Hi everyone, I'm Renee Brown, and this is unlocking in us today, I'm talking with doktor mark bracket and he's a the founding director of the Yale Centre for emotional intelligence and is a professor in Childs, Teddy Centre at Yale University. His research focuses on the road that emotional intelligence plays in learning decision, making creativity relationships, physical health and performance I know him from his many many scholarly articles. I think he's published over a hundred scholarly articles. You may know him from places like the New York Times or good morning. America. The days show PBS. You should dedicate his life too. Emotional literacy in here.

Groundbreaking work at Yale. He is the lead developer of ruler, which will talk about in the pot CAS, which is in evidence based approach to social emotional learning that is now inside of over two thousand schools from pre schools too high schools around. The world. Now I'm gonna tell you right now we're gonna dig into it. But permission to feel which just came out. The full title is permission to feel unlocking the power of emotions to help our kids ourselves, our society thrive, you're gonna, hear, me at my most nodded out geek on ness, if that's the thing in this podcast, because I've been working on a project and emotional literacy. Two years have been, it's gonna be coming out in twenty twenty one he's one of the people who I really look up to the most I've learned from he said. A couple of things

during this podcast. That blew my mind just not only as an emotions researcher but as a person, so subtle n butcher, your pods in and get ready for your wife grab your maggotty, wherever you are, I hope you can get your emotions on your goodness on with me in this, because I think Mark has a lot to teach us all right so mark. I think you know what question I have to start with after reading your new buck, did you and gas It's probably gonna, be about how I'm feeling I wanted to be original here come on. I wanted to be the feeling Oji. How are you feeling right now I'm excited to be here with you, I'm a about what's happening in our world right now, some having a lot of feelings alive at units.

I need to ask you this is, can be like a free session for me all and yoke and listen to me get fixed. So here's what's interesting for me and I dont know what to make of this exhausted and I am hopeful I am weary and I am grateful and there's this week thing going on right now, so we start all of our meeting. On zoom, with my team, there's probably thirty of us with a too check and feeling check it? That's how we start our meetings. What I'm seeing right now he's weird paradoxical feelings and emotions. What is that? I think it's normal no actually just to the study last week with five thousand people across the in asking them. You know how are they feeling is the number one emotion with anxiety right when it was blew up

The only people who you know felt grateful and hopeful and optimistic. I think it's or of a regulation strategy that it I've gotta say that as I gotta have hope, because it is gonna that right now, oh wow So is there a difference between like a regulation, strategy and bullshitting people like? What's the difference there Well, we are brains. Do to tell ourselves stories right, so right think it's a helpful strategy. Its itself talk strategy, you're, not gonna, be grateful. I'm gonna be hopeful it in and make a difference, and I'm gonna get through this and having that positive self talk makes all the difference. And I knew it ya? I knew this is going to be good, ok, so star in. I began to your book permission to feel I have to say that. Social emotional learning, emotional literacy has been a big part of my work force twenty years. Your work is amazing. Thank you. I mean just

incredible. Ok, I wonder start with this quote you write. It is one of the great paradoxes of the human condition We asked some variation of the question. How are you feeling over and over, which would you'd want to assume that we attach importance to it, and yet we never expect. Or desire or provide an honest answer here I know I didn't write a hack. You did right out The problem is that we don't want to spend time dealing with people's feelings. Sl, we want people to say fine, Kay good and we can move on. You now think about teachers think about pair Parents are getting up in the morning Forty got to be in the cart. Seven. Forty five, the kids gotta get on the bus, good morning honey. How are you feeling and what, if they hear, hopeless, disappointed, sat

I'm angry. I'm overwhelm the anxious. That means you ve got to stop what you're doing and provide unconditional ovens of war, and it sounds crazy but p than have the time for it to why bother asking, and I think that something really needs. A change in our nation in the world began to tell you that we you just went through that role play. I wish I could see my hands right now, there's my palms or sweating, because Do what I do for a living? Steve's, a pediatrician. So if we at seven thirty five said how you feeling sweetie and one of our kid said- oh whelmed, anxious, maybe it'll depressed- I will be like ah we talk about it on the way to school? I urgent and think about you, prevention, Imagine inter. I have not had an emotion, education teachers who have not in Social Marshall, learning to live in

nation to deal with. For we began to everything you have to teach us. Which is so much and so good. You tell me about Uncle Marvin tell me about. Can we talk a little bit about your own experiences with emotions and, of course, the big permission you got in your life so, as you know, from reading my work on the sexual abuse of the child and from when I was very young until I was in the fifth or sixth grade so from five years after ten years old and you can Imagine when there's an adult who basically threatens you, says if you share with happening you're gonna be hurt. If you tell your parents in other any repercussions when trap with your feelings, you feel shame you feel disgust you feel hate me he'll anger, anxiety and the list goes on and you have no. Go those feelings.

