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Dot com, slash WTF for free trial and when you're ready to launch when you're ready to launch use the r WTF to save ten percent off your first purchase of a website or Dell. Many, let's do the show. All right. Let's do this. How are you what the what the alright let mark. You know I shouldn't be mispronouncing, my own name, but guess I'm Mark Meron today and is my podcast wtf, how you doing mark pretty good mark there. You go what's mark up to I guess, he's doing a show without you without who, without mark so Mark yup, I

I say today on the show sort of unique show for us. I think it is. I guess in a way, maybe not I can talk to anybody, but Rick Baker is the make art is genius sees the make up artists that all the other make up artist. Look up to he's done all of this stuff. We worked the exorcist a bit. He did this amazing thing. I remember when I was a kid, the autobiography of Miss Jane Pittman. He did some work on star wars, he'd the howling. He did drone with Cronenberg. He did two or three king Kong's. I think you did the the dino DE is King Kong, and then he did Peter Jackson's King Kong and then he he did you the other one. What's that one called mighty Joe mighty Kong Mighty Joe Young. Do not involved in makeup. He did. He did how the Grinch stole Christmas, the nutty professor movies. He met him stuff, the guy is the guy he's a fucking genius,

there's amazing huge to book set out that covers entire life in pictures and improved it just phenomenal and I'm not like you know me, I'm not a fantasy guy, but I've seen most of those movies it was kind of an interesting opportunity. I'm glad I took it, so you will hear me king to Rick Baker in a few. So couple of email. I'd like to address. Perhaps can I this is the subject line episode. One thousand and sixty three chocolate covered, coconut cookie snacks hi there? I was just listening to Mark's opening monologue of episode, one thousand and sixty three when mention the vegan snacks for Woody Harlson. That Frank had left behind the quote: chocolate coconut cookie snacks, on quote as you can, from my email address, I work for me's organics, an organic coconut, cookie and treat company based in Ithaca, NY I was hoping you could tell me if the snacks mark mentioned in this episode in fact Amies product's pictured below and if so,

if you like them, would you like us to send some more for mark to enjoy and share with this podcast guests now? right at the gate like Is there a lot of competing chocolate covered coca, cookie things that seems like four words: the only that? Wasn't right on the money was snack right, so I am going. That you thought that, like there was a question, it's like, I don't know if he talking about our bites or not, I mean we make the chocolate covered, coconut cookie bites, but he might have gotten our competitors. The makers of the chocolate covered, coconut cookie, snack, those It wasn't easy Demi's chocolate covered, coconut cookie, bites, not snacks our snacks, but you got it right and this is, even a paid plug. I know I think I should have anymore

as good as they were. I appreciate your offer, but I don't want them in my house. Is that is that mean very good. I love them. I love them. Don't want him in the house. That's how that goes I think, it's also important that I just say this at least once a show. President Donald Trump is a scumbag he's, a morally bankrupt duche bag he's a week piece of shit and it's like it's just name calling, yes, it is, but I've grown to believe that that way, I did not just make a political statement. I think it's time to reframe the conversation here's what it is that wasn't political that was observational, that the regular person hey make an observation about this guy doesn't matter even what he's doing like? Let's say: hey that guy's name is Don An he's selling cars that guys a fucking scumbag he's at morally bankrupt fuckin', corrupt douche.

Don you just having that first reaction to it. I don't even know that guy so that is the regular reaction. So that's observation, not political just happens to be the President anybody who saying like he's doing the right thing and he's a good guy, and we really love him that delusional see there's difference between neither or political One is observation: Ull, the other one is fucking nuts like nuts, I'm not at the upper tier. They have their own reasons for doing things because they don't live in the world with the rest of us. I'm just talking about us, there's observational comedy, and delusional defensive reactions to that here's. Another email, hey Mark, subject, line kid Havers response. I appreciate you apologizing for hurting some people's feelings on calling people. Kid have hers, but you are literally the only prominent voice in my life that doesn't make me feel bad for not having kids actually makes me feel good about it. Every

commercial, every political speech, every job pitches always think about your kid. Well, I don't have any and I'm still a person that wants to matter. I just want to say thank you for being a voice for the children thanks. Yeah. I appreciate you calling me out on that being considerate to people that made the horrendous mistake to bring children into the world and that come out right, you're right I should apologize for who I am, and I was just trying to be, and you know good luck with your kids and you and me a Carlos, the guy wrote the email. You know it's pretty comfortable, isn't it nice. Are you feeling pretty free today? You were about your and now you're, not is the yeah? Oh, you don't have one. What about the future? I know I'm probably going to be dead Youtube. Carlos yeah, wow, half, breathe easy but anyways. I hope everyone's kids are ok, and and

sorry, I don't want to be Graham, but but I think Carlos is right. I don't need to apologize for him, but I was just trying to be respectful where yeah with square space. Are you anywhere with it 'cause? I mentioned it earlier sponsor today by square space and whether you're a restaurant owner, artist designer a lawyer, even a podcaster, whatever you're doing you can show it off with square space, it's a new business. It is, and maybe just looking for an easier way to sell stuff you make. Maybe you your podcast to play right on the home page of a beautiful new site. That's what did when we made WTF pod com using Squarespace square space is the tool to use to make a website using templates created by world class designers. You concussed it's just about anything with. Just a few clicks square space does all e commerce options. You need to sell stuff and time analytics to help you grow your site. Everything is, optimized for mobile right out of the box and there's nothing to patch or upgrade ever

buying domains as simple annual get. The help you need with square space is twenty four slash: seven award winning customer support had to squarespace dot com trash WTF for free trial and when you're ready to launch use the for code WTF to save ten percent off your first purchase of a website or domain that square space, dot, com, Slash WTF, offer code WTF, before I get too wrapped up in whatever it is, I'm going on about Nick Tosches is dead, Nick tossed the writer former. Yes, on the show I talk to Nick and two thousand and fifth, it was very important to me to track him down and talk to him we did it at a hotel in New York. Sort was a difficult guy to find. Is a bit erratic bit at times a very unique, a very dark type of guy, but very cynical but that cutting and smart dude and some of his books are some of the best

books. I ever read among them. Dino living high in the business of dreams about Dean Martin. I love that book hellfire and earlier book about Jerry Lee Lewis, which I with a lot he He did a book called the unsung heroes of rock and roll, which was a real education for me, the Devil and Sonny Liston, which is a great book about Sonny Liston Tasha's, was he lived. Hard and uh and now he's gone. I think he was like sixty nine years old and Dino is whether it's give it or not, is one of the best books about show business. I've never read rest in peace there, Nick Tashaz, if that's possible, imagine it's going to be difficult wherever he goes so great in Nashville and Atlanta I've been watching KEN Burns is country, music and what

an amazing treat it is. I was in Nashville and all of that stuff was in Nashville, I the after I leave Nashville catching. I think, I'm up to the fourth episode right, two hours, a piece but then I was actually I was. Going through apart in Nashville, called, I think, music row or whatever, and I don't really know what it was. It didn't look like much and this morning way too late. I learned what it was and why it all of that, but nonetheless I've been watching it and things sort as it were sinking up. I do know a little bit. You guys listen to me bullshit my way through knowing things here all the time, but I know about rock. I know a bit about blues. I know a bit about jazz, I mean I can sort of track it. You know, historically, both it all three of those really, I don't know, a the jazz performance. I have a sense of the history. I had zero sense of the hist

country, music and I have a lot of the records I eat. I don't grow up with country music. It was around me. I grew up in New Mexico. I remember the state fair, the rodeo. You know that acts coming through Waylon, Willie, Rory Clark, Buck Owens, you know dot and who else do I remember when I was kid? Freddy Fender, Freddy Fender, wasted days and wasted nights come on I'll, be there be for the next team. Your drop, followed. I think he might have lived in Albuquerque. He seemed to be there all the time, but none that it wasn't in my household so much as it was around me, but I grown to love country. Music, just didn't know anything about it and the KEN Burns Doc is just Oh my fucking mind. You know the way he frames things. He gives you context, and I was listening to I meditated all day on. I think, Saturday, the day I got

Atlanta after being a natural, I listen to the Carter family all day long. I was mystified and I never knew I knew who Jimmy Rogers was, and I had to cover record, but I didn't know how important well. I didn't know that it was all about Jimmy Rogers in the Carter family, that is the Rosetta stone of modern when you go back to their influences and there's definitely some blues Nair and there's some other stuff, but that was sort of they were the temp according to burns and according to people he talked to. But to me that's just fucking, fascinating and now I got places, start and kind of dark out and I've got the records. I guess the whole point you talking. The you right now is to just give a plug to KEN Burns, this country, music. Documentary and also to tell you. I have a lot of records, I just want. You know I have a lot of records and many of them are country records Here's what I learned

Nashville. I had a big had a learning moment. I want to share it with you um and I always love going in natural, but something about myself there and I want it, and I want to share it with you and I think I'm going to stick to this. Ok, I'm old right, I'm fifty six years old and I know that's not old old, and I know that other people in their 50s get really defense. When you say that you're old and you're fifty something but I, I didn't assume I would live this one, okay and- and now here I am right, it's great but sometimes I don't always know what to do with with life. Like you know what makes it fun worthwhile exciting huh watt I mean historically for me it seems to be doing things that are great for me, but feel really good had to move away from those things right, change up a bit. Okay. I have my moments where I think in, and I think many of you can write this. We all have these moments from just like it.

