Since last we spoke, Congress counted the votes of the Electoral College, some members of Congress objected to that same vote, rioters stormed the Capitol, a new president was inaugurated, and a former president was impeached. In this 2021 season premiere, Senator Ted Cruz and Michael Knowles dust off their microphones to break down what the hell has been happening and make a few predictions about what Biden’s America will look like. Plus, Michael welcomes his first son into the world and Senator Cruz turns 50. Welcome back to Verdict!
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
One of the big issues in this whole objection January sixth issue, was what is the funk of the vice president, whose acting as the President of the Senate, what is his function in? counting of those of the electoral vote? Does he have some active role? Is he merely reading them? Does the Senate was the Senate do? What is the house do, and this same issue came up in the compromise of eighteen? Seventy seven, which is you had won the Republican Party, had one view of the vice president's role. The Democrats had another view, depending on which we worked out that could have thrown the election, and so you end up with this bizarre sort of electoral commission that would then forwarding decide the election, that's right in an offence, as I was looking at that initially struck me with just the weirdness of five house members: five senators, five Supreme Court, just as are those like will GOSH, that's that's an odd historical creature, but, as I was looking at the two choices we were facing,
I wanted a third option. Welcome back the verdict with TED crews. I have missed all of you. Thank you. So much to everyone has been writing in asking. Where is verdict? We are back. It's been kind of hectic sleigh was just because of Christmas. Then it speak of children popping out everywhere, mostly in my family senator, I don't think, there's any new kids going on by you and of course the madness that we ve seen in Washington DC, which frankly resembles Baghdad these days all of the law. Downs all of the the heightened tensions, so It's good to see you again, let me say to all our viewers, it's good to be back with you. In addition to everything Michael listed, that has happened. We also had Christmas. We had no years. I turned fifty years old and through and you Michael became a father. Simon John Knowledge, your son came into the world and an end so that that that is is is highly.
Sequential. Let me say, congratulations and and and let me start but but before we I then, to constitutional law in an what's happening in the country. Just ask? How is it being a damn? It is Oh great, that's why I appreciate your mentioning it. Some people dont know that actually work had been keeping the pregnancy kind of quiet and two of the four people to know about it were are you senator and joy. Void of because we were filming that earlier episode, avert exciting was John said, Michael Lead or you are you, father. Yet I forget your father and I said funny: you should ask kind of funny that its you two guys who find at first. But yes, as of a few weeks ago, I am going to be a father wonderful and I have to tell you, were in a really awful political and right now. A lot of the predictions that we have made on this show have sadly come true and there, true in real time and I'm I'm not despondent about it-
because I've got this little bundle of joy and its. I didn't expect to have Chad and emotional reaction to it. I thought would be all intellectual and then I go back to writing or when it podcasting. It's just wondering, its tremendous end as so. It's really great and thank you and thank you for that, populations of mentioning. Well, it is, it is terrifying and all consuming. I still remember we brought both our girls home from the hospital, the absolute fear, these things don't come with instruction man, and I remember highlighted happen alive it. How did I looked at the doctors and nurses said? What who in their right mind, would give us a living human being to take care of. We don't know what we're doing an end. Yet somehow you manage and an end the desperation when your info child is crying and won't stop crying. You will do anything to sue so through this child, and so I actually found with Caroline late at night to three in the morning when she was crying that rock
her and I would put on- I had a Cd Pavarotti opera HO, it for what innocently armor it com and so so you may want to try summer. I have a feeling there may be some opera knows how so cold There are certainly will be on I'll, be singing this endormeur, because it's true, because an italian and means that nobody sleeps and that's what's been happening. You know I, worried that I might fall asleep at my desk today, since, as the sort of days back but fortunately- or I guess, unfortunately, the New is so unbelievably impressed. intense. Obviously we have so much to get you to day. Let's begin with January Sixth, the reading of the electoral college votes at the joint session of Congress. The objection to Actual college votes. The riot that ensued, afterward
you were there, I was not what happened. I think it is helpful to take it back really starting about a week earlier in in the period between Christmas and new year, because we were heading up January, six under federal statue January six was the date where the vice President reads: the Electoral college votes before the House and Senate and where objections can be made from either house members or senator. and coming out a Christmas. A number of house members had made clear. They were gonna, make objections and it wasn't clear if they're going to be at any senatorship a baited objection and end the reason that matters is there's a statute that was passed called. The electoral Count ACT was passed in eighteen, seventy seven and it lays out under what conditions objections can be made. and for an objection to be made.