Now I was blessed in life that my mother's brother, who was Uncle Mormon, who happened to be a middle school teacher in the gas go mountains of New York State, was working on a book and occur. Go to deal with kids feelings and so when I disclose what was happening in, he was the only adults who was there for me here. He just listened He didn't say you know toughen up like my father did and he never breakdown You know, like my mom, didn't God bless my parents, they did everything they could. But they just had no reason, and they had no strategies to deal with their feelings, but Uncle Mormon just hand that, as I call he was the compassionate emotion scientists he was up curious, never judgmental great listener and did Tell me what to do, but rather he was my coach. You know he helped me to think through what the alternatives were, and he gave me hope I don't get. My entire career

First of all, thank you for sharing it, because so it's such a hard thing to share and talk about, and yet it is such a prevalent form of trauma and violence that we just don't talk about enough and not everyone has an uncle Marvin. I know, and I hear people Tell me that all the time you know they didn't have that adult in their life and one I know from research is about tooth of our nations, youth, don't feel they have the support of adult like in their school, think about that going. We'll everyday, not feeling like those in adults who cares about you always there for you do those same research participants. The same children also feel like they dont have any one at home either, There are lots of kids who feel the same way home as well for your right any. What's hopeful about the story to me when I was reading your book, I kept thinking, be the uncle Marvin. Kids yak, be some kids Uncle Marvin

be the person who, when you say how are you look genuinely into someone's eyes as if you really care The answer makes you wait for school, screw it be late. Cool. I couldn't agree more minutes. My dream is that you're gonna to make a world filled with uncommon yeah we that really do we really believe in right. Now we need more than ever. So I want to get this committee greeting. I think it's because I've been working on a project for last couple years around emotional literacy? And of course I read your book like I ate it, I took every page out and I ate it. It's just incredible and the data and the way you approach things with you. No equal part, scientific rigour and big juicy heart. Like you, just we don't see that a lot in our russian bribery cheaper, but we don't see it a lot if it took me a long time to figure out how to do it. You know and took me towards fifty that right mind, but further for the real world.

Were trained that if it's too accessible we're not that Smart Legal yeah, that's the training, academics, and so you have just taken this incredible science and made it not just digestible. It's like a page turner for people, I just loved. It varies. We thank you yeah, and so I have a question that I think is helpful. Can you talk about what is an emotion? What is a feeling sure? How do you think about those differently? aim so their related. You know- and I think for enough for most of us, it doesn't matter if it's an emotion or if it's a feeling ever the mood her. You know it's an experience that we want to connect with and understand, but the basic sense think about it in the morning you wake up and Europe appraising the world around you like from your own inner dialogue to you, know, what's happening around you, you think I'm gonna approach to avoid. I feel pleasant in. I don't feel so pleasant today.

Your checking with your binding you're saying I got a lotta energy right for your kind of depleted and tired or exhausted. And that's how that mood meter tool that is in my book was derived from research in that area, and so, like the feeling right, I feel like approaching, I feel like avoiding is this kind of. Or experience, but the emotion right is more granular. It's more specific anger. Is about injustice, disappointment is about unmet expectations. Anxiety is about uncertainty, The language of emotion is what I think we really need to get out and origin help ourselves and other people thrive.

I too share this with you because its, I think it's really interesting and everything that I find in my work mirror so completely what you find in your works of the last as its two thousand six, we ve been asking folks who go through our curriculum to write down the name of the emotions that they can recognise and south and name what bigger, recognise and other people a name, and so we have I don't know. Maybe fifteen thousand pieces survey spat the mean number that people can identify a name and self and others three well yeah, people have no training in, emotion, recognition. I have a home theory about that. The firstly was not part of the curriculum. How much time we spend in school learning about feelings and emotions and moods. You know when you analyze the curriculum from Matzoh language arts of science to

every learning in even with Social Marcia learning it still an add on. It's not integrate is not part of I hate that yes, that's my hope. My career goal is to make social marshalling a permanent peace from our children's education, and this is where the in my book I talk about TAT, the ruler skills, and that first, is that core experienced the right one firstly among the yellow, which is that high energy pleasant place, a green or blue or read which in the red is at high activated, unpleasant blue low energy unpleasant And then you see what was going on for me right now like with with the stuff. I am telling myself well I'm about to do a package with Bernay round on my anxious, for my excited apprehensive or my eager. I'm about to go, give a presentation. I just got bad news, so you're trying to figure out the story behind you know the experience and when I find that's really helpful to then find the word and helps you

