« True Murder: The Most Shocking Killers


2014-11-19 | 🔗
It was planned to look like a suicide.But even in the best-laid plans, evidence is left behind…Jocelyn Branham Earnest was found dead on the floor of her living room in Forest, Virginia. By her side was a gun and a suicide note—typed, lacking a signature, and with one fingerprint on it. A fingerprint apparently belonging to Jocelyn’s estranged husband…Wesley Earnest was a respected high school administrator, poised to restart his life in a new community. Parents entrusted their children to his care and believed he was above reproach. But the investigation into the life the couple once shared would reveal adultery, troubled finances, and shattered dreams—enough for one man with murder on his mind to travel hundreds of miles…UNDER COVER OF THE NIGHT-A True Story of Sex, Greed and Murder-Diane Fanning  
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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You are now listening to true murder, the most shocking killers and true crime history and the authors that have written about Gacy, Bundy Dahmer, the night Stalker Dck every week, another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killer, true crime, history, room murder, with your host journalist and author Dan. This is Nancy good evening. It was planned to look like a suicide, but even in the best laid plans, evidence is left behind
US one brand him Ernest was found dead on the floor of her living room in forest. Virginia buyer side was a gun in a suicide note, typed lacking a signature and with one finger print on it. A fingerprint apparently belonging to Joslin's estranged, husband, Wesley Ernest was respected. High school administrators ways to restart his life in a new community engine trusted their chilled who is Karen, believed he was above reproach, but the investigation into the light. The couple one shared would reveal adultery troubled finances and shattered dreams enough for one man with murder on his mind to travel hundreds of miles the book there were featuring this evening, his undercover of the night
a true story of sex greed and murder, with my special guest journalist and author Diane fanning. Thank you for green this interview and welcome back to the program. Diane fanning. Thank you again, nice to be with you again night. Well, thank you very much, and I've just got to say to our audience that you were the the very first guest that we had on the program talking about. You're, wonderful book, baby, be mine and it this quite the beginning of the program, and I want to thank you very much for starting in Austin being one of the great guest and especially great. To start off this true murder. So now we're almost five years into the program and you're back here at the about another five books, your building that five year. So
I want to congratulate you on this book, fantastic and incredible tales, and so let's get right to that sand. Diane. I is give us a little bit of the history on this Bedford community. You were, you were living in Texas when we spoke to. I don't know if those last time, but what one time you were living in Texas, the tell us I you came to be have something so close to home and terms of a book. Well, the funny thing is stand that I actually signed the contract. Well, I was living in Texas and had no plans of moving and then things in life change, in my personal life changed and suddenly it seemed to be time to move back to Virginia
and we ended up buying a home about twenty miles from the murder scene. Wow amazing, now just before we get into talking about this too, is your within on another publisher decided to publish is not so. I thought that was an interesting story as well not taking anything away from the last publisher, but why it came to be that you kind of we're fighting for this story. Well. I really believed in his story Becaus. It was another case of a woman who was well loved by friends and family, who is respected professionally. Ladies who all was the major breadwinner in her home. She had everything going for her
There was no thing in her life that said: oh she's taking risks. She could become a victim. There was nothing there, and yet this professional, charming woman somehow ended up dead in her own home, shot at the one person who once promised to protect her, and he seems like a great guy. So let's go back and talk about Jocelyn talk about his early life and and what basically shaped her to become the kind of really upstanding kind of person that she really was well loved by everyone. I know that seems to be cliche, but this is a very the over achieving type person very dynamic person. So, let's, let's talk about Jocelyn in her early life and what would that was like what shaped her?
withdraw Salen was always a very athletic girl and she grew up. Basically, as a tomboy and all he's wanting to do deuce. Something a little more and achieve a little more. Born in Morgantown West Virginia and she was a good size baby, which she promised to grow up to be big and hardy, and she did come- become quite robustly athletic girl. She participated in high school sport, and then when she went to the University of West Virginia, she stab one record after another. She was a tremendous basketball player, also enjoyed playing volleyball and
it was through a lot of her love of sports and her age for competition that found commonality with Wesley Ernest, while She was a college they used to watch sports together they used to play together. They worked in school. Together. They both ended up getting Mbas, and after they married was little Sue got his doctorate, so they say team, well matched athletic, ambitious, hard, working and very driven, and that was the tragedy of it all two people who could have accomplished so much.