Be debated on and voted on. It has to be made by one house, member and one senator so, There's not if there's not a senator the object. It is out of order- and you don't have a debate or a vote. If there's one house, Brad one senator, then you go audible, leader two hours of debate in your separate chambers, and a vote on that objection then, and so There were several days. Where was unclear. If any senator to work at a raise, an objection An Josh highly. The senator from Missouri has been much of the news slightly as well. He announced he was going to object. He was going to object to the electors from Pennsylvania that change things because it meant we were definitely going to go and have to vote on objection, we're in two hours of debate and all one hundred senators we're gonna have to vote. I gotta tell you
there was a enormous pressure when, within the Senate, within the republican conference, for no senator do object, leadership really didn't wanna. Take this vote Josh decided he was gonna object anyway. I spent several weeks really wrestling with what's the right thing to do here. What is the principled approach that is consistent with a constitution that is consistent with federal law that consistent with Myra possibilities as a senator and ass. I looked at it. I thought all of the senators really faced a dilemma in that we had to terrible voices? We were gonna have to vote on the objection if we voted. No, if we voted against the objection, that vote would be heard, bye, bye, tens of millions of Americans as saying you don't believe. Voter fraud is real Euro
Believe it serious, you don't believe it significant at an that's just not true that, certainly not true. For me, it's not true for many, if not most of the, publicans that that motor fraud has been a real and significant and persistent problem and it goes right to the heart of the integrity of the election, and so voting no was a really lousy option, but on the other hand I was not willing to- and I think most of the Republicans in the Senate we're not to vote to set aside the results of the election. Just pick the candidate, I was supporting hadn't one billion. That is not a principled outcome either disable GOSH, my guided and so throw it out that that that was not. That was a terrible option. And so ass? I looked at and I spent spent some time studying the precedents and and trying to dig in too well look. This is not the first presidential election we ve had this country is not the first elections
was close. What has happened in past elections? There been objections raised over and over and over again and end in looking through the historical precedent site. I focused in particular on one which was the presidential election. one thousand eight hundred and seventy six one thousand eight hundred and seventy six was a very contentious election between Rutherford B Hayes, the Republican and Samuel Tilden, the Democrat, and it was very close and election. Likewise, there were serious allegations of voter fraud in three different states in in flow in Louisiana and and and South Carolina, and what Congress dead in eighteen, seventy, seven! So right after the eighteen, seventy six election Congress appointed what called it an election commission and in this,
a strange creature. It was a commission that consisted of five house members, five senators and five Supreme Court justices which is really a curious, I mean it's like a winged unicorn, something it's something that that for which don't know of any other parallel in. U S, history, for an entity that is a hybrid entity like that, will that's what Congress did and there is an important precedent precedent set here too. We is one of the big issues in this whole objection January sixth issue was what is the funk of the vice president, whose acting as the President of the Senate, what is his function in counting of those of the electoral vote. Does he have some active role? Is he merely reading them? Does the Senate was the Senate do? What is the house do, and this same issue came up in the compromise of eighteen? Seventy seven, which is you had won the Republican Party,
had one view of the vice president's role. The Democrats had another view, depending on which we worked out, that could have thrown the election, and so you end up with this bizarre sort of electoral commission that would then forwarding decide the election. That's right in an offence, as I was looking at that what it is He struck me with just the weirdness of five house members: five senators Fi Supreme Court justice of those like will gosh. That's that's an odd historical creature, but, as I was looking at the two choices we were facing, I wanted a third option. I didn't like either one of the options and- and so I sat down actually on a plane, South West Airlines I pulled out my laptop and fly, and back and forth from from
he ascended DC and and I wrote what what turn into about a two page statement and and what I did in the statement as I walk through the historical precedents and I walk through the legal, the legal precedents that govern this decision, and I argued we should follow the precedent of eighteen, seventy seven and specifically- that Congress should create an election commission that would conduct an emergency ten day audit and just get eighteen. Seventy seven consider the evidence and make detour nations on the disputed balance. The ten day period was important because ten days. It would have been a daunting task. Had Congress agreed to do it, but but by doing it is a ten day ought it it would be complete before January twentieth, so it wouldn't delay in
duration, it wouldn't delay or impact the peaceful transfer power, but it would Abby a credible, impartial tribunal sitter these very serious claims of voter fraud. Now, after I wrote it thought about just putting the statement out as this is what I'm gonna do, but then, as I thought about it, some more it occurred to me that it would be better. It would be stronger. Ah, if If other senators were standing with me and said, and so this was on January one new year's day. And if we had about I was flying from here and back to Dc. On new year's day, as we had a vote on New year's day, and and so I began. talking to other senators and its I did so. The first senator I saw was John Kennedy and just happened John and he was on the Senate floor and I call John to the side,
and I said: hey: what do you think it about January sex and he was struggling with the heat. He thought the two choices were crappy as well. He didn't like em right and so well, here's this idea have that that that's that's really door number three! If you don't like the two options you ve got maybe, the third option. That is a better option that is grounded in principle in the institution and history and precedent and an eye should it John and I and I said here, I've got the statement Youtube and take a look at it, see what you think he did did he. He said he was interested in trade in the idea and when I pressed to do over the next twenty four hours. I talked to probably fifteen senators. and this was very much one on one. Just just calling my colleagues on the phone with almost all of the phone and ice I'd say roughly an hour, a piece on the phone with them were kind of