Labour, the feeling that I mean all the majority of people we work with. No, he's from sea goes to prisoners in here people incorrectly visible. He's with all they know is happy sad pissed off. I call them. Sad glad trilogy. You asked self questions. Very nuanced questions. Just now. Exactly Am I before we get into ruler, which think is so brilliant. You talk about I've areas were feelings matter, the most make them haste to me. Why not that I need at pee us but make because I am so onboard, I am behind you paddling. I appreciate that make the case. Why understanding emotion matters?

well, that's dinner that Michael when I do my presentations, I call that slime my money slide, because for anybody who is a nay Sayer you're saying you just another research because once you understand that data and then the science behind this there's, no way that you want to take this seriously so verses and his manner for attention capacity. I mean, let's be you don't wanna, be honest with you? I was a sandy student in elementary school and you know with all modesty aside, you know I'm a pretty smart guy, but I couldn't function academically. I mean thing: but when you're feeling nervous and others bullied horrifically, I apparent who had troubles so I'm being abused. Do I really want to learn about the roman oligarchy? Am I really innovative focusing concentrate? I mean let's get real right. I just want free. Someone love. I want safety and when I get home without bullied and hurt, so

we know that our emotions system is inextricably linked with our cognitive system and our attention. The second is decision making. I mean think about it in a way we like to think were rational creatures. Here's an exam, in a study we? They were teachers, we randomly assign them to be in a good mood or about her. It's pretty easy, take five minutes and think about a good day. Take five minutes and think about it day and then we have them gray the exact same paper, lo and behold, one to four grades difference when we asked the teachers do believe that how you felt has any influence over the way you evaluate that essay and your presence had no so think about them. Their emotions clearly shifted the way they viewed the same country. But we would have known powerful, wouldn't want to believe, because we don't wanna, then these women- control. You know, let me there is no free. Will the third relationships

I like to say in the simple form, emotions are signals to approach or avoid so my fate, the expression, your facial expression, other people's, how we feel it. Inside sent messages approach. Avoid However, ever work with someone who is like that disgruntled character. Think about that person. You said yourself, gosh, I'd like to work with them for the rest of my life. No, you, like, I do other than this hallway I'll do anything to avoid them. The fourth has to do with our physical and mental health. Has it example in our work with educators. What we found is the following: the culture and climate, school was highly corn waited with their anxiety, their stress, their negative feelings which all was correlated with their mental health problems. With their sleep troubles and their body mass index, so think about that. This

How are emotion, system and our environment are all linked together and connected to our physical and mental health. There's no question, I mean guy vision, since to me you're islands as vicious cycle, because quarters insulin, levels, change. I want the fatty foods and one immediate gratification and then it just loops and looks and low. Good, I'm in shame for having eaten that gap scrape completely. I speak from just research not from personal experience, go me too, and then the final one we cooperate. Its and creativity. You know one thing that people often say is I can it your cognition, my students, for example, here at Yale, where I work often said in these things? When teach my classes, professor bracket, I didn't get emotional intelligence to get into Yale, that's it. We're gonna need it to get out and, His name is gonna hire someone right. What have the kind of attitude and, of course many must enter. Bill S, most of them are like

They didn't have an emotion education. You know they went to good schools in the garden, because there as it is causing a great point averages. But the truth is, when you go to the real world, CS I work where they say things like. We can't stand this. I really graduates there so entitle than there. You know that don't work teams and they just think they know every we want people who are flexible? People who you know are inspiring the skills that we never teach so I think that we need to rethink education to make sure that a are addressed these are taught emotion, science and be our kids get these skills from preschool until whenever I just it so. Microphone working. I just have no words because I,

spend so much time working with leaders of these fortune, one hundred companies and sixty percent of the work they have. To do? Is social emotional learning people are coming with skills, people can code, people can think about financial strategy, but people lose their shit and meetings. People dont know how to talk to one another. People avoid hard amber stations, because they don't know that awkward is ok to feel it's incredible, that what is it gonna take? Do you think to make this case. You know it's gonna take all the students were going through this training now to become the next generation of leaders, and I have faith that Adults can learn these skills and demonstrated that but the mindset of adults in this example. So I gave a talker and one of our big departments here

I will name it right now. At present, one of the senior professor stood up and he looked at many girls. What happened to you now I said I'm a bit of a self Salvatore says. I didn't tell me more about him. He goes a marked. This is Yale, we produce Nobel laureates, not nice. People I was like ok and then, who are you? I can facilitating group and I said: does anyone else have a different perspective? Lo and behold, another professor stands up and looks a meaningless here's. What I learned mark. Sometimes you just have to be a blank, because then the people who work for you just shut up, and do you tell him to do I looked at the chair of this whole school and civic. We can a movie here when you discuss Little is happening and I thought the cheering departments is gonna cry him. He was so embarrassing, electing niggers. What do you think I asked you to commit?

