Why have so many fans of the Grateful Dead gone missing or been murdered? Is there a connection to one of the most iconic rock bands of all time? And also, just who the hell were the Grateful Dead? Enjoy "Secret Memory," the first episode of Dead and Gone, a new series by Payne Lindsey and Jake Brennan.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Hey guys it's pain. I have a new investigative pike ass, its outright now called dead and gone. It's about two grateful dead fans that were brutally murdered in the eightys and the wrongful conviction of a black man who is accused of the murders. The suspect is still out there not to give too much away. I find some real answers in this case.
check out episode, one of dead and gone right here and if you like, it subscribed dead and gone in your Pakistan and bends the rest of the series thanks guys and hope you enjoy it
well, I'm having trouble finding it right now. This host is throwing me off I not very long ago- and that knows here
Caesar Chavez, pork on San Francisco Bay,
Is a small memorial plaque buried in the grass
out of sight and apparently forgotten the loving memory of ferry, Regina Joya, twelve, two thousand and sixty two a sixteen eighty, five and Gregory Allen. Hippin there were newspaper articles about the killings. What I read is that it happened around here, someone allegedly the guy that they arrested, killed him. It was a long time it says a secret memory. Thirty, five years ago, near
joy in Gregg Nathan were murdered here,
A man named Ralph Thomas, was convicted and sentenced to death.
So why am I here? Well, it all started with this guy.
somebody had to do it, somebody's going to invent Selwyn somebody's going to invent the microwave
way somebody would have been the first ivory it happened to be may kiss right now is that my name is pain. Linsey have they got here. This is too
Matthews the bank. He lives in a small town in Northern Tennessee he's a funny guy with
distinct southern accent, but there is also something very unique about time. He considers himself the world's first cyber sleuth. My route to this world was very strange.
in October of nineteen. Eighty seven three new girls want internal
term at school, and I was sent by my best friend and the one in the middle appointed at her ass a day.
The girl I'm going to marry
literally she sat down beside me. We were telling go stories because it was hallowing. She tell me
about a body that are bothered founded, not in sixty eight
She was a Jane, DOE and Scott.
And it Kentucky
The Jane DOE was known as the tick girl because she was wrapped in a canvas tent rapper
had just turned eighteen and by the time she turned seventeen, but within nine months we were married. I didn't go to college
I planned, I didn't really know what I wanted to do
going to work on that giant? Ok, just sent
tanker seem so familiar. I felt like on you
case, there was no
Also, you couldn't google certain kinds,
driving to Georgetown Lexington Kentucky get newspaper articles talking to people that might have known something about it and I build a website for
everything that I knew just clips photographs every night now thought all put
out there, and then somebody will come to me and
that was my mom sister and something I was looking for, somebody that had hadn't mother sister or anything
and a ninety ninety seven. I found somebody.
A decades long mystery grip
small Georgetown community Illumine found dead and wrapped in a tent of U S. Twenty five in nineteen sixty eight. She was known as tenth tat girl until the late nineteen. Ninety S, when her true identity was discovered,
I found a woman that was looking for a sister last night,
to be alive and lights into can take uniting sixty seven. I knew it was her. I remember the words of the Medical examiners office
Tat girl is indeed Barbara, Tyler,
that's when I started getting the phone calls, it made a name for himself having solve the decades old murder case by using the internet
at the time, this concept was unheard of, and it got the attention of law enforcement.
The seas around the world there.
wanted him to help solve their cases
That's when taught had a revolutionary idea
internet must be good more than just looking commercials.
