« Up and Vanished

Case Evidence 03.06.17


Take a deeper look at the evidence as experts discuss new developments in the case. 

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Hey guys today will be discussing. Everything is happening right now. The tear Grinstead case, as we now know, on February, twenty third Reich and Alexander Duke one of terror instead, former students was arrest for her murder and since then is absolute media frenzy and has been an abundant of new information. Indifferent leaves the sword through, to mention all the rumours today, we going over what we know and just makes sense of everything. This is cases since.
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eighteen, ninety nine during the January sale only at asleep number store or sleep number dot com, slash cadence, again go check out asleep them restore her visit sleep number dot com. Slash cadence, our first guest today is Nancy, ACE since the last time we spoke about It has been arrested for terror. Grinstead murder be clearly some catching up to do. I want to know. First of all, what was your immediate reaction to all this last Thursday, I gotta tell you something I was taking off on flying. The country- and I had my hand all about my twins- I don't want to leave them, and I want to go out of town and want to be away from them, and I got a text.
There's an announcement and the chair Grinstead case I I thought well. They're probably can say this is what we ve done and we ve done. This went on that and then I got to thinking If that were the case, why would they but all the trouble to make an announcement that they had found anything that I realize something was foot and almost within minutes, the word was out. There was an arrest and I did not believe at first. I couldn't believe it was someone that had been under the radar that it is had never been mentioned, because he known Crimson procedure in criminal investigations. You start at the nucleus with the person you move out from we'll closest to two more distant and status. The clay normally someone that knows them well that El true here paying it was someone that knew her but not anyone necessarily close to her, and I was
give the example of a delivery boy you're, the male manner someone you know, but yet you don't know and that's what it was that's that's the president may Nancy the GPA. As far as Ryan Alexander DO, with the murder of Tear Grinstead or similar, has a population of around three thousand people. How did Ryan Duke. How did this guy slip through the cracks you know it's pretty amazing how somebody can keep a low profile and stay out of trouble and never be suspected. I mean when you a Monday morning. Quarterback you'd think they would have gone through every mail that had been in her class for say the last five six years right before was taken, but why would they what I mean, and how do you do that blanket dna boy I mean did I do really comparative for sure, except maybe someone that Latex Glove bet, Where do you go asked,
it was some one that was so seemingly mild, mannered in unobtrusive as Duke from everything I've gathered people, I've taught you who knew Ryan Alexander Duke he was a kid a guy. He was The guy, who wasn't very remarkable, didn't really have many characteristics, stood out- he was kind of guy who was behind the scenes in Canada, really under the radar in general, so Most people were shocked when they learn about his possible involvement here, very cool. A guide didn't seem very sophisticated or Like you would have skill set to do anything like this and keep a secret for twelve years, you now the system, I need a gotta says, Four is one she's, driven by hundreds of times, while making trips from her home and Hawkins Veil to Zella that it is hard to imagine. Investigators are coming through dirt and search for her sisters remains its unreal,
driven by it. He no problem wait thousands of times now over them. Twelve years she's. As if given the chance, she would like to ask Duke one question: why why terror? Why did you pick terror What do you make of Ryan Dukes charges are particularly the burglary charge in the charge of using his hands to murder terror because think he may have been unarmed and that he strangled her or hit her and we don't know that and are not going to know that unless there's a confession or testimony from an accomplice, or a witness that he's spoken too, because her body is going to be skeleton Ized, which means we'll see no evidence of hematoma such as a bruise if he had used a knife there may be a Nick in a boat, but that's highly unlikely. You want.