Though you know, we have a lot of work to do. You know to get paid ought to be on that emotions manner, bus and that's why do the science and that's why you do your work and you know I'm gonna keep going Will I get? It won't understand that data and the stand, that our cognitive abilities matter, but how we with life You know I always say things like so many. Children don't reach their full potential because I can deal with the feedback they get that can't deal. You know Disappointment frustration, the anxiety around the content set that their ability to be creative, it's that when they fail opinion greater than when they get harsh feedback, the candle with feelings around it and they give up not because of their ability because of their inability to deal with their feelings. He I have to say I was thinking about this impact for our conversation and I have never met a true each transformational leader in my career, and I've worked with a lotta leaders, just like you and all the

companies I've never met a truly transformational leader. That did not happen. Deep understanding of their own emotional landscape and emotional landscape of other people. I just never have I agree. We do this a couple of years ago with fifteen thousand people across the workforce and we asked them about their feelings in how they feel each day at work and we found not like the anxiety that we have today in the study, and earlier, but you know what fifty to sixty percent of it things were negative. You know on a daily basis, but here's with the magic ingredient was We also learned about the emotional intelligence of their supervisor or their leader. We found a fifty percent difference in inspiration that someone felt inspiration. Fifty percent more when they were in, an organisation with a leader with higher emotional intelligence, their frustration that was worth thirty, forty percent less their intention to leave the profession.

Where significant either burn out lower. So these are skills for us, but there are leaders have to have these skills because we also have an ethical behaviour. Was related to the emotions house of the supervisor meter. No question. Many variables are related to the person who in charge, having the skills to manage people and manage their own feelings. It self image because here you talk about your money side, and I think for me the moment where I get people's attention is when I talk about courageous leadership required the ability to attend to fears and feelings of the people Lead and serve and support, and just like your he'll experience, so many people jump up, YO arms tightly cross over there, ass and say I'm not a therapist on financial strategists continuity and fears and feelings, and Thirdly, I will say tell me your big struggle. Tell me your biggest time to suck dealing with problems behaviors, unlike right as you can either

spend a reasonable amount of time. Attending to fears are feelings or an unreal, no amount of time dealing with problematic, behaviors you're, not You couldn't even more I caught we need to be prevention is not interventionist oak. I love that. We are preventative and we help people develop the skills they need to navigate their lives, but I'll have to spend millions and millions of dollars think we are right now intervening a try me. That's just the science. That's right! Ok, let's talk about ruler, tell us what it is. Tell us how it about and let's walk through it together. So ruler is an outgrowth of the theory of emotional intelligence that was developed by me when tours however, who is now the presence of Yemen, Jack Mare? Who is it, So at the University of New Hampshire, and so, as I was working with them as both registered in a I was working with my uncle and this curriculum. Playing in the real world and I was playing in the scientific world and it was parsing at the different skills,

that the scientists have come up with him that my uncle had been working on an essentially became neither has ruler and so ruler is recognising emotions and oneself another so paying attention to the queues in my body, the queues in mind Fine, it's recognising emotions and other people so face body, voice, behaviour, Understanding of emotion has to do with knowing the causes and consequences of our feelings, going back to our example. Earlier I've given linen three thousand presentation, I ask people what the different disappointment and anger. Do you know that three people in the last ten years could really defined the different people say things like one is internal one External you, no one is a secondary, emotion like, but with the psychological difference in which his disappointment, unmet expectations, anger perceived, unjust, and the reason why that matters is because it help the label that feeling properly and then

in sign of my angrier, my enraged, my just of all our my annoyed They are the EU in the Alley, Willard, recognising understanding, enabling I call them the skills that help us create, meaning of experience. So I know I know what I'm feeling aren't you in the air or how someone else's feeling so copy less happy before you go. The either are stop. Rule. Ok are is recognise in the occurrence of an emotion by noticing a change in your own thoughts, energy or body or in someone else's face body or voice, correct, recognising tell me what you find. And as the greatest barrier to the are to recognising pausing to just be self reflective. Don't do that. I always ask people how many times today, if we hang upon with one

