« Up and Vanished

Q&A with Payne Lindsey, Dr. Maurice Godwin, & Philip Holloway 08.03.17

2017-08-03

Thank you for your support this season! Enjoy our final Q&A episode with Payne, Dr G and Phil Holloway. 

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
I ain't nothin. now from Ohio and by the finnish listening to the people, and now I am- I wanted to be tied up in a bow, wish everything this came out but ensure found by both framed I am that, where we're gone, whether under the by catch and wait to see what you guys do back pain I would love nothing more to have been able to completely definitively wrapped up exam what happened to tear Grinstead, both for everybody, but without some the information it's pretty much imply what to do until bow? and Ryan are able to speak or do speak or their attorney speak for them. We don't know the full story from them, at least in from
we do know about those two people. Their stories may be different. It's probably lying so until we have all the acts in all the information, and theirs a trial in this case its gloomy, or to definitively say what happened to tear Grinstead. That night did right, And killed Tierra, I don't know is both more involved. I don't know, but You heard the end of the last episode or the guy, the story about picking up some one of the white horse saloon years ago. There is more one possibility of how things may have gone down from Boston. For example, the shot you did a great job. My question is: how do you think the upper gas men more specifically, the last episode- will affect Ryan and input to be honest if I and then I will go with that he was black out and you about them I told them tat and, but I would go down this money that banks will
certainly no question that, if that particular Lori, could be verified and it can be verified that it was in fact Ryan, who was picked up outside the bar and was driven to that particular location that was verified to be his home at the time. and then he made those statements That would be a very powerful theme to use in defence of Ryan do However, there are a number of legal hurdles that the defence team will have to get past the Big hurdle would be often a that the statement ever occurred One would be off occurring in verifying that it was Ryan who made those statements. And finally, perhaps even the biggest hurl is that even if all that could be verified its hearsay, in other words, it's a statement that was made out of court and in fact, this particular instance, it was lazily made by a person who is so
to be deceased. So, if it's an out of court statement, offered for the truth of what contained in that statement. the person who makes that statement is not subject to cross examination, because there are no longer alive, so, while as something that's very, very interesting and may very well be the truth of what actually happened there's no way to prove that it actually is the truth of what happened, There is every reason to believe that the person who related the story about what his brother, her, saw in did with this inebriated person the occurred. In other words, there is no reason to believe that the man is lying about. What is brother told him, there's no way to know if his brother was actually talking about Rhine Duke Then if that could be proven, the rules of evidence can't say that you know
this is hearsay, the persons not subject to cross examination, and therefore, these statements would be inadmissible. there is one way, however, that Ryan could use that theory as a defence, and that would be for Ryan's, actually take the stand in his own defence. And say that is what happened in other words Ryan, who had to say sure if I killed somebody or not someone. He told me that I killed somebody when I was black out and that somebody was bow. And then the question would become has Ryan ever said anything different. What exactly did he say when he went down and spoke to the GB agents, and if he left that poured out the It would be an inconsistent statement and it would prob. We do that defence if he tries to use it at trial. However, he told the GB agents that here
sure if he killed somebody, but that someone had told him that he did when he was passed out one night in any. As far as the same way in court, then he use that as a defence, but there's no way to get the, story that was related to the brother of a deceased person into this courtroom before a jury yeah, the new year is upon us, which resolutions do you plan to conquer and twenty twenty sticking to improve,
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slash, cadence My name is Christa calling from Weymouth Massachusetts. I just a season of open vanish had one Then that's bothering me through the second half of the season is bad episode, where she got her principled, barbecue and towards the end of the party, before she read he's on the arm with someone and she comes, a person she loved Bannerman. He's I think a little differently on the phone. I was just wondering if a phone records were ever confirmed and the last call that she made before leaving bad, principled barbecue,