Evidence of asphyxiation, be it manual or look after you can't look there eyes to save the blood vessels of hemorrhage due to asphyxiation, so long story short, the I think they could do- is charge worth putting his hands on her if he is not for a blunt object, steal his hands, also to effect a kidnap and he had to Put his hands on also as far as the burglary that goes for any entrance into any structure with the into to commit a felony, be it a rape, a fast long robbery. Any felony inside the structure, So how is a moment all its burglary and faded and long story short, I think the reason they charged with burglary is too high. What we call a felony marder, because, with
a body or with a skeleton, ized body you get a c o day causing death. So how can you get martyr, a death, occurring in the commission of a felony? Very simply, if he burglarize the home, she ends up dead. Thus felony martyr, which gets life behind bars, Bab their set up you. So this week. The judge issued a gag order. In this case, can you tell me it will be about what a gag order is and how it might affect the anti pain, a gag order? Very simply, is that witness as in the case, lawyers in case the judge and the case. Everyone associated to the case may not speak publicly. So that is the key. Rejoice pool irish well versed in other gonna made the venue there's gonna, be a change, non paid out right now. There's not they want to keep a jury pool prestige. From anyone. Speaking about the case, how does it affect me a new
covering this case investigating this case, and why do you think they they pose this here? Doesn't it Gus at all, it only affects people that are connected to the case Nancy you ve been inside terrorists house before. Do you think that their was a struggle inside her home. I do hard over and over. There is no sign of a struggle, but the they a thing askew at her home is a sign of struggle, because Ryan was perfect. No fluster till I was out of place everything. What like a little dollhouse, I'm telling you she had it almost obsessively. Neat and tidy and very beautiful she was a very creative and artistic person. I can tell you that from being our home, so thing like a broken alarm clock bedside now on the floor, she went left. Outwitted driven are crazy, nor I especially the mud on a car. You know she would never drive that. Why I think was a Nissan three thousand out in there
red Clay and Georgia. Forget it tars were caked with it In the gps, charges against Ryan Alexander, Duke here. They did say that he used his hands to kill her how'd. You think they know this. Did he confess or our cooperating witness what what my startled and pain. I think that somewhere, along the way here, tall somebody what happened and he may a protracted as an accident because you know a lot of times killers do that they told the way they wish it had been, but obvious, but he's tell somebody, and also with your hands, can include a whole lot of scenarios if there is cooperating witness who in fact sent them this information or told them this. Would it be, like the GPA, to offer this person some sort of deal in cooperation are if they need to offer the tipster ideal or the person that really provide the information be the tipster or third party? I
Imagine they will offer them if they have to immunity, to get more information to solidify their case. Otherwise, here, if they dont NATO, use and prosecute him so this witness or someone who is involved in this came forward and gave him information. Would it possible if his story, changes or third turns out to be more people involved them to take the immunity away from him now? see granite. It's done now that immunity may be extended to testifying trial and then, if they buy, got it trial than the deal's off guard what happens from here, which we expect in the next coming weeks and months, and road and clear in this case gonna know more with each court hearing. I hope that does not close to the media. How This is going to be a long and drawn out process. There's a deal to let Duke
have a lighter sentence in exchange for the remains location other. It's dp case and that's gonna. Take a long time. You gotta get dp cos five defence attorneys, they Persecutor may bring in some money from the ages office to help out with the dp aspect, I take as its very technical, very tight gold trials, not like an ordinary, not that India ordinary. But it's not like your ordinary trial strategy. There's a whole nother technique to prosecuting it County Kay said you managed to bring it deeply expert on both sides. You know what's interesting is now that an arrest has been made of a guy. Tat, no one suspected Ryan Alexander, Duke thirty, two, He had graduated from Urban County High School, where terror taught history, three years before she went missing
he was there while she was there and of course, what guy wouldn't have a crush on our Grinstead beautiful on the outside. She was in many many beauty pageant. Beautiful on the end sign. In fact, people first noticed she was missing when she didn't show up at church Sunday morning and smart debate, she was planning to enter a phd. Programmer drain must become a school simple so who would have a crush on her. What guy, wouldn't right, I'm pretty seriously. If she we returned, does factions, but listen to what you're, a sister says: it's it's sad to me what her sister and eighty gotta says. She says: She has never stopped grieving. The arrest quote: ripped the sky, off worms that have never totally healed and its law It is totally infected now
