Hello Russell here. I'm excited to share some of my conversation with Charles Eisenstein call it a free bit Charles ICES dies or fast Baker, a new economy movement, he he's written a number of books, including sacred economics, a good and the assent of humanity, a bloody good, I'm climate, a new story, if you haven't heard our previous conversation, go back and listen to me after this one, if you ain't Reddy's article, the coronation, you'll really really really really like it. I sent a round allowed to Paypal. He's a brilliant man. He's got a proper academic background. They went to Yale but he's properly into new age stuff, and he presents a really global per se, two on the corona virus scenario: scenario, fattening and also what did I about what do? I think that Charles Eisenstein, I think, he's got very brilliant mind and I think he's is a vivid, an optimistic speaker if your interest

in changing the world. He's a person you should check out the full podcast. He got fifteen twenty minutes here. You can have that for nothing or I'll. Give you that to get you hooked and you can get a subscription. If luminary for as little as two dollars. Ninety nine a month with their annual plan, plus you get a seven day. Free trials get started, visit, luminary, podcast, dot, com, start your free trials, loads, good stuff, in their career mode. On there I'm going to go on his podcast alpacas on there we got wreckage of ice coming up on it, Lena Dunham's on there she's been on our podcast have not been on earth. I think it's about talking about in there why women adopt insane, so I can't be on it, so I'm tried anyway, so find out about luminary and Gay Asia ain't that much money for our good. It is available in our market subject to local currency terms of life,

trying to achieve equality with the annihilation of category nor successful, that's exactly right. We're in this era where it turns out, we were never works beneath the surface of people. We admire the ideas that the finance on the history and welcome to Russell brand. Under this scheme, I think that we are going to see significant amounts of social disruption. Civil unrest, people are angry and with good reason, you know, I'm not asking people not to be angry, there's a kind of a righteous fury and indignation boiling under the surface, the region That and has been her for a long time been suppressed for a long time diverted for a long time onto you know.

Birdy NEWS in gender, pronoun debates, and that kind of thing. But it's it's not going away and getting stronger and stronger Because of inequality, you think, Charles because what's been exposed about inequality that we not whilst we superficially having the same experience on our global locked down there, many many many different types of lockdown occurring. There are many different types of threat occurring based on like our economic and social positions, and this has been so of emphasised by these young people. It is inequality, but the anger this even in people who are in the one percent- and I think it's coming from the inequality- is part of a deeper sense of betrayal. The world was supposed to be getting better and better we're technology.

in science and reason and the rule of law and democracy. All these things were supposed capitalism and the the efficiency you know. All of these things were supposed to deliver us unto Utopia and it looked like it was working Two years ago, each generation was better off than the last or so it seemed, and that has not continued. My generation is not better off, certainly not happy are certainly not healthier than my parents generation let alone them millennials, who can ever for their own house. Any more people are becoming in western countries in the developed, so called countries more more miserable more and more unhappy, even if they're in the one percent. This is the biggest myth that the system works only for the one percent nonsense it does. For the one percent either if you want to find it.

actually happy person you probably have to go to a in Peru or Afghanistan, or something like that, find some hundred gather somewhere. So the problem with the with the righteous anger rage, the fury, is that it gets diverted onto false enemies, and never exercises its true purpose, which is to flesh out the route toxins to reveal the truth that power, the power of anger, can reveal the truth. And when the truth comes into the dna of the culture, then we begin making different decisions so the best way to defuse the rough revolutionary potential of this anger would be to set up some bad guys to blue

for the problems, because then we can kill the bad guys we're take down the bad guys without changing the system that generates new bad guys. not actually even saying there are no conspirators conspirators or no super powerful people, but why are they so powerful? Is it because they have superhuman powers and they can fly and teleport and read minds not really there are no different than you and then than you and me. You know the day. Depend on our agreement with them, they depend on our buy in to certain stories of what's important, what's true how the world works and if we stop buying into that, they will have no power. Charles M militant, some of the things you said early in your answer there I was struck by how intense

of the rhetoric and almost actually the of the timber of what you're saying was comparable to what of what has become known as all right rhetoric. You know, like the sense of light you are not going to in your house. Look I'll watch, Steve, Bannon who's gonna come on the show as a guest actually in over the next few weeks addressing the ox for the union and I must say it was like thirty forty minutes before he said anything that I could disagree with you. Never outside they know, platform what chance and stay and state just outlined what happened after the crash in two thousand and eight the decisions that are made the maid, and it was only the myself pre Previous knowledge of what stave barons political allegiance is ah the kind of political projects that he supports, and indeed in it rights that gave me a silver different, Lens Avenant agreement. Also

When you talk about lot, you know, like their contentment, happiness in the soul of birch, systemic betrayal, of the narrative of progress I would say let me in I have not done anything like the kind of research you ve done feels like he's just a something that's been numb increasing from agriculture through industrialization, for the technological age is of increasing aggregating aggregation of human life and beings, they stood the dominion over the earth dominion over the people, dominion over woman and when you said Like you know you have to some peruvian nepalese village, or find a hunter gatherer somewhere. I was struck by the It resonated me because of my belief that there are some universal truths not when it comes down to how individuals my identify live their lives express themselves, but when it comes to the way that humanity has evolved, the fur