It. You only live once man, it I'm doing it. And I decided I decided and it was in Nashville yeah, right on time, actually that it's not necessarily a bad philosophy. If you manage it like I, I decided that I could only apply it to one desicion a day max. If at all you have that every day doesn't have to have a funky. You only live once in it because then you're probably not going to live long. Zero is I was in Nashville and I said fuckit only live once and I ate it. Arnold's country right, that's Arnolds! It's a meat and three and I've been wanting to go there for years, but for some reason, they're closed weekends and they're. Only for lunch it was just never open, they always in closing I was there and I was dying for some chess pie, which you can only get down South Ann

too many places there have it either, but it's it's specific, and, and they have it in all right. So I actor. Arnold, I said fuck it I'm going to do I'm pretty healthy guy. I had a plate of fried catfish. Cauliflower casserole corn pudding, turn up. Greens, corn, and a slice of chess pie They actually have meringue on it. There are options. I had go meringue or no meringue lemon meringue. I don't care fuck. You only live once now: I'm glad that was where I allotted by one daily use of that philosophy, because, right after I eat it, Arnold I walked like across the parking lot. It's right there to carters vintage guitar okay and for some reason, Carter's was where the create event king. I think his wife, Ed King, being the original guitar player, one of the original guitar players of lynyrd- the guy who wrote Sweet Home Alabama, the guy signature pics. I use his wife,

was selling his guitar collection through cards, vintage guitars. And I found out later that Jason is Bull, had bought one, but that's the story, so I'm in there and I'm looking at guitars an I'm looking at Ed kings, mint one thousand nine hundred and fifty three les Paul Deluxe gold top. It was fucking stunning. Okay, I didn't need it, but I didn't need the Arnolds either. Ok, my point is I I said Fuckit A place because the difference between me saying it I only live once at Arnolds and not Carter's, was about thirty. Nine thousand nine hundred and eighty dollars alright. Thank God. I stuck to my allotment now, I'm not saying that have that kind of money to spend on a guitar but but fuck it man I could have. I could have you know. I don't know if I would have felt good about it. I was amazing. I don't know if I'd be sitting here with my fifty three gold top have

forty thousand dollars on it, because I said it that I would be like a I'm so glad I bought that. Guitar I'd probably be like what the fuck is wrong with me. Maybe I'm wrong now, but I think that was that was a smart use of my new Fuckit limit. Right. My you only live once women. I don't feel great about the chess pie, but again I think I've I feel better about it. Then how I would feel if I, with spent forty thousand dollars on guitar. So I'll be at the Masonic in San Francisco October 26th, that's this Saturday, so actually tour before I do my special come out to that I'll have one hundred posters and I prefer cash, but De Rick Baker. This is sort of an interesting thing for me, because I learned a lot. I and I met a genius. I met a guy that you do something in a way. No one else had done before him. Set standards

created ways of doing things in makeup that still stick now changed in industry, one like seven, I think, or maybe eight oscars and was it was an honor. Actually you know it's not a fantasy guy, but this is a skill set. It's uh and celebrated, or at least talked about job Entertainment, but you know he talks about the because of getting accepted even as a makeup for doing what he was doing. It was just it was unique. Station. Have you and I'm glad I had it. This was me and Rick Baker and his book, which is amazing. Baker. Metamorphosis is available. Wherever you get books, it's going to be out tomorrow, October 22nd, pre order. Now, it's huge these two huge books but stunning photographs and beautifully written n? This is me talking to the genius, the makeup artist genius is Rick Baker, so

You know it was funny, I'm looking at the book massive to massive book. We in metamorphosis. It's got your entire, the arc of your entire life in pictures. We're talking in the kitchen before it's odd to you to look at that thing. Well, it's weird. It's kind of like your life passing before your eyes. You know yeah when you had all the stuff I've the stuff. You know, I think we've people do that yeah. I was like my wife always on my case, because you know save old yogurt container, that's a little nuts well 'cause. I use a mix, pedialyte reuse, it it's like right recycling in right, but I mean it's like that looks like use that someday. You know, so I have boxes full of stuff that I've had for fifty the reason I never use again right by pictures, though too right and all that stuff. You know so that came in really handy like what is some of the the 'cause. There are pictures of some pretty early stuff that you worked on. When did when did that When did you start making masks? Well,

started doing make up. When I was ten, I decided that's what I wanted to do with my life. How do you? How does that now? Let's go: where did you grow up in Covina, which is like ease? Steve here he grew up in Covina you yeah. I was born in New York in Binghamton, but right my parents left I was not even one if in Covina your one yeah, and what do you see that that plants that seed well like so people of my generation is born in one thousand nine hundred and fifty ok. I grew up in front of a television right. Every week and I think, in every state, across the union you know, there's a monster movie on a horror show host on the weekend. That's right and I loved it.

You know who's eight, you know Paul Thomas Anderson's. Dad was one of those guys. No way who was the RD was he has Cleveland. I had no idea who it is: yeah, yeah, that's Paul, Thomas Anderson, Alliser cool, it's good information. Well, you know this the way you know the spin groovy. Now I realize there's a channel called me tv and I watch him go in there. There is still a guy yeah they're, still a guy, and I faithfully watch it. You know I've seen all the movies a million times. You know here, for you like the guy. I dislike the fact that it still exists and he knew who galardi what? Yes, he knew some of the local gay. They did different regions because those stations were like they were local. Yeah yeah, everyone had a local guy, but they had the same movie packages right shoulder package. You know so sure everybody across the United States he was like my age- was watching that stuff. You know and There was a magazine called famous monsters of filmland. My bro

is to get it. I was never the hard guy, but he got it's a landed with him who we need he's. He he have those magazines and he was sort of obsessed with it. I was too and it was. It was a film magazine. You know I mean it with you. It talked about all aspects, Monster movies, yeah, not just the directores in the actors, but Jack Pierce, who did the franks, monster, high makeup and all that and I went this- is Do I mean I used to say wanted to be a doctor right? My parents were very excited yeah and ten yeah. I wanted to be Doctor Frankenstein yeah right, but I mean, but that's interesting because somehow or another because, unlike it's not delusional in a sense like you know, acting when it kid wants to be an actor princess or something it's like. I want to be a movie star. You don't know how that happens, but I mean you look at something and because of that magazine like there's a job here like this guy, does that and I've seen a lot of these movies, so this it? employment opportunity there yeah

But more than anything I just wanted to do it. You know I mean I just like I just wanted to make stuff in I mean When I was ten, I didn't decide it was going to do for living. I would just like this is what I want to do so I started making myself up and I made horse mask when I was thirteen, I who was it actually, the very first one was Frankenstein from curse of Frankenstein Christopher Lee Hammer film version yeah, which I was not the big. Fan of that make up yeah, but I did it because I figured I could do it because it was kind of these two models. Yeah, it seems kind of sloppy. Yes, you know yeah and if you do it, I, did yeah, and it just never stopped after that. But when you read the magazines, did you have? Did you know certain processes, or did you just kind of wing it where you? How much of it was sort of your own invention? There was a little bit of information. There was the occasional article and it's tough, but fortunately my father was a very. If guy but growing up in Binghamton New York, was just you don't want to stop

do something you can make a living after what end up doing what he dropped high school to help his family. When you moved to California, he just had a bunch of crappy it's not really work at Sears for awhile until the truck for awhile you know and when, but he said he took like a correspondence course of how to draw you know and even though he natural ability and when I was in high school I was a sophomore in high school and my mom. Bank teller. He said I want to try to make a living as an artist and They were lean times. Yeah I mean it's hard make a living doing, things you know, and especially, if you establishing rice yeah. He would do these. He had no plan he's just sort of like I want to do it yeah, and I mean it was the happiest I've ever seen him. You know, and thank God I mean I I had the most amazing parents in the world. They were very positive. Thinking supported video end up making a living as an artist. Well I mean, I think,

the one year I remember them doing their tax returns and being really excited because they are combined. Income was six thousand dollars, and that was in a members, bank, tellers, salary and my dad sold. You know maybe five paintings that year. Well, where would you like? So your mom? Is a bank teller yeah in these eventually assistant to the manager of the band? So she was, she had a stable job yeah I need to what's your dad painting like what style, but he was a realist. You know and he would do portraits of people and and things, but mostly you know the things he sold the most with people when a departure, their dog. You know it's like, that's it like that's still with yeah yeah, I know a guy, you know Tony millionaire he's a cartoonist. You know and he's done several books but he'll He'll hire himself out to paint your dog, your house or come over and draw your shit yeah still a real thing. Well, it was hard, you know my dad would do these parking lot.

Art, Shoshanna harness mostly people with MAC. For may you know you share those ideas yeah he would he would. There was one that used to be on on La Cienega, A and Melrose right working on the corner. Covina. You know. Is it forty miles e of Hollywood yeah? I didn't have a car right now and I would go with him and then get out and walk to Hollywood Boulevard from there around you know, yeah. It was a place called project so that today, on special effects. The outer limits tv show and I knew where they were so I would go dig through their trash and stuff in it. You find anything I did yeah couple times I found you. I found one little block flat: molded cool really do you still have it? That's the question you know I had. Studio was in Glendale It was your own place, yeah, I'm retired now, but it was sixty thousand square foot building. So huge building,

about thirty thousand of it was storage, and I had molds from when I was a kid that I say for like fifty years when I find moved out about four five years ago. I mean it's like what do I do with all this stuff and. You know some of this movie history, no in right and when he got you know about all of it yeah, but I I just thought you know I can't I can't store all the stuff. You know your stuff in a noise like a summer, like I said, some of it for fifty years, yeah and eventually we filled up a fifth big roll off dumpsters with molds, and I saved still really like these are faces. Yeah faces, but you know we, you know the the process is, you know, take a cast the person's facial sculpting with clay yeah. When you make a mold of that yeah so like, for example, the Grinch, you know try Kerry Jim Carey's make up. I say that multi yeah, but some stuff I just threw out, and it was like what it is

