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Q&A with Payne Lindsey and Philip Holloway 04.13.17


Payne Lindsey and Philip Holloway answer your questions from our Voicemail line and from social media. Have a question? Call us at 770-545-6411. 

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Hi, guys, Philip, always hear coming up in two men and I'm going to be breaking down with you. Some breaking news Ryan DO has been charge. By the grand jury in the urban canny superior court, with the fence of malice murder as bad as it gets along with felony murder aggravated assault, burglary, The ceiling of death will be breaking that down answering your questions coming up Can you just summarize in Layman's terms. What actually happened yesterday on April twelfth so- the way it works typically is its very no ceremonial in nature. Basically, the grand jury is convened in and they're gonna hear other cases besides. This will make their all placed under oath the district any runs to show the district attorney is by law the legal adviser to the grand jury, but no
is present in the grand jury room when they deliberate the. Basically, the district attorney drafts up this document, the bill of indictment and call. A witness or witnesses. In this case it appears from the face of the environment that they just brought in one witness the case investigator, Jason Chanel from the GDR and its appeal. There's that that that was the only witness. Another surprise me there's, usually only one witness in the majority right of these types of things, they basically answer the these questions and they can answer questions if any are asked by the grandeur, and then Attorney and the witness leave the room in the grand jury deliberates and they decide whether not there's probably cause So basically, what's happened. Is the term of court has started for the upcoming, determine the Irwin Counties Period Court and the grandeurs have met, and one exception. The entire Grand jury for this term participated they selected
person and a system for person, and they started hearing some cases in one of the ones that they heard of course stated Georgia MRS Ryan Alexander do and they It was called a tribunal, which means the grand jury found that there was probably cause to believe that on October, the twenty third thousand Van Ryan Alexander do committed defensive Maoist. Murder malice is a type of criminal intent. It's something more than mere intention. It's more like unevenness goes alone, It doesn't mean this service premeditated for a long period of time. Mouse aforethought can be something that occurs in an instant and it doesn't have to be like he planned it out for a week or two weeks. It could have been something that literally, he decided to do instantaneously moments before he did. It led late and count to they charged with felony murder and they also charged with fairly murder and count free,
a fellow murder is still murder and it carries the same. Potential penalties is malice murmur, but it's a little bit because it doesn't require malice? What is based on is a person who dies, irrespective of malice when someone is committing another felony offence, in this case the first underlying fell, is aggravated. Assault in ITALY is that he used his hand an object. Which, when used offensively against a person, did result in serious bodily injury, the aggravated salt, thereby causing the death of tariffs Grinstead. So that's the first, there's an alternative theory of criminal law ability for fairly murdered, underlying felony being burglary so they're saying that he committed. Two separate and distinct felony offences and theirs. Result of committing those offences caused her death. So that's the differ. Dwayne Mouse murder and fairly murders
Why are they saying that this was a burglary? He was there to burglarize the place, The topics recently is that everyone burglary and robbery the worthy saying what he was he going to steal something or what they ve alleged and count five that he did commit the offensive burglary. They always have charge the underlying felonies separately along with the felony murder charge. So that's why you get for being arrogant, assault, count five being a bird when they do alleged that he was there on law, flynn that he entered her home with the intention of committing a fifth, its they know of that. He was there to do other things, but elected not to charge that, but charged their alleging that this is a pair a garden, variety type, burglary involved someone going to some house and turning to steal from the house now. Let me take this demanded and talk to you about burglary burglary could be something
as simple as I decide to go to your house pain when you're, not there and I walk in and when I walk in my intention. What I have in my mind is that I'm going to steal your laptop, and I decided wait. A minute pains I said, I'm not gonna steal his laptop and I well the burglary is already complete the moment. Inner without afar, your residents with that intention in my head. Doesn't matter of actually do it under the law. The burglary is complete. The moment that our inner, your home so This alleges that he went into her house with the intention of committing a fat and that is what they're saying happened. It name the intention being theft, s right in the way the lorries, if you inner or remain inside a location without authority, with the intention of committing a felony or affect your. See a burglary. So if you in,
her into some was home with the intention of creating early felony, its burglary, if you enter with the intention of committing aggravated assault like they ve alleged in this indictment, you're guilty a burglary if you enter with the intention of committing forgery or any other felony criminal offence. You ve committed the offence. So it doesn't have to have to be fair. There could have been more nefarious intention. Maybe they, if they knew about one, maybe they decided to leave it out or maybe they just believe it doesn't exist. But They have chosen to proceed with, for sure is the narrative than it was a garden variety, burglary. Now, of course, the act Saul. They say that he entered the intention of committing aggravated, saw there are many ways it you can commit aggravated saw you can committed. Assault, saw the deadly weapon or with an object which might I'll be a banana objects like your hand,