what are able to determine who she was talking to him and could it have been either Ryan or or anyone who is having that party that she would have been heading to seeing after the barbecue, really loved the sea, then and look forward to the next one. Thank you she he received numerous phone calls, but the last How that she received was about. I'm twenty It was from the detective who she was good. France within we see in that was at hand. Twenty heat docks, detective imperative. And that was confirmed. We ve never had any access to any case. Dogmas wooden the phone records, but that was confirmed BAR daughter, Troy Davis, who was hosted the barbecue. He was out there back. That's who he said that she was talking to that's how that was confirmed. That's the last known phone call. There are no off
Ruby eighty from reality tat, we did then we rather program I've met you at your grandma waiting in a neutral here to make. With regard to the boy tat, we get your cookies the gate, they asked to. If I didn't go back to the fact to visit family, you got that right. hope like that, was We, the cutest thing, effort all year, so my grandma cowboy cookie recipe- I do have copy of it. She go the two, my wife in this book for Christmas, one time and money make some money. Make some for some reason. Every time they make them, they just don T It is good for some reason no offense to them are still delicious. Put it like this something missing. I am convinced that she left one key ingredient out
and one day she ll leave a map for us to go, find that missing ingredient. I don't know my grandma- will be comfortable. Get either as a p, but you know I'll check and see. If not, then we can talk, maybe giving way some more cookies, you guys, you mean email and we'll figure it out. These guys actually have been Georgia just on the road from myself. I am question is how away and it concerns the site. You don't wanna patient, then when I'm wondering about is why constitute knowledge. A crime on the part of that is that when the head is actually EU, Jordan some form of investigation had a place for the information he can. Third knowledge crime, and I why point and that process both budget implementation part Toronto, farewell more clarification on not white. Thank you. So much now have a great day, good question: and the short answer is that it doesn't take much information at all to trigger the statute.
Limitations. In fact, launch doesn't even have to know that a crime occurred but simply have some information that an act recurred, so we know they had some information and they had some information that something happen in an orchard or was connected to an orchard. They searched the orchard. We know the information came from a tab and that involved the name Ryan Duke What we don't know is whether or not Bose name came up at any point. in two thousand and five, when they got that too even now, there's no statute of limitations for murder so that in that search if it was only connected to Ryan, would not affect any statute of limitations if it, connected to bow, and his name came up in that at any point in time, then the statute of limitations as to the state of Georgia Boat Dukes could have been
complicated and could have begun to run in two thousand and five. If so bad would have a complete defence basin, the statute of limitations in his case and prosecution, wouldn't really have anything to hold over his head. If you will, such as the threat of we want a prison to get him to testify, more information needs to be developed by law enforcement regarding exactly what happened back in two thousand and five, and then the lawyers for both sides in this case would need to evaluate that information and determine whether or not the statute of limitations is an issue and if it is, then the that's no doubt would bring it up to the attention of the court and there be free trial motions that would be filed, asking the court to dismiss both charges based on the statute of limitations hey love, the podcast and just finish listening to you. finally- and I have two questions- the first one is at the third one. You work here
in about how you were reaching dead, ends, left and right, calling numbers and were able to get in touch with anybody. And then you contacted one of tariffs friend that you called. Susan and then a man called you back and said not call anymore. You said you weren't the whole thing, her name at that time, and I wasn't all the episodes in all the keys evidence that I don't think you ever came back and told us that one or the significance was about that. So I just wondered if there was but a day on who is who then did she ever talk to you again, a very relevant to that phone? Call. My next question I really enjoyed hearing from Brian family. I felt like we ve, heard a lot from both things, thereby and then things. Of course you can verify, but I think we know a lot about him until he was married divorce. You know you have a girlfriend, we know he would the army, we know either Phelan, we know about as only a consciousness and their involvement
the Senate etc, but we don't really know anything about Ryan. So I was just wondering what was his lifelike from high school. through his arrest, can let the podcast and looking forward to the even a thank you Thank you for the question. The only thing I can about. This is the real caller the person he was talking to last name is Luke. That's all say about that. We know who the follow up your collar on various. Do we prefer not to say once a laugh, it appears that did word. But it appears that he here The simple mount problems without the how and drugs, more so between when the murder happen and when he was arrested, a lot of problems in this Robbie because of tried a harboured. This tribe was sacred sadly, and with no wonder powder about now I have not heard any thing that
