The media have declared Joe Biden, the winner of the twenty twenty presidential election, but under our constitutional system it turns out that Media don't actually get to pick who the president, Fortunately, we are joined by a constitutional experts. Somebody who was a lot about elections. He will help us understand the nitty gritty and who, in fact will be the president. This is with TED Groups, welcome back to furnish the tag crews, I am knolls senator. I am no constitutional expert. I did not go to law school but I think I am right in saying this. The media dont get to pick the president right thankfully, although Lord knows there try and areas the voters who decide Edie I gotta say. So you,

Meyer filming this on Tuesday night Election day was a week ago we haven't done a podcast since before election day. I kind of feel like Thomas Jefferson and in the musical Hamilton come back and so what did? I miss like a whole week crap what a week this has been. There's never been a week like this in politics in media in life- and and the consequence for the nation are enormous, you know we ve got a lot of messages people Why didn't you do an episode during the election or the day after the election? And I think people sometimes forget you? sitting you a senator, you know if you do have a pretty busy schedule, an end. The and had been changing in real time? Obviously, election night. You add certain cable network calling Arizona, for instance, for jobs,

then it seems like people were walking. That back now seems unclear who's, gonna get Arizona. You you had a lot, it's coming really late in Pennsylvania in with in Michigan. If you had the pole, counting stopping just at ten o clock at night, and then it was supposed to not resume until the morning other reports it resumed in the middle of the night. There's just so much this information, misinformation and eight on the legal front. Obviously there are so many questions, so I know you you have been this actually before you're, a lawyer on President George W Bush is team during Florida recount and the questions of the two thousand presidential election. What or looking at here in terms of president's prompt chances for a second term in terms of the ability to find fraud in.

Philadelphia. For instance, where are we on the legal front? Well I'll start with a radical proposition, which is that elections are decided when the results have been counted and the legal proceedings are over, that that didn't used to be a controversial proposition. You know think back to election night. I was here in Houston that election party with a number friends that night was a great night Republicans were winning. We are winning the Senate. We are winning. How see and President Trump. Why winning re election early on Florida was called for. The president early on Ohio was called for. The president and we were leading. I went home to go to bed about two in the morning in and when we were leading in Pennsylvania and Michigan and Wisconsin I mean it looked like a really strong.

an end, then I suspect a lot of us went to bed. We woke up in the morning and it's like what happened. There are multiple lawsuits all over the country right now playing it There are going to be re counts in multiple states. All of those proceedings have to be concluded before we know who actually will be the winner state by state by state and that's gonna, take in all likelihood several weeks, it's not gonna take, six months, but the litigation is not gonna, be over by to Morrow End and the the election number one, the media to outlets Fox NEWS in April We were really precipitous colleague, Arizona. That was clearly a mistake and I went when I see it.

As calling out Fox for being too anti trump YE, you know somebody's jumped the shark somewhere. I mean that that that that's a problem but the instant the vote total shifted to Joe Biden. We ve seen Surely the entire mainstream media try to engage in an immediate coronation? Big tech engage in total censorship of any view to the contrary, an end, their behaving with this weird I E. Yet you know I mean it's it. It's almost like their persecuting heretics. If you dare say, will lux wait till the litigation is resolved they scream at you, you're undermining democracy. That's naughty! No democracy means if their legal challenges.

You resolve the legal challenges and by the way this happens in elections all the time we see recounts. We see litigation. We see disputes over over if there were votes that were illegally cast. That litigation has to be resolved and- and you know the way it plays out their cases and state court, their cases in federal court cases in state court will be a Jew decade in a trial court. They will. They will in many instances go up to an intermediate court of appeals. They would go up, maybe the state Supreme Court and then the U S Supreme Court can take it from the state system. There will also be cases in federal court that start in federal district court, maybe go up to the court of appeals and they can go up to the Supreme Court. So if you look at Bush verses Gore, as you know my book one vote away, the whole chapter on Bush versus Gore at and it goes into great detail bush.