and when she heard the name Ryanair, did she said I've ever heard of him. That's amazing to me that nobody ever since, I do, however, nobody even I mean who is named. Nobody knew of his name. He was totally off the writer. Well, thing ass? He never got entombing any trouble, which leads me to wonder what this was all about. Now reports it is not clear what the relationship was between Grinstead. Indeed, Legatee, that She did not have a relationship with him, I'm promising you that other than it may have been her student or attended the high school while she was teaching there, that's it I'm no doubt they did not have a dating relationship, really you there. I think that there is no sort of relationship like that. Outside of just a former student of hers. It makes you wonder, though, what was Ryan Duke doing at her house. That's Saturday night. How does he
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Audible dot com, slash up or text, you p two five hundred five hundred again, that's audible, dot com, slash you p, or tax up to five hundred five hundred since the arrest of Ryan Duke the mantra, retired rinsed as murder? There's been many rumours circling around about a possible accomplice, someone who mean helped Ryan cover up this heinous crime. Well as it turns out? the rumour mill isn't always wrong. But after my interview with Nancy this past Friday, the police arrested another former student of tears. A man named oh dukes, and no not kidding
His actual name is both dukes with nets. So we have Ryan Duke in both dukes. I could. This up of I tried on Friday March third vote, was arrested on three different charges. Then he helped concealed Tear Grinstead S, death, supposing over body out on a peak An orchard and Fitzgerald
rumours of the second arrests have been swarming around the small town for days. Bo dupes now faces allegations. He helped is high school buddy. Very terror. Grinstead remains back in two thousand five. Thirty two year old abode dupes has been arrested by the Manhattan Kind Sheriff's office. Now he has already bonded out that he is charged with three charges and read them off from these documents. Here turned himself into been he'll county authorities Friday morning, accused of helping high speed, Buddy Ryan, Duke High Tech, Grinstead spotting Authority, say Grinstead remains were concealed in this the conference at some point during the week after Grinstead disappeared in October. Two thousand five
Since the last episode, the judge this case has issued a gag order. This is meant to prevent witnesses and those directly involved in the crime from speaking to the public. This whole is gone from a cold missing persons case to a high. Who found murder case in a matter of days. To sort through all the different charges for both Ryan and Bow indicative. A picture of what we should expect. Next, I am with the help of a man named Philip Holloway a criminal lawyer and sport legal analysed to also have is Abby from those Scylla area. Philip Holloway Practice LAW and Marietta Georgia? Masses in Cobb cannot afford a prosecutor Before I was a prosecutor, Elsa lawyer in the military, Twenty, my military stand and being a prosecutor in the Metro Atlantic area, actually practice law intention, which is my home town. For I was an attorney I was in law enforcement. What's the police academy and nineteen, eighty nine and one of my early jobs was part time
as a police officer. The city will sell, grew up and have done so. I know the area, no blood people there than been involved in this podcast personally they're. All good team and I I mean to say anything that about anybody. Let's just say, I understand sort of the dynamic of the way things are. So after orgies different? They don't have cases like this down there, a lot. It's nothing. Happen in Atlanta too, You know several murders of any given weekend right and we get people to disappear, and indeed they dont generate the public interest that this did so there's a lot of people who had their reputations damage. If not ruined early on, in this case, maybe rightly so- maybe not rightly so, but nevertheless it is a lot of raw Emotion. There there's a lot of hurt feeling there there's a lot
of pent up frustration in the community, and so it's going to be a very delicate balancing act for the judicial system to take all those considerations into account. When resolving this case yeah, I can see that sure. Would you make of Rhine Dukes charges right? did charges really are all over the place from looking at the various war. From agrivaine salt burglary to conceal, The death into the murder charge Avenue looking at these now for a number of days trying to excessive how their work to try to figure out what we can glean would read between the lines and I have come to light- two conclusions: there there either purposely worded very poorly in order to keep the details from being known- or someone who was very well trained.
These wore- and I don't believe that he be was anything less than well trained, for example, and understood pull out the burglary warrant which have in front of me, Burglary in Georgia is when someone enters into. Say, a house with the intention in their own mind at the time they enter or if they remain. Without a forty inside a structure like a home with intention of committing a felony or theft, so worry should be complete. For example, the moment you in somebody's house, it doesn't mean you have to kick in the door You can come to my house by invitation. Ok, in the mind you into my house, if you intend to steal my silver, then you committed a burglar. You love invited you in burglary war does not mention that he entered or remained insider house with the intent of committing a crime simply mentions that he went in the house?