not necessarily inoffensive weapon, but it can be used that way. One thing about this indictment that stands out for me and if I were going to try to defend against this one challenge I might make to this environment per strong argument, for it is that it doesn't. Sufficiently in love, you say how the hand was used in a way that was likely to cause serious injury or death. Didn't I needs to sufficiently put some one all knowledge of what they have to defend against and I'm reading this indictment is Ryan, Dukes attorney I'm not a shilling put all notice. What I have to defending is did he choker with his hand, any hitter more times with his hand. We just don't know from reading this indictment. I've seen a lot of divers that allege felony murder, based on aggravate assault. I've seen a lot of aggravated assault indictments have drafted a lot of when I was a prosecutor and you were train that we always
the wheel of a more specific when we're talking items, other little The file on this typically considered a deadly weapon. If you talk about the non item, hand or a lamp post, or anything like that you kind of need to give some more specificity by saying you know using his hand to call death, to wit, did show curtain, or something along those lines, because this really doesn't say how he used the hand to caused the death of that fight that This indictment is much better in its wording than the than the wards were. This indictment tracks the language of the relevant statutes. It hits on all the elements of the offence alleged it's important an indictment is not evidence. An indictment is simply. Formal charging document that replaces the arrest warrant and, if their
the trial or a plea or anything happens in court. That resolves this case. They have to to base that on this new charging document because it supersedes anything, It does add the offence of mass murder. I was one of the things we talk about after the arrest, and we saw the warrants was well if he committed aggravated assault. That's an intentional act. And I wondered out loud, I think, on the park, while they didn't charge, malice murder in the warrant. It was not very clear, but the words intention and things like that, and it did not use the legal word which is malice, which is similar but means something entirely different.
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the question is basically is: is how would they get a jury for such a small counting, and I think the obvious answer is that they're not I'm not going to get a jury? If this case were to go to trial get a jury from our own county. There's been so much widespread, pervasive publicity, which of course was the Reason for the pod cares and the reason the gag water theirs gonna, be anybody that probably doesn't have some opinion. Not the case. Already in everybody talk to an illegal communicated, its almost unanimous everybody's, confident that they would need to move I'll, outside of urban county to some other jurisdiction that may not I have heard so much about it or have formed opinions about it. Now it's important to recognise that and defend a charge of the crime has a constitutional right in the state to be tried in the county and have a jury pick from the canning, where the crime allegedly occurred, a record.
For change. Venue must come from the vendor and it would mean that they would waved their right to have a trial in the county, but but I think it would be virtually impossible to come. For to be tried. I have my reservations about whether knowledge actually going to go to trial. My personal belief is that it will not, but if it does, it's gonna have to be moved and that you pay this. In the end, I point: let us total yeah my question is regarding on lost absurd. You talked about the conversation that Duke supposedly had with somebody online, and my question is: how could the potential conversation or any other conversation that he may have had a fact future trials? Really to him online Duke credibly entered as evidence or would it affect any prior statements? Movement, that you make anywhere teeny body if it can be corroborated.
You made that statement it fixes. If it can be used against you in court, then they will bring it in an if if a criminal defendant makes us but to a third party is not here say by definition, can and whether or not the person said in quarter. If it's not a court setting anything said in any capacity could be electronic. You could be on Facebook or on Twitter or all text message or could be verbal anything that you say if it's, if it matters in the case, it can be used against you. I think that answers the question is,
clear that anything that either one of these defence may have said against their own interests could cause them some very serious problems. I feel that Europe and the great state of Ohio in my question is this: with all that he's being invited with if he was found guilty of all charges, what would be the maximum sentence or punishment or those crimes, and is it possible that he would get the death penalty or what he's been charged with thanks guys, Georgia organizational question all the charges in the indictment, except for the concealing a death? Let's there was a trial and he was found guilty of everything All of the charges the case other than concealing a death. Would, I think, merge that is being absorbed into the malice murder charge that cows count. One the maximum penalty, would be death. The minimum penalty, if convicted, would be life with the possibility of
all it a middle ground which is life without parole. The judge can always tack on a consecutive centres for the concealing a death of ten years. I believe so we're looking at potentially a life sentence or death sentence, plus years. If there is such a thing now the Ba hasn't said that their seeking the death penalty, I personally believe that you could make the case this would qualify for the death penalty. I personally don't believe they will be seeking the death penalty, but and if all the other charges are absorbed into account. One and simply sentenced on that he's? Looking at at least life sentence would the possibility of pearl, but, of course, assuming a lie in our role in Georgia doesn't mean what it used to you guys have thirty, seven years before you even entitled to be considered for pearl, so
life sentence, even with the possibility of role is a very very long time, and that is very clear that our position- and I think you did a great job- is another part of the parrot body or Bob indicate and anyway, surely there is not aware that he can actually get a reward money, like that's ridiculous, in my opinion, but out, though you know what that means. So do I just wondering keep up the good work? We don't know what stipulations of any may be attached to the reward money, but the bottom line is no, I don't think bows Are we getting any role more money? I think that's a fair conclusion. Well to what extent anybody else may be entitled to. It is an open question, We don't know the parameters of whose entitled to collect what the canoes