say this for fifty years, because it throw it out because you made it yeah, you know, and it's like it means something I mean it's weird like I was when I was going to try to find some guy who used to be. I don't know in what capacity was a makeup artist, but he's got a bunch of molds that I don't know if the studio is going to throw him out or what, but he sent me David Bowies face Take it must have been a mold from man who fell to earth, maybe or the hunger I don't know, but he painted his Ziggy. So I have it downstairs. It's very eerie yeah I mean now that he's passed. I've got almost like this death mask, but he to have a business of it. I don't know where he got them all, but it it sounds like they throw that stuff away. Eventually they do, or you know, there's a lot of yeah. I mean a lot of me can get online. I don't have a David Bowie. I I have a bunch of life mask people and I've taken and churned out. Traded with people and stuff are really so. It's kind of a fun world of life, math, yeah yeah, you know, but it's cool. I mean because I mean faces were my business, you know your hand and you know it. You see

different things in different life mass. Can you have him yeah? He sent me a Robin Williams, one too, which is kind of like heavy man. He just sent you dead people yeah that developers that people everyone's going to be dead soon. Eventually, why I had my first life mistaken. I was you my dad. My dad helped me What you what experimenting? Well, I wanted make a I mean, I'm my very first masks I made there was a mod. Call the visible head a house like a clear plastic head. Remember you can see the eyes in the brains and everybody- and I, like I had from my doctor days, going to be a doctor answer, and I my first masks on that and but they didn't quite Fit. You know, I'm use that as the base yeah yeah and then so I needed a life mask in. Actually I had. I think it was my seventh grade science our project. I do a science, fair thing and Saigon

right now, I'm making a mask is kind of like science. You know so I definitely find yeah. So I did. You know how to make a mask science, fair project, and I thought ok is the time to do the life mask. There's actually pictures in the book of we cut a hole cardboard and put it only it this far. This far in my face in my dad after I may face and straws in my nose, which is every who you ever seen on tv when they talk about how many life cast they they had plaster on my face and straws makes it, but we don't do that now, or no I mean I did that when I was thirteen and I realize how that you're going to do this to somebody. You know yeah pulled out my eyelashes. My eyebrows did, you know, put we put gasoline on my face. Yeah it didn't work. He still pulled out a lot as in the straws in the nose just get in the I mean we work around the nostrils? It's a lot easier. That way in in big show business, no straws in the nose. No, but you know I'm swearing, you know. Maybe you know this because because you act and stuff- but I swear there's a book that accurately

actor is when you go on Jimmy Fallon or whatever you say that drugs in my nose and plaster on my face. I don't know anybody that does that, but if every year says it yeah, maybe that's what they sense. Do you not stick anything in the nose? No work around the nostrils, that's it even John heard in open man, I'm sure they didn't put straws in his nose. Well what well, I don't want to jump into asking trivia questions. So what's the argument, because you've done the makeup and like these major movies that have defined all of our lives right, I mean literally, your creations have haunted, so in light- and it's just it's very odd thing, because I'm not even a horror if I guy, but I've, seen most of the movies that you've done and it's just sort of mind. Blowing 'cause there's a couple of things that you've done, that I think stir me for long periods of my life good. So so what is the arc of? How do you begin

study? What you know you committed when you were ten, but what You know you want the regular life after that right. You the elementary school in high school and I did and then that was it, did you get into film? After that? You know, I guess, links I know I'm an only child. My mother had a bad heart and they said to her that she really shouldn't have children, and I mean that's, why always felt loved and wanted, because they, because they said to her, you could die or r? bad can happen to the kids and didn't realize until I got older and started to talk to people? Well, not everybody has great pair No, I'm not sure, and I had very loving and very supportive, positive thinking. Parents and you know they went said. I didn't want to be a doctor anymore. I wanted to make monsters. You know, instead of sending me to my room without my dinner. You know they say

you can do anything that you set your mind to life. You got one kid, you don't want hate near for the right yeah. I suppose so or make that kid as happy as possible and everybody's happy yeah, and you know the good thing was in you again, because the creativity was discouraged, my father's lifetime. He encouraged it in mind, so I benefited from that. What would think about that about only child because, like I know, Robin Williams was also an only child and he sort of was the fund of Soldier action figures. Soldiers, like you, know creating world. Do you think that some of that was we kind of loneliness yeah I mean I also was in Philly shy. As a kid I mean, I could not speak to an adult and I basically stayed in my bedroom is sure made stuff. My bedroom was my workshop. Yeah and that again was something that fascinated me about make up the first time I just even smeared grease on my face: yeah yeah, you put white he's been on my face and black around the eyes in the when the face in the mirror. Wasn't me anymore in

it was freeing? I could do things that I couldn't do as Little Ricky Baker yeah and It showed me the power of makeup as well. You know, yeah, you know that you it's a really strange thing to look at your eyes and just see a different face? Looking back at you yeah, I imagine some people the experience that every day for the wrong reasons. Who am I? What am I doing? I I notice, as I get older Mikey, it's weird that when there's a consistency to looking at yourself what you do every day, you don't really see it into one day, you're like when did that happen yeah, I know and look in the mirror, and is this old man looking back at me and you come from yeah. Is this a make up yeah? So how? What is the correct way? How do you get started in show business? Well, it's hard yeah. I again

Corinne, isn't it isn't like living here in the valley, international film people out there you know or not, and but by the sounds like by the time you you, you know, least what you went to high school right. I did and did you do? Theatre in high school died? I died, I did a drama class and I did make us replacing stuff we did. Did you did you do I spectacular that not so spectacular. I mean there wasn't the time or the money or anything I mean. I think the big thing I did. We did Camelot and I did made some beards and it made Merlin, and you know things like that. You know but yeah and then we did. There are cynical lay. So I got to do kind of a Frankenstein like ride for you, but you knew all these classic monsters. You knew I Karloff's Frankenstein and Cheney's Wolf Man and you like it right the love that stand that the classic chain

senior one with the sharp teeth with a top hat London, London after midnight last film one of my favorite makeup, Chaney's original I mean the phantom of the opera yeah London after midnight I mean I limit changes, stuff is brilliant. Wasn't there were some? It was in a book how he went about doing his there's a sessile HOLLAND who was an old makeup artist and I think he says well actually help Cheney. Cheney did his own make up, but I believe you know when you that type of make up, especially with party and so yeah, doesn't let Justin needs constant touch up in as an actor acting. He was constrained his performance right sure put it on Sso yeah. Well, I think that was that was the interesting thing about Cheney. My recollection as a kid was that he did his own make right that he you know- and there was I remember, there's some sort of photographic essay of him. Transforming himself yeah news pictures in with make up kid. Yeah yeah right right on he was grading, is great at making great faces. You know, and I hate this movie called of a thousand faces and have you ever heard of it? It's the story of him

James Lee and James Cagney played him right, but I mean not that it was a bad actor area. Physically. Just was so wrong wrong in that in the make ups were done again with the new modern techniques of rubber and stuff, and they don't compare to what changes did right, yeah, so so you're in high school and you just doing basic stuff, but you you you'd, be in the back of your head. You know about this other stuff yeah. Well, I mean I met when I when I turned thirteen. My because I was going to be teenagers, they said you know. Is there something we'd like to do something special for your birthday and I can you this is when Universal first opened up the tour? Oh wow and I said: can we go on a universal turing and in my head I was going to hop the ram and run to the make up department get a job. You know, and I am yeah and also I knew that there's a there's, a mask making company called done post studios that was in Burbank. It was near Universal ha who made these you classic monster, masks on for thirty five dollars, which was

western omelette. You know never one, but you could buy him yeah. They were seldom at Disneyland in different places where, like apes and stuff, no, it's like. It was Frankenstein Dracula, yeah yeah, but I knew that they were near universal. So when we got near universal, I asked my dad if we could stop in phone booth and look up DUMBO studios and again, I had him call because I was shy. He said you know my son Ricky makes masks and we're going to neighborhood is there anyway, we can come by and they said yeah come on by and they gave us a tour which was great an on the wall. There was a picture of this guy burns who I read about him: a monster magazines and he done some make up such a gorilla suit and a mummy, and it was a film editor and it had his phone number. So I wrote it down. And again being too shy to column. Eventually, I got ask my dad if he would call Bob who lives in Burbank. And they invited us over and

It became a friend in like a mentor, and he introduced me to makeup artists that cbs- the local CBS station. Who did the newscasters and stuff yeah didn't do the kind of stuff I wanted to you know, but he was really impressed by what I had done and he said I take you to the union and makeup union I was fifteen went to. A union, the business Rep at that time it was all nepotism you had to be born into the business right and I went over the box full of stuff photos, heads and kind of stuff. But I'm get a job right now He told me to give up that. I was never going to get in and he said you know basically had to be born into the business. You don't know anybody in the business. You don't have any friends in the business you're, never going with the nasty He was nasty, but I also think he was being realistic. You know 'cause, that's the way it was at the time when he said you,

to get in. You have to serve in your internship. You have to be twenty one years old. I was fifteen, that's good information yeah and he said, and the chips, there's only a few of them and they're going to go to a west or the brother of the West more should as uncle or whether it was a big name and yeah. I mean there's a lot it one time all the West Morris every studio head west where it was at the park and yet you know no kidding yeah. So I mean that was a little bit discouraging nothing to in your shack. It must hurt your feelings. You gotta, walk out your boxes, stuff yeah jail between my life yeah, but it was kind of like you know. Five q, I'm going to show you How- and it gave me that much more motivation- oh yeah, but the union fought me. Career really yeah, because I did Seventeen oscars, I know- and I got hate mail from union. I got oscars because They were saying you're, not a real makeup artist. You know it's like it. We talking lego real makeup artists.