He did commit a crime. Is possible for the intent to form after he's already inside the whole so burglary warrants in burglary indictments, always mention what someone's intention was when they entered the structure, and this one is is completely missing. What's that, ample over reason that would be met and here I mean what's a good reason a good reason, would be disinformation. If you didn't want the public necessarily to know what exactly was going on, it could be a typo could be poor police train. If there's more to the story- and it was purposely omitted- why would they be in there? Why would they ever do that that's a very in question and one that I cant figure I've looked at all the warrants, for example, aggravated solved here, This was also unusual because it it simply says that he used his hands in an offensive manner. Well. That's not necessarily aggravated assault.
You can use your has an offensive manner. Bus laughing, so my aggravated saw, has to be massage combined with the present intention to rape, rob or kill or and saw the deadly weapon assault was an object which, when you defensively is capable of causing serious bodily injury or death. This war doesn't say how he used his hands, which are not ordinarily, an offensive weapon? Ok, like a hanger nor knife would be or a crowbar either so I just simply says he used his hands. Is a conclusive restatement its it doesn't provide any details. You typically will see a little bit more detailed and what we have here, especially We are talking about an odd that's not normally associated with being and of an offensive weapon in there nothing in these charges in saying they about sexual misconduct or anything like that. Basically just says this was burglary gone wrong,
or they may seem to suggest that that is a narrative is being pushed. I don't buy it not not for one minute the murder warrant itself tells me a lot too. It says that he killed her the commission, a burglary and that draws us back to the burglary war which alleged He commanded the offence of aggravating saw now Keep in mind. There is a version of aggravated saw, which is of assault with intent to rape. The aggregate assault charge doesn't accused that it just says he used his hands in an offensive manner, which is insufficient make out an aggravated salt sharp right, so it's kind of circular, it's very legalistic and kind of difficult, for me to explain to the lay person, but I assure you that the words themselves will have
be cleaned up Bobby Grand jury terms the indictment or if they reach some kind of a deal The language will be cleaned up to be legally sufficient if they bypass the grand jury and proceed in what we call an accusation, these once lower are just not worded properly at all. Even oh. There are details, there are clearly omitted or just lacking. There are some each other or priest, specific energy. It makes you wonder how they news for that information. Where did they get this bizarre observe using his hands and they know that well, if, if both dukes was not present boat it does not have any personal information about what happened. The only person who still alive though we know, all that would have personal information assuming he's guilty is Ryan. Alexander duke- and
This suggests to me that he told them what happened now, whether he told them the truth about what happened. We may never know He may have minimizes involvement to some degree. He may have simply said this was a burglary that went bad. She came home too soon because my face if you're gonna go to prison for murder- you might want to have history. Recall you as being a bad burglar as being a monster. So common criminals to minimize themselves, even though they may emit guilt to, crime or most of the crimes they omit. The nasty Four, oh absolutely it happens all the time. We see this in the criminal justice system in many contexts. People will admit to the bare minimum to have to admit to sometimes because they're embarrass their shame. They don't want to cause their family to look bad. They just don't worry history. Remember them in a certain way. Well with the theory that the police
talk to Ryan Duke- and he did admit some of these details- why why? come forward now why, after twelve Here's. What you feel pressure too. To say all these, these details that he's been keeping a secret for so long, he would be the only one that would know that I, at a loss for why someone this Many years later would simply unburden themselves unless they were just somehow overcome. With guilt, maybe I feel like this is so this man eating at them for a long time and then, as they are The truth shall set you free, but I don't think said anything. They told the entire truth right So, let's take a second to talk about both dukes there Friday? He was arrested on several different charges in connection with tears. Murder. What can you tell me not this week. These warrants charging both deeds with various.
Fences all having to do with essentially concealing the death and hiding the body and helping dispose of the body. The various saving they say that this all happened in another county which in Georgia is actually and in this case another judicial circuit. So they're, not technically co defendants without getting too much in the legal weeds? These warrants tell me that if these accurate Nations are true that bow did not have any prior involved, with this until everything moved over into been he'll Kelly, and then the incident it pecan orchard. So It definitely alleges that he participated in destroying any judge that that may be or fossil remains they found any US. Ass would suggest to you that the warrants imply that they have found remains the critics.