comments are hey. What do you think about January sex in areas like? Yes? I don't know what to do. I'm really frustrated and I said well, here's this idea. What do you think of it? Let me send you the statement. You look at it. One entered happening as it is that that again of eleven senators came together, so ten other senators joined me this statement and an end. They agreed that that it was much better option than the other two votes and so we put out that joint statement as a state, from eleven senators that that we were going to jack on January sex. But this is really important. Michael, we weren't objecting say, throw the results out. We want the candidate, we favour to win. Instead, we were objecting. We were using the objection to ass for an election commission to be a fair, impartial, tribunal to actually consider the facts and the evidence and the
claims of voter fraud, which I think what is I've been a much better path to go down than the one we went down will because you know we talked on this show There have been a whole range of fear is about the election and summer, a little more outlandish than others in summer right in front of your nose, I mean what happened, for instance, in Pennsylvania, where that, where the action. Officials violated the state constitution, that's that is the clearest example of irregularities, but you had other irregularities in Georgia and other places as well. So there is this problem this this fear in people's minds that they can't trust the integrity of the electoral system and we ve got mailbag question, saying what we gonna do in the future if we can trust the elections, so it would seem that its in everybody's interest, including Democrats for that matter too shore up some some trust in the system Commission go out- do this for ten days. Is it going to
no throw out the results of Pennsylvania, probably not by two to at least get on the record take these issues seriously and where there were other approaches. To this I mean I know, Senator Holly kind of had his own approach to the The election issues you had this, you release the statement. I read the statement on other centres join onto it and then this riot breaks out and let us stop here, but before we get to the riot, which was obviously a major I an the point you just made is really important. That. going into this election coming out of this election, we have seen over heated rhetoric like crazy on both sides of the political line. The Democrats and the news media and sadly the news media is now just part of the Democratic Party. They are one there talking point there is no vote or fraud, it doesn't exist, for you to say: voter fraud is just It's amazing, you read any newspaper, article n n,
Time, there's a reference to vote or fraud. I think the editors bandaid they put in, which is totally baseless and false, and look voter. fraud has been a persist. Challenge in elections and the media narrative the dozen existing you can't say it exists. weird rewriting history, young Ellison? On the other hand, president trumps rhetoric, I think, went way too far over the line. I think it was. It was both wrecked Some irresponsible because he said repeating I said over and over again won by a landslide. There was massive fraud. It was all stolen everywhere that evidence that the campaign did not prove that in any court and to make it a termination about about an election Based on the evidence and and so simply saying the result, you want, that's not sponsible, and you never heard me use language like that. What I have said is voter fraud is real and winning
examined the evidence and look at the actual facts and in particular what is evidence of how much voter fraud occurred and did it occur in different quantities and ends insufficient states to alter the some of the election that that that would have been them and data the election commission. to assess and the things I pointed out in the Senate floor Roy polling shows thirty nine. Percent of Americans. believe the election was rigged. That's a terrifying statistic, and and and I tried to make the case to Democrats- I said- look you should want this commission, because that's not good for our nation. It's not good for our country, two to go for word with nearly half of the country, believing that our democracy is fraudulent We need to re, establish, faith and trust in the democracy and I think, having
process to consider the evidence and the facts. What what what helped in that regard? Will this I think that these distinctions are so important, as they ve all been blurred, certainly by the media, but even just in the chaos they ve been blurred, but is a different thing on the one and you ve got some people are saying this election was complete. They stolen Trump definitely got more votes than Biden, and I know this hundred percent certainty either We know we don't know that with a hundred percent certainty, but there is another argument that you can make, which is democratic Can officials took away safeguards that protect election integrity and places they did this brazenly in violation of the well and therefore people have come. dreams about the election. Those are those are different. Statements. I understand how they relate to one another, but it does seem important to get this on the record and hash it out. I think that's exactly right I'd, so so, let's go back to January six. So the way this All the senators gather on the floor of the Senate and then we walk
over the house together, we walk over in a procession across the capital to to come to the house floor and end with care we were kind of spread out. Normally everyone's on the house floor of the house, members and senators with covered protocols, they had p really spread out to the house members up in the gallery whether they would normally be and what happens that the vice president goes through and opens the envelopes of the votes from the electors in alphabetical order and and reads them. And ask if there is any objection and so the group of eleven that had come together, I spent a lot of time between January, one January six talking to that group of eleven and and trying to keep, coalition to gather asking folks are what what's the right path here? What we agreed to do was of joy, on the first of the contested states, and so that was Arizona, justice, alphabetical, so Arizona of this stuff,
it's where there were significant claims of a voter fraud. Arizona was the first of those and so we start worrying about we're. Gonna object on Arizona and use that, as a vehicle the debate and lay out why we should appoint an election commission. So I made the objection for Arizona. Did it by POGO Sar whose and it merits zone congressmen objected as well There was one senator and one house near there actually I think there were six or seven senators who joined my objection. All eleven intended to, but not everyone actually physically got to sign the thing, so some of it is actually just mechanically like theirs, reaction that you have to sign and it was kind of funny like we couldn't find the paper for a little while ago, there were senators like hey. I want to sign the objection and its Go well, the house members have got it, we gotta go, find it and so