Well. Let me cut it into. There was an open period, the Producers Association who said, there's no new blood in the industry, all this It isn't thing is working very well. It was like a lot of people that were very good at their job must be stifling innovation. It was yeah and they said we want to have this open period so that, if you have thirty days on a nine union film like except you as a union member that time I was working on King Kong, the Dino dollars as King Kong. You've done to Kong's. That great I know like I was King Khan and I killed King Kong and yeah. I actually cut the two together at one time you did for fun. Well, I actually did a I always planning coming together, but miraculously they both were on different tv channels and they line almost perfectly so I would Jackson's Kong and, and they don't know where it yeah, so I would flip between me getting shot and then me shooting that occurred, but any I had this. I said: okay, I'm at I called the MGM I'm working in the old makeup lab, which was

when they, when they were doing wizard of OZ. Things hum these days. The count in the business Rep came out and he goes well. What you're doing is a make up an agreement as a make up, because it is not make up like this to the lab he's been here since the third resume building a monkey yeah uh, huh yeah, which traditionally been done by makeup, artists, yeah, Charlie Gomorrah was a great ape. Actor a guy who's, a makeup artist. Who was the best seats ever? How do they define it? Well, as I said, I said what is make it then, if this is in in the US, it uses buying a product and putting on under someone's face and what okay I had. Black, make up around my eyes black, so these days account count. He says no in that, if an actor doing his own makeup, so you you in my days, we play in the ape? I played the in built it but you played the big ape yeah I mean it was all blue screen. You know, I mean the whole publicity was about forty foot, robot

which is in less than six seconds in the movie and your cogs in the rest of it yeah yeah, this. One is twenty, my brains out- and you know on on on this- was you know all blue screen for chemical blue screen compositing days where you need it so much light yeah. It was during the summer green eyes, the whole cruise in like shorts and tee shirts or or no shirts, and I have this made out of their high. Do it. You know six inches of foam rubber on to my God, and that was your construction yeah I had to do. It was combined. Dino, wanted this guy a tank I color multi to to work on it as well car. It was claimed that artists not what he did it like a fax and it was Carlos. I did build a robot in the a he. This robot can do the whole movie and they hey did you know like the robot? Well, it was good You know. It sounds much better than some poker wearing a monkey say the monkey suit yeah and they were you know they were keeping me under wraps and then one day you know I I would put a suit on. In the morning I had heart

scleral lenses I put in my eyes black yeah. Well, they just were full. I hard plastic lenses that I put in the morning take off at lunch, put him back in anyways, I'm sitting on the set totally dressed like an ape. John Gorman. The director of the film, came up to me and goes Time magazine's going to be doing an article on the movie. We don't want him to know that you, King Kong, so if that thing reporter asks, you don't tell him Like John I gotta figure out a suit. I mean what I'm going to tell him you know, and they did they stupidly did. Was they showed him like twenty minutes of footage? All of it me and then you go now we're going to take you and show you the big robot, which wasn't finished at time right. So it's in the mill that MGM and it's in pieces and being constructed here it is, you know when he goes well. I want to see the finished robot. You know they went

I guess I'm going to see the robot that did all this stuff. I just saw you know uh, so that guy, how stupid, where they right. So so that's where it came out that I played King Kong or otherwise, I probably never would nobody had no crazy so like so when Jessica Lange's in the hand, that's the robot, the mechanical hands were great and that was actually built by Glenn Robinson, who was an old if it's different than the robot, that's just to hand the hands in a guy named Eddie Sirkin was a guy who main main guy involved with that and those worked beautifully. I was involved with that was based on the sculpture of my hand, the suit hand and right, I directed the people that were sculpting to big hands, but I mean I was the only time I was ever even on the stage with Jesse, I think, was there's a scene where she hands it. Take your clothes off and shot over my shoulders, so they had me up, I'm not a big rostrum and they had to split out lens. They could focus on close info

I well, and so she was way down. There is a hand in the big hands, and- and so I was just in the back of my head, but for the rest of time, I'm looking at a hand that isn't there is Jessica in it and looking at an app that isn't there. So why of it's such like, such I was talking. My buddy about it like there People watch is that even he was a kid I mean you know it's an illusion, and you know it's not real, and it's not even about I. I it's the effectiveness of the illusion. That is what it's all about. It's, not it's not about real. Is a min away right yeah I mean I love Ray Harryhausen films, the stop motion, animation, stuff you. I knew that it was real, and also I mean fortunately, my dad was smart enough to know he knew stop motion was you know. I had a friend who you know

asked his mother, how they did the email from that twenty at twenty miles earth and she goes over to the shape Discworld. You know, and it was like you know, it's not you know is the armature property you should frame at a time. You know my dad knew about that and I did stop motion as a kid. You know yeah sure it now wait now. Let's do it not leave that story hang and now. Well, how did you did? You are yourself to get the time to count for con for the union, I did, but he wouldn't. Let account he said it doesn't, and I it was an open period was the exact time I was on King Kong, what yeah? So what you know they do I think what it was. Is you know they do like the rubber stuff. You know when they do because they didn't do it in there were very few people and the people who did do it. They called lab man, they do color makeup artist. They were lab men, they were dirty. You know they work with plaster and clay. We dress this snobbery to there was no

complete your world now I mean they totally accept me as a make up artist make up effects good of walking gradually he he I know of retired innocently. We like what fifty years in the game here more yeah, yeah, exactly yeah ventrally yeah, I mean Oscars, yeah innovation. That's crazy stubbornness of institutions yeah. Well, you know I mean I they actually were changed. Change when I go, I did get in the union and I got in a live at what would happen. I can calm. I got a script for movie called the goal from outer space and King Kong was my first like major picture and at that time was the most expensive picture made, and I was doing nonunion low budget films before that Christ only could do and I've kind of and it's going to be a step backwards. To do movie called a goal from outer space. He he he I I I I thought well turn in hi. Beard and they probably will say no right. I think I said it cost ten thousand dollars to do all these things and they said. Ok and I went

Hey. I need one other thing I said: I need you to post date checks so that F thirty days is now the window yeah yeah, and they did so. I got an ally. That's great and a bunch of people are really good. People got in during that period and and the union called us all thirty day wonders and did it change the face of the interfering, definitely change the face of the industry. People got in because they really wanted to be make up artist. You know I mean taking in a new direction. Yeah yeah and, like I say, the people are going you're. The worst thing ever happen. You know the business reps had worse than you ever have any sort of make up anyone whi I mean I've. I idolize makeup artists. All I ever wanted to be was a makeup artist I want to be the best. I can possibly be I'd eat sleep. Drinking live this stuff yeah, what's wrong with that, You know they had a problem with. It was so there. The problem was prosthetics an things that were outside the realm of something almost archaic. It seems with makeup yeah and I

part of it was too I mean I I had some ability, I was young and I think it was like threat thing to you know it's interesting that things get so that it's not about the creativity anymore. It's about status quo. Well, you know the union's main job during that time, especially was protecting, confident, I mean you it in Jersey, guys that you know you couldn't you have to hire it, everybody that was in you had to be hired before you could hire some. It was out of it in the people that just weren't very good they're, always on the bottom of the list, and it would say yeah. I guess it's still it's an interesting issue around in terms of hiring and stuff. That business in particular seems to carry a lot of people a lot of dead weight that just keep moving around because of nepotism or or you know or or relationships, and

keep out a lot of people that would bring fresh eyes to fresh town yeah. It's it's unfortunate. It's a lot better than it used to be in a chat room in your my mean mind you and anyone can do it at home, I'm in a way yeah, and also, though I mean it, I mean it's it's in it's a necessary evil. I mean you know the producers went, I mean as it is now. I always think about this. On the I I can't the hours that I normal film days at twelve hour day yeah, but when you add on about a three one, slash two hour make up in the morning right in our removal time right and set up time my normal day was an eighteen hour day. Sure I did like years of that right, I'm surprised, I'm still alive yeah. You seem really well so ok, so that was Kong. But how do you get started? What's the first movies? Who? How do you learn? Ok, my first film was: we called the Octo man yeah. I was full I'm student at a community college to basically just Vietnam in Covina.

It was in walnut in that area. My hobby was an expensive hobby to make masks and stuff. I found a place where I could buy a cord of rubber. It was like eight hundred and ninety eight or something I was getting like a quarter a week allowance when I, when I move my parents could have. Yeah. I would mow lawns, but I've had major allergies, so that was hard I need a job 'cause. I want more materials since I walked name a car, so I walked every fast food place, every market to try find a nobody wanted me. For some reason in Covina almost in Glendora Khloe Studios, whose whose place it made Gumby and dating a life, was located out there yeah my dad when he was a truck driver delivering plumbing supplies accidentally, it was not stored, aware that he was supposed to deliver it well done by accident, and he says

you know I remember this place in Covina. They did stop motion. You maybe can get a job there for Gumby yeah. So I I walked there within the box full of stuff. Again like a when I went to the union yeah incident I can they can make malls. I do stop motion, you ain't and for job, and they said start tomorrow, and this was summer between my junior and senior year of high school really. So I would walk to three one slash two miles to work, everyday and walk back. What were you doing over? There well I did. Most they call me an artist. You know I I I made I sculpted the some of the profits made, the malls castle, rubber and you're in high school. I was in high school yeah, but those are those are seminal. Those are like yeah, it was red nose, those yeah. I know it's really cool, they were doing yeah, that's right, God is everywhere Davey. I heard a voice forward and backwards every day. No, no, the guy, as Hell John Smith, to the voice, whose Otis the Drunk in in Andy Griffith show how really out and the guy

did pokey was actually the production manager manager at, but one of the later he was going to sneaky PETE Kleinow Peak line was his name, but he was a pedal steel, guitar player session pedal steel guitar played with everybody yeah amazing, He was like thirty years old and I was like seventeen. I thought you know this. Guy is cool and he's thirty years old, it's nice that you could be cool when you're thirty yeah. But again major like clay fights, crazy. You know each other. You know on three bodies, doing stop motion. You know and it's a frame at a time and it's forever. Yeah we would hit a set based, work could begin, but cloak is like a magnet for anybody that was interested. It was one of the few places it did stop motion, so people, coming in, and there was another guy a few years older than me, Doug Beswick, who worked there, who, like Red famous Austria, is he Harryhausen fan. We became fast friends. He knew other people that did this. Here all of a sudden there was this group that I would hang out with that. Were these guys, Stop motion and and special effects and go