We're now going to accomplish nothing more. So let's talk about Wesley. Let's talk about Wesleyan ten. What were his personality was? He was a really you say, charismatic good, looking successful yeah, most people of of another side, so tell us what you found about his character, one very controlling and all eat. Part of the way he tried to control Jocelyn was by belittling, are he would not hesitate to do that in front of friends, he would talk about how the wedding band on his cell
anger showed his ownership. He tried to restrict her friendships and cut off caught her off from her best friend, He also did something that was very unusual. Neither one of them had been religious and suddenly Wesley decided to become a Jehovah's witness. Now that was peculiar for someone who is married to Jocelyn because Jocelyn came from a family were holidays, were a big deal. Every holiday of the year was a big deal, particularly thanksgiving in Chris They went all out to celebrate. They did everything from black Friday shopping, to go into parades of Christmas and thanks guy
bring in every other holiday, which is huge and Wesley became part of a religion that did not believe in celebrating any holidays. Not even birthdays. Birthdays were also a big thing and Jocelyn his family, so this was inexplicable to Jocelyn. She couldn't understand it why he would want to do that, and not only did he want to do that, but he did want to interfere with her ability to enjoy those occasions too. One time. He went with her to her family's house in West Virginia for Thanksgiving and when she went in to celebrate with their family, he sat out in the car the whole time it would not even come
and and join in the holiday meal it was. It was very strangely rigid and you almost thought he did that just because he knew the holidays meant so much Jocelyn, and that was another way of controlling her. No before we get into a little bit more of the controlling in terms of what he then suggests that they should do in terms of their sexual relationship and again that creates problems. But how was it? What is the diner? make between him. Is he the guy he's he's a football player handsome football player, and is this woman, although she's athletic and six, you know successful and and good looking is still, Is that how we draws are in, or does he do this transformation? What do you have in terms of in your book? Is it more of a gradual transformation,
and it becomes more controlling once he has, are in his lair once he's controlled to the point he's married her. He has in a in a serious relationship or is there something that she is had in her relationship that binds her for time with him. It tolerates well, I kind of behavior from him. I think he had a little bit of social security and I think that Made her a little easy, to fall under the spell of is good. Looking basketball star, and he had a way of of
making her feel initially not like. He was controlling our, but that he was caring for her and it was until after they were married that he really started trying to limit like, for example, her friends and you shoes, friends with New she spent time with, and also with the holiday thing. It was one of the reasons why Jocelyn decided. She didn't want children with him because she felt that their religious beliefs, we, totally incompatible that it would only cause problems? And she also didn't think that His controlling behavior would be a good environment for a child. Now, with this verbal abuse in this controlling
attitude? Does she believe that he is faithful and and what Does she discover and what is his behavior terms of allegations. What exactly does she find in terms of his faithfulness in this marriage? Well, I I think that she probably Cyst, back a little before she knew, but he he had, had a girlfriend that he started. Seeing and. She didn't really know about her. But when he talked about her You refer to her as this fat girl that needed his help and Jocelyn was having doubts about this, that he seemed to be a little too focused on her
for that. If that was the only thing in their relationship and and he claimed that she was so cleaning lady, and so she and her friend Jennifer, when about one night looking for his vehicle and they spotted him at park at all, restaurant and in the car was a very small red leather jacket, and she knew that that that woman was not a fat girl that needed someone's help, and that was the beginning of finding out, but she was still willing to give him another chance, and he actually suggested to her that you know Yes, this should be okay, that he should
be able to have someone on the side, but you didn't think that that made sense to be married to someone that was due Matt. So she. Then one night went with her friend Jennifer out to the home. He had built on Smith, Mountain Lake and that's where the final straw fail she looked into this beautiful home with glass windows all around and actually solve I'm going into bed together and starting to touch each other, and she screamed at them through the glass Ann, and that was the final straw for her. She knew that you know
All this lives with were exposed, and she had to believe what she saw. First Union and that's when she filed for divorce was she concerned about. Financial arrangements because we're talking about a nice home over one million dollars, a million and a quarter. So there was some affluence attached to at least who they believe at that time with him, was she concerned about that where she just trying to get out well. She was not so much concerned about that. She thought you know if that. In the beginning, all she wanted was a cozy little I been on the lake, it was all his idea to bill. A huge masterpiece to his wonderfulness The lake and it was you know the places.