when you go into the next meeting, you take a breath and just checking with higher feeling promoting. Where were you talking to my guy? I want him for that. Yeah. So there's that peace in the self awareness. The problem with the other awareness is that we like to a tribute emotions to people, well, then I want to really no ceiling right. Renee. So angry, wiser, anxious. Why is there someone a minute I ever an anti us? Do that you're? What's wrong, I'm like you and I'm the only one. I like your projecting all your stuff automatic right, so we do a lot of that. We're not pause. Tinted observe The other big barriers are is that we have been trained to fake our feelings, you know we mass them Emotional labour. I was at a big companies York, city, giving a talking, then the sea or came up to me like interesting talk like things he does not for me, ok. Well, what do you mean you say? Well, maybe I'll have you train the people who work for me because in the bedroom

deal with me like this. Is I learned, but in my point, is it he just why no interest in recognising people's feelings? You hear that Corner Office, so we have the Wanna gather this information Another big error that we make is perceive behaviour for feeling suffer. Ample. I come home. I hate you screaming into my arms are from clenching my fist, how my feeling angry in another because that's my story, I would come home screaming yelling all the time and the real feeling Having with shame Can I go to my father? Was a tough guy from the Bronx daddy? You don't feeling shame I'm gonna Young, when a scream, I'm gonna tell him. I have you and I'm not going to school, so let it get punished because my parents in her Are you with me right happens all the time Ok, so I have a question

that are when you say people have to want to know more. Does curiosity play a role and been I find some people more curious about their emotions and other people's emotions. Do you find that to be true hundred percent in you know. That's why I talk about in my book. This idea of an emotion scientists versus the emotion judge, ready, Motion saying I wanted all both ok go ahead Well, you know want to be the judge about your feelings right, so that I will be the judge about your future one, you anything agenda, but I kind of like it. Sometimes it's terrible, while we are on. Will you know it's my action, some people say things one and the scientists. People I love the least ah What's up that hold urgent legislative automatic right like the earth. You have to one another, the information. So that's all that. A tumor peace that contributes to our skill development. Ok, so are

clear on what that is clear on the barriers you understanding kind of same barriers that same year, I tell them ever more cognitive, because that's where you have to learn the underlying seems around feelings so that, for example, we know that the anger family is IRAN, injustice, that the disappointment is around unmet expectations that jealousy right, is feeling that your threatened that someone you care about is gonna, be taken away from you or envy the budget wanting. Someone has once fear, is it impending danger. Joy is about achieving a goal. We understand these feelings. What happened? that's what I'm asking you to tell me what's going on Bernay I as the motion scientists and listening for these themes.

An injustice theme on hearing unmet expectations in my kid is yelling. They hate me because we can't go visit his friend, but I don't think he's really angry he's disappointed until I have to help regulate disappointment, not punished for anger and that understanding pieces. What access to label and then in the labeling. We want to get granular, we want to get really new ones in terms of how much fear a lot of here, a little fear. Because it's a use it to regulate a little fear than does a lot of here, and they you digging. Please round shaman fear there, asked some more socially culturally acceptable. Is it being that are based on gender class. Every just rupture monitoring of getting to the EU? The expression, ok

are you in the air is all about. Our experience in the EU in the are expressing in regulating motion is all about what we do with these feelings. So you had have permission to express you have to have someone who's gonna, listen to you, some who want to listen to you. And we know there are so many barriers to the right. There are interracial racial barriers. There are key full barriers, there's power dynamics, right people who have greater power can express whenever the heck they want people lesser power have morphine. IRAN expressing, I haven't even in our centre the centre from intelligence and I direct twenty cause. I tell everyone like listen then too for emotional intelligence. I really want to know how you're feeling, but because I'm the director people are afraid, for example, often so tell me, they're nervous about a project, their working on her anxious about the statistical analysis and it baffles me. But yet theirs is, like a mark, thinks Anxious, let me see also thinks I'm weak right away. And so we will

barriers to break in terms of people, We call this matter. Emotions right have feelings about feelings and personality, rang people, oven, think that I'm in a very extroverted, because I do a lot of public speaking about really not I much prefer to be quite alone in that leads the strategies right, so an interval might choose different strategies and extrovert in regulating their feet. Things you know in the emotion regulation, peace which is at the top of that ruler hierarchy is the problem of the most important skill right. That's how we handle our feelings. It's what we do with them to prevent this feeling to reduce it. Joint senior created. Do I wanted to maintain it, and we went on and the mood and then what strategies and there are so many strategies just briefly this last week last two weeks, after you. A lot of women are as on emotion, regulation, because people are suffering so it's. O Brien. This emotion regulation biscuits parliament itself care right. You get enough we buy you eating healthier,

