« Up and Vanished

Season Finale Live In Atlanta + Q&A


On July 30th at Terminal West in Atlanta we gathered with a few hundred Up and Vanished supporters to listen to the Season finale live, followed by a Q&A. Check it out! 

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Last Sunday we came together with several hundred up in vast listeners at a venue in Atlanta to listen to them. Support season, one finale together, we had a great time with everyone. It was amazing meeting some of you guys face to face today we're going to pay an audio from our live event as well I've q and a session with Philip Holloway Reese Gawaine and myself. I want to personally thank everyone, attended locally here in a and also those who over flew in. For the event, your support was phenomenal and for those of you who did make it. Here's on all went down whom everybody I'm not paying its I'm not paying so it's gonna of climactic isn't working. What are the alive season finale of up and vanished? Can we get a little crowd? Applause come on. That's me my name is rob ricotta ricotta like the cheese and Le Zonia every Italian. Did you love your welcome?
Do you like this being a live season episode? I should do like a an explicit content warning or something like this. You don't I mean I don't know if you've been you don't know my part in it, but maybe I'll know after this, okay This episode of open vanished so not pay and it's not as good as paying Marie's through the other ones, but that is what I do this is actually been a over two year journey. Know if you guys know that, but as far as the team we ve been doing this for not there were crazy, prose or anything, but we ve been doing this for about two years and now and you're gonna get to it all of them lie, which is amazing. So really guys here with thanks so much for coming soon This is our first stop and land, obviously being the whole time. As far as cities are, is everybody from around the area? Would imagine so? What cities yellow some cities to me?
China, Korea, I don't know that's from ok mate, making making Georgia okay, so pretty Alaska, oh I was I ya need away until maybe another time that's closer deal. Y'all mean bless. You, though, now ok, this started. Actually we're going to show a clip that I promise has never been seen before, and you guys to be the first. Actually we have some people up there. I'm so sorry. I love you all of their same love down here is up there. Ok, so we're going to show this clip rural, quick and turn your attention to the screen. Welcome to the life season, finale. The video we showed the audience was a sneak peak of some of the documentary footage. I've been shooting throughout my
castigation on tyrants, its case, this clip was exclusive to the show, we'll be available soon for everyone else to be asked about the disappearance of enough seller teacher said to Premier Monday titled up and vanished the story, details the findings of Atlantis Filmmaker Pain, Lindsey Ass. He made a documentary on Terra Grinstead, murmur clerks, Loomis infrastructure, Really, a folder. Turn on the country around here. So I'll bring you all my life,
I just don't know because I don't know what happened. I don't know why asset that his name to name had never appeared on their right. Opt for that is not accurate. Nothing is about the slip ups and downs lot of barriers in this case in a dangerous. You want to try I found out on January, the tin Woodman.
The current another week brings another last cases. Trial was a second suspenders now facing charges have been disappearance. Winston here you ve, never met your hair grumbled. Ten thousand pan the individual right to freedom of religion level should function for work.
Our audio radio writing. I will be. Enjoy that that would honestly, no one's ever seen that before I like a really good senator feed? Is I can real, quick and we'll get you above? You see what I can do you really weird stretches massage people. We don't do that here We don't do that here. I honestly would like to introduce you put a face aside from what's been on on the tv screens in that kind of thing he's a good friend of mine is the director producer of the up and vanished seasons. So far, not been vanishes bran here, please we're going to stage my friend pain, Lindsey. Oh, that's a lot more people than I thought I was gonna, be I'm used to like being in my room,
with a microphone to my underwear or something so I wrote this on the way here. I hope that's cool with you guys, but for real. I want to tell you guys that we've been working on this episode non stop for the last seventy two hours, literally the the biggest interviews we have in this podcast came the last twenty four hours, which is has been absolutely crazy. So just so I make sure I get my facts straight here a year ago. I could have not imagined being here right now. This is absolutely awesome. Your support is what makes this a real Tonight, we're all here to listen to the final episode of up and vanished were also here to honour, Tear Grinstead.
I never knew Sarah, but during the past two years have become very close to a lot of people who did. It has been a remarkable experience for me. It's a real honour and privilege to have told this story to you guys. It's been very emotional and you know it's been fund has been scary. It's been everything and you guys been along for the ride. It's amazing to think that our own curiosity and fastened listen with true crime can make something like this happen and before you play tonight's episode. I want to make one thing clear: I didn't solve this case. We solve this case and that's how I feel. Without you guys here tonight, your passion, your devotion, your curiosity, your burning desire to want to know what happened to Tierra. Just like me, that's why this happened and I firmly believe that and I'll my
thinking that. So without further ado, I wanna play the first part of the episodes me to ports, for you guys so once the first one ends it's not over, it gets even better so without further Ado, Where this thing, I look forward to meeting guys shortly, and I love you guys- umbrella guarantee our scolding. They were there Why do people of ours? We kicked off poor one of the finale to sort out crowd at it, terminal West everything it was jam pacts, Several hundred seated standing room only in the back Morgan never got to go in that order.