Gotta to be usable is a way to communicate with people
of Justice in two thousand seven wanting to create a nameless program: the national database, the national system for missing an unattainable persons and, like that Todd's careers, a full time. Sleuth took off
Matthews has seen thousands of missing persons cases he's the spokesperson for name is the national missing an unidentified person system? It's a government organization that aims to streamline missing persons. Cases for investigators, since two girl taught Matthews has had his hands and
I cases name is alone as help solve over twelve thousand missing persons cases,
whatever it is. Todd definitely has something, a good intuition, an eye for things who knows, but the impact he's had on unsolved cases is very real. Over the years, todds learned the importance of collecting data in order to solve these crimes, tracking trends and recognising patterns, and recently Todd's, taken notice of a new pattern of cases, which is why I'm here
Therefore, if there is just one one case when he might even think about it
I'm not sure if anybody would really say to never to be featured in a magazine. You know when you start clustering
together little bit it's easier to see
he's established a set of unsolved cases. All with one thing. In common, the ban, the grateful dead
grateful they and could you come up with a better name, the grateful dead cases? Maybe they were going to a concert at a ticket stub in Debonnair Pocket had a concert.
it was a commonality that some
that you can grab held him
that commonality it got your attention in it. That's the idea
There is an event that brought people together. Those concerts brought people together.
Certain place and certain time,
Emma conspiracy theory, and that something
Mysteriously had no, but they.
there's, not a serial killer, most likely
It's done something to all of these people. We know the grateful they themselves had nothing to do with the US
and then made them- have some connection each other, whether they were even created or not, and that something anything that you can take to re composed the day composed grateful that than that source, not some big conspiracy and is probably not a serial killer.
Lucy doesn't think so, but would Todd's found in his lifetime as a cyber sleuth is the importance of a commonality, even if only to get your attention
anybody lookin for anything due to the great blaze gonna run into those cases
that might be the exact people that need to see those cases. The conversation,
not heard anything Fowler gonna
the concept bigger easier to see an unforgettable, almost every
This is just bizarre nature, strange circumstances, Bridget Lee Pendell was last seen on January 12th, one thousand nine hundred and ninety six in Wichita Kansas. She was twenty three years old and falling the grateful dead on tour when she vanish
Douglas Simmons, was last seen at a grateful dead concert on July tenth nineteen. Ninety
Roy North Carolina Mitchell, Fred, wiser,
girlfriend Bonita Bigwood, went missing on July, twenty seventh nineteen, seventy three hitchhiking for grateful dead concert
Jennifer Wilmer. A grateful dead follower was last seen in California on September, thirteen th nineteen. Ninety three ol hitchhiking Jeremy TED Alex followed the grateful dead for years and he vanished on April. Twenty four th, two thousand and four from North Port man
on July, twenty one, nineteen, ninety, ninety five, a mammoth stones
the highway of a grateful dead concert in Atlanta. To this day,
His identity is unknown on March twenty.
two thousand eight of fishermen
covered. A woman's remains underneath the box bring in Sacramento California. She was wearing a grateful that jacket
Her cause of death and identity remain unknown. On October, twenty six nineteen. Ninety one
a woman, was found murdered in the woods of Warren County New Jersey. The only clue as to her identity was a large tattoo of a tiger on her left leg later it was discovered that the
I too was the same tiger design on Jerry, Garcia, Guitar,
Identity remains unknown,
the majority of these cases have been unsolved now for decades. Todd's hope is that by clustering, these cases together, he can bring more awareness to them. The last case on Todd's list is perhaps the most well known of them all is coined the nickname. Grateful though
On June 26th, one thousand nine hundred and ninety five in Virginia, the police came upon a car wreck. It was a Volkswagen Vanagon, with two young males inside both dead from the crash
The driver of the van was named Michael Hager. They knew this because they found his idea in his pocket, but the passenger was a mystery.
his face embody were so badly damaged in the wreck. He was unrecognizable.
had no idea of either. I spoke to Billy Jensen, a fellow podcast, her and undoubtedly an expert in cases like this one. They did toxicology reports on both of em, both were negative, so there was no drugs and alcohol in either their systems. They figured there.