six or sell other senator joined my objection. We go back to the Senate for two hours of debate. and it is alternating back and forth. Democrat Republican. And so I get up and lay out the bay and you're only last five minutes. I have five minutes to lay out what it is, I'm seeking which important because the media refuses to to acknowledge. This was not to set aside the results of the election, but was to have the election Commission appointed. I present the those remarks we go back Fourth, James Lansford Republican Centre from Oklahoma, who was one of the eleven, were part of the part of the group that that it put out the joint statement, G, aims was standing speaking. and while he was speaking, we notice a commotion, an answer. Secret service agents come in and they
the vice president. Out of the presiding chair which, which was, really odd. More all kind of look around gonna is going on and and and James is still speaking, and so they grab Chuck ground. Leaves. The president protest is the most senior senator in the Majority Party and so graphically goes and take the seed and we're all gonna like ok, what would happen to the vice president's? Let nobody knows at that point. What's happening. and then in a minute or two later, police officers come in and they interrupt the proceedings And they say lock the doors, and so we see James, stop talking, and then they suspend the procedure on the second floor and the police officers come in and say closer all of the doors to the Senate chambers, their doors around the bottom, close the doors up top around the Senate gallery. And their yelling. I mean it's there's an urgency, theirs
get everyone in here. Everyone sit in your desks. They're, bringing the reporters who were in the hallways, their rushing them in the gallery there were a number of staff members who were back in the back areas they rush them all under the Senate floor. They kind of cluster in the back of the Senate floor and the police, officers lock all the doors and physically stand guard and end. You know where all areas pull it out, their phones and yellow. Try now what s going on and what kind of hearing snippets and we here, ok, there's, there's a riot there's an attack on the capital, but Very much fog of war, no one's really sure exactly what's happening, Were there, I think, probably about twenty minutes it felt like, on the second floor there telling everyone stay there, and then the capital police made the determination. I guess the rioters restarting
close to the Senate floor and and determined that was no longer a secure location and They gave an evacuation order. They said everyone get out. They said you need a good get out. And move now and so all the senators, the staff, the reporters we all exits and Are they directing you at this point? There saying yes go out that door go this way? Yes, yes, they are telling us exactly where to go and look the Senate. You know their lot that are not spring chickens, and so there are some some senators and their eighties, who are not the most mobile folks and they're, trying to evacuate and the cap police are saying move quickly. There, there saying strong. There saying it was pretty tennis, and so we accept, they move us to a secure third location. So away from the Senate chamber
and so we're all together. All the senators are to gathering in a secure location and were there for the next several hours and were watching tv at this point, we're all on our phones were seeing what's going on and were horrified, as we see terrorists, assaulting police officers, tragically murdering a police officer We see a violent assault on the capital. We see terrorist breaking onto the floor or of the Senate Chamber and and and the floor of the house and all of us are are horrified by. We're watching I will say where we in the secure location we were there somewhere. put on CNN, and so you could see Jake tap on CNN, referring to everyone who had objected as this Addition caucus right right, which goes back
it. Just the shameless propagandist that journalists are but but that's trump is broken. Cnn Trump is broken journalism We're all watching were all obviously deeply concerned. Capital police is pressing back capital polices, We take the capital secret services, engage DC polices and is engaged in southern concerted law enforcement effort to retake the capital over the next couple hours? There are a lot of different discussions among senators. I brought the group Levin together, we gonna huddled in the back and Anna gonna, just ass Look at what are you guys? What should we do now This was obviously- when anticipated a terrorist attack on the United States capital? What should we do, and there was
disagreement at the group on a kind of you know any time you get a group of eleven senators, you just let everyone talk because they're going to anyway, you're, not gonna, snapping at right. Maybe at the same time, but utilise trial. What do you think? What do you think my view is I said, listen. I think we need to continue what we're doing, and I do not believe that we should let a violent mob of terrorist, intimidate the United States Senate right. We should follow through what we are fighting for election integrity. an independent election Committee Commission to protect the integrity of our election? That is a good and principled and right outcome. And there are several senators and well maybe we should stop because of the riot. I said: look: why would you let the rioters win? Why would you change your behavior. As terrorists have at tat have attacked the cap. Will it would seem also to grant the premises
while certainly have CNN, but also valuable breaking into the capital which, as you know, when you hear this from sedition caucus. What what is being told is that it is said issues. It is undermining of the american constitutional order to raise an objection and to call for an electoral commission- and I thank you. I find it very well. There is not only precedent for this, but the the art Whether or not people wanna say it's. Why to do this or its unwise. I support this right on support this. Surely it is the case that shoring up support for our electoral system. Ensuring trust in that system is the opera of sedition. It is attempting to restore some faith in the american com. Fusion or whatever. think about it. Practically you, you have to at least say that if you, then after the right, say: okay. Well now, I'm and pull my objections. Isn't that grant The premise that the whole thing was seditious in the first place. Yet look at anchor,
right. That's that's one of the reasons that then I think we thought it was a bad idea. If you know the point you just made, I think it is really important which is the forum that we were having this debate the floor of the United States Senate. Is the exact right place under the constitution under federal law to have this debate? That's actually It in our constitutional system, how we resolve differences of opinion over over legal issues, over policy issues over over differences between as we debate the Senate is, is supposed to be the world's greatest deliberated body size ending and making an objection on the floor of the Senate is operating with in the constitutional Estimated is the antithesis areas, the complete opposite.