Lacking one in here and now that all Nelson Tony no. What murmuring for immigrant we odium currently go back with but my grandma, we ended one on a high note then Rob hosted the intermission playing sum up in bed. Trivia with the audience that's coming up after the break new ground. Yeah yeah, It's that time of year, again time to set new goals and resolutions that are easy to make, but their harder to stick to an audible. We
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audible, dot, com, slash up or text. You p two five hundred five hundred again: that's audible, dot com, slash you p, or tax up to five hundred five hundred I was giving out for grandma right. How can you not love her? Everyone has a in their mind of either their grandmother were like the sweetest woman, but actually she's here tonight, a couple of things to know who hold up your phone. Everyone has marked phone right it pretty much,
up your phone. Everyone has a smartphone right it pretty much. If you have Snapchat, We actually have a custom up in vanish filter go up on up there keep on forgetting guys, I'm not forgetting you promise, but We do other customers and vanished a filter for you guys is well. To the right of stage overhear. You guys are well. Turn intermission to take a bunch of pictures with that and Donald now he's pretty handsome though but yeah you guys can take pictures with that. We actually during intermission you're, welcome to go to the bathroom grab a drink food. Anything you guys want to do it this time it's going to be about ten. Long, but actually, if you don't mind going to do a little bit of up and vanish trivia That's all right with you guys! So I'm stamina, early from here. I want to try to see from upstairs and then from downstairs as well. As I asked these, who puts their head of that's really hard to tell that we go beautiful. Some lighting there. So I guess,
move around take some pictures as well, but we are also going to do some trivia during this time. As I said so, and we have. Ices, because we're not she people, this is not achieved thing could be. Money could be liquor. I don't know Actually it's. This is no lie, and Donald just told me this actually did not notice. In every one of those bags, our grandma's cowboy cookies. What what deserve that you do do deserve that nobody enjoying themselves a little bit, ok, good design. Paid a dime for this. I'm just point: I'm gonna get cookies for this. But we have a lot more to calm, again pain. As paying said, this is two parts so that was just the first part. Obviously we have the second part, that's just as long, if not longer so you guys enjoy that.
Become up later, and we also after that, you guess I'll video at the beginning is a right that video preconceived well, could you cuz? There was daylight, it was really crappy so that is actually really excellent. So after states sight after this next portion, And work in a basically have that video play again America I love Q and a with some of the best of the best For now we have about pry three format. Intermission and we'll go two parts to thank you guys, I witnessed a wide array of emotions in the crowd. There were tears. There were guy, in some of the more light hearted moments with my grandma there was even laughing it was amazing to see so many people from all over so connected and drawn
Tara, said story and, of course, the very of part two. We had ended off like this hello Ain t got one here. He was a man. You know how long I've been thinking yeah we give some really good. Looking towers case. You know, does it not the case I had in mind.
I can do it for years, maybe you and I should take a look into it. Okay, so couple let's get yet again, please it's weird that it's the end of Caesar we're gonna get a couple. Initial reactions from Regos, obviously just be seconds after we just heard the end of season one. Would anybody be up forget MIKE colours as a whole, some of them, maybe even Benchers Yakima, while first saw but like I lived in finnish world about six miles,
after terror disappear and hearing about all the places that come up in the story. Oh my gosh, I just feel like I'm outcry its. I know pretty much where every single one of these locations are, and they just makes a story even more so real to me and. To be honest. This podcast is my whole life. I owe my entire future to this boy. I guess I'm going to college in August first forensic science because of this public ass I am happy that it's not. This is somewhat coming to a close. I am happy that terror is finally getting peace
in her family and the people around her and my gosh. I feel emotional. So much girls give her ass. You see, that's amazing. Sometimes you know we do this and we don't understand what kind of reached at ease in having somebody's life whose looking towards the future, this that's phenomenal. Honestly, as pain said there, no way in hell that we would have been able to do this without you guys, and that is the truth. Shortly after the episode ended. Paul away. Maurice Gawaine and myself took the stage two answers. Question from an audience this. For over an hour. But here some of the highlights Please welcome to the stage, obviously doktor, Maurice God would miss your pain, Lindsey and of course, last week very lucid. Ah Philip following
I come sit over here, guys that they I didn't want to be on the might, but I want to ask a few questions: if that's ok, that's all right with you guys. I actually first one less ask your question: Doctor God, one! That's! Ok, sir, will start with you. What was your first impression of Maybe just maybe what impression of pain? No, what was what was your first impression of pain your national conversations with him and did you think his involvement would advance this case? You worked on not too long to the extent that it has happened. I didn't like it will go this war, so I'm surprised as anyone in the audience and related to it was ass, a somewhat difficult to content,
paying up again it every time, a college. He was all exercise and we're in a meeting means meetings is entirely. Thank the meetings were true but arm Finally, I just can't believe the message he said his cell phone witches. I wanna go in and out of thinking and arm, but it worked- and this is the greatest venture that I've been own I think that your garden- let me let me just say this, because a heap at the post own web slopes- and I answered it- sobbed is tat case and don't ever let anybody convention endeavoured to start again with MR pain.