This might be a lot of times these cases, one up in litigation if someone believes are entitled to reward money, it's not granted in their court case that follows fairly confident very companies manufacturing both not be creating a reward money there. This is about the true cost of heard. It said in several pike, as if there were did a trout so that it could possibly bank rope. I still owe that my question is: what is the extreme expenditures for a trial that says to possibly have that much cost actually almost bankrupt, some like a small town but Love Pike S thanks. Every time you move a trial from one restriction to Another- and we just saw this not to all go in Georgia in the hot car death trial, just in Ross Ferris, which range from top Candied Brunswick and using. That is the most recent example of the move trial in Georgia. You know you
put up the judge in a hotel for as long as the trial takes. Maybe it takes couple weeks. Maybe three you gotta put up the debate. Tell me how put the prosecutors you gotta get all the evidence smoothed, the jurors would come from the local jurisdiction where the travelers move to Lee. Everybody involved the trial from the the urban carrying Sphere Court, Judge or when Kennedy AY his staff, his investigators. They have to do they have to put up in hotels core reporters. To go the defence team, the the poem defender in any by working with him has to go. You get security costs because it, You move it to another county in that other county jail has to hold an inmate that belonged to another county. So you got to pay another county two thousand and eight security cos lots of things that people think about, but a trial is very complicated. Machine
There's a lot of moving parts to it and basically take everything and you on planet a transplant. New pre re planet could be hundreds of miles wide and there's just a lot of extraneous expenses people, often Tom overlooked. But suffice it to say it's. It's a considerably. Higher costs associated with a move? the trial than one that takes place where it occurred, hey. This is one way of Mississippi. My question was convicted of embezzlement charge. Is that something never qualify his dna to going to code it in so doing they tested against the glass or with that car? Not something require here, gave a dna samples thanks, so much trouble you're. They would have most likely take his dna. The struggle of taken his fingerprints and those types of things would
go into the electronic databases, one for the fingerprint one for the dna and if they have any dna that they parent tune, if there's a match than they can they can make that match, but they also can essentially try to rule somebody out as being in place as well, but its lot easier rule somebody and it is to rule them out as being in a location based on the existence or non existence of either one designed yeah then they can, they can make that match, but they also can potentially trout a rule. Somebody out as being in place as well, but time to set new goals and resolutions their easy to make, but their harder to stick to an audible. We,
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audible, dot, com, slash up or tax. You p, two five hundred five hundred again, that's audible, dot com, slash you p or tax up to five hundred five hundred yeah. So these are the twitter questions and Facebook questions, and so this questions from at been de gag doesn't indictment mean there will be a trial by jury. Well, an indictment is that there can be a trial by jury, but it also means that there can be a plea under georgian law. You cannot interplay of guilty to a capital, offence and capital offences. Anything punished a death or life imprisonment. Certainly, murder qualified. You can't enter a plea,
to a martyr charge in the state of Georgia, unless it has been ran jury indictment. Many offences can I can waive the right to grand jury and the prosecutor can proceed on. What's called an accusation which is essentially the same kind of document this, but there's just no grand jury just signed by the DEA there's other types case. Whether the aid can automatically do accusation, but normally ok, so before the case can be resolved one way or the other by trial or by plea. There has to be grand jury. Indictment of the case are zones from sharing at three dog love, three: why does the GB? I keep everything so secretive. What are they trying to protects all right now. The the short answer is that there's a gag replace them. They can't second, that just a matter of good police procedure to protect integrity of your investigation that you not reveal everything you know, paint Lindsey, might know a thing or two about that. But is this true? You don't necessary. Early reveal everything you know so that
not compromise the results of your investigates because we think about it in the brain. Since you know you got human beings life on the line, someone who is presumed to be innocent unless either play guilty or a jury finds them guilty, so they to make sure that what information gets before a jury potentially is not contaminated it anyway. That's for the law in answer to a short question on this one from In these words at Georgia, Lady seven didn't and jury. Ask any questions we don't know because what happens in a grand jury in Georgia secret. Their deliberations are done entirely in secret. What happens before they start liberating? Is she so we don't know and we're not entitled to know by law. What, if any questions they asked of any witnesses that we call looks like there was only one witness which is the case. I did they Oh my experience, having presented cases to grand Grandeurs Louse prosecutor, many times or no questions if there are,
questions it? Sometimes, just last, for a few minutes, I've had the rare case takes a little longer, but most of them are fairly quick. Where this is it when I look at two different tourists on a question from at Rachel Storm big any chance, the grand jury members could speak out about what they heard this week is against the law or just against the gag all interesting enough. The grandeurs jurors not Sunday to gag order, but they are subject to state law into the oath that they took to keep everything secret and not discuss out. The grand jury room. What happens in the grand jury, It's not really a gag or issue, but it is part of state law. They can't talk about what happens in grand jury. Ok, this was from Jennifer Nicholson, add Genie Nick You or the public ever truly be informed as to what really happened. The night to Grinstead disappeared. That's an actual question.