of settling disagreements through violence and terrorism and rioting. An assault, and you know the Democrats right down. So in the wake of this, this terrorist attack. We ve seen the Democrats trying to go after everybody, and I got a saint Michael where we all right now. It reminds me of the end of every godfather movie. You could think of all Three, the godfather movies, the end of the movie, they said all the debts you right away. And they eliminate all their enemies. That's was the Democrats are trying to do now. So so are they trying to destroy Donald Trump, yes and their trying with all their might to destroy him. But but he's not the only time, There certainly are trying to destroy me. They're trying to straw, every conservative they're trying to destroy every Republican and there really trying to say that this
every five million Americans who voted for Donald Trump are all bigoted, racist, hateful, Cd Yes, insurrectionists terrorists coming, they they are trying Rob Emmanuel famously you? Never let a good crisis go to waste right and an and we're seeing both for damage it's in the media trying to operational eyes that and I use this attack as an excuse to go after every one You know one of the most amazing hypocrisy is we don't have to go very far back in history to find violent riots occurring with the active encouragement and celebration of democratic politicians, not
by the way, Senator not just the active encouragement celebration which you saw from people like Maxine Waters, which you saw from people like Hillary Clinton, which you saw for media figures like Cuomo who said protests don't need to be peaceful, but they also provide material support. So the President Kabila Harris Posts, fundraising link to bail out violent rioters in Minnesota. Now, all of a sudden, I know that I'm not supposed to mention that sort of context. It's called what about ISM were some nonsense. I am pleased to see them rats or condemning political violence. Now, where were you when you were providing material support for violent its across the country, Michael, that is exactly right in and listeners a verdict will will remember that we have spent the past year talking at great length,
about Antigua about being a lamb riots, about police officers murdered by and teeth and be a lamb terrorist, about stores being being looted and burned to the ground, about police cars being firebomb and when dimming unequivocally. Violence is always always always wrong and it doesn't matter if its left wing or right wing or well wings at all and and there's a consistency, in what you said, NICE said, which is that it. American has a right to peaceful protest. You have a right to speak. You have arrived to stand out in the screen street and say whatever your views are well, they're right or idiotic. You eat in the first amendment protection you're you're right to speak, but nobody has a right to commit acts of violence and, and I've been unequivocal, condemning violence. All of the Democrats calling for my head right now
spent an entire year. Apologizing for celebrating violent terror Stan rioters burning American Citys because they happened to agree with her politics and as you noted we're saying and let's, let's bail the criminals out afterwards. I think to be consistent, say, violence and terrorism is wrong. Peers, the end and anyone who is attacked the capital oughta be fully prosecutes. They ought to go to jail for a long time. A I think fair and- and I actually I am pleased to see that some of the Less right wing Republicans are not really falling for this trick that I think the media are pulling here and Democrats are pulling, but I repeat myself your car. Senator Mitt Romney, who is who is not the most? I win a member of the republican Clock ass. He came out and said you are raising perfectly legitimate questions and objections.
I was pleased to see that, but I think the point you are making here on the on the end of the godfather everyone settling scores. I think it's really important and it gets to something even sort of beyond January six that we ve been talking about fork, months on the show, which is Joe Biden, talk like a moderate, but the Democrats are gonna go for broke here. They now have unified government. We are now. What is it that the third day of the binding administration. I suppose that were recording this, and we have have not seen meek mild, a unifying Joe Biden we are seeing, the Democrats putting their their pedal to the floor. The car, don't, I think, that's right You know we had the inauguration on January. Twenty at that I was there at the inauguration. I been it's. The third inauguration I've been to now is a senator. I was that Obama's second inauguration. I I was a trumps inauguration and now binds inauguration and I was sitting up there on the platform and and
and I actually thought Biden gave a good speech. I am glad that he. made it a very explicit call for unity. I think that's beneficial. I don't think he's parties interested in listening to and I don't think they're interested in you they're dead. They don't wanna he'll. They want What everybody dead I mean. I make another movie references, it's it's like you know, Al Capone Untouchable, I know him. I want dead him dead when his family. And we also saw even though Biden Rhetoric and look the another- the inaugural speech had had some partisan jam They were pretty nasty, but it had some important points. Else to let's come together, which I was glad to hear him say that was combined with He then returned to the oval office
and sign the stack of executive orders that were anything but uniting anything but moderate they were radical. They were stream. He shut down the Keystone pipeline, destroyed in thousand jobs. Eight thousand union jobs boom with a stroke of a pan gone ordered that that that construction of the border wall be halted immediately or executive amnesty and came out with a radical immigration plan which which of course, the democratic supporting to to citizenship to tens of millions of people here illegally. Yet of the universe same behind? All of these issues is: is there just hammering american workers that that the working men and women that first day in office Joe Biden and is pan we're just destroying jobs and that's not a moderate. It's not a unifying agenda, it is instead the wish
list of the far left- and then you and I have talked about for a year- that I think that's where the Democratic Party is- is their captive to the far left. The first wave of executive order certainly suggested, something that I found even more troubling I eat, then the Keystone pipeline, or these other kind of economic issues where you kind of New Joe Biden was gonna, go there sooner, probably rather than later, but on day. One they eat interest, get rid of eleven thousand jobs. With a stroke of the pen, he seemed to get rid of the women's bathroom seem to get rid of women's rights, now I'm sure this will be litigated Reno for for years to come, but he signed an executive order saying that boy the right to go into the girls room and boys have the right to play in girls sports. We, no, that the left is there? you would imagine that any kind of moderate Democrat would either put that issue to the side or but put push it well off into the future it doesn't seem to you as it seems to me that by