We're in the middle? I can see, does work out yet look at that by now. So myself. Pain. How is the reaction both nationally and then obviously locally? We had a girl, just from fits, showed right there, but locally in Scylla changed as the cases progressed that's ago and workforce. No one wanted to talk to me at all, which was, I guess I have expected that, but then all suddenly all wanted to talk to me. Ok, who was let's keep talking, They wonder they set out. What are you anymore? Ok, what not done yet. But now it's been like this up and down thing it was first it was hard to. Can I break the break into it, and then you know that they wanted to talk.
And peoples are realising. Hey will soon also knew so so new and it will just became uncomfortable when I became this guy, who was now uncover and all this stuff and has been very interesting to experience the from being you know I was doing an interview, one time it was right when Randy was rested, there was like a couple of news people out there and they like point ten interviews that day I only know what I said. I watch them yet, but Someone robots, oh you pay. We love you of my eyes. Just go someone every year, when the guys and that guy went away and then all sudden people like you too, about myself so observes answer, and I think that it is now coming back to a place where people are accepting the fact that the truth hurts and
There was this is, it is what it is. And choose the story. I just found it and then told it, but it's been an interesting experience. This bill appall away his we can share. That's right. Am I go on now shut up? Ok, so for Mr Philip Holloway, what of all the cases? you ve done odyssey in that you ve been involved with on either what drew you to this case specifically and then the dual fold question will be how the hell did you get involved with this or that wasn't prearranged question, you use whose peacekeepers? where'd you get that I've been doing my notes revision. So I grew up in South Georgia. Tipton, where pains grandmother now
and she's right there and ambitious programme and in two thousand and five. I was already in the Atlantic area practising law, but in Eighteen, ninety nine, which was the year that terror, one that Miss chieftain crown. I was attempting to practice, law and theft. There's, not a lot of crime in in that area. So those sort of limited group of potential clients, especially people that can support, lifestyle. So eventually I came to the Atlantic area became a prosecutor in Cobb, counting
Oh, I was familiar with this case and I was at was, and still am personally friends with lots of people in the law enforcement community that were involved with this initial investigation. So it was something that was all my personal radar ever since it have when the podcast took a turn. Based on the arrests that were made it, it seemed to me that pain. My could benefit from It is something that I know about not only the legal system but the local community in that area after I had been a police officer, part time and Scylla back in the early nineties way before this case have- and I felt that maybe it would be, it would make sense to reach out the pain and I did so over Twitter and he actually had
as I recall, we followed each other right about the same time and in a cinema message, and I never really expected to be a cast member, so to speak. Of the pod cans. Didn't report hardened Lydia report to you later, I think it was something like knows the same day only be responsible for what he said is itself I'm working. I had no meetings that they also. He said you know. I think that was something all lands of. I think we need to talk there may be. Some things are lacking. Can help me with any goes? We agree to your words to this. I have no idea. I'm doing. Please help me right now that we we met not then in person it wasn't. Surely it was a shortly after that and the rest as they say is
now in the history books is weird we all like some of us is met for the first. This is actually is a fun fact in kind of strange as well, even though we do a friendship painted I, this is the first night we ve actually ever met. We worked on this. Is that a true story? We actually? It was on the couch and there's the strangest thing and like it's like seeing an old friend or a good friend or whatever, but we had worked on this at least two years together. So it's almost surprising that way as well and him being able to, let me be a part of it as well. I don't have much to say, but in terms of him being able to put that out to me the opportunity to do this, for the right reasons. Is involved as well
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eighteen. Ninety nine during the January sale, only at asleep number store or sleep number dot, com, slash, cadence, again go check out, asleep them restore her visit, sleep number dot, com slash cadence Are we actually want to throw it out to you guys for some questions, and yet we actually get down here spreading as guy MIKE it's a matter of opinion. Yeah actually know what the best way to do this. The formal way to do this would be the liner dislike slacken, preschool single file, who's, the first woman yeah,
come over Here- is obvious, operator, red ones, the lords and sordid, so this might be kind of a stupid question, but the guy that you interviewed on like towards the beginning, a part to the friend of both Dukes Ryan, Duke who, like the F B, I shut up at his door, whatever he said that the night in question, he was in Jacksonville Florida for the forty Georgia game and the forty George again that year was on October twenty nine. Which is actually after terror had gone missing sailor? You guys look, maybe I'm missing something but have you he was talking about the next weekend because without it was, for the Gmos? I work, either the night, the Ryan said what he said or the night that they were burning terror.