About that right? What's the matter, indifference is now with it being different counties is their upside or downside. Is that if you are to defend it, if you were both dukes, well. What it means is that, in terms of the prosecution of both of these cases, there's gonna have to be some coordination between two different district attorney's, the dish turning for been Hill Kelly in that Turkey was present at the news conference when they announced the array Ryan. Do so We know that there are some coordination between them. Determines which is not uncommon, but crimes have to prosecuted in the county where they occurred and they are not alleging that both did anything at all over an hour when carrying Georgia does not have any accessory after the fact version of murder the best They can do is come up with these charges that all how to do with concealing the death hindering the apprehension of a criminal and things like that, but do
You can tell from these wars he's charged with hindering apprehension of a criminal he's charge with tampering with evidence, charged with concealing a death concealing it that in itself is one to ten felony, so he could. Theoretically facing quite a bit of jail time, but- because these warrants were not signed by judge until the day before his arrest and since the war appear to have set a five thousand dollar Bonn on each charge. The day before his arrest, signed by a superior court judge, That means that he's cooperating he's already cut a deal and probably has no concern whatsoever about going to prison, at least not for any significant peered down. So if Deuce customs or a deal with law enforcement. Why They bring the charges on I speak for the day. Two tourney involved in this case a kiss,
for the GDR, but I believe that my own personal opinion is that the poor like just won't stand for someone not be arrested if they were involved in appears to have happened out there and that peace can or should? It appears to be very gruesome, very horrible, and this is something that you knew about you held onto for over. Decade when you knew the community, was hurting it would make much political says not at least have an arrest and looking back, get the Ryan Duke WAR and they allege that his criminal acts we began with the murder on the twenty third that being a Sunday, of course, that's a twenty four hour period. So he has midnight on Saturday night past midnight until the next midnight during the time when you ve got me or phone calls from bull outlawed fortune, authors and then, of course, the business car being left owner in inner door during that twenty four peer time. That being
the twenty third Sunday now they wars against both dukes say that there was this period, October. Twenty third October, twenty Eightth, which suggest that it may have taken some time, probably he's a handful of not three or four days for them to completely finish their work, Pekin Orchard and it also suggests that- and I think It's not at all far fetched to believe that if Ryan, acted alone in the murder that there then some temporary placement. Her body until he could get some help and go back in spoke of it anymore, way. Putting all this together? That's what the picture is is that our seas being payment so right, and dukes charges he's the man who has been accused of tears martyr. His charges allege. That he killed terror on the twenty third, which would mean after midnight on Saturday night, terror left them
if you would only a few minutes from her home right at eleven o clock at night, she hour of where I guess Ryan do wasn't there it's a scam. If using to me that if Ryan was gonna burglarize her home- she wasn't a tiny house, you would only see her in there and you know would not be here a good place to rob that's what you're trying to do only less in fact terribly have gone home after the barbecue and then left again it may became. Really late in that's why he know I thought no was coming home that night. Well, I'm not buying the burglary gone bad start with, and if didn't happen until the twenty third. Then she had to go somewhere and be somewhere, probably with somebody, after the body he, but before she was murdered. So that's the big question that investigators and maybe the public to figure out. You know what
what happened during that time period Then the next question is how exactly do this murder go down at her home, the warrants against Ryan clearly say in concealing the death, but he removed the deceased body of terror, instead on the twenty third it doesn't say what time on the twenty Third doesn't say what time on the twenty. Third, he burglarized the home committed aggravated saw it could be that he killed her left her. There went back during the same twenty four hour period and then removed her, but it clearly says He removed her body on the twenty third, which was Sunday while from this point forward. What should we expect the court of LAW for Ryan, Duke in both dukes. I'm going go out on a limb and I'm going to predict that deals already been cut with regard to both of them, because
Irwin County cannot afford a high profile murder trial. The radically. This could qualify for the death penalty based on your statutory aggravating factors, but this is very We'll county was not a lot of disposable income in their budget. This will a trial that would be very high profile, very sensational, who have to be move outside of our would carry there's no way. Find a jury there? The has heard lots about this case. I'm from those parts- and I can tell you- is an echo chamber and The rumour male goes. Bananas They're not gonna, found a jury there, If he is the carrot and stick approach, I guess you threaten Ryan, do with life without role or present. I thoroughly- and in exchange for a plea of guilty. He could get life with the possibility of parole, That is really the only deal it makes any sense. Just they wouldn't kill him right.