dressing back that kind of a radical idea. Day. One he's signalling there Gonna be no moderation live. I think that's right. I think they ve told the radicals. You get your wishlist and in their view, by the way, is what you just said is no longer acceptable? You will be I wish you will be cancelled. You will be censored that than that that they want to eat if, if you're, if you think that your girls sought dream on, have girls on it and not people who were born biologically bail. The view The radical left is that is verboten. That is. Were not allowed to have that you you're not allowed to say it and it ended bigoted discriminatory. If you do right right, you know that I now who's drive and the train and abide administration I wanted dig in, I'm in the executive orders were were scary. They were
hypocritical. There was one worries, Joe Biden, signs, a mask mandate for federal lands, and then he immediately goes and doesn't where a mask on federal lands, because there's one one set of rules for Thee and one set of rules for me if you're in that sort of liberal elite but I want to get beyond the e owes into some of the day. You worries that we had before the election issues like at mass amnesty. I guess we saw that in the executive orders issues getting rid of the filibuster issues like possibly at new states border we go and Washington. see I mean these or the the kind of issues that could destroy the rub. CAN party at the national level for ever from and that will require some legislative work, so that'll take place in the Senate I'll take place in the house. What is your view on the likelihood and the time line of those kind of war,
case scenario policies. Well, the big first step is whether or not the Democrats and the filibuster to do that. They they would have to exercise what's called the nuclear option. The Senate is fifty fifty there Democrats fifty Republicans any tie Kamel a Harris, the vice president breaks. So it is The narrowest democratic majority possible right now at least Joe Mansion Democrat from westwards yeah is saying that he won't, Support ending the filibuster, a huge step, one question is: does Joe actually hold that position. right as we ve talked about on on verdict before I am sceptical that he will I think, we'd chuck humor puts the thumb screws to him and then with tumor. I'm not sure
some screws, if our figurative, they may actually be literal thumb screws. I'm not sure mansions gonna hold the line, but it's a dramatically different world if he does, because the most radical policy ideas from the left if they and the filibuster they can get em done if they dont end the filibuster, the most radical legislative ideas, at least are going in so, for example, making DC estate if they and the fair, Bastard they'll have the votes to make DC estate. If they don't, they won't, because republicans are not gonna go along with that, packing, the? U S, Supreme Court, if, and the filibuster. I believe they'll packs a court that the lad for new justice to the court. If miraculously they then only the filibuster, they won't have the votes. Republicans won't go along with that.
if they don't in the filibuster, wish were still gonna, see really really bad policy over the next two years work in it. a horrible executive policy, regulatory policy that they can do just within the executive branch We will see, I believe, a horrible tax bill. they're going to raise taxes on every body. It's gonna be massive, it is gonna, be driven by the Socialists left and, and then, with the filibuster, if he remembered the way, Republicans cut taxes and twenty seventeen there is a procedural vehicle called budget reconciliation which you can pass attacks. Using reconciliation and it can't be filibustered. So with fifty one Democrats, can pass a massive tax increase. I think that's gonna happen. I'm gonna fight against it, but it's gonna happen
immigration, I'm very, very worried they gonna do terrible things on the executive side, but they're gonna push immigration legislation. If we keep the filibuster. Immigration is the one area where they could get. Ten Republicans to join with went the gang of eight and twenty thirteen, which I thought tooth and nail against, and we stop they got. I think I think was sixty eight senators voted for the gang of eight right right. So there are definitely some members, the republican conference who were Let me go along with some terrible immigration policy. I hope that doesn't happen. I expect that to be a vigorous, legit, the battle- and I and I am all in stopping a ass of amnesty plan. That is Contra. to the rule of law and grotesquely unfair to american workers,
the ancillary question to all of this is: do they have fifty votes and the filibuster and and the only Democrat who who is said anything suggesting he might not as mansion. So it literally, if you want to pray for something tonight pray for spying, fortitude in in Joe Mansion and for him being quick enough to avoid shimmers thumbscrew will there. There is one thing that I think hopefully derail some this awful legislation and its it's funny that that this week the thing to do it, but senator it. It feels like ground talk day on this podcast Time last year we launched the show we launched during impeachment now, No, his history repeats itself. First is tragedy, then, as far as we are once again in the impede and of done tromp. Who, for those of you who haven't been watching the news recently
is no longer the president, but there is it's going to be an impeachment trial to remove from office, the president who is no longer in office, Presumably, this guy I cite, as this could derail some of the year, the Senate time and focus, I truly I have no idea why This means I didn't know that you could impeach a president who is no longer in office, I still I know that you can. You are institutional scholar and a practitioner. legislation is going on in the centre right now. What on earth is happening. Well, the Democrats or help
I'm going forward with impeachment and so we're doing yet another impeachment? The house is already impeach Donald Trump, the Senate. They decided today that the trial is going to happen the second week of February, so there's going to be a couple of weeks for each side to get in their legal briefs and then the trial will commence the second week of February. I think it's a mistake. I think it is petty. I think it's, the vindictive.