Since I was wearing that I hear about a Mason, hey my biggest question as the brother. That was our view. Is that the same browser, rather than a lead We live with them, I mean, if not actually, that was ever clarify. His name was James. Odin was Stephen, so said, Tarzan Even now I did not? He would not let me drive. Obviously I have a lot of personal investment in this fight. My question is: do you think some of the information that has come out will raise reasonable doubt? Are you or do you think that France is going to take any of this information and really easy to their advantage. I obviously have no idea I just have this feeling that I can't shake that they do not care what I do. They just don't believe it. They just think that this is not. The truth is that podcast
and the truth is over here, so I dont know. I would just feeling to say they're gonna, try. Ignoring as long as they can, but then again a bit surprised many times in this case levels. If I can trust me on this day, when you talk about proved beyond reasonable doubt, that's the highest burden of proof known to our legal system, the ground Oj Simpson case he was found not guilty and the criminal trial that in the civil trial he was found to be responsible. By a preponderance of the evident, serve like you, take the scales of justice and you put a feather on one side and tilts just a little bit, that's enough to carry the day and the civil kicks in a criminal trial. What you have to think about is you know if you have twelve people alone
and you know we all heard some things tonight that may have caught us by surprise- maybe maybe not, but if in the back of one jurors head, if there's a little tingling of a doubt that says You know the judge told me I can't convicted person unless there's a doubt for which I can attach a reason, and I've got a reason that I can attached to that doubt if that happens in a criminal trial against either defended at a minimum of Hungary if the entire jury, if there's a trial, believes that there's a doubt for which reason can be attached, that's an acquittal not guilty. Thank you. I have a law that less serious question. The one that's been nagging at me
Pain could demonstrate for all of us, your body language, during the phone calls with brook, Fishermen. Are you I can see that in urban pay. Our talk about your decision to in the past Essentially, I click anger. So, halfway through african
I guess it's like lie the rest. We have our guy and now the aid is kind of like way. Is he the guys? I want to know what you're thinking reasoning going into that and also wanted? No, are you slip back into this case when it goes to trial you now for cereals and wanted to decouple episodes when the case developed a little more. Are you going to do the same thing? The thing is, I find serve. I don't I'll write the story you actually easier if I did, but I don't write the story. I find what I find it it's it's been the weirdest experience, because things just happened in this case with I in areas has happened. It's just unfold. In this way and. I interviewed Ryan Dukes mom yesterday at one o clock that was not like apples hours ago that was yesterday. I got back
late last night and day, This whole case has been its just in the nick of time. This thing that thing I don't know, it's been a weird experience in the oven that there's a trial in this case, I'm absolutely going to cover this case there were in a cover, it extends, They were to find out if these guys or convicted in their punish ruby, therefore hole the whole ride, so we'll do it whenever this second, I have two questions I get back.
If you want the sense yeah, you get good, redirect Agnew laughed so the first bogey for Professor Goodwin. So when we talk about this, we are like of Ryan's deterioration of social ability, but with the time I was before or after the kind of accused like what happened, because if he actually did do the kid that all actions is social deterioration, could it happen because of his implicit guilt? or what he was tall ass. We learn what you're gonna opinion of that would be well. Vietnam underway saw Ex girlfriend from four in actually in two thousand and seven I received. Some emails from her And she said that arm she could not
really discussion, because she was afraid were you born baby, alcoholic colleagues, but he's deterioration start after the murder but dead that doesn't mean that he did it. They're just means tat. He believed he did and then my second follow up over that is with with some waste to the drugs that was introduced in this last episode. Things it does come or could cause dialysis use of heroin and what not an Ryan's, not an older gentlemen, he shouldn't have to use Alice's unless he has some kind of issues. Was there any link with my card. Drugs like heroin are something that with Ryan and impose tenderly with me, not to speak ill of today, but potentially terrorist law, nothing with terror, but
Knows that Ryan's mom told me that he use cocaine, and that was that was it anyway. Like hogs? Well, I posted a question on the discussion board up about a week ago about something that always bothered me about this case, and it was the fact that and philip- and I had some conversations back and forth about it, but one of the things that one of the things that father me about this case is that we know that bow has said she was never in our house, and we know that her phone was found in her house
and we know that she had sent the message, I'm cold to the former Georgia player, and then we know that bow has said that his ex wife, what blackmailing about the information that he knew and her first tweet was I'm cold. So in that was in two thousand and nine, and so I guess my question is: what do you think about that and then be? Have you been able to try and get in touch with Emily Heavy tired and took them away? what I guess? That's what those are my two questions. What do you think and heavy trotting in touch with its ironic? I really really is. I probably and I see a hundred people send me that yeah you don't know what I'm talking about when a boat dukes Ex girlfriends dressed up I am sorry tat. She is My wife dressed up
as the ape murdered beauty Queen for Halloween, and then you have the tweet of I'm cool. Question as I don't know, but I would have had to have seen the phone. Here's the Panama, my consensus on that bottom line. Based on all the knowledge they all the information received. She knew so she what the hell she was wearing to wash. He said he was never in the house and the phone was found in the house. That doesn't mean it was never in the house. Because he said it, could you young have all been sitting bone, asylum message how the facebook that's what I'm talkin about that so therefore contradicts what he has said and the fact that anyway, heavy time
It has family, as a solar reason to a had enough bad things, bo Wilcox County whew? Now I live there not from their up and implored at twenty eight years, the graduation, Mom and mother, though ass now glasses, I'll, tell no laws. Where have you been Lebanon, I appreciate you like you. Ok, I did both moms grandmothers. Air was mother. She shot a shock, an air one time our board ran on ours.