Hager fell asleep at the wheel, driving down a highway. You fall asleep at the wheel
not wearing seatbelts. It's gonna do a lot of damage to your body. His face was incredibly mangled
they could not release any pictures of him. You you wouldn't be able to identify anyway,
nobody knew who this guy was. What did he have in his pocket? A couple quarters a big lighter and he had to grateful dead tickets. The tickets were dated June, twenty fourth, in June,
fifth, two back to back grateful dead, shows played at Robert F Kennedy Memorial Stadium. Please determine early on the the driver. Michael Hager was not friends with the passenger, so they desperately needed something else to go on. Maybe these tickets themselves could help lead to an answer. You know we're talking about ninety ninety five. You could still kind of trace who bought the tickets, but it turns out that he had scout the tickets. He had been
purpose scalper, so you can trace it to that. There was also a letter that was found in his pocket. The letter was addressed to Jason. It read sorry, we had to go see you around call me in a phone number signed, Caroline T and Caroline O on the very bottom, was a sketch of Jerry Garcia to grateful dead ticket
a yellow pick lighter and this letter this is all the police had to go on and fortune
the phone number eleven. The note was also a dead end, but they now knew his first name was Jason. This kid was young, either a teenager or a young adult,
he had long brown, curly hair. He had a red tied, I'd, grateful dead, t shirt and he had a tattoo of a star on his upper left arm. They
His finger prints. They are able to pull his fingerprints prints, put him through database. They got nothing, you have this note. You have the grateful dead tickets. There's a lot of clues. There's a lot of strings to get you out of this maize as the years passed by interests. In this case. Slowly grew especially within the grateful deck community. Two thousand twelve, the National Centre for missing and exploited children created a facial reconstruction of what Jason might have looked like the rigour should they did was almost a photo realistic reconstruction of him. It's pretty amazing what they do. So we had a pretty decent picture of what this kid.
it look like people were very interested in this case. The DOE network had it on their site, name is had it on their site and there are a lot of citizen detectives that wanted to find out who this person was the citizen detectives that were
really working on this case. They gave him a name. We had the tickets, he had the t shirt they named him. Grateful doubt this is one of those biggest cases that you would like to be able to see saw in toothache
Thousand and fifteen a group of friends began posting online that they wanted to know what happened to their old roommate named Jason. They hadn't seen Jason and decades, and they couldn't remember his last name either, but they did have a picture of them, so they posted a photo
Jason and ask the internet. If anyone knows where he might be, citizen detectives see that picture and they say heart grateful dead
and he's wearing clothing. That looks very similar to the clothing in the reconstructed image and he looks really similar. They identify the kid in the image as being Jason, Patrick Callaghan,
and it turns out Jason Callaghan had left home in June of night.
Ninety five to follow the grateful dead he was
white male he had curly,
Your wavy blonde hair yeah brown eyes. He was five ten. They do a dna test at it matches a young man was killed in a car crash inquiry, Emporia Virginia in June of nineteen nineteen
five, the only clues to his identity or a grateful tat. He sure he was wearing two tickets to a grateful that cancer- and I know he came to be called grateful, though,
internet sleuth shared his information, trying
learn his identity now
see three year old, Myrtle Beach woman says the Jason and the photos on Facebook is her. Son. Jason
This case was,
successfully solved by combination of web slose, media outlets, reconstructed, facial image and grateful dead fans. The grateful dead.
community is so well set up for doing crowd solving. They were doing this before the internet.
There was this community and there was detective work being done and not to mention
fact that everybody sort of new everybody, even if it was just nicknames. I can't think of a better fan base to do this. Then the grateful that community, to be honest with you, any mystery that comes out of the grateful dead world, I think, can be solved
because of the connective this as a sort of ramshackle as it is the grateful that community is more connected than the law enforcement is law enforcement. Has these databases that don't even talk to each other the grateful that community is talking to each other and they're going to be able to get answers.
I was fascinated by the ability of the grateful Debts Fan base in solving something
action among fans so strong. They can help clear a twenty year old, cold case. I knew there was something special here.
if used the right way again, this
solve any number of cases. When I had first met Todd Matthews, my initial
interest was in his pattern of greek debt cases, but soon after digging into this something org
more interesting stood out to me,.