ran told a bunch of people like both, so It seems that he held today and to try to deal with it and he did it alcohol and drug. This is Brittany from camper and my question is pretty simple, but do you guys think happen the terror. I've been a part of this podcast since the beginning, and I have also been a part of the Discussion Board, an it feel like there's so many areas out there, going along with what does he said in the last at the third about nothing, really sticking, I'm just having a hard time still trying to figure out what really happened to her, and I would love to hear what you guys think. Thank you so much and also I appreciate- you taking the time to express your gratitude to all of listener. We appreciate it so much. Thank you. Grady suited to be point blank to be completely honest with you guys. I do not know what happened datura now, what think, is that care was murdered. and I also think that Ryan and both were somehow involved to the extent
their involvement. I dont entirely know for sure are theirs glaring issues with the GB eyes. Narrative absolutely do. It does not make sense. Absolutely. Like I said in one of the previous questions until we have all, information. We can hear from some of the accused. We're not gonna. Do everything can be very hard to piece together all the pieces of the puzzle, right now, there's a couple missing pieces that may be big be small, but without them the whole thing. it's just not going to make any sense, but they were very close. Where much closer now than we were twelve years ago, but I think that one There is a trial, in this case the the truth is gonna have to come out. until then we shall have to wait. But the thing is it happening Jason calling from Israel
they pay the whole country other than a great job. Very enjoyable reveal a question regarding in part one of the last Where are your interviewing, the elderly gentleman, eighty five years old, and he had mentioned in passing- that I too feel that that is what it is were that remain are going remember we were under everyone counter, nor yet the operative word tonight There was a good point that you noticed. We I said that I said that tears remains were found even though the Gb Eyes not officially announced finding anything based. Some resources I have. They did find something. What it is? I'm not entirely sure, but I believe it to be to terror and based on this we have been told about the same location. I believe that they did fine tears remains one the gag orders lifted we will know more wants is a trial well, no more, but based on everything
I've been able to find in every one. I've talked too. I believe that the did find something in that orchard and it was terror. So that's why I chose to say it that way. in calling from Connecticut just finished, The finale and I'm wondering if this thing goes to trial and Ryan ends up saying that he was left out. I can recall the details of the night and he only had confessed, because either Bower has other friends had told him tat. While he was glad he heard him killed terror. Can this girl me farther, even if the only evidence we have is the finger prints on the glove that goes to Ryanair. What is ongoing, repercussions he can pay their existing furniture dead in the water, and I am looking forward to seeing you on tour in New York in summer think So if this thing does go to trial and Ryan takes the stand, and he says I don't even know for sure. If I killed her all I know is it both told me. I did that the case. Then we're gonna have to compare that. Testimony to the statement that you
to the gps when his mother, fuck him down there and if he said something different to the GB are he's got a problem. he can't really use them as a defence, because payment made two gb. I would be what we would call a prior inconsistent statement the impeached with that and under George LAW, the prior inconsistent statement, even though it was out of court considered substantive evidence. So what your statement he may to the GPS, whether it's a full confession, a partial confession, or something like that, He's pretty well married to the statement that he gave to the GPS and if you take the stand and says anything different, then what he said to the GPS then he can really be made to look like a fool. skilled prosecutor when they cross examined him about his income, the statements, if that's our place out
by approving a crew mining, Daphne I'm here from game before the miserable podcast since the beginning, its has been really amazing journey to see all that you gotta shook up around the key thing. Incredible Gunnar hoping to find answers for terror, though, and it had a couple quite and through your ball I know I've never heard of if anyone looked for evidence, at her classroom it. Maybe she had an office or a death. then how many personal belongings and is never heard of that. I figured I'd as you all and then by other quota, and then the toys really bother me about this case, the sea in a car is, could show our back I was wondering if maybe at the pageant than any picture or both are videos that could show improved you guys that she would mean when I use the word may come, have pushed them. see back in a car me back and showed them