It is the present he's got some eligibility for parole right. He may have health problems. Who knows what might call somebody to just go ahead and then cut a deal. From his demeanor and cork, when we saw him his first appearance. He certainly look like some one who did not have a lot of hope. His future? That's very true What kind of deal we talk him out for dukes here, but probably gets probation, maybe a little jail time. If anybody, if this is a situation where they would not have solved but for his coming forward, I could see that if our representing him am I not be willing to cooperate at all, as we had either immunity, or at least Prison was off the table, so I seems mine blowing to me that a guy who allegedly helped destroy terrorist body and conceal this awful heinous crime and then keep
secret for almost twelve years. Get off Scot free by saying hey one day I woke up and said I'll just tell the Gbi what happened today. That doesn't happen. A lot where someone just says: hey, I'm going to go ahead and come forward after all this time in and saw the biggest mystery that you ve had in the criminal justice system and are we can live forever so It makes sense. Make sense is that he had some. If something happened that inspired him too probably go see Council, which is what would be a problem any time you think he might be illegal troubles go see, council good lawyers lotta good deals, and if you ve got some information, if is really really valuable, you know that That is the currency of the true using to pay for a better future if you will and so that like what happened here. We keep hearing the word deal like BO cutting a deal in rhyme. Maybe getting a deal can thing revoke. These deals can vote
do any thing right now that could prevent them. From honouring whatever deal they may be giving him now. It's really I mean you would have to be something that one side or the other lately reneged on something or if it turns out that port which, if you go to the magistrate core you're gonna, be seen by people in the hallway you're gonna, be seen by people at the front counter. If you go to a judge's hollow ass, a deal to fall apart, but My guess is that this is an educated guess, this thing was iron out very. Meticulously? This by the very and law enforcement and prosecutors before These wars were signed just the day before both rest, Remember there was some period of time between the two and the gps reference, some additional investigative acts in interviews that they had to conduct to corroborate things. Probably so there what they would have had to that his information before they agreed anyhow, the deal
one thing that was kind of interesting produce was arrested on Friday, this past Friday, and that morning, his most shot he's wearing what looks like this sort of pinkish red polo shirt. It could have been something it gave him inside to wear but moments later, whenever he walks outside and he's bonded out he's working with his attorney He has a suit on so presumably knew where he was going that morning. No, yes, they eat. The warrants were signed on this on the second he, cooperated up until that point by telling the gps where to go look, you want to go, look for ended and basically you know they. Debrief him on everything that he knew about this case. Probably everything that Ryan may have told him over the years about it so these things were all happening. Price or to the judge, issuing the warrant, the GB, I could have
This arrest warrant earlier than March the second, but they waited until March the second and they also went to a superior court judge rather than going to the magistrate court which you go to the magistrate core you're gonna, be seen by people in the hallway you're gonna, be seen by people at the front counter. If you go to a judge's is parliament, it nine ten o clock, allow o clock at night to get away one sign there you don't have a lot of third parties in a lot of other eyes, seeing what you're up to so. This was all very carefully orchestrated, so the next caring for Ryan Duke believes in April. What happens? I don't think it's was to assume that the It's gonna be anything happens in April when the judge, not saying anything negative about the judgment is worth noting that magic, judges outside of the metropolitan Atlanta area dont have to be attorneys, so they not necessarily know everything I know about the criminal justice process, the dust
attorneys not obligated to send this case to the grand jury at any particular point in time, They will have to wait and they should wait until they get the Entire investigative I'll put together as suspected there's gonna be If there is not one already that there will be a deal cut, the may not ever be a grand jury presentation. They could wave is right to a grand jury and they could find common accusation and go to court monopoly I don't believe there is a court date in April and in what the judge reference was a grand jury, meeting, grand juries are done in secret. The defendant is not there. The defence lawyers that there is just a group of people roughly twenty twenty two people that he. From the case investigator in in the day, and then they will return a bill of Dinah if he decides that he's going to contain these charges and