The power of music Van Base could have in
having real life crimes
The last few years I've had my fair share of personal experience, diving into missing persons and unsolved murder cases in those two things
Tell you for sure one. It does come at a price. The pressure to solve a case in a single package season is pretty huge for every case. I've ever looked into. I want the best outcome. Possible
and in terms put myself in sketchy unnerving situations. Number two is the
word first hand about the power of the media, are telling the story
an unsolved case to millions of pockets. Listeners can actually make a difference. It can take an ice cold case instead it on fire and when people
talking again slowly, but surely the truth is flowing. In any case, you cover as a journalist for a podcaster. Castor will never leave you. This is a lifelong comment. If, if you decide
wanna take on a case- and you say I want to make a pot cast about it, you're in for the long haul, it's not something that you're gonna do.
six months and then move on to something else. You will do a disservice to the victim and the victim's family. If you do that you're in it for the long haul there are cases
I have covered twenty years ago that I still talk to the family of this is a lifelong commitment, is not something for the fate of heart or somebody that just going to go.
Be flighty and then even move on to another hobby or another case or whatever you're going to be connected with terrace case for the rest of your life and with the Atlanta murders for the rest of your life. It's true of cover the case of a missing woman from South Georgia,
Terra Grinstead, of cover the Atlanta child murders that happened in the eighties, a missing
from Colorado named Crystal Reisinger and in just because the pot,
season is over does not mean your personal commitment is to Pakistan
what's more intimate we're living life along with them and telling them a story while they're going about it,
daily business podcast have such an opportunity to connect with people and say: hey. We have this mystery. Can you help us out with it? That's how it becomes alive there. So much of a community that wants to help.
Is port of human nature to want the truth, and when people come together with that unify goal, the impossible can happen. I've seen it would if we applied this idea of an investigative, true crime pie cast to a target group of people who are already prone to keeping in touch and looking after each other in the first place like throwing gas on a fire calling out the fan base of a famous raw
bend to help solve decade old cases that could have a real impact before you.
Decided to embark on this journey. I cast a wide net. I released an article about this project very loosely that I was doing a cast about the unsolved cases of missing a murder grief that fence I sent the article to several music outlets fingers crossed that, maybe just maybe the right person would see it in contact me
But there was one glaring problem with his pack idea of mine,
I know very little about dead heads or the ripple debt for that matter.
Understanding who they are would be crucial. So I got some help from Pakistan, Jig Brennan, whose
of disgrace, land
Jerry Garcia was an outlaw. How do I know this because
sang of bad bad men, fancied
often outlier apart from square society, someone living life out on the margins like his hero, Jack Kerouac, unlike Jack's, hero, Henry David, throw, despite being one of the world's most recognisable rock stars, Jerry Garcia, Lude, his life out on the fringes like one of the liberated characters in the many songs he sang and played with his ban the grateful debt
Casey Jones, Saint Stephen Uncle John and the candy
no this, because the grateful dead have become a recent obsession of mine over the past few years.
That in itself, like the long strange, trippy history of the grateful. That is our docks. I'm not supposed to be obsessed with grateful that
I grew up in an entirely different music scene. There were no peace,
times and VW vans with bumper stickers. That read nothing left to do but smile be kind and who are the grateful dead? Why do they keep following me?
there were leather and studs flight jackets and flat top some bumpersticker that Red bite it. You scum straight edge in your face, and I shot Reagan, my eyes
in college years, weren't spent chasing the dead around various stadium parking lots proclaiming that
I need a miracle. They were spent
knowledge is hard core matinees on Sunday afternoons and dank rundown Boston, night clubs and Central Massachusetts D. I venues this is all to say that I came up on the complete opposite.
and the counterculture spectrum is grateful dead fans, but eventually
the grateful does music found its way to me.
Two did their ethos of freedom and Outlaws spirit, and I realize that
grateful dead, crazy as it seemed, or one of the most punk rock band to ever exist
they challenged norms fought authority, snubbed their noses at the music industry, did whatever the fuck they
and in service too, there are and built a deal
Why empire and service to their fans? They also did a ton of drugs,
if all that's not punk, I don't know what is so. I wrote about the grateful dead or my other podcast disgrace.
a park about. What musicians in the true crimes have been involved with. In my episode on the grateful dead blew up,
Jerry Garcia as official biographer in the bans long time publicist author of the book on the grateful dad along strange trip, Dennis Mcnally contacted me you
to talk about some of the things I written in spoken about it. My podcast MIKE
relations with Dennis only deepen my fascination with the ban and ultimately lead.
this collaboration with pain. So that's why I'm here to help you
understand the story. Pain is bringing you to understand how chaos and
mystery and murder can happen around a ban known for their pacifism, their generosity of spirit.