Versus Gore took thirty six days when we arrived in Florida within days, we had a charge of seven different cases that we're all pending, just in one state justly Florida right, any one of which could cause the presidency, the United States, and it was chaos. We went to the Florida Supreme Court twice, we went to the U S Supreme Court twice and when I say, went to the: U S Supreme Court, I mean brief. The case argued it and got no gaudy written decision from the Supreme Court twice in those thirty six days, well and by the way we also try to full case in Florida trial court. In addition to multiple other arguments, so the court system can operate, but all of us should expect the courts to resolve these claims. There lots of claims a voter fraud, I dont know which claims are accurate and which aren't you don't know which claims are accurate and which aren't that's

We have a legal system. That's that's what courts do and in today's world, where you see you know this twitter allegation that twitter allegation all sorts of things, it's really hard to no art. What really is the state of affairs? Well,. We also allow the legal system to actually here evidence to examine the data, to listen to witnesses, to examine evidence and make factual determinations. That's why we have a judicial system, of course, and the idea that there was no fraud whatsoever seems too very difficult to believe you. You called this outright and I have to tell you I don't mean to flatter you senator, but you are one of the few elected Republicans who actually came out strongly on this specifically in Philadelphia. You have Republican pull watchers show up every election. You got pull watchers from both campaigns. They show up

make sure they're no shenanigans going on republican Pull watchers were turned away. There was that a court order. That said, you have to let the Republican Ball watchers in what happened. They still encountered resistance trying to take a look at these polls. That is outrageous. That is illegal and who knows, if that through an election, we can't know that obviously legal process has to play up, but to say that there is no evidence whatsoever mainly to certify these results and move on and waiting. Even five days is too long and unprecedented. That just seems to be not in correspondence with reality. Well and lets take that component for a moment I've been trying to be very active, both as on on social media and also in on media media,. Engaging in these issues and in leading the fight. It's interesting. The media talking points in the damn talking points on on the Pennsylvania about

observers is not an old, they were in the room. What what they ignore is that they were being kept twenty feet away or twenty five feet away. If you ve ever tried to actually look at a ballot twenty five feet away, you can't see the damn ballot. You are not actually an observer if you're twenty five feet away. Ultimately they went to Pennsylvania State Court and got in order to be six feet away. To be honest, it's hard to observe a ballot six feet away. If you're trying to see are the guy's cheating and that's a second point to understand. It couldn't sound like oh it's a technicality, it's a procedural issue whether there were observers there, but the reason that the law mandates the observers be there is to prevent people from engaging in fraud to prevent people from stealing boats Jim. You look at Bush versus Gore, one of the first,

The Democrats did as they sought recounts in four overwhelmingly democratic counties in Florida, and I talk about in in my book. One vote away. how in the Bush legal team- and I was a young lawyer at the time- I was in my late twenties and was part of it- was an incredible legal team that came together for four George W Bush. We had a big debate about. Ok. Do we counter by ass? four recounts in for overwhelmingly republican can't county. So if they're gonna go seek recounts and democratic counties, does it help us to do get recounted republican counties? We didn't do so. We decided no do not do so and I'll tell you the reason why? Because we believe to a person that in the democratic recounts that the hard leftist partisans would cheat made me sitting there. Those had Chad's they literally we poker them out with her fingernails like if you didn't look,

ago another about four Gore and in what we said. Look our guys won't cheat like. If we do a recounting republican county, it doesn't help because the guys are helping us are going to come up with. Basically the same count that fully, I'm glad our guys won't cheat. Now. Look some observers may say: oh, that's, a pretty artists. In view of things, I can't prove as a conclusive fact that the democratic counters cheat significantly more than the republican do what I can tell you is the reason we didn't seeker recount. The republican counties is that of our lawyers, all of George W Bush is lawyers believe that right, and so we didn't safer, Canada. Is they re candidate? You kept saying the numbers, Gore grow and grow and grow. I mean it if it clearly played out,

the pattern we anticipated and in just four people who think there isn't historical precedent here. Obviously you ve got the bushmeat Gore. You ve got the two thousand recap, but actually your predecessor in the Senate from Access Lyndon Johnson, who obviously went to become president. There is great controversy about his nineteen forty, eight election to the senator, where I think it was about a million votes cast and he will by something like eighty seven votes sooner, with let fewer than a hundred votes and it all came from Box thirteen box. Thirteen, a boxer, pilots from a notoriously corrupt county, the allegations that it had been stuffed. President Roosevelt actually joked about stuffing ballot boxes at the time. This is an american tradition. Unfortunately, it is, there has been significant voter fraud and by the way, in these big democratic sitting, cities like Pennsylvania, say like Philadelphia. Cities like Detroit in Michigan and Troy, they put poster board and covered up the ballot counting