greatest something. It may very well require a grand jury indictment in the future. But there's no reason to believe and asked, I think, is very unlikely that this case would be heard by the grand jury in April. That's just waiting quickly and it doesn't make sense what can you tell me about this gag order that some place gag orders are used when there high profile cases, cases where the defence may believe that their right to a fair trial would be. Undermine by pretrial publicity and so they will go to a judge and ass. I looked. We want you to order the police and prosecutors, and everybody not talk about the case out of court make sure we protect our right to a fair trial. Again I don't believe, there's ever gonna be a trial. In this case, I think they would bankrupt the county. I think that the stakes are too high. I think Ryan Duke has told some version of the truth is sufficient to get him convicted anyway
so I don't think a gag were really be necessary. I mean if the court system was anticipating no trial, then why would there be a gag were in place? Well face it says that the fifth asked for it. I can see while a defence my asked for it at least up front, because in the initial stages of representing a client, the defence counsel doesn't really know exactly what's gonna happen, or- because should not have an abundance of caution, but here's the thing Any law enforcement agency could have issued a direct ordered to all of its employees. Do not discuss the case and they were down by that order as a matter of internal policy and if you violated direct, worry to lose your job potentially be prosecuted. If you impede. The investigation is some way, but this gag Warner goes on to say potential witnesses, I think and who knows who world is gonna, be a witness in this case, when, when you had so many people,
civilians along for for joining out joining the search. Phasing out and going all around the county participating in a search for her people for the last. Ten or twelve years. Who may have had conversations with ryan- did both dukes any the other people that were involved in in tears, life, They ve had conversations about this and who knows who's, gonna, wanna, being a witness, and so the gag war was very, very broad and- and I think was probably unconstitutionally broad. Yeah seems little extreme in this in this case. So is it passed over the gag were to be removed and any sort of way the gang order is currently being fall, is being hours by media organisations you know there's another. The first member right of the press to ask questions. Theirs first, a member right to free speech People have a right to talk about.
Things even controversial things and so gag orders always run into constitutional first. Amendment type, proud, where'd. You get that. On the one hand, the defendant has a right to a fair trial. By the same token, the press and the public have a right to talk about it. So that's the balancing act that you have in with this particular gag order, which is very, very broad of what you can tell what the guy order. What can I not? Do now does it affects me in this park ass at all think you're. A witness, in the case, I think, you're a person who simply asking questions right and so you're you're journalists, your citizen journalist, do not have to work, for a major newspaper or Fox news to be considered as a journalist and two got last questions and talk about what we're doing here today is protected by the first amendment were entitled to about these things were entitled offer. Opinions were looking,
public documents and discussing what they may mean? So absolutely this gang order cannot cover what we're doing today. Gotcha what's good news, and so what sweets expect. Next to you, how slow, as this can be, submitted a dragged out process what's next year I mean what are we looking at now? I think looking at a prolonged period of silence, maybe for a few months and then will hear something about somebody having a court date hastily scheduled and these matters being resolved. That's just my hunch. Ryan do decides. He wants a trial and he's gonna interplay of not guilty. Well buddy better fastened their seat belt, because this is the only one hell of IRAN as very true. If Ryan Duke does plead not guilty even if both has some sort of deal in place, but they can have make him testify against him. That is its deal. His deal is that you're gonna go operate and you're gonna testify and you're, not
we're not gonna, resolve your case in any manner. Unless you, until you comply with your obligations under the agreement, which primarily he's gonna, be the test, fires draw boat, looks I'm comfortable and predicting nodding one point. Nine percent in all he has already told everything that he knows about this case, which is probably quite a bit, and so they ve got a record of it is probably in writing. It's been is recorded. It's been taken down, maybe even taken down under oath with a court or for he's already given statements and those statements would be used in any trial. If Ryan Duke decides that he was to have a trial right, then that's the leverage against due to give him in the Senate Gladden plead guilty What does the egg say? Hey if you don't, then you know what we'll just go ahead and do away
to do, and we will try your case even if we have to go up to be a county earth. I can't hear any place like that to have your trial, but we'll do it and we're gonna look for life without role or we could conceivably seek the death penalty Ray one thing said earlier about of Ceylon County area. Is that it? sort of the rumour mill and obviously a bunch of rumours fly around that place and especially when something this high profile is happening in this town One of these I've been here and go round. Is this story about the police, knowing about this at some point, either they went to check it out and didn't see anything but The topic on which your story was told to people ten years ago, if that turns, to be true, which we may or may not ever find out anyways That change anything is that big issue is that, just you know a screw up.