one nation for that. But I am sure that my question think you're from my trotted good working here. Thank you for the question. I'm not sure, if GB I went through her personal belongings from the school, I know it's cool My family member, then I'm sure they did and always tell in this case in regard to the pageant, I'm sure there was a lot of pictures taken at the page it as I know it was no official a video of the page it at all, one person may have taken a personal video, but, and I can never get but she didn't have high heels on she wore expansive flats. Those could be found Several places. Only internet photographs album it's that time of year again,
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Audible, dot, com, slash up or text. You p, two five hundred five hundred again, that's audible, dot com, slash you p, or tax up to five hundred five hundred. My name is Jessica and I have been a listener since this package started. I just watch the idea. Channel episode about terror called vanished without a trace, knowing I do from your podcast. They barely covered anything but my question as they met in the glass and outside of parents house was tested and matched a male dna? Do you have any further information on that? I just don't know
We are hearing a lot of details about that. Thank you so much your podcast is amazing. Take care by you. There was coming interesting timing with the idea Channel special until Grinstead It came out on Monday the day the finale at eight o clock p, At the same time, we released episodes that was actually a we run episode. That was pretty old and I sure how old was, but that was not. a new episode I've watched at some point I haven't seen a recently, but, like you said, they mention. Glove and terrors yard. In that it had me Dna on it. We did cover that talk ass a couple times early on marine several times about the dna they found on the glove and the Gb I had swathed in over two hundred people to see who's dna was, but they never got a match to my knowledge. They never did swab Ryan Duke or BO dukes, so there in a could beyond their. We don't know As far as we know, there was DNA on the glove
there was also a partial print, but the dna, Paypal they had did not bring up any sort of match in the quota system Ok, there's Holly Farm Arlington Virginia. I love the pod was just listening to the final outcome, third and had a wonder Under what circumstances could oh and or Ryan, is actual alighted at your task to attempt to on earth You wait until the very end of the pot. I so much it up. under Georgia, law polygraph if exams are not admissible in court. The results of polygraph examinations are not admissible in court. They are sometimes use as an investigative tool but I can tell you from my own personal experience there. Very reliable, they're, not accurate for that reason that they are not admissible in court. The only way that the result polygraph examination can ever be presented to a jury would be
if the party used a process called a stipulated polygraph in. Under that scenario, the price Fusion and the defence would enter into an agreement. It would be signed and it would be, prior to any pie a graph examination occurring basis. The agreement would be that each side was stipulate that the results of the polygraph. Whether they be good or bad for the defendant or swollen trial And that is a huge gamble, because if he takes the polygraph any passes it and it comes in then the prosecutions cases sunk but the hence also bear. The same risk. If he takes the polygraph and fails it and that's admissible, a jury hears it than the defensive sunk. So doesn't happen very often it's very, very risky. Only way a defeat, the attorney. Whatever attempt something like that, it's it's literally a hail Mary pass when you think you don't really have any other way of winning the device,
would go ahead in and have a polygraph Dern privately without the power skitter, even necessarily knowing about it and the defender of the law client passes a private polygraph. Then they would approach the prosecutor and say hey, look how about it. A polygraph and then the gamble would be that the person actually passes the polygraph twice in my own. experience. I've seen people both pass and fail identical polygraph about the same issue and so depends on what of conditions that these machines, or so in accurate in terms of being able to differentiate alive from the truth that they're just not really admissible in courts, because courts prefer information that is accurate and truthful, and when it comes to technology, the technology really must something that scientifically sound and lot attack