Worth more than one million dollars and she didn't want it. She won't have anything to do with it. She was fine, she could keep their house in forest and he could keep the place in Smith Mountain light. There was a little problem, though, for Wesley in that he wanted to keep that house, but the market, the real estate market was down so he couldn't yet what what it was war and he couldn't get enough to cover the mortgage and with his salary alone, which was under a hundred thousand, he could not pay that mortgage by John
including for awhile. She was paying half of it help then, when she die, he no longer had them enough money for the mortgage, because people are looking at him and he couldn't get the life insurance. Now. What is the response? One they realize, with her best friend, Jennifer and her, you know doing undercover work and finding him to be fooling around with some woman, and so his stories are nonsense. What is your next move? She files for tell us about the divorce itself and proceedings in terms of how you know how amicable is he with the split on it was kind of messy. The financial level, because he wanted he won alimony, and
and he wanted her to cover some of his expenses of because you know technically she could afford it and, and he couldn't and then it got even creepier one night he washer wasn't there broke into our house and He found document that she was preparing for her attorney. That was basic a timeline of things that happened in their relationship and he actually wrote all these things on there and he wrote them as if they were coming from Jocelyn it was apparent when they found this, that it was different handwriting, but he I writing things like oh Jocelyn told me to she wants text anymore, go out,
in Halan get a girlfriend and she he was telling me she was making. He was. He was writing, notes that made it sound like she was praising him for being so understanding and such a good husband and- and things like that, it was. It was really bizarre but then another time he came to her house Legget night. He park just car a long ways away. He was dressed all all in black and due to our door, and she would not let him in here and you should call. Instead, she called Jennifer and Jennifer, came out and talked to a man to
do women. Finally, after couple hours got him to go away, but he was
adamant that should give some papers to Joycelyn that they stop going through the lawyers and just work this out between themselves and but really he he was trying to manipulate the whole situation to get what he wanted and law enforcement strongly suspects that that night, his his real intention was to come in there and kill her that night, and if that wasn't his intention, he was sure he was making a dry run to see if he could pull it off. Now. She just has a couple friends: Jennifer Ann Marcie, there's a Meza which later but but and there's also the issue of. Does she write any of this stuff down and who did she confide to? And what does she
tell her friends in terms of her now suspicion and and and sort of fear. What what does that entail? And what did she tell her friends and what kind of detail and tell us if there, if she's, writing, stuff down and she's writing and if you're her intimate thoughts down? She had a ballot. Seventeen here written journals she kept all they found most of them in her home, some of the in her office, where she wrote about everything that went on between her and Wesley everything he said and everything he did and everything she found,
now- and she also told her family and friends. That know, if anything ever happened to me, even if it looks like an accident, even if it looks like a suicide Wesley, did it yeah, that's not a that's, not a light. The sentiment, that's not a comment that people can just dismiss. So obviously there was an interaction between her friends in that she definitely feared for her life and and told her friends. Why? Well I don't answer the question yeah? What what was it? What was the reason she gave that she was other than these incidents, but why What was the reason why she believed that her husband would kill her if anyone well, she felt that
he wanted the life insurance. He wanted her assets. He one eight to chose to get her out of his life so that he didn't have to fool with any of this divorce stuff anymore, because he didn't feel he was getting a fair shake out of it. He really thought that you should be getting support from our and nothing was going. The way he wants was he how how rejected was c n? How angered was he by that rejection? Well, I mean she did reject him and he was angered by that because he certainly- oh, was losing control and she wanted that control, He didn't really want her as a person. He
he's already involved with someone else and perfectly happy with that, other woman and and he did nade to everybody in his new job in Chesapeake, Virginia that he even married second and now I've never been married before, and he also with very dismissive of his current girlfriend to them, he refer River as some chick I met in the mountains, so he he did not have a lot of respect for women in general and even last or n. The woman came under his control and in any measure, and he really didn't see any problem with how he was because
very narcissistic, he was always looking for people to look up to him. To praise him. He talked about how he didn't need to work. I told all the people there he didn't need to work because he was independently wealthy and had property in California and had its beauty, lake home and meanwhile out in Chesapeake, he's living in the this boarding house then he's living in a ratty little trailer on a campground I mean he did don't have much anything good. He was talking to my. Good care before we get into the actual day and night.