It could very well be a very big issue if this was information that would just out there in the room I that never landed in the lapse of law enforcement. Well, then, This is the way it is, but if it's something that was known to law enforcement and they didn't properly investigated. It could at least be it would at least be very embarrassing, and if it turns out that that Ryan Duke was in fact on their radar screen or if it turns out tat, he was even questioned and They said later at this press conference, that he wasn't on the radar that he walked in question than they ve got some explaining to do. That means. Ah at a minimum, they interviewed him and forgot about that not enough, but if they, if they interviewed and then lot about it than the GPS has a lot of explaining to do.
Accusing body of lie- I don't I don't know who they don't know who they talk to or what was said acted conceive of this situation where right Duke was one of the people that they talk to, but the first time around he didn't have a whole. To offer, and they felt that there was no reason to suspect him, and they just moved on to somebody else, and his name is somewhere buried in the reams of of paperwork. Possibility, but if they. Drop the ball somewhere or if they knew. The piano orchard and didn't follow up on it or if it turns out Did they misled the public at the press conference? Ryan do in fact may have been, for example, an early and a case than they ve got a problem and a minimum its public relations problem, but I've got a problem. This fear is that will never know exactly what happened to terror mob. This fear, is that
Ryan, who said just enough to right, these arrest warrants and that he may very well die in prison or otherwise go to his grey without telling anybody what exactly happened yet make someone say everything a scratch, in an ordered him to let's say does in our plea. Always gotta basically do is tell the judge. There's enough facts in the case. There could justify a jury finding him guilty and therefore its in his best interests to take a play deal. He doesn't have to go and answer free question in court about what happened in order to get a plea through. So if he does plead guilty is required to say what happened to me. I say he can omit details, but yesterday was pleading It also has to be satisfied that there is a factual basis for him to be Pleading give easier required to tell the story is not required to tell all the details. The judges has to be satisfied that there's a factual basis. He could also in or another kind of a plea it so
I can no contest plea. We call them Alford plea in Georgia in felony cases its basically, if you, I want to take advantage of a plea deal and you to avoid the risk of a trial, you have arrived to have sentence imposed upon you. If you believe it's in your best interests, even though you don't have to necessarily admit you're actually guilty, ok well and here's. What I'm afraid I have is that even when people plead guilty. It's possible. Although easy work is possible AIDS into the future. For somebody to come back and challenge there, there plea by saying it wasn't voluntary, so the state. Could simply sit on this evidence, saying until the appeals, or over the possibility of an appeal as a we're, gonna, go and classified, as is an open investigation and you're not going to get our records records law that will be terrible
would be the worst case scenario. Georgia has an avenue and that for twelve years, George or well, I can see the last twelve years too for the most part, because until they knew what happened to her. It was at least within the realm of possibility that she just picked up and, let's start a new life somewhere so it was an active investigation. I can buy that, but once these criminal cases are completed They really ought to go ahead and release. Everything that needs to be released Sunday, Open records law and They don't sit back on this. It's an open investigation. Use, I hope they let the public know. Ass is especially for the family. The family needs family desires, they deserved no Georgia needs better open records law. I agree if the state he's gonna sit back in and say well, there's still an open investigation, maybe some other people involved wish to look into that and they they could just max. I thought come home for sure
for those guys. Don't forget episode, fourteen comes out next Monday March Thirteenth and you don't want to miss it. All I can say is this thing It's much much deeper and elsewhere, my special thanks to resonate recordings, branding and mixing. Today's episode is pessimism, Pike S, editing and production if you're looking to improve the quality of Europe like asked or sort of like us of your own check them, originally recordings not calmed these guys. Nazi Monday.
Transcript generated on 2020-01-12.