maybe someday. We can work in a real movie right and. So many of us have oscars. Now it really same group of people, if still in touch with him, yeah and Dennis Muren, who one has more awesome than I do wow, but It was through this connection that actually handed down my first job, this Akemann job originally going to be stop motion guy named Jim. Jim Dad was going to do that It was too expensive here. Yes, the bill, the suit anywhere and they hired a couple of other people are gonna. Do suit right. Another film came along at the time called Flash, Gordon, which was a movie. Yes, I remember that I remember as a kid that it was the posters for it. Yeah like a soft porn right, yeah. Well, it started out was actually started as hard core porn. When these guys, because do you know the jobs, were there weren't many jobs fruit to make? rocket ships and an effect. I guess that's the way. That's the make up artist is their trick, their their their angle also was trying to draw a line between special effects and make up. Well that's the thing about. What I do is

is a gray area right, you know, and to me founded is the evolution of makeup right. That makes sense. You know it started out with no spidey in grease paint, and then they went to rubber stuff and people objected the rubber stuff- and you know I you know one of the things like when I did american werewolf with the transformation we made. These prop heads that actually physically changed right. They really objected to that. They go it's not on our person. It's not make up and go, but I couldn't do it in person I carried it through started out with makeup and ended up with this. I see it as the evolution of makeup. I do. Like the limitations, I mean I started doing puppets in animatronic stuff, because I make on a person's face. You can only build up so much the eyes or where they are. You know yeah. Those is, if you have a big nose like mine, you can make it smaller right, make it bigger right, make a puppet had a completely. I swear by law.

I like that and more than two sometimes yeah yeah. So I mean I like. I didn't like the limitations. I don't like reading of the human head yeah make ahead. You can do whatever we want, so you know I I just considered it you know in a I like making stuff- you know yeah, so our demand was. Did it turn out to be a stop action? No, he was a suit and it these guys were going to do, but they don't want. It went on to flesh Gordon. It was more out there, like you, know, yeah yeah yeah, so they handed it over to me. The first thing they was designed by somebody else, a fantasy artist, design, sockets man thing they give me drawing. They want me to do my cat, which is like a little model yeah. So I did him and then they said do you want the job? In again, I was a full time. Student was like at the end of my second year. Hello, community college, yeah, yeah and I said yeah I'll, do it and they had like six weeks, I think, and one thousand dollars. And my friend Doug best, oh, I met a cloak he's had a little workshop. This is,

I could do in my bedroom. You know we actually figured out a way to make this suit for a thousand dollars. That looked is the best thing in the movie. Movie was shot in ten days, a bronze in cash in caves, yeah everything was there yeah we lost the day, shooting because of a stupid accident that end that directory is actually tearing pages of the script. We don't need this. We don't need that wow and it was my real introduction to the film industry and In the first days filming It's be, I went there with Justin Bieber, Octopus, man suit in his car he's fifty seven chevy in it's like nobody. There, like looking around looking around and get the hell. Do we get something wrong so we had to go back down the hill to a pay phone, and this is before the cell phones. All the production office and they go. We push for a day and, like you didn't tell us, oh for God, it's like the movies called,

to me you know- and I threw my whole life- I go. You know the movie's called gremlins you, the movie is called you know, you're doing this thing and that seems to be the least important thing anybody's mind. You know yeah yeah, we got the, we got the guy. The thing but that was so. You've got a good foundation, then well insanity, yeah. I I saw that it wasn't what I thought it was going to be. You know, but still it in a way that the trouble they've they're, troubleshooting or the just that did consistency or what Amor all those things you know, and you know I thought you do movie called Oct man, I'm the guy, makes the ac man it's important, yeah and you know they again. Time was a long haired kid yeah, my friend as well as a long haired kid, the guy who was the dp called us, the girls know this was yeah,

you know, and it was just like. Oh come on man. You just want to do this stuff and make it cool, even though yeah right now, it's like you know we're here for this we're going to make it cool and fun. But the good thing to happen is my second movie, which is a film called schlock, was John Landis's. First film I was twenty. He was twenty one. I got the because First John worked at it as a male boy at Fox He knew John Chambers to the plan in the AIDS, a film called Trog, which is a Joan Crawford film about a missing link. That's really kind of sad thing to watch right into her career in this crappy monster movie. He was just so inspired by how bad frog was that he wanted to make a movie like that. So you did blocks Roblox, which was eight man. He went to John Chambers Chambers said one hundred thousand dollars single non movies, only cost fifteen thousand dollars. You know, then you went to downplay studios where I would go to buy rubber supplies because there weren't suppliers around. You know it was hard to find this stuff and I

It goes into my life at a business card and I don't know I said Rick Baker monster maker and I gave it to him and they nothing to do with John and they give him a price. Maybe there's a kid who comes in here anyway, so they gave my card and John came out again. I'm still pretty shy at this point and he lived in Westwood. He drove to Covina with his business partners and John are auric, but it's like you know where the fam I am, I still in California, and it was like you know, I've never driven this far, but it you know, and but he was like in my in my bedroom, which is my sacred space without head masks and things everywhere. Things like touching a nice like he's John's very Piper Inn loud in he was flipping out and I kind of flipping out in the other way 'cause. I was scared, you know, and but it turned out to be one of the best things ever happen to me: 'cause it schlock yeah. He had already written american werewolf. He told me the whole story. Yes, I want to do a transformation to me. It makes sense that you would sit in a chair like Lon, Chaney Junior and be perfectly still until you change

sure the pain I want to. I want do it in the he takes it's real. It takes place in an apartment, it's not gonna for film, like yeah, you know, and he goes I want to be able to move. And how would you do that when I go? I don't know no, but I sure would like to try. You know, because it's going to be my next movie. Two hundred and ten years later he finally got the money to make it well that's sort of the interesting thing about when I going through this stuff. Is that there's a lot of problem solving yeah that you, you have a director that has a vision like that. Specifically, it seems like that request of you or whether or not you could do the transformation and show the agony of it was in. It can weekly new interpretation of a the classic trope yeah, which is the Wolf man in horror movies. It may even seen it a million times right, so you got in. It seems like in this genre in horror and fantasy and science fiction. You do have like a you know, ten to fifteen archetypes, that sort of evolve

that you know the new challenges. How do we make this alien different than the last alien? How do we make this eight different than the last state? How is this wolf man going to be different? so that challenge you know, that's not just make up. I mean, there's sort of engineering, oh yeah! No, I mean you know it's something We have to invent things that have been done before and a film on in the schedule and budget. You know I mean the everything was I mean prior to. American werewolf, I would have to beg people. Let me do something Put a mustache on this guy had a scar, you know it's like what do you work with uh? What's his name Dick Smith? Yes, Dick was the greatest makeup artist ever I think, and help me out alot. He lived in New York and I managed to meet him when I was eighteen and how did you do that? I had a school project supposed to look up somebody in who's who in America I mean when I was in eighth grade or something, and I looked up Dick Smith and I looked up Porsche car off at all these people and they His address an eye?

it down no yeah paper. Again this to me would be like writing a letter to God. You know I mean I. I was a free new about him. All I knew about him in and I what was working his was the most powerful the it is everything needed to just look so much more real than anybody else. Why number the his wake up on little big man that opening up with Jack Crabb opening of Dustin Hoffman in that make up with that cigarette? That was like that- was mind blowing at the time when I was a kid oh yeah. Well, I got to watch him put that make up on 'cause. This is right when I wrote him anyways. I had this piece paper yeah address. When I graduate from high school, my parents were go back to Binghamton in New York, so I can be my grandmother who is ninety and dying, and I was like oh I said I don't want to New York. I want to make mask now, I'm out of school. He likes this summer and wait in New York. You know I got that magic piece of paper with it right now, go. Ok, it's now or never. So I wrote take a letter. It's in the book actually yeah my mom

Right me hoping to get a response, and I got the pictures of things that I made a lot of things were copies of that make us that he did. And I got this amazing response cities. This is I've, never seen anything like this from anybody, let alone, eighteen year old kid yeah. I can't wait to meet you. You know- and I thought you know it was right- the beginning this two week trip to New York. I thought it was going to be hello. Mister Smith, I think it's been half an hour right here, parents away drove me there and he gave me a yellow legal pad and going to tell you a lot of stuff. You should write it down, don't forget to like okay. You know, you told me anything I wanted to know you know he's about the process, yeah in formulas and all kinds of stuff, and I just couldn't wait, get back home didn't use. So he saw you as a he. He said as is the next guy in his mind, he's like this guy gets it and he needs. I need the repository for this information. Yes, yes, but he was, he was.