areas to hide them. You know an analogy I use use this weekend on. One of the Sunday shows, I said, listen if someone goes into a bank and shut off all the security cameras. What is the natural inference that leads right. It's not that their intending to do nothing wrong. I mean, if you shutting off the mechanism. for observing it that people naturally say well, there's a reason. You don't want people to see what you're doing, but, but let me say: ok, Inter terms of where we are, I mean a lot of people are asking our: where do we go what's next year? Lemme give you good news and bad news: ok, Gimme, the Good NEWS. First, ok, the Good NEWS. First, there is reason for some optimism, because the lessons

was a weird election with Cove it Anne and you had massive mail in voting in person voting deal. The data show that on election day, the people that went physically to the polls and voted in person that trump one those by significant march. The date also show that in many states on the mail in votes that Biden one those basic in March. So here's the Good NEWS in a retailed or in an election contest litigation in person election day votes are significantly less likely to be deemed illegal right. It right it's it's. It's harder to cheat those votes generally, the county is what it is, and the in person election could point votes, rarely change mail in votes. If you look at recounts, if you look at election contest, some significant percentage of mail in votes fairly, predictably are excluded, as this doesn't meet the legal standards. This is whether,

You know someone in a dead person whether it is someone who didn't sign the thing like me for what we're reason that very state by state, but mail and voters, significantly higher percentage of being excluded. In this instance, mail in voters are predominantly for Joe Biden, so we may well see, as these recounts go forward, a large percentage, abiden votes being deemed illegal than trumped up? We don't know that, but there is reason to have optimism now. Let me give you the flips, ok embraced, for it puts the bad news for the Trump team to prevail. They can't just when in one state that they believe that they got around the table set. So let me give you some of the numbers, because it's this. This is challenging peace, so we're so right now aren't I am using the New York Times. Election results, as well as one source New York Times has bide

with the two hundred and seventy nine electoral lead to two hundred and fourteen. You need two hundred and seventy to be elected president, so it has Biden with two hundred and seventy nine. So the time and called Georgia right now. Biden has a fourteen thousand vote lead in Georgia. We need to pick up fourteen thousand votes in Georgia, hasn't called Arizona right now. Biden has a twelve thousand vote lead in Arizona. Now, let's talk about the states that they have called for for by Wisconsin an electoral votes Biden has over a twenty thousand boat lead in Wisconsin Nevada, with six electoral votes. Biden has over a thirty six thousand vote, lead in Nevada Michigan with Sixteen electoral boats Biden unfortunately has a hundred and forty eight thousand. You leave in Michigan that that's a bigley and then and then Pennsylvania, which is the big enchilada terms, are the most electoral votes of the state's we're talking about

Biden has right now, but a forty five thousand boldly? That is a lot of votes to shift in a recount or a contest litigation. If you look at Florida, Bush versus Gore, the whole course of it. We were talking about a few thousand boats right at the end of the day, George W Bush, one by five hundred and thirty seven votes Rhine fright, the totals in Florida started out much much closer than where these totals are, and if we were talking about one state, you could be more optimistic about what the result would be. In this instance the Trump teams, got win in a whole bunch of states right. I suppose he, even when you hear those numbers, I mean it's amazing how thin sum of Michigan accepted how thin The margins are in Georgia, for instance, or Arizona Wisconsin, even but you know that is, that is very tricky, because Time is running out. I suppose one cause for hope is that we are in

is our year of the universal unsolicited Mallon. So perhaps that gives greater opportunity to flip them, but perhaps I mean that's a lot of votes in a lot of states What you're saying is let the legal process play out. Do not We declare the winner and I will go along with the media, but maybe on top champagne. Yet there is still a long held a climb one. Look there instances. Let's take. There was a county in Michigan that that has publicly admitted that that that there was a what they called a software glitch that shift piglets six thousand votes from trumped abide he now, thankfully they caught it they caught it. Then they did a hand recount undiscovered, wait our results or way off what we anticipated and- and they said it's a glitch this this software is used, I believe in forty seven counties in Michigan. So look if there were six thousand vote shifted now. Forty seven counties that would be enough to try to move the bar