just have reached that level of scientific accuracy is least not yet, and if, as John Address LIVE lamps love, the pod gas have been listed, all of them without it is the morning when the new one was in the box, but my question after listening to it was one legally, more or less culpable there under the influence of drugs or alcohol, as though this the situation of Brian, I being blocked. Or in some other way on drugs from a legal perspective, increases comparability and their more financial penalties or decreased them. Thanks about the good work, voluntary intoxication, is not a defence to any crime. On the other. An involuntary intoxication would be a defence. If someone were drug or otherwise incapacitated due to some type of intoxication but in a trial where in vacation is, relevant and is for
ground to be explored by either side is when, witnesses. Intoxicated taxation impairs someone's ability to effectively and accurately perceive an event as it occurs, and it also negatively affect a person's ability to later recall those events and to relate them in an accurate way in a court room. So intoxication is neither a defence to any charge in Georgia, but it could be an issue if a witness who says that they see or hear something wasn t located at the time that they saw or heard what they say they saw or heard or to take one step further if they're intoxicated when they did something that they say that they did. her pain. My name is Kelly and I'm compulsory and great job on the podcast. My question:
yet even though you're not going to be doing updates weekly, are you going to send out podcast when there's a date? on the page like when it the trial or, if there's a play deal or anything else. Will you release podcast We can be updated thanks, great God, so sad that it over thanks. Hey, that's a great question, so any major development or news in this case regarding Tara Grinstead, I'm He's gonna update you guys with New Pike, asked in the event there's a trial. In this case, we plan on cover extensively and essentially releasing brand new episodes covering the trial if there a plea or there is a conviction of any sort, any other major development that comes early, we'll be covering that too. So as long as you stick around with up and vanished, but will continue to fall, what happens in terror Grinstead case with any made
update whatsoever and will be here. to the very end. Question about do it, I know what the names as respected people involved, where Ryan and Bow lifted on that No thanks! I it was easy. Thank you so much for the question and listen to the public. Ass bow in one's names were not. the suicide note a sum their closest friends names were. And that's all I can say about that: its hands a question? How away about the dvd I case file you think of it even after building Luke resignation, regular propagated KGB. I would still say that there is now closed, unskilled, cheap fire from the public.
well? I certainly hope that at some point the entire case file is made public. The Supreme Court has said that under George LAW, the law enforcement agency, maintains these files, in this case the gps? their sole discretion to determine when a case is considered. Inactive its energy be our sole discretion to determine whether or not an investigation is open or closed and lit. We all they have to say is that is still an open investigation and There is really nothing that anybody can do about it. They would be free to never released the case file if there's anything in that case file, that's remotely embarrassing to the gb or things that they deem might be sensitive. That, I'd be embarrassing or hurtful the third parties, then they do have the discretion to say we're not going to release this. I hope that's
the case, They do release it, but I'm worried that they never will. Another thing keep in mind if there's criminal litigation against these developments, and by that I mean the trial, Each one would have the right to an appeal, so The case is never really over. Until all appeals have been exhausted about a murder case. You ve got a conviction potentially in the trial court. You ve got an appeal: directly to the Supreme Court from there. If the connection upheld by the Georgia Supreme Court, then there's another round of appeals through the state system called the Hague corpus process where we again defendants are entitled to appeal for a new trial and once the State habeas Corpus, appellant route is exhausted. Then they could turn to the federal courts to see Habeas Corpus relief, so the appeal, in a murder case literally, can go on for decades. So
there's a lot of reasons why the GB, I might be able to keep this case file closed and the public never ever see it. not in its entirety. Editors back in the Woodland Texas, I was just wondering I don't recall, bow in the episode of case evidence mentioning anything about Ryan being drunk. I just kind of figured that if you know he's this conniving mastermind kind of guy that he would have mentioned you know, Ryan was super wasted when, when he killed Tara thanks to the show guys they did. A lot of great were united. Good observation. According to what Brooks said, and that conversation with Sally, though never did mention that Ryan was drunk now Brook did say it were seventy eight people there at the house and that they were all drinking. So you could. that may be Ryan was drinking too. Both as well. But he never did say specifically. That Ryan was