So what are you? What do you think rising than pieces crises is back in March. hashtag. Will it all away a month ago I let go buggy operation, God. Let me take up from the area of another now twenty eight years, but I know that I know the people involved and that's what got me about in this case, and people from my home town have sent me death threats facing me. Why are you doing this? Why are you doing that? I'm like because it's wrong? right right. Wrong is wrong. I looked over here while ago Philips why last her sweetheart, he spends more tunnel sworn up in bed, as our scarce online. That why next person,
in trouble when I just want to say I'm here to say thank you pain, we appreciated. Thank you. Thank you for what you do in listening. Thank you. First of all, this is also a success. Firstly more drunken me so Don't don't do that? Don't do that. We still love you, we drew up its true, you not drunk you funding, Nobody said I didn't say that at all No one said that right,
Madam President, no one said that my question is very Doktor Godwin, so. When you first went to investigate this case, you talked about night. Did you spent in Harvey and people that scares you in activity I'm not going to ask you to name names, because I know something come about later, but tries to name names because and also do you now think that someone were the people who were intimidated, uses didn't want? You know, Scylla over the people, their retirement age, you directly connected to this case, decent work. They did not want me in a cellar, ok, so on a scale of one to ten. How connected in this case? Do you think they were remain as far as criminality, yes,
mean the criminality scale. The wonders in common approaches here is they acted earlier problem. Probably a three or four are necessary. I'm afraid a little less entertaining the previous question. I have a little bit more of an existential question about the pipe has looking forward and want to hear what your vision is in your goals are for what these telling these stories are and how that is, gonna impact, solving these cold cases, or even just the criminal justice system in general, as we look forward, and what do you think this sort of idea of proud sourcing in bringing these stories to a broader group of people? What impacts are you hoping to have ready? You think have been had in this case by bringing this story
a broader audience robber you taken moved slowly. I got him, although I think it is all about solving it. I mean that that's the whole point in it. One is to solve the damn thing that that's what you're telling it again has been. Is heard a thousand times the decade worth of time for a lot of people, you're too, it again to make something happen and by half way through thing, a concept them to my shoes them. You know I got a gun aggressive with it I was already- and I just no I was going into than I was already in it. So what do you do? Just not do it really good or use, go all out and do something that you you haven't done before some. You know. I'm not scared about it. I want to do it. You know
it brings joy in my life to seeing the effect it has on everybody in the fact that it can have a plan positive result, issues is under evil to me- and this is a different kind of experience for me and you know even if it only happens one time I will behave as every single time, but there I'm trying to do every time on one for one or two to four two, three, four, three four for it on it. So ass. I feel isolated and just say this with pain when he says that happens in real time in terms of even just the call the aegis it heard yet yesterday, where whatever that may be, The production of this is really secondary to the fact that he will chase this, or these guys will chase this first before they put anything kind of down into an audio format retaining entertaining format sobbing the phone or such like that, because I can't talk right now
Mozilla going on right now, we'll get to it later. May I be so that a meeting in Ursula rapes, her face they actually found, sped service down there, the ashes, every watermark calls moraines I've just kidding new found Ways Edward. I now switch to business, so I guess you guys can't really say what you think Why not? I I see the Algerian infringe right. I think it's reasonable hypothesis. Ok, first off, I don't know how you all deal with all those where budget
crazy hushed. I called life, but we would have to call my big libels like shit. Ok, so I heard something on a different pike ass. I dont know what it was by somebody said something about. In a time of stress, the person returns to a familiar place Do you think that might have applied to arrive with what happened, the terror, a meme, what was both doing out there doing any of those things that he they said he, doing some Israel. Major early wrong with that. There is no doubt about it. The twelve years
he trap peeping rammers enjoy something he traveled out there. Just look around in reminisce to really of the crown to question, so I'm just curious. Yet we all think the suicide note has anything to do with this case. At this point, and also at the end of episode, twenty three you interviewed in individual, whose why, for ex wife, there were swingers stated that she was tied up to a pecan tree by boat dukes have you tried to follow up with her or could you confirm that I thought you were like terror she sent me pictures. Does shield in the orchard I just can't unseal issues awful. But now it's
absolutely one hundred percent real verified all of it. It's just disturbing man honestly, it's us, I don't even know anything about it. I Zack question even putting out there the soldiers dark in a weird, but bill wrong about just letting it sit here either. If anybody was on the fence about who these people are, I know they are one and, when asked to know to say see, bow would do he did something that rhyme would never done anything. You can't sweet those that as well as in one thing that I want to point out just to dovetail matters that I know this man here and he's not gonna just throw something out there. Unless it's been better.
