen year

moreover, the hawaiian random on their website without right, ask all homicide in Hollywood eels. Great title, so deadly deceit. When did that come out, they will come out. I just finished. All part of the process of publication now will probably come out a little bit later this year or early next year. Is that another title with Kensington that the areas within deadly deceit and illiteracy, great yeah? And then so? What made you start to write true crime. I know- maybe I don't know if we'd actually talked about it on the show last time when we did die for me, but, What made you, what compelled you to become involved with

true crime, genre. Well, that's what I read and I had a thirty year career with the phone company and spent a five years after that to just traveling the world, and I thought I got some time. I should be doing something else, and so I thought I'll write a book and will add always read true crime, books and and I've always had a deadly horror of being locked up in a little claustrophobic and being locked locked up. Just give me the shivers. So I read several books about people in life in prison, and so when I decide what should I do next, I gotta write it true crime books. So that's what got that started when a great second grew up? I had read great fun. Absolutely absolutely I'm in went on what point did you take a form they into fiction and I've not written any fiction? These are all non fiction books, every book of mine and and including the other one which is not the which is not true crime that was about world war. Two men shot down in

France and the rescue through the french underground, and what was the name of that book? That's called their their deeds of valor and that one comes from my heart. I love doing that. One 'cause I got to go interview scores of men who actually flew those B. Seventeens and fee fifty ones and and were shot down or crash, landed in France. Well, so I was really. I went to France as well and interviewed some of the French, the ground people, which was great fun, absolutely absolutely and done what you say.

You decided you draw always read true crime. What are the sum of one of the authors that uh we're influences for you interesting, of course Truman Capote was in cold blood was there is the pioneer and the second was onion field by Joe Wambach and right now I just finished reading, but one bars. I think it's about his 18th through 20th book and it ties in so nicely with with my homicide in the Hollywood hills. He even mentioned say detective, whom I interviewed a few weeks ago and is is acknowledged in his book. So it's going to tie and wonderfully with war buzzword who would want to buy yeah idols? When I forget writing well, it's also interesting as well, because I interviewed Philip Carlo another Pinnacle offer cancer can offer, but the night author and and the birth of family was involved with the capture Richard in that neighborhood when he was running from the law.

When I interviewed her and she told me that her friends were those hispanic people who chase Ramirez down and capture him It was just incredible to that story where Ramirez comes back into LOS Angeles and his face is all over the newspapers in the hip that people are saying, oh method, oral math authorities running away through the killer, regular credible, actually retraced his Rudy. Rather they have stopped at the little store. We saw the newspaper this picture on the proud about my pictures date taken at that same, lose them. Wow incredible incredible yeah. Well, I just want to thank you very much done for coming back on the program and with this second book that Just talked about, I guess, we'll have to talk about a lot more than that with your on your 20th right now, so I want thank you very much for coming on and talking you're great book honeymoon with a killer. Great story, and thank you very much for the interview done by pleasure Dan thanks. So much I'll be looking forward to talking to you on the next one.

Ok, don't have yourself a good evening! Ok! Thank you! Thank you. Goodnight bye. Even listen to the programme to murder the motion in killers in true crime, history and the office at a written about them with my special guest Don Lassiter with RON Bowers, that's honeymoon with a killer on Kensington Pinnacle is the true crime. Imprint have yourself a good evening goodnight. And now I thought from Geico Motorcycle. It took fifteen minutes to take a spirit, animal quiz online. Please be the cheetah, please be the cheetah and learn your animal, isn't the cheetah but The far less appealing blood fish

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