I love how your book has the minute by minute texting between Marcy and Jocelyn, and then the text fall away so before we get into that. I just wanted to know, as I can for our audience to, and this will be important in a car obviously will be important. What was written in the journal say the last day for the last days, and it was it a cryptic message: was there something in there? Besides, you know telling our friends at if Something happens to me. Was there anything in a premonition type way in those last few days in her journal, she said he will probably shoot Maine, and then he will shoot himself and what day was that.
Or just days, I believe that was that was just days before she died. Ok, now we're talking about the Christmas time and Mars takes a couple of weeks off. She has ability where she works. An important person takes a couple weeks off to get haulers Christmas shopping done, and everything done for preparations, like you say, Jocelyn's, very much into the holidays and more see I've been being great friends Jennifer there everybody's into the holidays, so she has some time off and they're texting and we're Nick. This is around well very close to Christmas, but a week before Christmas December,
the 19th or so and so tell us about the day, and they like many people text between each other at work and so tell us about that day in the conversations that they had via text. Well, they they texted back and forth that day. Talking about getting together that evening, and that was definitely what they planned to do was was to get together that evening. But the plans were a little fluid because Jocelyn had meetings at work, She was going to see her our therapist after work as she you know, so it all depended on when she wrapped up her day and Marcy was, you know, definitely flexible since she wasn't working that week
she was an unusual situation where she and her husband were so living in the same house, but they were technically separated and staying in separate bedrooms. So she had a babysitter there to take care of the kids, so she was free to come and go as she wanted. And she also out running errands and still not hearing from Jocelyn. After the last message when they talked about getting together and it was getting late and it was getting a little late for dinner and she was starting to get nervous about and she went to Two,
office to drop by off the Christmas gift. She gotten for Jocelyn, which was a set of Christmas lights for her house and just wanted wanted those, but hadn't had them 'cause once wouldn't allow them before. And then she started thinking yeah. Maybe I will go out and check on her and she would not. She notice that Jocelyn's car was there, but the let's see light on in the house and she open the door and didn't get an answer and and finally, she just gave up and went home, but you still probably very troubled the next one. She went to work and there's still no charge for and she calls you there. They were two different, all the works, the same company but in different offices. All of
for her and she wasn't there and family choose. How did that little later in the morning. She just had to go out an something must be wrong. She was afraid she hurt herself or was set and so she she went out there and couldn't get an answer at the want door work answer the back to work she knew there was spare key. Being a shed, but she later, that look that are Jocelyn and security system and she didn't know the code. So she called another for in Mesa to get the code for the security system from her in that's when she let herself in the back door, and so all the body of Jocelyn laying on the floor. She rushed to her side
and realize she wasn't breathing and there was nothing she could do. She called me first, which kind of seems a little strange, but she was and, and they discussed it in both decided they need to call nine one one and they did Now, like we alluded to in the synopsis of the book. If you can, you can tell us how she was found, but right away when police are it will come there. They see a suicide note, so tell us about the suicide note and all of how she was exactly found, because this is of course, the very most important part of the evidence. Well, once the homicide detectives got, their red flags started flying
For one thing, there was a long streak of paralyzed when it crossed the living room floor and is look like her hair again trunks through it. The other thing was the position of the gun. The gun was sort of born one side of her body on her coat, but it was on a way where, if someone had used the gun to shoot themselves, it wouldn't have naturally fallen, but then they found this folded up note on the floor and they opened adult and it was all typewritten and it had no signature.
And, quite frankly, it was pretty kind to Wesley, and so they didn't know anything about the relationship at this point, but they soon learn when they start talking to her friends, but they also learn in search. In the house. They were all there were all these handwritten journals. So why would somebody that filled all these notebooks with handwritten notes? Why would a person like that type, the suicide note and plus there was- No functional printer in the home? None of the computers had a printer hooked up. There wasn't a typewriter there, so where did it come from.
And not listen all for analysis, yeah and so there's going to be. Some fingerprint analysis will talk about that in a bit as well. So what do they determine with the streak of hair in terms of? But what did they conclude? I'm not. It seemed obvious when they could take SAM and the way the hair who's playing with blood in it, and the blood trail across the floor that at some point in time, while she was still bleeding someone move. Moved her body, it was not the kind of movement that she could have made herself.