many more years than we have lived in a nice industrialized cultures we lived in hum. I gave her a coach as these are the conditions we ve evolved, for. This is what our nervous system is set up for. An all true progress reflects our essential condition: which seem like I'm not suggesting saying that there ain't brutality to a hunter gatherer lifestyle from what I've read and it's like in a death, his paw paw, so Paul apostle of it, someone sick, out you know them Wigan after let them go and as a kind of an eye mercy lessons to it, but in existence. in the knowledge of the sacred that seems to be like this of the wifi of the hunter gatherer time is it. Management, the way connected to the food we were connected to the war we drink were connected to one another. It seems that it is these vitality, precisely Spain lost in the march of centralization, the March of material and technological advance, and it is here-

that we will find many, the solutions to our problems in a kind of river, not version and continued evolution along the pathway, the into inverted commas intended pathway bodies in whether yeah yeah So as far as what humans have evolved for there's a big mystery there I mean you could say that. Our that all cells evolved for single celled existence,. Yet in their dna were codes that enabled multi cellular existence. And I think the same is true on an honour, not level for human beings. Yeah we evolved to live in

to gather abounds. Yet we also have within us the capacities to live in larger collectives and live in a beautiful way. You can see that there are so many futures that are available to us I invoked the image of of standing at at the end of a road where a hundred paths irradiating out into an hundred different futures, and we can catch a glimpse of a really beautiful future. That is not a return to the past. that resonates with things that we ve seen in our lives like the city, there's an archetype of the city that you catch a little glimpses, sometimes in London, in New York, in Tokyo, where, where there's just this ferment of cultural action

Eddie, where you can find your little tribe, no matter how arcane your interests are, where things are possible that are not possible. Maybe there's a certain excitement about about the city that draws young people to it, a place where you can read find yourself outside of your normal, reinforcing circumstances. There sitters beauty in all of the creek dozens of civilization and technology- and I don't think that our hour films of our destiny would be to abandon those those gifts, but it is also to bring back in the things that we have excluded, for example, from

The hunter gatherer traditional indigenous way of seeing the world we ve highly highly developed along a certain axis of development. And neglected, so many other ways that human beings can develop and and and marginalized those so there's the development I mean, for example, australian aborigines had tens of thousands of years of development of the technology of dream, other cultures, the technology of of psychedelic plants, other tech, other cultures, the technology of of communication with beings of nature, others, the the science of human energetics. You know I'm looking at at chinese culture, for example or India. You know these have been relegated to the outskirts of reality in a culture

that worships quantity, because these are hard to quantify or impossible to quantify and science says that if you can't quantify it, if you can't measure it, it's not real. So it's a matter of bringing all that's been who did back in and socially and politically to accrue if we excluded and pushed out and what parts of ourselves have we pushed up. My I make a case as a kind of experiment for the idea that the things that you described about a c a as being beautiful- and I remember those days I remember. Enchantment at New York have not been to Tokyo. I tried to go and they kicked me out. Actually, when I landed at London. Of course, If, in London, more than I've lived anywhere else, and I felt that so have a look

and magic stay or overseas aid, but could we a case be made Charles the things that are beautiful about urbanized life? All this? central displacements, notably the kind of worship of culture itself, As a displacement of a loss of our connection to the sacred I mean popular culture is an obvious example: war war is being refracted when we adore Jimi, Hendrix or just in Babylon Madonna, there's a clue in the name of this is the third one. What what what is being projected- and I wonder who benefits mostly from set huge urbanized centralized populations. War is at war. Invisible philosophy is embedded in every brick and in

I productive that might be a thriving, are saying, but the intention is this is the best way to corral. People enter industrialized, call innovations so you know when, as you said you another of limitless patent. your pathways term utopias and glowing futures and imp or even just improved civilization, but is is there anything that can be said with certainty in this post structuralist time like jumble high look. This is how human beings live for ten thousand years. Why don't we, when we set up systems as best as possible, try to replicate them? No, that there can be no so of mandate in particular religions or particular sexuality is or particular forms of self expression, so is going to require a kind of in, as you have suggested, massive tolerance beyond tolerance. Acceptance,

so and inclusive eighty? But I think that that can only be achieved when we are dealing with a large and perhaps a confederacy of fully autonomous groups that are self governing, as opposed to any kind of centralized governance, even if we're talking like city state as opposed to nation, the more people you put together that, yes, of course, there's these opportunities for collaboration and fora in a coalescence button. It seems that the reality we are experiencing now and I'm not just one thing or the other thing, but the reality disparity now is everyone's: the visual freedoms are somewhat inhibited with setting up straw, man, arguments and quarrelling over nonsense, because beneath the surface, where being dominated by an invisible. I would argue economic ideology about centralizing power, centralizing authority yeah, I'm your much agree with that. You know. I think I don't think we have to

ideologically discard the possibility of having cities and things like that, but we shouldn't take as inevitable continued trend towards greater and greater urbanization or centralisation, but we should ask: why should we should put it on the table and say what is the right role of a city. What do we want to keep about the old normal? And what do we want to? Let go of maybe one thing we want to keep is is some concentrations of population that are not happening, because people's land is being taken away from them, not happening. because subsidy, industrial agriculture is displacing the peasants not happening because of governor. policies to destroy local culture. They imposition of global media. That replaces

additional storytelling like not because any of those things, but because there is actually a positive role for MECCA points for pilgrimage points for places where you, no to have an extraordinary experience that are hosted By those who hold the city like it could be, we could return to that conception of a city which is actually thousands of years old cities. Originally built around temples. You went there on a pilgrimage where could be in five thousand years, is almost impossible to imagine today or at some sort of Charles and Stein again. I hope you enjoyed it, there's loads, more brilliant conversations I this available from under the skin from luminary. If you want to listen to our talk on this

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