TAT S, a kind of Allah, someone else's question, but now that the podcast is kind of over four. Now what are your personal opinion, though? What really have man hopes. Nobody asked me that always tell you this really out of her aunt on inflation. Remember the plan member our plan that we had for this. Will you be? I go now Ryan Dukes mom asked me that question. What do you think happened, and I also I tell you right now I don't know what happened to terror. Does it it makes sense, for we know year doesn't make any sense is makes us any by makes sense to you me you ya know anybody allow things don't add up. You know it's it's clean.
To me that here's what we know we know the bow there were, he did because he admitted it And you know we haven't been able to hear from Ryan Rhyming we he said I don't know, but if you didn't there's a completely different story, and with all the other red flags I see. No, we can ignore that We ve been ignoring that for almost twelve years now, and that is why it took so long. I don't I don't know what happened, but I firmly believe Ryan know something. I don't think that It's just completely innocent. You may have done it Mary, I think the he you know something I wondered if I can slightly January with pain to similar. I don't know that we know that
is telling the truth. So you stated, I think in Europe means a liar. You stated in your response that you know we know. What, though, did and the real question Is doing we know what he said: We know what he said on multiple occasions, which may or may not have been consistent with one another. So do we in fact no what boat did? That's that's an open question. I think, in my opinion, this why does what is bode? Not know why Ryan killed there should? but that is the dumbest thing. I've ever heard my whole life. That's right here, psychological! You! All that stuff Euralia never asked unwise and opened his psychological wake up, has the more propensity to do something about this rams though, without saying your theory, I know your theory
What do you mean that that argument? Those my first do. Thank you. So I was wondering what has been the most surreal thing has happened on this whole journey like what was the I guess. Weirdest thing, the rest. Pressure for sure and you, the crowd and I'll, tell you that question just ridiculous. If not you personally, but I mean you got someone, you know a thousand miles away or two or three people arguing about the details of this case. Here, guy they never heard of it, you had it, but my big boy, shoes on that day, I mean
I got an email from a friend who works in the news, the news industry, hearing Lana and she sent me screen shot of GPS. Email and all the media about this press conference today about it. Then said Marcella should you know this right. So what is this ends from point forward. It was just mean that was the initial burst and then this headed to a soul immediately, and I may I had no idea what was going on. It was completely surreal being in the court room. I could mean it was unbelievable. I can't even describe it. He will do so thereby showing you how to describe. It was just that intense I mean I'd at that were dedicated episode to what happened to terror, and I was about to come back in about five days with episode. Thirteen
and they arrested somebody for terrorism, murder, and I was seeing the guy from me to you in person asking him why he killed terror a couple hours later Unbelievable ends, that's amuse me that's the most real moment and from that point forward it just got even murder and we're still. What's real to me is that so many people across the country and even internationally have developed emotional attachment. Try will, to this case and, to a large degree, have help shape the direction of the podcast by advancing different theories, you for fast different ideas and really that's that's a remarkable thing, and- and I think that its surreal- that that people who never knew her
never knew terror and they don't know any of the defendants in this case there not from the area like I am, but did they develop an emotional attachment to the issues in the case and to the direction that the legal system is go thanks. Great question, thank you. I mean about the other day. I've been involved in this case happened following this cases, two thousand, since they are probably one of the oldest people in this room. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you
because without this part, has firmly believed that we would not have any answer to drive you open, you provoking me here is like, and I have no dog in this hot. I dont know terror. I didn't know her family, I don't know, I don't know anyone involved in this case and my interest is totally separate from tear. My question is: what do each of you think happened Well I'll go gas think about how you are going to dodge this question. So he's abandon yeah well, we were in Future ATLAS a few months ago for Chrome Khan and we did alive questioning.
We're very similar. This was part of a special podcast episode and not the other way. Pardon me, I saw them good. Thank you and her syn, we? I'm always agree on on everything in fact, often terms Disagree on many things, but that's that's kind of the point of discussion and. To answer your question sort of inversely at all. Any of us believe that the Fischer narrative, tat. We ve been given through the around swore it's in the indictments in the public statements that we heard. I don't think it Thus, I believe that this was a burglary that decision That is the GB. I believe it will not stand up me for I do not doubt that they do but.