Right away, that it wasn't a self inflicted gunshot when police spoke to Marcy. Did she have anything to say in terms of who she thought? Might on this Marcy immediately pointed finger and Wesleyan told him that she was afraid of Wesley, and so was our Jocelyn Jocelyn we'll see how she would when she came home she often would before she would get out of the car. She would look all around. Sometimes she would drive back or house and come back to make sure no one was there and um
marcy was very much in love with Jocelyn Jocelyn kissed her wants, but I don't think that Jocelyn was inclined that way. I just knowing how much he felt Jocelyn was just kind to her at that point in time, but there was not a relationship or romantic relationship between them. Although there or romantic feelings on Marcie's part and she Jocelyn. Told her enough of that, what Wesley is done, that Marcie was afraid that if I. Wesley learned about how she felt about Jocelyn that he would kill her too so
He wouldn't even go out and I'll know a time without having a weapon on her. Was there any indication did Wesley haven't ended indication that Marcie was lesbian, preferred women or I mean, I don't think that was we, do that at all, and the only reason it came out was because Wesley in this. He was note he composed oh as if he were jostling, talked about a New relationship and and we it is thought that he probably did that to implicate someone else in her life and take the heat off of of him. Also peculiar thing. They found
for as condoms in the drawer no one else who had known her clothes, we like her mother and her sister and her best friend and I had ever seen, condoms. In that house after Wesley moved out? They just weren't there they've been in that particular drawer and they hadn't been there. So there was a strong suspicion that he Then it goes as well, though, is also in the spare bathroom the condom wrapper thrown in the trash, so it looked like he was trying to set everything up that this was uh
all because buyer roaming, and so they didn't, buy the suicide. They would be looking for this other man. What was because we haven't? We, you haven't said what was actually in that note. What was said in that know, what's the gist of that note, Juno already talked about Wesley being, a good guy. And that she was sorry for what she was doing she couldn't take. Your anymore and she said she is always tried to appear of, like she was doing well, but everything was just so overwhelming and she fell I'm so lonely. So much of the time
And her new love wouldn't leave, leave the family and and we, Wesley, add buried, listen dad, and so she was just sorry. She just said she didn't have the strength. More- and she was writing it to her mother and saying she was sorry now police. Look at all of the evidence. Obviously, like you say, the red flags were evidence right in the beginning, because of the left and right, you know shot in the left Temple gun on the right side, all kinds of things that are they're not right. Don't look right now to compound that problem, they contact Wesley and what does he have to say? How does what's his demeanor
here and what his response to the news that his wife has been murdered or speak. It kinda was blase about it all he suggested to. Inside right away and said that he learned about it from his girlfriend's mother. Although police had been calling, and leaving messages all day I mean he didn't. To gather anything from that and he just didn't seem to be as rattle and as one would think he would be he was also asked to come in and to be questions that night and he refused. He said I want to do it,
next morning, and so they asked no no, and they said they commented to that. He really didn't ask too many well, he didn't ask questions about it. Didn questions he didn't ask: how did she die? He didn ask: where did it happen he had a very low cool to say and just couldn't be bothered to go to the police station. That night, it seemed to me even if you're in the middle of divorcing someone if they're suddenly dead, I mean you had all those years together. You spent all those years in the same bed. It seemed like you would get up the desire to do. Something right away and you know I'll, I'm just I'm just I just drove up from just what tired. So how do
please proceed and how long is it before they make an arrest and what what do they base the and tell us about the details of the eventual. Charging an arrest. How long does that take and tell us about that? Well, it took. It took a little while because they had to get back oh, you know they had to in investigate some other people, some that he had pointed out an just other people that were in her life that like, for instance, the people the first person they found the body, the second person on the scene. Those things were, of just you know the are there things they needed to cover? They couldn't arrest some
on and had have loose ends all over the place, and so they took their time looking into all those things and It was a little more than a month later when they finally did arrest him. When they had taken care of all the questions and one two things and that made that very are likely to happen, and it was a result of the single print test on it. The suicide note which showed that it was way and the other thing was the return turn of the autopsy report, which called her death homicide and not suicide. How did they come to that conclusion? Why did they come to that