An antelope tromp has left office. He's no longer president at this point there simply exercising their primal rage. They hate the man so much an inner you think of the challenges facing this country. I mean we ve got a global pandemic whip tens of millions of people out of work. We have a lot to be doing rather than looking backwards and and and fulfilling the Democrats fury and hatred directed a trump. But but that's that's where they're gonna go. I don't believe you can it be convicted to convict him, take sixty seven votes out or think that'll happen, and- and I imagine our next pod gas, maybe our next couple will be talking about different aspects of that body.
But I think this is just this- is the Democrats with a giant middle finger not just to tromp but to everyone who voted forum that air there saying screw you dare to everyone on the other side, you know trying to even figure out what the argument is here for impeachment cause. I guess they're gonna charge him with inciting awry, for inciting an insurrection or whatever, whatever language they want to use. Now, of course, President Trump- Do you think of his actions between the election and January? Six on January sixty did say, be peaceful right, don't don't be violent and while this right was going on, he said, go home, be peaceful, don't do this so I don't see how they're going to get him on that count. Really They totally changed the definition of insurrection, but beyond that, I just have the constitutional question: can can you in? each. Can you convict
president who is no longer in office. So that's actually that turns out to be a complicated constitutional question and the answer is not a slam donk on either side. It is is an open question and there are serious scholars on both sides of the issue. If you look at the text of the constitution, their support both ways so, for example, the constitution provides The chief justice shall provide a shell preside for the impeachment of the president's. Well Donald Trump today is not the president the United States, there is only one, the president at any point in time. That's why has
the definite article d write and the President today is Joe, but so one of the consequences of that is is when the trial happens in February. I I expect and imagine John Robert will not be presiding, because Trump is not the president, if you look at the history and the president's actually in the U S, whether you can impede whether you can try. Someone after they have left the office has been hotly debated. Four hundred years, it is the Senate has the houses peached in the Senate has as considered proceedings for officials who have left off areas historical precedent there within the EU,
of art is late. Impeachment says what it's called. If you look at british common law and end, the practice of impeachment in in great Britain that there were precedents, therefore laid impeachment as well, for people who are out of office being impeached after the fact. And so there there is a either. a reasonable argument that it is permissible. The counter to that is is the language. In the constitution, it is focused principally that the objective of peach minister removes someone from office is to get to get some one out of office, if it if they can no longer carry out the role or or the job, consistent with the responsibilities and the two and, of course, the product that is high crimes and or misdemeanours which we
talked about a lot under it. Someone has already left office getting them. Office has already happened set, so the Central objective of impeachment is already satisfied. I expect the question of whether you can impeach a president after left office to be vigorously debated. I'm sure trumps lawyers will argue at length set. You cannot I am sure the house's lawyers will argue at length that you can and none of that dissuade chuck humor he's going ahead. The Democrats are all going ahead. All of them will vote to convict and I think on the question of whether you can impeach a president. is in office. There will be senators who arrive on on both sides that issue. Well, I have a conspiracy of my own. That CNN is putting all of these senators up to this trial because, even though they wanted Trump out of office, they really
him for the tv ratings for they just by, even though he is gone out of the white. I want to keep him and in the national picture, this This brings us to the question that is certainly on my mind. I think it's on every his mind. It was sent to us actually mailbag question from Margo question is So what now we arrived at the worst case scenario: ride demo The house of the Senate at the White House, where do we go from here? What practical steps can conserving take to combat all the leftist policies already being enacted. it's it's a bad situation and one of the things that made it much much worse was the outcome in Georgia. So, on January, fifth, we had the two Senate run off and I went to Georgia three times in December and January painting on the ground campaigning to try to hold those seats. You join me for free. I saw you rallies throughout yet look. I said at the time.
I'm the Georgia Senate races worthy most consequential Senate races of our lifetimes? I think that's right and and if we look at what happened on January Fifth, we now have the election results and we see what happened, which is republican turn out was down, Democrat showed up, they were unified, they pissed off, they hate Donald Trump and they all showed up in mass and Republicans and- and we tried to- energize votes, but Republicans were demoralized. They were dispirited, they were frustrated the results in the presidential election and Republican stayed home and and I was one side shows up at the other side. Stays home you're not contravene. we have you know John Madden, his sports sports analysis. Where were you I had no say things like they eat you, Is it if one team scores more points and the other team they're gonna the game. It's it's true show me the flaw. Yet you know with
with that same John Madden inside, if sides motor show up and the other side's voter stay home right. They're gonna win the election, and so we're gonna have to very difficult years, What now is is we keep fighting for principles that are right and true, and just it means that we spend the next two years trying to stop policies that will hurt our country. Try to stop policies that will destroy individual liberty. Try to stop policy that will destroy the constitution and bill of rights? Where saying you know for food,
here's. The media wanted it to be all about personality. Do you like Donald Trump or not? Do you like his tweets or not? It was just it was. You know it was a reality, tv, completely divorced from policy or substance or anything concerning our lives. Now, with the radicals in charge, we're going to see their bad policy. That is an opportunity to make the case to millions of Americans to two young people and hispanic. African Americans and suburban moms that that these policies of the socialist left are really really harmful, and I think we need a makes use these two here's to make that case and then we're gonna win and twenty two we're gonna win in twenty four. We had elections coming up, we gonna make it through these two years and why?