I know that I don't believe they ve got on my regard, bad, I don't think pain or not. Government believes that this is a burglary gone bad. That's a school teacher, ok and those of us who know school teachers or our school teachers noted that they don't make a lot of money, especially in our when county, and they don't have great wealth. There's there was none. In that real house of great value, there's no in the burglar it, and I can tell you that burglaries like that for the purpose of theft. Just don't happen in a cell, so I'm not buying. This narrative that this was a burglary that went bad. I think that it was so else that went really bad, but what that something is is still an open question, and I My opinion do not believe the
entirety of the state's theory in this case. I agree with that now don't start him off Eddie I mean you talk to mother last night. I did expand on that. Please. Students like a solemn I got this she may here's the thing they were both open to the idea that I could have done this and if he did he's gonna pay for it. But they're the saying the hey, I asked him. He said no, I believe them.
Once proven me otherwise, and I can't disagree with that either so I really do believe them when they told me that they have the same goes we do in a sense of they want another drink. They'll know any more than we do. Leave them when they told me that So I don't know like us earlier, I think Ryan, know Somethin data he's just nobody in this does it knows no annoy. You know something. What didn't have time to maybe talk to both between the time Libya and this limit may shared assorted, but I never share this package, but I had some. I have some screenshots from the messages between Bow and Ryan before. Ryan was arrested in the GB. I was trying to get boating or twenty goodbye to have Ryan admit what he did. So both said he goes something paraphrasing big time, but some
all these years, I never understood why, man, why you do it right His response was ok, question mark Could you be more vague? I mean Yes, I know that it just so I don't know that was the response interesting and thank you for sharing, yet nothing better you got to give it to him this time. You just tell me what you think. I think the destroyer
Our terrorism body was just as beneficial to forego and ran for rent sickly. That is a good point. I do not think there is no doubt about it. The destroyer of the body was just as beneficial to help both as much as raw think about average evidence was destroyed, seamen again,
thank you know from you up, like you, don't be mad for a second time. Actually, the lady in the White tanks, opera, you're, gonna, end the line there as far as questions for the moment, if that's ok we'll be about unseen everybody afterwards, but just for the second time guys think someone's having I'm not wasting. I couldn't. I sit behind me side to really quick questions. The first one is so they spoke about in the car. The sea have been pushed back, did they do any dna testing, hair fibres or anything like that in the car? Much later that the car was process fingerprint about John David Anderson, but the car
was seized and taken here today are GB. I encounter much lighter and they tore our part, but never found, and is that the only forensic evidence that I know of in this case is that only the love that that their released like well? I think you would have heard about it, but now cause they needed something and its unease that the costs in the drive for that amount of time before they took it away or we are, and we need to have a lot of problems with machine. The car luminous and knows in Roswell kept saying I do it and he never did you call her her own parties before I came. She was on her own person to do it and, finally, he, when he had done the honor
quick question is: is grandma gonna give away a recipe for the companies who used to think about that she's not, but we she did make some cookies for us to give way to you guys. Actually, If you women ever contests we're about to do than yes, What are the arguments that have already done that? Did they do that? the same there's more cookies I never asked me then. I just wanted to say thank you, for your part. Have amazing things everything you do and I also know a gentleman mentioned earlier, but I was curious how the names on those suicide note how their related
Well, both my name's were not there, but there's about there's three individuals that all involved warm, possibly with a beacon orchard that the party and probably the incident at the barn with the fatten, whatever there's three hundred those things that were on the last there. There are some out of egg to the case. That way. Yes,. Ah I will say this: actually I'll just go and inside us too. The guy you her on the last part of the pact ass. He told the story about dropping off that guy at that house near tailors, he was drunk. He told me another story and just see knows that the records show between us. I trust this guy? He is somebody who is actually the important and made it very clear,
why he needed to his identity. To be Anonymous, but He told me another story to that. He, owns a store and that some He came into the store about and chosen ten, and it was father and son and the sun pointed at eight. Picture on the wall, and it was the missing poster of terror and he said I saw her burned down there and it first he's working the bag in ITALY. You didn't say rhetoric than has been there for a while in time and It wasn't all later you can. It realises that was pointing it. Terrorist poster in the next week the dad came back and said: o leaves your Mama son last week. He made a point to bring it up is that he is a car wreck. You confuse person when that person, I don't know tell me a story is like.