Lucien Co. Medical examiner came to that conclusion because all the way that angle of the wound, the wait. It came in sort of in the back of her ear, which is a very often in place to try to hold a gun, and it Also was where the gun itself was. I mean the death scene was part of bad and
nation, and so all of those things factor together and the medical examiner reach a conclusion of a homicide. No, it does Wesley as you have the means, or does the the ability to get a high profile lawyer. Obviously, he's he's smart enough not to have said anything and made any incriminating statements. So how does he proceed with his? defense and what is the theory of the prosecution? What do they think? The motive is for this and how the the sort of present their case they did. The prosecution seen sees Americans Green catch You know Wesley, wanted her money and her assets to continue his
I love life in retrospect, he probably miscalculated because he Ended up not only having to jump there every bit of money he originally got from. Chance in two are the lawyer and then, let's have in com. He was about to lose his house and in all likelihood he was the one that set it on fire because it wasn't intentionally. Let fire at that one point: two million dollar lake home, but they think he she was just not doing what Wesley wanted and not giving him the kind of support in the separation, not letting things go his way, and he just thought it was going to be
a whole lot easier for him and his future if she was just call one now for the the the trial boss that are out there in the audience, which I am a big, huge murder, trial, Buff and how things are different in different places. How does it work in terms of the journals now what the police, the police, looked at them? The prosecution has them, but what happens in terms of admissibility of those journals? in this trial. We have a long Virginia the charge, wool that its the journals them into the jar, the contents of journals were not admissible on, could not sing bye
jurors, Becaus to present them as evidence would be to put witness that could not be cross examined by the defendant, but he he did allow journals as an exhibit, and he did allow the testimony from the therapist who knew do a lot of what we spent journals, but the journals and selves were only an exam. And not allowed to be entered into evidence, unfortunately, yes go ahead unfortunately during the Deliberations in the trial, the journals for put in the Wrong Box and they went back to the jury room
and the jurors sat in there and read through them. Now the jurors didn't think they were doing anything wonk because of course- they were out of the courtroom when all this was argued between the lawyers and the judge, so they had no idea, then I think was going wrong. And would take it to the other trial they find was Lee guilty and all that's left is for Wesley to be sentenced so in between the time that the Your verdict to given and the sentence was rendered one of the jurors was defending the is you made by the jury, because there were those in the community who were standing up for wet.
And we're saying that there wasn't enough evidence, and this juror said I was a member, wrote, anonymously's, Bedford President said I was a member of this jury and we read through those journals, and there was enough evidence of there'd convict him. It was all right there laid out clear as day. Well when that was found online bye, Jocelyn sister. She. Knew. This was a problem, so she called the prosecutor and the prosecutor and he It was a problem too. He called in his investigator and the next say
thing they did was they had to inform the defense and that inform the charge and the judge really had no choice. This was a clear via so mistrial was granted and his has been convicted once he is more of a flight risk and no, he can't get our bond, so at least he was I'm out running loose where a lot of the witnesses were frightened of him. What was the now, how long is it before they have this second trial, and I will give everything away. We won't.
Everything away in terms of what happens, but when is it that Wesley's lawyer comes up with the idea that to cast some doubt on his client as being emerge, for and of course, targets. Marcie Shepherd is that the same well that had. No! That happened in the first trial. He was I was hammering away at Marci or Mesa as being the perpetrator of them and he he I was really making that almost all this his case, and when it came time for the second trial, the judge says: hey, I let you do this because I thought you were going to be presenting proof, but you didn't. There is no proof that
activities, women are, you can't buy Virginia law, be smart, someone else unless you're, offering actual proof of their guilt, yeah. So he wasn't allowed to do that. So his next tactic, all was too question liability I'll fingerprint Ave. Now how you know it's interesting. I've done this show for almost five years, and just in the last six months, I've heard that print analysis and relying on fingerprint analysis as religiously might not be. Such a great idea tell us what you found and what this trial was trying to say enter in terms of fingerprint analysis, and it's.