thing. To draw some good news from some solace. Is politics historically tends to be a pencil swings one way and then it swings the other and in what causes it to swing. The other is the party in power, particularly if they get unified powers. The Democrats have They almost invariably overreach. They go too far. They two extreme and the american people don't like it. They swing back the other way. I think that's what the Democrats are going to do now. That suggests that twenty twenty two should be a very good election and twenty twenty four should be a very good luck now could reply can screw it up. Yes, said and the easiest way for us to screw it up is here. play civil war within the Republican Party. Where black and spend the next four years trying to kill each other instead of trying unify and and when the elections. I hope that doesn't happen. I'm gonna try to try to do it
they can to prevent it from happening. But that is a risk, but the Democrats overreaching as a factor that that that should do should set up a very good election and twenty two in a very election. Twenty four. I think so all great points, but in particular this idea about the civil war, among Republicans, cause if, if the left able to really divide the Republican Party, that's kind of their best hope. I mean, I think they ve frankly already over reached with the executive orders from day one, but it's also. I was very pleased to see your colleague, Mitt Romney, come out and be supportive of believed the constitution, but also supportive of of you and others of your colleagues who may be a little more on the conservative side. Cannot I appreciated met, saying that that that that was that was gracious and and and helpful of him to say, yeah an You know if there can be some unity from republic I agree that you know them. The map is look.
In good that there, the climate looks good, assuming we can ensure election integrity, which was obviously a topic. We talked about a lot today vetoed it could could be a good year and in twenty twenty two, but all of that of course, begins now and even twenty twenty four bit begins. Now I have to move to have a different topic, a disturbing topic senator this is from Dominic Senator did you at least chuckle. When trucks rumour had his Friday and slip on the Senate floor. Instead, the trump caused an erection I'll, just say it. I didn't. I want to know the family shot, but the Senate Majority later said it so I'll, say it well, look I mean chalk is is really really excited about beings majority later and Anna, and I think he he showed excitement to the world. Yes, yes, I I chuckled heartily and
there are times when the Senate is supposed to be this August, deliberative body, but there are other times where it's a junior high and yet I have to say this- that mental image, I could have gone my entire life with it without ever having at my mind- and I I really of my life- was complete without ever once having that image. Yes, for those listeners by the way who don't know a Freudians slip is where you say one thing but mean your mother, it just to give you some context fora for what what happened there? I'll show myself out otherwise, Galen wants to know this to be the last question before we go design it with. We ve got a little longer today, but senator I missed you so much. There was a lot to catch up on over this past. or even little more than a month ago, to know. What are you we're priorities top priorities for twenty twenty one, and do you think the g opium
We keep it together. Do you think we're gonna fracture, stop bad policy and win hearts and minds so. I sat down with my son, a team and I've said: look where it a very different posture. You know if you look at my time in the Senate, so I've not been in the Senate just over eight years and first four years I was in the Senate, Barack Obama was president. We saw a lots of bad policy coming from the White House and- and I viewed my job as leading the loyal opposition, doing everything I could to stop policy. That would hurt twenty nine May and Texans at heart to countries starting January twenty seventeen we had a republican president in Office Donald Trump. I agree with him on many things. I disagreed with him on some things, but we spent the next four years. I worked hand in hand,
President Trump trying to deliver big policy wins for the american people? I think we did. I think that if you look at the policy record of the last four years, it is remarkable that was a very different posture because we work trying to fight to stop desires. Policies. We were. Instead, I spent those four years a lot more time sitting in in conference room, other senators hammering out legislation and trying to try bring Republicans together, or to get fifty Republicans too. Yes,. And we delivered some really big winds. I've already said My team down and said you know what were were back in the first four years were back in the boat of stopping back, policy. Now we have less leverage than we did back there because then we had a republican house. We don't now so
I'll use every lever, I've got to try to stop bad Paul see, but we're going to see a lot of bad policy over the next two years, which means that winning hearts and minds explaining why these policies are so harmful, bringing them home and connecting with people. And yet a verdict. Listeners are educated, informed and in aged on the issues, and so a lot of what verdict is gonna try to do is give you the tools when you're talkin family around the dinner table when you're at the watercolor, a worker at school, give you the tool
to understand what's going on and and why these policies matter, and I think that's how we bring the country back and I M just look as I travel around lot of people. Stop me really worried, really dismayed. You know what are we going to do and I say: listen, it's gonna be a rough two years, but will make it through it. America is strong and resilient. Our country is strong enough to make it through this and and it's gonna take each of us fighting to make sure that happens. It will and it will take everyone listening to the show. We really appreciate it if you wouldn't mind, leaving us off Store review would be very helpful. If you would, scribe, while we're still on palm gas taps for now hope. I hope they don't take us all we will be back much more quickly than we were over the past a month or so christmases over New year's is over. We are a whole new political universe and in some ways, though, as we look forward to impeachment, it seems
like so much more of the same, we will we will dig into what's going on and look forward to the future senator. Thank you very much and Michael Knolls. This is a verdict with TED crews.
Transcript generated on 2021-08-17.