now what the Michigan officials are arguing, however, is that this quote: glitch is idiosyncratic to just this county and that its not present more widely that now. This is an example of there's a reason to be sceptical of their sort of self serving explanation, but it actually is going to take the lawyers proving this in court. It's gonna take right now, and I've been on the phone with the president. I've been on the phone with shared cushion, I've been on the phone with the White House. I have been urging them to bring in a stronger legal team, more serious, high powered litigators and to go make their case at this point, yelling about it and going to change it. You got to go in the court and you got to put on evidence

and and demonstrate to a court a legal basis that the margins we're talking about state by state that portion of the votes. illegally cast and that's gotta be proven with cross examining with evidence and we're not there. Yet. I hope we get there, but that's not an easy task, and it takes. some real hard, careful, diligent work right right. Ok you have not completely thrown me into despair. There is still some cause for hope and obviously will see that play out one the reasons I think a lot of people, one president. Yet reelected is because they are so infuriated at the blob, the deep state, be it. The strait of estate, be you, know, out of control agencies whenever you want to call it- and you know, speaking a vote,

legal questions. I was wondering if you were going to be arrested for murder earlier today, because you even serrated Mr Andrew Mccabe, one of these corrupt officials, who was involved in the entire hoax in the scandals We sixteenth running that election and thereafter it's not getting any player notice. The testimony of Andrew Mackay is not getting any like severance focused on the presidential, but I thought it was extraordinarily telling us what important issues of the past four years and maybe going forward. Could you just take it? a little bit of what happened. Firstly, I will just play a little clip of your grilling. Mister MC game amidst Mackay yesterday on Amazon they see Ben erodes the former deputy national security adviser to President Obama said that, for leaders are already having conversations with Joe Biden quote talking about the agenda no they're going to pursue January twenty. If Mr Mackay, based on that testimony, do you believe Joe Biden is violating Logan ACT,

I am not aware of Ben Road statements her or taken on faith. He said what I read it read. Assuming he's, that quote is accurate and silver. Bade him quote. Is that a violation of the Logan ACT under any plausible theory? I am not prepared to take your statement on state. And I am also not prepared to conduct the legal and now it's alright you're, a lawyer in your answer to hypothetical and court. If it is racks that I am accurately quoting at something. The department of Justice frequently did wrong and in this investigation if that is what Ben Road said, if Joe Biden is talking with foreign leaders right now, does it violates the Logan? Yes or no? I'm not gonna o pine on a hypothetical question about what a bite camp. He s talking with four letters and it doesn't violate the Logan ACT, because the Logan ACT is unconstitutional, which is why it's never been used to prosecute anyone. You authorized using it to go after general plan as part of a political persecution.

If the answer hell, no Joe Biden has not violating the Logan ACT. The reason you won't say it is because that was your flimsy political basis to go after decorated war hero, because you disagreed with politically with President Trump. Well look. The cave was the deputy director. The FBI today was significant because that there has been a conflict, there's been a conflict for a couple years between the cave and James combed his boss. Over whether co me authorized him and directed him to leaked to the press. Homey testified now repeatedly under oath under penalty of perjury, that he did not that he never has that. He didn't Mackay had told the press. That call me at all three eyes, but today was the first time became ever said that under oath, so so that the big deal. It's one thing. Look it ain't a crime delighted the press may not be a good eye.

It may not be honourable or ethical, but it is not. It doesn't carry a prison search term to lie to the press. If you lie to Congress under oath that that is a crime, and so my objective in in in this cross examination was to get. And call testified before the election. I got him on record again saying no, he did not rise Mackay to do this Mackay, but now he, U and talk about a slippery witness boy. This guy he's he's smarmy in political and hates tromp and is a hard core democrat and- and it was up to as I bought in the political persecution of the president, but, finally, after trying to wriggle away repeatedly repeated the repeatedly he sat on the record, yes comin

authorized me and critically. I ended this cross examination by saying Mr Mackay. The FBI has the records to demonstrate whose telling the truth either you're telling the truth or comb he's telling the truth. You can't both be one of use lying. Do you think the F b? I should release the records, whether emails or memoranda. Whenever documents they have to do. If you're telling the truth to vindicate. You too tat show that you're telling the truth that have come, he's telling the truth to vindicate him. Do you think the F b? I should release the materials and Mikhail said? Yes, they should he's the materials will hot negative. Damn I can tell you, I pulled my chief counselor side right after the hearing and set our at. I want you to draft a letter to Bill BAR and the crests re, which we will send in the next day or two. He quoting commies testimony quoting the caves testimony pointing out their direct

in conflict that the FBI has records demonstrating whose lying and whose telling the truth and now Even Mackay is calling for them to be released and I'm gonna ask bar and and re release them now and- and let us know who'd who who committed perjury, because they can't both be true. True one said yes, one said now: it is impossible for both to be testifying truth truthfully- and this is the issue we we hope for. I am in sector state, my pompiers words. We hope for a smooth transition into a second term for the president, but in any case, There is no reason not to get this information out now. You know. You won't get it under a democratic administration, so very important. I thought I thought that the grilling was just refer to watch, and I do hope that we can see the release of this kind of material and- and I do hope that these people are held to account. Speaking of these, these agencies that are out of