My biggest concern ever since there was these arrests and the case that, if some deal is cut with Ryan Andrew, though then it's possible that they could one up in court maybe it was Saturday afternoon on an unplanned unscheduled calendar. So relate to a factual basis without anybody having to say exactly what the facts of the case are, the judge could accept the plea of guilt. The negotiated plea and afterwards and he goes without their ever being any public record of what they believe happen Do you think we can have any effect on her? I think that the public can have an effect to a degree that the public can make it to the elected officials that they're not gonna, stand for think. That's really the the the check and balance that you have here, but I do this all the time. If we want a schedule up a negotiated plea, you look
so just have to call the judges often say we like to bring so and so in for a negotiated plate more afternoon at two o clock in the judge dealing in answer yes or no art, it is from Miss Bree at three, does the GB. I know if anyone else besides bow in IRAN was involved with the concealment of the body. Well, Presumably they would know, but we don't know what they are. We don't know what they don't know there. Maybe things missing. I've never seen an investigation that answered era single question that possibly exist, but going out on a limb here I mean to say that if they felt someone was criminally involved in any aspect of this case, they would have been charged. That's what I've got tells me. I believe that to be the case of pain, a lot of people have sent me some questions over Facebook and promises. Get to some of them, Kristen wants to know if anything ever happened with the soil samples that you from below a house in a cellar, and has there been ruled out at this point,
Those saw samples were tested and results were negative. As far as the house go into the house. It was where the barbecue was that's the house. It was we test the soil underneath the house were tear, went the barbecue that night. Well, if someone sent us a tip and we looked into it and felt that it had some merit to it, and without their called around samples and that's where did you I came later and found the animal bones, which I firmly believe were animal bones and I was pretty sure that they found something. But we searched every where, in where we were now, you could have crawled deeper under the house through the Cross Bay, to the other side, but If you stayed in the area where you could see ends
the strangest you wouldn't only thing- and there are some pre comfortable wherever they did find, was weighed and they're, not where we were looking Aaron s pain. If you try to reach out Ryan for an interview. Do you think at some point he may speak to you? I have try to reach out to Ryan. I would definitely entertain the idea. I would be open for him telling me his side of the story and telling everybody else, but I have now reached out, and sure that whatever happens so Becker or Facebook S do we know when Ryan's rain will be that good question and it leads me into a topic I want to talk about, which is the next steps. The arrangement is what happens next. It goes back to the old days in Georgia when people could not really, no necessarily the board, for the most part read and write, and so to be put on notice what you were charged with. You had to be
and a court, and literally, if you couldn't read the judge or The dna would read out loud in open court, exactly what you're charged with and give you a copy of the written document. So it's a throwback to the old days and it's an antiquated procedure most of the time and people who have lawyers frequently waive arraignment you mean they, their lawyer- will sign a document entering an initial, please not guilty and they get a copy of the indictment and they will get future Courtney if there are known and then the lawyers go out, start preparing their strategy for how they're gonna resolved the case, so An arrangement is something that will be next and it will be. Set by the court in the not too distant future and its something that very well could be waived. That's not assuming a time, and we will see the defender in court now. It's important point out that at any point the process from this point going forward, The next step could be the entry of the play of guilty. So if they, gotta play deal. They can literally said
what were the arrangement if the parties agreed to it and just go straight into a play, deal and have a guilty play hearing, and that could be near the shore that the arrangement will come next. We know that there's a five they noticed requirement, so it it's going to be the not too distant future, but not necessarily in the next day or two following the indictment. So after that. There's time for pretrial matters, pretrial motions to exclude evidence of other things, various motions to be filed to either party of the judge made a rule on, and then there would be a trial, and this could happen quickly. But I tend to doubt: if it's going to be a trial, it will be several months in the future, but that would be how it will be resolved if there's not a negotiated political solution. Guys. Episode was makes him mastered by resonate recordings. You can check them. Resonate recordings. Dot com
as a reminder. Next Monday is a case. Evidence this wasn't guys and Caesar.
Transcript generated on 2020-01-12.