drinking or that he was drunk and waste was that, if reign was drinking, how he managed to drive, always terrorists house break into it. With their credit card, and basically go unnoticed by everybody else, usually when you're drunk your sloppy or even a mess you not going unnoticed wait. Somebody up your dinner, leave something behind but Like none of this happened, so I was, I was that, if they were all drinking and rain, was drunk? How exactly was able to pull this off this regulation from Mississippi. I was wondering what it means to the case if the DNA in Bogota that was found on tariff property, there belong to why in Well, I guess we're assuming it doesn't belong. The both in Vienna was both I could check on. He was convicted. far another incident, but I was
wondering? What happens is that the innate did not match quiet but that the bank? Thank you good job. I remember There is a partial fingerprints on their, so If the dna on the glove does not match ran the prosecution got problem. There would be a bit both for the fats worthy of the day. Nay, doesn't match, ran but The partial fingerprint does and the deal They don't match bow. Does that mean, There is a third party that we don't know about that touch the glove. There would be very worrying arrested. I love the by catch. The question about the cell phone occasion but they had herself or whether at the pageant We have taken the pang on the phone help all this they. Now they. Obviously she had to link the pageant. Did she go directly how She go to whom ever
to watch the video, or did she go to the piquant workers, I mean ultimately herself. I was down at home, so my question is: do you I think that this case could have been solved donor with today's technology. Thanks guys, keep it up the problem. The pings backing of five is that basically was one main tower, was handled and urban county? so you can go anywhere in urban county beeping enough same power now, class, so sure about Indian he'll over there looking at. The pains being he area around a beacon, ordered. You know Europe. possibility that found would have picked up a tower over there near their area. Now that would be but be the same tower that she would opinion on which she was at the pageant you would have to look at the time of the panes but very good question and thank you for supporting the Bob
I have many kill. I'm calling from your car and listening to the cap and the beginning of a great favor to tat question about your interview with Gran Ma Am and brother did you then there were heard rumours in the last twelve years. An hour. happen: a terror and having a hard time, believing that a trade that has something to do with that that his brother never hurting. The circle of friends there just wanna see if there was any information on that, keep up the good work, During my interview, I asked the both of them point blank right, mom and Ryan's brother, Did you ever hear anything was there anything that was suspicious and they stared mean in the eyes and told me that they had never heard anything if they did that they would have done. Think about it, and in that moment I believe them
Ryan's brother especially seem very sincere when I was talking to him that he had no clue what happened or of any info from Ryan Ryan was involved that he should pay the price for it, but the vine I got I was talking to them was that they had never of any story like this in historian, having Ryan or bow anybody. I pain like I'm a less episode that terrorism a friend was upset that she had to reveal secrets to the investigators, but she revealed them because she wanted to know the truth I was wandering. Did you ever find out what those secrets were have my ticket for the somebody a tent live tore. Look forward to meeting you thanks. We must what that he is, but for them Haggerty avi me court, proceedings in the future stuff and they this was involved prefer not to discuss that here, but there was no bombshell job seekers. If that's what you were wondering, what they so much for your support of the broadcast
I have a question about oh dukes and his future we have credibility is clearly in question. Due to all this evidence, everything on the pod cast and being put together is Ryan Dukes could in a scenario where Ryan Duke gets off because the defensive able to portray O dukes as the bad guy and then bowed Duke get off because he's really cunning and pleaded cards right and community. Well, I have consulted my crystal ball on this and it's a little bit cloudy. So then I looked the t leave to see what they would tell me, and there are who inconclusive The bottom line is that the abbot, as we know it to be and keep in mind, we don't know all the evidence. I fully admit that
What we do know is that both credibility, problems and, if he is involved in the trial. Yes, his credibility is an issue. His credibility is an issue the minute his assets, the witness chair, a scheme, Cross examiner will take felony federal conviction, beat him over the head with it. Actively, at least in front of the jury and say you know what you're unknown liar you're a thief. This goes to the core of your credibility. You're, a dishonest person, A judge will even tell a jury before they deliberate that they can disregard the testimony a convicted Phelan, because under Georgia law they are deemed to be not credible and a jury can consider that felony condition and literally disregard their entire testimony. They don't to disregard it, but they may as well.