Its reliability. Well, it's their own, our some problems with it, because part of the process has to be subject to. For example, if you take our fingers print sample from a crime scene, odds are you're. Not gonna have a complete, perfect fingerprint like if it was done on a pad or scanned on a computer. They they system, people smear a little bit, they don't set their whole finger down with equal weight, it is size varies depending on how much pressure is used. So there are a lot of variables. So when you get back possible matches from save computer figure they're just that possible matches, then
everything has to be looked at one on one by an expert and now it says they can't unnecessarily alright. Just it's not like it's going to be a photograph and they're going to be perfectly identical. They're going to be missing, pieces my check thanks. So he does seek something as subjective nature and what has been set out is there can be on occasion on expectation by by the single currency in a later, so that is, they are so much expecting it to be Joe's single print dead days, see what they want stay here, and you know more what they don't walk
it's sort of the same thing of Thomas Jefferson said something to the effect that is humans. If we have a belief in We all are presented with factual information. We will accept what matches without the leaf and disregard anything that might contradict. And it's the same kind of thing with with this analysis that there is that subjective component. Now. There are a lot of system setup, be cause of that in different law enforcement agencies, where they do. You just rely most places now go just rely on one person's analysis of the situation. Think it's someone else to go over the material at least one other person. Often
more than that to make sure they reached the same conclusion, and that's one way to to minimize that problem. One of the parts that that the defense is coming up with with they insert about matching size, which I don't think it's something you can never do because of the different pressure uh and of that nature, and they were wondering if they they were seriously questioning? the total reliability of fingerprint is evidence. Well, it's there's incredible amount of circumstantial evidence and that there's some compelling circumstantial evidence. Well, we didn't talk about what was his alibi, where was Bristol Allophonic was, if wasn't feeling so well,
And she also had allergy problems and he just picked up a carry out dinner and went home and spent the whole night in Chesapeake, which is three and a half four hours away from where we're chose from turn law enforcement found now that he borrowed another man's truck and was able. There was enough time for him to drive to Jocelyn's place after work stage that scene her and
vaccine then drive all the way back and get to work in time the next day, and that is exactly what they think you did. What is the Julius saying was when they I found out that they saw him pull up at a different pickup truck when he came in the police, and they ask him about that truck and he got paranoid and went back to Chesapeake took it bar
friend struck again and put new tires on it interesting. This is vicious. What was his demeanor like at that first trial and especially when he thought he had, he had one well, he he was pretty cocky. He felt I mean Wesley is a narcissist. He thinks that he is smarter than everyone else and he sings there not apply to him, so he We got off on the witness stand and all told his story with All the your insurance in the world very cocky to the point that No one had evidence of how He could have gotten in to write on Johnson
this timeline, but he said there in the witness sand and basically Bragg about the window with a broken latch. You he to get into and their so would have never known it yeah his cockiness and smugness undid himself there on the stand, yeah yeah, and that is often the downfall- is the Eragon
smart people who commit crimes and are airing again about it, tend to slip up on account of their own hubris. Now, with this second trial, is there any major differences like what what I've found encouraging is that the judge did say? Listen, I I thought that you had were once more. I thought you were going somewhere with the theory of of an alternate suspect, but he dismissed that for that second trial other than that was there any major differences in what was let in and what was not let in was there any differences at the onset of that second trial. Well,. If the defense wanted to bring in a witness, Jennifer and who is a professor out in California who in case was anyone there was for
shall sensibilities. They made sure everyone knew that she had been educated University of Virginia and They were to bring her in to testify on the lack of reliability the evidence how wherever they wanted her. As an expert witness and the prosecution of jet Because she never dad done any fingerprint analysis, so she couldn't be an expert on that She had been doing an extensive study or analysts across the country. But that's not the same thing. And so she was not allowed to testify and so that was that a huge blow to the defense. Obviously, they had planned for that and there's a big yeah Keith parts so they had two big defeats in the
second trial. I mean the mistrial. If they had a chance of winning, it was there because they spread around so much as much reasonable doubt as they could buy for each other people and they didn't survive that so It's no wonder that once they couldn't do that and couldn't get there other Back door option in and they they just do we have a whole lot of hope. Is it an interesting and unique where you see a super flood like you talked about how the journal's got to be exhibits again. I'm not Quite sure how that could happen, but then the jury gets to read those. So this inadvertent, oops Really help you have the case that they should have one in the first place really
for for everybody concerned was, it was just simple human error. Simply journals were in the court room, green, being stored as an exhibit and he for demonstration purposes? Only then there's evidence.
Exhibit once it's been formally introduce evidence, then the jury can see it when it's just been interested in entered sort of as show Intel. The jury can't see it. You know they can't examine it afterwards, so it was just a simple slip up in what belonged in which box and you can see how really, when you think about all the exhibits and stuff that the court clerk has to deal with and how sometimes are being numbered and tossed in so fast how easy it would be to get get something put into the wrong box. Does enough, usually with both estroff boxes and boxes of exhibit.