Nobody means Antoni is it. I felt we While these two things, tell me the same stories and I'll handle know things like that. Like you, you, you reconsider the the suicide note, because that guy that their top about who I can name was pretty much best friends with I got himself so I don't know and it is also small town Eagle now, but it's all Weird and ironic ends is such that it's all just so muddy now, but it is we'll figure out what one data when, last time we surprised someone with flowers? Has it been awhile? Have you ever done in my life flowers and every now, and then I got surprise her with some and pro flowers would still be surprised. Someone to you don't have to have a reason. Now profiles. Would you be twenty percent off any other? You? Next summer rose bookcase or any other ok, twenty nine dollars or more. If you
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Now I thought it was a big bonfire. They believe that they there was. If that's what happened at the that's, why they did it? There were doing those we can never be sunlight. Bows idea just like this is the way you do with incognito or something were nobody knows it's going on. I don't think anybody not again in too much detail by neither Sir but could have been, in our view, the second or third day. So I guess it's safer fell. I think, because its legal question is it possible that you pain and you doctor Godwin Convicts Keynote for trial based on yours, I know you are hired, is expert early investigator early on, given the amount of time has passed the possible that they could be subpoenaed for what they know. Will
You're right to legal question and what it has to do with is whether or not they have any information that personal knowledge that, first and foremost, relish any issue in either trial, whether its regarding both dukes or Ryan, do and then the rest of the question is no does it follow the rules of evidence like a lot of what pain here, is hearsay, its double trouble hearsay and some businesses same with that guy one but the if the best, Idea that I can come up with that would make either these guys potential witness in the cases, if there's a witness who testifies in a trial, the person says a b and c, but they ve talked
and were dark Godwin and they ve said something different. Then they could. These people could be called is an impeachment witness to say where the person told me something different so I think it's unlikely that either one of them would be a witness in the case but again wouldn't, really think, at the crime scene too. Well, does it has it with personal knowledge and whether or not that information that you have is relevant to any issue, Either side was presented the case and does it forward in the rules of evidence? Do you think that maybe the gag orator weather related and all your protest in so far as I'll talk to her on it, That was really is. Ok. You know you? Yes, I mean additional podcasting have having heard the crystal Rogers Jason Alice. I have talked to Roma nicely. You be interested in doing.
It is actually the case. I was very interested in. I don't know, what's gonna happen yet, but yet its pre baffling into me, seems like another. More town was some Shit go and on the need, someone coming here and sure Buddy was going on. Wow. That's why I wanted to do so. Over the last person like yes, I want to say to appreciate that everything you ve done to bring this case to head up of of actually followed it since two thousand by myself, and you guys don't a great work But my question is: can the threefold I wanted to ask in one the Pakistan, you said that the character Sally had a lot to do with bow. Now. They had interactions of. What we actually want to know is a follower of the discussion board. If Sally is actually counselor, lamely, Lily definition, Australia
two if she is and a shared catchy, possibly be a material witness in the trial if it goes to trial. A number three years if she has a councillor in Australia and does involve a bow in this kind of way, what the hell does she do. Accounts lead people to start That is a very good point. Is actually the weirdest story. Once again, Sally the for some I said personally? Massaging the person who had he Conversational bow is a real psychologists in Australia. And then the person that I had died. Second, there conversation I didn't know her. First name was Sally in real life, because use refer jurors to his as doctor. And she's also from Australia, and it just looks Super weird, but you can look them up a different people. They're, both real people and
the real silent I'm talking about- and I think that cover with bow that really happens, and I won't talk too much about that person, but it's still there real that GB, I and others. Paul Sheldon has almost everybody. All that conversation, I'm not the one person who really said ass? She did send me a threat enable is. It is possible. She can actually be a witness in the case of aiming for what he this proposal is about, also could actually be rational. Witness of the problems at once from possible because she interacted with both professional reputation with australian psychological society. I think it would hurt her I mean it was you know, straying Y gotta have my email
I can say that she's offer rocker man was furious when it is not the first time I've got off the rocker or bridges like your problem. Thank you for that. The Elles pain you want to say to them, obviously shown up being here that thing, if not if we do want we want to get the entire team up here. This is just a even a small part of the team obviously resonate recordings he had to leave actually, which I feel really bad. They had to go, but there's many people who are part of the operation in a no one, who cares that needs they all these credits, like all these guys Ito Gary's, one of us to do a People who does make this thing a reality. It's an believable operation, it is, is so seeds and look at this imply. That is not really I'm telling you it's the realists thing, it's so real. It just happen. To be
It is a sound like what sounds in wooden exist like that, if it weren't for all, these people him him him die hold, my brother Mason, my wife Cassie everybody is to be part of this thing is part of, my life is not just something I do on the side, and I super appreciate all you guys support being here and more to do with these and to warn that he'd do they say so. Thank you so much for real and we might get and oversights having a labelling as coming all you guys, I thank you all very much. Like you they for listening guys episode was mixed, mastered by resonate recordings. If you want to
The quality of your pie cast or sort o clock as your own go to resonate reporting stock com. Get your first. Episode produced for free, This episode of recorded at industrious, Atlanta plus city market for two hundred and fifty dollars off your first month office. Rent visit industries office, dot, com, Slash vanished, want to come in the flesh guys. This is my real grandma gonna give earlier recipe the right to live sanders. My daughter, lawless, my grand churn, twelve granted full great grains they face. I make the best cowboy cookies hydrant Robert you ways they should she gave us the recipe, but she left
something out on purpose. It's really weird there, never as good neighbours. Only the map one day for us to find the actual missing ingredient to the recipe is called well thank you. So much for be a morality, these guys so much.
Transcript generated on 2020-01-12.