Look in your body, yeah! That's like all the stuff! It contributes Why, then, are you regulate? Well, then, is there patients are peace as the cognitive strategies. Its endless really is quite interesting when you think about. How much there is to learn about dealing with your feelings. I've similar questions tell me the difference between you find yourself overwhelmed with it let's just say it's resentment you put resent: on a continuum with disappointment around expectations. Where do you see it normally? You know I think, cable. It goes towards the envy family rank as if it's I have to get away. Philanthropy from I sent her cell oftentimes envious of their homes and their lifestyle in a recent visit. Is I hate them for having it, and I don't ever feel that way. So it's like the negative side of envy right many ways. Ok, so I'm overwhelmed with resentment or any green, for anxiety whenever it is. What is the difference?

between self regulation and what we see a lot in the lexicon of the working world, which is personal management of self. We ve got a problem with burning. She really doesn't have the skills that too they manage herself when she's in really hard feelings. Do you think, there's a difference, different nomenclature? What Thank you. I think the field of emotion regulation as a huge right and people Holly coping his emotion, management, self control and co regulation in the summer. Terms in, I preferred to call an emotion regulation, because its we're doing is where here were regulating a feeling regularly does not mean not feeling in getting rid of the feeling like him in telling people as you, to around the anxiety their experiencing not feel anxious like there's a lot of uncertainty and unpredictability going on, but you don't have to watch the news.

Hours a day, a man being bombarded with crazy information, that's gonna, make it go nuts rights, you can be with the feeling and not let it killing her power over you, that's the ultimate form of accepting That feeling so well. About the past who says to you I do you have lines, but I regulate them and I dont feel them. One hour, guy snuff them down here. That's That's what we all learn, you know and the suppression of repression, the denial again it's easier, the whale I too think it It is an emotion regulation is effort, for you have to to regulate you. Gotta be motivated to regulate. You gotta see that it's gonna help you have greater well being that it can help you build better relationships. It's gonna help. You obtain your goals. But most of us, I taught to think that way. So we think that just suppressing a repressing we can move on and we all know that doesn't happen right. These emotions don't go away. The suppression. Doesn't go away me. They get buried in Europe.

Bellying area in your heart or near lower back right, so I would just fathers maladaptive her unhelpful strategies. I think it's hard for people and I read this somewhere in, I always say to people, emotions don't go away and felt emotions are not benign. They met size and you have this great thing. I can't find it in the book right now, but maybe you can help me since you wrote it sometimes. Ever when I write. Do you ever find you something I got a certain way. We could do it together. I would say, on processed emotions, don't dissipate they're, not benign, they metastasize. You say something like something about the debt is going to be called out. Day like yeah. Do you know what I'm talking down yeah? Can you tell me going back to the expression of feelings? I mean with my partner and my mother in law right now and in the wound.

Together in a like this. Ever in my whole life, I'm not spending more time with anyone who is the truth, teaching and running around, and so you know we're having strong feelings. You know what I'm getting feedback about. My cooking that I'm not asking for, like them. In the hallways, the we looked at each other, the somewhere, we dislike bright each other and anyhow. So my point here is think about. The people that were in relationship with and how many people have not been taught how to talk about their feelings of expressed their feelings of the people. They love the most potential. Yeah- and you realize that you don't really know the person you been living with for twenty years, because you're, not I want to be vulnerable, not willing to be your true self and share the feelings at your having, and that's just it pains me that we have gone through life with the inability to be our authentic cells with the people. We love

most. And so my question is: what do we need to do to create a society where that's part of the past yeah? It's the heartbreak and the driver for me with my wife is. Are we really what I think are the core human? needs to be seen and known and loved yeah- and you know if we don't understand the emotional landscape and our own, much less of the people that we are trying to see and know and love. We can't get there in so many people die without ever getting there. It's terrible and when you think about it in terms of their stuff that we do you know it's like vulnerable, means a number of things. I have to have the comfort and the skill to communicate to be away and really skill, communicating my experience, but I also have to know that I'm without Uncle Marvin yeah right, because if the income on the other side, it's not worth sharing There is a noteworthy Iceland resembling, so