or immunity. I think it's unlikely that he was granted any type of absolute immunity because of the fact that he was arrested and later indicted. If you was granted immunity, they wouldn't of arrested him and they never would have indicted in them. Likely scenario is that they offered in some sort of sweetheart. Please deal in exchange for truthful testimony, key word there being truthful, and so, if it turns out that they made him that offer and that he's gone and said some things are done, some things that were inconsistent with his obligations under that agreement such as telling different things to different people and saying things possibly to the gps or any other law enforcement agency that a true and that they deem not to be perhaps even the complete truth or part of the truth. Then would be in violation of any agreement to give. full cooperation and truthful testimony. I think the more
likely scenario is that he was offered something at first and then problem, based on his action, something change and at this point I have reason to doubt that he has any kind of deal in place, because if he was truly a cooperating witness, he would have waved indictment and he would have let the prosecutor file something notice, an accusation which bypasses the grand jury. If your true, We are cooperating. Witness then you're not going to make the d a jump through all these hurdles send your case to the grand jury. You're gonna make it as easy on them as possible because you're trying to play nice in the sand box with a day so to speak so that she can take advantage of some type of a plea deal, maybe probation or short term jail sentence or whatever, but it would, Surprise me at all if BO hasn't done something to jeopardize any deal he may have had in place. But at this point about all we can do is sit back and let the justice system play itself out what I
and tell you is that the devil, attorney involved in this case. Is an honourable person and he's going to do his best to put up a truthful I don't believe he's going to put up any evidence to a jury. The tea doesn't believe is the truth, and I also know that right, is represented by very skilled Atari, so we have to have faith the adversarial criminal justice process, will work. That due process will be afforded to the defendant and Both sides have a right to a fair trial. Both the prosecution and the defence, and we have have faith. That's what's going to occur. If it turns out that the staff is able to prove his gill reliable, accurate and truthful but it's beyond reasonable. Doubt then so be it. Justice be served. on the other hand, they are not able to prove Ryan's. Gill beyond, reasonable doubt, then the law,
on the constitution says they have no right to take away his liberty unless they can prove his guilt beyond reasonable doubt. That's the high level of proof known to our legal system. So if anything has happened in this case, whether it was caused by witnesses weather caused by deficiencies in an investigation, whether it was caused by the case is presented in court and there's an acquittal then so be it the ships will fall where they may think what everybody wants, and everybody needs in this case is to see justice be done whatever. looks like that means sending someone to present because they ve been proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt soviet. If it me that someone is found not guilty because the evidence wasn't there, then so, be it. That's also justice. That's how system works is an adversarial system. You ve got a prosecutor
bears. A very high burden of proof. Prove beyond reasonable. Doubt you gotta defendants, who is presumed to be innocent and they're going to be presumed innocent, we have to give them the benefit of that doubt so It's very simple as terms it boils down to what evidence do they have. How strong is that evidence? How believable is that evidence? How credible Oh is that evidence and how credible, believable and truthful is it? to a jury of twelve people, that what is going to come down to is twelve, Citizens who unbiased and who- the way the evidence to make the very heavy decision of whether or not someone proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt, so it what I think it's not what Pain Lindsey thinks it's not what Maurice Godwin thinks it's not what
listers, the podcast, think it's what twelve of citizens chosen somewhere random it's what they think that's going to matter in the end, if I may, hey just a moment and ask for a time of personal privilege. I would like to thank everyone for the opportunity to be part this journey, I want to the listeners. I want to thank everybody who has participated in this podcast, but mostly, I want to offer much small condolences to the family. The friends and those who love to Grinstead, no matter happened or how it happened. She did not deserve to die. She did deserve to be killed. she deserved to live a long, healthy, happy and prosperous life she did not deserve to be burned like a pile of garbage in Peking Orchard added
a field somewhere. She didn't deserve to have people sit around for twelve years, knowing about what happened to her and leaving it to themselves. She does justice and its, My personal hope that whoever murdered her, whether it be Ryan or anybody else. It's my hope that that person is brought to justice it's my sincere hope that family can found peace and the terror rest in peace thanks for listening guys. Today's episode was mixed, mastered by resonate recordings. If you want to improve the quality of your pie, cast or sort of package of your own go to resonate recordings dot com, it's your first episode produced for free. This episode was recorded at industrious Atlanta toxicity,
market for two hundred and fifty dollars off your first month office rents, visit industries, office, dot, com, flash vanished. Thanks, guys I'll see you soon.