RO. I want to get too to mail bag questions first, one from Kim Joe Biden if He is named. President, wants to issue a lot of executive orders that would overturned trumps executive orders. How easy is that to do after the Supreme Court upheld one of Obama's unconstitutionally. Second ordered. Doesn't it make it harder for Biden to overturn trumps e owes if by actually gets elected. That is what, Deal here, we ve always told you know it live by the thank you to border die by the executive order that their easy to overturn, but sometimes the court has shown us that they're not so easy to overturn set so that as a really smart savvy question if we were living in a world of principle and reason the answer to that should be: yes, it does make it harder. Ah, art lemme stepped back and answered a little bit differently.

In any ordinary world, where you're, following the law, a president can issue an executive order, the next president can rescind the executive order and the power to do so, is unlimited now two different question: whether the executive order as legal but the power to rescind and executive order is, is complete and total, and an executive order by the way should not be making law. It is directing the executive. Their executive board is going back to George Washington, but those are instructions from the president to the executive branch. Here's how you are to execute the law, so it's so and that that's an authority Obama abused it by trying to change the law which an executive order can't do the Supreme Court lawlessly in the most agreed just example of it was this past summer in June, the Supreme Court

struck down president trumps revoking Obama's Amnesty executive order and it was John Robertson, the for liberals and John Roberts wrote what I think was a deeply unprincipled opinion where the chief justice didn't it.

youth that Obama had no authority to issue the executive order and they said, of course, Trump can rescinded, but he didn't provide enough explanations as to why so we're gonna call a process file and send it back, and the thing that is utterly and completely hypocritical is the chances that John Roberts holds a Joe Biden presidency to the same standards are zero. It was clearly a pretext to to reinstate amnesty and and its frankly, it's the same pretext, John Robertson. The for liberals did the prior term in the census case. Where the Trump administration was going to ask in the census. Argue: U S, citizen, a question that has been asked for two hundred years: it's been asked over and over and over again and censuses. Are you a citizen? Well left wing activists, don't like that question because they

one how many people are here illegally and Roberts played the same games that will, of course you could ask that question but The memo laying it out, you didn't have good enough reasons, so we're striking it down and saying show Work go show your homework a little more and it was a political game ran out of time and so did D best question that gamesmanship will only apply to Tromp Biden. EL I think, repeal executive orders. I think, if Biden as President able re entered the Paris Climate agreement, if by this president, I think people reinstate many aspects: if not the entirety of the Iranian Nuclear Deal, there's a lot the president can do unilaterally. If Republicans keep the Senate, we can stop the worst legislative things. That's that's also. Something

both to help for now senator. I know you don't want me to bug you about future plans, so I will not, but I felt this was a very important question, so I'm going to included this is from Tommy. If Senator who's ever seeks higher office. Will he keep the beard nothing good senator your answer, damned if I know I'd the beards been I grew up on a whim. I've had fun with it at some point. Heidi is not crazy about the beard, so I so there is some no pressure to pressure to get rid of it. We will see out checks out, I'm with a right now. Senator I would like, on the record I you know, I won't be like Anti Mackay here. I won't try to be easily about my answers. I am fully one hundred percent pro beard. I think, if for the verdict listener If you agree with my position on this, please let us know on Twitter. I think it's right I'd swear. It has lots of Abraham Lincoln via observing it's cool. If I were able to grow beard, I would inform

Leah isn't quite work out on me, but maybe someday in the future. What well? I will say that that the baby face is. It is a good look for you will now. Again, thank you senator. I appreciate that very much and I will I will try to keep the baby face. We will, I am sure, the next time we speak, have a million more developments in this crazy, crazy end to a crazy. is a year in the meantime. I Michael knows this is verdict with tat groups