Away with everybody. He was very open because he coast in he was self taught here. He he talked Hollywood people and try to find out how to do things, and I was like you know it's trade secret. You know when I can tell you so He figured out his own way and it was a better way. What were specialties well. He he didn't hear the most realistic human old age and that kind of stuff, but also invented, is very inventive, invented materials and processes that nobody done before. So when I sit in that letter, I got this amazing reply. I'd go to the mailbox every day. You know in one day it looks like Rick Baker and it was a Dick Smith and it was spongy and it actually gave me a bad form casting of one of the makeups. I copied that that he did, but there was also a picture of little big man make up a test that he did he goes besides. Then you can't make me great we're going to be filming in the veterans Hospital in Westwood. If you want to come, we apply. That would be great yeah. So I got to watch without makeup on how long that take. I think it was like three

three hours yeah. She said there were destined yeah, you know I I again I was trying to stay away. Yeah you know in in in in just hang back and watch. You know you are in technique, yeah and watch how he put. The pieces are and what did did, which people, They would in Hollywood. Everyone is doing one big piece you know it would have been would have been. Basically you pulled over your head and cry on the eyes dick made. Lapping appliances and the reason being you glue, it cuz it's glued everywhere and if it's like, it's not glued. If you miss when it moves it as a word, so he would do separate pieces that overlapped and it was better in applying and move better and it was great to be able to watch him to make up little big man. And Dustin Hoffman. You know heat. I was really vivid memory of him because it was in on this. Veterans hospital. They had like a padded room with a little glass window and he went in his padded room yeah and screamed at the top of his lungs to try to make his voice sound. Raspy,

So I actually I actually look through the little window and looked up and there's this one hundred and twenty year old man, you know sitting there. You know just issues like crazy, it's wild man. I mean that's the thing that you know. I mean is something I find out when I read the book. You know like your bike yeah. Lane too much about the industry it's an amazing industry where you get to do in see and meet people and yeah. You know it. It's unbelievable. I mean there's like time traveling you like, when I did the Wolf man, you know in London, your You look around and in eighteen You know when you're filming that's what that was given. Eighty, oh one yeah yeah yeah. I think you for that right. I did yeah. That movie was really weird vibe. They didn't movie called the Wolf Man people really wanted to make a movie called the Wolf man? Is me and Dave else and Lou else who I did it with Benecio in Anthony Hopkins, but the direct

the producers like embarrassed, they were doing a monster movie they do for. I think that's what I said you know and we were like the low man on the totem pole, like the old children. You know in high I mean I had production manager would call me in the office and go when you already miss her What do you mean when I'm angry in his hair and with you a bunch hair here? What's a four and behind his desk is a big science is Wolfman yeah, so I got up and covered up the Wolf part and go we're making a movie called the Wolf man without the hair. We have a man and I'm going to make him a woman, and you need her for that. He could yes, it's like you don't come on it's crazy, but you worked on. You worked with Dick on movies. Later I will. I got to work in the exercise, yeah dick. I was again in twenty, I think, and what he were twenty. Or something earlier when using ways

He was a one man show he worked in his basement, yeah and the rubber stuff. You know yes use once and throw away so when we call appliances via prosthetics right so, like Linda's make up yeah, he did a number of design with everyday new yeah. You had to have a new piece every day, but he did. The number of tests they chose one, he prepared a let's, because when he's filming he couldn't be making these things takes like day of baking rubber right, for you can open it up and find out if it worked wow so I'd like fifty, some sets made the very first day that she is in her makeup up. Dick She comes out in like one of the grips or electrician or something goes she's got her mask on now and Billy Free Directory meant. It's too nasty do another one. You know You know it's like it's too do another one, because I we're filming. I work for months. You know and So his solution was called me and I came out in Lib, his house and worked in his basement on.

Exorcist. You know I mean yeah and how cool is that windows freaking was crazy. Well now I mean frequent was right. Actually I said you actually. Sometimes directors are right, and that was one of the cases you know, and I was outraged- I mean. How could you question Dick Smith? Yes, no at the greatest make up or dress for you right, you know. Well, I was I was wanted to punch freaking, You know yeah, and I was there when Dick was trying these different things out an when Peter Blatty infrequent to come in and make suggestions and stuff, and I wild yeah but you know I got you. I got to work on that film anywhere on the set, and you know it was. I was mostly in dicks basement during filming making making the pieces. I did get to go to Iraq and help him with the maximum seeds makeup, which that's the best makeup in the movie has an age make up his father Merrin the right respect, don't realize he was made up. You know right and those are the hardest can make us to pull off. You know: and yeah, and you did that with you. I remember- remember the autobiography of Miss Jane Pittman

the deal when my aid I mean I was ten, but I remember my mom watch it a member. It was just amazing revelation of the aging make yeah and I was I was like twenty again in my early twenties wearing that stuff from deck right yeah. In that way, did you get it on me for that? I did get an Extend Winston and I did it together and we both got him Stan Winston. He was an old timer right, yeah who's now passed. He was one of the big guys yeah yeah stand, and I were the two are considered the top you know at the time. But how would you see older than you know? It was a little bit older than me, but he died. Younger than I am now. I sixty nine. He think he was sixty six or something I said yeah I just found it interesting that there was in the books. Witcher is stunning books, two volumes all pictures, a lot of gray, you know, there's the story of you, there's a

word by by land. This is it invite Jack Peter Jackson, both yeah Peter Jackson, John Landis, Dick Smith? Does the outro the afterwards or whatever it was she wrote years ago? Is he still with Now he passed a number in a number of years ago. Yeah I mean I knew I was going to do this book and ask him to do it, but it was sort of interesting to me to have that realization that you know you're dealing. We deal with a lot of apes. You deal with a lot of aliens, you know, and it's that and then the human transformation is the work he did with Eddie Murphy in the nutty professor, in what nor did ninety professors to ninety professors and coming to America coming to America, where in any Tropic thunder you've made a black guy white in a white guy, black yeah and a black eye and asian and yeah yeah. That you know you get in trouble for now. I don't know if you would have you think you would. I know

people have. You know. This is true that people say like why, wouldn't you just hire an asian guy but but with the whole hook of those movies with Eddie. Was that he's going to play everything? I know I know it's. You know as the thing he's, an actor and actress become different characters, sure, and that's why you do make up. I think in the world that you're talking about it seems that people should be sort of encouraged to try to do these. Interesting and different things, I mean to see where the Murphy played all jewish guy, which you made a man too right yeah I mean that was sort of stunning yeah. It was fun too yeah, yeah yeah, and you know the thing that we my relationship with Eddie, and that film I mean Eddie. Didn't know how he's going to play it. You know how he, how he kinda did he really wanted it to be very stereotypical, jewish guy yeah right played for laughs when they did the make up. He said you know I I did a test I demanded to test this, make up because it's pretty Stream change and very difficult to do it and when I

Did he I said we shouldn't make it you're looking and self in the mirror, and he just said Rick. I just don't feel I'm doing your makeup justice. By doing this stereotype I mean look so real because I want to Cyber Frank, I'm in an improvised improvise, something if you're messing up my video camera out, filming him in the mirror looking himself and they improve it's scene about this old jewish guy who got attacked by some black yeah, but it was serious and I went oh my god, this guys really good after he had no. But then you end up doing if that yeah, because it's so much fun here you know and then make up, is very much based on my father in law. Ness true, wasn't jewish, but he I I liked his face, and he had kind of a big nose, and you know the land is said to me: I don't do it, I don't want to be you know yeah, you know and he's got a wide nose and I have to counteract that with you only way. I can do this kind of help build this out and it's like you know. I have to build it a certain

inside you know, but it was a really fun makeup today and I wanted to see what he did with it and all the fat suits. Oh yeah without your technology I mean people had done suits before, like that, I mean I tried to make it a little more organic. What I did with the gorilla suits as well is a lot of times. They make just hollow padding that you have a lot of room inside, but I try to make it more like muscles, and I have Bonnie are Chino left shoulder blades and things used. Was it waited? Then professor stuff was in the suit itself- is very light, but we actually had like water balloons would put in when it would show up. You know when it was needed and when it did, we take him out. I forgot to tell you the thing that, with that destroyed, my brain when I was younger was from live and let die. Did you do that? Sir hi warehouse too long? I I did started out. I was going to do ya, Pakodas Makeup in the he didn't like me, because I didn't agree with the thing he had some really ridiculous ideas: I've, uh it's been very bold

if I don't agree with something yeah. If it's my working right- and he eventually said you know you- don't anything about black people- I'm gonna black make up artist and I lost that part of that job. But I did do Jeffrey holders, there's ahead, where general how to get this headshot right. He looks at yeah. I think that head and not the exploding at Petco divided the inflated head of him yeah. So I got kinda got my revenge made of fat Albert looking thing, you know, but it's funny yeah. You know it's funny how he was right. I mean I didn't grow in a neighborhood that had black people here did know my mom 'cause. I was, latchkey kid no yeah. Sometimes I had to go to the bank with their in there was a a janitor who is a black eye who became a friend yeah. You know in in in kind of watch me you know, but I I I didn't, really know a lot, but I I don't know a lot about aliens or other things. Either I do the research and all right I figured out, you know so we

in a way he was right, but but also you know, I did Cecily Tyson a few years later in one in an easier out sure I did it in Murphy. You know you learn yeah, you know, you know it's, it's really what what set him off exactly. Do you remember he? Well, he wanted this this guys. First of all, I see I told him again, I'm a kid. You know when I'm doing this, but you met this he's miscast. I said you: can because he looks like the character that should be the makeup. The makeup it's character, called Mister Big who supposed to be this gangster, this big scary, black guy. I should be off. It was then that he, the makeup, is supposed to be the guy named KEN Anka. I think it was who is more like an african Dell, it came out. He was more city. Forty eight looking at you know kind of guy well. First, I didn't like that 'cause. I said that to him, but he goes. I want him to have red hair and I wanted the head shaped like a bullet and it was just naming off all this ridiculous stuff. They go

it's going to give this away as a make up instantly. If you, pointed head with red hair is supposed to look natural and stuff like that, and you know I mean I argued with them. I never been a yes man affecting my work, and I don't agree with that. I fight for it and end this case. I and my fight turned out to me getting a job. Yeah grace be moved on yeah. It's like it's sort of astounding, like american werewolf. That was another one that was life changing 'cause Griffin, Dunne Slow decomposition was what you made the heads for why he was applying to Saddam but yeah, but except for the last stage, which was a puppet yeah because he was supposed to be basically talking skeleton right right right, but that was so disturbing when he's just sitting there, the comedy of that and the horror of it what it was that was a unique mix who was in it still holds up really. Well, I don't watch it again. Yeah and then you know, Griffin was like you when I did the make up on first test yeah. You know he started as a bring your stuff on, he was just getting more and more

looking and like sinking down in the chair and it's like obviously upset, and it's like driven what's the matter, he goes. What's the matter? Look at me, you know yeah. It's no big deal, look at me go. Did you read the script yeah? Doesn't it say that your neck is torn out. Half your face is off yeah and you guys, but I didn't think it look like the single? I did so I called a plans, who's, a location yeah, because you got to talk to Griffin. You know good internet to be great. Well, I don't think was gonna happen, of course are going to look at him yeah, you know, but you know- and I think it's probably known for that part. More than anything you know yeah, and- and he was terrific to work with you know, but in the first thing was a bit of a shock and I bet yeah. So what did you do on the on the star wars? The first star wars, the Cantina scene Indiana where they go in the canteen, and there is so memorable yeah all the different aliens yeah. It originally was done in England by Stuart Freeborn, who did the Wilkie and it was.