there's. So many baron was a go into whether or not we talk about our feelings, because you know we're gonna be judged oftentimes by having them. We can't stop the podcast. Until we talk about something that I'm seeing a lot right now and you call it. I think Mehta emotion, like emotion, about emotion. That, right though I did this plan, cast were issues kind of me talking about some observations, since the covert pandemic began about much shame. People are feeling about their grief. How much shame people feeling about their disappointment? How she met shame people are feeling about their anxiety are those examples of matter emotion completely here, which is having feelings about your feelings. A member less than I am anxious to know that you are not skilled at their solemn whenever it is yes, so for me, coming from islands, I talk about

how comparative suffering is just a bankrupt idea, because empathy and compassion or not finite, and so we don't have to everyone's hurt matters how do we apply kind of your ruler concept to these stacked feelings that were experiencing right now, where we, we dont, think we have it as bad as other people. So we denying our feelings, this reminds me something similar, which is, I was in a school with children with a severe loss. Problems and emotional challenges and this boy came in his filming the day and he's come feeling fifteen feelings known as teacher was getting embarrassed, you know because she was like he's just trying to be. You know a showman and I said in a low voice. I will tell me tell me what happened he goes well, I knew when today and I woke up really excited, then it miss me I saw my mother yelled at me and that this happened in this.

It was so articulate about fifteen different feelings, and I looked over the teacher and just other than just as it is gonna tell me. To me it's all about taking their breath. Pausing in applying the ruler principles. Right is asking so why am I haven't feeling about my feeling? What's the cause of that, and it's really does that reflection on no, what is the story that I'm telling myself right now and you can go burn, think about where that might have come from right. One of them that drives me crazy is. Our negative self talk often comes from, the adults who are raising us right now that way, you know I'm too vanity I'm Teuton disruption of the two biggest here sure I'm too dark come to light you ve, really go into the your history start, realizing that, my goodness that was my mother, tell me when I was seven ten and become that person

Do you have any matter feelings and then you're gonna reflecting and get complex? That's why we have often times is taken. Back and paws sometimes right it out young and just try to figure. That theme like where is coming And then maybe we can live with a real feeling and then go to that regulation. So much of emotion, MRS I'm finding in the work doing right now. So much of emotion is biography. I mean you, I took your task in the book. Course. I say I self scored very high when you read the paragraph after that right, which, though I did the biggest item, Is how high we sell score exotic may also. I also read the part where evidence shows that men so

score higher there within, but when the rubber hits the road there as professors as this is so funny. I did this whole feminist, pedagogy approach for several years and where people I had the learning that we had to do for the semester that I let people write your own Scylla by an great themselves based on their loan learning objectives. I had my performed idea of what I think they're great should be at the end and it was who gender stratified, because you know I would say of man. She really she turned and eight may talk great in the class hate speak imperative that it happens in your head. Right too, I would say it is our graduate masters and Phd students. I've been, I gave myself be minus four, the semester. What have been the guys

Do you like a plus like what you, and so is? This strategy is not even have a change of strategy? I met away in here that any so when I read that about yourself scoring around gender lines, I thought I think employment. That is that you know it's not like. My other career has been the martial arts, so one his being bullied as a kid One really important thing that my father different ways dropping off karate school, happened to be with an amazing teacher second really hook in the martial arts, but you know it's in can I have made the comparison between martial arts and emotional intelligence so yell about five kicks five punches Bluebell Greenbelt Renda Black belt, like your given your given specific instruction in a given feedback in your test it to get through these votes, but where do we have that far emotion system? How do you get it? got an emotional intelligence so that I think, when I'm hoping to do

I love that the structure for schools to give our students their black belts, You know in social and martial learning, an emotional intelligence, and you, Oh, it's not has to happen in schools, because what I find I dont work with. I dont work with K through twice when I really and work with college tunes, I mostly work with people in the workforce are ready and it's not that their neutral. It's that you to enlarge on of shit before you can get your black bout it. Sadly, there, starting. It know about their starting with like their belts. Five hundred I away now, could you I can't total Has he been practicing me suppression? denial blaming for thirty forty fifty years you can just like snap it to the next one right. You got I'll back, learn about yeah, ok, so, as we set off tell me before