In reports and all sorts of evidence? I just said it up the wrong place very interesting. What we won't give the rest of it away. I want to leave a little tidbit for everyone to read in the second trial, because it's it's an interesting. It's an interesting two trials. That's for sure, and it's it's a big part of your as well, but it's an amazing portrayal of the characters behind it, especially Jocelyn Marcy, and so the heroes of this book, basically because it takes a lot to put this guy away. Finally, and and so it's a justice does prevail, but it takes a while, though, isn't it, it certainly did this in this case. Most definitely and and it ages, you know you gotta feel so badly for or the IT family and friends you they. They suffered such a
blow in losing someone they cared about so much and then to have to go through one trial is. Is really a torment, but when it stretches to to trial? If it's it's on godly on the it's a horrible thing and- and I I surely would not want to walk in their shoes. Certainly and in the research of this book, of course you spoke to Jocelyn's friends and tell us about some of the people that you did get a chance, because this really is your your neck is to be able to get to some people and still confide in you, and so you can get the real draw real picture and not just you know news
paper accounts one of the people that was just a joy to talk to was Jocelyn's father. He told me just just tons and tons of stories about Jocelyn and her sister growing up for more than I could put the book, but that you know it was just the love that man had for his daughters was so uh parent, and although you could feel your his pain when you talk to him, his joy and having had, that order was also so obvious and all just listening to her, and why she was like. Is it a little girl and as a teenager and
as an adult daughter was it was. It was just very touching and on you, just wish that everybody had a father that cared about them as as much as Jocelyn? And then another huge help to me was Jocelyn's friend, Jennifer who all was chronically introduced learn by Wesley and agency. They just hate, you Wesley said. I think you two will hit it off and he was right. They hit it off completely. They were both very athletic and competitive and if they had so much fun to
gather in both log cabin that Jennifer and her husband had up over in the lake in Canada. It was very primitive and Jocelyn just loved it, and she she did a lot of photography, which she learned from her dad and she to pictures up fair of the beauty of the lake and the people. Gathered around it and the little house and ate to know second hand. Jocelyn Ernest through the eyes of her phone Father sister and her, Best friend was a gift. She was really a special special woman
and we have all lost something a great deal when she was taken from us at such a young age. Yes- and I want to congratulate you too- I mean you really do capture the friendship that these women had to, Mais, Jennifer and and Marcy, and even people in the office and and that's really, I That's it says a lot I mean it seems cliche or was it was such a wonderful person, but you really do have that in conversations and important events and just how they they grieved, how they they their friendship, was how they love each other and how they grieved and how they fought for this person to be brought to justice, and so it's a
You really do paint that vivid portrayal of these women and- and I think that that that Jocelyn will not soon be forgotten by these people and and you've done a real. I think service by doing this book to and and sort of the tone and the people that have no of your work again now. This is, isn't it your thirteenth true crime book that you have this one. I think so. Yes, I think it's the 13th. Yes, Anna Track, but yeah- and I was very data- wonderful thing was that I did get such nice notes from docile and sister Anne from her best friend when the book came out with how very pleased they were. With that, I captured Jocelyn essence.
Well, I want to thank you very much Diane, but for those that do the facebook will like to be a facebook friend or or would like Is your website or find more about this case or other books that you have? Can you give us your website, and this is your facebook, if you're interested in that my website is www, DOT, dianefanning dot com, and all my facebook is, you know, facebook dot com Forward slash and dot and I also on Facebook have a true crime books page, which is you, Facebook, dot, com, slash true crime books, and that's where I have stuff about my true
find books, including updates on any other news stories having to do with the cases I've written about and occasionally some other news that gets. My and I love to hear back from people who read my books and and people hear me on the radio, so I'm glad to take messages anytime. Well, thanks very much and those listening we've been talking about undercover of the night, a true story of sex greed and murder. Diane fan thank you very much Dan. You have a great evening and I'm sure we'll be talking to you again real soon. Thank you for this interview. Great thank you. Dan bye, bye tonight. And now I found from Geico Motorcycle. It took fifteen minutes to take a spirit, animal quiz online, speed the cheetah would be the cheetah.
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Transcript generated on 2019-11-05.