This film but George- wanted to embellish on that scene and didn't wasn't really crazy about some of the stuff that was in there and again because of my friends, I work medical. Yeah or doing the visual effects action Yahoo, but they were Dennis Muren, KEN Rolston, we're doing the visual effects of the space ships and all that stuff and George they'd already finished. Nobody knew that star wars is going to be star wars right and George. I need some, I want to add some stuff. You know anybody can make a mask and it's like yeah. We do so they called me- and this was a val Jean over there by the airport in Van Nuys, and he showed me on a flatbed editor, this scene as it was, and I just wanted this is so cool. You know he goes. We don't have any money I don't have much time, but I really wanted like to add to this and it's like I'm there I'll do I characters yeah again and I have a bunch of masks I made for myself that week besides making specific things right so uh, artist who just had a bunch of weird aliens on yeah and things like the shelves or not even aliens like that one,

devil mask right, member that guy I kind of wondered why he was not well. You know why not! You know in your childhoods in there's a whole thing. There's like these double the insurer, like double scene. I just remember that stood out like that looks like just the devil, guy yeah and there's also a werewolf mask that I did. That was a a man. I did as a mass production, a limited mass production mass area. I thought these things are gonna, be just like in the background George focused on me right, but all the just in the very beginning, opening shot, but are mine the band is mine, was my design, and but it was shot different continent by different people months later, and you would never know the band is never really there when Harrison Ford's there, but because These are magic yeah you, you see the band and then you see Harrison Ford sitting there with Greedo and in the bands playing

think through their that, then that damn became like this sort of mod. It's like it was a true. What would you call? It was iconic yeah and the people made fun of it for years, United, Richard Pryor, a speciality where they made fun of the star was going to that's right. You did see even worked on that you had to make a Richard. Have no gene had no, yes, sex is sex work and no copies took you awhile to get it out. Thank you make a blank yeah yeah. That was fun. I remember that I I watch as special. How did you hear it would? What else did you do on that? Well, that week supply dealings for the Canton area yeah, but yeah that was you know. The whole thing was a comedy special. He started out of a close senior thought is gonna have to give up a lot to do the show. That's right, initial Allen back and you see that this guy you've got enough in yeah yeah. Now ed. You won an Oscar for now to assume that there must have been something emotionally deep about having the kind of like

yeah. I I'm just assuming that as a kid you have Dracula. India, Lugosi Insurers, Carla for my idols right. So what did it feel like to be in that world? It seemed very kind of human well when I am also in Ed fan, and when I heard that this was happening. You know I him. I met TIM when I did thriller. There was one Costco people Kelly Campbell. He did the Michael Jackson, video. That was all you yeah and I'm in it as well as I'm using it to not dancing but and I'm dancing zombie. Yet again my whole cruise, how you feel about the zombie apocalypse was, can have yeah, but I mean like these: are this resurrection of zombies over the last decade? Is that something? When you look at that? Could you dissipated. That would be the dominant no monster. No, no and

because it's always been around yeah and you know, The thing is now with walking dead, which I have to admit. I don't watch yeah I've tuned, a couple times to see some but they've pretty much explore every possibility you know but somehow I still enjoyed zombies so ET, but they had would take yeah, I mean so when I heard that you know I had met him previously when he was just out just out of cal arts at him in Rick Heinrichs. In this custom, lady on thriller said you have to meet, these tickets are talented yeah, they're doing a Frankenweenie or something that Disney. So I went and met him when we talked about a number of projects with never happened. When I heard about Edward I go, I have to do this, so I called up TIM, wrote him or something yeah I'll do this for free. If I have to which you pretty much wake me up on button. Then, when I read the script I mean also remarked: Landau fan yeah, oh great, and when I read the script I thought the script was brilliant yeah. I just I really have to do this movie and

really to me, go, see was so. It had to be real. I didn't want to be rubber face and I wanted to get the S subela, but not by a lot of rubber on yeah, and I think when I wasn't as. The experience of a make a person might put too much on him. Yeah. That happens a lot right. You know, and it's really Choosing where to put it in what to put in and what not, to put sure and I really wanted him to be real and and- and I think it worked out quite it was definitely moving in a lot of ways. I think it stems best movie and it's the least TIM Burton movie that he's made, but I think it's a really great moon. I think that might be yeah I'd. I'd have to really way that I just talked to defeat about. You know I. What was that Batman returns where he plays the penguin, and I I thought was kind of a genius, but it is the spectacle of TIM Burton is very specific wears and he got out of the way a little bit and you could see more of the heart of him in a way.

So is it great working with that land down and sort of kind of thing to note Bilib through that I mean it was, it was really cool because he Marlena was also the make up guy and on on mission impossible. You know he has to get the right guys and he's in the outer limits and a couple other limits, episode yeah, you know, so I was just like a geek. You know it's been a good family life. I try not to be you know, but you know you guys that have you know you got questions eventually sure and we did any work with Cronenberg too on that on the video drone, which is weird as movie. Oh, really, weird as something they started saying before you like, I used to try to convince people to. Let me do something american werewolf came out. They thought we could do anything in Cronenberg movie was one of the ones right after american world yeah. It was like how the hell going to do this, I mean, and that's the thing I mean makes me mad about contractors who are working in your house yeah. They can never give you an accurate bed time and money and stuff the

we have a contract. Now is really good, but but it's like the really good ones are always expensive yeah, but here we have to do something that nobody's done before yeah honest angel that they're giving me an and figure out a budget that I have to. Two yes and I do it, you know how come you can't put every sixteen inches of a two by four? How can you can figure that out? But there was some weird shyt invidia drama. I said David said I don't know how many do some of this. I don't think some of it. I can, by putting the tape in his stomach or whatever. That was easier than some of the other things, but I mean I but I said you I, if I can't do it I'll come up with an alternate version of the screen that pushed out yeah. We have stuff yeah, I mean you have to figure out machinery, yeah and all kinds of crazy. We, a team of guys, usually work when they were kids. You know when an american werewolf I mean now, there's hundreds of make up people good

work. Then do this kind of stuff right, American or if I hired fan to send me fan mail. I sent a kid out from Texas brought him out. The fan mail for another kid from Connecticut yeah, the average I mean the the average age of people working for me were eighteen on that movie. Okay, they had worked in a move before I was. They were total nerds for it yeah, and I just thirty and I I spent some time showing how to do stuff. We did stuff, but still I mean, however, many years later, this as eighteen eighty, they are doing it. It's still it's a pretty well yeah. I got to watch it again. I remember being profoundly disturbed by it and when you do something like the grange, we you've got to honor the sushi in vision I mean Must've been like a challenging 'cause like there there's an innocence to sue's even in is most sinister characters. And now you're going to have full detail of it. You gotta make these things real monsters in a way yeah and try to be true to it, and then you know they're very simple, drawings, yeah. I know and and there's things that you can't do you know the long neck and something in

I mean I almost in originally when I first got the call about that in visual. The Grinch should be, but my first questions go. What the hell are they, who yeah I mean when you look at those things in the book. The like is weird like one people or something right right and then go how we can do to Cindy Lou who you can hire a kid, can only work so many out right can do a three hour makeup yeah, so I mean that part of the challenge come concept. I still think those are scary. I mean it's hard to do a strain looking human and not have it be scary, sure yeah, but the Grinch I mean I had to fight to do the make up that I did they wanted there. Attitude wise, we're paying Jim Carrey ever made his face and wants his face, and you ain't in green and it's like no it's wrong. It's going to ruin the movie. You know how the Grinch stole Christmas, not how green, Jim Carrey still Christmas and I did something for- I talked about in the book- which I knew was a secret at the time, but I mean they were not.

Let me do this. I do. I did a make up on myself and Jeff to make on us too much yeah. I talked to A website at the time called any cool news. That was they review movies, but in and had a quite a following. Yeah and I knew the guy who ran it- was a fan and I said: listen, I'm wanna save universal from themselves. You know I said how the Grinch stole Christmas. I didn't make up testing myself this, what it should be. They want me to paint Jim Carrey Green. Is there some way that you can tell a little fear, been said that you saw that test and at Universal is making a big mistake. Yeah English, I'm all over! That yeah sure you know so they did in order. Thousands of responses, so at the very last minute universal change their mind, and let me do the thing yeah? He did the leak N, N, N, O n run a run and Brian who I sent a tape to as well. I got some help this guy daughters tape. I mean an initial value

in Brainerd elements. I sent it to let you know and and and you know I had to keep my message at that point. You know yeah now it's like I mean, I frankly think I'd say the movie. I think it was Jim Carrey yeah. Just give me all right. The movie ended, so you know holiday, classic shows of all time. It's great good job, But then you do these other ones. You do the ring. You do all these, like the horror movies. I gotta assume that young men in black. Just that's, got to be just a free for all where you just make up weirdos, you know it hard and that we didn't really know what men it was when we were making the movie share and- and they said which they say to me all the time we want to see aliens like we've, never seen before sure that was a lot easier before star wars and after we did the Cantina scene, every movie had a cantina scene. You know yeah space movie with a bunch of different stuff and my, which was why don't we make aliens that look like ones we've seen, but better an even say that it was like someone actually saw this, and did you know