I've got a speed round of ten questions for her that we're gonna do last, but before we get to those you're someone listening, they ve got just like the kid in the classroom that the teacher was embarrassed about, but he proved to be applied an emotion, literacy, profit give fifteen. Hang swirling in your head right now, you ve this ruler tool. You ve, given us permission to feel the book and permission to feel What can you say to people right now who are now? but only maybe overwhelmed by their own efforts? their own emotion, but also in a house or at a job that they can't be. It can't be at home right now. What do you say to people as the first step? Back me up, one was tat before ruler. The first up is permission to deal

give yourself the permission to feel all these emotions. There's no bad emotion, there's no such thing as a bad feeling feeling their feelings. Emotions are emotions, allow yourself to experience and all permission to feel. That's it just If I can get everyone in the world that just give themselves in the people, they love in the people to me of so much the permission to experience all of their emotions. I think I've, I've made it. So I'm listening to this right now and I said: okay, I'm going to get this book, I'm going to practice ruler, I'm going to read more about this. What does permission to feel look like for myself and what does it look like for my partner, my child? When I get back from my walk? Listening to cast. It looks like those five things that money slide. It looks like you know, someone who can be present, can be a great learner. It looks like someone who is gonna make really sound decisions. It looks like someone who can build and maintain the best possible relationships. It looks like someone who is going to take care of themselves and of good mental and physical health, and it looks like someone who can in my world

she's in dreams. Can I really do believe that people who take these kill seriously can achieve their dreams. I have serious doubts about that. Yeah, I'm with you a hundred per cent and thank you it's just, and he also invaluable, and not only is your work and dial, I think, but Your commitment to getting the work out an accessible, meaningful way is just a it's hard, it really hard hit the hardest part, because fear is a railway. Then we have the tools to teach people, but like thanks the barriers to implementation. You know are the hardest heart breaking Through the barriers of peace, not wanting to talk about their feelings are ask other for how they feeling and listen and then strategies are right. You, for the speed round. I'm a little but alarm ready, ok, filling the blank.

For me. A camera ability vulnerability is a strength number two, all to do something brave. But your fears. Oh you're, a real fear about it. You can feel that fear in your throat. What's the very first thing, you do take a breath, something that people often get wrong about then am I going unsociable became, which is below pathetic, that I'm not, but I'd like to be a war, but now I get it that same ok last show that you watched, bend and loved this you're scaring, but I don't really. I television, except for reality, television, so I like the voice in American Idol, Lovett Favorite Movie. I always go back. I know why, but to the color purple it just as a movie that just always gets me and adjust

remind me of the world that we don't want in the world that we want to create. Ok, a concept that she'll never forget. Is a programme content about twenty five years ago, and I, Remember it because my cousins publicizing, she was working with a band and I wasn't it stage of looking over the audience and now on a with their engine. Waving to me like a backstage, and I was like when I got backstage accessing. Ok, favorite meal? I think my favorite meal. If I had a dream, come true, I be sitting in a village in ITALY and just or village and having a great attire meal with him bottle of wine and gosh with going on right now, I can't wait to have the opportunity to go back. What's on your nightstand right, a diffuser and probably find Books have been there for five years and I have wanted to read so glad about the only one. Ok,

a snapshot of an ordinary moment in your life. A single moment. That brings you joy, I'm a coffee, A fanatic so, I have an express a machine and my mama I join my morning- is my hand press and I watched the espresso coming? How can I make my cappuccino? It's like bliss last question. What are you deeply grateful for right now. One deeply grateful for two things. One is they thank you for giving me the permission to be my full feeling self today, and I am grateful You know that I have the opportunity in life to hopefully make a difference in other people's lives. Definitely making a difference in my life and I know a lot of people's lives. So thank you. So much talked remark bracket. The book is permission to feel

and you can go on the episode page Umbria Brown dot com to figure out how to follow. Mark fine mark find the book I chest cannot recommended enough and one of the things that I've been thinking about since reading it is. We might do just in in the House family Book Club with permission to feel Can we leave little club for you if you like, she's your budget kids? Now Now I've got a twenty year old, whose interests in studying, emotion and I've got a fourteen year old son who really care is about it, and I can see struggling for the vocabulary sometimes, and thank you for your help. Mass and walking us through. I think the centre of our bee which is our feelings and our motions grateful for. For real. Thank you. So much I appreciate your listening. If you want to find

more about mark. You can find him on twitter at Mark Bracket in a r c b. Are a sea k e t t? Instagram his ad mark dot bracket and Facebook doktor mark bracket. His website is Daddy Debbie, W Dot, Mark bracket, dot com, it's in a r c b. Are a sea k, e t, t dot com and you can also always gotta bernay brown dot com and we have a full episode page was shown, notes and everything you need for each of our shows you can find all of his information. You can also find out how to his new book, which I have, recommend practical tactical actionable my favorite kind of book permission to feel unlocking the power of emotions to help our kids ourselves and our society thrive. Have a great. We go.