They're playing and in their character a band with some of the most devoted indocile fans. Fans
is dedicated to the dead as they were to their ethos of freedom and peace, and love to understand that
You need a really understand. Just
were the grateful dead,
the short answer is there were America's banned if
was the NFL. The grateful dead would be the Dallas Cowboys there from almost the beginning and culturally, more consequential than any merit.
Ban before or since the dead
influences ubiquitous. You can see it in fashion, advertising, media politics are and, of course, in music,
grateful dead, existed as a band for thirty years. A career that stretched and succeeded over four decades abandoned
tending to sell out stadiums until its final days, abandon touched, multiple generations of fans inspired musical giants like Bob Dylan Inornate Comin, in whose music, today
can just as easily be heard in a college dorm can within an office of a US senator, but behind that influence and at the core of the grateful dead is the darkness
a route evil that played mostly in the shadows but managed to rear its monstrous head time and time again throughout the dance history to claim lies some from within the band itself. Most, however, from their legions of fans, darkness bond for the unique counterculture soil tilled by one of the most subversive bands, our society is ever see never mind embraced. The grateful dead is as much about their peaceful hippy dippy Teddy Bear image, as they are about that darkness, the foreboding skeleton
wearing a crown of roses at the band nicknamed skull fuck and that dark star that,
ashes, pouring its light into ashes where reason tatters and the forces tear loose from the axis
where people untether themselves from the clutch straight society live off the
it and chase miracles through the transitive nightfall of diamonds. Through parking lot, you talk,
is policed: by dire wolves in sheep's clothing were magic is possible, but so too is murder,
with so much time is by so much of the living memory has been lost.
You'll get somebody that will tell you something. I ve never tell
body before and if we wait any longer, I may never tell anybody
when the page darn did not turn back. I didn't know exactly what this journey was going to take me,
but I had this familiar feeling in my god. What, if you really
Come up on something and you're right in front of somebody that maybe did something to to and they found
address your number. The region called
A strange phone calls I have had somebody threat threaten kill me that was going to come here. Let's hope that doesn't happen.
Whether or not you resolve a case with your ever you're putting together found it
information is a valuable for a long time.
Maybe in ways you never even thought about. Neither of us
and thought about your part of it. Now.
you're in the land of Olaf's. Now,
saw not very long ago. No is here
loving memory of Mary, Regina, joy, twelve twenty of sixty two
one. Eighty five and Gregory Gregory Alan. There were newspaper articles about the killings. What I read is that it happened around here
allegedly the guy that they arrested killed them. It was a long time ago. It says a secret memory before this was a park. This was a camping ground for people who are homeless and staying in their cars. There was a homeless encampment here called Rainbow Village. They were part of it. What I'd like to see is I'd like to see a display here. You know like maybe a wooden board with rain
Village on it maybe a picture of Rainbow Village, a story of Rainbow Village and in the story of these two as a bit of history of the park,
one thousand nine hundred and eighty five Marion Jola twenty two years old and Greg Kniffen eighteen years old were murdered here on San Francisco Bay. It's now
look park, but it once was an encampment called Rainbow village.
A man named Ralph Thomas was convicted for their murders and sentenced to death.
Mary was found with a male companion in the Berkeley. California, Marina on Thursday, both had a a single gunshot. Their head, Burley Report said May was a devout follower of the grateful that Rock group Berkeley police, save it. For two days, Mary had lived a quarter mile from there Rainbow Village, a community or commune of buses and bands. So why am I here
Well, a few days ago, I got a random email from a stranger, a grateful debt them.
and it sent me down a dark twisted radical his
said I'm interested in telling a tale about a grateful dead, mystery that may have put an innocent man in jail.
for a murder that happen in Rainbow Village in nineteen. Eighty five,
Transcript generated on 2020-11-29.