I did drawing right right. You know, but this is what it really looks like yeah. I don't know we don't like that idea, but I happen to like retro alien. So I Every time I did a man black movie, I did three of 'em. I pitched that idea, though s many black men in black three, this time travel thing you go back to the sixties. Yeah made sense right right, so I finally got to make the a retro retro aliens and I'd like yeah, but I mean men in black didn't have moved out aliens on earth. There wasn't much in the script right? I just seems to me that, like you know, there's some of them were you just went to town we just sort of like well. I I just push the limit well, because I did because I couldn't I I didn't accept. You know in the the wheels introduction to aliens are took place in the regional script in a bar in his with time. The Johnson talking as a means, everywhere. The bartender truckies Nailea Scripps is the neck and light comes out and I'm Sorry, but this is a missed opportunity. This should be the coolest fucking thing you've ever seen and we but in cocoon it wasn't that exciting. You know, but then, when you shot his head off

no, he didn't know we had his face open up and had a little green man. Oh yeah. We came up with that idea and we love that idea. So we actually made ahead for this. Bartender, we did the whole thing this coming in one day and they go. Oh, I gotta tell you are not going to do that anymore, and I thought you love this do you know we do love it. We love it. We're gonna to put it in a different character within dialogue, and then your guys Dialogue and his mouth is. His biggest mouth is like in eighth of an inch. You know yeah, so we had to make a big version of it. Did the talking so ridiculously rude girl, Goldberg kind of thing where it's just such a comedy play. You know, but I mean I mean, I'm sure a lot of producers and directors hate me, because If- I don't agree with him. I fight or suggest things you know, and it's just weird because it you know, but it sounds like a lot of times. Eventually you win because, like you're, creating something spectacular that they couldn't envision at all, so they're naturally nervous, but it seems like

sometimes they're like holy and times right now I don't know but like you know you're giving them something they couldn't visualize and takes it to a whole other level, and I would imagine most of the time the fight is is right. Well, I I think it is you know and and they they actually come around and I think a lot of is like okay, he's not gonna shut up and do it. You know yeah, you know, but but yeah, I think I've, because the ideas I've come up with and and things like that, I've made some of the movies I work and better, and what about that? Have we leveled off on apes? I mean I, you know what I mean it was my I'll. Pulling fooling people with make up when I was a kid and a little kid you can stand in full anybody. We go. Isn't that Cute Ricky looks like Frankenstein they're supposed to run in fear, so I went through a blood and guts phase. Yeah we made one committed one of myself, my mom freaked out yeah. I made of all the kids in the neighborhood here. Wasn't allowed, play with them anymore. You know different things now, as a parent, I would have killed if there is anything either but

I wanted to find something else that I could do and I thought NA is like a real life thing and it's kind of monstrous and so I started doing, research on a suit had been done before in real real guerrillas and yeah found out of it. Just became fascinated with the animal. I mean Hollywood did them and just this year and grows very pacifistic in in quite amazing. You know, but I thought this is something you can do so it was a quest from the time. I was a kid to make a real. Realistic. A suit made a number of them. When I, Finally guerillas gorillas in the mist uh. I thought. Ok, I'm done. I did it and a gorilla Inter cut with a real animal- and nobody knows it's the whole movies real gorilla, fake roller overall fake rolla- I said you can't do that. You can't compare mine to a real one and they did and it worked right. So I thought. Ok can check that off. I made the ultimate gorilla seen it then I got it I did Mighty Joe young because it was like the other big, a movie they out as a kid,

see the king Kong twice and Mighty Joe Young and planted it yet. So I had to do any kind of updated that too. What I mean- I I I I I wanted and again when when I I talked to him about it really wanted to do the film, but I said I don't want to do TIM Burton Apes. You know I don't want to do crazy, stylized face with dark circles around the eyes, no swirly swirly. On it. I want to do realistic games. If you don't want that, then I don't want to do it because now I do want real, Okay, I think you really read. Imagine the whole that and they stuck with that with the other newer, eight movies, to write what which they're all done CG but but I think they're done really well, I mean that's it that well, that's interesting question: do you feel, like you know, on some level the craft that you spend your life doing is being phased out? You know If you would ask me that ten years ago I would have said yes for sure I mean. Definitely it took away the Anima Tronics part of our work in a lot of the effects part of it. You know clay yeah

yeah. We still do some clay stove again, but it became the go to solution for everything you know when I think there's a lot of things. We could do better in real world ten years ago, yeah, but and it did look like he's dying out right, but now I think, there's more there's more makeups being done than ever and I think some of the best makeup that have ever been done or b now so make sure, there's so many markets now in a lot of it's being done for tv for streaming and stuff. So is it done number of make ups, which is a mind boggling now I mean never, would imagine that this may make us be going on, and this many good make so you're saying that the the Cg I thing is still limited to big budget. You know specific type of movie making. Well I I mean people also have just decided okay, this should be a make up. To I mean I don't know what to do. Okay, I see yeah yeah. I mean, I think one of the reasons because for me really changed when I do american werewolf. What the

material that allows you to do things that never been done before, and I said I was given adequate time and money yeah I've never gotten it before. When John ask me when I was twenty, but it would take. I was going say I said Take a lot more time, a lot more money than what I'm getting lunch lock right and you know it I, when I did, elements too, I mean mind you: we made hundreds of gremlins and Mogwai, yeah, but I hit a year on that film. I was on the phone for a year. I love grandma. As opposed to two weeks you and something else, so you can de. You better work, and you have a lot of gremlins that you have, I have a couple yeah but my whole point of this was the for me. I needed the answer when it directory isn't really ready to give an answer. If I'm starting a year before the movies being made the directors Julie on another movie. I need to know what this is going to know what side you're going to see eating others and they don't to make the decision eventually give you some answer when it comes to the day

You know. I changed my mind really want something else. You know it's like, but it happens all the time, and after you put a year into it, that's a little shitty. Well, you know, I mean I think I've made more things that aren't on film the neck, I'm sure well now, but there's a lot for men in black one of the big challenges and that there there was the defensive driver makeup meal which, with the knowledge which is the human skin yeah with the inside sucked out that that's bugs yeah right hi and I had a real problem with the logic of this box. With the twelve foot tall yeah, your head and neck with this again, like Barry Sonnenfeld, would call I called the director yeah how's. It hopefully bug fitness six women. You know your, play folds up and he got well yeah. It doesn't work 'cause. His forearm is not going to it's going to be four feet. Long right it doesn't matter. I kept calling I'm trying to come up with logic for things here in the really wasn't didn't matter, but it was a design nightmare in that which do Spielberg.

Who wanted to be involved? We had very sign in very weird Walter parks. They all wanted to look at this. So we do design side send off copies at the time all in different places they go. You know I like the head on a four and I like this body. C six had and the feet on three. You know this is you know whatever once you do a? like that, and I would say because it would look stupid. That's. Why did he go Let me rephrase it do reflecting the inactive right, but the bug that big at your, which was one of the biggest things we made The design I chose, I said, doesn't look bug like enough. It doesn't look to me like a bug. Yeah, it's more like a reptile and Steven said to space bugs with this. Would look like earth bucks. He said earth people who are going to learn the ones that are going to be seeing this movie yes, says, bug, bug, bug, bug, bug right, you know, as put an exo skeleton on at least you know, anyways cut too we're on this at MGM with said giant, tenneco bug all set up will puppeteers ready to go, and

record comes up and goes you know we decided this doesn't look enough like a bug. So we're just going to do it all CG later Hi guys in this was where we put most of our effort and work. You know I've done. Reside in a movie called isobar that we worked on for ten months. That was cancelled and we do it the monsters well that got put in storage somewhere. I have no idea where they are now, but a lot of times. You'll do things. You know something that is the main thing is being incidental thing and something that's like a incident thing becomes the main thing. Do you have pictures at least yeah yeah, so my question to enclosing here is, like Sir, have a fascination with that Todd, Browning's freaks and you have that busted Zippy in the book I like, which is less. Let's see actually usually all yes with the act, and and it's a silicon and it looks like real what compelled you to I left. Let's see, I love freaks too. Yeah yeah yeah, Google Gobbolino yeah, I we felt like one of them yeah yeah yeah and I loved this. Let's see, I mean

I do love protest things. You know I don't like Gore hey, I mean people is I'm squeamish. I pass out when I see blood real. Yeah even fake, but not like. Now. If I do it it's okay, I mean, if it's well done in a movie, it affects. So that's interesting. What you just said, though, that there's something about being a shy. Maybe you know only child. The awkwardness that is uh inherent in that 'cause. I've thought about this myself What makes me gravitate towards in find sort of empathy an be moved by human anomalies is that they function in the world proudly as as people completely unusual and there's something inspiring about them. Well again, I mean I say I love monster movies and stuff, but it's like Frankenstein Hunchback Notre Dame that Charles Laughton Quasimodo. Oh my god, cry when I watch it sure yeah, brilliant performance and brilliant makeup, and but you know kid and specially in odd kid. You know you know you really

you know 'cause you're, like them, you know- and I think that's part of what they attracted feels so different and weird. But it's funny. I mean now my wife, Sylvia is responsible. A lot for me being uh. I had no social skills and I didn't like going anywhere. I still like anywhere. You know: She's brought a lot of things out in me that they didn't exist before you know. That's nice yeah yeah, so you don't feel like a monster and he not so much. That is great talking here. It was nice talking to you mark thanks for having me all right. Well, that was cool hi. I thought that was very interesting. The book Rick Baker Metamorphosis is available wherever you get books tomorrow October. Twenty second, you can pre order it now, if you want it's too bye game, seven hundred and thirty six pages long, it has more than sixty one hundred images from works career and forget about the adult swim, podcast, Rick and Morty Robot Chicken.

Aqua, teen, hunger force too many cooks, TIM and Eric or any of the adult swim shows than the adult swim. Podcast is free, go behind the scenes with the creators cast and crew of the adult swim shows you love with and subscribe to the adult swim podcast for free wherever you get your podcasts This is this: I'm going to play a guitar that right now that did not cost one thousand dollars and it sounds pretty fucking good.